I love the Ronald Reagan bit. It never ceases to amaze me how men in politics and business grow more "distinguished" and women just get "old".

I heart Tina Fey for getting out in face of Saturday Night Live's audience and going all feminist on them. Hillary would get stuff done.

Funny, but now I feel like I'm a horrible person for supporting Obama.

Something about "bitch is the new black" in this context rubbed me exactly the wrong way.

The homophobic (George and Jeb) and transphobic (Ronald Reagan) jokes rubbed me the wrong way.

Also, "abandoning Hillary for Obama"? I didn't know that people were expected to vote for Hillary as the default.

Fantastic!!! I think that she made all the right arguments. Short and sweet and to the point. And, of course, humor really does get people to see things more clearly.

Dreama, I highly doubt that comment had ANYTHING at all to do with Obama.

Elianah, you shouldn't feel bad if you believe that your support for Obama is based on him being the better candidate. I support Hillary because I firmly believe she is the better candidate, not because she is a woman. So be at ease with your decision :)

The homophobic (George and Jeb) and transphobic (Ronald Reagan) jokes rubbed me the wrong way.

In my opinion, the George/Jeb Bush jokes weren't homophobic. They are brothers. Therefore, by reason of relation, they are not having sex. If they are having sex, it's bad because they're brothers, not because they're of the same gender. I didn't find the Reagan joke to be transphobic -- more sexist than anything else. It felt like another one of those "calling a man a woman is the worst insult he can hear" -- like calling a man a pussy or girlie, etc., because that means weak. But that's just my take on it.

I happen to like the message behind the "bitch" part. The fact is, a lot of people are saying that Clinton doesn't seem "nice" enough, that she's "cold" and "too hard". Saying, "No, really, she's super nice, she loves kitties and she knits every Sunday after Bible study!" won't do anything because then she's too soft, too emotional and feminine.

By embracing the fact that Clinton is often criticized for behaving on par with her male candidates (who are not described as being "too cold") and stating that Clinton is a bitch, just like all non-passive women have been described as, you point out the sexism and point out that bitches (women who don't just sit there and smile nicely) are actually the ones getting things done. The ability to get things done is incredibly important in a presidential candidate, in my opinion. Plus, well-behaved women seldom make history.

I dig it. But I can understand why others wouldn't.

I am very offended by this. She starts off saying that apparently feminism is so strong that we don't feel the need to vote for a female candidate just because she is a woman, so we feel comfortable voting Obama. And then she goes on to say that the reason we don't is because of sexism. Yes, sexism plays a HUGE role in negative ideas about Hillary, but not for feminists. Feminists might, just might, have valid reasons for voting Obama rather than Clinton and it is NOT based on our sexism. I would like this if she didn't place the blame on Feminism and Obama supporters, making the claim that if you support Obama it must be out of sexism.

Sigh. I loved this piece and I laughed right out loud. Don't forget this is on SNL and is meant to be tongue in cheek, satirical and over the top.

I'm just as offended by this as I would be by Steven Colbert. /eyeroll

Oh, Tina. What would we do without you?

Yes, sexism plays a HUGE role in negative ideas about Hillary, but not for feminists.

I can't speak for you, Marissa, but for myself, while I want to believe that my choice of candidate is based entirely on the issues, I honestly can't tell how much of my perception of Clinton comes from the constant right wing bleating over her. I mean, she was the first lady when I was eleven; I'm sure I have a bit of a lizard-brain reaction.

"Bitches get shit done" - I said the exact same words last week! In fact, I want her cabinet to be full of the meanest, baddest bitches she can find! That's what we need, America. Because bitches get the job DONE.

Comedy isn't about making everybody happy. It's about being honest about the things that matter to you as you see them.

I don't want to live in a world where everybody is polite all the time and where I never have to worry about hearing something that might offend me in some way.

I saw this last night and enjoyed it for the most part, even though I'm for Obama. I didn't like the "women will vote for whoever Oprah tells them to" but she did have a point though about people worrying that if Hillary can't "control" Bill. I've heard it differently than she means here though, as during one conversation one black friend blurted out her reasoning for why she wasn't voting for Hillary as "she couldn't control her husband, how she run a country?" What she meant was that if Hillary couldn't keep her husband's dick in his pants how could she possibly be president. I was offended and explained that no one can "control" their partner, no matter how much we'd like to think we can and her partner could very be cheating on her as we speak/(spoke). I was not very popular in that group afterwards.

If Tina Fey honestly believes Hillary (and Bill) would be good for this country, good for her, but I still think there was some scolding of women in that piece, especially with the "abandoning" Hillary line, as if no one had been with Obama from the start.

Obama's less qualified and less experienced than Clinton and his plans are less clearly laid out. There's absolutely no reason to vote for him over Clinton.
And before anyone pulls the "Iraq resolution" card again, remember, Obama wasn't even in the Senate when that resolution was on the floor. So he didn't vote against it, he didn't abstain from voting on it. He wasn't in the Senate, so you don't actually know how he would have voted.
Plus, Hills has a better healthcare plan.

Also, given all the sexist dog whistles from Obama and all the vitriol from his supporters at caucases and all over the 'net, I decided I won't vote for Obama even if he's the nominee. I'll write Hillary in if if comes to that.

That's basically the most awesome thing I've seen. I can't believe there are actually people offended by it. It's fantastic.

That's basically the most awesome thing I've seen. I can't believe there are actually people offended by it. It's fantastic.

Double post...sorrys.

I actually did like the part where she said that women will vote for whoever Oprah tells them to (or whatever Tina's exact words were) because I've been thinking the same thing.

