“Now if we could only expand the clothing options open to men…� - Courtney

Thanks, but no thanks. I like that I almost always know what is appropriate to wear. I have seen many comments here (correctly) lamenting the lack of a neutral women’s outfit. I think that the wide array of women’s clothing plays a large part in eliminating a standard look. Personal creativity is essential in many parts of life, but I am happy to give that up in the realm of fashion if it affords me the chance to think as little as possible about it while still avoiding most judgement based on it. And yes, pants rock.

HOORAY FOR KILTS!!!!!!!

To be quite honest, I'd love for it to become acceptable for men to wear ruffled miniskirts... because then I'd be allowed to rock the tie and button-down with rolled up sleeves. That look is hot on pretty much everyone.

The wearing of pants is one more reason why Katherine Hepburn was such an awesome woman. She dared to wear pants in the 1930s, plus do sports. There is a great tribute to her style here: http://www.films42.com/tribute/hepburn.asp

This quote from Katherine is at the end of the piece: "Don’t give in. Fight for your future. Women are as good as men. Make your own trail. Don’t moan. Think positively."

Everyone should own a kilt!
http://www.21stcenturykilts.com/gallery.htm

I love being able to wear pants, and when I feel like it, wearing a skirt or a dress. But I agree with Courtney, that options open to men should be expanded upon as well. It seems hypocritical, in my opinion, to be supportive of women's great range of freedom when it comes to clothing options, without addressing the issue that men cannot dress with the same amount of freedom.

Yes, having less freedom of choice would take less thinking/planning/stress, what have you, but for those who don't mind those things, why should our society deem that their choices are limited?

Here's where I brag about my Mum: Back when she was in high school in the early 70's, her school (a Canadian public high school) required female students to wear skirts in the dress code. She and her friends felt that this was unfair and unjust, and organized a small protest, all wearing trousers to school. She was called to the principal's office and told to go home and change or face suspension. My grandparents - bless them! - were in total support of her actions and, eventually, the school's policy was changed to allow female students to wear trousers if they chose.

A group on campus designated yesterday "cross-dressing" day. I saw a dude in a t-shirt and a kilt. Initially, I thought, "Huh. Not sure what I think about that." I concluded that it looked pretty rad.

I love a man in a skirt.

When I was a kid, I remember learning that boys wear pants, and girls wear skirts. Except, I wasn't allowed to wear a skirt, because I didn't behave properly in them. I've never really understood why girls could wear pants when boys couldn't wear skirts.

May I say, in case there's a beginner reading this, that this attitude corresponds to a watered down version of feminism?

I'm referring to

"“Can you be a feminist and wear lipstick or high heels?� Hell yeah, and you know why? Because you can CHOOSE to wear those things. Or CHOOSE not to wear those things."

It's not OK to do something just because you can choose it. Furthermore, there are many circumstances out there where women cannot choose NOT TO wear lipstick, or high heels, or even trousers without facing social ostracism.

I'm def. with Courtney about expanding the options of clothing for men. Men clothing is... well, ew? Maybe it's just cuz I'm a girl, but I dunno. I suspect if guys had the option to dress more freely, they totally would.

And even though I tend to only like girls, a guy who dresses the way *he* feels = pretty darn attractive. Yay personal expression!

I don't wear trousers. In fact, the only times in the last three years I have done so have been:when moving, and when at a fair and going on rides. That's it. Skirts every single day since.

And you know what? The best part is that it's because I ant to wear skirts, not because I have to. Rock on with the choice to wear pants. :)

And agreed that there need to be options for men.

Agreeing with chefmatt, kilts for the win. Worn the traditional way, of course ;)

Ummm....not all choices are true choices. Esp not relating to clothes/makeup for women, even in 2008.
A choice is not a free choice unless all the underlying inequities, stereotypes and mind-control has been washed away, and it sure as h*** has not.

You wear lipstick because it's supposed to signal a turned-on woman and obliquely refer to other red lips on the body; you wear eye-liner or whatever to make your eyes seem wider and more open, again because that's what a woman looks like when she's turned on. Please don't assume or spread the assumption that all this is just fun'n'games and nothing sexual or control-or-power-oriented.

