WTF?

It also reminds of the soccer/swim team from high school, where some guys got made fun of for being too feminine because they shaved their legs for athletic purposes.

I'd also suggest "body image" as a tag for this article, but then again I am horribly biased in that regard, seeing body image content everywhere.

Whoa. That response from this so-called beauty editor is psychologically confusing...

Does that mean that a man who gets a wax is going to suffer a gender-related breakdown? What if he does dishes or is nurturing? OMG!

But...But...Chu should know that shaving next to a boyfriend or husband in the morning can be such a bonding experience!

I think just about everything is retouched off a model's face. Anytime I glance at these magazines, I know what is being shown is a cartoon built on top of human parts.

haha, I saw this earlier this week and about had a fit. When I was really little, I "shaved" my face whenever my dad did - he put the cap on a disposable razor for me, then I put a ton of shaving cream on my face and then "shaved" it off. When I shared this with my female friends, it turns out a lot of us did the same thing and, as far as we're concerned, we haven't suffered any psychological confusion.

I think the only psychologically confusing thing here is this woman's response. And who says that face shaving has to be exclusively a masculine thing?

Yeah, ladies! Don't use the cheap, harmless method of removing hair from your face with tools you already have. Use the painful, expensive procedures using products you have to go out of your way to buy or you'll think you're a dude.

You know, I can attest to this. Once, as a teen, I shaved the hair from my upper lip. Ten minutes later my mother found me on the bathroom floor, cradling myself in the fetal position. She asked me what was wrong and all I could jibber was "My penis, My penis, where did it go?" She then lifted me up from the floor and explained to me that I was a female and thus, no penis. She asked me what could possibly make me think I ever had a penis and I then pointed to my now freshly bare upper lip, the razor still in my hand and she gave me an understanding nod, telling me to wax it next time so I wouldn't feel the pangs of a phantom penis that was never there to begin with.

This is serious mental health advice you shouldn't be ignoring Jessica, a lot of women could end up curled in a ball on their bathroom floors, psychologically confused [about their gender roles]. Come to think of it, we also shouldn't let women vote, drive cars, walk outside unaccompanied by a male or have sex for pleasure, least those psychologically confuse us, or have us thinking we're human beings.

/snark:)

so basically the only part that's actually a worthwhile answer to this person's question is: "you shouldn’t obsess over a little peach fuzz. I’ve definitely seen my share of it on models’ faces. The reason you haven’t is because facial hair is pretty much always retouched out of photos." PERIOD.

PS - Is there any actual reason to assume that the person asking the question or the models they refer to must be female? That kind of shit irks me in general.

Wow this makes me angry, though definitely not surprised. The naked hatred for female bodies in women's magazines has stooped to a new low.

Waxing, plucking, threading, etc. all cause hair to grow back thicker, usually darker and often in an irregular-shaped fashion. Electrolysis can scar and some people have a negative reaction to laser.

So major irony, which is more masculinising? Using the razor that a significant portion of women already use everywhere else on their bodies or having thicker, darker facial hair on a potentially rougher,scarred complexion?

Then again what does one expect from the vapid wasteland of fashion magazines.

Ying Chu's answer is just... weird. But the truth is that most young women and girls really don't understand just how much goes into making a model look "perfect." Their "skin always looks so smooth" because some guy or gal with a degree in art and computer graphics spent hours on photoshop airbrushing out her pores and facial hair!

We need more videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HcXeFbU4xk and this (even if it is run by Dove): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcFlxSlOKNI And we can thank Sweden for this one: http://demo.fb.se/e/girlpower/retouch/ Wouldn't it be nice if the U.S. government did something like this once in a while? Or ever?

ellestar- Key word "expensive." You hit the nail on the head. Wonder which particular beauty spa is filling Ms. Chu's coffers? We already know whoever makes Vaniqa or whatever....

On another note, what if I shave my upper lip but then change into a pair of stilettos? Do they cancel each other out?

ellestar- Key word "expensive." You hit the nail on the head. Wonder which particular beauty spa is filling Ms. Chu's coffers? We already know whoever makes Vaniqa or whatever....

