Lesbians have better sex than straight women.

I can’t say I’m too surprised.
A recent survey in Australia showed that lesbians have orgasms more frequently during sex than straight women.
I can think of quite a few reasons behind this. Thoughts?
UPDATE: Thanks to Amanda for creating this visual representation of the survey results.

Join the Conversation

  • http://abstractnonsense.wordpress.com/ Alon Levy

    Thoughts?
    I’m thinking hard how many times I’ve heard this before. I’m not sure whether it’s in the single or double digits…
    I think the reason is fairly straightforward: there’s an obvious, conformistic way to have sex when at least one partner has a penis, so couples will stick to it. Absent a penis, they’ll have to invent something on their own, which will generally be more enjoyable.

  • Spungen

    Men consider cunnilingus optional; women don’t.

  • http://liberal-debutante.typepad.com Katie Kish

    Men consider cunnilingus optional; women don’t.
    ding ding!
    As a participator in both straight and gay sex – i can say this is very much the case. In fact a lot of guys (that i’ve been with anyway) don’t even find it necessary to give the clit any attention at all.

  • Lya Kahlo

    “Men consider cunnilingus optional; women don’t.”
    We have a winner! Its worse with boys who watch porn. They think hammering away on you will mean you’ll beg them to cum all over you. They know nothing about what gets women off.

  • Moopaw

    This reminds me of an episode from Seinfeld, where Elaine tries to get a gay man to leave his “team” for her “team”. When she fails she says “It is all a matter of having time with the equiptment”

  • B.D.

    Well, it’s an interesting topic, but I’m disappointed that the study was reduced by your site to the most titillating portion of it. Surely in a survey of 19,000 women, the study found out other interesting facts such as 5.2% of men did not orgasm and 31.1% of heterosexual women did not orgasm and that while oral stimulation was a main cause for lesbian and straight women to achieve orgasm, manual stimulation was also cited as contributing to orgasm.
    My point: The Sun and other major media outlets reduced this to “Lesbians have more orgasms” and that portends a straight male fascination with lesbians. I had hoped you would take on a more rounded approach.

  • lieinveigleobfuscate

    Whenever I read comments to the point of “Men consider cunnilingus optional; women don’t” I wonder what sexually deprived corner of the US the ladies are living in. Men LOVE going down South, spent some time playing Dixieland last night myself, try asking one of us sometime.
    Also, where do you get hetero porn that DOESN’T include cunnilingus? Perhaps we boys just expect any woman born after 1970 to self-sufficient enough to vocalize her preferences.

  • noname

    I would be shocked if this weren’t true. I would imagine this is true for gay men as well.

  • elektrodot

    hmm id have to agree somewhat with liein…alot of women do have a problem vocalizing there preferances, and as a female watcher of porn, there is cunnilingus BUT usually only under the guise of 2 “lesbians” doing it.

  • Panic

    Men consider cunnilingus optional; women don’t.
    Ah be careful with stereotyping there! I (very female) consider it optional; I don’t really have clitoral orgasms with a parter, but I do g-spot. And the first person who says “Oh you just haven’t had the right partner” is gonna get it.
    And next on TMI theatre…

  • http://theohzone.org suzie

    I think that’s really typical to assume girls can’t get each other off manually. You don’t need a dick to get a g-spot orgasm and girls probably know what’s going to give the other girl an orgasm instead of blindly assuming like most men do.

  • B.D.

    Also in the study: 75% of the women had some form of “maual stimulation” during their most recent sexual encounter while only 24% had oral stimulation. One percent had anal intercourse.
    More here:
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20436623-2702,00.html

  • lieinveigleobfuscate

    “girls probably know what’s going to give the other girl an orgasm instead of blindly assuming like most men do.”
    Again, I have to ask, what sexually deprived corner of the US do you live in? Any guy who watches late-night HBO has been given detailed instructions on finding and stimulating the g-spot!
    Also, can I now assume that blowjobs are required (that would be nice)?