Unfortunately our dress options aren't, perhaps, as concrete as they seem. I'm a student at an all women's university (HU loves feministing!) and when I did an internship recently I got lots of scary info on how it was waaaay more professional for me to wear skirts to the workplace, and I should do so whenever possible. While I love me a pencil skirt, this was January in New York and I arrived on my first day with bright red knees under my pantyhose. It became quickly clear that this wasn't a hard and fast rule at my internship, but another intern working in finance did wear skirts every day. I fail to see why wearing the same attire (pants) as our male coworkers should be any less professional in any circumstances.

To Chevalier and Mary Tracy9: Please, while you are undoubtedly terribly busy patronizing us poor brainwashed femmes about the Real Reasons(tm) we dress/appear the way we do, kindly step back and consider that there may be personal reasons that you somehow have failed to deduce.

Maybe it's just my region and climate, but I've gotten more flack about not wearing trousers than I ever did the other way when I rarely wore skirts.

While I would say that there is definitely a problem in that some place still require a certain mode of dress that is more restrictive for women than men, or reinforces stereotypes (such as, we're not supposed to wear bright colors because its seen as aggressive), my clothing choices are greatly expanded over that of my mother or grandmother. That in and of itself should be celebrated.

I remember the stories my mom told of going to school in the 50s and 60s, being forced to wear skirts/dresses every day unless the school deemed it cold enough to warrant pants. I think she said that ended up being maybe 2 days per year...in snowy Missouri! I think it had to be zero degrees before they could wear pants.

Not to mention the freedom of pants gives you in skipping shaving your legs.

"Furthermore, there are many circumstances out there where women cannot choose NOT TO wear lipstick, or high heels, or even trousers without facing social ostracism."

Good point, Mary Tracy9. Also sometimes a woman's job can be in jeopardy if she doesn't "dress up" a certain way.

A few years ago I worked at a telemarketing job (which made this super creepy, because the customers couldn't even see us) and the female owner of the company MADE us (the females) dress up and wear makeup (the males just wore jeans and tshirts) and she even put a mirror on my desk and made me look in it while I talked on the phone.

She also gave me clothes that she expected me to wear to work.

Obviously I quit for those and other reasons, but my point is that wasn't a "choice" on my part, it was part of my job, which I needed at the time to survive.

Also, related to work:

Remember this?

http://feministing.com/archives/008949.html

The Chair of the Nurses Working Committee said, "We feel like ornaments in the skirts. We don't have freedom of movement and can't bend over to tend to patients. We are made to expose our bodies to do our work."

I totally agree on having more clothing options for men, too, sometimes I just comment on the comments.

When I was in high school a heterosexual male friend of mine got expelled for wearing an ankle legnth skirt of mine over pants. I thought this was ridiculous because I could even show the school administration yearbook pictures of not just football players, but the male principal dressed up in drag with mini skirts with no pants underneath as a "joke."

As a long time reader, it's exciting to finally see something that I have enough knowledge to comment on.

Pants for women actually first became "fashionable" in the late 1920's (this is also the time that women stopped wearing corsets and won the vote). There popularity grew during the 1930's and 1940's, as you correctly stated due to to women's involvement in the war effort. The 1950's saw pants taking a backseat in the fashion world with the popular "new look" that stressed form fitting "feminine" dresses; however the previous decades let women know just how fabulous pants where and the "new look" didn't stick

BeccaTheCyborg: Thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

I would wear a kilt every day if I was Scottish, but it feels like cultural appropriation otherwise.

I have been told by friends that I look rather good in a dress, though, and advised that perhaps I should wear them more often. (I do not believe that they were joking.)

Good post, and I agree.

I do think that, to a large degree, men and women take cues from the other about many things. But I think with women's fashion, it's a hell of a lot more complicated because you all seem to dress more for each other, and us clueless Y chromosome-types usually don't notice all that much what you're wearing. Men, on the other hand, are very much influenced by what women tell us is acceptable in fashion -- most of you probably know that you have a big influence on what your boyfriends or husbands wear (and I am sure the reverse generally isn't true). Unfortunately, most men AND women (not the people reading this) are very content to keep us guys in our little contrained gender-strereotyped box. I just don't think many men are going to alter our macho-wear until we are hit over the head that this is something women want us to do.

Men in kilts and full-length skirts... so much yum. My OH seriously rocks the man-corset, long skirt and high heels look.

