A Saudi court ruled that a man had not, in fact, attempted to rape a woman (despite the fact that she leapt out a window to get away from him) because her jeans were found folded on the bed.

South Korean court, which the author was comparing to the Saudi courts for this absurdity.

That article about female doctors was amazingly non-ironic. The premise is that women aren't working enough, and that's because there's pressure on women to take the lion's share of family work. But still, we can't expect society to change how much it sucks, so we'll have to punish some brilliant, talented women. Oh, and men graduating from med school are doing the exact same thing as the women, but it's clearly the women's fault.

When the conclusion disproves everything that was said earlier, maybe that article shouldn't have been written at all.

I think *real* story in the women doctors article was buried at the end:

The issue of shorter work weeks may in fact be as much generational as gender-based. Newly minted male doctors are also rejecting the heroic 80-hour weeks put in by physicians of yesteryear. Ultimately, medicine will have to accommodate the lifestyle demands of a younger generation if it is to address the physician shortage, says Dr. Nancy Oriol, dean of students for Harvard Medical School. "If there is a problem with retention, it might serve us well to investigate details of the career paths themselves."

Where's the article on that?

In other words, what Cassie said.

The one about stem cells coming from menstrual blood is really cool. It would mean a lot, not only to heart patients, but to people with leukemia, metabolic disorders, and blood disorders, who may possibly be able to have full stem cell transplants from that source some day, as opposed to using bone marrow. (Not saying that it will happen, just that it might, and it would be very cool if it did).

About the sexy housecleaning service: yes, it's kind of shallow. But if the people doing it are doing it consensually and not being forced to, why are other people's fetishes any of my business? Am I the only feminist who's fed up with the constant hand-wringing over the kinds of consensual sexual activities other people are having?

Whether I had kids or not, I would rather not work over 50 hours a week, preferably not over 40. And why are some specialties paid less? Don't all these doctors have the same amount of education?

soupchef -

I agree with you wrt dust bunnies, except, from the info on the website, these women are not making enough money for what they are doing. It says $100/hr, but not how much of that money goes to the AGENCY vs. the WORKER....also, tips are not expected.

From my experience in sex work, I'm guessing these girls aren't walking away with anything substantial for actually cleaning a house in high heels AND the sexual labor. I'd be on board if the women could set their own rates/demand more compensation.

I think the article on bullying is interesting. There have been many times when my mother has said, "oh, girls are just catty like that," for a variety of situations, from fights between girls I was friends with in middle school to rumors that my college friend's fiance was cheating on her. I get really tired of hearing this; I feel like most women I know have better things to do that "just be catty" because they're bored or something. It's a learned behavior, not something that we all do instinctively.

I know that mags like Harper's Bazaar print this kind of crappy, condescending "advice" for women all the time, but it's so much more icky coming from Ashton Kutcher. Ick!

I really liked that article about stem cells coming from menstrual blood. Although somehow I can hear some people saying that that proves that "women are biologically meant to take care of others" and blah blah blah (ok...I already heard someone say this when I told them about this article :S)

That article about women doctors interests me. I've looked at statistics for medical schools in Ontario, Canada...and this year, about 60% of the new class (class of 2010) is female. As a (hopeful) future doctor myself, I think this is great, because I know I don't have to worry about being discriminated again when I apply. But if articles like these keep coming out...ugh...it's like all this progress is for nothing. You could generalize this author's comments to pretty much every other career that is out there. UGH...when will people realize that the sole purpose of our existence is NOT to have kids!!!!!

I really liked that article about stem cells coming from menstrual blood. Although somehow I can hear some people saying that that proves that "women are biologically meant to take care of others" and blah blah blah (ok...I already heard someone say this when I told them about this article :S)

That article about women doctors interests me. I've looked at statistics for medical schools in Ontario, Canada...and this year, about 60% of the new class (class of 2010) is female. As a (hopeful) future doctor myself, I think this is great, because I know I don't have to worry about being discriminated again when I apply. But if articles like these keep coming out...ugh...it's like all this progress is for nothing. You could generalize this author's comments to pretty much every other career that is out there. UGH...when will people realize that the sole purpose of our existence is NOT to have kids!!!!!

On average, all new doctors now tend to work fewer hours, but women are much more likely to work fewer days than men. As in, they more frequently have part-time appointments, at least within academia. Men take part time positions as well for the same reasons, but much less frequently.

Most women I know who work part time do so from a position of empowerment. It's inaccurate to say they do so primarily because they still feel pressure to take on "the lion's share of family work." Unless you consider enjoying spending more with your children "family work." I'd call it having your cake and eating it too.

