I'm confused, what do they mean by "which is a length that Christy Turlington would struggle to carry off"? I wear skirts considerably higher than two inches above the knee often and there's nothing difficult about it. What struggle are they refering to?

Bah. What a lovely reminder that no matter how well I do in my chosen career, I will always be judged first by my appearance.

This is horrible. So, what they are saying is: to be a female commedian, you have to be conscious of your body at all times and utilize it in your humor.

Um, they never talk like this about male commedians!!!

And I love how that assume it's because she's too stupid to realize that she's being shot in full frame. DOES IT OCCUR TO ANYONE THAT MAYBE SHE DIDN'T SELECT HER OUTFIT IN THE MOVIE, BUT A WARDROBE PERSON DID?

This is so silly and degrading it makes me want to scream.

I think it fits really well with the recent Vanity Fair cover article that was mostly obsessed with how 'almost beautiful' so many of today's female comedians (including Fey) are. It doesn't matter if your work is not at all about your body. If you're female, some people will always make your body and their ability to pass judgment on it the primary subject.

I saw the movie this weekend. I thought it was a funny movie that raised class issues, and I appreciated it. I expected a comedy that did not offend me to the degree that other ones, like those by Aston "asshat" Kutcher or Will Ferrell, do. I was excited that there was a comedy like that to go see and that I reentered the theater for something other than a Harry Potter movie. I agree about the title problem, and with that hesitation, I gave the movie the benefit of the doubt, probably because it was Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. I am glad I did. I think it is a step in the right direction, though it was not perfect, it did have lines that spoke to the socially conscious and it had a couple I think it could have done without.

I think the quote is a little out of context. The reviewer refers to the wardrobe as being a good thing -- her character is supposed to be unsexy. He's pointing out that she could have used her body more to have enhanced the effect of her comedic character by not being so graceful, hence the Lucille Ball suggestion.

I thought the article was a little sexist in that it kept lauding the male director/writing and Steve Martin for their sheer amazingness while merely describing Poehler and Fey without any mention of how funny they are.

This is so aggravating. They just love to try to reduce smart, powerful women with trivial, illogical musings. Transparent.

I saw the movie this weekend. I thought it was a funny movie that raised class issues, and I appreciated it. I expected a comedy that did not offend me to the degree that other ones, like those by Aston "asshat" Kutcher or Will Ferrell, do. I was excited that there was a comedy like that to go see and that I reentered the theater for something other than a Harry Potter movie. I agree about the title problem, and with that hesitation, I gave the movie the benefit of the doubt, probably because it was Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. I am glad I did. I think it is a step in the right direction, though it was not perfect, it did have lines that spoke to the socially conscious and it had a couple I think it could have done without.

What a lovely reminder that no matter how well I do in my chosen career, I will always be judged first by my appearance.

No crap, that's exactly what this is.

Poor guy, how could he be expected to watch an entire film without a woman being overly self-conscious and posing her body to be pleasing to him. Whatever.

I thought both women looked great in the movie... So what are they complaining about, again?

Ugh, the Steve Martin character was NOT FUNNY. He annoyed the shit out of me. Fey's REACTIONS were funny. She plays a great straight woman.
And she wasn't supposed to be sexy? Could have fooled me.
I guess in order to be sexy, a woman must:

- not have a successful career in business

- not wear glasses

- wear shorter skirts

- be stupid

I am an actor, and being judged by our appearance, and how well we move is part of the job. Of course it is worse for women. You only hear about male comedian's physicality when they are notably skilled, like Chris Farley. Although I admit this is offensive, I have a hard time being outraged that Tina Fey is being judged on something, that in this case, is part of the job.

I saw the movie this weekend too, and I thought it soft-balled it's subject, had no edge, and was pretty maudlin overall.

There's this device in most crappy comedies that I like to call the mopey montage. The mopey montage comes right after the characters have had the fight that seems to break them up. It consists of a sad song and the characters wandering around looking bereft. It immediately precedes the characters working out their differences and getting back together.

