Patriarchal property transference. It's time to end it.

When I got married and the dj at our wedding found out that I was keeping my name, he thought he would tell us a horror story of a man who took his wife's name and then got a divorce two months later. That was the horror: he was stuck with her name.

Imagine the devastation. We women wouldn't understand something like that. Oh, wait, you mean women have been experiencing the same thing for years? But it's different; we don't experience the emasculation of it all.

The guy also left my mother out of the announcements during the reception. Winner!

my parents got married in the late 70s. My mom (an MD) kept her last name (all her prof certifications were under that name). The family story goes that at some point my father (a proud feminist) asked her whether she intended on changing her name. Her response: 'no. are you?'

It's cool having kick-ass feminist parents.

You know, if I were that PA kid, I'd be just the kind of jerk to reach 18, go to court and legally change my name to Peacock-Hernandez just to piss off that asshole dad.

But, that's just me.

I always wondered when I would hear about something like this! I'm engaged and plan on keeping my last name. I would just think that I would be less "me" if I changed it. And my mom is stuck with a last name of a total jerkwad, so I think seeing her go through that experience kind of turned me off. You never know what things will be like in 5-10 years.

I didn't know anyone anywhere would have a problem with hyphenating last names for their children. I know tonnes of people with hyphenated last names! I think it's way more appropriate since it takes two people to make and raise a child.

My husband and I went with my last name (after being guilt tripped into getting hitched-long story), it was really easy for us- the strange thing is that we live in Idaho! You'd think they'd give us grief, being so conservative. Reading this story, I feel pretty damn lucky it was easy- I had no idea it wasn't easy in other states.

Wow, that surprises me. I considered taking my wife's name, and it never occurred to me that it could be a problem legally. Kind of makes me wish I did it, now!

When my parents divorced at 13, in PA, we changed my name from my father's to a hyphonated form. The court was fine with it. Of course, my father didn't protest (he wasn't happy but told me it was my decision... to be fair, looking back, the decision was strongly influenced by my attachment to my mother and her desire for me to change my name.) It all worked out, cause I like my hyphonated name and don't intend on changing it even with marriage (well, unless he is willing to change his, then I guess I'd be open to discussion if it was important to him for us to have the same last name)...

Manifestadestiny- right on. And I would have clubbed the DJ. Or maybe just not tipped him. ☺

I don’t think the entirety of the complications came from the gov’t attempting to enforce traditional patriarchal standards, though. The fact is that most people still do things the “traditional� way. I definitely think the path to these kinds of choices should not be impeded by the gov’t, and that this case is paving the way. Which is freakin sweet.

On the other side of the issue, I think this is a personal decision. My feminist conflictions always leave me a little confused here, though.

If I asked my husband to change his name, wouldn’t that just be changing from one man’s name to another man’s name? Or does the importance of the name come from the person with whom you are creating a union. In this case, however, the dude said he was closer to his wife’s FATHER rather than his own father, and that’s why he wanted her name. He has every right to change his name to his wife’s, but it’s all about the patriarchy again.

I love my last name, but I'm not exactly a fan of my dad. The reason I intend to keep it is because it's mine and I own it, but what about my hypothetical children? My mom changed her name back when she got divorced and asked me to change mine to hers (which was for her own selfish reasons- i.e. please don't love your father- so I declined). No matter what I decide, I still have some man’s last name, even if I hyphenate or if I had chosen my mother’s- it’s my grandfather’s last name, and so on. So what to do for my kids? At the end of the day I want something fair for them, and fair for myself and whomever I choose to reproduce with. And it would be nice to shirk patriarchal norms along the way. Do you see the maddening circle I have myself running?

I would have been happy to have my husband take my last name when we married, but he wasn't into it. So, we each kept our own.

Also, whose last name would they use in DC when a single woman has a child? I hope there aren't attempts to use the father's name in that case. And whatever do they do when lesbians have children?? Sperm donor's last name?

Why is it no one refers to these retro-normative judges as "activist judges?" It sure seems like they are bending the law to their own personal agendas.

T-Monster, yes, your last name will trace back to a man's (father, grandfather, etc.) but you have to start somewhere, and the majority of us come from a patrilineal naming tradition.

