I thought we learned our lesson with R. Kelly?

(Warning: This video is very explicit and may be upsetting)
Obviously, we haven’t.
Excuse me while I got delete all Akon from my playlist.

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  • sojourner

    Ugh.
    This is my favorite part of the article: “many blasted the teen as no “innocent� and insisted she looks much older than her 15 years, espeically dressed provacatiively with a top that left little to the imagination.�
    And that the minister had been “criticizing all involved, including the teen,�
    Of course girls who wear skimpy tops and dance deserve to be assaulted like that, with their head banging on the floor. It pisses me off because it is so darn obvious that she had no control over the situation.

  • EverythingisImage

    Disgusting.

  • EverythingisImage

    Disgusting.

  • TheSoyMilkConspiracy

    Jesus fucking Christ!

  • http://www.feministreview.org Feminist Review

    That was crazy! I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. On the one hand,
    she didn’t seem to be opposed to what was going on, but on the other, do
    we really want simulated statutory rape ON STAGE?! I don’t.

  • philade

    initially I thought, well maybe it’s bad but not terrible if it’s a member of his backup dancers who knew this would be part of the ‘dance’ and who consented to be a part of such an act
    but yeah… then I read the article and it became quite apparent that this girl wasn’t part of his dance troupe, and didn’t know that this would be the nature of the ‘dance’ and so clearly could not have constented to participate in it… and by the way she’s 15
    the way he just threw her around for show where clearly she had no control and was even injured is just disgusting

  • sweetwickedgrl

    As disturbing as the entire video is, what really gets me is that in the end he just walks offstage, and some other guy walks over to help the girl off stage. It just seemed to add to his “use” of her; once he was through, he was through…

  • sojourner

    “On the one hand, she didn’t seem to be opposed to what was going onâ€?
    But how would she express her opposition?? She kept screaming “Oh my god!�. I am sure she must have been really overwhelmed. She is only 15 and looks small compared to the guy, and all the cameras are on her. What would you do really? I am not sure that I would have done anything different.

  • Petrina

    Ugh, I already disliked him after his whole “conflict diamonds do not exist” statement, and now I have another reason never to listen to his crap.

  • http://lawfairy.blogspot.com The Law Fairy

    You know we live in a twisted world when two adult actors exchanging a peck on the cheek results in a call for their arrest, while a singer simulating a violent rape of a child results in people calling out the GIRL for being oh so slutty (how dare she have a developed and attractive body).

  • http://goddesschronicles.allzah.com HeatherBartlett

    I’m just curious, how would you all feel if she’d been 18?
    I was a very promiscuous 15 year old girl – in fact had my first daughter at 15 – and I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same thing at the time it happened and regretted it a bit in retrospect.
    What it comes down to I think is a few things:
    Would this behavior (his OR hers) been acceptable if she had been 18?
    Is 15 an age of consent in Trinidad (and what constitues sexual assault, etc.)?
    Is his behvior criminal or just disgusting?
    I am more disturbed that the girl was able to get into an adult club and that she either got around her parent’s rules or that her parents weren’t paying enough attention because frankly this is the kind of thing you see in adult night clubs.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “Is his behvior criminal or just disgusting?”
    Actually, being touched sexually in a way you don’t want is always criminal, at least in the United Stats.
    “because frankly this is the kind of thing you see in adult night clubs.”
    Really? I /worked/ in a night-club and I never saw a man forcibly dry-humping a woman. If I had seen something like a man doing that or so much as repeatedly making rude comments, my job as a bouncer would have been to kick his ass out on the street…
    Bottom line is, doesn’t matter how promiscuous you are, 18 or 15, he was the one taking control, no vice versa. If she didn’t want it (and from both the video and her comments it appears she didn’t) it’s both disgusting AND criminal.

