I've known ppl in the Icarus Project, and they seem pretty awesome!

I'd never heard of it until now, but I think it's awesome. I majored in psych in college (the first time around, ha) plus I've struggled with depression. The stigma surrounding mental illness is one that has always pissed me off. Just like how you can't help it if you are born predisposed for physical illnesses, you can't help being born predisposed for mental illnesses.

I am in the middle on the nature/nurture argument when it comes to disorders. I believe there is a predisposition that may or may not surface without a trigger. I think my depression came from both the fact that several other members of my family have had it AND some negative stuff that has happened in my life.

I had no idea that there is an organized movement of people attempting to increase dialogue and decrease the many, many deep stigmas associated with mental health; after being hospitalized for my struggle with self-injury and the varying reactions and biases and fears I've encountered in the world while trying to recover, I created several short documentary films about my experiences with my mental illness. One of the films is being used to train psychologists who work with self-injurers and I'm really proud to have created something that is useful and has gotten some people talking. (Shameless self-promotion if anyone is iterested: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2246772361235777362&hl=en )

This article is so exciting to me because I'd really felt like I was sort of... not really in it alone, but in it with a lot of individual people -- it's freaking fantastic to find that there is something of an organized momentum around de-stigmatizing mental illness. Thanks Vanessa for sharing this! It's also great to see mental health being talked about in a feminist context.

I know this has been pointed out before about the NYT. Why is this article in the Style section, and not the Health section? Because the main subjects of the article are women?

Wow, I had no idea this movement existed! It really hits home for me right now; I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and I am on medical leave from school after being hospitalized. I really feel the struggle that is discussed in the argument. Sometimes I understand that the disorder is an illness that is part of me and needs treatment like a physical ailment. Other times I feel that the medication I take is suppressing some of the best parts of me (although admittedly I have yet to settle on a medication I feel is right for me). It's very confusing; I wonder if the movement is going to fragment into two (or several) different viewpoints because of this conflict.

I'm heartened to hear there is a dialogue being started, so that I can feel safer in discussing my personal experiences of multiple psych wards and constant barrages of medications, without worrying I'll be stigmatized because of it. I've learned to keep these things to myself, if not for my own comfort, but for what I perceived was the necessary comfort of others. Now maybe myself and the millions of others like me can stop censuring our lives for the sole benefit of our uninformed peers.

kirjava,
Great film!

Hilary, I was JUST about to point out that was put in Fashion & Style!! Seriously, WTF? Since when is mental health a FASHION issue?!

I only recently became aware of bi-polarism from a philosophy class (of all the places!). The Prof said she had a friend who had bi-polarism and had trouble processing stimulus and would come to a dead stop in ornately decorated hotel lobbys because it took her longer to absorb the environment. I never knew that side effect of the illness. I do hope the more bloggers like spikol continue to document their day-to-day experiences it will put more of a human light on these often indifferent attitudes about mental illness that is often expressed by the mental establishment.

The stigma of mental illness to my parents was amplified because they come from a traditional Korean background. Said stigma also prevented them from getting me help until there was an incident involving violence and the police. I'm glad that now at least there is something like Mad Pride.

hey all, i think the nyt does cross reference this article in its health section in some way - I only know because i work on a health website that uses their RSS feeds on health topics, and i saw the article on that. kinda troubling that the main 'home' for the article is in the style category though...

Liz Spikol is a local treasure here in Philadelphia... it's nice to see a wider audience catching on.

oh my gosh. I am so like this woman it is unbelievable. I am so glad to see this posted.

I was diagnosed bipolar 2 years ago this June, and the stigma I felt against myself at first was unbearable. But the realization of the effect it can have on those around me is staggering. I've been struggling with decisions as I look for a job about who to come out to about my illness and who to hide it from. I wish the stigma could be lifted from disabilities both visible and hidden, but it's a long road and I'm so glad to see others address it. No matter how accepting I can become of myself as someone with a disorder, when I consider it as something that could be discriminated against for or that needs to be addressed, I huddle in "not-me" land hiding under umbrellas of "blaming myself" from "it's not that bad" storms.

