More “compassion” from GOP candidates

First it was Sen. Sam Brownback’s lovely comments about how survivors of rape shouldn’t have access to abortion.
Now it comes out through an interview with Mormon feminist Judith Dushku that Mitt Romney–who can’t seem to stop changing his mind about abortiononce bullied a woman who was on her sixth pregnancy to carry to full term despite the fact that her life was in danger.
The whole interview really is a must read, but this part is just classic:

So then Mitt came in to the hospital. X thought Mitt had come to be comforting because that’s what bishops do. They have a pastoral role. But she said that instead he was critical.
He said – What do you think you’re doing?
She said – Well, we have to abort the baby because I have these blood clots.
And he said something to the effect of – Well, why do you get off easy when other women have their babies?

Well that’s just charming.
Thanks to Kombiz for the link.

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38 Comments

  1. Jordan
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Just like I said in my other comment below, when will these anti-choice retards ever learn that in order to “save the babies”, you have to make sure the mothers’ lives are safe first. But I guess in this woman’s case there was nothing that could save her unborn child’s life. But these anti-choice freaks have it all backwards–they think that the fetus’ life is more important than the mother’s life. If the mother dies, than who is going to take care of her other living children? Mitt and his pals never think about THAT, do they? A woman can always have another baby if something bad happens that causes her to have to abort. But if a mother dies, then nothing or no one can ever replace her….especially to her children and her family.

  2. Heather
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Yup, classic Mormon clergy rhetoric. My grandma was bullied/guilted into staying in an abusive marriage by one. They don’t give a crap about women, it’s all about patriarchal control.

  3. ElleMariachi
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    What an awesome thing to hear as you’re about to go through something that probably worries/scares you to death.
    “You should just pop out the kid and let the blood clots kill you. It’s not like your other five children NEED you or anything!”

  4. Marissa
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    “But these anti-choice freaks have it all backwards–they think that the fetus’ life is more important than the mother’s life. If the mother dies, than who is going to take care of her other living children? Mitt and his pals never think about THAT, do they? ”
    If they gave a flying f about the woman and how the child would be raised, maybe they’d support wellfare, childcare programs so mom can work, and a number of other social services. Personally I find it all about partiarchal control and some weird messed up worship of infantile “purity” deal (as opposed to the “slutty” mom who if she didn’t want it, she shouldn’t have gotten pregnant.)

  5. Posted June 14, 2007 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Talk about an example of considering a woman to be simply a vessel for the carrying of the fetus. The only thing Romney and those like him care about is the fetus being alive at the end of the ‘process.’ Even if the vessel dies in service of this end, the end has still been achieved.
    Disgusting!
    This story also brings up the link between religion and sexism, a link that isn’t discussed often enough. Many denominations seem to put their own particular twist on the matter, including of course the Mormons.
    The URL is a link to an article by Sam Harris that nails this issue — religion and sexism.

  6. Jordan
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Ian, I think you forgot to put the URL link in your post, but that reminds me of a comment I wanted to make about religion and sexism. I think a lot of Christians have either forgotten or just have no idea of what Jesus thought of women. Jesus had a lot of respect for women, and he as always kind to them. He never judged them, and in fact his best friend and closest follower was a woman–Mary Magdalene. She was also the first person Jesus showed himself to after his resurrection. So if these anti-choicers think they are being “good, true Christians” by treating women like property and second-class citizens, then they need to take a good long look at how Jesus treated women!

  7. Ian in OH
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    The link seems to be working. Clicking on my username — Ian in OH — in my previous post should take you to the article.

  8. Marissa
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

    I am not christian, and it is rare for me to quote what someone has said in a sermon, but a christian liberal freind once told me this quote from her pastor. It was something very close to: “If you are using your religion to justify your hatred for a certain group of people, there is something very wrong with your idea of religion.” I have to say this surprised me to hear that this was said in a sermon of all places, but I think it is very relevant to a number of situations.

  9. Feliza Navidad
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    Marissa and Jordan: you guys are right on.
    It makes me sick how religion (particularly Christianity) seems to have been co-opted by Right-Wingers to justify what I see as basically immoral actions.
    For example, I know a woman whose religion supposedly tells her that she (and every other married woman) needs to be submissive to their husband. I’ve known another woman who said that her religion taught her that women shouldn’t get a college education beyond the undergrad level because God wants us all to be subject to our husbands decisions and (presumably) women with masters-level degrees aren’t likely to accept that.
    In my opinion, this is def. a case of using one’s religion to justify mistreatment of others. This is the kind of crap that makes me kind of reluctant to identify as Christian. It’s not the religion itself that bugs me at all–just that I don’t want to be in any of the same clubs as crazy asshats like that.