It's a perfectly rational decision to make less money and have more time with children when that less money is still a lot of money.

Being a physician is a strong source of privilege. We always talk about gender and race privilege before we talk about class privilege, but in this case, we are talking about a set of tremendously privileged individuals.

Overall, gender issues in professional medicine is much more progressive than in other professions. Patients and physicians themselves benefit greatly from diversity, and while it is important to know how much different demographics are going to work for planning how many physicians to train to meet needs for the future, it shouldn't in any way devalue the importance of having gender equity in the profession.

I have no idea why my comment got posted 3 times :S

Lyndorr:

Not every doctor has the exact same amount of education. Different specialties have to go through very different education after their basic medical training. Some might be done school in their mid-twenties, and others not even until they're 30.

Isn't there already a couple of those dust bunnies naked maid services out there? I remember reading an article about one awhile ago; the customer they interviewed made it clear that he has a "real" maid service for cleaning, and these women for fun. The women also said that they weren't expected to clean, and were usually shocked when someone did tell them to scrub the tub. They mostly dusted and vacuumed.

And why are some specialties paid less? Don't all these doctors have the same amount of education?

That's a very complicated question, and has little to do with amount of education or length of training.

Basically, medical reimbursement in America pays more for doing than thinking. Procedure-heavy specialties (ENT, derm, ophthy, plastics, obstetrics, ER) make a lot of money. Thinking specialties make much less (pediatrics, family medicine, psychiatry, etc.)

Even comparing internal medicine subspecialties, which have similar lengths of training, a cardiologist or a GI doc will make 2-3x what an endocrinologist or a rheumatologist would make. The difference is, cardiologists and GI docs stick catheters and cameras into your body, while endocrinologists and rheumatologists just think really hard.

And pediatric sub-specialists make much less money than their adult counterparts.

Primary care specialties (general internal medicine, pediatrics, and family medicine) have the shortest training time, and make much less than their specialist friends.

Do you realize that women are strongly encouraged to go into family medicine and pediatrics, Pup MD?

I'm really disappointed that the article on Judd Apatow didn't discuss Forgetting Sarah Marshall specifically. I've always been supportive of Apatow movies, but something about this one did not sit right with me.

SarahMC, by whom specifically? If you mean by families and friends, I could believe it. I haven't seen a lot of systematic encouragement into any specialties within the institutions themselves.

I'd say that people who value more flexible lifestyles are encouraged to go into specialties that provide more flexible lifestyles. Because of demand and lower overhead, primary care specialties are extremely flexible. So is ER. So is dermatology. Surgical subspecialties are less so, because of the need for regular OR schedules, hospital coverage, etc.

Maybe I've just been in a more progressive environment, but most of my best friends who were women in medical school became surgeons. And most of my male friends became pediatricians.

The three women I knew who became orthopedic surgeons were actively encouraged by the department, who were actually excited to have women applying to the field. It was really a cool dynamic. And ortho is probably the worst "old boys club" in all of medicine.

And seeing as I was the only male member of the AMWA group at my med school (and the only straight member, for a while, of the LGBT organization), I'd say I was at least paying attention to these dynamics. :0)

This is obviously anecdotal, and maybe I've just been lucky enough to be stuck in liberal enclaves of academia. But I honestly see women being encouraged by the institution to do whatever they want. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I honestly believe medicine is light years ahead of other fields in terms of gender equity. At least, for young doctors.

That Ashton Kutcher article makes me want to punch something. "Truth in Advertising...take off the pantsuit"?! Women aren't here for your viewing pleasure, pal. Ugh.

Woah, I am completely blown away! Thanks so much for linking me!

A few years ago, didn't a court in Italy rule that a woman wearing skinny jeans couldn't be raped as well?

I couldn't even get through the first page of the Ashton article...

It's interesting that the research on menstrual blood took place in Japan, where (so I've read) menstruation isn't perceived as a "curse" or "dirty." I wonder if the same kind of project would even get proposed on this side of the Pacific.

"About the sexy housecleaning service: yes, it's kind of shallow. But if the people doing it are doing it consensually and not being forced to, why are other people's fetishes any of my business? Am I the only feminist who's fed up with the constant hand-wringing over the kinds of consensual sexual activities other people are having?"