I would like to think that I have an open mind about the take-his-name-or-not-or-hyphenate issue, but I don't. I lose a tiny bit of respect for any friend who takes her husband's name.

I have a really long and complicated last name. I remember comments when I was young about how I probably couldn't wait to get married to not have to spell it out every time I met someone new. They were idiots.

I love my name. It's mine. I kind of feel like it was the first thing I was given in this world and I love how unique it is. When I look up my publications, I don't have to wade through any other authors with the same (or even similar) last names. I just love it. It's a part of who I am.

The first time I told my boyfriend what my last name was, I joked, "And if we get married, I'm not changing it!"

We're getting married in September and I'm going to stay true to my word.

I don't love him any less because I don't want his name and I don't think he loves me any less for not taking mine (though I said it would be cool if he wanted it). However, if people want to change their names as an expression of love for their partner I say go for it! None of this bullshit of women can do it easier because that's tradition, blah, blah blah. That's great for women, but it isn't really fair.

Hm, this just seems strange to me.

Years ago, I was a bridesmaid at a friend's wedding, and the husband took her last name and no one even blinked, looked twice or otherwise made any kind of deal about it, big or small, legally or otherwise. It just Was Not A Big Deal.

I wonder if it has to do with the "American Way" (I live in Canada) which I am finding seems to be more and more oppressive the more I read about stuff like this.

I'm not saying Canada is perfect (far from it!) but a lot of the issues I read about on Feministing simply aren't a problem where I live. *shrug* Maybe some of you should consider moving on up here! ;)

That is just all so absurd. My boyfriend and I are going to adopt kids, and they are going to have my last name. We decided this because I am closer to my heritage then he is, and they will get quite a lot of pride from it. Who is some court to tell me what kids can and can not be named? For that matter who are they tell me what I can and can not be named? I'm not property of the government.

I live in Quebec and here there is a civil law dating back to 1981 that says that women cannot take their husbands last name. Apparently it is in the name of equality. And I agree that women shouldn't be forced to take their husbands name, but they should have the right to choose. I guess my definition of equality is different from my feminist foremothers.
Here's a link to an article about this law: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=fc11876a-804c-40cd-9d9f-6825268d4937&k=54069

I'm keeping my last name for three reasons:

1. My last name is really cool (no joke, I'm a substitute teacher and every day kids are like, wow, that's a really cool name)
2. My first name sounds ridiculous with my boyfriend's last name (brittany boulton anyone? I already get britney spears' jokes, I do not need to add on michael bolton jokes, and I'm not a freakin superhero).
3. I'm really close to my family unit. We are the ____s. I like being a _____ and I can't see any reason to change it.

Of course, the issue is children. I don't really care that they have my last name, he really does care that they have his last name ("It continues the lineage" "uh...you already have a neice and nephew continuing your lineage").

I'm only resistant because everyone assumes that's what's going to happen. "You're keeping your last name? Oh, so the kids will have his?" and THEN I find myself caring all of a sudden.

I assume this is all going to get 10xs more complicated if we adopt... Why is a name so important from creating a family unit? My boyfriend doesn't mind that I'm keeping my own name, but he does point out we'll never be able to send our cards from the ______s. Oddly enough, we had just sent out mother's day cards which just came from our first names....

I'm currently in the middle of the normal name change process, (In other words, not involving a marriage.) and it has been pretty much exactly the same as they describe his name change in the article, months of frustration and a mountain of fees. So, I think it's kind of disingenuous to say that they are actively impeding him, it's just that the name change shortcuts for people that are getting married were not available to him when they definitely should be available.

When my husband and I got married, we sat down and considered: Engle, Semler, Engle, Semler...
"Wow! They are both horrible names!" We finally decided Semler was less common, and slightly nicer sounding, so we went with that. It had absolutely nothing to do with gender.
He mentioned that he wished I had a cool last name like "Stone", so he could upgrade.
I love my wonderful feminist husband!

