I think you mean "some" boys suck at logic, nonsexism. THAT is "sadly true."

Of course, Tim. But the post title is a play on the "Girls suck at math" shit, it's not meant to be taken seriously. :)

I love love love xkcd. Besides being incredibly hilarious and nerdy, he really deals with sexist issues re blogging, science and etc in such an awesome way.
Case in point: http://xkcd.com/322/

This is so awesome, and coming from xkcd, it really has the potential to make geeky guys rethink some of their assumptions.

Sorry, retract that last statement. The discussion on the xkcd forums at the moment is about how this comic is "sugar coated political correctness" that obscures the fact that Larry Summers was right, and there are "sinister" aspects to "the girl power movement." And this is coming from the cartoonist's fans.

Sadly, girls sometimes draw the same conclusion about other girls... did anyone hear this episode of This American Life? Act III made me really, really sad (woman concludes that because some girls didn't do well on her game show, maybe girls just a) aren't smart; or b) don't want to be smart).

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1229

I heard that TAL episode, because I participate in the Mystery Hunt and was interested in that part, and let me just say that they did a TERRIBLE job of representing women Mystery Hunters. Unlike some other geeky activities, the Mystery Hunt is probably close to 50% women -- including the winning teams -- but you wouldn't know it from their coverage.

I think I only heard about the game show part. Does she say how the participants were selected? Like, I'm sure a television show would never try to choose contestants on the basis of, say, appearance.

I love xkcd, he's very good at pointing out sexism in the "hard" sciences. Unfortunately, I'm sure some of his readers are the very people he's making fun of, and they just don't get it. His comics, I would have to say, are also some of the first where the scientific concept was high enough that I *didn't* get it, and I understand some physics jokes. Not like Zippy Pinhead, where it just wasn't funny. :)

the15th, it seems like most of the posters do get it, and it's mostly Izzhof or whoever the fuck he is that is just determined that women's brains evolved differently!!! And they are worse at math on average!!! Because they're different!!! And the Harvard speech wasn't that big of a deal!!! What a jackass.

The TAL episode wasn't clear about how contestants were selected, but I would assume appearance was a bigger factor than knowledge. There are so many smart high schoolers- some are attractive and some aren't- so I'm not saying it's one or the other. But it was weird that the producer seemed to be saying they couldn't find smart girls. It does make you wonder how hard they looked for them.

I did read the thread quickly because I was so disgusted...it's definitely less depressing that it was mainly just one jerk taking xkcd to task for glossing over those very real, science-proved biological differences that make girls suck at math.

I see stuff like this all the time...your mother can't drive? Then all women are bad drivers. You don't especially like Bikini Kill? Then women are bad musicians. But let's see--my car was totaled when it was crashed into by a female driver--and guess what, I still think that I and plenty of other women can drive just fine. And there are plenty of musicians out there, male and female, who absolutely suck.
And most of the math majors I've met and gotten to know a bit at my university are women. So yeah...anyone can be good or bad at anything, it's a personal thing rather than a gender thing. And people shouldn't assume for women what they wouldn't assume for men.

I agree with Unefemme about the driving stereotype.

I remember driving in the car with my dad a few years ago and he was trying to pull out of a parking lot. The traffic was moving slowly, but for the longest time no one let him into the lane. About 20 cars passed him until a female driver came by. She didn't let my dad into the lane either and he just exploded into a rant about women drivers. Nevermind that about 20 male drivers didn't let him in either, he just paid attention to her.

Whenever people talk about how women/girls suck so much more at math than men/boys because of evolution and biology and genetics, I just can't help but imagine the classic "caveman hunter" men watching a herd of large mammals and doing vector calculus. And then I chortle on the inside.

Good one, Meri. The main reason I come to this site is because it can do so much good to raise awareness about gender stereotyping. What are we telling our daughters when we tell them they're not as good at math as the boys? Obviously that they belong to a flawed gender, and that they themselves are flawed just because they are girls. Raising awareness about gender stereotyping is the principal strength of this Web site.

I am involved in efforts to eradicate suicide among young men, so I am keenly aware that gender stereotyping also hurts the boys (from boys being told mommy takes care of the baby, boys don't cry, and depicting fathers as buffoons in TV ads, etc.) It shouldn't just be a woman's issue to free everyone from the chains of gender stereotypes -- men need to get involved. Girls and math is one of the biggest ones we face.

Yes true Tim, but the post title was a play on the cartoon, as in if the same logic were used towards males everyone would be up in arms. It's commonly used with girls and no one says boo, well except for those of us who do notice it and say something. Still I didn't take that post as being sexist at all. It was pointing out the sexism in an ironic way. Sometimes you gotta make comparisons to drive the point home as in "If Chris Mathews were being racist instead of sexist he would be fired on the spot"

"and it's mostly Izzhof or whoever the fuck he is that is just determined that women's brains evolved differently!!!"