No, I whole-heartedly second your post. I appreciate the feministing attention to these articles, but I'm getting rather fed up with the "sigh" or the "still.." one word, disengaged commentary that indicates some sort of victimhood lack of agency. I've said it before, and I will say it again - when women make willing and informed decisions to *profit* off of their objectification, there is nothing wrong with the women who choose to engage in this type of work. and yes, maybe feministing isn't saying there is anything wrong, but i mean really how would i know? there is not much more than a one word comment, leaving one to assume the point of including that topic to begin with.

SarahMC and Pup, MD:
I have definitely been encouraged to pursue family medicine rather than any other specialty by several people, although for many different reasons. Here in Northern Ontario, there's a shortage of family doctors, so obviously, people are trying to encourage more people to specialize in that. Even the Northern medical school gives preference to students who show interest in family medicine, when applying...the pressure isn't just on the women.
The only people who tell me that I should become a family doctor because I'm a woman are my parents, relatives, and well...pretty much every Indian (that I know) in my parents' generation. It's funny...my dad actually once told me that if I specialized in something that involves long hours, and on-calls, my future husband would run away from me LOL. My dad's a gyneacologist, and when I mentioned that I might want to do that, he told me, "no, it's too many hours for a woman". hahaha
I've never really noticed any pressure from Canadian society to become a certain type of doctor...but then again...I'm not even in medschool yet...so I can't really judge just yet

“there is nothing wrong with the women who choose to engage in this type of work.�
Uh, did Ann imply that there was anything wrong with the WOMEN? No she didn’t. However, if you can’t recognize that there is something wrong with a cleaning service where women clean your house in French maid outfits, with the people who hire them, and with the society that condones that, then I don’t know what to tell you. I mean, how many stereotypes and sexist societal expectations can you fit in one job description? You know people who work in sweatshops have agency too. Do you make the same arguments about them?
Oh, and I personally prefer to cover up my body and wear latex gloves when working with cleaning products, I don’t about you.

I forget their exact words but 'In a competition often criticised for objectifying women, she's breaking the size zero stereotype'?? Way to willfully miss the point, CNN. Like the objectifying nature of beauty pageants suddenly evaporates because they allow a size 16 girl to pose in a bikini as well.

Because objectification is just all about 'stereotypes'! CNN,I roll my eyes at you.

Word, sojourner. As always, I second your post. Nobody's saying that there's anything wrong with the women. However, if you are claiming that such a decision does not encourage and support a damaging, misogynist sexual dynamic, I have to disagree, and as a feminist, I object.

One wonders what OSHA has to say about this. There are health issues surrounding cleaning products.

Arpaio and McCain are enormous jackasses. Nothing good ever comes out of Arizona. I love the state I live in.

If you mean by families and friends, I could believe it. I haven't seen a lot of systematic encouragement into any specialties within the institutions themselves.

But even if medicine has truly reached complete gender equality, family and friends count, too. And society as a whole (excepting doctors, of course) thinks that in the "normal family" women go home early to stay with kids, and make meals for everyone else, and do the majority of household chores. But people are people, not embodiments of gender roles, so some dads like to spend time with children, and some moms would rather work a few extra hours than go home. However, dads can't get paternity leave, and they can't regularly leave work early. But moms *can*, so they do, and they do because it might not get done otherwise. And this is where family and friends come in - even highly educated, independent women don't want to be seen with a messy house and crappy food, and they generally don't want to be seen leaving their kids with their housekeepers all day, because that's "bad mothering". Then, people assume that because moms leave their jobs early, it must because every single one of them loves it, because there's clearly no outside pressure. No one acknowledges that we've structured the entire system this way. But since it's natural, we shouldn't ask why dads who love their kids don't get just as much time off, we should just complain about how mothers are taking time off. Which is exactly what the article is doing. And if your friends are totally empowered about it, good for them. Most of us here try to do the same thing. But not every does, or can, and we're talking about improving things for them.

The Ashton Kutcher thing was awful. Yes, his sexism was offensive, but I surprised myself by being perhaps even more offended by how he failed to examine his privilege as a wealthy person. Fuck the fucking rich.

About the plus size woman in Miss England: I hate this because I hate pageants and what they represent. But I hate it more because I'm certain it will be followed by a stream of articles and op-eds insisting that she can't be beautiful because she's 'unhealthy.' And that she should just disappear instead. I hate those as-yet unwritten articles even more than I hate beauty pageants.

On Cristina Ricci: I don't think that her comment betrays a wish for the 1950's. It seems to me that it was just the 1990's when it was cool to teach your daughters to reject objectification.

Lots of women have bought into their own enslavement and the role of patriarchal definitions of beauty and self. That is not the issue, quite. I think that she is getting at a different (or added?) phenomenon: a materialism that encourages a deeper kind of self-definition built on bartering oneself as a product. Not talking about just selling the body, here; more like "branding" the persona, like a politician might.