I've really never quite got the whole thing about gendered clothing. I mean, I can guess why and how it came about, but considering that tights, and lace ruffles were seen as acceptable men's clothing, and before that robes, and so on, why did it change?

Men should be allowed the full range of clothing available for women.

But only once they start making trousers for women with POCKETS THAT ACTUALLY WORK, DAMNIT!

I know a guy who wears kilts a lot. Not red plaid kilts either, they are khaki. I yell at people to make fun of him. I tell them "it's not your fucking body!"

When I was little, I went through a period where I refused to wear pants. I thought girls were supposed to wear skirts all the time. I grew out of it eventually. The funny thing is that, even though I thought I was supposed to wear skirts all the time, I still jumped in and played Ninja Turtles with all my guy friends.

Chefmat,
I love kilts. I'm not celtic, but love it. I have a bit of fetish for men who wear them.

Anyone else think the woman in the photo is HOT!She steals the photo!

I clicked on one of the links and noticed a commenst page filled with sexist radical christian banter - like most comments pages unfortunetly! One responder remarks how she refused to wear pants and another woman did and how eventually she made 30% more than the other woman because God rewarded her for being obedient to the Bible. Anyone hear an echo...NUT!!

Well, I love men's clothing, as a man -- but do enjoy me my pink shirts. While I have no desire for a kilt, it took me a long time to get comfortable accessorizing -- bracelets, rings, bags, necklaces. Jewelry for men need not inspire shudders for fear of gold chains and shirts open to the navel, but we need to do more to celebrate our options.

Yay BeccaTheCyborg! I have not worn pants for the past three years either. I thought I was the only one! What I love about dresses is the lack of constriction over my midsection. Dresses make me feel great about my curvy body!
I do own one pair of stretchy black yoga pants that I just bought for slow jogging and the like, in the spirit of full disclosure.
I wish all women and men could choose exactly what they feel most comfortable wearing. Dress codes and the exclusionary "professional" ideal and such downers.

BeccaTheCyborg -

I'm a femme who loves wearing skirts too (and dresses and lipstick, etc)

But I don't feel patronized by other feminists who critique these choices. I don't see the need to be defensive. My "choices" are heavily and directly influenced by social context (in this case, patriarchy). To insist otherwise would be naive.

trousers are indeed great, even when as a kid youre shuffled over to the husky section to get them, who came up with that name?

Women in the working world do have a lot more choices but also a lot more requirements, the have to/get to thing. Someone commented on women not being allowed to wear bright colors, well dang, ever seen professional mens clothing? Its almost like old ford model t's, any color you like as long as its black, sure sometimes we get someone who wants to break the mold and wear a blue or gasp a pink, oh i mean salmon, colored shirt but thats about it, amazing how much time you can put into picking a tie though. It seems to me a lot of the men I know put tons of thought into what they wear but it has more to do with material, kinds of cut, mixing of textures than very different styles of shirts or pants. Finally on male workclothes, I always think of the simpson episode where homers white shirts get turned pink, good times.

Nice to see other femmes here. :) I've got a pair of black yoga pants too, just for the rare occasion I'm playing some kind of sport or under my skirts when it's cold.

AlicePaul, I'm ore than aware of the social contexts for a lot of feminine clothing. But here's the thing: I wear skirts partly as a reaction to the clothing restrictions I had during a sexually unhealthy relationship. I don't wear pants because I find myself uncomfortable in them. So when some well-intentioned person begins telling me why I wear/don't wear something, or say that it's because I want to be an ornament or some such bullshit, I get a bit tetchy. Broad context is vital, but perhaps try to see the forest for the trees?

Yay BeccaTheCyborg! I have not worn pants for the past three years either. I thought I was the only one! What I love about dresses is the lack of constriction over my midsection. Dresses make me feel great about my curvy body!
I do own one pair of stretchy black yoga pants that I just bought for slow jogging and the like, in the spirit of full disclosure.
I wish all women and men could choose exactly what they feel most comfortable wearing. Dress codes and the exclusionary "professional" ideal and such downers.

Yay BeccaTheCyborg! I have not worn pants for the past three years either. I thought I was the only one! What I love about dresses is the lack of constriction over my midsection. Dresses make me feel great about my curvy body!
I do own one pair of stretchy black yoga pants that I just bought for slow jogging and the like, in the spirit of full disclosure.
I wish all women and men could choose exactly what they feel most comfortable wearing. Dress codes and the exclusionary "professional" ideal and such downers.