Also, I feel like all of the democrats in my high school (Horace Mann) like Obama because they feel like Hillary is lame and Obama is cool.
I also feel like it has become a feminist statement in some cases to vote for Hillary. And that it has become a default to like Obama if you don't want to be accused of liking Hillary because you have a uterus.

I feel like Resident Feminist. Every time Hillary wins a state, people come up to me and say, "I bet you were so excited!" Hell yea I was, but you would be too.

In all fairness, I'm pretty ra-ra-Hillary. I'm also known to get pretty heated in classes when there is an anti-feminist statement made. So, people try to avoid that because they know I'll scream and rant and the female teachers sit back and let me do my screaming.

Personally I agree with everything she said about perceptions of Clinton, but she does make the claim that people vote for Obama because of sexism. I'm sorry but am I supposed to make my vote for a woman because I am a feminist no matter what the issues are? If I vote otherwise that automatically makes me sexist? It would be much funnier if she didn't peg that angle on it and if she just attacked the sexism Clinton is getting from all sides.

I liked it. I don't agree that she was blaming feminists for not supporting Clinton. She said "people are abandoning Hillary," not women or feminists. The piece was a critique of people who reject Clinton because of issues unrelated to her campaign, such as her looks, her husband, or how "nice" she is or isn't. As such, I don't think it's even relevant to say that she was accusing Obama-supporters, feminists, or women.

I'm sorry but am I supposed to make my vote for a woman because I am a feminist no matter what the issues are? If I vote otherwise that automatically makes me sexist?

considering the fact that Clinton and Obama hold the same positions on all those issues, only Clinton's plans to address them are more well-planned and informed than Obama's, perhaps?

It would be much funnier if she didn't peg that angle on it and if she just attacked the sexism Clinton is getting from all sides.

i thought the bit was brilliant!! Tina Fey rocks.

I created some "bitch is the new black" and "bitches get stuff done" shirts/buttons/etc

cafepress.com/gigglechick

Hope you like!!!

What issues are all you Obama supporters voting on anyway?

What specific ideas and plans do you prefer over Clinton's?

I have poured over the issue pages and voter guides and even asked people on here before and I can't find why people, feminists, would be voting Obama over Clinton. Could someone clear this up?

I saw both of them speak recently, as I am from Texas and they are campaigning hard here. Everything about Obama is cooler, slicker, and better branded. He's funny and charming, good looking and he has wonderful rhetoric, I liked a lot of what he had to say. Hillary Clinton's rally was a mess, not well organized, she's been beaten to a pulp in the media, everyone thinks she's a horrible corporate bitch. But when I read the issue pages I can't find a lot of difference aside from health care, and I think she wins that one, and gay marriage, which Obama doesn't support.

So maybe someone could clarify before March 4th?

I don't give a shit how Oprah wants me to vote.

And how exactly is using sexist, cliched rhetoric supposed to be positive for women?

MirandaJay, I'm voting for Obama because I feel he has shown better judgment throughout his career than Clinton has. I like Clinton, and can get behind her too. But I prefer Obama's stances on issues where they diverge from hers. I also prefer his health care plan.

As an Obama supporter AND feminist, I find this deeply offensive. For one, it implies that feminism and supporting someone other than a female candidate are mutually exclusively.

It's time to call a spade a spade.

A mean man is a prick.

And a mean woman is a bitch.

But is the term "prick" or "bastard" somehow pejorative of all men altogether? Or maybe these are more egalitarian terms that lambast men and women equally. Or maybe we should apply "bitch" equally so that it spread more loathing to more people and both genders.

As though somehow hate was a good thing. As though somehow we should take pride in being feared, loathed, and despised.

There comes a time when you can play semantical games only so long and Hillary Clinton has in the past two days proven herself not "a bitch", as though that is something to be proud of, but desperate, petty, vindictive, snide, and spiteful.

These are all adjectives that when applied to men are just as condemning.

If you want to dig for sexism, you'll find it anywhere, particularly if you are looking to be offended.

Clinton got out foxed politically and now she's resorting to increasingly more desperate tactics that make her seem in my opinion, not like a "bitch", but a sore loser.

I laughed out loud when I saw this.
What Tina was saying is that getting stuff done is the important thing. She is mocking those who dislike Hillary because "she's a bitch." Oh yeah? Well bitches get stuff done.
I love Tina Fey; I love Hills.

What issues does he diverge from hers on? I'm not asking for like a general statement, I can tell you the reasons why anyone might vote for someone over someone else "oh, I like them/their issues" better, I'm asking for something more specific, since I can't find anything on my own.

It really bothers me he doesn't support gay marriage because of his religion.

And he has had a shorter career so less time to fuck up as much as she has.

What about his health care plan is better than Clinton's?

where was Hillary's feminism when she went after and destroyed the lives of women who brought claims against Bill of sexual harassment and/or sexual assault?

she led the effort to systematically destroy these women. yes, some were making false allegations, but others were not.

tina fey made no attempt to offer an issues based affirmation of hillary's candidacy. she simply said that people were abandoning her for obama; as if hillary is owed the votes of women simply because she is a woman.

i disagree with this thinking, this identity politics.

no one can deny the sexism we've seen in the media, nor, can anyone deny the racism we've seen.

however, if people are gravitating towards obama, maybe its because they feel he would be a better president. maybe they feel hillary has run an underhanded campaign. maybe they disagree with her positions, or the many instances of backtracking she's demonstrated on issue after issue. maybe they take objection to the fact that she refuses to release her tax returns. maybe they take objection to the fact that she and bill refuse to open up the documents from his presidential library, documents which would actually show what types of activities qualify as her "executive" white house experience.

i do not understand why this campaign has to be so polarized. the polarization is not coming from obama's campaign; he is not singling out one single group and calling on them for support, he is talking about coalition building and bringing people together.

but here is my final point: tina fey is making a plea to the people of texas and ohio by saying "bitches get stuff done," and "bitch is the new black." that latter phrase, "the new black," is a very NYC/LA/major metropolitan area type saying; its not something that will resonate very well with voters in these states.

think about it: tina is making an appeal to working class/union democrats by saying (hillary) "is the new black"???