So I followed the link about the Quebec law, and notice how, even though they're talking about this name change stuff in terms of feminism, the article is still all focused on whether or not a WOMAN has a right to change her name to her husband's, rather than whether ANYONE has the right to change their name to whatever they want upon forming a new family unit. Not a word about men possibly wanting to change their names. People still have such a hard time thinking outside the box. Sort of belies the article's assertion that the woman changing her name is just all great because we're all done with sexism now so feminist efforts to challenge traditions are no longer needed: "There is a new generation of women raised in an equal society who don't feel threatened by men. For them, taking their husband's name doesn't mean living under their husband's shadow."
{sigh}

I don't have any special connection to my last name; it's just my last name.

But I'm not sure if I would take the BF's last name (it's German). It took two years of dating before I finally spelled it right.

Concerning the article I linked to, there was something else that really stuck out for me, and that was the ability to change your name if was too complicated to say or spell. This seems to point to the issues of ethnicity and immigration. If your name is too "foreign" and people constantly mispronounce it, it's easy to change it to something more conforming to "our" culture (something French maybe? or at least English). It seems "Eurocentric" to me.

"I lose a tiny bit of respect for any friend who takes her husband's name."

Personally, I lose a bit of respect for anyone who loses respect for people who have made an informed choice about their own lives. I took my husband's name, because I chose to do so after considering all the options, including him taking my name. Yes, I understand that the practice has patriarchal heritage and implications. So does marriage itself. No, I don't think anyone should change their name unless they want to. But I do think that everyone should be allowed to make either choice without losing feminist cred.

SocialogicalMom, you are not my friend, so you would not be included in my statement. And, since you don't know my friends, you can't assume that they all made the same informed decision that you did. I don't say that I'm proud of the fact that I lose that bit of respect for others, but I do.

Thanks, sociological mom.

I ended up taking my spouse's name, much to my family's surprise. I had always sworn that I'd never change my name. But when I found myself in a particular relationship with a particular person with a particular name, I found that in that situation, it made sense to choose to change my name.

It was a decision I put a lot of thought into, not just an unthinking decision to follow patriarchal norms. I'd hate to think that my friends lost respect for me over that decision.

my mom didn't change her name but i was given my father's name at birth. my mom got sick of people calling her by my dad's name so they decided to hyphenate my name. they consulted with a lawyer and were told that it wasn't worth the hassle of having it legally changed.

i entered school, got a driver's license and ss card with my hypenated name. when i went to get a passport, they refused to use that name so when i was 18 i had it legally changed. i had to explain it to the judge about 10 times before he begrudgingly approved it.

even since i was old enough to talk, people have asked me what name i'm going to give my kids. it always seemed so ridiculous to me - the fact is that EVERYONE who gets married and has kids in every society makes a choice about their own name and their kids name. just because society has created a de-facto answer to the question doesn't mean that the question doesn't exist.

Whitemore,
You have a good point, I don't know that your friends made the decision in an informed way. I apologize for making assumptions. But I still felt like someone should make the point that you *can* be a feminist and make more than one informed decision.

While yes, the article about Quebec was framed in sexist language, the law itself isn't. No one can change their name unless it's supremely hard to pronounce or spell. There was even a case where a transwoman had a hard time change her name to a female name because she hadn't undergone the surgery.

It's kind of a stupid law, IMO. What if your parents do something stupid like name you "Fifi Trixabelle" or "Moxie Crimefighter"?

Personally, I lose a bit of respect for anyone who loses respect for people who have made an informed choice about their own lives.

I have to chime in and say that I think that the original commenter wasn't talking about those who make informed choices because my friends sound very similar to hirs.

I had one friend very sad about losing her "maiden" name because she had to take her husband's last name. I asked her why she "had to." She said it was so that she would have the same last name as the kids she planned to have with him. I asked why the kids had to have his name. I got "tradition" as the answer.

I think that sharing names either way is a wonderful expression of love. If people aren't attached to their names and they aren't doing it "just because that's what's done," more power to them. But, similarly, when women mindlessly change their names after marriage, it makes me sad. I try not to assume that every time women change their names it's mindless, though.

my wife and i want to change our last names (we're both women) and we're going to have to go through this, too. It can be difficult to want to change your name when you're a lefist-feminist queer. But I just feel like my last name indicates my first family, my family or origin and we want to have (or already do even w/out kids) a new family as an adult, and why not have a unique name that we all share?

When I got married, I took his last name and it was BY FAR the best choice for me.

