Jessica, your past, mistakes and triumphs both, is 100% yours so I think this post is totally appropriate.
Kudos for doing the right thing. The crap going down has been ugly but I think things, once they heal, will be much better than before.

Feminist self-reflection is the best kind of self-reflection!! Keep your eyes open s you move forward. Thanks for giving a voice to some great thoughts.

This is a little tangential, but how much control do you have over things like covers and titles? I'm thinking specifically of a book in my field entitled Ancient Christian Magic, which should not have been called that. The authors begged the publisher to call it something more representative of what the book was actually about, but the publisher felt that the title would make money, and overruled them. Other professors of mine have similar stories about their books. How much, as an author, does your voice count, if the publisher has decided they want something?

Thank you for sharing this with us Jess! I heart you.

Always remember the history of "trashing" in the feminist community.

Just about every feminist writer who got published was trashed about one thing or another.

It was basically a game of "wack-a-mole" -- if you head was above the pack -- someone felt it necessary to knock it down.

Some criticism was warranted, but much was just envy, jealousy, and a sort of misguided egalitarianism.

You are not liable for the things you cannot control.

You are also allowed to be young. You have a responsibility to grow, to change, to refine.

Now that you have done your mea culps, don't let any mistakes silence you. Your passion and talent has made feminism more popular among the "post-feminist" folks.

Keep up the good work.
By the way, if your writing strikes a chord, if it resonates with its audience, you will raise above the pack.

There is nothing wrong with that. At least you can get a message across that others can't.

I agree with astroyoga, if you can't take a step back, look at what you've done, and realize where it fits in to (or works against) the bigger picture, you're not going to get anywhere. Thanks for being so honest with yourself and us. I know I will try to turn the honesty back toward myself, and I'm sure other readers will, too.

Being able to show others our ability to reflect and to take subsequent responsibility for our actions means awareness and growth as an individual. More than anything, I appreciate that as a role model you've had the awareness to identify your conciousness and share that with us. I do believe if as individuals we spoke with more awareness and gentleness towards our self growth, it would be easier to progress. However, taking criticism is no easy thing, and for you in a public forum requires strong self worth and self-esteem that we can all learn from. Thanks for sharing, much appreciated!

"Just about every feminist writer who got published was trashed about one thing or another.

It was basically a game of "wack-a-mole" -- if you head was above the pack -- someone felt it necessary to knock it down."

WOW. It only took FIVE posts to get back to "those WOC are just JEALOUS"

... and you people wonder why so many of us are so disgusted with "Feminism."

Jessica and the rest of the Feministing crew, you've all been an inspiration, and will continue to be, as long as you keep fighting for what you believe in. You all are wonderful role models for us lost 20-somethings, looking for something bigger than ourselves. We recognize our voices in yours.
We need you!! Thanks for all your hard work.

Jessica, I've never viewed your work as non-antiracist. It always seemed to me that those attacks were baseless (although, I haven't read either of your books). I thought that your book-cover was wonderful. I didn't think it was racist because the skin color was a brownish color, which is probably the skin color of most of the people in the world. And, I have yet to find any blog posts on Feministing that I would consider racist or non-antiracist. So, I say, keep up the good work.

Jessica, this is the first time that I've posted on the site, but I read it everyday! I just want to tell you how much I admire the work you (and the other wonderful feministing bloggers!) do, and also how much I admire your introspection. Just don't let anybody tell you that you aren't a wonderful, positive voice for young women! Keep up the good work, and I can't wait to read your new book!

Thanks to folks for the support, but I just want to make sure it's clear that I'm not looking for an okay or a pass. No cookies for me. And I really don't want this thread to become a place where folks dismiss criticism in the same way I did. Thanks.

I second frijolera.

While I do think, and am reassured by, the active criticisms within feminist communities I don't think feminism has a particular history of "trashing".

One of the best parts of feminism, for me, is the active, critical dialog. In order for this to happen criticism (both giving and taking) is imperative. So, instead of looking about it as a game "wack-a-mole" let it this post (and other post referred to within it) be seen as feminists working to make this particular medium better.

We, as feminists, should welcome criticism (and debate) because it gives us a chance to improve feminist discourse. We should never feel like we can't (or shouldn't) disagree with each other. We would always be thinking, not being thought for.

Jess, i think taking the time to reflect and especially to consider where you've done wrong and how to do better next time is crucial. I think this post is not only appropriate but necessary and a long time coming. Making it personal doesn't mean you think you're the center of the conflict - it means you see your place in the issue and take responsibility for where you fit, your privilege, and what you need to do next. This was a great first step (even if for you it didn't feel like a "first step") because it begins a conversation about all of our personal responsibility.

I think it's easy to turn around and make this about who's jealous of who, why white feminists "will never understand," or "why many [WoC] are so disgusted with 'Feminism'." But i don't think that's where this conversation needs to head. Mainly because it's been down that road so many times before, especially in the past few days. Everyone's hurt right now, emotions are raw and people are pissed. IMO, rightfully so. But i think you writing this post and making it personal allows for vulnerability for for the conversation to progress, not to regress to the same points that have been made in the comment sections of post after post in this and other blogs. I think, rather, we need to talk about finding ways to come together and unite as a movement. Whether that means critically listening to one another more, reading more, accepting and embracing more, i don't know.

All i know is if we, as a movement, have alienated anyone (including but not limited to WoC) we have failed as a movement. This failure doesn't give us the right to ignore our mistakes and move along. It also doesn't give us the right to pack it in. What it does is allow us to learn from our mistakes and hopefully do better next time. I hope we can all learn from each other, listen to one another, and do better. We simply need to do better.

and i second rhiannon, 100%

"We, as feminists, should welcome criticism (and debate) because it gives us a chance to improve feminist discourse. We should never feel like we can't (or shouldn't) disagree with each other. We would always be thinking, not being thought for."

frijolera said: "WOW. It only took FIVE posts to get back to 'those WOC are just JEALOUS'"

I didn't take it that way at all. No where in that did it say "WOC are just JEALOUS."

In response to Jessica's post, I just finished FFF, last night. I really enjoyed it. There is a lot about Feminism I didn't realize. All the other -isms really do affect us. They're not separate aspects; they really overlap and intersect. I didn't see this. That is one thing I'm going to work on too. Being the stereotypical feminist norm (white, middle class, hetero, woman)I never really paid attention to the other -isms. Now, I will and I will not stay silent. Thanks, Jessica, for continuing the journey and for allowing us into your personal feelings. It's hard to be that vulnerable, but so helpful for those of us still trying to find our footing.

Jessica -

Thank you for writing this post. Just two things:

1. In your comment above, you wrote this, "I just want to make sure it's clear that I'm looking for an okay or a pass. "

but I think you meant "...that I'm NOT looking for an okay or a pass." Yes?

2. Many of the blogs that cover politics and seek to highlight smaller blogs have started to do state-by-state lists. As a blogger who is female in Ohio, who attended WAM! this year and became VERY envious of how many women's orgs and bloggers there are, I would love to see a state-by-state Feministing-anchored blogroll. I'm not aware of anything available like that now. Perhaps there are "rings" but maybe a roll would be better?

Thanks for your hard work. You should be proud of yourself and of your hope for growing, and, hopefully, of actually growing! :)

At almost 46, sometimes I am quite sure that I'm still just starting.

Hahah, yes - thanks Jill!

frijolera, I understood that comment as actually specifically talking about white feminists, not WOC feminists. I think there might even be cases where WOC feminists were subject to the "whack-a-mole" referenced... specifically for speaking out as WOC who didn't think the movement should be all about white women.

But I am not a WOC myself and don't know much of the history of feminism, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I state facts from our past -- and, it's turned into an attack on WOC.

In words of the internet -- WTF?

Once again, we are back to the same old stuff.

What I posted had nothing to do with WOC -- it could just as well have been any other transgression.

My point was that we will all make mistakes. We will - if we have any integrity - do our utmost to correct our errors, grow, and change.

At the very same time -- it does us ALL a disservice to silence a strong community voice.

This is about going on, accepting our mistakes, and growing.

No matter the issue -- "trashing" is an old tradition in the world of Feminism -- and mistakes are used to attack Feminism, or justify why "I will never be a Feminist".

People often work against their self-interest. It's been done in the past -- and will be done again.

I hope we can learn from ALL our mistakes.

I agree with frijolera. The argument that feminists should blindly support anything another feminist publishes, and that to do otherwise is out of jealousy, works to silence very legitimate concerns. Totally unacceptable .