I honestly believe medicine is light years ahead of other fields in terms of gender equity. At least, for young doctors.

I literally laughed out loud when I read this. I suggest reading "Walking Out on the Boys" by Frances Conley - a true eye-opener about sexism at Stanford in the 90's (perhaps a bit dated, but the acts she describes are still more recent than I would like). Many people in scientific fields seem to think that things are equal and dandy because superficially women are encouraged. But, people don't ask more fundamental questions about how the fields are structured, what types of behavior are accepted/encouraged from professors and peers, and what types of schedules are realistic.

Things might be getting better, sure. But to say things are light years ahead of other fields? That's a big stretch.

sorjourner:
I really love your immediate extreme leap to a comparison with sweatshops from a discussion about a topless maid service. I think you and i both know that the comparison there is absolutely ridiculous, but just in case you don't understand that, let me explain. a topless maid service, and also a nude sushi model (consult last week's feminist reader) are *most* often informed and willing women (and sometimes men, again consult last week's reader) who do not have their backs pushed against the wall to participate in this kind of labor. As last week's reader showed, many of the sushi models *enjoyed* having their nude bodies used to serve sushi off of, and I would *suggest* that some of these maids enjoy their work as well. And for you so say they don't, to say that there is absolutely no way both parties in the maid service could *possibly* be participating willingly, and enjoying what they do, is to assume too much. Is this objectification? absolutely. is this tantamount to forced prostitution or (your extreme arguement of:) sweat shops? no. it's not.

and secondly. i didn't say that ann (in fact, i refered to feministing as an entity) said ANYthing was wrong with it. But I also used my deductive skills and figured that if this was A-ok with the feministing crowd, it wouldn't be up there to begin with. And as I said in my first post (which I'm really unsure you read thoroughly), maybe feministing didn't say there was anything wrong with it, but the one-word disengaged commentary provided on the reader would leave one wondering and force assumptions as to why *is* it on the reader to begin with?

The problem with the French maid business is the same problem with most sex work. It isn't with the women (and men) who are working... it is with their creepy clients who want to spend money in order to turn someone into an object.

And as for the women doctors. While institutional sexism may be well on the retreat, societal gender conditioning still plays a huge role here, just as with any other aspect of society. My favorite anecdote involves my female med school classmate who said she is going to quit medicine *entirely* once she starts having kids, even though her husband makes at most a third of her potential income. There are plenty of less extreme examples... such as the female resident who takes two months of maternity leave, while her resident husband is back to work the next day... or some individual old-school surgeons who are still blatantly sexist (even if the surgery department itself is not). To fix this, you have to fix our patriarchal society as a whole.

HAHAHA! The same day that I find the dust bunnies advertising on craigslist, they get written up and bemoaned here. FYI, they screen all their clinets and the workers get $18/hr to start up to $35. Hardly sex work. Hardly worth it really, except that I'm sure there's major tips for conforming to whatever the fucker wants from you. That's really all it's about right? It really seems like a submission fetish on all fronts, and some deeply ingrained self-hate on the women's end. Fuck that pro-sexy bullshit about "they just want to be sex toys for low wages, they choose the low pay!"
Hellooooo, it's the patriarchy ladies. Wake up.
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/etc/658012782.html

sgzax - sorry to depress you but those articles have already been written! How horribly predictable.

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/04/daily_mail_atta

Wait, so domination/submission fantasies are a product of the patriarchy?

What about dominant females and submissive males? And what about people who do same-gender D/s play?

SoupChef.
To be honest, your question seems either silly, ignorant or obnoxious - I'll take it as harmless ignorance.
Come on, this has been written about hundreds of times, debated, blogged etc - you would be much more enlightened by doing a little reading than asking me. Form you own opinions on these things, but imho - female submission to a male dominant is fucked on many many levels no matter how you tell yourself it aint. Female dominance I see as a reclamation of sexual power, and cheer it on. Same sex d/s play is, in my experience, free (mostly) of the patriarchal overtones. Yet the bedroom doesn't exist in a vacuum and it sure doesn't help us to pretend that it does. Make the bedroom (or workplace or streets, etc) a site of revolt against the patriarchy, not "playing" at perpetuating fucked up shit. You can't pretend to be oppressed when, in fact you already are a priori.
Take it with a grain of salt, and as I said, do a little research. I think sexual power dynamics are far too fucking important to remain uneducated on - check out plenty of different views, please.

