Do they think it's justified since they've called it "informal or slang?" Frankly a lot of the others seem sort of offensive, especially since they're not listed as informal or slang. For example, if someone called me a "cupcake" or, god forbid, a "pinup" in seriousness, I'd be pretty fucking pissed.

Um...excuse me?
What really freaks me out is that "female" and "lady" are the only entries given. I can't imagine trying to write a paper and needing a synonym for weaker...as is in "x has a weaker argument than y" and instead "x has a more female argument than y." This is ridiculous. I was also very disturbed by the wonderful synonyms for female and lady--hussy, squaw, and wench being my favorites. Nice.

It's an anachronistic term that was in popular usage in the Victorian age, and before. I don't know how early it showed up.

I don't think the thesaurus people were trying to be assholes, just trying to include all terms.

Personally, I only refer to myself as the weaker sex after I've benched more than my husband, or knocked the spotter during my heavy bag workout on his ass by hitting the bag, but that's just me.

Stupid thesaurus. I have never used that website, and I don't know if I ever will now that it's lack of integrity has been pointed out (I may reconsider if it turns out to have been hacked...but only then).

This has GOT to be a joke. Or a hack job.

When I want a new word to replace weaker, I don't need "female" and I'm pretty sure other people dont' either.

Common usage.

I think it's worth pointing out that it is not actually saying "female" or "lady" are synonyms for "weaker", just that it found a sub-string match on weaker on one of the synonyms it had listed in the body synonyms. As an objective list of terms used historically and, yes, sometimes presently, as synonyms for women, "weaker sex" is one that got/gets used, which is terrible.

The thesaurus is a dumb search, it just pulls a query back on a sub-string match. It's a mechanical process, one that's accessing a data repository that probably got filled by a mechanical process from a well of terms that was on hand a good long time ago.

Wait. I was thinking of "the fairer sex".

Those results come up because the search is for "weaker" as opposed to the most basic form, "weak." So it turns up the only entries that contain the word "weaker," and both use it in the context of "weaker sex" -- i.e., women. If you want synonyms for "weak," you have to actually look up "weak," not a derivative. A search for "weak" turns up the real synonyms.

If you want to object to the fact that "weaker sex" is used as a synonym for "women" at all, then I'm right there with you, but the site isn't doing anything wrong.

It comes up because "weaker sex" is listed as a synonym. When you search "weak", no words for female come up. I'd equally expect "lesser" to bring up "lesser sex", but for some reason it doesn't.

Oh well. It's archaic in usage. But I agree with the first post... the whole of reference.com could do a much better job of indicating what's slang, informal, or vulgar, dual language (EN-ES, EN-FR, etc.) dictionaries do.

Wow. I missed totally missedn the boat on this one. I thought the search was for "female". The search was for "weaker" and "female" came up #1? That's pretty bad.

I wrote them a little feedback on their "contact us" form. It will probably get no response, but I did accuse the web site of hate speech, joke or not.

It doesn't matter how this happened, or what part of "weaker" or "weaker sex" this is in reference to, it's sexist and derogatory.

I can't imagine trying to write a paper and needing a synonym for weaker

You wouldn't. You'd look up a synonym for weak, and then use the comparative form of that adjective. Look up weaker in the dictionary and it'll point you to weak.

I wrote them a little feedback on their "contact us" form. It will probably get no response, but I did accuse the web site of hate speech, joke or not.

It doesn't matter how this happened, or what part of "weaker" or "weaker sex" this is in reference to, it's sexist and derogatory.

