yay, scare tactics and lies...what every teen needs. I'm sure her years at the crisis-pregnancy center helped her there.

I couldn't stand how she put the blame on the girls the whole way through her speech (at least the 5 minutes I could take of it).

I do think that she has a valid point that sexually active teens need to be aware of disease, but how over-the-top can you get? NO ONE who has ever had more than one partner hasn't "paid for it?" WTF?!?!?!?

This woman scares the shit out of me! Especially because when she starts talking she sounds like someone who, you know, actually cares about getting teens honest information about sex. Not so! When I have kids, I will lose my mind if abstinence "educators" like this ever make an appearance in their schools. Ugh.

Man, that assembly is all wrong but it's all-white!

Hopefully most kids will retain their contrarian nature and fuck like rabbits (while eschewing denim jackets).

I particularly love the fact that the YouTube page no longer allows comments.

Very telling indeed.

Woman hate coming from a woman -- it always boggles my mind.

Seriously, could she be more anti-female. Why would you want to put your 20 year old daughter in a box and lock her up. A 20 year old is an adult and if pregnancy is so livable what are you so scared of? --- could it be you never told your daughter about condoms so she's gonna get all those diseases you rattled off?

It's just beyond sickening that this woman is let into schools. The way she talks about young pregnant women is deplorable. "boys you won't have any say what she does with your child." "Our country has to pay for your poverty." and at the end with her hypocritical voice "I don't know who the father is."

Fucking bitch! OH I AM SO MAD.

Recently, I did some research on the straight edge scene, and those kids are totally in to this woman. It's frightening to think what can arise from the combination of peer pressure and misinformation.

Did you see how the camera zoomed in at the couple holding hands? What was that about?

I too was disgusted at the end when she said mockingly "I don't know who the father is." What if the girl was raped by a stranger? That was really shitty.

I do understand her point regarding diseases. WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO EDUCATE SEXUALLY ACTIVE TEENS ABOUT CONDOMS, NOT ABSTINENCE. I know, preaching to the choir.

If you use a combination of birth control and prophylactics along with proper testing before having intercourse with whatever partner, DID YOU KNOW that you are FORTY TIMES more likely to ENJOY SEX?

Oh, you didn't? I guess no one ever told you that sex is a nice thing.

On a side note, the ending was perhaps the most terrifying part of it all, when she explicitly revealed how marriage is a patriarchal institution: "Guys, if you want to be able to control the woman of the child you helped to create, all you gotta do is marry 'em and then you're protected by law!"

The whole thing really did make me sick to my stomach and painfully sad.

We watched a video of this woman in junior high (6 or 7 years ago). If it makes anyone feel any better, I don't remember anything about birth control or abortion. She likes to mock teens who have sex by saying "but we looooove each otherrrrr," and I remember we thought that was super annoying and we walked around for weeks saying it completely out of context to each other, to our teachers, etc. Our teachers regretted showing it to us, and we got nothing but an annoying catchphrase out of it.

Well, at least Ian MacKaye would have given them a bitchin' concert.

She only said that teenage GIRLS carry diseases... well, I started wondering, where the germs would come from...?

I wasn't too impressed by her presentation-skills, actually. All that hand rubbing and hand folding got on my nerves very quickly and her intonation screamed "manipulator!!!" very loudly. But probably she can impress some young and not yet stabilized character. Shame on her for being such a hidden persuader.

wow. i can't even believe how scarily believable she sounds. i like how she "doesn't want to make my choice," but i didn't hear her mention anything about, oh i don't know, condoms or anything like that. i also like that if i ever have sex with more than one person i'm gonna pay for it. awesome. at least i have something to look forward to.

Well she says she reads all her e-mail, maybe we should send her some??

Did she imply that if you were married you'd have a legal say in whether your wife can have an abortion?

The audience in this video is so...white and preppy. Who is this aimed at?

As others have said, I know plenty of people who have had sex outside one, life-long monogamous relationship and not "paid". I also know people who did commit themselves to one relationship and it, uh, didn't work out so great (her husband cheated on her and gave her an STD, his wife realized she was a lesbian later in life and left him for another woman, his/her spouse was an abusive asshole, and a million others)

And teens are most scared of getting pregnant because for a lot of them, that's their biggest danger! Two 16 year olds who have only ever had sex with each other aren't at risk for AIDs.

"If you use a combination of birth control and prophylactics along with proper testing before having intercourse with whatever partner, DID YOU KNOW that you are FORTY TIMES more likely to ENJOY SEX?"

I'm really curious as to where she got her stats from, especially the one about being 10x more succeptible to STDs when you're on birth control...

Ooh, she's vile.

I don't know why it cut this portion out of my comment but I said "right on" to Sean's comment on top there =)

I do understand her point regarding diseases. WHICH IS WHY WE NEED TO EDUCATE SEXUALLY ACTIVE TEENS ABOUT CONDOMS, NOT ABSTINENCE. I know, preaching to the choir.

Yes. Precisely. Right on.

If being on birth control makes girls more likely to contract diseases, it's not because of the birth control, it's because they're uneducated about sex and all of its potential consequences. The way to remedy that is not to tell teenagers not to have sex, it's to teach them about those consequences and what they can do to avoid them. Abstinence is a totally valid option, but it sure as hell ain't the only option.