Nice to see other femmes here. :) I've got a pair of black yoga pants too, just for the rare occasion I'm playing some kind of sport or under my skirts when it's cold.

AlicePaul, I'm ore than aware of the social contexts for a lot of feminine clothing. But here's the thing: I wear skirts partly as a reaction to the clothing restrictions I had during a sexually unhealthy relationship. I don't wear pants because I find myself uncomfortable in them. So when some well-intentioned person begins telling me why I wear/don't wear something, or say that it's because I want to be an ornament or some such bullshit, I get a bit tetchy. Broad context is vital, but perhaps try to see the forest for the trees?

Yay BeccaTheCyborg! I have not worn pants for the past three years either. I thought I was the only one! What I love about dresses is the lack of constriction over my midsection. Dresses make me feel great about my curvy body!
I do own one pair of stretchy black yoga pants that I just bought for slow jogging and the like, in the spirit of full disclosure.
I wish all women and men could choose exactly what they feel most comfortable wearing. Dress codes and the exclusionary "professional" ideal and such downers.

I know I'm glad to be able to wear pants; I can't stand skirts.

I'm also fine with men wearing whatever they want so long as the bits that are required to be covered (by law and custom and such in their particular area) actually are covered. Kilts are nice, too. Mm, kilts.

I must disagree with noname. What is "appropriate to wear" changes with time and enculturation--great that this person has almost always known, but culture itself is not a static thing, it is dynamic and any description of it is no more than a photograph at that moment.

Yay BeccaTheCyborg! I have not worn pants for the past three years either. I thought I was the only one! What I love about dresses is the lack of constriction over my midsection. Dresses make me feel great about my curvy body!
I do own one pair of stretchy black yoga pants that I just bought for slow jogging and the like, in the spirit of full disclosure.
I wish all women and men could choose exactly what they feel most comfortable wearing. Dress codes and the exclusionary "professional" ideal and such downers.

Dudette Becca,
I'm the one being condescending? Hey, how about "it's because I want to be an ornament or some such bullshit, I get a bit tetchy. Broad context is vital, but perhaps try to see the forest for the trees?".

This is definitely a 'broader context' discussion - I'm not aware (and neither should I have to be) of your personal historical relationship dynamics. The very next post on this blog is about how a lot of fashion & clothes-related conversation objectifies women. Of course it does, since that is the entire purpose of fashion/clothes/beauty product. Objectification sells! We may object to it, scream, yell, make it socially unacceptable, and they will always find insidious ways of putting it back in – and no, not because ‘they’, the advertisers/fashion industry is full of monsters, but only because they’re doing their job well.

You may still choose to use and participate in the industry, but don’t assume that what you are doing is independent of social context or meaning or implication. Like Linda Hirshman’s argument about mothers who stay home affecting all of women in their opportunities at work, your choice of make-up definitely affects the whole industry and all of womankind, and the future choices of baby girls today.

Which does not mean that you need to stop having fun. Hey, I definitely do – I’m wearing a pair of purple pumps right now that I’m very excited about and I actually saved up for, and on my Google reader I have four fashion blogs – none of which I’m ready to give up. But don’t be naïve your actions being solely a product of your own independent decisions & desires, because they’re not.

MLEmac - i went through a similar phase. except i didn't really think that little girls were "supposed" to wear skirts or anything, i just thought they were prettier and more fun to twirl around in so i eschewed pants for about a year.

chevalier - thanks for clarifying and of course you are right that we all make decisions against a backdrop of the patriarchy and all that jazz. however, i don't think that it's fair to distill a given woman's reasons for wearing makeup or heels or skirts and not factor in her innate tastes and personality. i am a clothes whore. i have always loved fashion and makeup and aesthetics. yes, i'm a girl and i am conditioned to think that these things are important, but i really thing that my eye for apparel is a part of ME, independent of that. if i were a man, i might not spend as much time or energy or money on such things, but i feel that i would still be interested in fashion and enjoy picking out a great outfit, much like plenty of men i know.