  10. Jordan
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

    If Jesus had come to visit this sick pregnant woman in the hospital instead of Romney, he wouldn’t have scolded her for having to abort her baby in order to save her own life. Instead, he would have comforted her and given her support for the difficult decision she was forced to make. Why can’t more of these “Christians” like Romney understand this and be more like this?

  11. Posted June 14, 2007 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    I’ve always wanted to punch Mitt Romney in his stupid, smug face. Now I have a really, really good reason.

  12. UltraMagnus
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    If Jesus had come to visit this sick pregnant woman in the hospital instead of Romney, he wouldn’t have scolded her for having to abort her baby in order to save her own life.
    Jordan, while I totally agree with you in one regard I just want to point out that if it was Jesus then he’d also be able to save both the mother and child through some miracle:)
    If my life were in danger and Jesus appear to me only to pat me on the shoulder and say “It’s going to be okay” I’d be like, “Hell yeah it’s gonna be okay, YOU’RE here! Get ta healin’!!” :) (only slightly joking).
    I’ve always been weary of Mormons, though the few that I have known have been nice to me. I do know their “mythology” about Native Americans and their feelings about black people and I have a slightly funny/possibly offensive tale of what I did when two young Mormon men came knocking on my apartment door to convert me but this tale of Mitt Romney just sickens me.
    All the reasons have already been stated but I just want to also point out to the people who were wondering what Mitt and other men like him thought of the mother’s dying and leaving their children motherless: If these men think women are expendable then it’s very likely they also believe women are replaceable. The husband, free because his marriage ended in death and not divorce, is probably okayed to take on another wife. If there’s anyone who knows more about Mormon beliefs feel free to correct me. I understand that they believe marriage is eternal but know very little about their remarrying policy due to death.

  13. Kyra
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    I have a slightly funny/possibly offensive tale of what I did when two young Mormon men came knocking on my apartment door to convert me
    I wanna hear it!

  14. UltraMagnus
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    Ha ha. Okay Kyra, it’s a short one.
    So I was chillin’ in my apartment after classes one day and there’s a knock on my door. Now, I’ve got the TV on so they KNOW someone’s there so I check the peep hole and much to my dismay there are two young men dressed in the traditional white shirt/black tie outfits and I know immediately that they’re from the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter-Day saints.
    Now, having poked my eye into the key hole they know that someone’s behind the door so I hear a faint “hello?” and not wanting to be an asshole I open the door. I figure a few minutes and they’ll be gone anyway.
    One of them I can see is Latino and I will admit that that surprised me. The other is white, they both don’t look any older than 20. They give me a friendly greeting and begin to talk to me about my immortal soul and I cut them off right there. The conversation went something like this and I’m pretty much paraphrasing the whole conversation:
    White Kid: We’d just like to talk to you about Jesus and—
    Me: You realize I’m black right?
    They both look at each other, confused.
    White Kid: I’m sorry?
    Me: I know how your religion feels about black and dark skinned people. And seeing as I am black I have no intention of being apart of a faith that regards me as inferior to whites.
    Latino Kid: The Mormon church doesn’t follow that anymore. In fact we have several black members.
    Me: And that’s just sad.
    White Kid: African-Americans have come a long way in the church and we embrace them.
    Me: Really? Do you have a lot of black Mormons?
    White Kid: Not a lot but it’s growing.
    Me: So, if I became a Mormon I’d have to marry another Mormon, right?
    White Kid: It’s preferred yes. We believe that marriage is eternal–
    Me: I heard that it can be hard to find another black Mormon to marry, since there aren’t that many. How would you feel if I married a white man?
    At this point they both blush and look away.
    Me: I’ve dated white guys before, it’s not a problem.
    White Kid: It’s not preferred–
    Me: So you don’t believe in interracial marriage?
    White Kid: *Stammers* I’m sure the church community would find an African-American man for you to marry.
    Me: Uh-huh.
    Latino Kid: Would you like a Book of Mormon?
    Me: No.
    **********
    Luckily for them they left before I asked them about their special underwear.
    I had a friend in undergrad who’s dad was a black Mormon. We were in a friends dorm room and she was talking about how her dad didn’t feel like he was apart of the church and neither did she and this was before I learned to respect other people so my response to her was “what the fuck did you expect?” and proceeded to inform her of the Mormon’s beliefs.
    Mind you their leaders did speak out against slavery but still, their ideas are whacky and out there. And being from Missouri myself I can attest to the fact that it is no place to put a holy land.
    But later on during my last two years I met two professors who were married and they were really great, one loved my writing and we’d hang out in his office and talk about photography, which both of us were into and we’d share pictures. I can’t remember how but I found out he and his wife were Mormon and that just blew my mind (because they’d been so nice to me). It was probably the beginning of me stopping myself from generalizing everyone.
    But I still hold reservations on the Mormon church overall, because it’s still apart of their doctrine.