May very well be a hacker, check out the synonyms for feminist. http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/feminist

Main Entry: misogynist
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: woman-hater
Synonyms: anti-feminist, male chauvinist, misanthrope, sexist
Notes: a misandrist hates persons of the male sex, a misogynist hates persons of the female sex, and a misanthrope is a hater of mankind

And the difference when you look up "man" and "woman:"

Man: Homo sapiens, being, body, character, creature, earthling, fellow creature, flesh, folk, human, human being, humanity, humankind, individual, mankind, mortal, mortality, person, personage, populace, somebody, soul, species

Woman: Mrs., babe, bird, bride, broad, chick, chicken, companion, dame, debutante, doll, gal, gentlewoman, girl, girlfriend, inamorata, kitten, lady, lass, love, lover, maid, maiden, mama, mate, matron, miss, mistress, moll, nymph, old lady, paramour, partner, pigeon, rib, she, skirt, spinster, spouse, squaw, sweetheart, tomato, tootsie, virgin, wife

These are the MAIN ENTRIES, people. I see what Misspelled is saying, but I believe there is something screwy going on with this reference site.

Well regardless of the "weaker" connection, I was pretty disturbed overall by the words associated with "woman." Did they have to put every possible slang word there, and where do they draw the line? (And who actually uses 'rib'?)

So of course to get a fair picture I searched for "Man", and the first entry is as you would expect (human being, homo sapien, character, person, earthling, human, individual, person, somebody, soul, etc.).

The next entry also has slang words and some are pejorative but most have dignity to spare when contrasted with the female equivolent (bloke, chap, dude, fellow, lord, master...)

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/man

I also simply object to "man" and "woman" being listed as antonyms. Maybe I'm trying to politicize something that doesn't need it, but it just doesn't seem like they're opposites -- they are counterparts of the same species, after all. When you study antonyms for the GRE or whatever, your first learn that antonyms must have a positive or negative charge; if they are neutral, they can have no opposite. Since it's possible for a word to have no antonym, I would think "man" and "woman" would be very good candidates for that status -- using contrast to define each other is exactly what feminism objects.

This is why I go to a real-life dictionary. Check out what Merriam-Webster has for "weaker" - http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/weaker

outcrazyophelia: You seem very quick to attribute patriarchal reference works to the mere compromise of a server. Roget's is an old white book written by old white men, and has a vast amount of accumulated misogyny stored away.

Oh, this is a hoot.

Main Entry: masculine
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: manlike
Synonyms: adult...bold, brave...courageous... honorable...resolute...robust... well-built
Antonyms: feminine

Main Entry: feminine
Part of Speech: noun/adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms:...effete, fertile...

Marnnel,
Since the words are antonyms, it looks like an error to me.
The result for feminism is actually correct (equal rights, feminism, rights of women, sisterhood, womanism, women's lib, women's liberation movement, women's movement, women's rights movement, women's studies, women's suffrage). I would think that if it were intentional, the results for feminism would direct to misogyny as well.

"A search for "weak" turns up the real synonyms."

Yeah but if you go to m-w.com and search the thesaurus for "weaker", it uses its oh-so-advanced search engine and finds the synonyms for weak!

Peripatetic - I see what you are saying, but nowhere does it say "weaker sex"- it all it gives us is "weaker". And weaker by itself does not equate to the slang term "weaker sex". It is wholly inappropriate for "weaker" to give synonyms for the phrase "weaker sex", for obvious reasons.

-Jro- It actually does say weaker sex in the list of synonyms. However, it also says "cupcake", "bitch", "tomato", "ten"...and others. This is a hack job.

report their error/hack here: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/forms/webmaster.html?Error

report their error/hack here: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/forms/webmaster.html?Error

outcrazyophelia: Sorry, I did make what I hoped was a careful and thought-out comment, but because I took the trouble to include some links to the sources I cited, the message went into moderation.

The basic point I was trying to make, though, is that it's not surprising that in the big soup of loosely connected words that's behind that front end, "the weaker sex" maps to "women". Google Books has 650 examples of this usage before 1850; the term actually goes back to St Peter in the Bible (1 Peter 3:7), where he tells husbands to treat their wives with honour, "as the weaker sex". All these usages, from Peter onwards, were pretty blatantly non-feminist, and it's not surprising that a book as much written by DWEMs as Roget's would include them. If you're looking up "feminism" or "feminist", on the other hand, the mere use of the word implies a mindset that the sexes are equal; in addition, the term only dates back a hundred years or so; the word is several decades younger than Roget's itself! Patriarchy is an ingrained concept, sadly.

report their error/hack here: http://dictionary.reference.com/help/forms/webmaster.html?Error

Wait, so now we're accusing *computers* of misogyny? This is completely missing the point. I'm with Misspelled here: the problem isn't a sexist search engine; the problem is the way that people speak and think about gender, and probably also an archaic thesaurus that was compiled by a bunch of unenlightened people.