Every crappy comedy has a mopey montage. This one had two. How can a film recover from that much maudlin sentiment?

Answer: It can't.

Oddly enough though, I managed to get through the whole film without once thinking about Tina Fey's hemline.

I am an actor, and being judged by our appearance, and how well we move is part of the job. Of course it is worse for women. You only hear about male comedian's physicality when they are notably skilled, like Chris Farley. Although I admit this is offensive, I have a hard time being outraged that Tina Fey is being judged on something, that in this case, is part of the job.

Jessica, to answer your question, yes.

That's all I can come up with right now.

cf. Jake and the Fatman.

heller -

I'm an actor, too. It is true that being judged on appearance is part of the job - but it shouldn't be. Actors, male and female, should be judged on talent, and I think we need to stand up and argue when we're reduced to our physical appearance.

Amanda

Disgusting and completely irrelevant.

I confess I am less offended by the commentary than most other people seem to be. To me (a casual actress, I should note), it seems that the criticism is more of Tina Fey's use of her body than of her body itself. Using your body properly is a/the critical part of being an actor of either gender, no matter what shape that body may be. I did not see the movie, so I don't know how much physical humor it contains or if that's what the article was referring to, but it sounds like a legitimate acting criticism to me.

The part about the skirt was dumb though.

In general, actors are placed in category types based on previous films. However, sometimes people want to not be a type, and trying to make them one minimizes what they have accomplished.

I have to agree with the actors who have commented already, Fey is being critiqued about how she's using her body which ( as many people already said) is an integral part of acting especially in comedy. The skirt bit wasn't needed, that's true. But I don't know if we should be jumping the gun and saying the piece is completely sexist if this remark could be a legitimate acting critique.

How was Fey supposed to move? No really. Tell me.
She was the straight woman to Poehler's crazy lady. In what way did her role call for more physical humor?
The scene in the bar, where Fey's character was dancing, was hilarious. She knows how to use her damned body. But this movie wasn't slapstick comedy so calling for it in this way is inappropriate.

When are the hemline police going to finally go fuck themselves? Tina Fey is my hero. And she's hot, but that's irrelevant. There are plenty of hot people who aren't my hero. She's also brilliant, and, er, what's the gender-neutral term for "ballsy"? Whatever it is, she's 17 kinds of it, too.

Tangential: There was a line on a recent ep of 30 Rock where Tina's character was admonished for dressing "like a small town lesbian". My simultaneous knee-jerks were, "Hey, that's how I dress!" and "Hey, I'm a small town lesbian!" A moment later: "Oh. All right, 30 Rock, you win this one."

I don't get the part about the skirt either. 2 inches above the knee is... short? Long?

That said, I kinda agree with the rest that the criticism wasn't so much directed at her body's shape, but more the uses to which it was (or wasn't) put in the film. That's probably fair game, and you do hear similar things about male actors.

Agreed, SarahMC. How WAS she supposed to use her body in the film? She carried herself with confidence when she was in a comfort zone (ie job-related scenes) and was "awkward" during situations that took her out of her comfort zone (ie the club scene SarahMC mentions above).

In fact, one of my favorite moments in the film was when Steve Martin asks her to sit on the table in her skirt. Physical comedy executed perfectly, IMO.

And just for the record, I think Fey is SUPER sexy, always!

Urrgh. Do we EVER hear a critique of Steve Martin's or Tom Arnold's physique?

Fucking shit, it all gets reduced to physical appearances when you're a woman.

I agree that the skirt issue is not relevant and that is flirting with sexism - however, I understand what the reviewer was saying. All actors need to use their body as their instrument - from Charlie Chaplin to Lucille Ball, just to name a few who were renown for their physical humor. I adore Tina Fey, but sometimes she does seem caught between standard SNL gross-out humor and still looking pretty. (No matter how ridiculous and awkward she's supposed to be on 30 Rock, she still looks gorgeous in every episode!). I think the reviewer was just saying that she is still navigating that territory...

