Re: Bible and homosexuality

I dont see how anybody can say that the Bible does not explicitly condemn it.

If you want to argue that the Bible is an archaic work that has no relevance to modern society, I'll buy that.

If you want to argue that the bible is not the word of god but instead a collection of racist, sexist ramblings from a bunch of bigots, then I'll buy that too.

If you want to argue that the Bible condemns a lot of trivial things (eating shrimp, wearing clothes composed of different thread types) and that people are being selective about the condemnation of homosexuality, then I'll buy that also.

But I wont buy the explanation that the Bible doesnt really condemn it, but instead uses coded language to refer to other activities besides homosexuality.

My original post had 3 URLs and I just remembered that those get held indefinitely, so I'll split it up into 3 posts:

I just remembered these links too:

http://www.racialicious.com/2008/02/15/not-woman-enough/

"...It is peculiar–in my experience, some white men don’t relate to black women as women. On more than one occaision, at more than one job, a white male co-worker has made comments to me that violate society’s codes of chivalry. What gentleman comments on how old a woman looks? This is not the first time the man in question has made a subtly derogatory comment about my appearance. I have also noticed how his eyes slide distastefully over my natural hair.

"When I began typing this post, I worried that I was overreacting. In the re-telling, the offense seems so petty and maybe subject to interpretation. Maybe it wasn’t about race at all, maybe my co-worker simply finds me haggard looking and is surprisingly untactful. So, I called up a good friend–another black woman–that I can always count on for wise counsel. She understood exactly what I meant about the peculiar state of non-femaleness black women sometimes occupy in the mainstream. It is the weird flip side to the stereotype of the wanton black sexual temptress..."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7250458.stm

"...White House hopefuls' daughters were traditionally wallflowers wheeled out occasionally to help project a cosy family image.

"But a new breed is now taking centre stage to harvest the coveted votes of that once elusive demographic, the MTV Generation...

"...Twenty-somethings Chelsea Clinton, Republican front-runner John McCain's daughter, Meghan, and Mike Huckabee's daughter, Sarah, are all making an impact on the stump this year..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/23/AR2008022300693.html

"When Nina Reiser disappeared in September 2006, investigators suspecting foul play looked long and hard at her estranged husband, the computer genius Hans. Eccentric, awkward and notoriously difficult as a human being, Hans Reiser proved quite accommodating when it came to providing clues...

"...But his attorneys cast it as evidence of an innocence peculiar to Hans, a computer programmer so immersed in the folds of his own intellect that he had no idea how complicit he was making himself appear..."

I've long thought that the media had a bit of a gross obsession with young women in Hollywood engaging in self-destructive behavior, but I hadn't thought about the double standard. While I'm not sure the Amy Winehouse-Heath Ledger comparison is entirely accurate (part of the reason, I think, people didn't want the video of Ledger shown is because of how recent his death has been. Winehouse is still very much alive) but the comparison between Brittney Spears and Owen Wilson is pretty much spot on.

And I'm also sick about all of the things that "might" cause cancer. (Oh, and there was a headline a couple of days ago that said sleeping could be a sign of an increased chance of stroke!)

That Angry White Men article is like, the most pathetic thing...

Re: For the Bible Tells Me So

This movie played at an indie theatre near my college campus back in November and it's VERY enlightening (and funny--they use cartoons to illustrate a lot of points). If you get the chance to see it, you definitely should. I saw it for extra credit in a Religious Studies class, but it's great to see just for your own interest as well.

Pleasing comic:

http://xkcd.com/387/

And the essay about the mother's explanation of FGM was really well done.

As always, thank you.

xkcd rocks!

And the angry white man rant was scary enough when I thought that it was a letter to the editor, but at the bottom, it says that the author is a regular columnist. Liberal media, my left one.

"And the essay about the mother's explanation of FGM was really well done."

I agree. I also just found this:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200802210106.html

"Uganda: Female Circumcision Bill in Offing

"New Vision (Kampala)

"20 February 2008
Posted to the web 21 February 2008

"Barbara Among
"Kampala

"A Bill that seeks to criminalise female genital mutilation was presented in Parliament yesterday. If enacted, a person found guilty of engaging in the practice is liable to imprisonment of between seven to 10 years or a fine of not less than sh1m..."

I just found this abortion comic from 1973, which I thought everyone here might find interesting.