On another note, what if I shave my upper lip but then change into a pair of stilettos? Do they cancel each other out?

I find it so disturbing that TAKING DRUGS TO REMOVE HAIR is considering safer for a woman than shaving "like a man"!

Geez, even my (male) partner shaves his underarms in the summer! Because it's cooler and makes me sweat less.

I am afraid to shave my face because of the stubble. But I hardly think it would make anyone more or less of a woman or man.

I am SO mad at this woman and her pathetic attempts to maintain the status quo and pretend that she's protecting women.

I find it so disturbing that TAKING DRUGS TO REMOVE HAIR is considering safer for a woman than shaving "like a man"!

Geez, even my (male) partner shaves his underarms in the summer! Because it's cooler and makes me sweat less.

I am afraid to shave my face because of the stubble. But I hardly think it would make anyone more or less of a woman or man.

I am SO mad at this woman and her pathetic attempts to maintain the status quo and pretend that she's protecting women.

If I felt any psychological issues from having to shave my mustache it had everything to do with my fouled up hormones and the medical establishment that wasn't interested in helping me get them sorted out, not because face shaving is masculine. And since most women who have that level of facial hair could be better served by the medical community, I think that's where we ought to be focusing our attentions, not on some nonsense questions about if we're masculinizing ourselves or what the societal implications of having to shave might be.

I have always wanted to try shaving (plucking is time consuming, waxing and nair both still hurt the day after, and when I've let it grow I inevitably get slammed by some one [trying to get over that]) . Like Danyell, the stubble issue has always stopped me, but I'm wondering if shaving really does cause stubble anymore than my other methods. Any woman out there who's tried it?

I was going to snark, but I can't top UltraMagnus.
I imagine if I ever go postal and shoot someone, I can blame my warped psyche on my dad's Norelco.

I have to shave my facial hair often; it's not peach fuzz, it's freakin' beard hair. I blame feminism. ;)
(Actually I blame it my mother's insistence on Nairing it when I was younger. Not only did I have a horrifically painful, blistery rash for a MONTH, it just grew back DARKER and COURSER than ever. FUCKING NAIR I KILL YOU AAUGH)

By the way, someone told me once that men's razors are cheaper than women's. Is that so?

It kind of has a "silly women, they can get confused at the simplest things so we have to keep everything spelled out for them so they stay in their place!" tone to it? I mean, it's rather condescending and almost reminds me of something you would have heard in the Victorian era.

Well, I've always taken a razor to my upper lip when it starts looking a little dusky....OMG, WAIT! Obviously that's why I'm a lesbian! I wonder if the gay-no-more-ministry folks know about this razor connection?

Does anyone know how I can get off the "bad kids" list? My comments never show up for hours and hours these days. I don't think I broke any rules or anything....

Hi, first time poster, long time reader. I signed up because I had to comment on this. I started having symptoms of Poly-Cystic Ovary Syndrome when I was in middle school, including dark hair growth on my face. When I felt some stray whiskers under my chin, I panicked and shaved it off with a razor. If there was anything "psychologically confusing" about the experience, it wasn't from the shaving--it was from a lifetime of being lied to that women didn't grow body or facial hair. I felt like a freak for seeming to be the exception. As for other "feminine" hair removal methods not being "psychologically confusing," I had a major crisis when I tried electrolysis because it made me feel like I'd be ugly unless I inflicted pain on myself to be "beautiful." Then again, I was an emotional teenager at the time, but it really affected me and still does.

Haha, I actually have a story about this.

When I went to camp in 5th grade, I shaved my upper lip because some girl made fun of my peach fuzz. When I came back home and told my mom, she freaked out and told me I should never do that, and that I should use creams and waxing instead. After finding out that waxing HURTS LIKE HELL and creams made my skin irritated, I just secretly went back to shaving and have had a nice smooth upper lip ever since :)

Good thing I don't shave at all...does that make me hyper-feminine?