This rubbed me the wrong way, but I acknowledge that it might be for personal reasons rather than Tina Fey's actual words.

As an Obama supporter that also describes myself as a feminist, it has often been alluded to by people I know, even by my own family that somehow I am being a bad feminist because I am not voting for Hillary.

It seems like when I tell people I am an Obama supporter and a feminist, I am backed in to a corner, people demanding of me that I explain why I am voting for Obama so they can rebuke my arguments without even listening. Or tell me how I am just getting caught up in an empty rhetoric of "hope". It seems if I would just say I am a Hillary supporter, this wouldn't happen because it is what is expected.

There are definite reasons I am voting for Obama that I don't feel like sharing, not because I do not have a coherent argument for my candidate, but because it doesn't seem like anyone actually listens and it never seems expected of Hillary supporters, this demanding of knowing EXACTLY why someone would EVER vote for that candidate. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but this has been my personal experience.

I do like Hillary Clinton and Tina Fey, but there is a difference between dry sarcasm and just bashing the other side. I don't think Tina Fey pulled it off if this truly was supposed to be funny.

MirandaJay,

the Clinton Administration gave us "dont ask dont tell," as well as the single greatest legislative blow to gay marriage in our lifetimes: the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). this was basically a bill that the right wing pushed for and Bill Cinton signed into law because he wanted to move to the right.

obama wants to fully repeal DOMA; Hillary wants to "amend" certain sections.

you may say: Bill Cinton signed it not Hillary; however, it happened during the "35 years of experience" that she claims. it's disingenuous of her to embrace the aspects of Bill's administration when it suits her (the economy, for example) and then try to distance herself from it when its not good for her (NAFTA, for example).

Regarding the health care plans, its pretty simple:

both plans lower costs.

Hillary's mandates that everyone in america buys health insurance. Obama's mandates only that children are paid for. more than that, obama's plan says: we will lower costs and encourage you to buy insurance; hillary's says, we will lower costs and make you buy it, and if you dont, we may have to go after your wages.

the problems with hillary's plan are 1) its not clear how she means to enforce her mandates, 2) there's no way this type of plan will EVER make it through congress. Hillary says obama's plan leaves 15 million people out of coverage, but that is debateable. both have experts who say their plans cover everyone and are "universal"

for me it comes down to:
do i want the government telling me i have to buy insurance? what if i cant afford it?

tina fey made no attempt to offer an issues based affirmation of hillary's candidacy. she simply said that people were abandoning her for obama; as if hillary is owed the votes of women simply because she is a woman.

Well, then it's a pretty good thing that this was on Saturday Night Live and not, say, CNN.

Asking for people's specific reasons why they favor one candidate over another feels like a bit of a set-up. For me though there are many issues and factors but one example would be Clinton's proposals related to the housing crisis. No problem at all to freeze foreclosures for 90 days but a 5 year freeze for adjustable loans is a terrible, terrible idea. Yes there will be many people who vote for Obama because they simply like him just as there will be people who will vote for Clinton based on liking her but neither of those types make of the majority of the public.
-Danica

"Well, then it's a pretty good thing that this was on Saturday Night Live and not, say, CNN."

signthelist: point taken, but tell me, when was the last time SNL ever endorsed a candidate before this past saturday night?

"hillary's says, we will lower costs and make you buy it, and if you dont, we may have to go after your wages."

Which is not necessarily a bad thing, because the issue is getting insurance coverage for as many people as possible. I do not know how the health system in Australia, New Zealand, the UK or Canada work, but in Japan, enrolling in the national health plan (or other approved plan) is required of all full time workers, including foreigners. Aside from generally generous benefits (includes dental, but not vision), one would be hard pressed to beat the cost in the private sector.

Premiums are based on income, but for a family like mine, I had full coverage for a family of four, for almost exactly $100 per month. The upper limit on out of pocket expenses by law, is about $600 a month. (Orthodontic braces, however, cost $10-20,000 for some reason. Other "cosmetic" procedures like caps, is also outrageous.) Even costs for those without insurance are reasonable, compared to out of pocket in the US. People over 70 are FREE, except for the recently enacted standard $5 cost per visit to discourage how many elderly used to treat hospital waiting rooms like social clubs where they gather to chat, watch TV and read free magazines and newspapers while bothering nurses to take their vital signs and perform urine analysis for free. The standard cost for childbirth is about $3,000 out of pocket, nearly anywhere public or private, but the national government will reimburse you for about $2,700 for providing them with a future workforce and taxpayers (Japan has a low birth rate). Beat those costs, as I see

"The annual premium for an employer health plan covering a family of four averaged nearly $11,500. The annual premium for single coverage averaged over $4,200."

"Total [health care expenditure] was $2 TRILLION in 2005, or $6,700 per person (1). Total health care spending represented 16 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP). [Four times the cost of post 9/11 national defense.]"

