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It looks like Eliot Spitzer, governor of New York, is going to resign live in a few minutes. Get the skivvy on his sex scandal from Ann a couple of days ago.
This news has made me think a lot about the ugly intersection of politics and sex in this country. I was just about Monica Lewinsky's age when that whole ridiculous and terrible scandal broke...and broke...and broke...and got done broken. I think it had a huge effect on my view of politicians--namely that they tend towards corruption despite the shiny, professional surface. It also confirmed for that it is difficult to be a young woman in any political setting and be taken seriously and not seen as a sex object, a shocking reality given that it is frickin' 2008.
Would we all be better off with a woman in office, in part, because she would be less likely to get involved in these kinds of scandals?
It's not that I'm horrified by infidelity (come on people, it's omnipresent) or think prostitution is morally reprehensible. It's that I want political leaders who are whole, authentic, honest human beings. It's that I am depressed at how much precious time, energy, money, and airtime this scandal is going to take away from much more important considerations--the failing economy, Iraq's fifth anniversary, the situation in Sudan etc. Spitzer's kinky sexual desires are crowding out far more important public concerns. And they will for days to come regardless of what he says in a few minutes.
And FYI, the Spitzers have three teenage daughters. How they heck are they processing all of this?
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Comments
Why would we necessarily assume a woman would be less likely to get involved in one of these scandals? Russia's Catherine the Great was a woman who loved power and also had a voracious sexual appetite. This sort of assumption/critique just lends itself to the old stereotype of women as more frigid and less sexually active. While we may use this scandal to decry legal treatment of prostitution in the US, or exploitation of women, or the intersection of sex and power, let's not use it to essentialize either gender.
I don't know that having a woman in office would decrease the likelihood of scandal. Though I think having Hillary in office would. Since she's been there, she would be smart enough not to get involved in something like that. She has firsthand experience.
I maintain that if prostitution were legal, it could be regulated and wouldn't be as dangerous a profession. I'm not against the concept of paying for sex, just the idea that it's a dangerous line of work. If it were government regulated, the women could have health care, gyno exams, birth control access, etc.
I agree with Liza, Hilary is unlikely to screw up that way--not just experience, but every rightwinger in the country will be watching for her to do something like that.
Generally, I agree with the posters: Given the perks and alpha status that come with political power, women are going to get plenty of offers and I doubt they're more immune than the guys. In my experience, women politicians are pretty much like the men in the game, for better or worse.
I agree with you in that this sort of scandal shouldn't be given so much more attention than the scandals which actually affect the way the country is governed and which negatively impact Americans...
However, I do think this scandal is significant and that he did need to resign (and I am a former Spitzer campaign volunteer). I am horrified by infidelity (just because it's omnipresent, doesn't make it okay), though I don't think that's enough to disqualify a person for public office. The real issue is that he broke the law, a law which he himself had enforced on multiple occasions. Add in the fact that I think that renting a woman's body is morally reprehensible and shows a complete lack of respect for women as subjective human beings, and I think it's absolutely a big deal for an elected official.
The reason I think he should resign is that he made so much political capital out of other people breaking this law, and was caught breaking it himself. I don't care either that he was breaking a law which I believe causes more harm than good, or that he was supposedly cheating on his wife-- which we don't even *know*! Has anyone even considered whether his wife was okay with it, that maybe whatever was unusual enough to cost him $5,000 was something he liked, she didn't, and she didn't mind if he got elsewhere? We don't know anything about this, and all this bullshit about his being unfit to govern because he was unfaithful is enforcing a whole lot of norms about monogamy. Has anyone even asked his wife about her opinion, or are we just assuming?
To clarify, I would care if he was cheating on his wife, in that it would be immoral and I would care if anyone was (although I don't think that personal immorality in a field unrelated to their work necessarily makes a person unfit to do that work). However, we don't know that this was done without her consent, and now that they're in the spotlight, we can't really know any more anyway, so it's not really something I want to assume.
High level politicians will always be embroiled in scandal because high political positions have corrupt gatekeepers, and a deal must be made with the devil to get there. Whether it's sex or bribes or whatever doesn't really change that.
Anyone one else reading about the City of Detroits mayor... similar stories... but Kwame is holding tight to his plush mayor ways of life wile he bled a city that had alreay bled anough...check it out...