I'm with Tobes- I'm sure we can all think of some excellent questions for Pam Stenzel.

You know what's funny? I'm reading these comments and... the feds are paying to have people like this spread lies and misinformation around the world.

The Peace Corps is a federal program and we were required to be able to put a condom on a dildo in 10 seconds. In fact, we also had to do skits in order to show proper condom usage.

They just accepted the fact that 95% of us were going to have sex during our service and planned accordingly.

so, for the first two minutes she says things that are "true" such as women who have abortions experience trauma (i say "some do" and bitch here says "all do"); also that using birthcontrol can make you sterile or kill you (i say, "that's what the warning says on the package!" she says, "all do!"). so, i think what's happening is that she's using "facts" to make herself legitimate (they're also facts any kid can find on google!) but then spinning them with hate.

it got unbearable when she was spewing hate towards the girls present. that was just awful.

and, i think it's definitely geared towards middle america. but i mean, really, middle america and white middle class kids have so much access to GOOD information too! they have access to the most services! i'm happy this isn't geared towards marginalized populations.

xo

Its the flat-out lies that bothers me the most. Hopefully kids will be able to see through that and then not believe anything she says.

.....sperm stealing?

I seriously doubt she reads her own email, but I sent her one:

Dear Pam,

I truly don't believe what you say about birth control being a bad thing. Why are anti-choicers like you against birth control AND abortion? If more women used birth control, there would be less abortion. Condoms are not very ineffective either. Why is abstinence the only right answer?

I'll probably never get a response to that.

" She likes to mock teens who have sex by saying "but we looooove each otherrrrr," and I remember we thought that was super annoying and we walked around for weeks saying it completely out of context to each other, to our teachers, etc. Our teachers regretted showing it to us "

Nice! Thats a good way to toss it back into their faces!

Jessica,
You might want to watch the video again.

Stenzel isn't claiming that birth control can kill or sterilize people. She's claiming STDs can kill or sterilize someone and that girls on hormonal forms of birth control have higher STD rates.

Also, can you really call someone a liar for claiming they've counseled women who have serious issues after having abortions. What's your evidence that Stenzel hasn't counseled young women dealing with issues after an abortion?

I remember this woman! When I was thirteen, my very Catholic aunt gave a video of hers to my mother, insisting that she show it to me. My mom and I sat about halfway through it before she turned it off because she couldn't believe what was being said. Luckily, my mom gave me a very comprehensive sexual education when I was a teen.

Any birth control can kill me? So having sex only on my infertile days - which is birth control in its most natural way - can be lethal? Aaaah... okay, perhapys I will die of shame for denying my hubby his very own right to have sex with me for i am nothing but a filthy young lady who has had sex outside a marriage and probably dying of natural birth control is my way to pay for my sins/naughtyness/being a woman.
Am i right, or what?

It is soooo vile that a woman hates women so much.
A women's mouth tells women to shut their mouth...

After watching all 6 parts of this video, I have to say that she isn't 100% right or wrong. Pointing out that there is no test for men with HPV is important. Insisting that teenagers get tested for STDs is responsible for ant program. Pointing out that no person who cares about you will force you to do something you don't want to do is a basic fact of all relationships. She overstates the harm probably because no one chooses to be a statistic. Considering that her mother was raped and put her up for adoption, I can understand her opposition to abortion. I just wonder who will be responsible enough to get tested so that they won't pass on STDs.

For the last damn time people, you CAN test men for HPV. They just don't like it. Mind you, most MDs also don't know it can be done, but it can and has been done. Check Cosette Wheeler's work on HPV for more details.

I had to stop watching after she started using a mocking, whiny tone of voice to imitate the teenage girls that she's supposedly trying to help and inform.

My grandmother had three marriages (last 2 happy). The only thing she ever "paid for" was marrying a greedy money-grubber in marriage #1 who basically married her for her money.

From the previous comments, I don't dare watch it, for fear of me going psycho. Mocking the very girls she's supposed to help?! How sick and emotionally abusive is that!

When I was 16 I SAW HER LIVE.

First of all, she opens by talking about how her mother was raped and had her anyway (if her mother can do it you can too!). Then she talks about STI facts (which are generally true), blames them on the vileness of sex (or rather the girls that let boys bang them), and finishes by saying you shouldn't avoid sex because all of these life ending reasons but because God said not to (this was at a Christian teen conference). No joke. It was like listening to my mother tell me not to drink..."Because you'll die, but more importantly, because I say so."

What did I do after the conference? I went home and had unprotected oral sex with my boyfriend! Yay for education!

I got a bunch of these talks from my high school. I really wish I had the nerve to argue back, but I was worried I would get hit with the slut stick.

10 times more likely to get an STD? Where is she getting that from? Also, I've had sex with 4 people, none of whom I was married too, I've yet to pay for my horrible slutty ways. I'd also like to bring up how she completely ignores the fact that just because a couple is married, doesn't mean they want to have kids. Married women have unwanted pregnancies too, but I guess those women are just evil feminist harpies who dare to not want to bear ten of their husband's kids.

The part about "but I don't know who the father is" made me want to puke. Has this woman ever stopped to consider that maybe a girl WON'T know? Maybe she had more than one partner around the time she was getting pregnant. Maybe she was raped. But then I guess the slut deserves it cause she couldn't keep her legs closed/showed a little skin.