Part of the reason I am so addicted to Feministing is because I always get the impression that you are constantly introspective. Also, I second Feministgal.

I just finished FFF, and I found your later chapters on intersectionality and male feminists the most interesting and most important of the book (for me, I’m already a feminist). That’s where feminism is leading right now. I could just see your thoughts evolving. As a writer, I know that bubbling feeling when an idea or an understanding is beginning to form. It’s exciting, and confusing, and it calls for introspection. I think this post is appropriate, and awesome, but I never doubted you were doing all these things from the beginning: the work does speak for itself.

Intersectionality is going to be a clash for a while (a long while)- between feminism and WoC, male allies, and LGBTQ groups. I think you are doing exactly the right thing to guide it into progressiveness and productivity.

My own confession: In all honesty, I’m pretty quick to dismiss men from the discussion, especially when they’re aggressive. Knee jerk reaction, and I’ve got awesome pro fem men in my life. I also think that feminism needs to be far more inclusive of WoC waaay before we can get to men. In a big fucking way. Maybe I’m not being inclusive enough. Maybe I’m mad. Ok, I am mad.

You see? Feministing makes so many young women confront themselves, so go on, girl. And even though you keep saying you’re not trying to get kudos, we WANT to give them to you. So there.

"WOW. It only took FIVE posts to get back to "those WOC are just JEALOUS"

... and you people wonder why so many of us are so disgusted with "Feminism."

Posted by: frijolera"

Really????

I remember when Susan Brownmiller published her book on rape and was verbally beaten up by those who didn't or couldn't write it. Robin Morgan was told not to publish her writing under a by-line and then to not write at all because her style was too distinctive.

These were white women trashing white women.

Trashing was what destroyed the feminist movement during the 1970s.

Google Jo Freeman"s piece on "Trashing".

Much of trashing is and was jealousy based rather than real issues based. It tears down those who do anything.

I often think the worst crime white feminist women have committed is being feminist and putting women first.

Indeed one of the main tenets of radical feminism was, "It is not a question of it being radical or reformist but rather is it good for women?'

Feminism makes the personal political and asks, "Is it good for women?"

I agree with T-Monster that the sections on men and feminism are the most interesting and different of the book.

For what it's worth, I would like to see this blog tackle issues of class as well as race. When I teach US exchange students they all want to talk about race and, while this is vital in the way we engage with society, they could benefit from a more nuanced approach to class. It is when this blog engages with the matrix of influences that form women's lives that it is at it's most lively.

Thanks for pledging to do better and owning your own mistakes (and your accomplishments). This is what I would have loved to see from Seal Press, Amanda, etc.

I think you've done an amazing job making feminism accessible, interesting, and compelling for young men like myself.

The work you do is invaluable and influencing the views of many men and women.

I think self-criticism is important and invaluable, but don't lose sight of all the amazingly thing you have accomplished while you are thinking about the ideas, thoughts, and things that you want to change.

Dear Jessica (I actually thought of writing this letter when I first read FFF, but it seems most appropriate now),

Thank you. Your goal in writing this book was to reach out to young women who were previously ashamed or hesitant to call themselves a feminist and, after reading your book, will never feel reluctant again. I am evidence that you achieved your goal.

I went to a well-respected, all-women liberal arts college but I wouldn't call myself a feminist. I'm ashamed to say I would use "pussy" to make fun of someone. I also KNEW I was a feminist and reproductive rights is my biggest passion, but I was afraid of how I would be perceived.

During a difficult part of my young life, when I needed something to help form who I wanted (and continue to strive) to become, I picked up your book and devoured it. It was just the bold proclamation I had been starving for. Now armed with arguments for any nay-sayer, I have become a more well-rounded, articulate, and intelligent woman. Because of FFF and Feministing, I am more ME than ever before.

Thank you.

Today, feminism is so stigmatized as being unnecessary after all the work of the second wave and the false sense of equality that was created. It is also criticized by feminists and non-feminists alike for not fully addressing the issues of racism and other intersecting oppressions--which both of the waves before us failed to acknowledge on a large scale. You, and other famous third wavers, are taking the brunt of all of this because of the desire and the importance of the third wave to be different and to really address how women cannot reach equality without liberating all of those who are oppressed, and to acknowledge that these intersecting oppressions can make women's experiences different from one another--all of which you understand.

Best of luck with all of this! You are growing even more as feminist and are setting a great example for the rest of us who are finding our paths.

I appreciate your honesty and I can see that I have a lot I can learn from you if I ever want to write in the future.

--Sara

I like this post. Your blog and book are what got me into feminism. And, I can understand the frustration of some of the posters here, but ultimately you can't change who you are - you can just realize how what you were born as gives you advantages and disadvantages. And it seems like you're doing that, and we are all working to level the playing field, for EVERYONE.

So, yeah. Thanks for posting this.

Dear Jessica (I actually thought of writing this letter when I first read FFF, but it seems most appropriate now),

Thank you. Your goal in writing this book was to reach out to young women who were previously ashamed or hesitant to call themselves a feminist and, after reading your book, will never feel reluctant again. I am evidence that you achieved your goal.

I went to a well-respected, all-women liberal arts college but I wouldn't call myself a feminist. I'm ashamed to say I would use "pussy" to make fun of someone. I also KNEW I was a feminist and reproductive rights is my biggest passion, but I was afraid of how I would be perceived.

During a difficult part of my young life, when I needed something to help form who I wanted (and continue to strive) to become, I picked up your book and devoured it. It was just the bold proclamation I had been starving for. Now armed with arguments for any nay-sayer, I have become a more well-rounded, articulate, and intelligent woman. Because of FFF and Feministing, I am more ME than ever before.

Thank you.

Thanks for pledging to do better and owning your own mistakes (and your accomplishments). This is what I would have loved to see from Seal Press, Amanda, etc.

Stole the words right out of my mouth, diablaazul!

I have no illusions as to why my work has gotten the press that it has. The media likes nothing more than a young sassy white feminist who is mainstream-friendly.

Thank you for acknowledging this. You forgot cute/beautiful/photogenic. Don't be modest, esp in light of the comparison the press made between you and Marcia Pappas - Who BTW looks less mad in person.

Thank you for acknowledging the cult of personality that surrounds F'ing and your desire to ignore it. I understand the desire to create something that is not you, but is yours. It's a hard line to walk.

With a huge soap box comes huge responsibility. You've been dodging it, but I look forward to you facing and embracing it in the future.

This post makes me proud to read this blog.

I also thought the "trashing" statement was more about mainstream feminists(read:mostly white) bashing other mainstream feminists. Jealousy would be a factor here but I didn't get the same message from it that some other people seemed to. On top of all that, it seems like there's a lot more bashing coming from outside feminism than within it. So I'm not even sure where this all fits.

I'm a long time reader and occasional poster of Feministing. I love this site! I love all the wonderful women who keep me informed, enlightened and checked on a daily basis.

I've also watched all this stuff go down. Even though I never read her, I hate that Brownfemipower became a casualty of this skirmish. I didn't have to read her to be confident that her voice was necessary and vital to anti-racism and feminism.

In all this, I've developed a thicker skin. WOC feminists or activists--however THEY choose to define themselves--don't have to be nice to me any more than I have to be nice to a well-intentioned progressive male who doesn't recognize his male privelege. I have to accept that I will be told things in a way that may hurt my feelings. But hey! I'm a grown-ass woman. I can handle it. Now, that doesn't mean I'll take abuse or a brow-beating. What it means is that I will listen when I want to talk. I will listen even when it's uncom fortable.

I very much support what Jessica said about making this movement better. Not to be too Pollyanna here, but I'm glad this happened. It's got us talking, and that can only be good. I'd much rather us fight it out if we have to than not talk about it at all.

Jessica, I clicked every link you shared and cried a little over how hard this all has been. Please know that although I've been a feminist all my life, you are very much an inspiration to this 46 year old sister in arms.

I think that frijolera's comments make perfect sense in the context of the "recent happenings" as Jessica calls them. TABW's post linked above was spot on. I know that young white fems believe that they are reclaiming or reframing feminism but they are really just nit picking over the same bourgeois ground while missing so much of what's going on outside of their rarefied world. Being involved has to include more than just posting a link. Doesn't it?

Good lord, can we quit it with the "don't let those meanie poopy-heads who dared say bad things about your work influence you" comments?

Yes, she does have stuff to apologize for, and no, the apologies won't make everything all better. The Comfort Brigade does not need to storm this post to tell her how perfect she is and how jealous everyone else is.