MLEmac - i went through a similar phase. except i didn't really think that little girls were "supposed" to wear skirts or anything, i just thought they were prettier and more fun to twirl around in so i eschewed pants for about a year.

chevalier - thanks for clarifying and of course you are right that we all make decisions against a backdrop of the patriarchy and all that jazz. however, i don't think that it's fair to distill a given woman's reasons for wearing makeup or heels or skirts and not factor in her innate tastes and personality. i am a clothes whore. i have always loved fashion and makeup and aesthetics. yes, i'm a girl and i am conditioned to think that these things are important, but i really thing that my eye for apparel is a part of ME, independent of that. if i were a man, i might not spend as much time or energy or money on such things, but i feel that i would still be interested in fashion and enjoy picking out a great outfit, much like plenty of men i know.

Marce - Men's fashion in magazines is dynamic. Real world, mainstream men’s fashion, particularly office wear, is pretty consistent unless you start going back decades. Remember, I am talking about neutral clothing, not statement fashion.

marmanel, I know what you mean and used to feel the same way, but skirts are just so comfortable. I used to conform to gendered dress less than I do now and wearing a skirt when it is hot outside is very comfortable. Unfortunately when I moved to a much more conservative city, became more conservative in my dress as well. Anyway, I want a utilikilt, I just don't want to have to pay $200 for one. I'm too cheap to pay that much for clothing that isn't shoes or a coat.

But I don't feel patronized by other feminists who critique these choices. I don't see the need to be defensive. My "choices" are heavily and directly influenced by social context (in this case, patriarchy). To insist otherwise would be naive.

As another femme who practically lives in skirts etc. during the warmer months (mostly because I'm thoroughly sick of trousers by the end of winter, having worn them constantly), I have to agree.

To me, what is central is to question those choices that we make, especially those that are in consonance with patriarchal values, in order to determine whether, and to what extent, they are choices at all. I think, really, that one of the greatest contributions feminism has made is the epistemological framework that allows us to examine these and other things critically.

OK - I need to share this blog entry with you - it's written by a runner (who is male), and this is a product review. In this case, the product is a running skirt:

http://completerunning.com/running-blog-mark/index.php/archives/2006/05/09/a-manly-mans-review-of-his-pink-running-skirt/

(I purchased 2 running skirts based on this review, because he talked about performance and not how pretty it looked. After 6 miles, I don't care about pretty.)

It's so hard to say where unadulterated personal choice begins and where patriarchal expectations end. Even for women who flat-out refuse to wear skirts and buy all their clothes in the men's section, how much of that decision is personal, and now much is a stance against patriarchy? And is it personal choice if you feel you must do so as a feminist, or what have you?

Ron: yeah, but I think I would run a non-trivial risk of losing my job if I turned up for work in a dress, unfortunately. I can't even walk around barefoot or in shorts in the current office I work in (unlike in my previous job), let alone subvert gender norms. I am never quite as happy with shoes on. :(

That said, I did wear a dress on the Halloween parade; I got some stones thrown at me and some kids ran up and said "Are you gay?" but overall it was pretty awesome.

Lotus: It's so hard to say where unadulterated personal choice begins and where patriarchal expectations end. Even for women who flat-out refuse to wear skirts and buy all their clothes in the men's section, how much of that decision is personal, and now much is a stance against patriarchy? And is it personal choice if you feel you must do so as a feminist, or what have you?

WORD. When I was in high school I REFUSED to wear skirts/dresses or anything close to the color pink. The most feminine thing I wore were platform shoes/high heeled boots (but with really thick heels, so there was nothing feminine about them) because I was NOT going to capitulate to the patriarchy's notions of what being a woman meant. Until I realized that by avoiding what the patriarchy prescribed as feminine I was still letting "the man" dictate how I dressed. So I started incorporating skirts and color into my wardrobe (who knew that hot pink was actually a really good color on me?!) and have been much happier about my clothing choices since then, because I have so much MORE CHOICE now. Are those choices made completely independent of any patriarchal overtones? Of course not, but I think very few choices in this society are completely a-political on every level.

Carrie :

You do not ever have to shave your legs. You do not have to. You do not have to. You do not have to.

Today I'm wearings jeans with unshaven legs, on Saturday I'm going out in a short party dress with unshaven legs. I haven't shaved my legs in 6 years. You do not have to shave your legs.