Damn, that Aspen Times piece of shit is one of the most reactionary things I have read in some time. I especially love the whining insinuation that hateful, angry white dudes are actually the mainstream. And that most of those nasty female/non-pale folk ARE "looking for anything from anyone."

It's only a level playing field if AWM can always count on running downhill.

Wait. No, actually, that article really pissed me off. Now I AM an angry white dude. Thanks, Aspen Times!

wow. that abortion comic from 1973 is incredible. even more so... the "who killed junior" comic that is linked to from the same page. geez. i particularly loved the image of knife in uterus chopping up baby. [sigh]

as for other contributions, i don't have any links to stuff i've found, but i've been making my own comics on feminism/sexism stuff. (you can find them here.) they're all more than one page, though, so not as quick a read as xkcd. only three so far (7 pages total), but more in the works.

wormulus, for some reason that link doesn't seem to work for me.

did i somehow mess up that link? man. i'm sucking with the html today
link to my comics

That Angry White Male piece was sucha load of crap. Self righteous and reactionary. Amazing how people write so their readers can puff their chests out and swell with pride, at the thought of "thats right, don't mess with me or my kind, womenz".

AND how can the "angry white man" be part latino or mexican, yet still regard himself as White Men. How does the writer know this?

Are they and everyone else supposed to be eager to join the previledged ranks of white males?

Suppressing the urge to vomit over the Angry White Male manifesto (did anyone else find it hilarious that one of the paragraphs literally started with, "He's not a racist, but..."?), stomach in knots over the FGM one.

Also, my mom had my school pictures airbrushed one year. I didn't even find out about it until they came in the mail and my face was solid Silly Putty color, no spots of any kind. I'm pretty sure that if you asked her today, she still wouldn't be able to tell you why I was bothered. Crazy.

Re: Bible and Homosexuality

No one is saying that the bible DOESN'T condemn homosexuality, what people are pointing out is that Leviticus condemns a lot of shit that for some reason fundamentalist Christians choose to ignore. He's right in saying that one verse down eating shellfish is also an abomination and yet there are probably plenty of fundies who enjoy them some shrimp but no one is waiving signs around that they should be put to death or that they're going to burn in hell. The bible condones slavery, so would it be okay for me to snatch one of my neighbors kids and "own" them? No, it wouldn't. I'm wearing pants right now, that's also a no-no according to biblical law. If we don't follow those rules anymore, why the fuck are they [the fundies] still so hung up on the gays?

re: living single

I enjoyed that a lot. I'm currently single and sometimes wonder if I am "normal" and if everyone else is doing something I'm supposed to be doing, like clubbing and partying or whatever. Much like when I started finding child-free communities there is something to finding that you really aren't the only one and there's nothing wrong with you:)

1 more article:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/23/girl.saves.siblings.ap/index.html

"...As flames consumed her home and prevented her parents from rescuing her and two younger siblings, a quick-thinking 12-year-old girl saved the other children Saturday by kicking out a second-story window and helping them down, firefighters said.

"Derrionna Adams then leaped 15 feet to safety, East St. Louis Fire Chief William Fennoy said.

"'She kicked the window out and stepped up onto the roof of the first floor and was able to pull her two siblings out,' Fennoy said. 'This was a blessed day.'..."

That angry white man piece was sheer Comedy Gold!

A University of Michigan dorm is selling shirts that say "Superman that Ho." Stay classy, U of M.

I really liked that song. I thought it was cool and the dance was fun and I just really liked it. I had no idea what it was saying -- like, literally, I could only catch a couple words that sounded like English. 'Soldja Boy' and 'Superman' were pretty much it. Also "I got me some babymakers" which I thought was kind of dumb, but not as overtly offensive, as say, 'Bitches Ain't Shit', for instance.

Yesterday, I saw a comic on Married to the Sea that mentioned it and I thought, "No way is that what it's about!" So I looked it up and that IS what it's about. In my defense, I am very naive.

Don't forget, though, that God does hate shrimp.

In the article about looking at vaginas they mention It's Perfectly Normal- I bought the book and love it, although my son's not old enough for it yet so it hasn't been, um, road-tested as a parenting tool. BUT I did just read a really interesting book called Sperm Counts by Lisa Jean Moore. She uses the book as an example of how kids' body and sex books give sperm and eggs weirdly gender stereotyped anthropomorphic characteristics. It was a really interesting read, showing how we impose social ideas onto biology.