Jessica F:
I don't know, it might just mean you're more confused. I mean, I don't shave my legs, so every summer I start thinking I'm a man and even occasionally share my opinion! It's terrifying...

UltraMagnus wins the internets for the snark. Brilliant! :)

Gosh, the only reason I turned to shaving my upper lip was because laser treatments (which hurt like hell) and Nair didn't work! Guess I'm a man now.

Ying Chu said "Face shaving is such a masculine act that it can be psychologically confusing to do as a woman. If you feel like you have excess hair on your face, try waxing, plucking, using depilatories, or laser hair removal. You can also ask your doctor for Vaniqa, a prescription cream that slows hair growth in about four to six weeks. But you shouldn’t obsess over a little peach fuzz."

o_O

Waxing requires letting the coconut fuzz grow in and stay visible for a while first (so the wax has something to cling to), plucking all my coconut fuzz takes too long, depilatories feel caustic, Vaniqua barely worked for me, and lasers don't get all of 'em. After spending all that time and money on other methods, I'm not about to let my boss see my beard just to keep razors out of my routine.

Likewise, if I'd rather keep that fuzz than shave, I'd most likely skip those other methods too.

I shave my upper lip (damn my mother for passing on those Russian genes. I don't need to survive winter in the steppes!). But I'm also a stay-at-home mom who's cooking for a dinner party right now. Does the second save me from the first?

And, incidentally, I've never had a problem with stubble.

If you feel like you have excess hair on your face, try waxing, plucking, using depilatories, or laser hair removal.

Yeah, in other words: do it the more expensive, time consuming, and painful (and I guess, feminine) way!

By the by, I pluck the shit out of my boyfriend's eyebrows all the time.

I tried using an epilator (the thing that looks like an electric shaver but pulls multiple hairs out by the root like waxing) once for about 2 minutes before I actually said out loud "if I use this thing one second longer I can no longer call myself a feminist." It hurt like a motherfucker.

Waxing, plucking, threading, etc. all cause hair to grow back thicker, usually darker and often in an irregular-shaped fashion.

Wrong. It's shaving that does this, and it doesn't actually change the color/texture/amount of your hair, just cuts it off at a blunt angle so it feels rougher, thicker, looks more noticeable, etc. Removing hair by the root makes it grow back at a natural, tapered angle (so it looks thinner and less noticeable) and can actually harm hair follicles, therefore permanently reducing or eliminating hair.

My poor eyebrows, which barely survived a year of rigorous plucking when I was 18 and super smart (yes, every last hair of them - then I drew them on with liquid eyeliner, thankyouverymuch) , can attest to this. They've never fully recovered.

I'm not saying plucking/by-the-root removal it's the way to go, but let's at least be accurate here.

Shaving, waxing, etc, none of it makes your hair grow back faster or thicker. It only seems that way because it all grows back at once.

The only reason waxing might be more preferable to shaving is that you'd have to shave more often, and waxing would last for a month or so. But for gender reasons? Bah!

Gee... I dunno, as a transsexual woman who still needs to shave her upper lip on a regular basis to, say, be accepted by society, I don't find the act of shaving to be the least bit confusing. You know, I actually shave to be more feminine.

Of course, I'm sure to use a pink razor. Just like the pink toothbrush that started all of my gender confusion back in my youth.

She says "you shouldn't obsess over a little peach fuzz", but she recommends using expensive, painful, time-consuming hair removal methods over cheap and easy ones.

Isn't practicality supposed to be a feminine trait?

I'm with Shiftercat on the practicality aspect.

Believe it or not, I actually bought into this line of crap. The hair on my face is a bit beyond "peach fuzz." However, I couldn't bring myself to shave it. It was a form of denial, I suppose. There's quite a stigma attached to being a woman with a five o'clock shadow.

Since shaving was out, I figured I had two options. Either I could spend several hours a week plucking my face (welts and ingrown hairs, Woo! not to mention Ouch!), or I could run away and join the circus.

Finally, I'd had enough and signed up for laser treatment. For those of you that are unfamiliar, the hair does not go away all at once. You need at least six treatments with a window of six to ten weeks in between each one.