Sadly, not all women can wear pants these days. There are still employers who require skirts and hose for women, and I believe only CA makes that illegal. Can someone correct me or support me on that?

I have a friend in Oklahoma whose employer recently pushed a new dress code on them. It's absolutely absurd, banning pant suits, defining which colors are appropriate (dark for men, light for women), requiring skirts and hose for all women. I would be working on my resume if I were in her position. Or I would wait to be fired for wearing pants. I just don't wear skirts.

When I was in high school I REFUSED to wear skirts/dresses or anything close to the color pink. The most feminine thing I wore were platform shoes/high heeled boots (but with really thick heels, so there was nothing feminine about them) because I was NOT going to capitulate to the patriarchy's notions of what being a woman meant. Until I realized that by avoiding what the patriarchy prescribed as feminine I was still letting "the man" dictate how I dressed.

My own experience was actually quite similar, though it took place in my early twenties rather than in my teens.

For a very long time, I was in a state of constant internal conflict because I saw my tastes (which include, but are not limited to, a number of things that would be considered conventionally feminine) with my (feminist and anarchocommunist) views. It appeared to me that they were necessarily in conflict, and so I generally did evertyhing I could to suppress those tastes, and felt rather guilty any time I indulged them.

After years of allowing my energy to be consumed by this conflict, I came to two conclusions. First, that defining oneself solely by opposition to something was no more autonomous than defining oneself by conformity to the same thing; either way, that thing (whatever it is) is at the centre of your self definition. Second, that, by indulging my more femme tastes, I was actually confounding more stereotypes (one of my main purposes in suppressing) than I was by suppressing them.

When I was in high school I REFUSED to wear skirts/dresses or anything close to the color pink. The most feminine thing I wore were platform shoes/high heeled boots (but with really thick heels, so there was nothing feminine about them) because I was NOT going to capitulate to the patriarchy's notions of what being a woman meant. Until I realized that by avoiding what the patriarchy prescribed as feminine I was still letting "the man" dictate how I dressed.

My own experience was actually quite similar, though it took place in my early twenties rather than in my teens.

For a very long time, I was in a state of constant internal conflict because I saw my tastes (which include, but are not limited to, a number of things that would be considered conventionally feminine) with my (feminist and anarchocommunist) views. It appeared to me that they were necessarily in conflict, and so I generally did evertyhing I could to suppress those tastes, and felt rather guilty any time I indulged them.

After years of allowing my energy to be consumed by this conflict, I came to two conclusions. First, that defining oneself solely by opposition to something was no more autonomous than defining oneself by conformity to the same thing; either way, that thing (whatever it is) is at the centre of your self definition. Second, that, by indulging my more femme tastes, I was actually confounding more stereotypes (one of my main purposes in suppressing) than I was by suppressing them.

"It blows my frickin’ mind that there was a time when women like me—smart, ambitious, creative—

were stuck wearing skirts seven days a week."

I heard that in at least one of the public schools in Boston, girls who were like me - whose

thick leg hair grows back long before the razor burn heals and shaving is safe again - can get

suspended for going to school in trousers once and expelled for going to school in trousers

twice.

"Women first started wearing pants during World

War II when they also filled in on jobs traditionally held by men."

Women started wearing salwar kameez, which includes trousers, long before WWII, right?

"I would wear a kilt every day if I was Scottish, but it feels like cultural appropriation otherwise."

http://www.utilikilts.com/

"The very next post on this blog is about how a lot of fashion & clothes-related conversation objectifies women. Of course it does, since that is the entire purpose of fashion/clothes/beauty product."

You forgot the shelter function of clothes - thick and insulated layers sheltering the body from cold, loose and reflective layers sheltering the body from UV radiation, etc.

Sadly, not all women can wear pants these days. There are still employers who require skirts and hose for women, and I believe only CA makes that illegal. Can someone correct me or support me on that?

Well, in the Price-Waterhouse case back in the 1980s, the Supreme Court held that requiring stereotypical gendered behaviour and dress from employees constituted a form of actionable sex discrimination under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act; however, the Circuit Courts have been somewhat wavering in their acceptance of that theory.