  • lieinveigleobfuscate

    “girls probably know what’s going to give the other girl an orgasm instead of blindly assuming like most men do.”
    Again, I have to ask, what sexually deprived corner of the US do you live in? Any guy who watches late-night HBO has been given detailed instructions on finding and stimulating the g-spot, from the inside view!
    Also, can I now assume that blowjobs aren’t optional anymore(that would be nice)?

  • Lya Kahlo

    “Also, where do you get hetero porn that DOESN’T include cunnilingus? ”
    Oh you mean that whole four seconds the guys down there before he demands she spend 20 mintues sucking him off? C’mon. The cunnilingus in porn is crap.
    And perhaps YOU don’t mind going south but plenty of boys do – but have no trouble expecting it for themselves.
    “Perhaps we boys just expect any woman born after 1970 to self-sufficient enough to vocalize her preferences.”
    Wow. A whole three minutes before someone blamed women. *lol* When did the constant brainwashing that bringing up a boy’s sexual failings will hurt his frail ego and make him run away stop? I must have slept in that day.

  • http://manda1poo.blogspot.com activistgradgal

    My girlfriend and I both consider oral sex option–but we pretty much consider every sexual act option for any given sex session (except nipple stimulation for me–that’s always a given!). Actually my gf is kind of anti-oral sex in the “I don’t really like it” way…I’m not all that happy about it, but since I can’t get an orgasm from it anyway it’s not a huge problem.
    My theory about why women who have sex with women have more orgasms is that the typical way that there isn’t any norm that says that in order to be having sex both of our genitals have to be involved. So, there are plenty of times when my gf or I are not that into it and don’t really want to be “done” ourselves, so we just “do” the other person…or sometimes we only have time for one person or we just want to take our time with that person and just concentrate on her. But if the norm for sex between males and females is intercourse–hence, if I were with a guy and didn’t feel like it and said “why don’t I just concentrate on you and give you a handjob, it might not be seen as “real” sex. Or, if all I want is a vibrator and some teasing and nipple stimulation, that’s a pretty common kind of sex for my gf and I. I’m not sure, though, that in a heterosexual relationship it would count as “sex.” (Women in heterosexual relationships–what do you think?)
    Anyway, perhaps part of the issue is that her genitals never have to be involved for me to have “real” sex (or the sex I most enjoy)–whereas, that’s likely not true for women having sex with men. So it turns out for us, if someone isn’t totally in the mood or we don’t have enough time we just don’t even involve the genitals of that person. So I can give my gf the kind of pleasure she wants without having to involve my genitals. Thus if we do involve my genitals, it’s usually because I really did feel like it, so I pretty much always end up having an orgasm. After all, pretty much the only reason for my genitals to be involve in sex is if *I* am going to get a lot of pleasure out of it. But with a man, a big reason for *my* genitals to be involved would be *his* pleasure. And if my genitals get involved only for someone else’s pleasure, then how could I expect to always have an orgasm?

  • Laina

    While I do hate blaming women for men being bad at sex, I do have to agree with lieinveigleobfuscate on the point that women and men BOTH need to tell their partners what feels good to them. Penises and vulvas are all different from each other, what one woman likes I may not, what one man likes another may not. I think that one reason that women may have more orgasms with other woman is that oftentimes, people DON’T tell their partners their preferences, but women with female-parts already have a pretty good idea of what’s nice because they have similar parts, whereas less experienced men or men whose partners were not honest in bed, were not as likely to know what to do. Of course, this is totally not saying “oh my god, it is all women’s fault that they do not get off when sleeping with men!!!,” but rather an assertion that both women AND men need to communicate in bed when sleeping with each other [or with people of their own sex/gender/whatever]. I cannot tell you how many male-assigned people I have been with that did NOT tell me what felt good! If I was going too hard, too soft, if they wanted me to change something. I had to wait WEEKS until they told me to change what I was doing, it was quite frustrating!
    People of all genders and sexes need to realize that there is no need to be “polite” in bed, and no need to flatter their partners and tell them that they are good in bed when, in reality, they are not. I strongly believe that men can be trained to be good lovers, as can women. If both partners are interested in being in a healthy and enjoyable sexual relationship, the sky’s the limit! [IT TAKES WORK!]