My maiden name is long and slavic, hard to spell and harder to pronounce. I'm not close to my family at all, and if you googled me you found my reviews on Amazon, my wedding website, and stories about my uncle the murderer. With pictures. And we look a lot alike.

Personally, I don't want any future employers to google me and associate me with an uncle I've never met. I don't want to be associated with that family for many, many reasons.

My new name? One syllable, standard English word. It has made life SO. MUCH. EASIER.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the story isn't about how the court would not let him change his name, just that he would have to go through the normal court procedures for changing his name (ie paying legal fees, jumping through the courtroom hoops, appearing before a judge). When women get married it is a simple signature that changes their name.

Not that it is ok, it should be just as easy for a man to change. But I'm just pointing out it wasn't impossible.

I'm in a constant internal struggle right now. I'm getting married in a little over a year. I ABSOLUTELY HATE my divorced parents. I have my father's name and I have no intention keeping it. My mother changed her last name back after the divorce, but I'm not exactly jumping to take her last name either.

Well, then, you would think that I can just take my fiance's last name, right? Unfortunately, he's a strict Catholic guy who just doesn't get some of the issues of feminism. I suggested changing his middle name if I'm going to take his last name. He absolutely refused. Hyphenation or a new 'combined' last name is out of the question. It's his attitude that makes me want to not take his last name. And he has a pretty common American last name too! Why are women's names so disposable?

i agree with whitemore.

not proud of it - but i lose respect as well.

i guess if i knew they weighed all the aspects and still made that decision for themselves, i would be more understanding. the ability of women to make their own informed decisions definitely supersedes any uneasiness I feel with "traditionally" taking your partner's last name.

but. (and imma ruffle some proverbial feathers here)
hyphenated names get on my nerves. it just seems so... "look, i found someone, I'm loved and accepted and normal!!!"

it's as if those who hyphenate are worried people will think they're single (gasp!).
and often times it's only the woman hyphenating the name...
(again, the self-debated, informed decision supersedes here)

bah. i've got me mum's last name. she got married a couple times and changed her name (when i was 7 then 12) and both times i refused to change mine. i liked that she made the decision mine.

im all about changing both last names to something fun. like, popscicle. or cake.

I find it sort of odd when women decide to change their names because they hate their last name or want to separate themselves from their family/parents.

If this was really such an important issue to them, wouldn't they have already changed it?

I think this is so funny because my dad took my mom's last name back in the '80s (she's an only child and they wanted to keep the name going). When he went to change his name, the woman asked him, very slowly and loudly, "Is this the tradition in your country?" They still tell that story at parties and I happily fill out my father's maiden name when applying to school or for jobs.

I think this is so funny because my dad took my mom's last name back in the '80s (she's an only child and they wanted to keep the name going). When he went to change his name, the woman asked him, very slowly and loudly, "Is this the tradition in your country?" They still tell that story at parties and I happily fill out my father's maiden name when applying to school or for jobs.

I think this is so funny because my dad took my mom's last name back in the '80s (she's an only child and they wanted to keep the name going). When he went to change his name, the woman asked him, very slowly and loudly, "Is this the tradition in your country?" They still tell that story at parties and I happily fill out my father's maiden name when applying to school or for jobs.

I didn't take my husband's name for political reasons, but we try to build pride in my stepdaughter about her last name because it's one of the only things her mother can't change (this is a woman who files to take away joint custody every time we dress the girl in pants or non-girly colors) that connects her to her father. That and her race, although even that her mother tries to stamp out by only allowing Anglo influences in the home (Disney princesses ONLY), despite the girl's phenotypically Asian features.

I'm also with whitemore when it comes to my friends who change their names when they marry. It's supposed to be a partnership, not a contract between owner and property. My opinion, I also don't completely understand the reasons behind marriage either.

Hmm, let me rephrase that. I understand the reasons behind civil arrangements: the sharing of money, duties, partnership, comfort, friendship, companionship, etc. That makes sense.

I don't understand the convoluted, Western notion of love and family and marriage and happily ever after. It seems to preclude the idea of growth and change and the fact that tomorrow could be very different from today.

This is obviously the reason why I remain happily single. :)

Don't want a name change, stop expecting diamonds. Such hypocrisy rightfully makes people lose respect for the cause of equality.