The search engine was just doing what it always does. Sure, complain about it not being particularly useful, but don't start imagining that it's an intentioned being. It's a thoroughly unproductive approach that ignores the extent to which stereotypes about gender are embedded in the language that we all use.

kissmypineapple: no, really, honestly. The search engine is stupid. A moment's exploration will demonstrate that searching for "ten" shows that the system believes it's a synonym for "beautiful" (as in that awful "she's a perfect ten" song), and "tomato" falls into the category of "fruit with one ovary". Both concepts are clearly connected within the system to female-ness. I am not defending this; it's not only working with bad data, it's a badly-designed system. But if someone had broken in, I can assure you the rogue words you'd be seeing wouldn't be "ten" and "tomato".

I understand the common usage argument. But "cheesecake"!?! I know I'm from the midwest, but that seems like an uncommon usage to me. It seems (if its not a hacker) that they went out of their way to be degrading.

Wow. Absolutely revolting!

Um, Elise...the "computer" didn't put the lists together. People have to add content to these databases. And I think the point IS that this illustrates how language is used against women.

Check out this entry I wrote on the dictionary.com word of the day "viragoes."

http://secondhandsally.blogspot.com/2008/02/to-my-fellow-viragoes_18.html

It used to mean woman warrior and now it means shrew. I don't think people are saying the "computer" is sexist. I think they are saying that our language is sexist.

Wait a second, now we have two Elises?

"The basic point I was trying to make, though, is that it's not surprising that in the big soup of loosely connected words that's behind that front end, 'the weaker sex' maps to "women"."

I don't disagree with you Marnanel. I think I misspoke by calling it a hack. I think it's just the way the system is set up--the search engine isn't very smart and you're right--it probably conflated the "weaker sex" with weaker which produced the result from the search. My point about the feminism entry was that the search engine wasn't very good, so it didn't seem like a determined attempt at misogyny so much as a poorly constructed search engine that is searching through word entries that have sexist leanings embedded within them.

Wait a second, now we have two Elises?

Ok maybe I'm missing it- but where, on the page linked or on the screen shot- is the term "weaker sex" used? I see "weaker" in the search box, all alone and by itself. Thesaurus.com responds with " 2 entries for weaker"- no mention of the phrase "weaker sex". I went to thesaurus.com on my own, type in "weaker" (NOT WEAKER SEX) and get the same results. "Weaker" and "Weaker sex" are NOT the same thing.

Blitzgal -- you're right, my response was a bit harsh and in my hurry to type it out and get back to work I wasn't very clear about my objection to this post and some of the responses.

Plenty of people here *do* understand the issue, but plenty of others (including, I think, Jessica, in her original post) are misunderstanding the issue. The thesaurus isn't returning "female" as a synonym for "weaker." It's digging up the *entry* for "female" because it *contains* the word "weaker," as in "weaker sex." The search engine is dumb, and it's doing the same thing it always does, however ineffectually. The thesaurus, too, is simply providing an example of a term that is sometimes (stupidly) used to refer to women. (Although problems could arise if a non-native speaker thought that the terms were interchangeable!) I don't think thesauri or dictionaries should be expurgated of all offensive terms just because we don't like them, though clarity of definitions should certainly be enforced.

On the other hand, I *do* agree that it's ridiculous that the thesaurus contains so many derogatory "synonyms" for women and none for men. But on a third hand (I've had one installed expressly for this purpose), it's hard to tell if that's because there are so many more derogatory terms for women (and the derogatory terms for men tend to mean stuff like "tough guy" or "Lothario"). Sure, there are terms like "asshole," but "asshole" is never used as a generic term for men whereas "bitch," sadly, is used as a generic term for women (which would make it more appropriate to list as a synonym for "woman" than listing "asshole" as a synonym for "man"). So I'm going to maintain that the problem is primarily the language, and that the thesaurus is relatively faithfully reflecting the way language is used, and that's what's so sad about this whole thing.