In the recent Harrah's case, a woman brought a Title VII action against her employer's dress code, which mandated makeup (foundation, powder, and mascara) in addition to nailpolish for female employees, and the Ninth Circuit actually held that the policy was not discriminatory, because it burdened both men and women. Judge Pregerson's dissent, which pointed out exactly how bullshit that idea was, is well worth reading.

Eek, sorry about the word wrap problem!

Moriath, I never consciously avoided skits and dresses, but I did notice that at the end of high school, other than my uniform skirt, I hadn't warn a skirt more than 10 times in four years! I also swore off pink; I associated it with the things I hated most about so-called "girly girls" (this was before I realized I was a feminist, and didn't hate pink or the people who wore it, I hated the assumptions about women and pink), but also, as someone with both fair and olive skin, most pinks look awful on me. I now own quite a bit of salmon pink stuff, b/c it makes my skin color glow.

So what you're saying, Chevalier, is that you'll instead blissfully ignore any statistical outliers, other variables at work, or anything else that might put a teensy dent in your declaration of Why Strangers Do Things. Even when clarified as to why your proclamation might not be the accurate across the board. Gotcha. Simply put, you seem rather blinded by the Fundamental Attribution Error.

And as I did mentioned, I'm aware of the broader social context in which I am participating. I just happen to also be capable of examining narrower contexts. The personal may be political, but that doesn't erase that whole "personal" part of it.

And where I am, I am an anomaly. Pants are the absolute norm in every job I've had. Makeup is not the default. And I've worked in every field from a jeweler's apprentice, to body art, to provincial government. Maybe it's a regional thing, but I doubt I'm creating a generation of cruelly indoctrinated fembots just by daring to dress in a manner in which I am comfortable.

Thank God for pants, because those women's bikes with the low top bar always seemed a little overwrought; because sitting Indian-style -- or with one ankle on the opposite knee, or with one foot on the chair and that same knee in the air -- is way more comfortable than sitting with one knee over the other; because rushing to hold down a skirt when the subway passes underfoot usually isn't nearly as graceful as it was for Marilyn; because they're such economical use of fabric; because of long johns, tights under them, and knee socks; because of cowboy boots and because of sneakers; because they don't have to be smoothed when I sit down on the train to prevent that cold-plastic-on-thighs feeling; because sliding my hand halfway under the waistband just isn't as satisfying with a skirt.

The only drawbacks, as far as I'm concerned: In pants, it's harder to put my boyfriend's hand on my crotch when I'm driving and he's sitting shotgun, the pants take forever to dry after being washed, and it's harder to piss outside when I'm dealing with jeans around my ankles.

As someone who was obliged by strict Christian upbringing to wear skirts very nearly all the time until I was, oh, 11 or 12 years old (and this was in the late '80s, early '90s!), I am definitely overjoyed to have the option to wear pants.
I don't hate skirts but they are most definitely not appropriate attire for some things.
Although I'll second what someone else up there said about finding women's pants with usable pockets!

"I have a friend in Oklahoma whose employer recently pushed a new dress code on them. It's absolutely absurd, banning pant suits, defining which colors are appropriate (dark for men, light for women), requiring skirts and hose for all women. I would be working on my resume if I were in her position. Or I would wait to be fired for wearing pants. I just don't wear skirts"

That should be illegal. She should take him to court. That reminds me of the dress code being imposed on the Spanish medical faculty that was recently featured on feministing.

Check out this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html

Some of the comments are idiotic and now it's impossible to leave another comment (instead I got asked "In order to proceed please type the characters you see in the picture below." over and over).

I did the "girls wear pink and skirts" thing when I was little too, for a very long time. For the last couple years, I've been very much a tomboy, and getting less feminine the whole time. I've attributed it to trying to fit into the geek world better. Girly girls don't fit into engineering schools. Now I'm trying to undo that a bit and find a way to balance the feeling that girliness will automatically make me lose geek-cred or respect with the feeling that flowy skirts are fun to twirl in.

I love the power of choice, I can't even imagine being mandated to wear a skirt/dress everyday! I'm more of a fan of dresses myself though - Jeans are a bit constricting and all my dresses are really comfy cotton ones, and it's great just to throw them on and leave. I actually am out of place wearing dresses, girls at my school only wear pants and shorts. I really do think that men should be able to wear whatever it is that they want to, but I imagine it'll take a long time for it not be viewed as "queer" and that such sort.