I'm just delighted it's finally happened. (Not in the sense that I don't care about the sexism and ridiculous government obstructionism along the way; rather that I am immensely relieved by the outcome.)

It's a very personal issue for me. My only cousin and I are both female, and under the current surname norms, our family name will disappear with us. She's kept our name; I don't know what her plans are for if and when she and her husband actually have kids.

I have tried every which way to find some manner that I'm comfortable with of passing on my family name. I knew a family at my high school who gave their kids one of their last names each, alternating, so one was a Johnson and the other a Netkalappa (those were just random examples). I applaud the egalitarianism but I don't like the idea of my kids having different last names--for the longest time I had no idea the girls in question were sisters.

It's a problem that haunts me. My family, and the name we bear, means the world to me. For me, as a feminist and someone very grounded in the modern world, it really problematizes the whole functioning of surnames--why should we have to be so tied to our families to identify ourselves? The history of women's names here is obviously riddled with misogyny, invisibility, and silencing, and I have a hard time reconciling that with my feelings about my family at times. If it weren't for that misogynist tradition, I wouldn't be a Meyer--but of course, I would: I would be the same person with the same family. So why does having the name mean so much?

My friend's mother was a younger sibling and HATED the "OH, you're so-and-so's sister! She's such a great student" she got from all her teachers, so each of her daughters got a different last name.

I changed my name when I got married, and have pretty much mildly regretted it ever since. I'm thinking about changing back before I seriously publish (I had this moment of panic at a conference I attended last year, where I was all of a sudden convinced that I had the "wrong" name on my nametag, and people wouldn't recognize me later. Bizarre).

Names are important because they're a part of our identity. Some might argue that it's a superficial, incidental part, but have you ever known anyone who hated being called by their nickname or full name ("I'm Katie, NOT Katherine!")? Your name is important because it's one of the first things people learn about who you are. Names are important because we feel like if someone knows our name, they know something indefinible and personal about us. I often give a false name when I'm out clubbing, not because I honestly think anyone is going to remember/care/stalk me, but because of that mildly superstitious "I'm not going to give you the privilege of knowing my name."

On a side note, one of the oldest forms of magic is name magic, where knowing something's or someone's name gives you power over it/them. The Greek Magical Papyri (from Greco-Roman Egypt, ca. 2000 years ago) are full of spells that operate on the assumption that if you can call the god/demon/whatever by its real, secret name, you can force it to do things for you.

As far as naming children Moxie crimefighter in Quebec, I understand there is an naming review board so you can't name the kid Fluffy or Godzilla. And I'm fully behind making the name change process equal for everyone under all circumstances, my cousin got married a few years ago and didn't bother change her name because it would have cost 200$. Although it means I hate the "security question": "what is your mother maiden name?" I insist on using one of my ancestors names instead.

iqonefiftynine, I really hope you're joking.

Maggie, I'm the same way! If I'm at a bar or something, I always make up a name. I feel this weird defensiveness about my name, like, it's mine, and you don't get to know it until I think you deserve to. Plus, I have a lot of fun coming up with random names for myself.

Iqonefiftynine, I highly doubt many (or any) of the women here who said they are/have/will keeping/kept/keep their names expect engagement rings, but nice try.

On that note though, I practically had to beat Mr. KMP over the head to get him to realize I wasn't being coy about not wanting an engagement ring. I told him that if he bought me a ring, I wouldn't marry him, b/c it would mean he hadn't been listening to me at all over the past 5 years.

My partner and I chose an entirely different last name when we got married. We did not like the symbology of me taking his last name, and the problem was no better the other way around. So we looked at our background, chose a name from a language we both had an ancestral contact with that described us, and changed to it. It was still problematic on the day of the wedding, but we got around that by having him open his 'change of name' document at the same time we signed the documentation, so technically our names both changed immediately. We sort of had to dodge things legally to manage it, but it worked out.

Pinepple,
You are the one trying. Look at all your qualifiers. How bout you take a poll to see how many rings on those who didn't change names. Let's see who is right.

The name-changing business smacks of a transfer of ownership from father to husband. If I get married, I hope it will be to someone who will look me in the eyes and say she'll never take my name. Really... how can I marry someone that I don't respect?