If anyone is interested, I did find recently a small blog about a woman with bipolar who I've really related to but haven't gotten up the courage to comment on or anything yet. She's still new I guess because her promises to post her hospital journals hasn't been fulfilled yet.
http://auntielucid.blogspot.com/

Kristin Hersh's autobiographical show, Paradoxical Undressing. If you get a chance to see it, do. I don't know if Mad Pride know about her, but that show is incredible.

This video feat. Spikol giving some background about herself and bipolar disorder. She mentions that it began when she was raped when she was 17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w0Ag2c4Oo8&feature=related

Thanks for posting this! I'd never heard of Liz Spikol. I only wish I could have shared this with my friend Stephen, who killed himself two months ago. He would have gone gaga for Liz and her irreverent humor. I think the Mad Pride movement could save lives.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to troll here. I kind of had a problem with this article, and want to know what other people think. I mean no disrespect to anyone with or without mental illness.

That said, here's my problem: If mental illnesses are just that - illnesses - then we should provide appropriate help. When I was on crutches, I had a lecture moved to a classroom that was handicapped accessible. When I needed surgery, I asked for an extension on homework and expected that my boss would understand my absence from work.

But if mental illnesses (or certain ones) make people different, not disabled, why do those people need to be accommodated?

I agree that the stigma shouldn't be there. I've had to use a wheelchair (without a cast or any other sign of what was wrong), and people in stores spoke to me as if I were an idiot. I hate that, and I think people with mental illness should be able to talk about their conditions openly.

But it seems to me that people want it both ways: accommodation and understanding for an illness, and respect for what is simply a difference. That is challenging for me.

DT: I'll try to respond to your comments...

"But if mental illnesses (or certain ones) make people different, not disabled, why do those people need to be accommodated?"

There is a section of the disability movement for people with mental health issues. First, how do you define "accomodation"? Why not accomodate people with a mental illness when we accomodate other people with varying forms of physical illness? More than ever we need to educate people that having schizophrenia or bipolar disorder does not make someone "crazy". I suffer from PTSD and anxiety issues and I cannot tell you how many times I have read in the news or heard someone make comments that people with PTSD are crazy or unstable. I don't like John McCain, but if I read another article where they stigmatize him for most likely having PTSD after his years as a POW...I will scream.

I think that accomodation and understanding and respect for differences are all interconnected. If people start to understand the nuances of mental health issues and that people with mental health issues (though I hate using the word "issues") deserve respect and not to be stigmatized because often, even with medication, some mental problems do not go away or cannot be controlled. In those cases, and in any case, they deserve some accomodation and respect even if they are "different". I don't like the implication that you don't think we should respect those who are "different" because it sounds much like a "me vs. them" instance.

Excuse my stream-of-conscious rambling...but I do take some offense to your implications and hope you will clarify.

This is the first I've heard of this movement, but it sounds fantastic. Best line ever: "I use drugs to control my super powers."

Good to see this! Yeah, lots of irksome problems with that article and I spent all day yesterday compiling and writing about it here:

http://writhesafely.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/about-sundays-ny-times-piece-on-mad-pride/

There's some history in there (Mad Pride was a punk rock phenom) and a bit of an internal critique concerning identity politics, but it ends with a poem by Anne Sexton so I'm hoping there's something for everyone.

Thanks again Feministing for throwing a shout out to the mad ones.

somewhat tangential but--
wow.
i don't think i've ever seen a person pack a greater density of facial expressions into a millisecond of time before. her face is throwing off so much information--just in her expressions alone--that you'd need an ethernet connection to carry it all.

what's the opposite of dead-pan?

it's probably not connected to her condition. but then again--is she just living five times as fast as the rest of us?

But if mental illnesses (or certain ones) make people different, not disabled, why do those people need to be accommodated?

Why *shouldn't* we accommodate people with a different constellation of abilities?

Let's say, hypothetically, that there are humans who see by sonar. (Actually there are a very, very few number of these, blind people who use clicks, but I'm talking science fiction. bat people.) These humans might not be able to drive because the speed of cars is such that their sonar breaks down. On the other hand, their hearing would be excellent and they might be able to process multiple conversations at once *while* using sonar to navigate a crowded room. This would be a person with different abilities, who can do some things better than a normal person, but some things not as well. Would they deserve no accomodation just because they have a "different" ability?