  • Laina

    To activistgradgal:
    What is considered sex is different for everyone. Maybe I have been conditioned to think this by going to a school that’s too liberal for its own good, but if oral sex and anal sex can be sex, why can’t handjobs, using vibrators or dildos, bdsm, and breast-fucking be considered sex? Or even, why does something called “sex” by one person have to have that same label for another? It is all very fluid, imo.

  • lieinveigleobfuscate

    “When did the constant brainwashing that bringing up a boy’s sexual failings will hurt his frail ego and make him run away stop”?
    For someone who claims to be a feminist, and feels offended that I would bring up that women need to make men aware of their needs, you’re very quick to turn around and say that men will run away if you do. Perhaps your answer lies in being a little trooper in bed rather than on the Internet. You’ll get more results from the guy in the bed than the ones who aren’t reading these posts.
    Don’t be a hypocrite; if you’re tough enough to talk tough on this board, then you’re more than tough enough to try it out in real life.
    Finally, once more about cunnilingus in porn, my observation has been that I spend a lot of time fast-forwarding over those parts; much more than “30 seconds” :)

  • dagnymeetsassisi

    Other contributions may be that lesbians have mostly had to overcome LOTS of taboos and pressures to get to a point where they are having sex, and therefore may be less inhibited in bed and more apt to get/give pleasure. (Obviously, this would apply to much other-than-hetero sex in which people engage) On sort of the flip side of the same coin, lots of people who are engaged in hetero sex would **really** prefer to be doing something/ someone else, and are not being as fulfilled. Also, and I’m at an age where many of my friends are going through this, there’s the old “trying to have a baby” sex, that can wind up being more about the conception than the actual roll in the hay (or where-ever).

  • Lya Kahlo

    “People of all genders and sexes need to realize that there is no need to be “polite” in bed, and no need to flatter their partners and tell them that they are good in bed when, in reality, they are not. I strongly believe that men can be trained to be good lovers, as can women. If both partners are interested in being in a healthy and enjoyable sexual relationship, the sky’s the limit! [IT TAKES WORK!]”
    This I absolutely agree with.
    ~~~
    “For someone who claims to be a feminist, and feels offended that I would bring up that women need to make men aware of their needs, you’re very quick to turn around and say that men will run away if you do.”
    I would suggest reading my post again. Did I say a word about feminism? Did I ever claim anythign about it? Let’s try a little honesty, please. Did I say I was offended? Did I say boys would “run away” or was did I clearly state that it was societial brainwashing that can make women belive that they will?
    “Perhaps your answer lies in being a little trooper in bed rather than on the Internet. You’ll get more results from the guy in the bed than the ones who aren’t reading these posts. “Don’t be a hypocrite; if you’re tough enough to talk tough on this board, then you’re more than tough enough to try it out in real life.””
    Ah, yes – condescension. You’re really scoring cool points now! *lol* Don’t pretend to know anything about me, it’s very dishonest. Given that you’ve completely missed my point, don’t now pretend to give me advice. It’s very immature.
    “Finally, once more about cunnilingus in porn, my observation has been that I spend a lot of time fast-forwarding over those parts; much more than “30 seconds” :)”
    Where did I say thirty seconds? Did you read my post at all or are you just reacting? As someone else pointed out when it does appear in porn (and lasts longer than the fours seconds male porn stars seem to spend down there) it’s the male-fantasy-styled pseudo lesbians putting on a show for the boy who’ll join in to get off (and not get either women off) after your “30 seconds”.