I think it is morally reprehensible to cheat on one's spouse. Period. Does it disqualify someone to be a leader? I think it calls that person's character and decision-making skills into question. But the thing with Spitzer is that this wasn't a one time thing. It wasn't like he had a fling with an old flame, or got caught up in an office flirtation. He'd been visiting prostitutes for YEARS. That sort of repeated lying, deceit and disregard for one's word is disgusting and I don't want someone like that in office.
As far as Hillary goes - No, I don't think she'd get caught up in a sex scandal or something, but I could see her getting caught up in some other sort of scandal. Like bribery, political favors, kickbacks, etc. I don't think she's above the rest of Washington politics in those regards.
marnanel: if you watch the video of his resignation, I'm going to go ahead and assume from Silda's expression that she doesn't approve.
And in addition, I don't care if he had her permission. Prostitution is illegal. I like smoking pot but I don't BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL.
If he was that hard up for kinky sex, he could have joined a swingers society, taken out a personal ad, something. But we all know this isn't about kinky sex that his wife wouldn't give a try. This is about him lording his power and money over another person.
I don't think men of his position purchase women because they "need" to, they purchase women because they CAN.
whether or not something is illegal has very little to do with what is morally correct. here's a shortlist of things that have been illegal in the US at one time or another: gay sex, cohabitation, marrying outside your race, prescribing contraception to unmarried people, abortion. anonymous: would you have abstained from any of these things, had you lived in a time when they were illegal? it's a dangerous thing to trust politicians to guide your moral compass.
spitzer knew prostitution was damaging to society. he was clearly against prostitution, yet for some reason felt he was above the laws he enforced.
Would we all be better off with a woman in office, in part, because she would be less likely to get involved in these kinds of scandals?
I do think that is a bit of a sexist stereotype. Women are certainly conditioned to be monogamous, but I don't think that fidelity is proportional to estrogen levels. Let's not buy into patriarchal attitudes of woman-as-virgin-Mary now. Hillary herself may not cheat, true, but I would not be terribly shocked if say, Kathleen Sebelius or Janet Napolitano had a discrete "special friend" on the side.
Nor would I be any less inclined to support either of them if they did, assuming no laws were broken.
Besides, for Spitzer, I don't think it was about the sex. It was about the power, and about seeing what he could get away with.
"I'm not against the concept of paying for sex, just the idea that it's a dangerous line of work. If it were government regulated, the women could have health care, gyno exams, birth control access, etc."
They - we - could also be forced to either have sex with people they don't want or lose their food stamps, if they can't find some other job and workfare rules aren't carefully tailored to rule certain jobs out.
I mean, sure I sometimes feel frustrated about being a virgin but I definitely wouldn't want my first time to be arranged by my next employer with a guy who I don't even like after getting laid off from the job I have now in a difficult job market...
"Has anyone even considered whether his wife was okay with it, that maybe whatever was unusual enough to cost him $5,000 was something he liked, she didn't, and she didn't mind if he got elsewhere?"
I just realized that for all I know, there's a tiny possibility she did the same thing herself.
I'm gonna have to go ahead and object here. The fact that your gut intuition is to make the jump from Spitzer's dishonesty to questioning your support for Obama is absurd and wildly problematic. Aren't gender generalizations precisely what we're trying to escape here? Imagine if someone were to say, "well Paris Hilton was involved in a sex tape scandal, maybe I shouldn't vote for Hillary after all." It's awful reasoning. And your implication is that voting for Obama runs the risk of electing someone who, because of his gender, is not quite a "whole, authentic, honest human being." Problematic.
Mina:I just realized that for all I know, there's a tiny possibility she did the same thing herself.
Small, maybe, but not tiny. In a survery of 661 owners of private jets, it was found that 34% of males and 20% of females had paid for sex at some point in the past.
I have a modest proposal of a model press conference of a perp/celebrity:
Ladies and gentlemen of the media, greetings. Do you have any questions?
Yes, this is a cardboard image of my wife who still loves me and supports me, and who authorized me to use her hardboard image today.
Yes, those are cardboard images of my three little daughters who love me and support me.
And here is one big photo of all my supportive family members, starting from the senior member of my family, Uncle Leo.
No, on the advise on my and her attorney, no image of Miss "Kirsten" will be shown today, neither I was authorized to convey any expressions of love and support.
Do I want to say anything in my defense? It remains to be seen if I indeed violated Mann act, but among modes of transportation, I sponsored a trip on the most environmentally friendly, unionized and federally owned Amtrak.