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml *

along with a long list of shortcomings in the US health system vs. that of single payer systems abroad. Can you imagine being in a hospital full time for some catastrophic condition (or even getting an organ transplant) for a maximum cost of a few hundred dollars a month, in the US, as opposed to paying $1,000 per day for a room, like at my local hospital? Can you imagine being in a brand new, full service, urban private nursing home with just 16 residents in private rooms, for about $1,000 a month, as opposed to probably losing your house and all assets before Medicaid/Medicare kicks in, as in the US? (In my community, long term care, even at the state hospital, is either $10,000 or $12,000, PER MONTH, if you have assets like a house.) In Japan, I have even seen a plan in which the beautiful, newly built modern facility overlooking a forested hillside will take care of people for the rest of their lives, for a one time payment of about $40,000, plus a monthly fee of a few hundred dollars. Don't even ask me how that could possibly be profitable.

Japan looks after the health of the people within its borders pretty well, and has the longest life expectancies in the world as a result of an emphasis on PREVENTATIVE care, as opposed to the revolutionary, life saving treatments necessary in the US because many people are already too far gone, already experiencing such as heart attack, stroke, cancer, or renal failure before they do something about their health. (The Japanese health care system, plus the fact even the modern Japanese diet is not so heavy on fat, physical education takes place in public schools perhaps four days a week to promote good health at an early age, schools and many companies require or offer regular physical exams, there is a lot more walking and riding bicycles when commuting even in highly urbanized areas like Tokyo, and there are simply not as many accidents or crimes in Japan as in the US to take people before their time.)

I would consider it a blessing if I were "forced" to pay $100 a month for my family's health insurance, and had a $600 cap on out of pocket expenses, as in Japan, as opposed to the standard (no health risk) $4,000 a month (no typo) full coverage health plan (medical, drug, vision) offered by my local Blue Cross affiliate which I did not get, because I could never afford it regardless of income. Even the salesperson discouraged me from getting it, instead offering me a $639 per month plan which does not cover drug at all. My family's medications cost about $500 a month out of pocket. Dental alone would cost my family $86 a month, and only covers about 25% of costs, so I don't even bother.

Except for inheritance tax, Japan is also quite tax friendly to the middle class and low income by our standards. In addition to a 5% sales tax, I paid about 3% of my income in national and local taxes per year, as opposed to 10-20% on a comparable amount in the US. Japanese taxpayers don't pay like in Finland or Norway, to get their services.

* That site may have a political slant or agenda, but I have read comparable data elsewhere.

Sorry, health coverage in Japan is not required of all full time workers. Any workers earning over about $1,200 a month.

MirandaJay:

You say Obama's rally was well-organized and Clinton's was "a mess"? Well, right there, I'd say that's one valid argument for Obama and against Clinton. Since neither of them has significant executive experience, the way their campaigns are run says a lot about how they would govern. Clinton's campaign has been a mess, by any metric. Obama's has been, possibly, the best-run in history. No joke.

I understand that argument might not sit well with a lot of people, who are more interested in where they stand on the issues. But given how close these two are on the issues, I think you need to look at how they would get to their policy objectives. And I just think Obama would be more effective. Not cause Hillary is a mean bitch, but because I think we need an Obama-style president to get these things done. However, it's clear that a lot of people feel differently on this point, given how close this primary battle has been.

FWIW: I was both mildly wounded by Tina Fey's bit and very amused. Bitches do get shit done, but so does Barack Obama.

MirandaJay:

You say Obama's rally was well-organized and Clinton's was "a mess"? Well, right there, I'd say that's one valid argument for Obama and against Clinton. Since neither of them has significant executive experience, the way their campaigns are run says a lot about how they would govern. Clinton's campaign has been a mess, by any metric. Obama's has been, possibly, the best-run in history. No joke.

I understand that argument might not sit well with a lot of people, who are more interested in where they stand on the issues. But given how close these two are on the issues, I think you need to look at how they would get to their policy objectives. And I just think Obama would be more effective. Not cause Hillary is a mean bitch, but because I think we need an Obama-style president to get these things done. However, it's clear that a lot of people feel differently on this point, given how close this primary battle has been.

FWIW: I was both mildly wounded by Tina Fey's bit and very amused. Bitches do get shit done, but so does Barack Obama.

MirandaJay:

You say Obama's rally was well-organized and Clinton's was "a mess"? Well, right there, I'd say that's one valid argument for Obama and against Clinton. Since neither of them has significant executive experience, the way their campaigns are run says a lot about how they would govern. Clinton's campaign has been a mess, by any metric. Obama's has been, possibly, the best-run in history. No joke.

I understand that argument might not sit well with a lot of people, who are more interested in where they stand on the issues. But given how close these two are on the issues, I think you need to look at how they would get to their policy objectives. And I just think Obama would be more effective. Not cause Hillary is a mean bitch, but because I think we need an Obama-style president to get these things done. However, it's clear that a lot of people feel differently on this point, given how close this primary battle has been.

FWIW: I was both mildly wounded by Tina Fey's bit and very amused. Bitches do get shit done, but so does Barack Obama.

"Obama's less qualified and less experienced than Clinton and his plans are less clearly laid out. There's absolutely no reason to vote for him over Clinton."

Wow. No reason? First, I disagree with your premise. I've seen no indication that her plans are more clearly laid out. Second, it is incredibly rude to tell people that there is "no reason" for them to hold a certain view. Try being a little more open-minded.

sarahwonks, that one got me, too... just a weird, negative assertion...
i mean, dang... if you figure that obama started working in public policy right out of undergrad, then went to law school and came out as a civil rights attorney... this is all before working his way through the state legislature (12 years ago) to the u.s. senate, i'd say criticisms re: inexperience are quite unfounded...

regarding vague plans for the future, i've got to ask myself three things:
1. is this even true? are obama's plans any less specific than clinton's? not really, from what i've gathered from their campaign materials

2. even if it were true, when's the last time a president actually delivered on campaign promises?