Nothing good ever comes out of Arizona. I love the state I live in.

Transplants like Arpaio and McCain do not define Arizona, which has always included many different rich and diverse cultures. Thanks, and I am sure your state is ok too.

Someone has already pointed this out but I'll just reiterate: It was a Korean court that came up with the bizarre jeans defense, and not a Saudi court.

I also used my deductive skills and figured that if this was A-ok with the feministing crowd, it wouldn't be up there to begin with.

Might want to work on those deductive skills.
We have a problem with those who'd patronize this service, not the women doing the work.

About the Dust bunny thing.....

I don't have any problems with any kind of sexual experiences people choose to have. My problem is the ONE-SIDED aspect. I think most things are ok in the void, but when you put them in the context of realities of our society, they are not so ok anymore.

Why are "women" the sexual object almost 99% of the time? Why do women always play the submissive role? Why are 90% of plastic surgeries on women (these are all choices)? Why do 6 women choose to live with hugh hefner and the whole setup is considered cool? Why do women pay money and eat at hooters but a man would never pay to go to a similar establishment with sexy male servers (I know there is the issue of homophobia)?

I'm not suggesting we should shame the bunny/maids, but that we should become more educated about this one-sidedness and the problems it causes for all of us, so people (and especially women) can make informed choices as workers, business-owners or as consumers. This is what's missing and this is what makes most of us choose things that hurt us in the long run. And I know there is not enough good information because this discussion is not in the mainstream.

Having a choice without having good information is just barely better than not having a choice at all.

Re: Menstrual stem cells

Wow. I am not usually awed by the power of the female body, but the fact that our bodies just discard stuff that can be used to regrow heart tissue is pretty fucking awesome.

**Yah for Chloe** I am all about loving your body no matter what shape, size, etc! I have never liked beauty pageants either. But, for someone to want to break down what "beauty" means in a pageant...I support her efforts!!

I knew I have always like Christina Ricca for a reason!

Yes, young woman are totally discriminated against. We come out of school with freighter loads of student debt and we are told to find a job. What job... the job that 10,000 other people are looking for. Since I have finished graduate school I have been told I am overqualified with my degree and underqualified for any other job that is not entry level. They want the perfect corporate citizen, even in the non-profit area. In a temp job I had the carrot was dangled in front of my face for so long and when I asked what was going on they kicked me out like there was no tomorrow. Certainly, well educated and well intentioned young ladies will experience much discrimination out in the world...I have many times.

Emily: I'm not seeing Forgetting Sarah Marshall, for no other reason than the terrible ad billboards they've put up in our metroplex that say "I HATE YOU, SARAH MARSHALL" in black handwritten letters on white, with the URL ihatesarahmarshall.com below. There's no clue that this is movie related at all on the billboards, it's just a big expression of hatred and anger against a woman. Yuck.

Marlisa:

Basically, what you're saying is that female submissives have to avoid sexually satisfying behavior in order to fight the patriarchy, while male submissives can freely engage in the same behavior *as* a fight against the patriarchy.

So... to fight male privilege, males get... more privilege?

About the sexy housecleaning service: yes, it's kind of shallow. But if the people doing it are doing it consensually and not being forced to, why are other people's fetishes any of my business?

And that is a big if. Housecleaning is not exactly a field one gets into when one has a glut of options, and when that is combined with the added thrill of getting to spray abrasive solvents without anything covering rather sensitive areas of your skin, the likelihood of women with lots of choices jumping at the opportunity plumments even farther. The fact is that there will be women for whom a job like this may be the only thing they can find to pay the rent. A Hobson's choice is a choice in name only.

Yeah, I have to agree with Sepra...that was a totally uncalled for generalization about Arizona. I get tired of seeing things like that here. I know people need to vent their frustrations, but it always ends up sounding ignorant when they make sweeping generalizations about whole groups of people/entire places/whatever.

You know, kind of like how it's annoying when other people make sweeping generalizations about feminists. It gets old.

"Am I the only feminist who's fed up with the constant hand-wringing over the kinds of consensual sexual activities other people are having?"

No. I agree. Though I also agree with the person who mentioned these women not making enough for their effort/the pain of cleaning in heels. I feel the same way about porn, strip clubs, prostitution and other such sex/fetish related things. I have NO problem with them on an intellectual, idealistic level, but I think the workers need to be treated/paid better. And I think that taking the stigma and hand-wringing (and criminalization) AWAY would help with that. If something is right there in your face you're more likely to see the problems and fix them. If we just over-react and assume everyone involved is a victim that plays into the perceived "badness" of it and any victimization or mistreatment that does happen will only get worse.