Comments
Why would we necessarily assume a woman would be less likely to get involved in one of these scandals? Russia's Catherine the Great was a woman who loved power and also had a voracious sexual appetite. This sort of assumption/critique just lends itself to the old stereotype of women as more frigid and less sexually active. While we may use this scandal to decry legal treatment of prostitution in the US, or exploitation of women, or the intersection of sex and power, let's not use it to essentialize either gender.
Posted by: Kristen
|
March 12, 2008 11:48 AM
Kristen, I totally agree.
Posted by: yesthisismymajor
|
March 12, 2008 12:16 PM
I don't know that having a woman in office would decrease the likelihood of scandal. Though I think having Hillary in office would. Since she's been there, she would be smart enough not to get involved in something like that. She has firsthand experience.
I maintain that if prostitution were legal, it could be regulated and wouldn't be as dangerous a profession. I'm not against the concept of paying for sex, just the idea that it's a dangerous line of work. If it were government regulated, the women could have health care, gyno exams, birth control access, etc.
Posted by: Liza
|
March 12, 2008 12:16 PM
I agree with Liza, Hilary is unlikely to screw up that way--not just experience, but every rightwinger in the country will be watching for her to do something like that.
Generally, I agree with the posters: Given the perks and alpha status that come with political power, women are going to get plenty of offers and I doubt they're more immune than the guys. In my experience, women politicians are pretty much like the men in the game, for better or worse.
Posted by: Shadow32
|
March 12, 2008 12:21 PM
I agree with you in that this sort of scandal shouldn't be given so much more attention than the scandals which actually affect the way the country is governed and which negatively impact Americans...
However, I do think this scandal is significant and that he did need to resign (and I am a former Spitzer campaign volunteer). I am horrified by infidelity (just because it's omnipresent, doesn't make it okay), though I don't think that's enough to disqualify a person for public office. The real issue is that he broke the law, a law which he himself had enforced on multiple occasions. Add in the fact that I think that renting a woman's body is morally reprehensible and shows a complete lack of respect for women as subjective human beings, and I think it's absolutely a big deal for an elected official.
Posted by: Caro
|
March 12, 2008 12:28 PM
The reason I think he should resign is that he made so much political capital out of other people breaking this law, and was caught breaking it himself. I don't care either that he was breaking a law which I believe causes more harm than good, or that he was supposedly cheating on his wife-- which we don't even *know*! Has anyone even considered whether his wife was okay with it, that maybe whatever was unusual enough to cost him $5,000 was something he liked, she didn't, and she didn't mind if he got elsewhere? We don't know anything about this, and all this bullshit about his being unfit to govern because he was unfaithful is enforcing a whole lot of norms about monogamy. Has anyone even asked his wife about her opinion, or are we just assuming?
Posted by: Marnanel
|
March 12, 2008 12:56 PM
To clarify, I would care if he was cheating on his wife, in that it would be immoral and I would care if anyone was (although I don't think that personal immorality in a field unrelated to their work necessarily makes a person unfit to do that work). However, we don't know that this was done without her consent, and now that they're in the spotlight, we can't really know any more anyway, so it's not really something I want to assume.
Posted by: Marnanel
|
March 12, 2008 01:08 PM
High level politicians will always be embroiled in scandal because high political positions have corrupt gatekeepers, and a deal must be made with the devil to get there. Whether it's sex or bribes or whatever doesn't really change that.
Posted by: lizadilly
|
March 12, 2008 01:23 PM
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Anyone one else reading about the City of Detroits mayor... similar stories... but Kwame is holding tight to his plush mayor ways of life wile he bled a city that had alreay bled anough...check it out...
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080312/OPINION03/803120331
Posted by: ojibwayangel
|
March 12, 2008 01:36 PM
"It's that I want political leaders who are whole, authentic, honest human beings."
This is the bottom line. Amen!!
Posted by: Brash Lion
|
March 12, 2008 02:00 PM
I think it is morally reprehensible to cheat on one's spouse. Period. Does it disqualify someone to be a leader? I think it calls that person's character and decision-making skills into question. But the thing with Spitzer is that this wasn't a one time thing. It wasn't like he had a fling with an old flame, or got caught up in an office flirtation. He'd been visiting prostitutes for YEARS. That sort of repeated lying, deceit and disregard for one's word is disgusting and I don't want someone like that in office.
As far as Hillary goes - No, I don't think she'd get caught up in a sex scandal or something, but I could see her getting caught up in some other sort of scandal. Like bribery, political favors, kickbacks, etc. I don't think she's above the rest of Washington politics in those regards.