  • LM

    I know people are going to scream racism for me saying this, but my experiences with reggae and other West Indian parties is that dancing for many men in that culture is basically just simulated sex. They come up to you and grind on you and when you step back they laugh at you and imply you’re immature. This had actually happened to me several times, to the extent that I won’t even bother attending my friends and co-workers parties.One time I pointed out to a man that I wasn’t interested in him grinding on me, saying I was married.He just laughed and said he was too and kept it up till I stepped away. There seems to be a sad lack of respect for women in general.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    I think important things to keep in mind, LM, is that sometimes some of us females /like/ grinding sometimes, and so I don’t consider that type of dancing inherently sexist.
    Of course it’s wrong for people to try and pressure you into doing something if you don’t want to, but that basic premise happens oodles in white, middle-class culture as well…

  • UltraMagnus

    I am not sure that I would have done anything different.
    That is to say, sojourner you would have been up there in the first place?
    Not to “defend” Akon but did HE know she was 15 at the time? I’ve seen the video and I know he based it under the pretense that there was a “contest” to win a trip to Africa (which turned out to be totally bogus) and she volunteered to get onstage and “dance” in order for a shot to win. False pretenses aside, she got on stage of her own volition first in order to *possibly* degrade herself for a trip she thought she could win. I don’t recall anyone asking the women who got on stage their ages and so it was assumed that all the women who did participate were of age and it wasn’t found out until later that she was 15. If I’m off about this let me know but from all the reports I’ve read that’s how it happened.
    The sad fact is we can’t arrest men for acting like dicks and treating women like sexual objects, all of the women got on stage of their own free will, which as feminists we have to let slide.
    So now the question is do we need to ID all young women for raunchy concerts? Or should they have taken the time to ID all the women who got on stage instead of assuming they were of age?
    Mind you I don’t like Akon one bit (sans his yodeling for the Gwen Stefani song, but that could have been anybody) and he’s an asshole for getting these women onstage under a lie and maybe she was the first to go up and didn’t realize what dancing with Akon entailed (check out his molestation of Tara Reid at another concert if you can find it, what he did onstage is this guys MO).

  • Andreas Schou

    Actually, being touched sexually in a way you don’t want is always criminal, at least in the United Stats.

    I wish this were the case (that it was specifically illegal, rather than — as it frequently is — just handled as simple “assault”), but, practically, it’s really not.
    — ACS

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “The sad fact is we can’t arrest men for acting like dicks and treating women like sexual objects”
    UltraMagnus, I don’t think you understand what people are generally upset over. The unwanted touching (to a pretty significant, definitely sexual extent) IS a criminal act. It may be worse in ways because she was also a young, confused girl. But even if she was of legal age it is STILL a criminal act.
    I do not know about all the laws of Trinidad, but in the U.S. we recognize harassing women as criminal (i.e. saying rude things or touching) and direct unwanted sexual touching is considered sexual assault.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “I wish this were the case (that it was specifically illegal, rather than — as it frequently is — just handled as simple “assault”), but, practically, it’s really not. ”
    Well of course we’ve got problems with are court systems. I’m just talking about laws. It is absolutely illegal, and if someone cares enough to try and bring a case to court, they have every right to bring it under “sexual assault”. I’m just speaking as someone trained to assist survivors of sexual violence in finding resources and making decisions (if they choose to) on what to do legally.

  • http://lawfairy.blogspot.com The Law Fairy

    UM, while I agree it was their choice to get up on stage and dance, and he couldn’t have known her age, neither of those things, for me, changes the reprehensibility of his conduct.
    Those women were induced to dance under false pretenses. First off, this might be a little controversial, but I don’t think there’s anything inherently “bad” about a woman dancing on stage — hell, every now and then I just plain feel like shaking my stuff, and I don’t think that makes me a bad feminist. I think that to the extent men disrespect and objectify me for it, that is THEIR responsibility and THEIR wrongdoing, NOT MINE. Just as no woman is responsible for a man’s actions if she’s walking around, hell, buck naked, no woman is responsible for a man treating her like shit just because she had the audacity to dance and enjoy herself.
    Also, these women were promised a trip to Africa. I have to say, catch me in the right mood, and I might just dance to try to win a trip to Africa. I mean, how fucking cool would that be? A free trip to Africa? Hell yes, that would be awesome. Akon LIED to these women and told them they were competing for a desirable prize. Then when the contest was over — Surprise! He lied.
    And anyway, even IF these women had been told that the prize for dancing was getting to “dance” with Akon — dancing and being THROWN around on the stage are two very different things. That was one of the most violent “dances” I’ve ever seen. I’ve been to male revues where the women sometimes get called up for the privilege of being on stage with the guys, and it’s a thousand million times gentler — even though it’s OVERTLY meant to be sexy, and that’s SPECIFICALLY why the women are there. Just watching that video I got a headache. She was being tossed around like a rag doll. She was clinging to him for dear life. I imagine she was terrified and just thinking “please God, let this stop soon.” She had no way to get away, no way to get him to slow down or let her go — as far as I’m concerned, this pretty much WAS a rape. So in my mind it doesn’t matter WHAT age she was.