Also, I too am torn between hating pageants and wanting Chloe Marshall to win. Though, to be honest, she barely classifies as "plus sized" (she's a size 16 UK which is a 12/14 US). Not to mention the fact that in an interview she prefers euphemisms like curvy or plus to the word fat because to her fat = lazy and unhealthy. I would love to see a plus (or at least average!) sized woman win a "normal" pageant (meaning, something like Miss USA instead of Miss BBW) but I'd also like her to use the spotlight as a positive body image role model for young women and girls.

Marshall has inspired a LOT of fat hate. You really see the ugly side of people when you threaten their status quo.

Just FYI, the woman who made the Arizona comment lives in Arizona... so she was taking a shot at her own state there.

(I must admit I do that a lot being from Indiana, but if someone seriously hates on the state, then I get super-defensive).

Um, isn't Christina Ricci the actress in Black Snake Moan? Hmmm

And YEAH for Danica Patrick!!! As an avid follower of F1 racing, my husband and I have had many heated debates about whether a woman could ever compete and win at an F1 level. Danica just brought us a little closer!!!

On the topless maids:
I highly advise people to read 1. Barbara Eirenreich's "Nickel and Dimed" and 2. Gloria Steinem's "I was a Playboy Bunny" (dated, but still relevant). What the employers promise and what actually happens to the maids/bunnies tends to be vastly different. Even if some women enjoy the submission fantasy, I can't imagine they fully enjoy being objectified (and likely harassed, if Eirenreich and Steinem's experiences are standard) on a daily basis. I'd like to hear a voice from the inside...for *some* reason this never seems to happen.

I'd like to hear a voice from the inside...for *some* reason this never seems to happen.

Could be something to do with long working hours and no money getting in the way of computer ownership and usage.

Damn. This is the first time I've wished I had a uterus endometrium to slough.

And, yes, there is a problem with the "Dust Bunnies" bit. The French maid fantasy is all about having power over someone, and power differences in sex are per se problematic.

sgzax I am so with you Re: Ashton Kutcher's ridiculous failure to write anything the average person could relate to. I mean what circles does he run in that label-dropping is actually an issue that needs to be addressed via editorial?

It's interesting that the research on menstrual blood took place in Japan, where (so I've read) menstruation isn't perceived as a "curse" or "dirty."

Uh... not really. If you buy sanitary towels at the convenience store (tampons are difficult to buy outside Tokyo/Kanto region), they will wrap them up tightly in a brown paper bag and then another plastic bag so no one ever knows your menstruation shame. Refusing the bag for the sake of the environment just confuses the clerk.

I just saw this article and sadly now wonder if it'll be used to badmouth rape victims reporting rapes: http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/04/27/was_woman_raped_on_telephone/5602/

Apparently the number of doctors in Italy who refuse to perform abortions is on the rise:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/europe/23fbriefs-RISEINDOCTOR_BRF.html?ref=europe

70%. Not sure if that's news to most of you here, but it made me say "holy shit!" out loud.

Idiot college newspaper fun.

An article actually entitled Please, Have the Kid, We'll Deal With It: http://www.volanteonline.com/media/storage/paper468/news/2008/04/23/Opinion/Please.Have.The.Kid.Well.Deal.With.It-3342540.shtml

Then the editor assures us that it was all just "sarcastic." But, just so you know, "If you are a moral individual and you believe fully in your heart the tenets of liberty, than aborting an unborn child (regardless of the stage of birth) is absolutely wrong.": http://volanteopinion.wordpress.com/2008/04/26/the-abortion-debate/

Dress how you want to be treated??? (Ashton Kutcher) Ugh! Not only is that an awful statement, but that could also be at the discretion of the man and his opinion of how she's dressing and wants to be treated. So, if I'm not dressing to Ashton's standards, I can be treated like shit??? Sure! What an asswipe!

Just FYI, the woman who made the Arizona comment lives in Arizona... so she was taking a shot at her own state there.

(I must admit I do that a lot being from Indiana, but if someone seriously hates on the state, then I get super-defensive).

Sorry for the thread derail, I just wanted to explain where I'm coming from.

Re: Ricci, why do people assume she's stuck on 1950s nostalgia? She says "!e used to teach our daughters not to be this way." For all we know, she was talking about the second wave. That sounds more in-line with the context of the rest of her statement than the 1950s does...

Unitari, I couldn't agree with you more. Isn't there a gigantic difference b/t someone who is being paid for it, and someone who is doing it as part of a mutually beneficial relationship (and I don't necessarily mean long-term relationship, I just mean in the sense that no one is paying someone else, usually a woman).