Or, to take it back to real life, my husband is an albino. His night vision is better than mine. One time we climbed a hill in the woods at night, and he had to lead me because I couldn't see. However, 90% of the time, it's he who can't see and I who has to lead him. Because he is oversensitive to light and because light damage to his retina in infancy caused poor vision that can't be corrected with glasses, my husband has a disability. But in near-total darkness his vision is better than mine. Does that mean his day-blindness shouldn't be accommodated?

The concept that someone has "different" abilities doesn't mean that they don't have disabilities, it means they have corresponding hyperabilities to balance out their disabilities. There are things everyone can do that they can't, and things they can do that no one else can. For the things they cannot do, they should be accomodated. For the things they can do, well, those superabilities are so rare that we automatically offer all humans accommodations that these guys don't need, but hey, the use of their superabilities may allow them to excel in some area and be successful in life. That doesn't mean they don't need accommodations. My husband is a highly skilled programmer who makes a lot of money, but that doesn't change the fact that he can't drive. Companies he worked for that moved their headquarters to a location that can only be reached by car have, essentially, screwed him out of a job and themselves out of a valuable employee.

I would say, for instance, that a person who has bipolar disorder might be a fantastically productive employee on the upswing toward mania, but will probably be lackluster in the depressive phase, and in full-blown mania might be hard to deal with. Such people have actually held jobs where they've done very important things. I believe Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill both had bipolar disorder. For the sake of the value they bring while they're having their good days, their bad days should be tolerated and accommodated. That doesn't imply that they never have good days or that they can never pull off things normal people can't do, but when things are bad for them, help them out.

(Perhaps it's my background with science fiction and aliens with different strengths and weaknesses talking here, but doesn't this seem obvious? I mean, Vulcans are incredibly smart and strong, but vulnerable to high-pitched loud noises, dying if they don't get sex from their spouses on time, and you'd better have a vegan diet to feed them or they'll get weird. Newcomers are smarter and stronger than ordinary humans but don't ask them to work on a fishing boat or take a company-paid sea cruise. We have already speculated on what accommodations we might need to make for aliens who are better than us at some things but have weaknesses we don't; why can't we extrapolate this to humans who have unusual constellations of weakness and strength?)

Wow, thank you so much for posting this Vanessa. I had a friend I used to talk about this sort of stuff with who really understood where I was coming from, but I fell out of touch with her a while ago.

I find it so amazing that people don't realise that the enormous stigma placed on mental illness makes it so hard to come forward and to get the help you need- and that this stigma also leads people providing that help to not understand their patience. Accepting that someone with a mental disorder can't be cured just by telling them your honest assessment of why you think their judgements or decisions are impaired is the first step.

Accepting the value of people as human beings and realising that the process is about giving them control over their impulses is the important thing. Judging someone's actions under that kind of framework is unhelpful because they don't know how to not do what they're doing.

There's also the sense that "cope with" is a much better word for what you're aiming for with most mental illnesses rather than "cure". The self-doubt, the paralyzing anxiety, the noise that keeps you from hearing yourself in your own head- it doesn't just go away like nothing's ever happened. But you learn to act despite it when you need to. But you can learn to channel it into things and do them better than someone who's not "crazy". But you can approach things from completely unconventional points of view that sometimes turn out to be beautifully right. And people who cope with that are truly something beautiful.

Excuse me, I think I need to go have a good cry over this- something I didn't exactly expect to be saying when I woke up. Thanks again Vanessa. :)

Mental disorders aren't just about not being neurotypical. Mad Pride and similar self help and advocacy groups are concerned with the population that fills the psych wards that you hear the least about. The majority of those denoted as severe and persistent mentally ill are poor, black, and women. Eighty percent of us have trauma histories, coded in newspeak as mental illness.

I don't know what accommodations we're talking about here, most of us are in a constant fight for the civil and human rights most Americans take for granted. It's true!