  • UltraMagnus

    Ninapendamaishi,
    I really do get why people are upset and I honestly believe this girl probably had no idea what she was getting into and even if he’d known she was 14 he probably would have done it anyways.
    That being said no one, not even the girl’s father, seems to want to press charges, which makes this whole thing a moot point for me. If I’d actually bought anything of Akon’s I’d be with Samhita in deleting it, but I really own only one song he’s on.
    I think this goes with Samhita’s earlier post about dancing to misogynist rap music, we as women (especially black women) just need to stop supporting it, period.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “I think this goes with Samhita’s earlier post about dancing to misogynist rap music, we as women (especially black women) just need to stop supporting it, period. ”
    I understand this is a bit debateable, but i don’t have a particular problem with that point.
    I guess I interpreted your post above to sort of be saying that because this girl was willing to dance in a club dance contest she sort of deserved what came next, but if that’s not how you meant it I apologize.
    That being said, I dance to hip-hop too. Sure, I wish the lyrics weren’t misogynistic, but I’m not the one in charge and making the music, and the beats are why you dance to it. (More practically, I guess I don’t think you’re more likely to get a widespread boycott of misogynistic hip-hop (to the point where /that/ would change the industry, anymore than you are likely to get lots of artists who are more respectful of women signed with big lables in the near future… it’s sort of a chicken and the egg phenomenon if you ask me)

  • UltraMagnus

    Ninapendamaishi,
    You are partially right, I was being kind of an asshole with the girl, I have no idea if she knew what was entailed when it came to the dancing contest, however I can almost guarantee you it would entail some sort of material that your average feminist would find degrading (bending over and making your ass bounce, for instance) and in hindsight she got caught up with Akon grinding into her. But had this girl been of age, would we even be watching this footage? It just seems to me it’s the age that’s upsetting people because like I said, he did the exact same thing to Tara Reid a few months back and I don’t recall seeing anyone here upset about it, but then again she’s a fully grown woman.
    That being said, I dance to hip-hop too. Sure, I wish the lyrics weren’t misogynistic, but I’m not the one in charge and making the music, and the beats are why you dance to it. (More practically, I guess I don’t think you’re more likely to get a widespread boycott of misogynistic hip-hop (to the point where /that/ would change the industry, anymore than you are likely to get lots of artists who are more respectful of women signed with big lables in the near future… it’s sort of a chicken and the egg phenomenon if you ask me)
    Then what’s the point of even trying at all? If women continue to buy into this music and ignore what the overall message is then the powers that be will continue to sell it. As I pointed out in the other post, already “bitch” and “ho” have become synonymous with “woman” when in the beginning they (the rappers) kept saying that they weren’t talking about ALL women just the bitches and the hos. We let that go and look what happened.
    And I’m not sure what you mean by the chicken or the egg. Are you saying you can’t tell which came first?
    In the beginning of hip-hop there was none of this truly hateful language towards women, that didn’t start to the 90s with the rise of gangster rap and later especially in the late 90s when southern crunk, other wise known as “strip hop” (because it was predominantly made/played for the strip clubs in southern black cities like Atlanta)and I don’t want to sound like a broken record but I’ll say it again: black women especially let them get away with this. We turned our heads in the other direction and now we have an entire generation of men who think it’s okay and funny to call women bitches and that women should just accept it.
    Even though hip-hop is mostly bought by surburban white teens I still believe that black women can put a stop to this but it requires us giving up something that we like to do (dance) and that’s just not going to happen. Like you said, a lot of women just like the beats, I was one of those women, but there comes a point where you can no longer ignore the lyrics.
    I have been in several gay clubs and you know what they don’t play? Homophobic hip-hop, no matter how good the “beats” are. Not that the gay community matters to those in power at rap record labels but I bet you if women stopped going to clubs that play this music en masse someone would have to take notice.
    Maybe you’re right and that’s just a pipe dream, but if that’s the case then we really have no right to complain about the system that we are supporting.