  • http://www.short-b.us/ maz

    One thing that really bothers me with how this article was written here, and portrayed in the comments is one simple thing. Talking about sex is the key to getting what you want, and what your body needs in order to achieve an orgasm.
    I’m one of those men that doesn’t always achieve orgasm from sex, it doesn’t really bother me as sex is more than just getting my nut. It’s a bonding experience with my gal, and something that brings us closer together. Allows us to enjoy each other on another level.
    Back to talking about sex. Every girl I’ve been with has been drastically different in what they need or want in order to have an orgasm. Sure if you pay attention and try out different things you’re gonna get there eventually. A few words here and there and it’s going to be even faster and you’ll both enjoy what happens more.
    Perhaps if sex wasn’t so demonized by neocons these weird “taboos” of talking about sex wouldn’t be around anymore. Plurhaps if children were raised with their parents talking about sex to them more often than not these issues wouldn’t exist.
    Just because there are some men out there that just thrust, pull, thrust, pull, shoot their load, doesn’t mean that all of us are that way.

  • http://lawfairy.blogspot.com The Law Fairy

    Well as for “what corner” these men are from — I once dated a guy from Long Island who expected oral sex from me but never gave it, and refused even to kiss me after he’d finished. Needless to say, we did not date for very long.
    I have only had one boyfriend who was as much of a giver as a taker, and we never had “real” sex, interestingly enough. I hate the notion that sex is only “real” if it involves penile-vaginal penetration. What a crock of shit. Sex is anything that makes you feel good and feel intimate with your partner. I can guarantee to you that I was having sex long before I “lost my virginity.” It’s stupid to set up these limited notions of what counts as sex and what doesn’t. If it’s something you enjoy with your lover in the privacy of your own home, that’s good enough for me.
    liein, you sound like a giving kind of guy, but most men are not like you. And I do think we have a bit of an edge here to speak from experience, unless you have dated a lot of men who never spent all that much time on you. I can’t count on my hands the number of times I’ve had a guy go down on me, only for him to come up while I was *still* encouraging him and obviously enjoying myself, because *he* decided *he* was ready for the “real” thing. I have never once stopped oral sex on a guy just because I’d rather be doing something else. I’ve given myself jaw aches trying to give him pleasure, and I can tell you that the *majority* of men that I’ve dated wouldn’t even consider extending the same courtesy to me or anyone else they’ve dated.

  • http://civilliberty.about.com Tom Head

    You know, I’m 28 and a virgin, and reading this thread makes me both increasingly proud of my decision to wait and increasingly confident that I’ve missed absolutely nothing that wouldn’t have been helped by waiting.
    Not that it ever would have occurred to me not to go into a sexual experience with the other person’s physical pleasure as my primary concern, but FWIW, I’m taking notes.
    Cheers,
    TH

  • lieinveigleobfuscate

    Lya Kahlo – not all of my comments are directed towards you. Your self-absorption is showing, as is your singular ability to take honest advice interpret it as an insult.
    Law Fairy – Thank you, your comments were enlightening and worth considering.

  • http://manda1poo.blogspot.com activistgradgal

    Laina,
    I definitely agree that what counts as sex is fluid and different for everyone! I think everyone would be better off if they accepted this in their early teens, before they engage in anything sexual.
    I was suggesting though, that it’s likely that lesbians as a group are more likely to believe in the fluidity than heterosexual men (and probably heterosexual women) as a group–which is exactly the problem! For instance, I had a good amount of sex with males and females before I had heterosexual intercourse for the first time. I put no weight on that event at all, but while talking to straight friends they kept going on about how “you lost your viriginity!” which I took as essentially saying “all that other stuff you did wasn’t ‘real’ sex–it’s not real unless there’s a penis in your vagina.” I, of course, thought it was total bullshit. It essentially invalidates almost all of the sex my girlfriend and I have (because very little of it involves more penetration than fingers) and puts a one night stand (which involved no orgasm for me!) on a pedestal. If this is the attitude toward intercourse they have in their own relationships, then it’s no wonder if they’re not getting as many orgasms as they want (which, last I talked to them about it, they weren’t).