What I think is amazing is how much some of her arguments, like the ones about being substantially more likely to live below the poverty line if you are a teen mother, make a great argument for having an abortion if you wind up pregnant as a teenager. Particularly to a teen, it seems that abstract future "trauma" would be less compelling than actual physical poverty in making a decision to keep or end a pregnancy.

Well, I actually got a response from the email I sent her. This is what she told me:

What you choose to believe is up to you. My job is to educate and teach the truth. Obviously the information that I share is truthful or I wouldn't be booked over half the month. People don't want to pay for lies! I am driven by the fact that I have heard from more teens than you could ever imagine "I didn't know. Nobody told me." And, I've sat with teens in tears because they thought they were being "safe" because some adult they trust said that some pill, or shot, or piece of latex would keep them safe only to find out that they are still pregnant or have an STD. Compromising the message encourages risk. It doesn't help. It hurts. Remember, I didn't say that I was there to make their choice. I wasn't. I was there to give the TRUTH so that they can make an educated choice in their personal...whatever that may be. Also please be careful to act as though you know my situation about knowledge or birth control, pregnancy, and/or abortion. My degree is in clinical counseling and I spent 9 years counseling on this issue alone. I was not a one stop shop but an ongoing counselor. I have listened day in and day out because I care. It is important to let people know that abortion is not a quick fix and that there are emotional and physical issues afterwards. It is important to present facts about parenting and adoption. It is important that people know how STDs are passed, their prevalence, and their consequences. It is important that people know what healthy relationships look like and that regardless of their past they can still choose differently tomorrow if they choose to do so with the new informaiton. Most importantly, its important that they feel cheered on, empowered, and treated with respect. Each of them deserves the truth, not watered down, risky information, and should be allowed to hear it and make their own choice. We should never make that judgement call for them. Best wishes,Pam

I am so pissed off right now. I can't think of anything that annoys me more than people taking dumbass cultural memes -- like "I want to lock my children in a box to keep them from having sex, haw haw" -- that have no basis in reality, and packaging them as nonthreatening "common-sense" attitudes -- because you just know that people will latch onto them because of how familiar and "right" they sound. It's why TV and radio pundits and comedians who do nothing but make fun of people and play on the audience's prejudices get cheered on and applauded for daring to "speak the truth," and none of the ridiculous shit they spew along the way gets challenged. I keep getting substitute teachers who love to take their hour and half with a captive, impressionable audience to try their hand at this. The last one, in the process of explaining what lazy parasites poor people are, tried to tell us that 80% of the country is on welfare. Uh, yeah. I suppose I'd be scaremongering too, if I thought the situation was that dire. She also wasn't a big fan of those shady Mexicans and their Spanish department-store signage. But I digress.

“so, for the first two minutes she says things that are "true" such as women who have abortions experience trauma (i say "some do" and bitch here says "all do"); also that using birthcontrol can make you sterile or kill you (i say, "that's what the warning says on the package!" she says, "all do!")� – ohsweetie

She does not say that all birth control will make you sterile or kill you. First, she said sterility and or death could occur, not that it would in all cases. Second, I understood those to be consequences of STDs (she lead into the line of thought by pointing out the higher rate of STDs in girls using the pill and the shot) rather than as caused directly by the birth control.

Wow, I was forced to watch this in my Catholic middle school. Seventh grade. Oh dear god.

"Any birth control can kill me? So having sex only on my infertile days - which is birth control in its most natural way - can be lethal?"

Technically, I guess that's only true in the domestic violence sense (getting killed for "dishonoring" the family by not getting pregnant often enough, early enough, etc. even if her birth control method was even more abstience than NFP). Bleah.

"Considering that her mother was raped and put her up for adoption, I can understand her opposition to abortion."

OTOH, it would be no less "understandable" if she was opposed to discouraging rape (if her mom aborted then she wouldn't be here, if her dad didn't rape then she wouldn't be here, etc.)...

"I'd also like to bring up how she completely ignores the fact that just because a couple is married, doesn't mean they want to have kids. Married women have unwanted pregnancies too"

...and married girls have teen pregnancies too.

"And, I've sat with teens in tears because they thought they were being 'safe' because some adult they trust said that some pill, or shot, or piece of latex would keep them safe only to find out that they are still pregnant or have an STD."

Some teens end up in tears because they thought they were being "safe," because adults they trust said that their weddings would keep them safe, only to find out that they still have HIV. Hmm.

I ended up sitting through all six parts of her presentation on YouTube... The only time she mentions condoms through the whole thing is when she imitates a teen by mockingly saying "I'm ready to have sex because I've got a piece of la-tex!"

Eh, from watching the video and comments from people who've experienced her firsthand, it seems like she's only an engaging speaker if you're older. She doesn't hide her contempt for teens well, and kids are really good at picking up on that kind of thing. Scary thing is that some kids will probably misinterpret her message as well - birth control means you're more likely to get an std, so go ahead and skip it. Super!

I've actually seen her in person several times. She is pretty engaging in person, and when you are inundated with this crap day in and day out, it's easy to latch on to someone who talks in a casual, conversational tone. I would never let my kids sit through these talks, at least not without actual information from me.