3. it seems that, since the jq adams/ jackson election, it's been pretty clear the american people prefer vague rallying cries to carefully detailed plans - and can you fault a candidate for wanting to win?

re: jeb and george and homosexuality - i think her point was more that there's little chance of jeb and george sleeping together
(at least not very often), not necessarily that it would be "wrong", but rather that the chances are pretty slim.

oh, but regarding the snl bit of which this post is really about - i think it's mad funny... i mean, really... i'd say i trust obama much more than clinton (though i'd be relatively pleased to have either clinton or obama in office, to be sure) if for nothing else than his community organizing experience... but i think that bit was pretty darned hilarious (i didn't pee or anything, but i laughed a bit)...

Nypoliticlanimal, this bit = SNL endorsing Clinton? Give me a break.
SNL, as a show, has not endorsed anyone. But Obama did appear on an episode a while back, so maybe they're endorsing him?

says video is unavailable... any other way i can view it?

This wasn't an endorsement. This was a critique of all the sexist shit that comprises 99% of the so-called "political commentary" that surrounds Clinton. i.e. "Oh, she's a "bitch", is she? Well, guess what, so am I, and bitches get shit done, so deal with it."

I believe Fey skewers blind-Oprah-followers as a matter of habit, much like Jon Stewart does. And the comments regarding Jeb Bush and Reagan weren't homophobic or transphobic, in my opinion; she's saying that no one has a problem with GW belonging to a political dynasty, and no one minds watching men grow old.

Tina Fey for VP!

That was awesome.

I am not insensitive to the double standard that Clinton experiences as a woman. its similar to one argument as to why obama is so optimistic in his message.

would obama have gotten as far as he did if he had Howard Dean's angry message?

i would argue that the "bitch" remarks are not "political commentary" so much as they are comments from sexists on political websites. no main stream media outlet (aside from the flamethrowers like Rush and Ann Coulter who i dont count) refers to hillary as a bitch.

hillary gets called a bitch by people; obama gets called racist names by people...its the way it is right now.

my point is this: if that wasnt an offical SNL endorsemnt, its the closest thing i've ever seen from the show. it was tina fey's night, and here she is saying that america has "abandoned" hillary?

in any event, here is hillary herself saying that people should look to saturday night live as evidence of media bias:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/25/hillary-clinton-says-watc_n_88265.html

a couple things:

1) the idea that the media has given obama a free ride is absolutely a fairy tale.

the media has pushed some ridiculously false narratives about obama since this race began:

>he's a muslim
>he studied at madrassa
>is he black enough
>is he too black
>he has no experience (despite a longer resume in terms of years spent as a legislator than hillary)
>is he patriotic enough
>all style to hillary's substance
>his supporters are a cult
>he is a messaniac figure

i dont want to go through each to debunk them, but i will say this: all of these things have been ideas that hillary's campaign people have pushed into the media's discourse about obama. the cult stuff and being not patriotic are the two most recent examples.

these are the narratives that have framed obama since day one. despite the fact that, in the beginning, the knock on him was that his stump speeches were too "professorial."

the point is:
obama has tried to keep this about issues; hillary says she wants to talk issues, but then wolfson and penn get on the phone and say obama thinks he's messiah and his supporters are unbalanced cultists.

she has made some very personal attacks against obama and poisoned a lot of the talk about him in a very personal, hateful way. not cool, IMO, since we're all democrats and we should be united against the GOP candidate.

and lastly, just for good measure, here is a clip from an SNL skit last year, where NBC's Brian Williams jokes that the media has already decided Hillary will be the nominee.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Brian_Williams_media_has_already_chosen_1104.html

anyone who thinks Hillary has been treated unfairly in the eyes of the media is probably not being genuine. especially when you consider the fact that, for SOOO long, hillary was the de facto nominee. no one questioned her, her record, anything.

we should not confuse the media with the hateful/sexist things we read on blog/news comment sections.

I thought that was hilarious.

I'm actually supporting Obama, for a hundred different reasons, but it was a hard decision for me. I voted for Hillary as senator and I am glad that I did. I would be happy with either candidate. It burns me up that it is so acceptable to trash her because she's a woman. So my hat is off to Tina Fey.

I read these discussion boards every day and the animosity between Hillary and Obama supporters is incredible to me. This is a board where people who have fully thought out opinions post, not some nonsense Facebook group. Disagreement is one thing (and I love the heated ones!), but claws off people.

Either way we're on the road to progress. It's important to note that these candidates are career politicians with sketchy tactics, and mistakes under their belts regarding policy decisions. They've also both done great things, and will continue to.

As far as SNL, it's refreshing to hear anything saying it's ok to be a bitch. I wouldn't put it that way, but it might be the only language that makes it seem acceptable to the anti-Hillary, and more importantly, the sexist (whether they're aware of it or not) members of the SNL audience.

People like you guys make me hate politics.

Love Tina Fey. Was very amused by this. I've taken to using the line already.

The parts before the "bitches" ending were funny because they were goofy and ridiculous (who votes for starsky and hutch? She knows she's being over the top with ideas like "Oprah told me to" and "Abandoning Hillary") Those were just lead-ins to her big payoff of the "bitches" thing. She created a character of someone who is outraged and defensive and making crazy unfair arguments because she's pissed off. And that's why it's funny. If she were just outraged and explained exactly why reasonably it would just be an editorial. Tina Fey is way smart--there's NO way she thinks Obama people are just Oprah yes-women. ;) But calling them that is kinda funny if you say it with a straight face and it's obvious that the disgusting treatment of Hillary is what made you so over-the-top in your reaction.