  15. UltraMagnus
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

    Oops,
    and proceeded to inform her of the Mormon’s beliefs.
    Should read: and proceeded to inform her of the Mormon’s beliefs on dark skinned peoples, which she hadn’t known.
    Sorry.

  16. Posted June 14, 2007 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    confused by the comments. It wasn’t his religion. Utah or Salt Lake City or wherever told him it was okay to be pro-choice. Who knew Mormons were progressive? This was just Mitt being Mitt. Which is to say, he doesn’t actually hold any sincere beliefs, religious or otherwise.
    As an aside, love Judy Dushku. I met her where I used to get my manicures, so we used to shoot the sh*t. She totally rocks. And she spawned Eliza Dushku, to boot.

  17. Posted June 14, 2007 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Thatis a great story, UltraMagnus.

  18. Mina
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    “But if a mother dies, then nothing or no one can ever replace her….especially to her children and her family.”
    Isn’t replacing the mother why some sexists out there with limited funds save up for their next weddings instead of spending the money on medical care when their wives are in labor? I heard that’s part of the reason so many Afghanis die in childbirth.

  19. annejumps
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    Isn’t replacing the mother why some sexists out there with limited funds save up for their next weddings instead of spending the money on medical care when their wives are in labor?
    A part of my soul just died reading that….

  20. ShifterCat
    Posted June 14, 2007 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

    UltraMagnus, a friend of mine had had some Mormons visit, and one of them was black. The subject of dark skin being the “curse of God” came up. She asked the black guy how he felt about this part of the religion, and he answered enthusiastically, “Oh, but since I joined the Church of LDS, my skin has become noticeably lighter!”
    She was incredibly creeped out.

  21. Posted June 15, 2007 at 1:02 am | Permalink

    Mind you their leaders did speak out against slavery but still, their ideas are whacky and out there. And being from Missouri myself I can attest to the fact that it is no place to put a holy land.
    It’s true that they eventually changed their minds about slavery (and suddenly proclaimed the new position to have been their “eternal law” or whatever they call it. But what do you expect from a religion that was started by a convicted con man who made his money using a “seer stone” to find alleged buried treasure on farmers’ property.

  22. Posted June 15, 2007 at 1:05 am | Permalink

    Also, what the hell kind of name is Mitt? What, did his parents name him after the oven mitt character from those Arby’s commercials or something?

  23. UltraMagnus
    Posted June 15, 2007 at 2:26 pm | Permalink


    UltraMagnus, a friend of mine had had some Mormons visit, and one of them was black. The subject of dark skin being the “curse of God” came up. She asked the black guy how he felt about this part of the religion, and he answered enthusiastically, “Oh, but since I joined the Church of LDS, my skin has become noticeably lighter!”
    She was incredibly creeped out.

    So am I, Shiftercat, so am I.

  24. Posted June 15, 2007 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Yeah, as a Native American, all I can say to the mormons who think I’m inferior or cursed, is suck it. I’ve had several nasty encounters with people that think Native Americans are inferior & I usually just have to remind them that we (Cheyenne) were unified when their people were fighting each other during the Middle Ages.

  25. Posted June 15, 2007 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    After Elise woke in me the idea that there was a tiny chance Mitt was short for Mitten, which would have made my day, I looked him up on Wikipedia. (I know, shush.)
    According to the article, his ACTUAL name is Willard Mitt Romney. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW is, why we haven’t been hearing about this with so much talk over Hillary Clinton not using her real/maiden/legal name. Yeah, I know she’s publically gone back and forth a couple of times, but Romney essentially goes by an alias.