Argh, Brenna, that response is killing me -- "Compromising the message encourages risk. It doesn't help. It hurts.... Each of them deserves the truth, not watered down, risky information..." Jesus FUCK, woman. Maybe not reducing the idea of contraception to "some pill, or shot, or piece of latex" would be a good place to start. Or going a little deeper than "pregnancy is survivable... abortion hurts."

What a sanctimonious idiot. Call me crazy, but I don't see that Good Intentionsâ„¢ and a degree in clinical counseling do much good if you don't bother with learning or sharing any hard facts about the subject you're counseling people on -- let alone actually trying to empathize with the people you supposedly want to help, or to understand the situation they're in, instead of just mocking them -- to their faces, essentially.

Gah.

From the email it seems she has some good intentions. I mean teens should be more concerned about STIs etc but if she cares so much why leave out condoms?? Why hate on the pill? People can use both. Using both is what we should be advocating if we really want to decrease STIs AND teen pregancy. Maybe the teens tell her they didn't know because they didn't have proper sex-ed...

I don't think we should shrug off the idea that there are emotional consequences to abortion, but I do wonder if people weren't always blaming. shaming and disrespecting the women who choose to get abortions would there be these links like depression or anorexia that she mentioned? And isn't she just adding to this cycle by placing all the blame and responsability on the girls who are in the audience?

In 9 minutes and 51 seconds, she said exactly one thing that I agreed with wholeheartedly: "pregnancy is not a disease." Everything else I could totally do without.

This woman comes to public schools? Your tax dollars at work, folks.

Wow, I read her Q and A section. One parent asks, "My daughter is 16 & recently got pregnant by her boyfriend. She miscarried early (thank God) but now I am faced with what to do to prevent this again."
Uhh, birth control?

femmefantastique--totally.

i'm all for pointing out the realities of STDs, but for chrissake, for someone so concerned with "the truth", this woman is pretty blase about failing to mention that MOST PEOPLE LOSE THEIR VIRGINITY AS TEENAGERS AND END UP PERFECTLY FINE. but maybe we're all just waiting for that other shoe to drop and we'll meet our fiery retribution for being sluts one of these days. i'm not holding my breath.

JivinJ, I didn't say she lied about counseling teens. Perhaps it's you that needs to take a closer look. She's saying that ALL women suffer from abortions. That ALL women pay a price for having sex. Telling women that taking birth control will make you more likely to die and be sterile is NOT true. SHE IS LYING. Just because she does it with finesse doesn't change that fact.

Saw your charming post, btw. Thanks. Keep your anti-choice bullshit off my site, k?

I don't think we should shrug off the idea that there are emotional consequences to abortion, but I do wonder if people weren't always blaming. shaming and disrespecting the women who choose to get abortions would there be these links like depression or anorexia that she mentioned?

The thing is that those links don't actually exist. The "study" these "Post-Abortion Syndrome" people point to was a particularly dismal piece of work done by a guy who was kicked out of his professional association for cooking the books in his research. There's no evidence that carrying an unwanted (including rape-induced) pregnancy to term is any less traumatic than terminating it.

"Considering that her mother was raped and put her up for adoption, I can understand her opposition to abortion"

A.V.F.,
How would that make you OPPOSED to abortion?

"Keep your anti-choice bullshit off my site"

Second that.

"dismal piece of work done by a guy who was kicked out of his professional association for cooking the books in his research."

Elise,
Thats interesting. I never heard that one before. I'd like to know where you found that piece of info. I could use it in my journalism classes. Its always good to have some dirt on these anti-choice lyers.

With all her "sex with one partner will make you, oh, I don't know, Jesus Christ" bullshit, why doesn't she talk about her husband and marriage on her own website? Could it be because it could expose her hypocrisy? Think about it. This woman has three kids. That means she's either only been married for 3 years or she and her husband used some method of birth control during their relationship. Otherwise, she'd have way more kids. And since she loves marriage so much, I doubt she waited until she was like 35 to get into one, so I'm guessing she's used birth control.

Also, this notion that there was ever a time in anyone's recent memory that most people didn't use birth control until the 1960s really doesn't make any sense. Who here has dozens, maybe even hundreds, of great aunts and uncles? Nobody. That's because even your great-grandparents used birth control.

I know I've harped on this a lot but what irks the fuck out of me for these anti-choice/anti-sex people is their complete inability to see women as INDIVIDUALS. We are NOT the Borg. We do NOT have one hive mind. If I got pregnant and didn't want it I'd get an abortion post haste and not feel one bit bad about it. Another woman might agonize over the decision and go forward with it and feel sad about the experience, another woman might keep it and regret it, another might keep it and love the child. For some fucked up reason, when it comes to sex and pregnancy the blinders come on and suddenly ALL women want (or are told they SHOULD want) the same thing. If one woman, or hell, 100 women, has/have an abortion and she/they regret it then by god ALL WOMEN must feel that way and we have to lie to them and take away their rights because they don't know what's good for them.

And I'm also sick to death of marriage being the absolute of sexual/personal happiness for everyone, but especially women. As many have pointed out here, I've known many people who've waited until they were married for Teh Sex (and they often only GOT married for Teh Sex) only to end up miserable. Just as a condom can't protect your "heart" neither can a marriage ceremony/license/ring.