Posted by: MyBabyPanda
|
March 12, 2008 02:01 PM
marnanel: if you watch the video of his resignation, I'm going to go ahead and assume from Silda's expression that she doesn't approve.
And in addition, I don't care if he had her permission. Prostitution is illegal. I like smoking pot but I don't BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL.
If he was that hard up for kinky sex, he could have joined a swingers society, taken out a personal ad, something. But we all know this isn't about kinky sex that his wife wouldn't give a try. This is about him lording his power and money over another person.
I don't think men of his position purchase women because they "need" to, they purchase women because they CAN.
Posted by: anonymous
|
March 12, 2008 02:28 PM
whether or not something is illegal has very little to do with what is morally correct. here's a shortlist of things that have been illegal in the US at one time or another: gay sex, cohabitation, marrying outside your race, prescribing contraception to unmarried people, abortion. anonymous: would you have abstained from any of these things, had you lived in a time when they were illegal? it's a dangerous thing to trust politicians to guide your moral compass.
spitzer knew prostitution was damaging to society. he was clearly against prostitution, yet for some reason felt he was above the laws he enforced.
Posted by: eruss66
|
March 12, 2008 04:22 PM
Would we all be better off with a woman in office, in part, because she would be less likely to get involved in these kinds of scandals?
I do think that is a bit of a sexist stereotype. Women are certainly conditioned to be monogamous, but I don't think that fidelity is proportional to estrogen levels. Let's not buy into patriarchal attitudes of woman-as-virgin-Mary now. Hillary herself may not cheat, true, but I would not be terribly shocked if say, Kathleen Sebelius or Janet Napolitano had a discrete "special friend" on the side.
Nor would I be any less inclined to support either of them if they did, assuming no laws were broken.
Besides, for Spitzer, I don't think it was about the sex. It was about the power, and about seeing what he could get away with.
Posted by: ForbiddenComma
|
March 12, 2008 06:58 PM
"I'm not against the concept of paying for sex, just the idea that it's a dangerous line of work. If it were government regulated, the women could have health care, gyno exams, birth control access, etc."
They - we - could also be forced to either have sex with people they don't want or lose their food stamps, if they can't find some other job and workfare rules aren't carefully tailored to rule certain jobs out.
I mean, sure I sometimes feel frustrated about being a virgin but I definitely wouldn't want my first time to be arranged by my next employer with a guy who I don't even like after getting laid off from the job I have now in a difficult job market...
"Has anyone even considered whether his wife was okay with it, that maybe whatever was unusual enough to cost him $5,000 was something he liked, she didn't, and she didn't mind if he got elsewhere?"
I just realized that for all I know, there's a tiny possibility she did the same thing herself.
Posted by: Mina
|
March 12, 2008 07:20 PM
I'm gonna have to go ahead and object here. The fact that your gut intuition is to make the jump from Spitzer's dishonesty to questioning your support for Obama is absurd and wildly problematic. Aren't gender generalizations precisely what we're trying to escape here? Imagine if someone were to say, "well Paris Hilton was involved in a sex tape scandal, maybe I shouldn't vote for Hillary after all." It's awful reasoning. And your implication is that voting for Obama runs the risk of electing someone who, because of his gender, is not quite a "whole, authentic, honest human being." Problematic.
Posted by: Jocie Fong
|
March 12, 2008 08:02 PM
Mina: I just realized that for all I know, there's a tiny possibility she did the same thing herself.
Small, maybe, but not tiny. In a survery of 661 owners of private jets, it was found that 34% of males and 20% of females had paid for sex at some point in the past.
Posted by: Alice
|
March 12, 2008 10:21 PM
"It's that I want political leaders who are whole, authentic, honest human beings."
Haha...
Posted by: picturesque
|
March 13, 2008 01:59 AM
I have a modest proposal of a model press conference of a perp/celebrity:
Ladies and gentlemen of the media, greetings. Do you have any questions?
Yes, this is a cardboard image of my wife who still loves me and supports me, and who authorized me to use her hardboard image today.
Yes, those are cardboard images of my three little daughters who love me and support me.
And here is one big photo of all my supportive family members, starting from the senior member of my family, Uncle Leo.
No, on the advise on my and her attorney, no image of Miss "Kirsten" will be shown today, neither I was authorized to convey any expressions of love and support.
Do I want to say anything in my defense? It remains to be seen if I indeed violated Mann act, but among modes of transportation, I sponsored a trip on the most environmentally friendly, unionized and federally owned Amtrak.
Posted by: piotrek
|
March 13, 2008 07:54 PM