"Mental disorders aren't just about not being neurotypical. Mad Pride and similar self help and advocacy groups are concerned with the population that fills the psych wards that you hear the least about. The majority of those denoted as severe and persistent mentally ill are poor, black, and women. Eighty percent of us have trauma histories, coded in newspeak as mental illness."

Your post reminds me of what happened to Amina Mudey. I learned about how badly she was treated in a recent series in The Washington Post: "Careless Detention : Medical Treatment of Immigrants" http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/specials/immigration/index.html Today's article is on mental health: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051202948.html

Xana - I'm sorry that you were offended by the implications of my post. Since you don't say which implications offended you, it's hard for me to address that directly.

I was also diagnosed with PTSD. In my case, the main symptom was insomnia. I would go days without sleep, and it was awful. That qualifies as a disability, but not something to celebrate. My friends were amazed that I could function on so little rest, but I would hardly call it a superpower. I'm all for ACCEPTANCE of PTSD. I'm all for understanding.

But pride? If it's something to be proud of, why should we try to prevent it from happening to soldiers? Why are we researching how to cure it?

I would be very sad if any of my friends were diagnosed with a serious mental illness, just as I would be if they were diagnosed with a serious physical illness. If that's offensive, you'll have to explain why.

Alara - your post was fun to read. I guess I should clarify - it's clear that people can have conditions that leave them with strengths in one area and weaknesses in others. I think that applies, to some degree, to all of us. I think that the difference is that your hypothetical bat people wouldn't be trying to get rid of their condition. Your tax dollars wouldn't be going towards research for the elimination of bat-hearing (or maybe it would? That could be a sci-fi novel in itself).

There's a difference between acceptance and pride. I think (hope?) that something can lose it's stigma without needing to be elevated to he status of a superpower.

To me, this is a little bit like the concept that everything that a feminist does has to be a feminist statement. I'm proud of my accomplishments and comfortable with myself. That doesn't mean that I need to be proud of my illnesses. I can just be accepting of them and proud of myself when I overcome them.

Sorry for the crazy long post...

DT- the superpower metaphor is one I've come accross before, and I've never seen it intended as anything but a humourous joke. That said, the other people I know with mental disorders are all very well-adjusted about it, so...

I think the real issue is that some mental illnesses are not exactly analogous to physical illnesses that can be "cured", and more like some sort of genetic vulnerability to certain diseases that grants immunity to others. A little pride among people who learn to properly cope with those vulnerabilities doesn't seem controversial to me.

DT: It seemed that you were implying that those of us with mental illness should be able to "get better" like someone who sprained their ankle and had to use crutches. It's never that easy when we're dealing with the brain.

As Ari stated, many mental illnesses cannot be cured like setting a broken bone or getting over the flu. I see nothing wrong with taking pride in an illness, which is much better than the alternative...feeling ashamed or being shamed for having any sort of mental health issue. It has nothing to do with "superpowers" and everything to do with NOT feeling ashamed of what may be the result of genetics or events in our lives that created certain conditions where mental issues came forth.

@ kid bitzer: "it's probably not connected to her condition. but then again--is she just living five times as fast as the rest of us?" it actually could be connected to her condition. I'm bipolar, and when I'm in a manic stage it often does feel like I'm thinking and living (and some say I speak) five times as fast as other times.

Xana - I do think that mental illnesses can be cured. It's not quite like setting a broken bone, but there are plenty of cases where orthopedic problems are chronic, hard to diagnose, and hard to understand. If mental illnesses can't be treated, then why do people try so hard to get treated?

This reminds me a little of the debate over the inclusion of homosexuality as a mental illness. Obviously it isn't one, it's simply a sexual preference; but back in the day, people thought that it was "deviant behavior" and something to be medicated.

I think that gay people should be accommodated in the sense of gay marriage, civil liberties, etc. But I would be horrified if my tax money was being used to fund research to make people less gay.

My problem with the whole mad pride thing, as opposed to gay pride, is that we're funding research to cure mental illness. Get rid of it.

I have a good friend who suffers from depression. I really, really wish that researchers could develop a medication that would help her more than her current one does. To me, it seems intellectually dishonest to support research for a cure for depression AND to promote depression pride. Does that make sense?