So, do guys have any responsibility in preventing pregnancy and disease? At all?

And her response to that e-mail was horrid- treating teenagers with respect, my ass...

"Otherwise, she'd have way more kids. "

...And I hardly think that would be the most attractive way to sell all this anti-choice bullshit. No audience wants to hear how the speaker has 20 kids, because BC is BAD! Her little saying, "pregnancy is survivable" would take on a whole new meaning. The audience would then ask; but is that acceptable in exchange for lowered life quality and loss of control?The answer: No.

"Otherwise, she'd have way more kids. "

Not to knock you FEMily, she probably is using some form of birth control but never under estimate the use of the rhythm method. My mom couldn't take birth control because she ran a high risk of blood clots and she and my dad used that for a long time, ended up spacing out my siblings pretty well.

And then I came along and kinda fucked things up but that's another story;) What I'm saying is, some women do use that method and it does work for the most part (and yeah, I'm aware of all the little embryos that are probably still dying, sometimes ever more so from the rhythm method)

Thats interesting. I never heard that one before. I'd like to know where you found that piece of info. I could use it in my journalism classes. Its always good to have some dirt on these anti-choice lyers.

There's a footnote in Justice Ginsburg's excellent dissent in Gonzales v. Carhart extensively citing not only the "research" favouring the bullshit "Post Abortion Syndrome" but the actual research that was done that debunked the claim.

Elise,
Thanks. Its nice to have these kinds of things on hand. I always hear about the piles of B.S. these CPC's or anti-choice zealots compile (some I've collected from interviews)and have started documenting them for quicker reference for use on assignments or other projects. They come in handy even simply for class debates. Its always smarter to go deeper than the oppositions predictable rhetoric. Documentation gives more sway to the uninitiated neophyte thats not usually seen by the slim coverage on this issue.

Case in point:

JivinJ. Wow. He/r post is an excellent example of the kind of irrational sexist crap anti-choicers spew.

And this woman is sure that being married will protect you from contracting STDs how...?

I had my first child at 17. As I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, there was no question that I was going to have my child and raise him. Unfortunately for us, no one ever thought to help me along the way and teach me how to become an adult. It only recently occurred to me that it is perhaps not entirely my fault that I am still playing catch-up with my peers, emotionally and financially, almost 22 years later. When are we going to stop blaming women for being single mothers? Not all of us chose to go it alone! Why is there still no shame placed on men who abandon their responsibility for their children? My own parents are certainly played apart as well, being more concerned with punishing and rejecting me than making sure I could survive and be successful. I found this woman to be disgusting, but she was right about there being a link between single parenthood and poverty. However, the blame for that falls on each and every one of us in this country, not just poor mothers and children. Since she doesn't seem to think pregnancy is that dire of a consequence, is she for teen marriage in the event that it occurs? 'Cause, you know, nobody ever pays for marrying too young!

Not to knock you FEMily, she probably is using some form of birth control but never under estimate the use of the rhythm method. My mom couldn't take birth control because she ran a high risk of blood clots and she and my dad used that for a long time, ended up spacing out my siblings pretty well.

And then I came along and kinda fucked things up but that's another story;) What I'm saying is, some women do use that method and it does work for the most part (and yeah, I'm aware of all the little embryos that are probably still dying, sometimes ever more so from the rhythm method)

I count rhythm as a birth control method. I count abstinence as birth control if that's the person's intention. People who have "as many children as the Lord will allow" don't plan their pregnancies at all, so they don't even use rhythm. So I consider any method that is more effective at preventing pregnancy than no method at all to be birth control. Pam Stenzel probably uses a "natural" birth control method, like rhythm, and rationalizes it by telling herself that it's not really birth control because at least she's abstinent sometimes.

She took this BS to London?

*sigh* This is why Europeans think we're puritanical, sexphobic nutcases.

I found this woman to be disgusting, but she was right about there being a link between single parenthood and poverty. However, the blame for that falls on each and every one of us in this country, not just poor mothers and children.

According to US government stats, around 80% of noncustodial parents who are court-ordered to pay child support are fathers, but only about 40% of custodial parents get regular child support payments in full. And we all know that whatever a noncustodial parent pays in child support is only a fraction of what they'd be contributing if they lived with their kids and the other parent, so there's really no excuse for not paying.

Thanks, FEMily, that's one of the points I was trying to make about it being the fault of all of us. Is there really any societal shame given to those fathers who don't pay? And why haven't we all demanded a national child support registry yet? It might help in tracking down deadbeat dads. (Before anyone jumps all over me, I know there are custodial fathers out there and deadbeat moms too, but we don't hear story after story of fathers living in poverty with their kids).

no one has commented this yet:
"i've counseled teenage girls with anorexia, bulimia, depression, SUICIDE". SUICIDE? did you talk to their tortured spirits from the great beyond? now you are a medium too? ambitious bitch, i say.

Gotcha FEMily, I was trying to imply that the rhythm method IS just another form of birth control and that Stenzel might not be using a chemical/latex kind. And yeah, they probably don't believe that the rhythm method or abstinence is a form of birth control and so they make excuses for themselves, just like a lot of those anti-choice women who get abortions and then make excuses for themselves. ;)

"JivinJ. Wow. He/r post is an excellent example of the kind of irrational sexist crap anti-choicers spew."