Oh my Godric (Gryffindor), pull rank. That article was fucking horrific. It makes me want to apply for a visa, buy an expensive round trip ticket, go to the states, and punch him in the face. Not that violence solves anything, of course.

sepra: I agree with you 100%! I was born and raised near Lake Havasu, and have lived in Phoenix for the last (almost) 8 years. It's amazing how people will move here and then immediatley start complaining. Drives me batty.

sepra, why does that other person necessarily have to be a transplant making remarks about az?

i'm a texan, born and raised, and i'll make disparaging remarks about my state (hell, i'll make disparaging remarks about my entire country) when i see fit. doesn't mean i'm not proud to be a texan, or that i hate texas (i actually miss it dearly right now), but hell...if the shoes fits... *shrug*

faerietails: It's not the occasional disparaging remarks people make (we all do it, regardless of where we're from), it's the ... "OMG, where I'm from is SO much better than Arizona. I mean, ARIZONA?! I'm from *insert city/state* and we're just so much better than Arizona because *insert stupid reason*."

I am the modd over at azjournal @ livejournal and we get it a LOOOOOOOT. People move to Arizona (without researching, it seems) and then they complain about it. Constantly. "There's nothing to dooooo." (Lies.) "There are no good restaurants!" (Lies, again.) "It's UGLY AND BROWN!" (More lies.) "OMG, it's HOT!" (Duh?) "There is no public transportation!" or "The public transportation STINKS!" (It's not perfect but I've used it EVERY DAY for the last 8 years just fine; we're just a spread out city which makes public transportation difficult). And most people forget that we have Flagstaff and Sedona and Kingman and the Colorado River, etc.

It's mostly people who come to Phoenix that complain. They ignore the awesome restaurants we have, the great art culture, the music, the sports, the vast outdoors, and just sit indoors and complain and constantly compare to where they came from. It's painful.

Also, I'm avoiding work, sorry for babbling. ;)

I didn't think the Ashton Kutcher article was so bad. It's a male insight on the type of women he finds attractive and he gave some good advice. Don't wear too much perfume, because that offends every person you meet, not just a male. I would pass that advice to any of my friends. Trash talking other women is also unattractive to everyone, not just men. I'd love if women could stop doing that. Selfishness, bradn dropping, all these things are good advice fro any woman to be a respectable person in everyday life and I'm sure they do make her a more attractive woman to men too. There are so many worse "Be attractive to men" stories out there, this one was much less harmless and a lot more useful.

"On the other hand, it's really hot when you're dressed up but wearing a cheap little bracelet. It shows you don't take yourself too seriously".

Yeah, that's bad. Maybe because now I don't take myself so seriously, I should wear my cheap little bracelet while I sign up to work as a Dust Bunny. Thanks a lot Ashton. Need your gigantic house cleaned?

AnnaRose - I don't get it. He shouldn't have a jewelry preference because he (presumably) lives in a big house? And what does that have to do with topless maids?

I hear you, AnnaRose. I mean, most women work to support themselves. Many work to support their families. Even if you get over the insulting inanity of this man offering advice on how to be the kind of woman he likes, how is "don't brag about your Prada bag" going to be of any use to... most people in the fucking world? On this thread we're also talking about the implications of sexually exploitive work, but I'll bet the women considering topless toilet scrubbing as a life choice are not the same ones thinking, "Hey, I'll wear this kicky cheap bracelet with my Versace and maybe Ashton will notice me."

To unpack it a little for you noname, I just really hate the rich. I hate that they don't even recognize the advantages they have most of the time and I hate that they often seem to think that they really worked for what they have.

Because the kind of work that gets you a Prada bag is almost never as hard or demeaning as the kind of work that pays for a new muffler on a ten year old car.

It's true; besides Aston's comments being useless to most people, it's degrading and insulting that if you don't take yourself "seriously", who will? Certainly not Ashton Kutcher. How does wearing equal a "cheap little bracelet" equal not taking oneself seriously? I think it might be the opposite, because money in this case is not literally being pissed away.

One demeaning image, signified by a bracelet, meets another demeaning image, this of scantily-clad women cleaning, of "service" to others, both tied up in the old adage of power and money. Put the two together and you've got one degraded image of womanhood. Sad.

However, deconstruct those concepts in a forum like this one and a little bit of feminist ground is gained.