Well, there could be more posts about feminist issues for WoC and how they are different than for white women. Also, when there is a post about race for example there could be more analysis of how the issue intersects with feminism. I say these things because I am quite uninformed about these issues that sound like they are becoming more important in the feminist movement. It would be great to learn more from this blog.

jessica,

i really appreciate this post and i want to take a moment to say "thank you" for all the great stuff you've done (and for creating a forum with which to keep my friend sami off the streets a little longer :P)...

also, i hope that all of the stuff that's gone around recently has really opened up a lot of people to what care is required for (a) really forward pushing movement(s)...

that said, movement is the key... your statement here shows you in a very different place than you were when receiving criticism for the FFF cover... because you've moved from that place... and give thanks... give thanks that we're all capable of evolution, learning to listen and change, openness, healing and so forth... and may strength come from all of those things...

it's problematic, of course, that even in response to your post about moving forward with a right mind, there are those who want to cast legitimate concerns and grievances as "jealousy", but may those people not be you... and may they find the courage you're now finding to grow and learn to be compassionate and attentive and humble.

particularly, the events and situations to which you are responding are real and it's a credit to you as an evolving being that you recognize... may it inform all the things you do... and i hope i can, in whatever ways (such as getting back into commenting here and in other places), draw some strength from your strength...

peace and blessings

I think positive feedback is just as important as criticism, so please, Jessica, keep doing things to make feminism accessible and relevant. Reading this blog made me more aware of feminism, but it also made me more aware to racism, transphobia, homophobia and class issues. If you want to do better, include more posts on issues that effect women who aren't rich, white and straight, and show how feminism intersects with movements to end all different forms of discrimination. Also, I'd love to see more guest bloggers. I really enjoyed Julia Serano's post yesterday, btw.

I haven't read most of this controversial stuff, but I glanced at the comments on this thread, and i think an attitude that doesn't help this movement, is seperating woc issues and feminist issues :

"Intersectionality is going to be a clash for a while (a long while)- between feminism and WoC, male allies, and LGBTQ groups. "

There is no clash between feminism and women of color, lgbtq issues, and any other issues that impact women. To talk about a clash between feminism and woc you are already separating feminism from woc, and defining it as something that is not specifically about woc.

It's like, speaking about an issue from only your own perspective.

But I dunno!

Clips is right on. These comments are really disturbing. It seems many readers read every entry (and FFF) and never have any problems whatsoever with the content. In fact, if appears that many readers have identified with Jessica so much they take her acknowledgment of mistake to be an insult.

One problem with this site is that much of the dialog isn't very constructive or critical. Sometimes it reads like a propaganda machine rather than a place where feminist discuss, debate and encourage worthwhile discourse. So rather than inspiring readers to think about something it seems that many readers are coming to feministing to have their feminist identities/opinions constructed for them.

One example would be the numerous of posts on "sexist" advertisements. Rarely does the post, or discussion, really uncover the implications of such advertisements, who they appeal to, why they are appealing and why they might not be so problematic. Instead it's a lot of "look, she's bent over! so sexist! bad for women!" followed up by a lot of posts that read "I hate sexist advertisements too!"

Rhiannon, this is kind of deviating from the original thread here, but I'm going to have to disagree with your statement about sexist advertisement posts. I'm positive that you could find some posts about ads or products here which might not have the deepest, most intellectual and comprehensive analysis, but I have actually learned a lot about sexism in ads by reading feministing. Almost always someone points out who the ad is targeted to, what the various parts of it mean or symbolize, how it fits in with other messages coming from mainstream media, how it's different or similar to other ads, how it addresses or doesn't address the actual use of the product, and on and on. My interest in feminism certainly extends beyond scrutinizing ads, but it's actually one of my favorite parts of feministing, possibly because I've never had anyone to share opinions with about things like that before. Someone always ends up bring up a point I didn't think of before.

"My interest in feminism certainly extends beyond scrutinizing ads, but it's actually one of my favorite parts of feministing, possibly because I've never had anyone to share opinions with about things like that before. Someone always ends up bring up a point I didn't think of before."

maybe. but even still i think i find those posts particularly repetitive.

You could make an argument for them being repetitive, particularly those which cover similar ads or products. However, discourse about them isn't something that I see lacking overall.

I think it's fair to make the connection between the cries of 'you're just jealous' addressed to woc's in recent days as a result of their legitimate anger toward white feminist bloggers, and the comment on this thread that talks of 'envy' and 'jealousy' towards feminist writers who are published.

What is the point of bringing it up, unless it is to draw parallels with recent occurances?
This is a comment in solidarity with Jessica, to remind her to keep her head above the 'jealousy' of woc. It is obvious to all, yet out come white feminists to defend it because it does not explicitly state that 'woc are just jealous so keep your head up', even if the sentiment behind it is exactly that.

I had not commented at all up until now, which is my style anyway, but I can say that you can add me to the list of woc that white feminism has alienated.

I do realise that some of you have agreed with frijolera's concerns, but damn, am I pissed off.

"One problem with this site is that much of the dialog isn't very constructive or critical. Sometimes it reads like a propaganda machine rather than a place where feminist discuss, debate and encourage worthwhile discourse. So rather than inspiring readers to think about something it seems that many readers are coming to feministing to have their feminist identities/opinions constructed for them."

rhiannon, i agree with this 100%. lurking in the threads (and sometimes participating) i have found that many times when someone seems to fall "out of line" with the common theme of *this particular constructed feminism*, there are *many* loyal posters who jump on that person as a troll, a sexist, a rape apologist, etc whatever. and perhaps at times this is true - i'm sure of that. but the fact that critical discussion here is minimal is not an accident. it would seem that a different voice is often silenced out of knee-jerk reactions from loyal posters who assume one is a troll. even worse, what i have found, is often one will be told their opinion is not right and to go "educate themselves" and read a list of books or articles, etc, which to me indicates that one could not *possibly* hold an outside belief if they had read the proper literature. It *is* possible to disagree, challenge, or criticize with feminist rhetoric while being educated at the same time. A person is not a sponge that literally soaks up all the major concepts of feminism,asking no questions. Feminism is about asking questions, challenging the conventional, and thinking critically about world, including challenging constructed feminisms as well...

jxthree, it's really not "obvious to all." At least, not to me. I can see both sides of it but that doesn't necessarily mean that either one is right or wrong.

And yet I recognize that part of this is my white privilege talking... so how do we (whether "we" is white feminists or all feminists) solve a problem like this? How do we (again, whomever you choose to include as "we") highlight this privilege before it even arises? I feel like it is white women's responsibility to recognize things like this before they even happen, yet how can I know my own specific ignorances before they are pointed out to me by those who know better? I don't feel like it is your (or any WOC's) responsibility to point these out every time, and yet I don't know how to identify them without making the mistake first and then being corrected.

I guess this is the reason it is so hard for whites and POCs to talk about race in the first place. :/

I think whether Jessica truly does make mistakes or whether she does things that are blown out of proportion by people expecting her to be the pinnacle of feminism, we are all human and deserving of respect & understanding. Jessica is part of a team of (awesome) feminists that run a more increasingly well known website about feminism.. that doesnt make her perfect in all things feminist...yes, she should be held accountable for her mistakes, but she shouldnt be crucified for them.

Personally, I think all the women here are doing great things for feminism. And not to stir up another debate about the FFF book cover, but I have to say that reading it on the F train brought a lot of stares...it caught people's attention and in my mind, if more people realized that lots of people care about feminism, thats a good thing. :)

"One example would be the numerous of posts on 'sexist' advertisements. Rarely does the post, or discussion, really uncover the implications of such advertisements, who they appeal to, why they are appealing and why they might not be so problematic. Instead it's a lot of 'look, she's bent over! so sexist! bad for women!' followed up by a lot of posts that read 'I hate sexist advertisements too!'"

...and probably a lot of "I don't have time to read all these comments that other readers posted since last time I checked the site, I'll look kinda dumb if I post a comment without reading the prior comments, so I'll skip this one and go respond to that other post about [insert name of other topic]."