Yeah, and did you check out her blog. She goes on about how Jessica doesn't know what she's talking about because she just didn't listen *closely* enough to the video. Ugh. anti-choice crap indeed! To top it off I also saw another post where her and her friends also convinced another girl to go through with her pregnancy because "abortion = baby killing", or something like that.

Hey, I think she seemed really nice. I mean clearly she's spreading mis-information in a public forum, but she really is very engaging. And i'm not sure if the whole suicide, anorexia thing was so much a lie as it was misleading. She said she had seen girls with those problems, not that all people who have abortions get those problems. I'm not saying I agree with her stance at all, but personally, I could see her being a some Liberal's pro-life Republican friend, (or mother).

meeneecat,
My first impulse was to laugh a little. I mean, how stupid can you be to put, "Another Less Than Sharp Post from Jessica Valenti," in raging banner across your personal webpage and not expect for her (or anyone on this site) to catch it?

I'm not however, opposed to free speech. I AM opposed to rhetorical, offensive, anti-feminist, and anti-choice blatherings that do nothing but limit progress in this country. They use speech to take away our freedoms, so we should take away theirs.

Celeste, that's the biggest problem. Like Arendt said, evil is banal.

" This woman has three kids. That means she's either only been married for 3 years or she and her husband used some method of birth control during their relationship."

...or she and/or her husband have one of those STDs that reduces fertility? I've heard of some couples having fewer than 1 baby per year or so for that reason.

"I know I've harped on this a lot but what irks the fuck out of me for these anti-choice/anti-sex people is their complete inability to see women as INDIVIDUALS. We are NOT the Borg. We do NOT have one hive mind."

Speaking of hives...

...I've noticed that some anti-choicers out there seem to think that you shouldn't want sex unless you want to get married and have tons of kids (by having unprotected sex with your spouse from your teens to your or your wife's menopause) and that everyone else should be celibate and second banana to these families. Does that remind anyone else of how some species of bee's colonies work (queen lays tons of eggs, workers lay none, etc.)?

"I count rhythm as a birth control method. I count abstinence as birth control if that's the person's intention."

Me too.

"And yeah, they probably don't believe that the rhythm method or abstinence is a form of birth control and so they make excuses for themselves, just like a lot of those anti-choice women who get abortions and then make excuses for themselves. ;)"

Yeah, probably.

Jessica,
JivinJ, I didn't say she lied about counseling teens. Perhaps it's you that needs to take a closer look. She's saying that ALL women suffer from abortions.

Your post claims she lies because she tells girls "abortion makes girls anorexic, depressed and suicidal. "

In the video you posted, the only time Stenzel mentions abortion is when she talks about how she's counseled women who've had abortions. She never once says anything like "all abortions lead to depression, etc." To say that she says something like that means you are either incredibly dishonest or unable to understand simple language. If I claim I've talked women who've experienced physical complications from Lasik eye surgery that in no way indicates I'm claiming every woman who has had Lasik eye surgery has experience physical complications.

Telling women that taking birth control will make you more likely to die and be sterile is NOT true. SHE IS LYING. Just because she does it with finesse doesn't change that fact.

Again, that's not what she said. She said teens who take hormonal birth control (in an effort to protect themselves from pregnancy) are more likely to contract a STD. Some STD lead to sterility and death. She never claimed hormonal birth control "could kill them."

In a post where you claim someone is lying, it seems fairly clear that you intentionally misrepresented what they said. At first, I was going to believe that you merely misunderstood Pam. Now I'm fairly certain you knew exactly what she said and you decided to misrepresent it.

Meencat,
Originally, I was giving Jessica the benefit of the doubt - that she misunderstood (and made an honest mistake about the birth control claim) but now with Jessica's response, I'm fairly certain Jessica was being intentionally deceptive. Would I be less sexist if I just assumed Jessica was being intentionally deceptive from the start?

Gopher,
Why on earth would you think that I would think Jessica would miss my post? I post a comment on her blog with my web site address.

JJ, you have an anti-choice agenda so I'm really not going to engage with you. You can jump around her semantics all you like, but her message is clear - and dishonest. If I was really misrepresenting what she said, don't you think someone else (besides the lone, I think, anti-choice voice) on the thread would notice? Or is there something about believing in limiting women's rights that gives you some special power that no one else has?

Of course I broke my own don't feed the troll rule. Sigh.

She came and spoke to my youth group way back in the day when she was in Minneapolis. I was in junior high, and she scared the living daylights out of me and I wasn't even really that interested in the opposite sex.

The problem is, she cites statistics out of context and the youth she speaks to don't know the context of the studies. I certainly didn't. Yes, the stats may be correct, but they aren't the full story. She may not be outright deceptive, but failing to provide context is nearly as bad in my view.

I remember seeing her speak when I was much younger...I think I was like 7. Fortunately, I was too young to get much out of it. I do, however, remember my father standing up and yelling, "Amen! Preach it sister!"

Needless to say, my father and I are not on the best terms.

I can't believe parents actually encourage their children to listen to nonsense like this.