I wonder sometimes, in my optimistic moods, if we'll ever have a campaign thread before it's over where everyone knows to search the archives to see why Obama supporters support Obama, or Hillary supporters support Hillary (though they're asked so much less often) without asking people AGAIN and AGAIN like they're on trial for their vote.

But I, for one am grateful to Snobographer on this thread (Feb 24 5:51) for rescuing Obama supporters from that all-pervasive "Obama people are so childish they'll not vote for Hillary if she's the candidate" charge. Obviously you've proven to us that the pendulum swings both ways on that one, so we don't have to cover THAT ground again.

I loved this. Go Tina. I imagine there's nothing easy about breaking into the very male-dominated comedy scene, either.

NBC must have had a shit fit that it was on YouTube, because it's down due to copyright reasons. There's a non-YouTube link in my blog if anyone wants to see it. And if that video goes down, there's a transcript. Just click on my name :)

OHMYGODZZ

So the video was taken off youtube and replaced by someone complaining about Hillary getting free advertising and then showing a bunch of pics with her and George W. (who wants to bet we could /also/ find picks with Obama and George W?)

Anyway, /this/ SNL skit remains on the web:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd8_Fjj2uuk

If Tina Fey's snip was free advertising, would this be too?

Bitches get stuff done, huh? Like when Hillary attacked the credibility of a 12-year-old girl so that an alleged rapist could walk free? Or when she constantly turned a blind eye to her husband's philandering and constant abuse of power over women who worked for him?

That was awesome! I heart Tina Fey. Too bad this kind of critique couldn't come sooner. I wonder if we will look back on this time and cringe at how unbelieveably easy it was to get women to be ashamed of voting for a woman. I think this will be something we will discuss for a long time to come. When it comes down to it, many women were just not ready to vote for a woman president.

I have to say the feminist in me cannot help but notice yet again a woman with twice the experience and track record is getting passed over by a younger less qualified man. The worst thing is women let it happen. It's hard for me not to feel shame about that. Sorry, but that is where I am coming from.

am i the only one who was disturbed by the racial politics of fey's "bitch is the new black" line?
i mean, i am obsessed with 30 rock, and tina fey is one of the funniest human beings on the planet...
but by saying "bitch is the new black," fey is very similar to john lennon's statement: "women are the niggers of the world." now, the truth that women are oppressed the world over due to a patriarchal societal structure is right, but to conflate that oppression with the equally legitimate oppression of a whole 'nother group is ... a bit wrong. by saying "bitch is the new black," fey, besides making the correct observation that tough women get shit done, also implies (most likely unconsciously) that women supplant african americans.
women have been oppressed in unique ways, as have Blacks in America and across the world. It's not right to conflate the two, negating their differences and eliding their uniquitites.

(h/t) http://jackandjillpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/02/this-is-worlds-smallest-violin.html

I always interpreted phrases that refer to something as the "new black" (ie, pink is the new black is something i heard a while ago) to be sort of a fashion statement that just means it's in style. That's the only context in which I'd ever heard it used. i thought Tina was just saying, being a bitch is in style. i would be shocked if she meant it in the way invisible_hand described.

My roommate and i watched the video together, she's an Obama supporter and I am still undecided, but we both thought the video was great.

invisible_hand,

If that's what Tina meant by "bitch is the new black" then I agree with you about the connotation being a little messed up.

But I think there's some debate as to whether she was actually referring to black people, or just picked an unfortunate style metaphor cuz it sounded catchy...

"Or when she constantly turned a blind eye to her husband's philandering and constant abuse of power over women who worked for him? "

I don't like Bill Clinton very much b/c of his personal actions. (Although I think the "constant abuse of power over women who worked for him" bit is a little debatable. Plenty of man-whores treat women very well on the whole, and that's how they can get away with it. I know Chelsea Clinton when she spoke at our school said she always felt gender relations were very equal in her immediate family.) Either way, I think holding Hillary accountable is a little unfair. It's been argued by many people that a president's personal/sexual life shouldn't be a factor in determining whether or not he's a good president -I think for the most part, that's true -certainly most people in less religiously-Conservative developed nations tend to agree with that. And a whole heck of a lot of politicians and powerful men in general do philander (50% of men total) -unfortunate maybe, but we can't possibly fire them all as long as the professional sphere is considered separate from the private.

Frankly, I do not know much of anything about Obama's current and prior sexual life one way or the other, which makes it sort of hard to compare the two candidates on that basis anyway...

Apparently Obama did some investigating for the Duke Lacrosse Case in an attempt to determine whether the lacrosse player's civil rights were violated...

But, he hasn't gotten involved in other rape cases, that I know of.

I wonder if that move had anything to do with politics and trying to send a message to certain constituents...

I hate to admit this, but I used to be very anti Hillary. When I truly sat down to examine my reasons for disliking her I realized that they came out of a place of misogyny, not one of sound political analysis. I tried to push through this, to push through the fact that she stayed with her husband and supported the half slandering of the women accusing him, but it was difficult. What finally turned me into a Hillary supporter was watching all the debates (and reading them, so as not to be persuaded by Obama's superior oratorical skills) and trying to figure out which candidate has more cogent, thoughtout plans for the US. I was Obama all the way until I sat down to do the work. It's hard for me to understand now, why people are voting for him unless you give that knee-jerk reaction I had at the beginning more credit. I'm not a lover of Tina Fey, but she is spot on about this.

Man, If Obama is the young, hip candidate, why are so many of his supporters here so uptight?

After Edwards dropped out, I begrudgingly voted for Obama. I don't think he's any better than her on the issues; I just think he has a better chance in November.