I really wanted to see Baby Mama because I think the two of them (TF and AP) are incredible, but I've heard it's only okay...should I go or will I be disappointed...?

I'll go . . . it looks kinda ridiculous, but I can't skip out on a movie with TF and AP as the headliners!

This line bugs me: "She isn’t big enough to make a joke of her ripeness, like Bette Midler . . ." I don't know, maybe I'm reading too much into it. Still, it seems like he's implying that large women should make jokes about being large because somehow that's funny. Or at least, they CAN make jokes about their bodies, because it's somehow funnier than being thin . . .

The flip side, of course, is that it's pretty difficult to get cast in anything if you're not hot/skinny/graceful.

Still, it seems like he's implying that large women should make jokes about being large because somehow that's funny.

I think that's right. It happens to larger male comedians as well though, and is part of a fattist "either amuse me or go away" attitude that permeates our popular culture's attitude toward people larger than what is perceived to be the norm. Still, men have it easier than women, in this as in most other things to do with the entertainment industry.

Well, you know, because if you're beautiful you can't REALLY be funny. And if you're not beautiful, you're not going to be cast in a "funny" movie! See how that works?

This article disgusted me but then most of the New Yorker reviews do because they love SPOILERS GALORE. And yes, the article actually says who cares about the women when Steve Marting is unleashing his inner child or some shit. Completely pathetic.

Doesn't the New Yorker have like 2% women writers or something like that?

Yeah, my favorite part was the conclusion that oh man, thank God Steve Martin's in this movie, because the women's storylines were taking up sooooo much time! Or something. Hang on, who are the lead actors in this again?

The "barren jealousy" line was nice too. Granted, I've not seen the movie and God knows it's not out of the realm of possibility that Tina Fey's character might have a good dose of The Stereotype That Wouldn't Die written into her, but even if that's the case, you'd think a magazine so famously in love with its own liberalism could be trusted to have our backs when sexism in the culture rears its ugly head. I suppose I should know better by now.

I like Anthony Lane in small doses -- he can be pretty funny -- but his pretentiousness is hard enough to take on a good day. If it's going to extend into his spending half of a movie review taking a good long critical look at Tina Fey's body, then thanks anyway, but I'll stick with Shouts & Murmurs.

Amanda--
True. That is a good point. Lizzy said what I meant a little more clearly. Also since it is a pressure for men and women, it isn't entirely sexist. (Although, more pressure for women, so still somewhat sexist, and yes, still wrong.)

It sounds to me like he's saying she's too pretty to be funny (since of course women who are too fat or too thin by society's standards are immediately laughable). Lucille Ball was also too pretty to be funny, so she presented herself as incompetent instead. Tina Fey needs to stop being either pretty or competent, because both together is not amusing!

Poehler and Fey are funny. I don't know why they're in a screenplay by the guy who gave us the Austin Powers sequels.

A reasonable review if I had requested to hear about the comedians' bodies and clothing. Odd that he assumed that request.

XKCD has an interesting table of data to show the rarity of having two female leads in a film.
http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/04/10/two-female-leads/

eh I do see this as sexist but I also see it as something that happens to comedians in movies. Whether its bette midler as mentioned in the article, chris farley, chevy chase, or anyone else, a lot of comedians use their bodys either for physical comedy or to enhance their jokes like jim carrey. Tiny Fey does the same thing, just like mike meyers, dana carvey or jon stewart, using facial expressions as a key element of their humor. Elayne Boosler, Laura Kightlinger and others also do it. A lot of comedians can look awkward on film, thankfully Fey doesnt.

As far as Fey or someone like Sarah Silverman being too pretty to be funny...well when exactly was the last time you saw a really handsome male comedian? Especially a standup one, if I remember correctly a lot of male comedians riff on their lack of conventional physical attractiveness.
On another note I think some people just get insanely jealous of women as beautiful as Fey who are also extremely funny and talented, the same people who get cheesed off when the jock sports star gets a rhodes scholarship, some people cant seem to handle it.