You know what? I am an engineering grad student and back when I was still taking classes, I was usually much better in math than my classmates, who were mostly guys…. I guess I didn’t evolve properly or something.

I think we're beginning to suffer from irony feedback-back-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack-ack...

Great cartoon. It so aptly shows how that kind of stereotyping works. I actually had a male friend ask me if I agreed that women are bad drivers. Even the other men present called him on that.

Gender stereotypes suck for everyone.

Yo, and what is up about the driving?

Whatever truth there may be to some stereotypes, that's simply not one of them, and it boggles me where it comes from. This is even a sexism I heard in Africa, not just this hemisphere.

If women are bad drivers, why do men pay twice as much in car insurance and cause way more accidents?

Come on.

And it's not a sexism that's bought into or perpetuated by that many women, either. I've never heard a woman asserting that women are inferior drivers. Because they all know that they are less likely to get tickets or be in accidents and they pay less insurance.

So in the face of the utter irrationality of that stereotype, try to tell me that men as a gender are more capable of mathematical analysis.

"Sorry, retract that last statement. The discussion on the xkcd forums at the moment is about how this comic is 'sugar coated political correctness' that obscures the fact that Larry Summers was right, and there are 'sinister' aspects to 'the girl power movement.' And this is coming from the cartoonist's fans."

You know how some people get into math/science/etc. because they genuinely like math/science/etc...

...some people get into math/science/etc. as a means to ends like money or parental love...

...and some other people get into math and science because they hate people and expect to need fewer people skills in those fields (and meanwhile wonder why the people they lust after won't bend over on demand)?

I got the impression that Randall Munroe (xkdc's cartoonist) is in the 1st category above. :) It's a pity that one of his comic's "fans" seems to be in the 3rd.

"Yo, and what is up about the driving?"

Fortunately, I don't hear "women are bad drivers" where I live much. Unfortunately, the local replacement for it is pretty much "we are bad drivers, and we're proud of it!" o_O

http://www.amazon.com/Boston-Drivers-Handbook-Streets-Almost/dp/B000F6Z8CE/

This is ironically the same stupid logic I try to refute when I talk about polyamorous marriage. When a heterosexual monogamous relationship fails, people don't go, "DESTROY MARRIAGE, MONOGAMY, AND HETEROSEXUALITY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK!" When a non-normative relationship fails, it's because the entire concept doesn't work. And here I am, going "Dude, relationships in general sometimes suck. Generalizations are of the devil. Do you even think about what you're saying? Is your brain connected to your mouth?"

In fourth grade, my teacher accused me of not trying hard enough with my math lessons. He said, "Now don't tell me 'Girls aren't good at math', because I know that isn't true." I was pretty pissed off, because I hadn't been saying any such thing: I was trying to tell him that I'm not good at math. Big difference.

I love this one:

http://xkcd.com/380/

If you aren't a raging Harry Potter geek you might not get it.

Lunalelle - better than him sitting by and saying, "You're right, girls aren't good at math."

I love xkcd by the way.

If you aren't a raging Harry Potter geek you might not get it.

*gasp*
The Lit-geek in me cries tears of sadness if the mighty basilisk is forgotten but for Harry Potter geekdom.

And, yeah, xkcd is one of my favorites.

Some days, I feel like I have to be a programmer forever, just to combat this stereotype.

"He said, "Now don't tell me 'Girls aren't good at math', because I know that isn't true."

My mom believed the whole girls are bad at math and boys are bad at language view and used to tell me thats why I was bad at math. It was never surmised that anxiety came from missing my first math lesson in first grade due to 'talking' where I was sent to the desks and made to put a box over my head. I always felt I had to catch up, and the teacher refused to teach me the lesson I had missed. I always had to cheat, or steal my fellow students papers.

I love xkcd, too. My mom majored in math and physics, so I never grew up hearing that women were not good at math at home. I don't remember hearing it at school either.

I love xkcd, too. My mom majored in math and physics, so I never grew up hearing that women were not good at math at home. I don't remember hearing it at school either.

I love xkcd, too. My mom majored in math and physics, so I never grew up hearing that women were not good at math at home. I don't remember hearing it at school either.

The former chairman of the math department in my school district once said to my mother, "Girls can't do math." I wish I knew the context, but it happened probably about 10 or 15 years ago now. But, yeah. The chairman of the department. And he's only "former" because he retired, voluntarily, several years later. The way my mother told it, my father practically had to hold her back from murdering the guy, but knowing my mom, she probably didn't say anything.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but as a female in engineering school, I feel that if I don't do something well (in my classes), I'll let down all of womanhood. I've tried to shake this feeling, but it's hard when sentiments like the one in this xkcd are so true! Here's another comic along the same line: http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive.php?comicid=55