(Disclaimer: the comparison of mad and gay is just to discuss two things that were once considered mental illnesses and are now associated with the word pride. I'm not calling gay people mad or mad people gay.)

Welcome to the Liz Spikol fan/girlcrush club! It's so great to see her suddenly getting national attention - I think she's one of the clearest, most engaging voices in the mental health movement. Meg - just to respond to your comments about offering accomodations for people with "mental illness", the point is really that so-called mental illnesses are totally different from a broken leg, or a chronic illness. Personally, I think 95% of "mental illness" is just discomfort/intolerance over whatever is deemed socially unacceptable in a cultural moment. Think about all the women diagnosed with "hysteria", and unfairly imprisoned in sanatariums (hello Mary Todd Lincoln!) - do you think they were all crazy? It's easy enough to tell if someone needs a cast on their leg, but really, who's to say that one person is more mentally healthy than another person? It gets pretty gestapo once you start thinking about it.

DT - this is the part where I feel offended as well. I will never be "cured" of bipolar disorder. The reason I "try so hard to get treatment" and the reason that myself and others with mental illnesses need support and understanding is because for many of us, treatment can last a lifetime. It will not be cured, but we need to find ways to live WITH the disorder.

Mad Pride is not about "oh, how cool, I have a mental condition!" it's not "pride" in the sense that people want to have mental disorders. It's pride in ourselves as individuals for living with a disease and for dealing with it. It's the creation of a community that can help support others like ourselves so that we don't feel alone. If you thought you were the only person to suffer from PTSD you might feel a whole lot more helpless than if you knew you could be a part of a community of people that included others who not only live with PTSD but have found ways to make their lives better even while struggling with the disorder. The Mad Pride community is one that is meant to connect and share treatment options and ideas.

The other purpose for using a word like "pride" is that it is the other end of the extreme. Rather than being embarrassed, ashamed, scared, etc, we should be encouraged to be open about our issues and our differences in order to erase stigmas and help one another. THAT is what is meant by Mad PRIDE.

I don't need to be feel literal pride when I say I have bipolar disorder, but I do need to not feel ashamed. I've accomplished a lot while dealing with some really difficult mental issues that people without this disease don't ever have to think about. I'm proud of that.

For example, I had an internship over the last summer, and I excelled. I didn't tell my superior about my condition until the end of my time there, and she was surprised. If I had told her earlier, she may not have trusted me with as much responsibility as I could really handle. She may have patronized and discriminated against me without even knowing it. I had only told some coworkers. One was another intern. As soon as she knew (and I was clear it was not to be shared with others) she blamed me for a mistake she had made, and suggested it may be because I had mental issues. Luckily, the person she said this to already knew about my condition and she told me what had happened right away. That sort of lack of understanding and lack of trust and respect is exactly what people with mental conditions fear, and it's discrimination based on abilities.

I sincerely hope this helps you understand, DT.

basically, Mad Pride = it is not up to you to tell me I can't feel pride in who I am because I have a mental disorder. You cannot tell me what I can and cannot do. I am not defined by that one aspect of my identity, but I am proud of it because it is part of who I am.

DT it's what been said. Do I think my bipolar disorder can be cured right now? Nope. There is no cure. Do I want one? Hell yeah!

But I also want to not have to feel worried about telling someone that I have bipolar disorder because of the stigma. A couple of years a go a college football player started acting erratic and it was in the news, his parents released that he had a very severe case of lyme disease tha went undiagnosed. There was speculation about drug addiction or mental illness. An editorial was printed in the paper where the writer said that he'd be better off, his life would be better , if he was a drug addict than if he had a mental illness.

People treat you different. It's hard to talk about because of the stigma.

If I had MS or diabetes or CP or heart disease, or any other numereous illnesses I wouldn't be made to feel ashamed to say it. Look at the media, watch the way people talk, the stigma against mental illness is soo pervasive. It's every where and no one even thinks about certain thigns.

It's being worried that if someone finds out they won't want to hire you or even be friends with you.

That sucks. It sucks to live with that.

It's part of me. I can't change it, I can control, but I can't get rid of it. And I shouldn't have to be so damn ashamed of it.