Jessica – I am definitely pro-choice, and I also agree that abstinence only sex education is incredibly dangerous. I have to agree with JJ, however, about the birth control comment. In my opinion, she is clearly saying that STDs can kill you or leave you sterile, not birth control. I don’t think it would ruin her day if kids left the lecture thinking that birth control will leave them sterile or dead, but she did not say that at any point in the presentation.

I also heard the "she could end up sterile or dead" thing as a result of STDs, but the way she said it really made it run into the pill comment. It's very misleading, and she never addresses the fact that good sexual education, access to good contraception and a change in our social welfare could solve most of these problems.

I do, however, agree that people pay when they have sex. Do you know how many post-lovin-so-good-I-worked -up-an-appetite pizzas I've bought? I probably would save a lot of money if I didn't fall for so many cute guys and girls who want pre-marital sex and visits at work where I bring them coffee.

I think the most disturbing part was when she talked about the pregnant 12 yo and completely left out male responsibility. The younger a girl is when she becomes pregnant, the more likely it is that the guy who did it is significantly older. A pregnant 18 or 19 year old probably has an 18 or 19 yo boyfriend (or close to it). A pregnant 12 yo almost certainly didn't get that way by means of another 12 yo. (Most 12 yo boys are incapable, anyway) More likely, the guy was out of high school.

All this talk about women and sexuality, and how we ought all say "no," but not a damn word about some guy fucking a middle schooler?

If a man knocks up a middle schooler, it's not the middle schooler's fault for "making a bad decision," it's a grown man's fault for being a fucking pedophile.

And what a crock of shit that was about how "pregnancy is survivable." Like pregnancy was even the scary part of the equation.

It's not the pregnancy itself that people are afraid of, you blooming idiot, it's the years of parenthood following it. There's few things more terrifying than such a massive responsibility being foisted upon a person who is, herself, just a child.

And trust, though you openly sympathized with the males in a way you never did with the females, the males in this equation are simply not expected to do as much as the females, they do not carry as much responsibility towards a child as the mothers do in our culture.

Fuck you, useless speaker, for trivilizing the desire to get an education rather than raising kids in poverty.

She emailed me back saying I must've never seen her talk because she DOES talk about condoms and birth control. Except condoms don't prevent HPV and herpes.

Jivinj,

These are her exact words:

"that drug, that hormone, that pill, that shot, that this girl is taking has just made her 10 times more likely to contract a disease than if she were not taking that drug, this girl could end up sterile or dead"

So no, I do believe shes specifically making out BC to leading to sterility, or death.

"Why on earth would you think that I would think Jessica would miss my post?"

I was laughing at the stupidity of putting your post on a feminist forum, whereby you ignorantly (because youre all anti-choice en' all) insulted one of the creators of the site. I'm all for freedom of speech, but when its stupidly used, I cant help but laugh.

GopherII - We are reading the same sentence and understanding two different things. Strange.

Look I'm 18 and a total feminist (I read your book by the way! Looove it! ?) but I honestly don't see the problem with Pam Stenzel's Sex STILL Has a Price Tag. I live in N.C. and my school teaches abstinence only of coarse and I first watched this with the school nurse. It was supposed to be a seminar to help parents talk to their children about sex but my mom and I were the only ones that came to it. As a teeen I think she educates and understands what we,as teenagers are going through and she actually says that if you are going to do it then use protection and that just using birth control is not enough.

I totally agree with Beckie183, after the other comments I've seen, I think some of this girls are being soooooo THIN skin, they are taking it too personal, I can't believe some of them actually felt insulted. She is just spitting out facts! in her own way, for us to be informed, and less ignorant about sex and relationships!

I used to be a skeptic. I thought all the christian, mumbo-jumbo, don't-have-sex-or-you'll go-to-hell thing was crap, but then i saw Pam. She's an incredible speaker, and for all of you who are curious as to where she gets her facts from, SHE WORKED AT A PREGNANCY CRISIS CENTER FOR 9 YEARS, but i guess you didn't hear that part. And i never heard her say one word of "woman hate!" Only warning young women of the dangers of having sex outside of a monogomous relationship. She definately helped me to make the desicion to wait untill i'm married to have sex.

Pam is completely Kosher and treats young woman like they have a brain. If anything she teachs woman to take charge of their sexuality instead of being victims to be manipulated by men. She also gives the truth on birth control and abortion. Both are harmful to a woman's health and mind. The standard condom for example can not stop an Aids virus. It goes right through. If you have ever witnessed someone you care about dying from aids you would be angry about the lies told young people about birth control and condoms. The reason Pam is effective is she tells the facts. The facts are frightening. Cervical cancer is chiefly caused by multiple partners. It used to be seen only in prostitutes because of the abuse their cervix would receive from their many johns. This activity tears tissue and opens the surfaces to infections that migrate into cancers. This is the truth. But to hear drug companies tell this is something that all woman are vunerable to and they have a new drug that can prevent it. And further we should get all of our daughters on this stuff. Then, very quickly they say the numreous contraindications on the drug. If you have Pam speak at your Church or School you are blessed. She does not mince words and has the facts.