For another example, I just got back from work and errands, I think the "Grand Theft Auto: Prostitute killing is a big hit." post could be interesting, but I need to go to bed soon instead of reading 144 comments that weren't there when I left my personal computer this morning and trying to chime in intelligently. :/

I am a 40 year old white male, a contributor to the site, have bought both your books and just want to say relax. I think a lot of the controversies in the blogosphere (your book cover, Amanda's artwork, etc) are overblown and destructive. Yes we need to be aware of our mistakes, prejudices and wrong assumptions, but a lot of the vitriol is counterproductive. A circular firing squad is a bad thing. Peoples work and blogs and thoughts are not going to be perfectly PC all the time. As a liberal, I get upset when the media focuses on trivialities like Wright and Obama's flag pin. But when we get in a feeding frenzy over Sheena cartoons and sexy book covers we are doing the same thing and feeding the stereotypes that the right has of us. I am sorry any Nader or Green Party supporters, but the Democrats are not the same as the Republicans, we live in the real world and need to reach real people.
I teach High school in a suburban district and the female students opinions about feminism, equal rights and even self respect horrify me. Voices like yours and Amanda's and Feministing are needed. I forget the source of the quote, but Fuck em if they don't think your wonderful.

Jessica,

While I admire your willingness to listen to any and all criticism, I'd just like to suggest something. My first day as an undergrad, I was in a language and logic course, and the thing that changed my life the most was the list of logical fallacies that we discussed. I'd suggest checking out Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies, printing it, and keeping it somewhere that you're likely to look at it from time to time. Sometimes, knowing that unfair criticism falls into one of those fallacies just makes it not sting as bad, no matter how ad ...womenim it is. Looking at that list, too, is helpful with writer's block. (I can't tell you how much I've wanted to talk about an issue, and I haven't been able to put into words WHY I felt it needed discussion until I sat down with my list and realized that the logic behind the issue was what was wrong with it.)

I hope it helps!

Much love,
Another Jessica

Jessica,

While I admire your willingness to listen to any and all criticism, I'd just like to suggest something. My first day as an undergrad, I was in a language and logic course, and the thing that changed my life the most was the list of logical fallacies that we discussed. I'd suggest checking out Wikipedia's list of logical fallacies, printing it, and keeping it somewhere that you're likely to look at it from time to time. Sometimes, knowing that unfair criticism falls into one of those fallacies just makes it not sting as bad, no matter how ad ...womenim it is. Looking at that list, too, is helpful with writer's block. (I can't tell you how much I've wanted to talk about an issue, and I haven't been able to put into words WHY I felt it needed discussion until I sat down with my list and realized that the logic behind the issue was what was wrong with it.)

I hope it helps!

Much love,
Another Jessica

exlitigator, I don't think it's helpful that you dismiss real concerns as "overblown", "destructive" or "vitriol". I also don't give a rat's ass what stereotypes we are feeding.

And Democrats are not the same as Republicans because we actually think, examine our own belief systems, listen to other people's viewpoints, and alter our own as necessary. Calling the very real concerns of very real people "overblown", "destructive" and "vitriol" strikes me as far too similar to sticking your fingers in your ears and singing loudly because you're being told something you don't want to hear.

I feel so frustrated right now because I feel like this is the first time in a long time that I've had questions I don't even know how to ask.

Argh! I apologize for double comment posting. I just got a mac, and the PC-to-Mac conversion (i.e. no double clicking) is still a hard concept three weeks out.

i find nothing more feminist than the ability to critically examine oneself in hopes of further improvement. isn't that what we ask of society at large?
I greatly appreciate your frankness and respect you more than i already did, and want to thank you for being brave enough to make your self-criticism public.

Jessica:
I don't know. I really had a lot of belief that you put intersectionality and awarness of privlidge in your work, but over the last few weeks I've lost most of that belief.
Your non-addressal of Seal Press's outrageous behavior on black amazon's former blog is approval by silence.
Seal Press's "apology" that you reference is a backhanded farce.
This comes off like, well, this has gotten so big i better say something...so, here goes.
Why didn't you rebuke Seal Press for their racist statements about women of color?
Plus, I don't understand why when you link to others who are work you describe as more nuanced or cutting edged, then the links are to women's reproductive health sites.
Reproductive health is an important issue...but i'm confused because while i'm sure you work on many issues, it seemed like your referencing your work blogging. so it seems like way more appropriate would be some links to people who are blogging?
i dunno. your response to this whole thing rubs me wrong, and makes me wonder if it's always been this way here. I know the comments get racist and arrogant pretty quick but I figured thats because this is, in some ways, like an intro to feminism site.
but i feel like your muted reaction to these events really changes how i view you and this site. it makes me wonder what i missed before. if i just hadn't been around long enough, or if, because i really admired you, if i was blind to other dismissals of concerns of poc and sidestepping of responsibility. i think as an author out of seal press and as a (way well known, come on now, we all know feministing is big name) gold star feminist name, you have a clear responsibility to address these events.
so i don't know.
i'm pretty nonplussed about you and this site right now.

I wish Sahmita would take over the blog.

Does it make anyone else uncomfortable that Jessica's sister is one of the editors?

I'm glad you finally said outloud you realize part of the reason why the mainstream media picks up on your work is because you are cute, white and well dressed and not because you have anything edgy or new to add to feminism. I think you are right to be proud of being able to make a living off of writing, but it's good you understand why you REALLY got on to the colbert show.

We don't live in a meritocracy, we live in a sexist world where a woman's looks matter and her worth is reduced down to her sexuality and you are, so ironically, benefiting from that.

I think if you really wanted to do something powerful you'd take a stand and not ever do any mainstream media like television.

Tending towards quiet presence for much of my blogging life... which is years now, I have to comment on all this.
What are we all committed to? Is there a line that is drawn in every circle of connection about the "right" and the "wrong" of things and who lives in what camp? Can it be that being ignorant of each others' unique perspective based on where we were born, what color we are, or if one position is tougher than another, provides chasms of misunderstanding? Is there any room for honest or even dishonest mistakes?
At the risk of being ousted before I even embark on reply - can we bury the hatchet and recognize that all women suffer from inequities, and all women struggle - regardless of what race she is? I'm tired of the camps that are so defined in every aspect of humanity. We are all a part of the same fucking planet, and we have to find ways to support and understand each other. What value are we providing by cornering each other and making each other wrong. It just sounds like a whole lot of victim bullshit and there's really no space for it...
I am older... almost 50, and I saw first hand the value that early feminists brought to a conversation that wasn't happening. I witnessed the glaring inequities women struggled with - my mother couldn't even get a fucking credit card for god's sake! Are we really going to further feminism if we continue to waste our time fighting with each other?
Just because I'm white doesn't mean I haven't experienced the impact of patriarchy - elaborately. It also doesn't suggest that my experience is less problematic... So, can we stop keeping score and stand together as human women who want significant change, who can forgive and move on, who can show an example of what being a community could really become?
There's room for all of this and when someone apologizes for her lack of awareness, can we accept that as a powerful statement of intent to do better?

Oh my...I just read the Seal Press comments from blackamazon's blog. Sick sick sick. And definitely needs to be addressed!!

"I think if you really wanted to do something powerful you'd take a stand and not ever do any mainstream media like television."

Really, Miranda Jay?

So what is Jessica supposed to do, stay in hiding because she's attractive? What a feminist thing to suggest, that a woman's success came from her looks and sex appeal instead of her brains and talent. Telling women to make carreer or life choices based on our physical appearence is, um, Total Bullshit.

At the risk of being ousted before I even embark on reply - can we bury the hatchet and recognize that all women suffer from inequities, and all women struggle - regardless of what race she is?

I understand the sentiment you're expressing completely. However, it's not as simple as "burying the hatchet". Racial and class privilege do exist (I benefit substantially from the former and moderately from the latter), and feminists and feminist institutions aren't immune from either.

Let's reframe this for a second, and perhaps this will illustrate the problem with the "let's bury the hatchet" sentiment:

Let's say, instead of a feminist blog, this were a labour blog or the like, and someone brought up the way in which male privilege operates to marginalise women and women's interests within the context of the labour movement, and a man were to suggest that we "bury the hatchet".

The problem with burying the hatchet, as I see it, is that the issue has already been buried for a pretty long time. Sometimes you have to dig up the hatchet, look it over closely, and work to reach conclusions on what the hatchet is all about before you can re-bury it.

I think if you really wanted to do something powerful you'd take a stand and not ever do any mainstream media like television.

Bollocks. A few years ago I was one of the team who organised Ladyfest Dublin, and there were a few other members of the steering committee who didn't want any mainstream media coverage at all, despite the fact that several of the journalists writing about the festival in the mainstream media were, like me (I wrote about it for the Irish Times), actively involved in the festival and were highly unlikely to write about their involvement in it in a negative way. By refusing all mainstream media, you often just end up preaching to the choir rather than reaching new people. Some of my fellow committee members didn't really care about reaching some teenager in Meath who doesn't have access to tiny Dublin zines and punk gigs, but as far as I was concerned, those kids were exactly who I wanted to know about Ladyfest. There's nothing powerful about just talking to your friends. There's something powerful about bringing feminist ideas to a mainstream audience who might never encounter them otherwise.