(yes, there are reasons women choose to take their husband's name other than submission and/or tradition.. apologies to a few posters above for my generalization, but I can't shake the emotion.)

I didn't realize that it was a rule that if you accepted an engagement ring, you automatically must change your name. Are you saying that a man buys a woman with an engagement ring, that he is entitled to change her identity because of it? You're not a troll, are you?

Heathernumber1--good point. If you don't like your name, you don't have to wait to get married to change it.

To the point of all names being patriarchal: If I like the name that I am given and I own it, it is no longer patriarchal, because I am a woman owning it now.

That's one major thing that bugs me about the government; they get too involved in one's personal life. If they want their wife's last name, let them have it. Females have been taking their husband's last name for generations (which bugs the shit out of me) and the government never denied that. So why deny the switch? They're the ones who are going live with the change, not the government. So let them be!!!
Way to go Michael Buday, or shalli say Michael Bijon!

So I had this friend in high school who told me a fun story about her grandmother. Apparently when she was getting married she decided she didn't like her fiance's last name, so she went through the phone book and picked out a last name for both of them to use. Which is my friend's last name now. And this was her grandmother, so it was probably in the 1940's or 1950's when she did this...making her incredibly badass in my mind.

If/when I get married, what name I use will probably depend on the guy, what his last name is, etc.

Maggie, I am so one of those people (about nicknames). If you call me Elizabeth there's a chance I just won't answer because no one EVER calls me that. I've actually had people see something official of mine, like my license, and exclaim "I didn't realize Liza was short for Elizabeth! I just can't see you as an Elizabeth." To which I usually think "duh" because a) pretty much every occurrence of the name Liza is short for Elizabeth and b) of course you can't see me as an Elizabeth, I'm Liza.

I don't particularly LIKE my name (being called Lisa by everyone who sees my name written out got old in, oh, preschool). But it's my name. I've had people suggest changing my nickname to one of the billion other shortened versions of Elizabeth, or to use my middle name, but I don't think I could. I've always been Liza, and even though I don't love it, I'll always be Liza.

So it is hard for me to imagine having a different last name. I've always been an ______ (not putting my full name one the internet), and there are a lot of personality quirks that pretty much *everyone* on the ____ side of my family shares, including me, so I don't know if I'd want to change it. Plus a whole host of other reasons, not the least of which being that both my grandparents on that side are now deceased and of the 4 grandchildren there's only one male (my brother who doesn't plan to have kids).

But as I said a moment ago, whether I keep my own name or hyphenate might depend on the hypothetical husband. I might feel like sharing names would be a bond...or he might have a really cool last name. Since I haven't met him yet, I don't know.

Aw, I love that story.

The boyfriend often teases that with me being such a "21rst Century Fox" he's gonna have to work real hard at just getting me to hyphenate my name. I think if I hyphenate my name he should too.

...Or maybe we'll just switch names.

Qualifiers? Do you know what that word means? I didn't qualify at all. I used different tenses of the the verbs "to be" and "to keep." In fact, in doing so, I included more people in my statement; qualifying would have limited the number of people. For instance, a simpler version of my sentence would be:

I doubt many woman who keep their names expect engagment rings.

Qualified:

I doubt many woman who keep their names expect engagement rings if they view both traditions as symbolic of ownership.

You could argue that my statement is a qualified version of "I doubt many women expect engagement rings," but since I was never trying to assert this particular view, it would be weird to do so.

Also: poll all you like; you're original comment still came out of nowhere and is irrelevant to the post or the discussion on the thread.

Troll? Nope. Provocateur? Absolutely! Is there a rule? Yup. It's this... Accepting an engagement ring without accepting a name change makes you a phony. You aren't a hypocrite are you?

If it's your rule, don't accept an engagement ring or give one if the woman in question is not going to "put out" with a name change. A ritual gift is not a purchase of a human identity. Your tone is rude. It started with "hypocrisy," and continued with "phony." Rude provocateur equals troll.

well it sucks royally that they have to fight for it but this man is my hero. second only to ms. bruen of course. hopefully, this will one day become as common as a woman taking her husband's last name (it's nice to dream).

well it sucks royally that they have to fight for it but this man is my hero. second only to ms. bruen of course. hopefully, this will one day become as common as a woman taking her husband's last name (it's nice to dream).