While you are between treatments, plucking, waxing, and depilatories are not allowed, either because it will wreck your skin, reduce the laser's efficacy, or both. Your only option, if you want a smooth face is...shaving.

So, after all that, I STILL ended up shaving my face. It freaked me out at first, especially since I had to do it twice a day when I started, but I'm okay with it now. Quite frankly, I've suffered a lot less from shaving than I had from the notion that my hairy face was totally repulsive.

“Wrong. It's shaving that does this, and it doesn't actually change the color/texture/amount of your hair, just cuts it off at a blunt angle so it feels rougher, thicker, looks more noticeable, etc. Removing hair by the root makes it grow back at a natural, tapered angle (so it looks thinner and less noticeable) and can actually harm hair follicles, therefore permanently reducing or eliminating hair.”

I shave and I never notice that the hair on my face grows back “rougher, thicker, or more noticeable”. If that were the case, wouldn’t this mean that every time I shave, my facial hair will become rougher, thicker and more noticeable, and that considering I shave once every other day, by the end of my life, I will have a black strong brillo pad on my face? ( Look ma, no hands!) I guess it would depend on the individual person and their facial hair…

I know a guy who DOES indeed pluck out his facial hair….hair by hair! It takes him 30-45 minutes…..he suggested that I give it a try, saying that “once you pluck, you cant go back!”…..but I declined. I can’t imagine taking that much time when shaving does the same thing in less than 5 minutes!

Regarding this whole issue of women shaving….I would think there would be a STRONG incentive for women to shave….doesn’t it always state that shaving (facial hair) actually exfoliates, thus removing dead skin cells and making men look younger (since they do it everyday, or almost everyday). Wouldn’t this be then a huge incentive for women to take up shaving their facial hair?

While laser hair removal has worked on the darker facial hair I have, I still have some substantially thick blonde hairs that laser removal does not work on. So I shave.

I've been shaving my face since I was in jr. high. The stubble's not too bad, but I do have to shave every day, which is about three times as often as my husband, or risk growing a Shaggy (from Scooby Doo)-like goatee.

But, I really don't think it's psychologically confused me in any way. Trying to be an autonomous woman in this culture, however...

Wow. I am such a man. I shave nothing but my head and crotch. I also piss standing. I find it all quite liberating. Or, maybe I'm just THAT confused. @_@

I tried Jolene Creme Bleach, and it doesn't work very well. Ditto depilatories. I had electrolysis on my monobrow in high school and it hurts like hell, and I can't imagine waxing being any better. Shaving is the only thing that keeps me from having a goatee.

OTOH, if Ying Chu is willing to *pay* for me to have laser treatment....

Right. Psychologically confusing. The only reason I wouldn't recommend shaving is because I get ingrown hairs, which are painful enough as it is, and running a razor of them would be like torture...

So I tweeze, and wax. Neither of which is that painful, usually.

It's the same bat shit 'you must be feminine at all times' beauty advice. However, there were a couple redeeming lines at the end. Anyway, waxing/plucking can be more preferable to shaving anyway. Only if you have some extreme facial hair should you consider medicine (and even then, don't e-mail Marie Claire. Go to a dermatologist to see if you really have a problem or if you really need the medicine).

personally, her statement is so ridiculous and trivial that i don't see the point in giving it attention.

Can I just say... reading this thread and seeing how many women have facial hair makes me feel so much better about my own. I'm not a freak or an abnormal woman!

Hmmm.... maybe I should try shaving.

timothynakayama
Shaving doesn't make your hair magically thicker or darker, what it does is makes it non-tapered so it appears to be thicker and darker. Instead of cone shaped hairs, you get rod shaped hairs after you shave, so the ends are actually thicker than the ends of the pre-shave hair and they are much easier to see. (Thus there is a limit to how thick and bristly your hair will grow back after you start shaving it.)

Has anyone yet written to Marie Claire to complain about Ms. Chu's response?