  • http://manda1poo.blogspot.com activistgradgal

    Laina,
    I definitely agree that what counts as sex is fluid and different for everyone! I think everyone would be better off if they accepted this in their early teens, before they engage in anything sexual.
    I was suggesting though, that it’s likely that lesbians as a group are more likely to believe in the fluidity than heterosexual men (and probably heterosexual women) as a group–which is exactly the problem! For instance, I had a good amount of sex with males and females before I had heterosexual intercourse for the first time. I put no weight on that event at all, but while talking to straight friends they kept going on about how “you lost your viriginity!” which I took as essentially saying “all that other stuff you did wasn’t ‘real’ sex–it’s not real unless there’s a penis in your vagina.” I, of course, thought it was total bullshit. It essentially invalidates almost all of the sex my girlfriend and I have (because very little of it involves more penetration than fingers) and puts a one night stand (which involved no orgasm for me!) on a pedestal. If this is the attitude toward intercourse they have in their own relationships, then it’s no wonder if they’re not getting as many orgasms as they want (which, last I talked to them about it, they weren’t).

  • http://alberich10.blogspot.com DAS

    This reminds me of an episode from Seinfeld, where Elaine tries to get a gay man to leave his “team” for her “team”. When she fails she says “It is all a matter of having time with the equiptment” – moopaw
    I would have thought this too, until I became more aware (in a way that had little to do with sex, btw … and everything to do with ways of treating stubborn jock itch which a male friend in another state and myself seemed to develop at the same time) of how different even people of the same sex are with respect to the sensativities of our genitals.
    My suspicion as to a critical reason for the difference is one of patience: at least in my experience (and maybe it’s ’cause I’m simply not that good or even all that experienced yet) women take a much longer time to reach orgasm than, e.g., I do. As much as I like to munch carpet, I simply cannot manage to be diving down there for 0.5+ hour stretches without coming up for air. And after about an hour of anything else in which I may be stimulated, I cannot hold out any longer.
    OTOH, I would reckon that perhaps women do have more endurance than men and are more capable of the long term stimulation needed to fully get each other off?
    Also, does this study take into account the role of having kids around? I would image that het couples are more likely to have young kids around than lesbians, which would make a difference in the results. In particular, babies are a notoriously famous form of birth control, as they say. Even when the baby’s asleep, he’ll somehow “realize” that mommy and daddy are potentially producing competition for him, and he’ll wake up and start crying — you typically have a window of about an hour or two tops (if you’re lucky) to cuddle, engage in foreplay and get down and dirty before the baby wakes up — and that just isn’t enough time for many women (and even a few men) to reach orgasm … I guess it’s better as kids get older, but still: getting enough of a chunk of time alone when not dead tired is a serious challenge. If one can reach orgasm in 20 minutes or so, that’s one thing, but if it takes an hour+ of sex to reach orgasm — well, orgasms become out of the question at certain times in one’s life: unless one has an understanding babysitter at the ready.

  • noname

    TH – You are under no pressure to answer this, but I have always wanted to ask: What are you waiting for, and why?
    Again, to be clear, please do not answer this if it makes you feel uncomfortable.