I do think the thesaurus (and any thesaurus in general) would benefit from some kind of notation indicating a sort of "directional" synonymy -- e.g., "'cupcake' is sometimes used vulgarly instead of 'female,' but the two are not interchangeable, and you shouldn't randomly replace the word 'female' with 'cupcake' because it comes with a whole bunch of other connotations."

And Elise, yes, apparently there are two Elises! I'll change my screenname or whatever it is, if I can.

The best thing we can do is report it to them at the link posted above and keep the discussion going among the various blogs. Eventually they'll have to acknowledge that something screwy is going on. I kind of feel like there's a hacking issue, not a code glitch. There's intent here. I'm looking to see if I can find a phone number, but so far no luck.

For all the people saying that the search result is just an error, but not some intentional programming issue by some offensive dolt:

The entry is offensive because even if I do buy that "woman" coming up as a synonym for "weaker" is due to the "weaker sex" thing, the other listed synonyms are still offensive. Further, not only are they offensive, but they do not have that nifty asterisk that denotes that it's a "slang term" and thereby alleviates thesaurus.com from its own lack of academic credibility or inappropriateness. Instead, the entries such as "cupcake", "wench" and "siren" are all noted without the asterisk and thus presented as though they are valid and appropriate terms that are to be accepted into our academic vocabularies as appropriate. While they all do have origination points in language, I think that any half-educated person can agree that they are considered colloquialisms that lack any academic integrity.

So are you still so sure that this is just an engine search mistake?

Yes, I am still so sure. There are four distinct options:

1) this is the result of a compromised server; I take this to be very unlikely because people who compromise servers just don't do this sort of thing without announcing themselves.

2) this is the result of a programming issue. It is the result of a programming issue, but only insofar as the programmer who decided that a search on a given word should default to bringing up phrases containing that word was being lazy (since this isn't how language works, and it's much simpler than actually doing any kind of proper natural language processing) rather than malicious.

3) that this is a mistake intentionally and maliciously built into the site by the owners (or programmers) of thesaurus.com in order to poke fun at women; I think this falls foul of Occam's razor, since the simpler case (that words which are substrings of phrases bring up those phrases) covers it adequately. And in fact, you can test for sure by typing, say, "cat" into the site; you'll be given examples such as "dignitary", which turns out to be because "top cat" contains the string "cat";

4) because the dataset comes from Roget's Thesaurus, a 200-year-old book with 200-year-old attitudes.

4 is by far the simplest option. Seriously, on my honour as a fifteen-year veteran of web programming, the absence of an asterisk on "wench" or "siren" is not a programming error. It's an error in the actual thesaurus that the site is displaying.

I know many people have already commented on this, but what's more disturbing than "female" as synonym for "weaker" are all the other terms with demeaning connotations: bitch, hussy, shrew, old bag, hag, kid, etc. "Kid?" What if the entry for African-American listed "boy" as a synonym?

thesaurus.com sucks, it's only useful when I'm trying to remember a word I already know. I love Merriam-Webster, though I still prefer my hard copy :)
Did anyone notice a while back if you searched google for "matriarchy" it would come back with "Did you mean patriarchy?" Yeah....that was lame.

Well, in the interest of bringing actual data into this conversation, I have a copy of the 1998 dead-tree version of Roget's Thesaurus of English Words & Phrases in front of me. Scoot to the back and look up weak— (p1363 for those playing along at home) to find:

weaker sex
womankind 373 n.

Entry 373 (p234) is "Female" and includes:

womankind, second sex, female s., fair s., gentle s., weaker s.; …

So, not only is it fair to say that the website has not been cracked but that the search engine suggesting the entry about woman when doing a search for "weaker" is not in error either.