I tweeze the really thick, difficult hairs, then I shave the rest. I'm lazy, and it leaves a nice, smooth result on me.

I have a skin condition, and I was suffering from giant flakes of dead skin hanging in the "fuzz" on my face. So, I shaved it off. Well, I shaved it from the sides of my face. I could pluck the forehead hairs easily, so I plucked those.

My face did not become confused by this combination of plucking and shaving.

And there was no stubble. But I imagine that if your facial hair is more than just the opaque fuzz, you might have some. I have two chin hairs that I pluck and pluck and pluck and which keep coming back. When they grow back in, they do feel more like real stubble. (And I'd like to thank my mom, because she has the exact same two chin hairs. THX MUM!)

We came close to having a woman as our next President, so if her mind can't even manage her own facial hair, then this country is in major trouble.

I wonder if this beauty editor has anything to say about what to do with the hair down there. This is just too hilarious.

Hmm...

I have always had really dark hair on my arms, courtesy of my Croatian heritage. Yay! It can grow to 3cm if I don't remove it for a few months, and is quite the spectacle. I have tried all the usual hair removal methods, and find shaving to be the most agreeable at this point in time, although it can make my skin a bit dry and itchy.

Curiously, I'm the only woman in my extended family who's been blessed with hairy monkey arms, but I've never felt psychologically damaged from shaving any part of my body (including my upper lip and sideburns, which I stopped doing because I find the complete absence of hair on my face feels creepy).

I'm in agreement with Geobqn when I say I felt more psychological pain from my high school belief that 'real' women are born hairless, and that my excess hair somehow meant I was less womanly. And in my mind, that was bad. Oh, and my best friend used to call me "hedgehog arms" due to the prickly stubble. But I've long since forgiven her :)

As agreeable as shaving is on my arms and plucking is on my face at this point in time, I would much rather avoid both, but still wish to reduce my hairy-ness, so I am really looking forward to the day when I can afford IPL.

When I was little, after I was done brushing my teeth I would slather the toothpaste foam all over my jaw and "shave" it off with my toothbrush.
... I did a lot of weird things as a kid.

As someone who has shaved his face for over 26 years, I can tell you from personal experience that shaving facial hair makes it grow back thicker, but neater-looking since it's all one length. Were it not for the the fact that I look better with a thick black beard (at least I think so), I would go for the waxing, creams, etc rather than shaving.

I wax/tweeze my eyebrows, when I can be bothered at all. That being said, it's because I shy away from the idea of a RAZOR near my EYES, not because I fear gender confusion.

Good to know, however, that we women are so easily swayed by outside forces that if we shave our faces we might think we're men!

Now that I think of it...we've all heard the phrase "getting in touch with your feminine side" used on guys...why is there no equivalent "getting in touch with your masculine side" for the women?

First, I'm confused by the term "peach fuzz." I've always used it to describe the fine layer of hair that pretty much covers the entire body. Is this meant to say that I should be getting rid of every last bit of external hair anywhere?
Second, if you want to shave, go for it. It's more psychologically damaging to be rediculed for being "unfeminine" than it is to simply shave it off.

I'm concerned that anyone would think they have to look like the models in the magazines. Even the models themselves don't look like their own picture in magazines.

Marteani, I don't bother with any of my peach fuzz, but I do occasionally cut off a few long, dark hairs that like to grow on my chin.

I could kind of see where she was coming from, if she were saying "Why is my body hair considered unattractive?" (This, despite me being one of those guys who thinks that not only women but men are more attractive with little or no body hair, and this despite me being a very hairy guy. I dunno; maybe it's sexual--licking is much more fun when there's less chance of hair...) Of course, it's Marie Claire. If you want to see conventional beauty standards changed, don't read MC.

Anyway. Her actual "reasoning" just seems to insult women's intelligence. Women are so intellectually frail that shaving "like a man" would cause confusion? WTF?

I wax my upper lip and tweeze my eyebrows.

I'm not going to shave my eyebrows because 1) you don't have as much conrol over which individual hairs you get and 2) as someone else said, putting a razor that close to my eyeball isn't my idea of a good time.