I don't get the part about the skirt either. 2 inches above the knee is... short? Long?

"Unflattering". As in, it's a length that (supposedly) makes women's legs look fat. It seems like he was saying she's not thin enough to be an attractive leading lady, but not fat enough to have a funny body. Which is somewhat infuriating. Reminds me of a line from 30 Rock (from Alex Baldwin's boss character to an actress who had gained a little weight): "I need you to either lose 10 pounds or gain 40."

"well when exactly was the last time you saw a really handsome male comedian?"

Dane Cook. He's rich and beautiful. Whether or not he should actually be called a comedian is still up for debate though.

Maybe the quote was taking a little out of context, and wasn't just meant to be offensive totally, but instead saying that the physical humor was cliche and that Tina Fey has more to her comedy than being reduced to frumpy clothes...."Much of the film boils down to Poehler and Fey hanging out and jousting, and connoisseurs of oddness may glimpse the ghosts of Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau looking on with twitches and grouches of approval. Angie is skinny to Kate’s curves, loose-tongued to her zipped-up sense of fun, fertile to her barren jealousy. Angie wears pedal pushers and tank tops, whereas Kate stalks around bare-legged in skirts that lurch to a halt two inches above the knee, which is a length that Christy Turlington would struggle to carry off...."

Although, I'm not clear by the authors point because his comment does seem a bit abrasive towards female comedians. I just find it interesting how much press a female staring 2 female comedians is getting.

Maybe the quote was taking a little out of context, and wasn't just meant to be offensive totally, but instead saying that the physical humor was cliche and that Tina Fey has more to her comedy than being reduced to frumpy clothes...."Much of the film boils down to Poehler and Fey hanging out and jousting, and connoisseurs of oddness may glimpse the ghosts of Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau looking on with twitches and grouches of approval. Angie is skinny to Kate’s curves, loose-tongued to her zipped-up sense of fun, fertile to her barren jealousy. Angie wears pedal pushers and tank tops, whereas Kate stalks around bare-legged in skirts that lurch to a halt two inches above the knee, which is a length that Christy Turlington would struggle to carry off...."

Although, I'm not clear by the authors point because his comment does seem a bit abrasive towards female comedians. I just find it interesting how much press a female staring 2 female comedians is getting.

I want to come to Anthony Lane's defense here, as I'm a long-time fan of his reviews (which are intelligent, funny, and usually markedly respectful of women's work in the film industry). Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't really see the sexism in this review unless quotes from it are taken out of context.

As one of the actor here pointed out: "It seems that the criticism is more of Tina Fey's use of her body than of her body itself. Using your body properly is a/the critical part of being an actor of either gender, no matter what shape that body may be."

As for the comment about the clothes, Lane wasn't *criticizing Fey* for her wardrobe or body, he was describing the difference (particularly the class difference) between the two lead characters in the film and the way that their contrasting clothes are visual cues symbolizing those differences: Kate, the up-tight, middle-class woman, has been dressed by the filmmakers in unflattering business skirts, while Angi, the wise-cracking, working class character, has been dressed in more frivolous, more revealling clothes: pedal pushers and tank tops. (He's explicitly comparing the two characters to a previous "mis-matched" comedy duo: prissy Jack Lemmon and slovenly Walter Mathau in "The Odd Couple.")

Lane himself doesn't indicate any *personal* perference for how the characters should dress -- he is merely pointing out the contrasting clothes as a visual marker of the "Odd Couple" relationship between them.

Overall, he's fairly positive about Fey and Poehler's performances, reserving his primary criticisms for the film's direction. And although he does single out the performances of actors in minor roles for particular praise, it's not just a man, Steve Martin, that he lauds but also Sigourney Weaver.

ARG!