I forget the source of the quote, but Fuck em if they don't think your wonderful.

Oh Yeah. I think it was in the "Hubris" issue of "Narcissism Monthly". I believe the actual article was titled, "You're Mommy Still Thinks Your Shit Don't Stink".

Sorry that should be "Your" not "You're"...bad edit.

And somehow it didn't get...

Jessica clearly wants honest feedback so why try and shut down those taking time to provide it?

heathersf, I’m sorry you feel that way. I haven’t addressed this until now not because “this has gotten so big,� but because I had to do a lot of self-reflection to get here. And of course it was difficult for me to rebuke Seal - they helped me get my start and they’re a huge supporter of my career. But I still think they need to be held responsible for their racism, and that’s why I pledged to hold them accountable as one of their writers. And I wouldn’t work with them if I didn’t think their apology was sincere - I’ve had many conversations with Seal in the last few days and I feel confident in their willingness to look honestly and themselves and change.

As for the links - I just wanted to provide some links to organizations I admire; it had nothing to do with my work blogging. In any case, I’m sorry if I’ve disappointed you, or other readers with this post. I’m just trying to be as honest as possible.

MirandaJay, my sister Vanessa co-founded the site with me - so this isn’t exactly nepotism. And I’d like to say, yes I’m acknowledging part of the reason I got media attention - but I’m not going to self-flagellate myself. I got on Colbert because I had a book out and my publisher worked hard to market it, not because I looked good in a skirt. And while I’m certainly not going to refuse to do any media - I do think it’s important that I (or other folks with media opportunities) pass on those opportunities to other feminists, those with more expertise, or those who don’t normally get that exposure.

"What a feminist thing to suggest, that a woman's success came from her looks and sex appeal instead of her brains and talent."

Well, I would agree, but I guess I don't think Jessica is all that talented and that was my point. The national media attention she gets is not, in my opinion, anywhere equal to the amount of talent she has. I THOUGHT she had said she felt that way, too? This is what I was really responding to: "I have no illusions as to why my work has gotten the press that it has. The media likes nothing more than a young sassy white feminist who is mainstream-friendly. I know that there is work out there being done that is more nuanced and cutting edge - because I see it all around me." You know, she DID write a book, and that is something, but that book isn't all that interesting, edgy or important, in fact I don't think I got anything out of it at all. It really is "a primer" but I thought bell hook's "feminism is for everybody" is an even better primer, that's what got me into feminism. Isn't bell hooks just an all around better read than Jessica Valenti? Why aren't we giving young girls THAT book? Does Jessica introduce any new ideas or theories in FFF?

No, obviously you looking good in a skirt isn't the only reason why you were on the colbert show (when he made that crack about Susan B Anthony and your book cover, I died laughing) you did write a book. But I don't know, I kinda thought that with this statement you were saying you were aware that the book got so much attention in part because you are easy to market, which includes white and cute.

It's not about punishment. It's about actively refusing to take advantage of your white privilege. And as a WOC, I would be really moved by a white woman refusing the privileges she's granted. I guess that's not happening, though.

MJ, like I said - I absolutely acknowledge that a lot of the press has been because I fit into a mainstream-friendly standard. But I don't think that in recognizing that, I have to say that I don't value the work I do or think that it's not important. I know it is.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but the response I've gotten from young women across the board about FFF has been overwhelmingly positive - and I believe I can be simultaneously proud of that while being cognizant of the different ways my privilege works.

I also think it's really problematic to say that I'm not refusing my white privilege if I think my work is important and deserving of attention.

MJ, I have to agree with stellanova. Without mainstream media coverage or attention, any modern social movement is just preaching to the choir. It's utterly unproductive to actively refuse opportunities to share ideas with people who may not be familiar with feminism.

Don't you realize you are suggesting that a woman's level of "cuteness" dictate her political and professional work? I find this unacceptable in any context.

You know what I think is problematic? White privilege.

I'm just going to go ahead and tell you how I feel when I log onto feministing, on a emotional level, so you know where I am coming from. I see all these flickr pictures you have of yourself and your friends, and you are drinking cocktails in fashionable clothing and I read your writing, and I wonder why it is you get so much attention when you don't really say anything new or groundbreaking. And I read other bloggers who aren't you, who aren't cute and white and the only conclusion I can come to is: classism and racism. I don't really think you are either of these things, but your success feels to come from those systems and it fucking frustrates me. I hate that you are the face and voice of third wave feminism, the most visible and successful as far as I can tell. It feels unfair and I resent you for it. I hate that you defended Amanda Marcotte, I hate that you are sitting here saying you want to do better and recognize but you still think that your massive success is totally deserved because of your merits. I hate that you are saying you think seal press fucked up but you won't talk too much shit about them because you know they gave you a book deal and you can't shit on them otherwise you'll be ungrateful.

I hate that you get to benefit from the system and then say "oh yeah, I know, it's so horrible and unfair isn't it, I totally see it all that white privilege I get afforded" but you still benefit from it! You wont stop benefiting from it, ever. You don't even want to stop, you equate not benefiting from it as "self flagellation".

I NEVER hated feminism, I NEVER questioned the label feminism until I started reading this blog. Even until a few weeks ago I defended the label "feminist" On that post about if the label feminist is important, I said it was, I agreed that it was. I am serious. I never even really saw the whole feminism is just for white women thing. Not in any article or book I ever read. It's only been after reading this fucking website and all the comments that follow any post that involves race that I have wondered if all the criticisms of feminism were valid after all. I thought it was interesting that someone said you ruined feminism, I didn't really think anything of it, but as I am writing this, I definitely feel like feministing.com has ruined feminism for me. I'm 26 and have been involved in feminism since a teenager and you know this is really hard but I think that I am done with the feminist movement as it exists.

I know that this post is emotional and personal and you probably feel attacked but as I am writing it I am realizing that this isn't for me, that feminism isn't and maybe never was for people like me and that I was a moron for not seeing it.

I haven't read all of the comments but I've read enough. And I have certainly read enough comments on other posts.

Why is it that when race is brought up in a feminist context the same horribly alienating and destructive dialogue is said? Throughout the comments I have read there seems to be a trend here of saying things like this has nothing to do with feminism or well they may have done/said something racist but I know they are good person that didn't mean it and they don't have a racist thought in them or that it was something they missed, etc. It seems like if the post is about something misogynistic that a man has done and a commentor tries to defend/excuse away the offense, their comment is ripped apart for trying to use the "Good Guy" defense or a straw man argument. Or even if it has been shown over and over that people have tried to show why something is racist, the fact that they are repeatedly dismissed by the offender is ignored.

I use to think the internet was kind of weird...like how can people build communities or find connections through it? But after recently moving across country (to city where I do not know anyone) and working from home, the internet became that for me. This was the first blog I read that was passed on from a friend and I found solace, safety and community from it. Shoot I even commented a few times. And it was the other commentors that made that a reality for me.

But now, after the continued repeat of comments like these (and tons of other examples) I don't feel safe or wanted or understood. I feel isolated, upset and angry. But most of all sad, because I just don't think I have it in me anymore to deal. I have tried just to read posts, but that comment link is forever calling, so I think I need to hang up for now.

Sorry for the long (therapy) post.

MirandaJay, at the risk of saying something that might make you feel worse (totally not my intention but sometimes I stick my foot in my mouth) I just wanted to say that Jessica Valenti or even feministing.com or even the feminist blogosphere as a whole does not represent the entirety of feminism. Not even close. I understand the problems with racism here perhaps better than ever after reading your post, but I know that not everyone feels the same way about what's going on around here lately. Not everyone is OK with a limited vision of feminism. I'm not and I'm a white feminist. A white feminist who thought, up until a few days ago, that most people were on the same page with me. I'm done with seeing feminism through the foggy lens I had before and at the same time I'm more convinced than ever that I am and will always be a feminist. If someone wants to come in and try to appropriate a word of equality and turn it into some kind of narrow, classist, racist, bullet-point activism, that's their choice but it's not mine. And though I may not have such extensive company on this side of the fence as I thought, I know I'm not alone.

So of course I wrote a long comment and it disappeared.

MJ, I get it. You don't like me - or what I've come to represent to you, more accurately. That's fine. Though I do think that commenting on my "drinking cocktails in fashionable clothing" is kind of unfair. (And not that I have to defend my social life, but I don't exactly put up pics of me chilling in PJs working online 24/7. A few pics of me out is not what my life is. On the contrary.)