Also, it should be noted that the idea of a thesaurus is not to provide drop-in alternatives for any word you should choose to look up. If you did that you would think "woman doctor" meant the same thing as "feminist" and "bride".

The synonyms for "black man" include, but aren't limited to: "SOB, bad egg, villain, devil, miscreant".

Yeah.

Here's what I got when I typed in "stronger":

all the more, all the more so, from the stronger, more than ever, still more, with greater reason

and

Definition: improved
Synonyms: convalescent, cured, fitter, fully recovered, healthier, improving, less ill, mending, more healthy, progressing, recovering, stronger, well
Antonyms: ill, more, sicker, unhealthy, worse

So that shoots down the 'oh but if you typed in WEAK instead of WEAKER you'd get synonyms other than "woman" and all the accompanying derogatory terms' argument.

It's the Roget's Thesaurus; it's misogynist and anti-anything-not-Protestant. I have a "Dead tree" version and synonyms for "Devil" include Catholic, Jew, and "Mohammedan".

Now when you type in "weaker" there are NO results...very interesting...

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/weaker

But still we get this gem when you type in "female":
Main Entry: female
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms: changeable, child-bearing, delicate, effeminate, effete, fair, feminine, fertile, gentle, girlish, girly, graceful, ladylike, maidenly, matronly, modest, muliebral, oviparous, petticoat, pistil-bearing, pistillate, pure, refined, reproductive, sensitive, she-stuff, shy, soft, tender, twisty, virgin, vixenish, weak, womanish, womanlike
Antonyms: male, manlike, manly
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

WEAK is a synonym for FEMALE - are fucking kidding me? Not to mention, "virgin", "twisty" and "vixinesh"!
And even more apalling - when you type in "Girl" you get "jail-bait", "wench" and "witch".
Again, are fucking kidding me?

Oh and just to put the topping on the sundae - woman is synonymous with "piece".

Nice.

But still we get this gem when you type in "female":
Main Entry: female
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms: changeable, child-bearing, delicate, effeminate, effete, fair, feminine, fertile, gentle, girlish, girly, graceful, ladylike, maidenly, matronly, modest, muliebral, oviparous, petticoat, pistil-bearing, pistillate, pure, refined, reproductive, sensitive, she-stuff, shy, soft, tender, twisty, virgin, vixenish, weak, womanish, womanlike
Antonyms: male, manlike, manly
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

WEAK is a synonym for FEMALE - are fucking kidding me? Not to mention, "virgin", "twisty" and "vixinesh"!
And even more apalling - when you type in "Girl" you get "jail-bait", "wench" and "witch".
Again, are fucking kidding me?

Oh and just to put the topping on the sundae - woman is synonymous with "piece".

Nice.

But still we get this gem when you type in "female":
Main Entry: female
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms: changeable, child-bearing, delicate, effeminate, effete, fair, feminine, fertile, gentle, girlish, girly, graceful, ladylike, maidenly, matronly, modest, muliebral, oviparous, petticoat, pistil-bearing, pistillate, pure, refined, reproductive, sensitive, she-stuff, shy, soft, tender, twisty, virgin, vixenish, weak, womanish, womanlike
Antonyms: male, manlike, manly
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

WEAK is a synonym for FEMALE - are fucking kidding me? Not to mention, "virgin", "twisty" and "vixinesh"!
And even more apalling - when you type in "Girl" you get "jail-bait", "wench" and "witch".
Again, are fucking kidding me?

Oh and just to put the topping on the sundae - woman is synonymous with "piece".

Nice.

But still we get this gem when you type in "female":
Main Entry: female
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms: changeable, child-bearing, delicate, effeminate, effete, fair, feminine, fertile, gentle, girlish, girly, graceful, ladylike, maidenly, matronly, modest, muliebral, oviparous, petticoat, pistil-bearing, pistillate, pure, refined, reproductive, sensitive, she-stuff, shy, soft, tender, twisty, virgin, vixenish, weak, womanish, womanlike
Antonyms: male, manlike, manly
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

WEAK is a synonym for FEMALE - are fucking kidding me? Not to mention, "virgin", "twisty" and "vixinesh"!
And even more apalling - when you type in "Girl" you get "jail-bait", "wench" and "witch".
Again, are fucking kidding me?