As for my upper lip, you don't have to wax nearly as often as you have to shave, so it's pretty much laziness. It hurts for like 10 minutes and then I don't have to think about it for at least a month.

But if I thought shaving were the better option for me, I'd do it. My psychological damage comes from elsewhere.

Actually, I can kind of see her point. I actually feel less feminine/attractive/good about myself when I shave my legs and armpits. It makes me feel like I have to modify myself to be womanly. (I know this doesn't make sense but it's the way I feel) I could see why shaving ones face could make someone feel less feminine. I don't know why plucking and such is better, maybe because the whole hair is gone including the root so it's easier to pretend it's natural?

Anyway, I get over it and shave my legs and armpits sometimes (cause I hate drawing attention to myself. My guess is that it could bother some women but I doubt it would cause any long term problems and hair always grows back anyway.

I'm a transsexual woman , and well, being that I can not yet even come close to affording laser hair removal on my face[ $1,500 to $4,100 depending on the place]; I still gotta shave though it's a pain. 2 years of HRT[ estradiol+ androgen blocker] seem to have taken care of the legs, which I shave, but not the face completely. anyway, marie claire? one of those magazines which tells you to starve yourself for a " nice" figure, do whatever it takes to be "feminine", much like real simple, in style, AHEM! at fairfield county pride, I was talking to this[biological] lesbian woman, an attractive[ to me, anyway ] " tom-boi" and noticed all her body hair on her arms; something which I thought was cute and so very REAL woman; to be honest. she seemed smart, savvy, just a real killer kewl gal and so real;traits which , perhaps, are what is really important in any woman so much more then all these media-promoted, artificial standards of beauty! myself, despite that shadow, I still shave both my legs and armpits, well as tweeze the brows and wear lipstick, mascara, eyeliner/shadow. maybe because I had to live a lie as the other gender for too long! as far as the standing to pee thing? to that , I say NO THANKS! even though I'm pre-op still [unfortunately-as it makes being a lesbian harder!], I don't mind sitting down in the womyn's room [ or squatting outside]. but I know some butch women whom stand to pee and shave their heads, which is cool and a matter of personal choice- just like makeup+ long, feminine hair is for me! It did not take me long to learn that most women's magazines[ except MS and Bitch] seem to good for little more than making women feel like shit about their bodies!

As an eighteen-year-old who not only has to shave her mustache every couple weeks but is also sprouting a few beard hairs, I must admit that I've never really been confused in the process. The closest I've come to being psychologically damaged by having a shaved face was my annoyance when, while I had short hair, my hairdresser kept buzzing off my sideburns, which left an irritating, semi-visible little line on my cheek where the fuzz ended.

"When I was little, after I was done brushing my teeth I would slather the toothpaste foam all over my jaw and "shave" it off with my toothbrush.
... I did a lot of weird things as a kid."

i did very similar things, but usually i would use my dad's shaving cream and "shave" my face using a finger or two. i also found some rather ...interesting ways to pee successfully standing up.

"I'm wondering if shaving really does cause stubble anymore than my other methods. Any woman out there who's tried it?"

I've been shaving my upper lip since I was 11. It's not just peach fuzz -- I could grow a charming black mustache that would rival any 14 year old boy's. When I entered my early 20's, my chin decided to join the party.

I've tried waxing, but to be honest I just can't wait for the hair to grow long enough to be waxed again. I get impatient and shave it off. I have had no problems with shaving, anyway. It's cheap, reliable, and if people go snooping in my medicine cabinet they'll assume the razors and shaving cream belong to my husband. I've never told anyone in real life about it aside from him and my sister (who shares the affliction).

I wish I could be as confident as Frida Kahlo and just let the mustache grow. I've heard that she thought it made her look dignified. If I let my facial hair go, I can guarantee that "dignified" would not be a word used to describe me by other people. "Dirty," "lazy," etc. would be more like it. That is more psychologically damaging than shaving my damn face. I can't appear exactly as I am without negative reactions.