Can we please stop referring to vulvas as vaginas? These are two different things. Calling a vulva a vagina is like calling an arm an elbow.

Angry white male? Seriously? I have seldom read such crap in years. My favorite bit has to be that our poor AWM isn't opposed to kill people who need killing. I'm assuming the AWMs get to decide who it is who needs killing.

somebody call the waaaaaaaahmbulance for the Angry White Male.

somebody call the waaaaaaaahmbulance for the Angry White Male.

Wow. I just watched the hip hope and masculinity video, and I have to say, it's incredible. I highly recommend it!

(ungh. typo. *hip hop. though... an interesting freudian slip)

another article:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/health/bal-chemo0223,0,7856129.story

"A woman who had her medical coverage canceled as she was undergoing treatment for breast cancer has been awarded more than $9 million in a case against one of California's largest health insurers.

"Patsy Bates, 52, a hairdresser from Lakewood, had been left with more than $129,000 in unpaid medical bills when Health Net Inc. canceled her policy in 2004.

"On Friday, arbitration judge Sam Cianchetti ordered Health Net to repay that amount while providing $8.4 million in punitive damages and $750,000 for emotional distress..."

Thanks for pointing out the Bilerico Project's month long series for Black History Month focusing on LGBT people. Several of our contributors have participated with great posts and the NBJC has provided a personal profile every day.

Since next month is Women's History Month, we'll be doing the same thing with bi, lesbian and trans women.

We keep a special block in the middle column for the month to let readers catch some of the posts they may have missed.

Again, thanks for pointing us out.

Hey, I killed a man in Memphis, just to watch him die, and I wasn't even angry at him.

I was white, though....

Angry White Male? What a crock of shit. My ex-husband thought that the most picked on person is the white male. He made comments like, "Some women are such bitches, they don't deserve equal rights." I asked him what made him think he was entitled to equal rights. Of course, he didn't get it. He seemed to think that women should only be allowed equal rights as a favor, but men are automatically entitled to them just by being born male. He made similar comments about minorities.

The Angry White Man owns firearms, and he’s willing to pick up a gun to defend his home and his country. He is willing to lay down his life to defend the freedom and safety of others, and the thought of killing someone who needs killing really doesn’t bother him.

Wait, has the AWM told you recently how big his dick is? Really, it's huge. And don't tell him any differently, 'cause he has various firearms that he's not afraid to use (not that he has to use them to prove he's a man - have you heard how big his dick is???).

That article made my week.

Here's some misogynist ads from the past.

http://www.asylum.com/2008/02/19/real-ads-really-disturbing/

(Just don't read the comments. Yeah, "blah blah blah Political Correctness ruined everything blah blah blah I wouldn't mind seeing women beaten up in ads blah blah blah hey you want persecution, check out how dumb men are in sitcoms blah blah blah." I get it now. Stop whining, you easily offended, over privileged man-children.)

I just, uh, really haven't got past the fact that the AWM article wasn't satire. I mean... seriously? "Women love him or hate him but they know he's a MAN"? "I'm not a racist, but..."? "If you drowned in Katrina it's because you SUCK!"?

Meh. Cassie has a point, I think - it really would've saved everyone a lot of time if the writer had just written "MY PENIS IS ENORMOUS, HONEST" in big letters.

re: wedding dresses being sexy. Is this really a new thing? Both of my friends who've been married in the past year have gone with somewhat sexy dresses (one was in a strapless ballgown - classic but certainly not sexless and the other was in a halter dress) and I'm going with a slinky sheath for my wedding next year - showing as much cleavage as I can get out of my little boobs. My wedding, my right, lol.

In my browsing I haven't really seen any dresses that were too demure - even dresses with a higher neckline are form fitting through the waist and hip area.

Another article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/7261667.stm

"A woman pilot who was among those who flew replacement fighters to RAF bases during World War II has spoken of her joy at the recognition for her work.

"Margaret Frost, 87, is one of 15 women and 100 men who are to have a special merit award for serving in the Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA)..."

Re: the Bible and gays.

Let's not kid ourselves here - the Bible does NOT view male homosexuality as on the same plane with eating shrimp or pork.

Violating kosher eating rules is not a death penalty offense.