As far as you feeling my work isn't new or groundbreaking: I think that it's not so much what I'm saying, but how I'm saying it that's resonating with people. My project is making feminism more accessible to younger women, and I am proud of the work I've done there.

I am allowed to have complicated feelings about my success. I am allowed to be proud of the work I've done while still recognizing the ways I benefit from white privilege (or lookism, class, etc).

And you're allowed to hate all the stuff you mention - I don't think it's unfair of you to feel all of those things. I do think it's unfair, however, for you to suggest that unless I essentially disappear from public view, that I'm a bad feminist, or person, or whatever.

That said, it pains me that you feel feministing ruined feminism for you. Truly. I don't know how to respond to that, really, but of course I wish it wasn't the case.

Btw, if you'd like to hash stuff out in private (or stay here, either is cool with me!), feel free to email me: jessica@feministing.com

*hugs feministing*

I have a couple of things to say here.
First, I am very happy to see your self-reflection, Jessica. I don't read it as a request for absolution or declaration of automatically being a perfect writer/feminists. But I appreciate and admire the pledge to keep working on the issues that have been raised.
In addition, I am really glad that PoC have been commenting and giving their dissenting opinions, in this and all threads. As a White woman with all the attending privileges, I want to hear about it and I'm grateful to everyone who is willing to put themselves out there on issues about which they are probably very burnt out. I consider it an important addition to the work I'm doing on my own to learn more about race & ethnicity and how to use my own privilege (which I can't give back, no matter how much I may want to) to make society better for everyone. Again, thank you.
I also want to say that I can understand the frustration with it, but I don't think it's fair to tell people to stop offering Jessica support for the same reason I don't think it's fair to tell people to stop critiquing her. Some of the more personal or emotional support might be more appropriate via personal email than on a public thread, but it's still valid. Acknowledgement of Jessica as a human being who might be hurt by this is a good thing- as long as we are being equally empathetic to others who have been hurt by the issue in other ways.
Finally, I want speak to the issue of repetitive posts about things like sexist media. Yes, sometimes comments threads read like strings of "oh my god, me too" statements. But when I read these, I assume that this means that blogging is fulfilling an important need- showing people new to feminism that they aren't alone. Some of us may have classrooms and groups of friends and families in which we can say the basic stuff like this- others of us do not. For these people, the simple realization that they are not the only one who thinks an advertisement is horribly sexist is a powerful moment. It can lead to a lifetime of critical thinking that might otherwise have been drummed out of existence. I don't see the usefulness in telling people that their "aha!" moments are trivial. If you're at another point in your personal feminism, fine. Contribute at your own comfort level. Allow others to do the same.
I think that's about all for now.

I wish feministing hadn't ruined feminism for me either.

It's not so much the blog that did it as it was interacting with the community here. My involvement had really only been through reading, and seeing how the majority of feminists behave has made me decide that I, like, 007Femme feel unwanted and not understood.

Feminism really isn't for the impoverished or the colored and the community that is feministing.com, not just the bloggers here, have taught me that.

Over the year or so that I have been regularly reading here, I have seen person of color after person of color make this declaration and I thought they were being melodramatic at the time, but now I realize they had just reached the point where they couldn't handle it anymore and neither can I.

I think it's nice of you to have responded but I don't feel that I have anything left to say, especially if you are going to tell me what's fair and unfair.

Thanks, Ayala and 007femme! It feels better knowing I'm not the only one who feels this way.

MJ, I'm not telling you anything except my opinion. Again, I am truly sorry if feministing - as a blog, a community, whatever - has hurt you.

MJ (or anyone else that wants/needs to continue these dialogues more in-depth off-line) I created a "fake" email. You can email me there if you want so that I have your email addy privately and then I can share w/you my actual one. They don't call me 007 for no reason! j/k

wordword007@gmail.com

Not every voice that is a feminist one will encompass everything that is feminism. I mean to say that if I am a woman of colour, I can make an effort to be as inclusive of possible, but really, I can only offer my experienced perspective, which is that of a woman of colour. Just like if I am a white feminist, I can try my hardest to be as inclusive as possible, but ultimately, can only speak from my experience. Which is why it is SO important for women of colour, queer women, etc. (any perspective that is not mainstream) to offer their voice to that body and viscus of matter that is feminism. Dropping out doesn't do anything. It only gives more power to the mainstream voice. There is nothing productive that can come out personally assaulting that which might frustrate us. As a woman of colour, MirandaJay, continue to tell it like it is!

For me, one of the saddest things to witness is progressive, left-wing movements becoming immobile due to self deprecation. While it is important to continually have these discussions, it is just as important to see boundaries between the personal and the political. There is no reason to get mean. Understanding takes time and effort! 007femme, what a great idea -- if you feel your voices are being overcrowded, move over and keep talking. Don't turn misunderstanding between common goals into personal barriers that immobilize you. It's so sad.

I really hope that the women of color who have spoken up in this thread like Miranda Jay don't leave! I hope you stick around and keep critiquing this blog and forcing/helping it to grow in as many ways as possible. Your voices are so valuable, and I wanted to post to let you know that I, for one, would miss these dissenting opinions if you left.

One of the things that this thread has got me thinking about is my own privilege, how to recognize it and not let it stop me from thinking about things that are hard for me to think about. I wrote a little essay on it that I'm posting on Daily Kos tonight (I hope that's alright - I'd post it here if I could), in the hopes that my thoughts will convince some other people with privilege to pay more attention when those who aren't privileged speak out, and I hope that some of you can join us, even if just to critique what I am saying.

So, apparently the "I'll try not to react, but to listen" thing lasted about a day or so?
I want to second what Miranda Jay said about white/class privilege, and how she feels when she logs onto feministing. I've thought many of the same things before but never knew how to say it (although, I personally wouldn't go so far as to say feministing ruined feminism for me).
Its really quite annoying that MJ brings up a good point - - like your refusal to say anything too harsh about Seal Press b/c 'they support your career' - - and all of the sudden her concerns are boiled down to "oh, I get it, you don't like me"
Uh... no. I'm not going to rehash what MJ was saying but it was a little more nuanced than you're giving her credit for.
I just HAD to point out that you're doing exactly what this blog post said you wouldn't - - instead of really reflecting on what she's saying about your privilege you have already jumped to "don't judge me, I swear I'm not THAT privileged, you must just not like me"
Already, some of her concerns are "fair" and some are "unfair" - isn't that a little silencing and condescending?

H. Beth - I am listening. But I'm entitled to my opinion, to disagree, and to point out when some criticisms aren't about my work - but personal.

I absolutely understand the concern over my relationship with Seal Press - and as I wrote in the post, there is no doubt that they fucked up, that they allowed racist images to go to print and that they have a lot of work to do. But I do believe in them - not just because of their support, but because of conversations I've had with them to make sure that they were serious about the promises of action they made.

And agreed, MJ has valid concerns - many of which I believe I addressed in the post and follow up comments. (But of course I'm happy to elaborate more here, if you want specify what you'd like to hear more about...)

But you can't possibly think that I'm going to sit back and agree that I've contributed nothing to feminism or that I should just go away? I believe that I can listen to, acknowledge, and learn from criticism, while also participating in the conversation and giving some push-back.

But perhaps you're right - maybe I should just let this thread go and not insert myself until I've had some time to think about it all and absorb it.

Jessica,

Here's something I want to toss out to you regarding MirandaJay's posts. These are some things I want to bounce off of MirandaJay's posts, because I agree with a lot of her sentiment, but want to say more about WHY those sentiments matter and where they come from (for me at least, I don't pretend to speak for MJ in any way)

I LOVE that someone is marketing feminism in a way that appeals to the mainstream, so we can make feminism less taboo and get more of my peers interested. But what makes this hard to get excited about (and actually makes me as angry as MirandaJay sometimes) is that the fact that you are white and (as far as I can tell) straight and cute and fun and in possession of some expendable income and the spare time to think up cute and witty things to write and say is exactly what makes you able to do mainstream-friendly feminism. Does that make sense? I know part of it is about giving good, digestable examples of oppression (so much of this has to rely on consumer and representational examples), writing in a relatable way, being engaging but entertaining, balancing just enough anger with just enough flirtation, all these things in your writing and personality. I know these are components of what makes FFF and feministing so hip and happening and well, easily digested. But all those qualities are, for the most part, and not coincidentally, wrapped up in the bodies of privileged people. It isn't a coincidence that you have repackaged feminism and you just happen to be insanely privileged. Your privilege is what has allowed you to do anything that looks like a repackaging. I don't just mean your privilege has gotten you media appearances. I mean the new thing you brought, the thing that makes you proud of your work, is inseparable from the privilege you bring to the table.