Three things come to mind. (1) I was surprised when I moved to CA that I had so much trouble not having my husband's name. Landlords wanted to charge us double for credit checks so they could check us individually. Our insurance agent sent me birthday cards with his last name and my first name ("your business is important to us" although we couldn't be bothered to address you correctly), and so on. I thought of all places, it would be easy to have a different last name in San Francisco. No dice.

(2) My husband didn't buy me with a ring. Considering I make about 3x what he does, I think he's gotten a pretty fair shake out of his partnership with me.

(3) My biggest pet peeve is the "tradition" of formally addressing a couple as "Mr. & Mrs. Charles Smith." I don't hear people mention it much, but that title completely erases the woman's personhood with the exception of a generic honorific suggesting she is a married lady. The symbolism of that title always blows me away.

Heathernumber1--good point. If you don't like your name, you don't have to wait to get married to change it.

I'm barely old enough to legally get it changed. I'm working on it.

(3) My biggest pet peeve is the "tradition" of formally addressing a couple as "Mr. & Mrs. Charles Smith." I don't hear people mention it much, but that title completely erases the woman's personhood with the exception of a generic honorific suggesting she is a married lady. The symbolism of that title always blows me away.

I'm completely with you on this one. I swear, anyone who tries to address me like that will get bitch slapped on the face. I've seen gravestones of couples marked like that.

I am actually surprised that he went through so much hassle to legally take his wife's name. The article only mentions the problems he had with the California DMV... I wonder if he filed for a change of name with the SSA first? Their instructions for doing so are gender neutral

If you need to change your name on your Social Security card, you must show us a recently issued document as proof of your legal name change. Documents Social Security may accept to prove a legal name change include:

Marriage document;
Divorce decree;
Certificate of Naturalization showing a new name; or
Court order for a name change.

In addition to showing us a legal document proving your marriage, divorce or annulment, you must provide an identity document. That document must show your old name, as well as other identifying information or a recent photograph.

The CA DMV will issue a DL/ID with your name as it appears on your SS card. They don't check your marriage license, or require an explaination for the name change. Since the Bijon story doesn't mention a problem with the social security administration, I'm guessing they either didn't change it with them first or they didn't bring his new SS card with him to the DMV as proof of his name change.

I just went through all this in California a couple months ago. Granted, I am a woman who took my husband's last name, but there was nothing to suggest that my gender had anything to do with it.

And BTW, there was no where on the marriage license application we filled out (in California) to indicate what my post-nuptual name would be. Only my maiden name appeared on our license.

I don't recall if the DMV forms included a "reason for name change" but if they did, it was gender neutral. I would have remembered for sure if it said something like reason for name change: to take my husband's sur-name.

Okay, I just noticed that this whole thing started back in Jan '07 (should have known that a civil rights case would not be resolved in a few months). I guess a lot can change in the course of a year. They must have re-vamped the forms & license format half-way through the trial or something.

So my apologies for accusing the Bijons of being too dumb to figure it out. Too bad no one told him of the change in procedure sooner, though. He could have made it official months ago.

iqonefiftynine-

You don't get to judge me or any other woman that keeps her name and loves her engagement ring. I fully own my choice to wear my rings, knowing full well the historical implications of women as property. I can wear my rings and critique the practice and not be considered a bad feminist. What's next, I'm a hypocrite if I kept my name but wear make-up, skirts and high heels? Give me a break. We're all individuals with choices to make on a daily basis, and that includes deciding which feminist battles we want to take on. YOU don't have the right to decide which battles I find important, so you know where you can shove that judgmental attitude of yours, right?

re: this actual thread
Someone brought up the Mr. and Mrs His Names. After all that work they went through so he could take her name, strangers will continue to do the rude thing and assume that's his original name and that she took it. They will get addressed as Mr. and Mrs. Michael Bijon. I'm with the others that think it's incredibly rude and condescending and even lazy to completely ignore the woman's individual name and wrap her identity up within her husband. I kept my name as Jessica R___ on marriage and I don't even look at mail addressed to Jessica M__________ or Mrs. M__________ and especially NOT Mrs. T___ M__________. I've received wedding invitations for cousins we had been close to that not only addressed me this way, when the couple DOES know better, but they completely mangled my husbands name.