Men having sex with each other IS.

The Old Testament is pretty clear on that - and not just Leviticus either.

Just to be clear, all three of the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are violently opposed to men having sex with each other.

Now, LGBT folks who want to continue with their allegiance to one of the Abrahamic religions (not to mention their straight allies) really need to open their eyes and realize that.

Speaking of "political incorrectness", one of Jen's posts inspired me to make this Facebook group for people who aren't buying the "sexy truth teller" facade.

http://facebook.com/group.php?gid=22162852544

RE: Wedding dress
It's awesome that more women aren't going for the pure virginal look. I'm planning to wear an old (lovely) blue dress that I wore to my high school prom for my wedding, partly because I'm cheap, but I also don't want to wear white. Why? Because the whole The-Bride-Wears-White-Cuz-That-Means-She's-Pure thing is a steaming load of BS (google the history of the Western wedding dress and you'll see what I mean) and I'm not going to conform to that. Plus blue is my favorite color. I know my future mother in law isn't going to like it cuz she has ranted about how brides with children shouldn't be allowed to wear white.

RE: Tampire
LOL!!!

RE: Girls looking at their vaginas
ALL girls should know what their vaginas look like. They're conditioned from birth to think that they're "dirty down there" and that absolutly disgusts me.

RE: Bills for rape kits
Yet another thing that disgusts me. It's yet another example of the white men in power not caring at all about the woman's well being.

ROFL at those ads, Genetic_Mishap. "You can't fight the Axis if you get VD!" That needs to be a bumper sticker so I can [i]wallpaper my house with them[/i].

re: "angry white men"

About a week ago Jack Cafferty from CNN posed the question to viewers, "Is the importance of white male voters being overlooked in this election cycle?" http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/ (the fourth entry down)

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have been accused of playing the "race card" and the "gender card," and they have transmitted their progressive beliefs to us practically in code for fear of getting backlash from the important white male voter (for whom "race" and "gender" are classifications too specific to resonate with them personally, even as "white male" is certainly specific). The idea is that the candidates "must please everyone," and once they talk too long about women, too long about people of color, they stop pleasing "everyone." I suppose just how long is "too long" can be decided by white males.

So, doesn't all evidence point to the importance of the white male voter?

"Now, LGBT folks who want to continue with their allegiance to one of the Abrahamic religions (not to mention their straight allies) really need to open their eyes and realize that."

Leviticus 18:22 tells us not to "lie with a man as one lies with a woman". The same chapter cites many incestuous configurations ("family" being defined by either blood or marriage) as well as having intercourse with a woman during her period as unlawful. The punishment for these acts is "being cut off from your people", not death. Later, chapter 20 lists many of the same sexual acts, upping the punishment for several to death. Chapter 20 also prescribes death for a person who curse his or her parents or who commits adultery.

The book also tells us not to breed two different animals (labradoodle owners, beware!; 19:19), clip our beards (19:27), or have tattoos (19:28). Leviticus gives us the rules for animal sacrifice and commands us to let all our fields lie fallow every seven years (ch. 25).

The Old Testament condemns the men of Sodom and Gomorrah for being unfaithful to the Lord. Lot's visitors are the intended victims of rape by the townsmen, but this is not the only incident for which God destroys the towns. At any rate, the men of Sodom and Gomorrah were rapists--not consensual adults in committed relationships. A similar story is told in Judges 19, but again, it isn't really applicable to homosexual relationships as we understand them today.

As far as Christianity goes: most contemporary Christians accept that Jesus came to fulfill the Law of the Old Testament. Generally, this is accepted to mean the the OT laws do not apply (hence why we can eat shellfish, wear mixed fibers, and not retire from society during our periods).

There are several New Testament verses that condemn homosexuality. Scholars generally agree that Romans 1:21-27, Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, and Jude 1:7 are either ambiguous in their meaning or refer to people engaging in pagan worship activities like prostitution and ritual sexual acts. Again, not referring to consenting adults in committed relationships.

And that's it. So forgive me if I feel no conflict whatsoever between my identities as a faithful Christian and a lesbian. And I've shockingly never caught any flak from my straight allies about being a Christian lesbian. Maybe I'm just not associating with the right straight folks?