  • EG

    That’s a really interesting comparison, UM–to the gay clubs, I mean. I’d never thought of that before. Thanks.
    For me, there’s always a somewhat, but not very, moveable line between what I can stomach and what I can’t. I can’t listen to most misogynist crap because it viscerally disgusts me; there’s some stuff I love, usually by the Rolling Stones (except “Under my Thumb” and “Midnight Rambler,” which even I will have nothing to do with), which can be good enough that I’ll move the line for it. But it’s not a thought-out policy. What you say is very interesting to me.

  • dinogirl

    (hey, first time posting!)
    The comments in the article about how she didn’t look that innocent and the top she was wearing reminded me of the Wales statutory rape story from last week.

  • http://thecurvature.blogspot.com Anonymous

    I think this is fucked up regardless of her age. I agree with LF that she clearly had no control over the situation, he was over her, moving violently so that she couldn’t get away and carrying her around the stage (not to mention just leaving her on the floor when he was done). If she did not consent to that type of “dance” before hand in very clear language (and she said she didn’t), I consider it to be sexual assault. If some guy in a dance club asks me to dance and I say yes, that is NOT an invitation to throw me on the floor and start violently dry humping me. AT ALL. I think pretty much everyone can agree with that. What’s the difference if the guy is famous or not? (oh wait, I think I just answered my own question)

  • Mina

    “Even though hip-hop is mostly bought by surburban white teens I still believe that black women can put a stop to this but it requires us giving up something that we like to do (dance) and that’s just not going to happen.”
    Why would it require giving up dance? Why not keep dancing but dance to something else?
    For example, some of my favorite dance music doesn’t have misogynist lyrics because it doesn’t have lyrics at all!
    Trust me, a whole lot of techno and other electronica tracks don’t pose any “the lyrics are misogynist but…”, “I can’t hear the lyrics well enough in this club to tell if they’re misogynist but…”, or “I don’t know Arabic/French/Mandarin/Mongolian/Punjabi/Spanish/etc. enough to know if the lyrics are misogynist but…”, dilemmas. ;)

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “I can almost guarantee you it would entail some sort of material that your average feminist would find degrading (bending over and making your ass bounce, for instance) ”
    And see… I don’t find that inherently degrading. I make my ass bounce on dance floors. It’s sexual yes, but not necessarily degrading. Everybody (men and women)like a little exhibitioinism now and then. But it’s still /my/ sexuality and /my/ ass, and when someone crosses that line (e.g. by telling me what to do or manhandling me) or disrespects me (i.e. by calling insults) /that/ is the point where I’m gonna be pissed, and to me it becomes degrading.

  • UltraMagnus

    Why would it require giving up dance? Why not keep dancing but dance to something else?
    Mina, that’s what I meant. My mistake. Whenever misogynist music comes on I stop dancing, then again, that’s when I’m at clubs that plays a mix of music including hip-hop. Usually my girlfriends go dance at gay clubs.
    I don’t find that inherently degrading. I make my ass bounce on dance floors. It’s sexual yes, but not necessarily degrading.
    Ninapendamaishi, that’s your prerogative but are you trying to win something? I’m not going to get into this debate because it can go on forever but I will say this: maybe you dance at different kinds of straight clubs than I do but I’ve never seen men do the kind of exhibitionism that women engage in (two dude’s kissing? baring their dicks? I think not). Usually the straight guys just stand there.
    Props to you for finding a club where straight guys can actually dance;) (only slightly joking)

  • Ninapendamaishi

    “baring their dicks?”
    How about baring their chests? (Because I really can’t recall seeing chicks bearing their genitals in clubs). I happen to be one of those feminists who think female chests are over-sexualized in our culture (there are plenty of cultures where women baring chests is fairly normal). Also, I don’t know about you, but I definitely salivate over certain guys baring chests.
    “two dude’s kissing?”
    Well, I’m not advocating for pretending to be lesbian when you’re not. I think that’s insulting and trivializing to lesbians.
    No, what I mean is that guys do posture, and they do show off their bodies, and they do certain things to draw attention to themselves. All I’m saying is that I think this is sort of a universal human thing people do sometimes. I don’t think putting myself in a position where other people can admire me in a sexual fashion is a mistake if it’s what /I/ want to do.
    What I want is for women to have full control over their own bodies. This means not letting men do things to them they don’t want, but it also means giving women permission to express their sexuality as they see fit, I think.
    I’m not trying to keep an argument going with you, really, it’s just that for me these are also important considerations in this story. I’m also an art model, though, and I guess you could say this whole theme of being comfortable with human bodies and open sexuality and not feeling like those things inherently jeapordize feminist goals are pretty important to me.