  • http://civilliberty.about.com Tom Head

    Not at all, noname–when I go around announcing I’m a virgin, that’s an entirely reasonable followup question.
    The answer is basically that I have always seen sex as a pair-bonding thing, and I’ve never had a relationship that went on long enough, and was successful enough, to make me feel like that level of pair-bonding, that level of emotional risk, was appropriate. I really plan on going through life, ideally, with only one sexual partner.
    I’ve also had a very unconventional life: Homeschooled K-12, distance learning degree, various medical issues, including an immune deficiency that seriously cut down on my social outlets until I hit my late teens, and when I did socialize, it was generally with people significantly older than I am. I’m 28 now, but until very recently, almost all of my friends were over 40.
    I also tend to socialize with women instead of men, and most men who have sex early do so, at least in part, due to peer pressure, or at least strong peer encouragement. When most of your friends are women, it’s very hard to see women as sexual prospects. I give off androgynous, “safe” vibes that make me an excellent friend but a completely uninteresting potential lover.
    I don’t buy into any of that ladder theory crap, but I do recognize that people tend to get compartmentalized, and I have always made a special effort to be compartmentalized as a friend, when given the option, because I’m not really capable of seeing women as potential sexual conquests and don’t see that as a healthy way to start a relationship.
    And while I’m agnostic myself, I was raised in a household where the “no casual sex” message was really hammered in, more because of a life-altering teen pregnancy experience that a member of the family had than anything religious.
    There are a bunch of explanations, and you can pick your favorite. Some of them make me sound really impressive; some of them make me sound really pathetic. I think there are probably elements of both in my personality, but I do welcome the opportunity to clarify that I’m not one of the Abstinence People. I preach safe sex, I own condoms, and I have absolutely no problem with people who have more active sex lives than I do.
    Thanks for asking!
    Cheers,
    TH

  • Linnaeus

    Just to give a quick hit, I totally agree with the poster upthread who said that the key is that both partners in a sexual relationship communicate their desires in a supportive, nonjudgemental manner. In my view, it’s rather corrosive to assume that a potential partner “just knows what to do” or that he or she *should* “just know what to do.” Every person is different.
    My current partner likes cunnilingus at lot, my previous one did not as much. My previous partner liked to perform fellatio, my current does not like it, and hence doesn’t do it. I wouldn’t have known any of that, as well as how best to please each partner, if I hadn’t talked with them about it.

  • Renee

    How oddly reductionist. The actual study states that women are more likely to have an orgasm during lesbian sex, not that lesbians are more likely to orgasm.
    While that may seem like the same thing to straight women who are busily wishing they were lesbians, it’s not.

  • JesusJonesSuperstar

    “… They know nothing about what gets women off.”
    Don’t know, or just don’t care? I would bet the later. Most men become bitter and no longer care.
    the dudes who are attractive don’t bother. IF u want a more attentive partner, go date a dweeb.
    each person is responsible for their own sexual pleasure and orgasms. Blaming “him” or whatever is just shirking responsibility.

  • http://lawfairy.blogspot.com The Law Fairy

    DAS, interesting points but I think it’s more complicated than that. Sex is about more than *just* the act of stimulation, whatever that act is. Sex starts with small gestures that indicate love and respect for your partner. Hormones start roaring for the strangest reasons. There could be times where you could spend 5 hours on your partner and nothing would happen. There could be other times where it doesn’t take her as much as two minutes to come. And no, I am not exaggerating.
    The reason men come so much more easily on the whole is that society is geared toward sexually pleasing men, not women. The chemistry of sex is WAAAAYY more complicated that even the interactions of a couple. Hang-ups from past lovers, daddy issues, fat days, and any other number of things could make lovemaking less pleasurable. Women are less likely to feel sexy than to feel like *sex*, thanks to the booming anti-woman porn industry. And while we certainly can’t place the blame for this squarely on the shoulders of each individual male partner, the fact of the matter is that when you’re in a relationship you ought to do what you can to bring your partner pleasure. And that might be more work for men, true — but that’s only because LIFE is more work for us.

  • noname

    TH – Thanks for answerring.

  • http://abstractnonsense.wordpress.com/ Alon Levy

    Just out of curiosity, how many of the people in this thread who talk about what is and isn’t in porn have watched mainstream porn?