Ooh, and I totally recommend
For The Bible Tells Me So. (Here's the actual site for it.) My mother is a fundamentalist Christian and has lots of Bible talk DVDs, so I'm thinking I'll buy this one and slip it into her collection. Maybe she'll watch it by accident.

I was stupefied by that "Angry White Man" article. I ran into another "White Male voter" article here:
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120339381585476375-sq1ZdcdDB3TcV65BAO87ujgrj8Y_20080320.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top

not as patently offensive, but still infuriating.

About the woman being charged with a crime because she had a stillbirth and also happens to be an addict. First of all, my opinion is that these laws seeking to criminalize pregnant women are BAD. VERY BAD. I think drug policy in this country is bass-ackward and should be based on harm reduction and public health policies, not punitive, fear-mongering, unscientifically proven, (stupid) policies

So, does this mean that because I am taking a medication for bipolor disorder, a class D drug for pregnancy risk, that if something goes wrong with my pregnancy either myself or my doctor could be charged for not taking me off my meds. What happens if my symptoms return and this endangers my wellbeing and therefor the child. Could I be charged then again. Either way? It seems like these laws are doing exactly that, backing women into a corner with no way or solution out. The idea of criminalizing pregnant women because they are pregnant doesn't offer any solution to any of the problems that are worth addressing such as addiction, pre and post natal care, poverty, education, etc. etc.

My husband is involved in the harm reduction movement and knows a lot about drug laws and the horrible impact of drug policies, especially on the poor and people of color. Not to mention our drug laws are unconstitutional, and arresting this woman and trying to charge her with a crime because she is an addict and was pregnant is also unconstitutional. It's a very slipery slope indeed, and I agree that this is opening the door to laws that seek to regulate our bodies further and punish us even if we don't "prepare" our baby making vessels properly prior to even becoming pregnant (anything that might deviate from the unconventional, including natural birthing, use of midwife, etc. And of course criminalizing all women of childbearing potential because they smoke, drink, tried coke in college once, drive, or did X, Y, or Z. It's criminalizing being female for being a female! Insanity. It's wrong!. Unconstitutional. Why are these states getting away with this!?

Essentially these initiatives that seek to criminalize pregnant woman are anti-choice and most definitely stem from the "anti-life" (that's pro to them) movement. Personally I think people should be able to put whatever they want into their bodies, "freedom is the default position" (to quote, I think, the drug rant blog). If no one were allowed to make mistakes or bad choices, hell, we'd ALL be in jail, why are pregnant women being singled out and having their person subjugated for the sake of a potential other.

Scientists and doctors have already debunked the myth of the crack baby and ice baby, there's no more evidence that crack causes "crack babies" than say pizza. So why is this still persisting?

My question of course is what's next? Of course if anyone suggested criminalizing men for failing to protect their potential baby making sperm, because they tried drugs, drank, or wore tight clothing, well, it just wouldn't even happen. So, why is it so hard for some people to understand that women are people??? (LOUD YELL, ARRRRRRRRGH, *ripping out hair*) And I repeat, freedom is the default position, being pregnant and an addict is not a crime.

Let's not kid ourselves here - the Bible does NOT view male homosexuality as on the same plane with eating shrimp or pork.

Yes. It does. Or else eating shrimp wouldn't have been referred to as an ABOMINATION, which is the same word used to describe homosexuality.

"Do not expose tampons to sun light or wear them in church!" HA! I'm ROTFLMAO right now from that tampon commercial thing! Good stuff.

the NYT has some great wedding gift ideas this week!! this is my favorite.

"I was stupefied by that 'Angry White Man' article. I ran into another 'White Male voter' article here:"

...and meanwhile, on another chat channel I saw a guy call himself an "angry white male" and then say he voted for Clinton because he didn't like the Republican candidates and Obama was his 2nd choice.

The video about masculinity in hip-hop is pretty freakin' awesome! I can't believe I've never seen it before.

The article about sexual harassment/assault in Toronto schools made me tear up a bit. I hate that girls (and women) can't ever feel completely safe, not even at school.

Right there with you, snobographer!

God, I get sooo irritated by constantly seeing the vulva referred to as "vagina", even on feminist blogs! WTF? And, really: isn't it about time we started (this has bugged me from the beginning) calling "The Vagina Monologues", "The Vulva Monologues"? Or, is that moregraphic? I think it's really sad that high schoolers have to go around wearing tees that say their vagina is disruptive, or whatever- but, worse: they mean their vulvas- at least I hope so!

love for the vulva and stuff-

holly e.r.