  • Erin

    Bottom line is, doesn’t matter how promiscuous you are, 18 or 15, he was the one taking control, no vice versa. If she didn’t want it (and from both the video and her comments it appears she didn’t) it’s both disgusting AND criminal.
    Well said.

  • lbacher

    “As disturbing as the entire video is, what really gets me is that in the end he just walks offstage, and some other guy walks over to help the girl off stage. It just seemed to add to his “use” of her; once he was through, he was through…”
    That’s my favorite part too. Disgusting and sick, if you ask me.

  • UltraMagnus

    “baring their dicks?”
    How about baring their chests? (Because I really can’t recall seeing chicks bearing their genitals in clubs).

    No to keep the debate going with you Ninapendamaishi but I think you can agree with me that men’s chests are in no way comparable to how women’s chests are sexualized in this world, which is why I said dicks as that’s the only organ on the male body that’s forbidden from public view (an ass is an ass if you ask me and men and women have them).
    I love men’s chests but a man can run around without a shirt on while a woman most certainly cannot and when women bare their breasts in films it’s considered nudity, where as men’s are not. Peaches, who’s an artist I love, has a song about how men should shake their dicks for their the female gaze, recognizing that men flashing their chests isn’t at titillating and until women are allowed the same regard without men oogling our bare chests, there really isn’t a comparison to be made.
    Good discussion though.

  • tofutti

    I’m sorry, I just laughed because the video was so ridiculous.

  • viktor frankl

    what would a man have to do to a woman to result in a situation where most of society agrees that it was wrong? forget society…PEOPLE WHO READ A FUCKING FEMINIST BLOG

  • Ninapendamaishi

    tofutti: lucky for you it wasn’t your head getting smacked on the floor or you getting turned into a sex doll in front of a big crowd. With this thread and with the Toby Keith thread, I just have to ask: if you aren’t interested in making relevant comments or meaningful discussion, why post?

  • viktor frankl

    i think if a man walked up to a woman and randomly killed her on the street people would come on here and say “well….do we KNOW if she may have said something offensive to him?? let’s not jump to conclusions!”

  • Carlie

    Earlier news articles say that she’s 14, so even younger.
    I think he should be banned from the entire country.

  • Mina

    “I think he should be banned from the entire country.”
    It’s a possibility. I heard that actually happened to Snoop Dogg:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6594557.stm

  • aniri

    There is nothing racist about saying that what Akon did on that stage is purely cultural. Soca shows usually involve some grinding action on stage. It is usually explicit. And it happens ALL THE TIME. I feel that so much of a big deal is being made because of the girl’s father.
    I don’t personally like what Akon did and it’s so easy to judge him or to judge the girl. I believe that in this situation one MUST look at the circumstances of the situation. If Akon did something wrong then the same criticism needs to be brought up against every other Carribean artist, particularly from Trinidad. Oh, and don’t forget the female artists who do the same thing.

  • the_becca

    Oh, my god. That was actually worse than I was even expecting it to be… wow. This is “dancing”? People, to come back to reality for a moment, this is a far cry away from even the “grinding” that goes on in clubs… that was clearly violent and just crazy.
    Also, for your infuriated pleasure(?), check out the lovely commentary on a clip of this over at youtube.

  • donna darko

    between this and the toby keith video, i’m officially creeped out.

  • peenerbambina

    This video makes me so damn sad. I watched it first with the sound off (forgotten to plug my speakers in, duh) and then with sound, and it was even worse. The girl had no ecape route, she had no choice in the matter. She had been asked to dance, but if some guy asked me to dance and then did that I think I owuld probably have him arrested. The worst bit is all this hoo ha saying she is “no innocent” and that she was dressed provocativly. I really hate this argument and would like to make a point to all those people out there who make it: A teenage girl can dress like an adult, act like a adult and flirt like a adult BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HER AN ADULT. Teenagers are still so young, far younger than they are allowed to act. And yes, sometimes young girls do experiment with provocative behavior, language or clothes. But the are MINORS, called as such because it takes a degree of emotional maturity (not just physical) to be able to give INFORMED consent instead of going along with something (like the girl in this vid) because they are unsure how to get out of it.