Oh and just to put the topping on the sundae - woman is synonymous with "piece".

Nice.

But still we get this gem when you type in "female":
Main Entry: female
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: womanly
Synonyms: changeable, child-bearing, delicate, effeminate, effete, fair, feminine, fertile, gentle, girlish, girly, graceful, ladylike, maidenly, matronly, modest, muliebral, oviparous, petticoat, pistil-bearing, pistillate, pure, refined, reproductive, sensitive, she-stuff, shy, soft, tender, twisty, virgin, vixenish, weak, womanish, womanlike
Antonyms: male, manlike, manly
Source: Roget's New Millenniumâ„¢ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2008 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.

WEAK is a synonym for FEMALE - are fucking kidding me? Not to mention, "virgin", "twisty" and "vixinesh"!
And even more apalling - when you type in "Girl" you get "jail-bait", "wench" and "witch".
Again, are fucking kidding me?

Oh and just to put the topping on the sundae - woman is synonymous with "piece".

Nice.

sorry about the multiple postings...i am shit for patience - but one more thing - isn't it funny that when you type in female you get ads for:
Girls In Panties
Top 5 Websites For Girls In Panties
www.EZ-First.comHow to Lose Stomach Fat ?
I Fought To Lose Fat, with These 10 Rules I Lost 9 lbs every 11 Days.
www.FatLoss4Idiots.com

And when you type in "men" you get these ads:
Casual Male XL ®
Official Site. Free ground shipping on orders of $150+ with code FSH.
www.CasualMale.comWaxing Manly
Find local spas and beauty therapists. Just Go Yellow!
yellow.co.nz

This is bullshit.

OK - one more thing, I swear and then I am done for the night :-)
Did you know that "rape" is synonymous with "seduction"? In case you were confused - they mean the same thing! According to thesaurus.com.
OK - now thouroughly pissed and put out - going to bed - let me know what ya'll think.

You know what else is kind of interesting? When you do a thesaurus search for "bachelor," one of the synonyms listed is "misogynist." Sad. If a hacker is responsible for the ridiculous synonyms for "woman" and "feminist," then he forgot about "feminism" because it turns up with reasonable synonyms like "women's rights," "womanism," "women's liberation movement," etc.

You know what else is kind of interesting? When you do a thesaurus search for "bachelor," one of the synonyms listed is "misogynist." Sad. However, If a hacker is responsible for the ridiculous synonyms for "woman" and "feminist," then he forgot about "feminism" because it turns up with reasonable synonyms like "women's rights," "womanism," "women's liberation movement," etc.

You know what else is kind of interesting? When you do a thesaurus search for "bachelor," one of the synonyms listed is "misogynist." Sad. However, If a hacker is responsible for the ridiculous synonyms for "woman" and "feminist," then he forgot about "feminism" because it turns up with reasonable synonyms like "women's rights," "womanism," "women's liberation movement," etc.

Aack, sorry, I didn't mean to post that last comment 3 times. Anyway, just one more thing that's interesting if you play around with the thesaurus searches. If you look up "girl," you'll get "woman" as a synonym. But if you look "boy," you'll get "man" as an antonym. So, according to Roget's, boys get to go grow up to be men, but women will always be girls.

Christine is my mom.

My mom is awesome.

Lexico, the company that owns Roget, has posted on their blog about the issue. It's kind of a bullshit response.

http://www.lexico.com/blog/index.php

I don't find that to be a weak response at all. In fact, I am almost as impressed by their response as I am with those of you who contacted them.

Chalk yourselves up another little victory, feminists. Well done!

I think that there is response is good for that particular word, but what about all the other words that are "synonomous" with "woman" and "female" - and again, the fact that "seduction" is listed as a synomym for "rape" really makes my skin crawl.

those "Synonyms"for weaker are gone...but 'feminist' still has some disturbing entries.