The thing is, I can't blame you for these things. But seeing your success reminds me how uphill this battle is. We can't talk about sexism, homophobia, racism, if we show it for the real ugly, reality that it is, and not if the people talking about it aren't privileged enough not to threaten the mainstream? And you know what, call it jealousy, call it a "personal vendetta" or however you want to dismiss it. But feminism has taught us the personal IS political. jealousy is a condition created by material inequality coupled with consumer culture. I AM jealous of you. But because this has something to do with a very human emotion does not mean this isn't a political problem or something related to feminist theorizing and activism.

I'm jealous and angry, when I see your success with this new, online era of feminism stuff, but it isn't YOU I'm mad at. It's that seeing all your success reminds me just how messed up the mainstream is, and therefore, how many walls we're inevitably hitting, that even repackaging feminism isn't a true victory. That it has to be repackaged and that it can only be repackaged by a Jessica Valenti are horrible truths. It reminds me that while you're recruiting great young feminists and getting good publicity for our movement, this does nothing to change the ROOTS of the problem, which is that this stuff has to be repackaged in a cute, white, straight body in the first place. It's like...I don't want you to just disappear and not do your work, because it does need to be done. And at the same time, watching you do your work hurts a lot, because I know it could never be me or any other woman with less privilege than you do the "mainstreaming." So I'm not looking for you to apologize for being as privileged as you are or to "self-flagellate" or to disappear. For one thing, what good would it do? The house always wins. You stop your work, the house wins. You do your work, the house wins. (and by house I mean racist, classist, sexist, ageist, homophobic, ableist systems of power). But I do want to make sure you understand why your work is a major source of ambivalence, jealousy, and discouragement sometimes. I can't recommend a course of action to you regarding any of this. But I think the fact that so many commenters and bloggers in the mainstream white blogosphere expect us to set out some path for you to follow that will make this all better or even start to make it better, is part of the thinking of a highly privileged person. It's expecting that certain truths can't possibly exist if they don't also provide a good solution that will excuse you from any negative views or any wrongdoing. I'm sorry to say that as an underprivileged person I've learned repeatedly in life that that just isn't how the world works. When you aren't part of the house you start realizing you can't expect to win...(by the way, I'm not accusing you specifically of trying to get such a fix-it list out of your detractors, it's more like a pre-emptive thing for other commenters who might go there)

...I really apologize for the length of this post and I regret posting it in advance, because I'm not particularly articulate or good at conveying complex thoughts...ugh...

And FYI, I don't think you should just sit back and absorb, by the way. I know these conversations are painful. But they're productive. And I'm not here to attack you. I'm here to have a conversation...and part of being able to have a conversation requires that I own up to the anger your career incites in me sometimes. And please believe me when I say I don't like that fact any more than you do.

Feministing: The Fox News of feminism

Seriously, Commodore08 and MirandaJay have had some very interesting comments here. But I think it's a mistake to be too pessimistic about how "packaged" or toned down it takes to succeed. The fact that more people are waking up to the notion that it's better to have a President who speaks eloquently to us than one who talks down to us is a good starting point. People will be people, but there is progress.

Commodoreo8, thanks for that totally lucid (please don't apologize while being ridiculously articulate) explanation of the dynamics at play here. As I was reading the rest of the thread and trying to figure out a way to participate constructively, I kept thinking about the duality of realism vs. idealism. On the one hand, as so many of you are pointing out, we live in a fucked up world. It is still racist, sexist, classist etc. etc. This discrimination is rooted in hearts and minds and institutions alike. So all of us, as much as we need to focus on pulling that out at the root and dismantling fucked up systems, have to meanwhile, live and work in them. So how do you do the most good?
I think Jessica (and any feminist who has privilege and some mainstream recognition) is forced to articulate a very complex answer to that question on a daily basis. For example, when I was meeting with publishing houses to try to sell my book, I knew they were making sure I was "TV ready" (i.e. not fat). That bothers me to this day, but I also saw it as an opportunity to get in, get a deal, and then use that privilege (along with my privilege of not being fat in a society that hates fatness) to rail against lookism.
I think there are parallels in Jessica's work, though she speaks just fine for herself on this.
My hope for this conversation, and just about every one I have about intersectional feminism, is that we build understanding and not tear one another down or silence one another. In this thread I've seen really destructive assumptions being made--about who Jess is, about who feministing reaches (not everyone feels comfortable commenting, especially in these kinds of threads), about what all WOC experience (I'm white, but I would hate if anyone tried to speak for my experience just because they were also white) etc.
I'm not going to devolve, as Commodoreo8 said, into: Okay how do we solve it? I know that's spuriously simple. BUT, I am going to ask: How can we humanize one another, acknowledge complexity, and foster understanding? That's where social change always starts, in my opinion.

Commodore08, thanks for the comments. There's a lot of food for thought there, and believe me - this is all stuff I've thought about too.

What funny is that what it feels like to me is that this public narrative of who I am and what my feminism is has been not entirely decided by me - it's been decided for me. Sure, I speak in an informal way and that's deliberate, and I'm just kind of being who I am....but as I said to a friend last night in an email - if you would have told me a couple of years ago that I would be described as the cute white straight mainstream feminist with an "expendable income" I would laughed in your fucking face. (And just a note, not to downplay all the various privileges I have, but I talk a lot about my class background - and present, frankly - in FFF. That may give you a better idea of where I'm coming from.)

What's especially interesting to me is that all of the things that you, MJ, and I'm sure others, are seeing, were the very same things that annoyed me about the young women I saw representing feminism in the media. So I know how you're feeling - it's just feels very odd to be on the other side. Because it feels like you're talking about someone else. When people describe how they see me - or what the public perception of me is - I don't know that person, she seems foreign to me. Because that's not my life.

And I appreciate this: "But seeing your success reminds me how uphill this battle is." I haven't thought about that a lot, and I should.

Courtney,

That bothers me to this day, but I also saw it as an opportunity to get in, get a deal, and then use that privilege (along with my privilege of not being fat in a society that hates fatness) to rail against lookism.

At the risk of greatly oversimplifying your very introspective response, I have to go back here to that completely overused but under-explained concept of the master's house and the master's tools. When Audre Lorde wrote, she wasn't thinking specifically about mass media culture as one of these tools, so I'm going to take a little of my own liberty with her concept and flesh out why it applies here.

If you think of this culture of mass media (one which wants to print a pic of the hip young feminist Jessica in a bar with a cocktail, one which wants to make sure you aren't fat before you talk about body image, one which, I'm absolutely certain, would never put women with less privilege in the positions you and Jessica find yourselves in now, one which thrives on the cute white straight girl, and makes invisible the not cute, not white, not straight, maybe barely recognizable as a girl) as a tool which the master uses to build the house (oh look, my ridiculous metaphors from both posts are working well together here), you maybe start to question whether yours and Jessica's approaches are indeed the best answer to that question. When you try to use these tools to reach bigger audiences, what you're doing at the same time is legitimizing the master's tool, you're lending them credibility, and suggesting these tools maybe aren't the ultimately exclusive mechanisms your very exclusive existence as mainstream-friendly feminists proves they are. So, reinforcing the credibility of the master's tools is the first thing that happens when you try to do something like unravel lookism by benefiting from it.

The other, more pernicious part of this equation is what happens on the consumption side of mass media. The God's honest truth is that in spite of the young women and men Jessica's book has helped convince feminism is cool and necessary, and probably the men and women of all ages you have touched and changed the thinking of with your writing, most people are only equipped to consume your media and take away from it the notion that cute white straight feminists girls are cooler than ever, they aren't only cute and non-threatening on the whole, but they say bad-ass things AND they are able to do all this while being totally open-minded and considerate of people with less privilege too. Mass media produces and reproduces consumers who don't have the equipment to truly engage with what they hear or take away anything more profound than that. That whole process of hearing you talk about your books or even reading your books, is wrapped up in the larger experience of being a mass-media consumer. It isn't a forum which encourages engagement past the moment of consumption, and consumption is consuming personality and vibe, more than it is about consuming ideas. As long as this movement is going to have spokespeople, (and it will as long as we deem it necessary to try to rename the mainstream from within it), a few people are going to become (not through any desire of their own or failures as feminists, as Jessica points out) some of the master's tools.