It's true; besides Ashton's comments being useless to most people, it's degrading and insulting to say that, "It shows you don't take yourself too seriously". If you don't take yourself "too seriously", who will? Certainly not Ashton Kutcher. How does wearing equal a "cheap little bracelet" equal not taking oneself seriously? I think it might be the opposite, because money in this case is not literally being pissed away.

One demeaning image, signified by a bracelet, meets another demeaning image, this of scantily-clad women cleaning, of "service" to others, both tied up in the old adage of power and money. Put the two together and you've got one degraded image of womanhood. Sad.

However, deconstruct those concepts in a forum like this one and a little bit of feminist ground is gained.

Does anyone else think Ashton Kutcher probably didn't even write that piece of crap? It's got ghost writer all over it. Which kind of makes it even worse.

Here's a link -

why I'm a feminist

I write for news ltd in Australia and it's my blog for this week.

"how is "don't brag about your Prada bag" going to be of any use to... most people in the fucking world?"

Of course, his article was written for Harper's Bazaar... their "Best Buy of the Day" is a $350 Vera Wang skirt. The article is obviously aimed at people who can afford to own (and obnoxiously brag about) ridiculously expensive luxury items.

Mind you, even after granting him that concession, the tone of his article is still off-putting. This is the quote that bothered me: "Women who wear big blingin' stones don't look like they have a lot of money; they look like they have a lot of someone else's money." What exactly are you trying to say there Ashton? Because it sounds like you're saying they look like gold-diggers or dare I say it prostitutes. But maybe I'm wrong and he's just saying they look like they don't appreciate the hard-earned value of a dollar? (Nahhh)

About the Dust Bunnies thing, and the various responses to it:
1) My former employer has a friend who runs a business like this on her own. Because she wants to be naked and she wants to clean stuff and get paid for it.

2) My husband and I both clean stuff while naked. We hate clothes.

3) I'm a switch. Does that mean I have to become a Domme full time just so I can balance out whatever societal karmic scale you've decided defines mores? I like having him on top and hitting me sometimes, and sometimes I like hitting him.

4) I agree that this isn't the most sex-positive website, but for sex-positivity, I go read the Slog.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Christina Ricci's statement, and I don't think she was referring to the 50's housewife. I think she was referring to the 90's-era trends towards self-assertion.

Why would someone watch Apatow movies after Knocked Up?

And Chloe Marshall is just brave for going into this knowing the kind of international bile she was going to draw. She's not overlarge, but the amount of vitriol towards her has been MASSIVE. I feel like I've been watching this story for months. On the other hand, I worry that she won't be that good at...whatever else it is she does, and lose the competition on that.

About the Dust Bunnies thing, and the various responses to it:
1) My former employer has a friend who runs a business like this on her own. Because she wants to be naked and she wants to clean stuff and get paid for it.

2) My husband and I both clean stuff while naked. We hate clothes.

3) I'm a switch. Does that mean I have to become a Domme full time just so I can balance out whatever societal karmic scale you've decided defines mores? I like having him on top and hitting me sometimes, and sometimes I like hitting him.

4) I agree that this isn't the most sex-positive website, but for sex-positivity, I go read the Slog.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Christina Ricci's statement, and I don't think she was referring to the 50's housewife. I think she was referring to the 90's-era trends towards self-assertion.

Why would someone watch Apatow movies after Knocked Up?

And Chloe Marshall is just brave for going into this knowing the kind of international bile she was going to draw. She's not overlarge, but the amount of vitriol towards her has been MASSIVE. I feel like I've been watching this story for months. On the other hand, I worry that she won't be that good at...whatever else it is she does, and lose the competition on that.

Thank you, marileec, for saying what I was trying to get across.

And when someone says "I love the state I live in" rather than "I love the state I'm from", it spells transplant to me. I could always be worng, it's just the way I took it.

No problem, sepra. As an Arizona native, I hear it all the time. It's one thing to make jokes about where you live or where you're from, but people move here and then tend to compair Phoenix to where their from, forgetting that Phoenix is unique and of course it's not like where they are from. And then they complain about stupid crap without actually knowing what they are talking about. As soon as they say, "Arizona has no culture!" (Really? We're the Wild Wild West for a reason, people!) Or, "There's nothing to DO in Phoenix!" (Really? Um, last time I checked we had tons of live music, some great restaurants, a huge art culture, lots of places to hike, etc.) Or, "It's UGLY!" (Wow, then why did you move TO THE DESERT if you find the desert so ugly?! And what about Flagstaff and Sedona?) Etc. etc. I know that they are then just talkin' out of their ass and not giving Arizona (usually Phoenix itself) a chance at ALL.