That said, I LOVED this clip. It's comedy, and yes, it's opinionated. Frankly, many Obama supporters need to get their head out of the clouds, and this funny, sassy swat from my new crush Tina Fey may help that.

If you remove personal charisma from the equation, there is very little reason to support Obama over Hillary. However, personal charisma does matter - it will matter very much in November.

I like both candidates quite a lot. I hope they will be on the same ticket, whoever is on top. Given that they're both good, I'm choosing the one who has the best chance to win in the general election: IMO opinion that is Obama.

But when I read the issue pages I can't find a lot of difference aside from health care, and I think she wins that one, and gay marriage, which Obama doesn't support.

Neither candidate supports gay marriage. Both support civil unions.

I've heard it differently than she means here though, as during one conversation one black friend blurted out her reasoning for why she wasn't voting for Hillary as "she couldn't control her husband, how she run a country?" What she meant was that if Hillary couldn't keep her husband's dick in his pants how could she possibly be president.

Black eh?

“Women have come so far as feminists, that they don’t feel obligated to vote for a candidate just because she’s a woman. Women today feel perfectly free to make whatever choice Oprah tells them to…� – now would these be the same women who excoriated ol’ uppity Oprah for being a “traitor� because she stumped for a black man instead of a woman? :-)

If bitches get stuff done, then Hillz is slacking on the job to have lost 11 in a row. Oh, I forgot, that’s because Obamatons are turning out in record numbers to vote for an inexperienced candidate.

calisousista,

I'm not going to comment on the first point you made -I don't disagree, but I'm also not a huge Oprah fan -so I can take it or leave it.

But to be fair in regards to the second point, the whole point of this clip was that bitches are generally not popular, but they can do concrete work in a tough work environment...
The fact is, being president requires a different (although overlapping) set of skills than getting elected does...

I guess maybe I sympathize w/ the way Hillary has been treated in part b/c in grade school I was always the smart, competent girl who was lacking some social smoothness, and lost out on some opportunities (student council, etc.) to people who were cheerleaders and said things like they "would make chocolate milk flow out of the water fountains". I realize that is an exaggerated example, but I think the theme plays out in subtler ways in politics all the time... Now I'm older and a lot more socially graceful -not necessarily /nicer/, just more graceful and not to be corny but also "cooler", and people treat me so much better. In some ways I think pulling off a certain persona requires some energy that could be invested in more productive pursuits. I have mixed feelings about it, frankly...

Nina,

I watched the skit; I read the transcript. I get what Fey was trying to convey about “bitches.� Maybe my comments were a bit reactionary because as invisible_hand mentioned above, I was disturbed by the racial undertones in the clip, and also with the way Obama supporters are often infantilized by some Hillary followers -- too stupid or mesmerized to think for themselves.

On another note: Did you really lose out in high school because of a lack of social smoothness? Maybe the “chocolate milk� cheerleaders had better policies than you did. :-)

Somebody needs to tell the HillBillies that "years in office" don't necessarily equal "years of experience." When I write up my resume for writing jobs, I don't mention my working days at Blockbuster Video.

dirty bug -
i am sorry to say that i think you need to do some more "work" on your research.
another MAJOR difference between their two campaigns is in foreign policy. here, clinton wants to end the war and bring home the troops, but that's where the differences end for her and the current admin. she has yet to recant her vote for the war. she has spoken out in favor of an aggressive attitude toward iran, and she supported kyl lieberman.
obama, on the other hand, is favoring a more diplomatic approach to foreign relations, trying to establish america as a more positive presence on the world stage. he has been against the war from the beginning. his major foreign policy advisors are darfur activists, and joe biden, perhaps the best person ever on foreign policy, has endorsed his take on it - http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4336145

in addition, juan is correct that neither candidate (sadly) supports gay marriage, but both are strongly for ciivl unions.

invisible_hand,
while your points about the war are, well... on point...

it's important to recognize that:
civil unions =/= same-sex marriage

ask anyone who has one... certainly ask anyone who has a civil union who's tried to visit her/his partner in the hospital or another such bureacratic nightmare locale and see if civil unions are the same thing as marriage.

they're not... and barack obama has said:

I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.

mind you, obama voted against doma, which gets him points, imo, while clinton vocally supported doma during her husband's administration, which is a serious strike in my book.

clinton:

I feel very good about the strategy we took on DOMA

i don't think it gets more clear than that.

they both kind of suck on lgbt issues, though they've both been very clear that they have "gay friends," which reminds me of something...

"On another note: Did you really lose out in high school because of a lack of social smoothness? Maybe the “chocolate milk� cheerleaders had better policies than you did"

Well yeah, I think social smoothness in the the sense that I was not very popular before I decided to run for student council -I was serious, and studious, and creative/"different" -teachers loved me, students not so much.

I guess their policies might have been better if you consider something that sounds nice but that they didn't ever have the power to actually do to be a better policy...

I find the Tina Fey thing offensive. I'm tired of being told that my political choices are limited by my vagina. Don't I have the right as a woman to review the issues and pick the person I think is best for the job?

Both Clinton and Obama are smart and capable. When someone tells me one of them is not, it makes me suspicious of how much homework that person has really done. It makes me think the person in question is spouting their candidate's talking points and the media narrative of the moment instead of doing research.

By the way, Barack Obama does not have less experience than Hillary Clinton. Obama has 11 years of legislative experience to Clinton's seven. And if you review the candidates' work in the Senate, which you can through the Library of Congress, Obama's bills have been more successful, better supported by other Senators on both sides of the aisle, and they have more teeth than Clinton's similar bills. (See Obama's bill S.133 vs. Clinton's bill S.701.)