The way I see it, the problem isn't with the name you are born with or the name you may choose to change it to. The problem is with the people that refuse to allow for any deviations from what they consider acceptable and attempt to subvert your decision by addressing you any which way but by your name. The other problem is that if the government required marrying women to pay all the same fees and fill out all the same paperwork as anyone else changing their names, then we'd probably see two things: 1) fewer women would wait til marriage to change a name that cannot live with and 2) fewer women in total would probably take their husband's name. I honestly feel that allowing women such a fast pass is discrimination in a broad sense against men and anyone that wants a name change but can't or won't get married. Either make it that easy for everyone or make it that time-consuming/expensive for everyone.

Voila,

I'm so sorry. I forgot that you purchased your own engagment ring and placed it on your finger as a symbol of ever lasting love for your man. Not!

Actually I do get to judge you. This site is all about social criticism so get off your high horse.

You may well know the historical implications of women as property, but you sure seem quite ignorant of the modern implications of the diamond market. I am glad you own your hypocrisy! That's wonderfully evolved.

THANK YOU ACLU

In live in CA. Getting engaged and married made me 10 times more of a feminist. Starting with the ring and then after that filling that DAMN form that had an implication that I should change my last name and my husband shouldn't. (I kept mine)

I think last names are BS. You are completely ignoring the majority of your ancestors! the next generation of feminists should reject last names:)

I have also considered that if I have a child, its last name would be my first name. just as a bonus for carrying the kid in me for nine months.

When the MAJORITY of people in a culture have a certain bias (and make a certain choice) then that choice can sometimes (not in all cases) lose its meaning. Especially when that choice is easier to deal with legally AND socially (you don't have to deal with resistance from your fiance, friends, family, etc.). And the last time I checked women didn't tend to be confrontational.

As someone who still has her own name after marriage I have been poked and questioned by people (especially in my husband's family) about my decision. People are pushy when they think they are righteous and I have not enjoyed having people who have made many BAD choices in their lives judge me and look down on me for NOT changing my last name. My mother-in-law still writes my husband's last name in front of my first name in postcards and I have been so polite so far. But I'm really about to write her an actual letter reminding her that I don't like her little joke.

I know some of you might get annoyed at other feminists looking down on you about changing your last names, but I personally think the majority of women in our society are more prone to dealing with the opposite problem and that's getting attitude for keeping their names.

how about trying to help them?

A lot of people don't feel comfortable sending mail without including a last name for the addressee. I'm not really sure why that as- perhaps they're concerned about it being delivered to the wrong address? Including the addressee's surname is further insurance it will get to the intended recipient.

I've sent plenty of notes and cards through the mail addressed simply to "Momma" or "Daddy," and the USPS always got them there. But when I addressed the Christmas card we sent to my sister's family using only first names, my husband asked if I meant to address it that way on the envelope.

Strunk & White would never approve of it, and my husband saw it the same as a typo, misspelling or grammatical error. But since my sister kept her maiden name (and at the time, I had no idea what the baby's last name was) it seemed like the only way to be inclusive of the whole family without it looking like it was addressed to a law firm (that is, too many names).

So perhaps your mother in law addressed the postcard that way because she wanted it properly addressed to her son, but also wanted to include you? It is better than putting (his first name) + (your first name) + (his last name) is it not? Of course she should have put your last name after your first name, but there's only so much room on a postcard....

Sorry, I don't know your mother in law, so I guess you would know better than I, what her intentions were. As somebody else mentioned above, there's an advantage to being "The (so-and-so)s."

iqonefiftynine, the bottom line is that the decisions people make about marriage - including names, rings, ceremonies and EVERYTHING - are their own personal decisions. Which makes them none of your damn business.

And when you knowingly come to a feminist site and spout off misogynistic "rules" and stereotypes, that makes you a troll. Hate to break it to you.

Saying "Accepting an engagement ring without accepting a name change makes you a phony" is right along the lines of "if he pays for dinner you owe him sex." It's crap. And you're a troll.