40 years ago my Mom and I talked openly about sex. A religious woman she did not talk about morality as much as she talked about choices and a gift I could only give once. She wanted me to have all the choices in my life and not to be forced to make choices because of a poor choice to have sex as a young person. She also shared that your first time is something you can only share once and it is a gift you don't give away lightly. Little did she know that science would bear her out in her wisdom to take with me frankly. Scientists have determined that the human brains reasoning centers do not fully develope untill we are well in to our 20s. Young people need help and direction in these areas and they want it. If a teen can't remember to pick up their cloths,do their homework,take their vitamins,come home on time do you think for a moment they can be relied upon to take birth control pills and use condoms everytime? This is pure stupidity on the part of parents.

Today at 50 I chose a career and have never married. Today I am still living a abstinate life. I took charge of my body because I value myself above any man's desires. I am happy and healthy. I have been free to help and be available to care for my Mother who passed from her fourth bout with cancer and help my Father after his open heart surgery. I have a full and demanding life and career. Most folks wonder where I get the energy including ladies who have had many children. I think their lives are far more demanding than mine. I admire them. The girls I hung around often comment I look 10 years younger than they do. Lifestyle does show on your face. The girls I new who lived lives where they honored fidelity do look younger. Those that chose the other road often look older than their years. The validity of a lifestyle is often reflected in the face. I remember a wonderful man who had been very active and militant in gay rights the majority of his life. In the last ten years of his life he came to a personal relationship with the creator. He had decided to change his lifestyle but it was not soon enough for him to avoid Aids. He told me that he was 58 years old. He told me he knew he looked much older. He did. He looked at least 20 years older. He said he wanted to tell his story to as many people as he could before God took him home so maybe just one person could not go down the road he did. He had tears in his eyes. I hugged him and said God is so proud of you and he will help you achieve your goal. The following year he passed from complications due to aids. I am sure he accomplished his goal. It's folks like Pam, this gentlemen and my courageous and wise mother that tell the truth about the hazards of carnality. Sex is a beautiful thing when is in the right context. When we use it purely for personal gratification it becomes like glutony a means to our distruction.

Pam is completely Kosher and treats young woman like they have a brain. If anything she teachs woman to take charge of their sexuality instead of being victims to be manipulated by men. She also gives the truth on birth control and abortion. Both are harmful to a woman's health and mind. The standard condom for example can not stop an Aids virus. It goes right through. If you have ever witnessed someone you care about dying from aids you would be angry about the lies told young people about birth control and condoms. The reason Pam is effective is she tells the facts. The facts are frightening. Cervical cancer is chiefly caused by multiple partners. It used to be seen only in prostitutes because of the abuse their cervix would receive from their many johns. This activity tears tissue and opens the surfaces to infections that migrate into cancers. This is the truth. But to hear drug companies tell this is something that all woman are vunerable to and they have a new drug that can prevent it. And further we should get all of our daughters on this stuff. Then, very quickly they say the numreous contraindications on the drug. If you have Pam speak at your Church or School you are blessed. She does not mince words and has the facts.

40 years ago my Mom and I talked openly about sex. A religious woman she did not talk about morality as much as she talked about choices and a gift I could only give once. She wanted me to have all the choices in my life and not to be forced to make choices because of a poor choice to have sex as a young person. She also shared that your first time is something you can only share once and it is a gift you don't give away lightly. Little did she know that science would bear her out in her wisdom to take with me frankly. Scientists have determined that the human brains reasoning centers do not fully develope untill we are well in to our 20s. Young people need help and direction in these areas and they want it. If a teen can't remember to pick up their cloths,do their homework,take their vitamins,come home on time do you think for a moment they can be relied upon to take birth control pills and use condoms everytime? This is pure stupidity on the part of parents.

Today at 50 I chose a career and have never married. Today I am still living a abstinate life. I took charge of my body because I value myself above any man's desires. I am happy and healthy. I have been free to help and be available to care for my Mother who passed from her fourth bout with cancer and help my Father after his open heart surgery. I have a full and demanding life and career. Most folks wonder where I get the energy including ladies who have had many children. I think their lives are far more demanding than mine. I admire them. The girls I hung around often comment I look 10 years younger than they do. Lifestyle does show on your face. The girls I new who lived lives where they honored fidelity do look younger. Those that chose the other road often look older than their years. The validity of a lifestyle is often reflected in the face. I remember a wonderful man who had been very active and militant in gay rights the majority of his life. In the last ten years of his life he came to a personal relationship with the creator. He had decided to change his lifestyle but it was not soon enough for him to avoid Aids. He told me that he was 58 years old. He told me he knew he looked much older. He did. He looked at least 20 years older. He said he wanted to tell his story to as many people as he could before God took him home so maybe just one person could not go down the road he did. He had tears in his eyes. I hugged him and said God is so proud of you and he will help you achieve your goal. The following year he passed from complications due to aids. I am sure he accomplished his goal. It's folks like Pam, this gentlemen and my courageous and wise mother that tell the truth about the hazards of carnality. Sex is a beautiful thing when is in the right context. When we use it purely for personal gratification it becomes like glutony a means to our distruction.

Watch this video and draw your own conclusions if this information not useful.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2088786371299544416

One last thing I would liket to point out. You will wait in long lines to see a movie, you will wait in a favorite restaurant for a table, you will wait at check out to pay for a pack of cigarettes. Isn't it more important to wait for the beautiful experience of first time with someone you are truely committed with to share the most precious thing you own? Yourself.