I mean, you can't possibly think the women who have taken different approaches to creating change, outside mass media, have opted for grassroots, local, more direct and raw and unpolished messaging, that they have only refused to play the mainstream game because they don't have the privilege to get an "in." Surely you can imagine that less privileged people are aware that the master's tools sting and burn when they come down on you and know not to even touch them. If you were able to gain access to those tools it means that whether you want to or not, while you use them to take out a few nails on the long road to dismantling the house, you are complicit in reinforcing the larger superstructure of that house and making it look even less dangerous than it really is. I mean...that's why the master chose the tools he chose. Because they work so well... I say this realizing there isn't a literal racist, ableist, homophobic patriarch hanging out in D.C., plotting to make sure conditions stay adequate for his enthusiastic son to take similar power some day (though the Bushes make that less seem less crazy every day), but isn't it reasonable to assume an apparatus created by and and still controlled by the privileged is more likely than not designed in a way that makes its very use reproduce its relevance?

This isn't to say your mainstream work as it is now has no value. I'm sure you could list to me some very valid examples of how it does good, and I probably could too if I cared enough to sit here and think about it for a minute. I'm sure reading this post makes you think I am indeed arguing for you and your work to disappear. I'll reiterate I'm not. That house gets bigger and nastier whether you're using its tools or not. And it's not like we've developed a fast-working, wide-reaching tool elsewhere that doesn't create the same problem. I won't hesitate to say, though, that I think the stuff you're doing where you're actually talking to young women, (you mentioned being a mentor, Jessica mentions working with young women writers a lot) I know that doesn't pay the bills and it is so small, but I think it's probably the most valuable work you do as a progressive...you're getting through to a person, and you're doing it without showing millions of people how cool the master's tools are. [this concludes my very tired reliance on such a corny and maybe not ultimately resonant metaphor]

You girls are lucky I am sick and weak enough to be deemed a potential workplace safety liability today, because I think I only scratched the surface of things you address here and plan on writing again soon after I get a little rest (or wait, does that make you unlucky?) :)

Brave, if somewhat vague.

Funny,
All of the leaders that I hope were this publicly self-critical are silent.

And the ones that I'd like to see righteous are thoughtful enough to second-guess themselves.

Ok so, with the haze of medication finally wearing off and the benefit of some actually restful sleep, I just want to post on one more of the main ideas from Courtney's and Jessica's last posts. I realize I've written two monster posts, both of which seem to suggest there's something wrong with your careers (at least as I conceive of them), and I'm second guessing whether that does any real good for you or if it's driven more by my own need to get out some frustrations...Anyway, which brings me to my last points.

I wanted to suggest a few possible responses to Courtney's last question:

How can we humanize one another, acknowledge complexity, and foster understanding? That's where social change always starts, in my opinion.

At first I thought, (being the impetuous type), ugh, is she really asking ME to tell her how to make HER life easier? What investment do I have in that?

And then I read Jessica's thoughts,

What funny is that what it feels like to me is that this public narrative of who I am and what my feminism is has been not entirely decided by me - it's been decided for me.

And I thought, really?! Your identity and its significance are being defined by other people?! You don't have control as an individual over what people think and assume when they see and read you?! Welcome to my world! But then I woke up, less drugged and better rested and more at peace and realized this was actually a good thing, because in fact, that I can relate exactly to what you're saying means there's hope for us to continue having a conversation here. Maybe, I thought, Courtney is talking about humanizing on both sides. How DO we do that?

Well, first of all, from personal experience, I have to say it takes interpersonal interaction generally, the more intimate, the better, to help people understand that just like them, you are complex and feeling and flawed and human and real too. But having watched you all here, I think a possible alternative is creating a site of interaction which closely resembles actual direct, personal interaction. And that's really what I think the blogosphere can be used to do. This post is a good start to doing that work, Courtney. But that you all substantively follow up to posts in comments sections rarely, compared to what people at smaller blogs can do, for example, is one of those barriers to actually utilizing the online community building potential fully.

Maybe going back to my points about the master's house, I do have to say I think the wider the scale you want to reproduce this intimacy on, however, the less effective it gets. Because people know real intimacy when they see it, and it's hard for them to feel you're just like a girlfriend they're going to have lunch with if they know you're simultaneously talking to and trying to address the concerns of thousands of other people, to sort of capture real, intimate appreciation with one enormous net.

There are probably other approaches to making people see you as human...I mean, I can see people who are more familiar with those arguments posting about celebrity culture and how it causes this and how it can be subverted. This is just what comes to mind in the context of the rest of our conversation.

So I guess the good news is I think you're already doing some of what it takes and you're more successful at it than others have been in the past. I mean, I doubt I would've posted what I've posted in this thread (which I hope you think treats you as a real human), if I didn't at some point realize you are indeed real people who quite often read what your commenters write and consider them. Otherwise, writing all these things really would've been a selfish waste of time.

And I guess this brings me to my last point, regarding how Jessica describes this as a sort of out of body experience because she used to be on the other side:

What's especially interesting to me is that all of the things that you, MJ, and I'm sure others, are seeing, were the very same things that annoyed me about the young women I saw representing feminism in the media.

Jessica, I know after some of the harsh things I've said about how I view you and your career, it may be hard to believe this, but I do know you are different from those feminists you used to resent yourself. I do not think you have become them. None of those feminists were willing to have these conversations where they submit that they may be wrong and they may be causing problems. There was never the self awareness you have, or even the desire to be more self aware. You and Courtney and the other bloggers here have made a big step. Finally, someone whose career I hate has actually created a forum and an occasion for me to tell her I hate it. And what does she do? Shut down? Disappear? No. She listens. She has a conversation with me, indicating my opinion actually matters at least on some level. Don't discount what an important step this is, because I can assure you, I don't. I don't think you're the type of person who would get to the compliment and start to believe that makes none of the criticism offered above important to keep in mind. So this is me signing off on a kind (and possibly drug induced--new dose is kicking in) note: You're my favorite high-profile, white, straight, feminist ever. If even I can give you credit when it's due, you should make sure you can give it to yourself too...

Hi Commodore08, do you have your own blog?

No blog, Qi. I think I'm years away from having the time to write more often than on rare days like this... :)

Testing.

Previous post stuck in moderation for some reason...

commodore, that was a pretty thoughtful analysis, i appreciated it a lot.
it caused me to self reflect on more areas that my privlidge as white extends to...being my mental fantasies. I'd never thought about how, in my wildest dreams, it is taken for granted that I could be where the women I read/watch/hate/admire/whatever are.
As a young white straight female, when I imagine writing a book, there is not a cap on where it can go.
I often imagine other things for myself besides fame or tv shows, pretty radically other things, but all the same, the option has never seemed completely out of the realm of possibility.
despite my many personal failings.

jessica, i also value that you responded to my comment and participated in dialogue here.

I think one of the most ironic things about "isms" is that they do tend to dehumanize. Why? Because they paint with a broad brush, as if all of group x must think in manner y. It is one of the things which turns me off of activism in general. However, how to be more educated and aware, without taking note of broad trends in culture? It's a conundrum. I think it's important not to get so lost in the "isms" that you stop approaching one human being at a time, as a unique individual. We learn individually first, and collectively, over time. This site is one of my absolute favorites, and you can knock it for being "consumer friendly," just remember all consumers are people. People aren't quite all the singularly thinking sheep that it can be handy to portray them as being. I see racial issues being raised quite a lot lately, I'm sure bc of the Dem primaries. Overall this has to be a good thing, however the conversation between the races, culturally speaking, is really just beginning. It's not time to throw in the towel with exasperation. There seems to be a discussion that would be useful about when it's useful to get more personal, and when it's useful to step away from the personal. There are benefits to both approaches. However, it isn't good to get so personal that you give up and walk away to a crowd which seems more suited to you. Joining with those with whom you are uncomfortable is the only way forward.

It would be nice to hear, that instead of spending all your time beating up on feminist organizations that try really hard, every day, to make change, that you realized it isn't so easy to make change, including changing yourself. Why not join feminist organizations instead of criticizing them? Make change from within them rather than making a career of criticizing them.

You even blame feminist organizations for your recent behavior -- since they were so bad, you had to spend your time criticizing them instead of looking at your own behavior:
But I think that I’ve been focusing so hard on changing mainstream feminist institutions, organizations that I saw as the ones with power, I ignored how a blog (or a book, or a person) could have that same power and do the same harm that I was working so hard to stop.
I hope some of your self-reflection will include whether beating up these organizations really helps women make progress -- or not.