Of course, you can review both records and disagree with me that Obama comes out on top, but I don't think anyone can rationally do their homework on Obama's legislative record and say that he is an empty suit.

I have chosen to support Obama, but will support the Democratic nominee, whoever that is, because I believe in liberal principles and don't want to see four more years of Republicanism. I'm getting the feeling that some of my fellow Democrats are more interested in seeing their candidate win, or seeing their favorite "first" in office (woman or black man).

The sexism AND racism in this campaign have been despicable and polarizing. But the fact that Clinton is the victim of sexist attacks is not a reason for me to vote for her. Just as the fact that Obama is the victim of racist attacks is not a reason for me to support him.

Do Clinton and her supporters truly think that attacking Obama's supporters as delusional and stupid is going help her case, the party and the November election?

I heart Tina Fey so madly right now. The fact that Obama supporters are rushing to justify their decision proves her point more.

Look, they are very similar on issues. They mainly differ on the voting to use force. He wasn't even in the Senate so we do not really know if they differ there, because when he got into the Senate he still voted to support it by funding the war. So who knows where this guy stands honestly. He hasn't been a Senator long enough to know.

Moreover with the gay issue, Hillary has taken time to be interviewed by the gay media such as Logo. Logo extended an invitation to Obama but has still yet to get an interview.

This to me is Obama, he says anything to get elected, but he doesn't mean anything.

Is he pro-gun, pro nuclear, or not? No one knows.

How is he better than Hillary? At his best he may be close to her, but definitely not better.

Say what you want, but your daughters and their daughters will never see a woman President in their lifetime. You will be the ones to explain to them that you left it up to a male media to tell you not to vote for a better candidate. What a feminist role model you will be.

Absolutely Smartorange.

As feminists, we have worked our whole lives for this moment. Our foremothers fought for us to have this moment. We have an amazing woman running for the office of the president. Not just any woman running, but the most qualified candidate in years. I cannnot believe the cowardly way women are rolling over to appease the male media. Don't vote your vagina, but no one is saying don't vote your skin color. On the contrary what black man or woman is not voting for Obama (90%!)? Which I fully support as they have fought their whole lives for this moment. But they have vision and clarity, and we are chcken shits. We lack the courage of our convictions to make this moment ours. I am proud of black America right now, but disgusted by women.

I don't really get the lame "I can vote who I want" BS as it is just a way to appease your mind that you failed to act. Excuse it all you like, in history, you prevented a great moment from happening. One that we could have shared with our daughters. But now, our daughters know, they are not able to be representations of "cool" "hip" or "inspirationsal". What this election has shown us iswe all end up shrill, bitchy, women. Thank you feminsts, what a legacy we have created for the future.

When the weaker candidate messes up in his first term, I will be sure to proudly disply my "Don't blame me, I voted for Hillary" bumper sticker!

Say what you want, but your daughters and their daughters will never see a woman President in their lifetime.

What if I don't plan to have children? Oh, that's right. I'm a WOMAN. I'm SUPPOSED to have children, just like I'm SUPPOSED to vote with my vagina. Sounds awfully anti-feminist to me - but then again, 1/2 of the shit feminists say is dripping with hypocrisy.

I’m sorry to wholeheartedly disagree with you, Jennifer, and to disappoint my unborn daughters, but I’m black and feminist and I’m voting for Obama. This quote from "The Angry Black Woman" sums up how I feel about this whole Obama vs. Hillary debate:

"I’m a black woman. I’m a feminist that’s voting for Obama. I was on the verge of ceasing to call myself a feminist since it’s become quite obvious that many white feminists think I’m too stupid to notice them saying nigger under their breath after every call for sisterhood. But then it occurred to me that there’s no reason to let them be the face of the feminist movement. So if you want to vote for Hillary because her values align with yours? That’s great. But don’t you dare try to tell WOC how to vote while insinuating that they’re too stupid to think for themselves ..."

http://theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com/2008/02/14/a-black-woman-contemplates-breaking-up-with-feminism/

Calisoulsista you may have wanted to have read Jennifer’s comment a little further before replying:
“Don't vote your vagina, but no one is saying don't vote your skin color. On the contrary what black man or woman is not voting for Obama (90%!)? Which I fully support as they have fought their whole lives for this moment. But they have vision and clarity, and we are chcken shits. We lack the courage of our convictions to make this moment ours. I am proud of black America right now, but disgusted by women.�
I believe her outrage is that fact that Hillary is a very qualified candidate and that the women here are assuming that voting for her is voting your vagina. That is simply not true. She is more qualified than most past Presidents let alone the current nominee. That is why that voting vagina thing does not wash.
So to the Other Jennifer, I have to say I also do not have children forgive me for using my “Obama� embellishments to make my statement more romantic. I guess that kind of inspiring speech is only OK if a MAN does it. Let’s just say future women then. Ok?

As for this statement:
“ but then again, 1/2 of the shit feminists say is dripping with hypocrisy.�

I guess that says all I have to on this matter. Right you are not a feminist, point taken. Good for you. I mean, how dare a woman want equal rights; they should be shot and killed for that.

You know you are all voting with people who hate women right? Just go to the Huffington post and read the comment section there. If you feel good about that then you are right; you do not have the audacity to hope or to call yourself a feminist.

Right you are not a feminist,

That's right, I'm not.

Just go to the Huffington post and read the comment section there.

I'm sure they're as hateful and as ignorant and as full of victimization as they are here.

you do not have the audacity to hope or to call yourself a feminist.

Nor the self-centeredness, delusion or even the desire to be one.