  • http://www.the-reaction.blogspot.com/ Heraclitus

    I agree with the posters who emphasized that not all men are completely unskilled and uncaring in bed. The bottom line, at least for me, is that you’re unlikely to have a very good sexual experience with someone who’s self-absorbed, and there are plenty of self-absorbed members of both sexes.
    But I can’t believe no one has mentioned a Woody Allen joke. The most apropos one seems to me to be a line from Love and Death. After he sleeps with the Countess (or whatever her title is), she says breathlessly, “You…are a magnificant lover.” To which Woody responds, shrugging and blushing modestly, “Well, I practice a lot when I’m alone.”

  • http://anti-essentialistspeaksup.blogspot.com/ sylviasrevenge

    I find it hilarious that the orgasm is seen as the key to “successful” sex, so to speak. You can have a fulfilling sexual experience without getting off; “more” does not automatically equal “better.”

  • JohnPkc

    I’m a hetero guy. I’m 46, my girlfriend is 45. We only see each other on weekends (I live 100 miles away). She has at least two orgasms / weekend with me, usually three or four. I really don’t think she’s faking; I can go into why I believe this is so if anyone’s interested. She has orgasms during cunnilingus and during intercourse. I love going down on her. As Dan Savage has written, “Cunnilingus is standard equipment. Any model that does not come with cunnilingus should be returned to the showroom immediately.” BTW fellatio is standard equipment these days, too. :-)
    I recommend that hetero guys who want to please their girl obtain and read a copy of “She Comes First” by Ian Kerner. It’s a great little book that teaches a lover the right focus for pleasuring a woman. How many guys reading this can name any of the eighteen parts of the clitoral network? Become a student of female genital anatomy, it will make you a better lover.
    I agree with The Law Fairy – in a healthy sexual relationship, each partner is focused on giving the other partner pleasure. I also think that in a hetero relationship, it is far more important for the man to learn how to pleasure the woman. It’s just easier for men to reach orgasm, on average.

  • Matt S.

    I agree with Skyanide.
    My first reaction to the post was the title. To say that “more orgasms = better sex” is a vast oversimplification.
    My girlfriend is multi-orgasmic. I, like most men, can only come once most times we have sex. If she has 3 or 4 orgasms and I only have 1, but we are both really happy does that mean she had better sex than I did?

  • http://civilliberty.about.com Tom Head

    Well, it certainly does look like there’s a possible reductio ad absurdum here where if sex is a quantitative sensory experience with no emotional component to it at all, we should all just be having sex with machines, which can outperform any human in the orgasm production department, or so I’ve been told. Presumably there’s a really strange porno remake of John Henry to be made out of this question.
    But that’s really kind of nitpicking. I think men can learn a lot from this article without necessarily buying into an overly quantitative idea of what sex is. And it’s really not fair to criticize the study for being quantitative and reductionistic, since that’s what science generally is.
    Cheers,
    TH

  • EG

    There lies my steel-driving man, Lord, Lord, there lies my steel-driving man…
    Tom, I just completely grossed myself out, thanks to that thought!

  • http://civilliberty.about.com Tom Head

    Always glad to be of assistance, EG. ;o)
    Cheers,
    TH

  • Vervain

    This reminds me of a survey/study I read about in college about who was having the most sex–lesbians came out as having the least.
    Of course the lesbians were quick to point out that the phrasing of the questions, such as “How many times a week do you and your partner have sex?” would lead heterosexual respondents to answer based on whether the man had an orgasm, regardless of whether or not the woman did.
    They also pointed out that while the lesbians surveyed might have reported having sex fewer “times” a week, odds were high that those encounters included one or more orgasms for BOTH participants–and that the number of times reported by heterosexual couples would likely drop significantly if mutual orgasm was a qualifier in counting how many times a week the couple had sex.
    This study seems to prove them right–lesbians may be having less sex, but they’re enjoying it more. Quality over quantity!