  26. Fenriswolf
    Posted June 15, 2007 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

    “But what do you expect from a religion that was started by a convicted con man who made his money using a “seer stone” to find alleged buried treasure on farmers’ property.”
    I’m sorry, that’s pretty offensive. Because Mormonism makes SO much less sense than any other version of Christianity? As far as I’m concerned they’re all bloody ridiculous but I know some great people who are Christian – and Mormon (even though they don’t like to say they’re Christian lol)

  27. Mina
    Posted June 15, 2007 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    “According to the article, his ACTUAL name is Willard Mitt Romney.”
    Does this remind anyone else of H. Ross Perot, or of Eleanor Roosevelt whose full name was Anna Eleanor Roosevelt*?
    “WHAT I WANT TO KNOW is, why we haven’t been hearing about this with so much talk over Hillary Clinton not using her real/maiden/legal name. Yeah, I know she’s publically gone back and forth a couple of times, but Romney essentially goes by an alias.”
    I got the impression that middle names are less controversial than maiden names. :/
    * That was her full name her whole life. I guess whether she kept her maiden name or took her husband’s was a moot point since she married a distant cousin who shared her surname:
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/firstladies/ar32.html

  28. Posted June 15, 2007 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry, that’s pretty offensive. Because Mormonism makes SO much less sense than any other version of Christianity? As far as I’m concerned they’re all bloody ridiculous but I know some great people who are Christian – and Mormon (even though they don’t like to say they’re Christian lol)
    But it’s true.
    Joseph Smith Jr. said that the Book of Mormon came from golden plates that an angel showed him that were buried near his home. His testimony is available here: http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=69f9307e3584b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
    Before he was involved in the LDS movement, Smith was involved in treasure hunting & what would now be called huckstering.
    Smith said that he returned the plate to the angel.
    As a skeptic, I just find the story to be a bit absurd, and based on Smith’s past, I have a hard time believing him. If Smith were alive today, I’m sure that his claims would be met with the same level of skepticism as oil stains that look like Jesus, weeping statues of the Virgin Mary, & drinking statues of Ganesha.

  29. Posted June 15, 2007 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    But how are golden plates any less believable than the parting of the Red Sea? I think that’s what Fenriswolf was getting at . . .

  30. Posted June 15, 2007 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

    I don’t necessarily accept the parting of the Red Sea. But back then, we knew so little about the natural world, I think that what may have happened could have been a natural phenomenon that was misinterpreted and became legend.
    What I find egregious about the gold plates is that it occured within the past 200 years. I want to be respectful of Mormonism, but the idea of gold plates written in Egyptian that no one else can see or examine smacks of a hoax to me. It makes me sad & angry that this one man’s ideas/potential chicanery grew into a religion.

  31. UltraMagnus
    Posted June 15, 2007 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Cara,
    Because it’s so recent, that’s all I can figure. Had he existed, hell 500 years earlier then the skeptics would probably look at it like the parting of the Red Sea. Plus, it happened IN America, where “we” like our holy lands older and elsewhere.
    People “were” skeptical of Jesus when he was going around saying he’s the son of god and all that;)

  32. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    I’m in no way trying to validate Mormonism. I’m an atheist. But I don’t see why we should be LESS skeptical of something that “happened” thousands of years ago versus something that “happened” hundreds of years ago. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

  33. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    People “were” skeptical of Jesus when he was going around saying he’s the son of god and all that;)
    I haven’t been convinced of that yet.

  34. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

    . But I don’t see why we should be LESS skeptical of something that “happened” thousands of years ago versus something that “happened” hundreds of years ago. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
    I’m not trying to say that the parting of the Red Sea was any more an act of god. What I mean is how easily natural phenomenon could be interpretted as an act of god back then–hell, we didn’t even know the earth was round back then.

  35. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

    Okay, that’s fair enough. I suppose that the proper analogy (sorry, I’m more rusty on my Christian mythology than I should be) is Moses receiving the Ten Commandments from God.

  36. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

    Exactly, Cara. I don’t know *if* there’s an “original” of the Ten Commandments, but I’d definitely want to examine them, check the language, carbon date them, etc.

  37. Posted June 15, 2007 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure that God destroyed the tablets or something. Again, rusty!
    The point is, of course, that Moses could have made everything up and carved them out just as easily as John Smith could make gold plates . . . that no one was actually able to see. So white dating them would be interesting, it really wouldn’t prove much of anything regarding actual theology.

  38. Posted June 16, 2007 at 12:07 am | Permalink


    “But what do you expect from a religion that was started by a convicted con man who made his money using a “seer stone” to find alleged buried treasure on farmers’ property.”


    I’m sorry, that’s pretty offensive. Because Mormonism makes SO much less sense than any other version of Christianity? As far as I’m concerned they’re all bloody ridiculous but I know some great people who are Christian – and Mormon (even though they don’t like to say they’re Christian lol)

    No argument here. I consider all religion to be more or less equally full of shit. It’s just a little more excusable to get suckered into a religion when the con men and hustlers that started it died thousands of years ago than when it’s so recent that there are actual court records available for inspection.

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