  • peenerbambina

    This video makes me so damn sad. I watched it first with the sound off (forgotten to plug my speakers in, duh) and then with sound, and it was even worse. The girl had no ecape route, she had no choice in the matter. She had been asked to dance, but if some guy asked me to dance and then did that I think I would probably have him arrested. The worst bit is all this hoo ha saying she is “no innocent” and that she was dressed provocativly. I really hate this argument and would like to make a point to all those people out there who make it: A teenage girl can dress like an adult, act like a adult and flirt like a adult BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HER AN ADULT. Teenagers are still so young, far younger than they are allowed to act. And yes, sometimes young girls do experiment with provocative behavior, language or clothes. But they are MINORS, called as such because it takes a degree of emotional maturity (not just physical) to be able to give INFORMED consent instead of going along with something (like the girl in this vid) because they are unsure how to get out of it.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    aniri,
    people aren’t upset because of the grinding. It’s because of the way it was done, and because the girl had no choice in the matter. That definitely DOESN’T happen at every Carribean show. Read some of the comments here and maybe you’ll understand better.

  • Scilian

    What the hell? Some of you people have distorted a girls actions to him being raped?
    I guess everyone missed the beginning when she drops to floor and starts raping him (since this is what dancing is now called, as per the posters in this thread).
    So even though she initiated the grinding by laying down on the floor, and he participated, she misrepresented her age (he had no clue she was underage, how many here have ID guys before dancing with them), he is at fault?
    This is sick and disturbed logic at best.
    This is outright hating men if you ask me. He did nothing to instigate it, she wanted to dance that way, yet he assaulted her.
    Way to go feministing.

  • Scilian

    Ohh let me guess, he is guilty in a duke rape case kind of way, selective digestion of the facts?
    Look at the entire video on youtube before wantonly trying to attack a male for rape, which never occurred. Jumping down on a floor grinding his crotch with her crotch, and he decides to dance with a supposed adult at an 18+ only club?
    The only person at fault is the club owners for letting a 15 year old sneak into a place she didnt belong. The

  • Ninapendamaishi

    the video most certainly /does not/ show how the girl got to the floor, and the yelling “oh my god!” does not indicate she was wanting to dance that way, and neither do her comments.
    And people never said he was raping her. People said he was “simulating rape” which may be debatable, but is not the same as equating fully-consensual grinding with rape at all.

  • Scilian

    Yeah well whatever. You watch an edited video (clearly edited since the fade in not on the clip)
    I suggest you go to youtube and search the Akon clips which clearly show getting on stage and initiating it.
    But convicting someone on an edited tape is very faulty logic.
    I guess people here never learn from their (as well as history’s) repeated mistakes. sigh…
    All the evidence pointing to the duke rape case and it was spun to the point of vomit on this board. Now this.

  • Ninapendamaishi

    Even /if/ she initiated dancing, do you honestly think she wanted her head to be smacked on the floor like that and to be tossed around like that? That is not the way people usually dance.
    Do /you/ like having your head smacked on the floor and getting thrown around when you dance?

  • Scilian

    Some people do. Your talking about a girl who is upset her pastor father found out about it.
    She now plays the I didnt want it card because of religous pressures.
    More probable than him picking out a girl in the crowd, because he had secret operatives steal her ID and let him know she was underage (by dates alone, because she appears like any other average 18 – 21 year old), then he had ninjas slip some date rape drugs to loosen her inhibitions to get up on stage even though she didnt want to.
    Once she was on stage, he pointed a gun at her (couldnt see it because it blocked by his back to the camera) and gave her the “grey” rape look disguised by bobbing his head to the music, and then raped her. Her pleas “Ohhh my god” which were clearly screams of pain. Because humans say Ohh my god! to verbalize the pain of rape. Not no, stop, or even so much as oww…
    No, I like to know what really happened. You guys can sit around and play “Duke and Dancers” all you want.