Did anyone click the link for video in the Toronto schools story??

The headline is "Girls ACCEPTING sexual assault." Not that boys are sexually assaulting girls at such high rates that girls find it NORMAL... not it's the bitches fault for "accepting" it--- WHAT?

I came across this link
http://unwantedgirlchild.blogspot.com/
A blog on selective female feticide in India... very powerful stuff....

I saw the hip-hop thing a while ago when it aired on PBS. As an anti-sexist, anti-homophobic fan of hip-hop, it's nice to see someone raise these questions and criticisms without ineffectually condemning the genre as a whole. It's also upsetting to see people like Mos Def, who is generally thought of as one of the more intelligent and conscientious hip-hop artists, shy away from the issue and laugh it off.

Re: For The Bible Tells Me So

One of Gene Robinson's daughters is a coworker of mine. The man is a very talented speaker. If any of you ever have the opportunity to go hear him give a sermon or any other sort of speaking engagement, I highly recommend that you see him.

Another article, this time about gender identity and male-to-female sex-change surgery in Iran:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7259057.stm

"...'If I didn't have to operate, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't touch God's work.'

"But as Ali, he felt he had no identity.

"He could not work with men because they sexually harassed him and made fun of him. But he could not work with women because he was not officially a woman.

"'I am Iranian. I want to live here and this society tells you: you have to be either a man or a woman'..."

LOVE the actions & events links, Ann. Please keep that up! I hope it's also something that will be expanded for the new forum. It is very useful to those of us who may not know whats's going on locally, but also for those of us who travel and can see what may be happening elsewhere. Thanks!

I am personally an atheist with the luck to be born into a family with extremely moderate religious views, but for my LGBT brothers and sisters who are trying to reconcile Christian faith (their own or that of those around them) with queer identity, there is a GREAT resource at the LGBT Christian Whosoever Magazine site that tackles all the passages frequently cited as proof of a biblical injunction against homosexual behavior:

http://www.whosoever.org/bible/

Textual scholarship suggests that these passages are often aimed specifically at temple prostitution (a practice common in the Near East at that time; the Hebrews made their non-practice of it a major dividing line between them and their neighbors) and at inhospitality towards divine messengers (this was the real offense in Sodom and Gomorrah and in at least one other similar situation).

i read that angry white male piece last week and also thought it sounded like satire.

the sad thing is that a lot of those characteristics DO apply to some section of the electorate. i usually just refer to those people as "assholes."

Re: North Carolina's billing of victims for their rape kits:

If anything goes down in North Carolina as it did in Tennessee, victims in our eastern neighbor should have one less, if minor, thing to worry about: Last year, a friend of mine -- Kelli Burton -- initiated work on a bill in Tennessee to eliminate the practice of charging victims for the kits and helped to get it passed.

Re: North Carolina's billing of victims for their rape kits:

If anything goes down in North Carolina as it did in Tennessee, victims in our eastern neighbor should have one less, if minor, thing to worry about: Last year, a friend of mine -- Kelli Burton -- initiated work on a bill in Tennessee to eliminate the practice of charging victims for the kits and helped to get it passed.

I

Thank you, thenakedcat, for the link.

Comment 2 on this page
http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1
may be of interest to the "Christians" who think homosexuality should be condemned. Better dead than quear, eh.

...and here's another one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm

"...Turkey is intent on sweeping away that 'cultural baggage' and returning to a form of Islam it claims accords with its original values and those of the Prophet.

"But this is where the revolutionary nature of the work becomes apparent. Even some sayings accepted as being genuinely spoken by Muhammad have been altered and reinterpreted.

"Prof Mehmet Gormez, a senior official in the Department of Religious Affairs and an expert on the Hadith, gives a telling example.

"'There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband's permission and they are genuine.

"'But this isn't a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet's time it simply wasn't safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons.'

"The project justifies such bold interference in the 1,400-year-old content of the Hadith by rigorous academic research.

"Prof Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said 'he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone'.

"So, he argues, it is clear what the Prophet's goal was..."

...and another one on women and changes in Islam, this time in America instead of Turkey:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7265021.stm

...and another one, this time on the Coalition of African Lesbians and its conference in Maputo:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7266646.stm

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