  • http://civilliberty.about.com Tom Head

    Vervain, you may be on to something here. Our entire definition of “having sex” is based around frequency of orgasm, rather than duration–a hopelessly patriarchal. Maybe we need to ditch this whole idea of virginity and look at sex as a form of physical affection, which is basically what it is anyway.
    Cheers,
    TH

  • Matt S.

    The whole survey rests on a highly clinical view of sex. “How many orgasms?” “Manual stimulation y/n?” “Oral sex y/n?”
    None of that tells us anything about whether the partners in the relationship are satisfied and happy with their sex life.
    We can infer that more orgasms = more satisfaction, but it’s pretty damn simplistic. I have had unsatisfying sex where I came and satisfying sex where I didn’t (albeit less often :-).
    My concern is this — if focusing on orgasm as the point of sex is patriarchical and cribbed, then the original post played right into that paradigm. “Lesbians have better sex . . .” is a snappy headline, but one that is not proved by the survey.

  • nonwhiteperson

    Our entire definition of having sex is based around frequency of orgasm.
    The whole survey rests on a highly clinical view of sex. How many orgasms?
    I prefer cuddling.

  • feminist101

    Ok —
    Regardless of how much cunnilingus there is or isnt in porn – MANY IRL guys DO seem to think they’re supposed to go down on me for about 30 seconds before I’m supposed to go down on them for 10-15 minutes.
    And ya know what? I resent them for being selfish in bed. Vocalization is great and all, but I don’t want to have to ask every time, and I don’t want to have to keep telling them to keep going over and over — that’s not sexy for me. The guys should try to figure it out too. A lot of times I feel like I’m putting in work and effort to get HIM off : I’d like to feel like he’s working at getting me off too. Instead, with some guys, I’ve felt like I have to do everythign — put a lot of work into getting them off and then a lot of work into getting me off. I hate that.
    And ya you can say those guys are just selfish, all guys aren’t like that, but it DOES seem like our culture has trained guys Very Poorly in how to please women in bed, and hardcore porn def. contributes to this (yes, i watch quite a bit of it, thank you, I feel qualified to judge) by constantly bombarding men with sexual scenarios that are all about their own pleasure. Based on hardcore porn, if I were a guy, I, too, would believe that the way to get women off is to make them suck my dick (pref. try to choke them on it, too) for a very long time before engaging in the hardest, fastest intercourse possible (pref. with absoultely no body parts other than genitals touching). I’d also expect she would want me to try to have anal sex with her and that probably a great way to please the woman at the end would then be to come in her face.

  • PC

    I am a lesbian and I must admit have spent far too much time in the bedroom exploring possibilities; and who is to say if i wasn’t hetero that i may have done the same thing… although i am dubious that my efforts would have yielded the same results. I can tell you that anything over 50 orgasms in a day you pay for it the next day feeling very crampy similar to period cramps.
    That being said, from conversations with friends i find many lesbians completely uptight and unwilling to explore their own bodies or their partners. Lesbians rarely even talk about having sex, much less taboo subjects like penetration, anal, fisting, porn, role play etc. Many lesbians eventually dispense with sex altogether.. this is so common it has its own title “lesbian bed death”.
    The most important ingredients: imagination + communication + an open mind + litres of lube = a lot of fun.

  • cari

    I found this biased, how many women didn’t take the survey. Putting faith in survey’s is dumb. Millions upon millions of women do not take these. That means far more women are not taking this. Most women wouldn’t want to, lets not forget to mention, how many are truly honast? how many are exaggerating? I have to laugh when people say women know how to please women. Everybody is different. Nothing pleases everybody, what a load of tripe! The truth is that because two women don’t have inter-working parts they have to work harder at getting their partners to orgasm. I’ve known lesbians that said they found lesbian sex boring, and thank you for mentioning lesbian bed death, which is very common. The only thing that I could see that would benefit is that in heterosexual relationships, some women depend on the man to do everything, and some women just lay there.