there was a really disturbing article in the LA times this morning about the surge in teenage anti-choicers. you can read the article here: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-youth22jan22,1,5600743.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

the most distrubing part of the article was the part in which a teenager refers to herself as a "survivor of abortion." this, to me, was an assault on the true survivers of abortion - those women who actually managed to survive coat hanger and back alley abortions before Roe v. Wade.

I was "pro-life" in junior high too, until i started paying attention to the issues and stop eating the bullshit my teachers and parents were telling me. they'll come around.

Its funny, I go to a Catholic high school where most of the students identify as pro-life even outside the earshot of a priest or nun, but when asked further about why they feel that way, they can only dodge the question with an 'I don't know...abortion is wrong and kills babies'. Many of them also say that if a woman is raped or experiences incest the abortion is justified as she has been 'punished enough'. What worries me is that this vague and purposefully ignorant mindset is motivating the voters of the 2008 elections (where I'll finally get to raise my voice at the polls!)

I hope you're right chanticorae, and they come around fast!

Its funny, I go to a Catholic high school where most of the students identify as pro-life even outside the earshot of a priest or nun, but when asked further about why they feel that way, they can only dodge the question with an 'I don't know...abortion is wrong and kills babies'. Many of them also say that if a woman is raped or experiences incest the abortion is justified as she has been 'punished enough'. What worries me is that this vague and purposefully ignorant mindset is motivating the voters of the 2008 elections (where I'll finally get to raise my voice at the polls!)

I hope you're right chanticorae, and they come around fast!

I saw a group of them all on the Metro today too. They were proselytizing, and I bit my lip trying not to go off. It wasn't the right place or the right time, but I hope when their Christian schools stop giving them credit for taking the day off to go to the march, they will get their heads on right.

"the most distrubing part of the article was the part in which a teenager refers to herself as a 'survivor of abortion.'"

She's as much a "survivor of abortion" as a "survivor of virginity." Does she fight against the choice to stay a virgin too?

Funny. I actually became more liberal and pro-choice in junior high. I should also point out that none of the pro-life girls featured in the article lived before Roe v. Wade. I don't think they'll know how good they have it right now until their dream is achieved and it's gone.

"I resisted the urge to stop, hand them my business card, and tell them to give me a ring once they start having sex... and start realizing they want the rull range of reproductive choices."

Some of them won't realize that once they start having sex, but will realize that after their husbands talk about being tired of them giving birth every year since their weddings...

When my staunchly Baptist roommate began having sex with her boyfriend in college and realized that if she were to get pregnant, she would not make it through college, much less into her ideal singing career... well, it's funny how her opinions changed on abortion when she considered that she might need it... and she's not the only one in that boat.

Oh my gosh, those kids were ALL OVER Union Station today . . . I stopped by on my commute home to pick up a gift for a friend.

Resisting the urge to go off, I reminded myself of the girl I was at 15 when I went to the March for Life. (darkshamefulsecret) Keep putting the truth out there, and a good number will jump ship.

PS-I love the reclaiming of "Values Voter." I hate the implication that because I am pro-choice, pro-equality, and pro-social justice, I somehow lack "values" compared to those who are obsessed with my personal health care decisions.

Johanna I was in your shoes at age 15, I went to a Catholic high school and all my other friends were going to the March also (along with some of the "cool" kids, whom I later came to view as a bunc of pricks), however I was pro choice by the time I graduated

"When my staunchly Baptist roommate began having sex with her boyfriend in college and realized that if she were to get pregnant, she would not make it through college, much less into her ideal singing career..."

I can see that. I was never anti-choice but pretty against abortion in high school. My pro-choice opinions have become much stronger since having sex has become an actual possibility if I wanted to and since I've been coming on here.

And for the link in the first comment, I thought when does a teacher ever tutor a pregnant student at home??? I also don't get this belief that the world needs more and more people. Aren't these kids taught about global warming and all the people already created who could use their help?

I do think a lot of the arguments they have are true in a way and can appeal to people's emotions or else they wouldn't convince anyone. Of course it isn't the fault of a "baby" when a woman is raped. Except their arguments also seem very simplistic and always disregard the idea that a person should have control over their own body.

I've identified as a feminist since I've known what the word meant, but I was conflicted on the abortion issue for a lot of my early-adolescent opinion-forming period, for all the usual reasons, before coming down on the pro-choice side. I honestly can't say what it was that made up my mind. I'm not even entirely sure I wasn't sort of peer-pressured into it by the liberal/feminist websites and books I was reading and West Wing reruns I was watching. Because I was for comprehensive sex ed and accessible birth control and gay marriage and pretty much anything up for discussion in the way of sexual freedom, and the only thing standing in the way of my being pro-choice was the question of whether a fetal life is a human life. Not that I was convinced it was, but I was by no means convinced that it wasn't, either. And I don't know what happened to change that. I never talked about with anybody, at least not in person. I did get myself yelled at once or twice by the ardent pro-choicers on my favorite message board for asking what I now realize were questions that made me sound like a surrogate for some crazy pro-life group masquerading as a confused thirteen-year-old, but at the time all I knew was that they were putting words in my mouth about calling them murderers, supporting abstinence-only sex ed and blaming rape survivors for being pregnant, and that they wouldn't believe that I wasn't pro-life any more than I was pro-choice; I just wanted a few questions answered to help me make up my mind.

This post had a point when I started it, I swear... now that I'm thinking back to The Incident on that other site, I'm going to say it was that the very young and impressionable don't need to be bullied into thinking clearly. What they should have, in all fairness, are reasoned arguments from all sides of the issue, plus the facts -- all of the facts. The "full range of reproductive choices" is kept almost totally hidden from middle-school-age girls (and boys, for that matter); how can you expect them to know whether that's what they want? It's not that I have a problem with recruiting. It's that a middle-schooler on her way to a pro-life rally obviously has already been given a skewed perspective on the issue by people adamant about having her on their side, and being smacked down by opponents defending an ideology she hasn't even been given the opportunity to understand isn't going to clear things up any. The sexual-freedom debate in particular of all social/political issues is full to bursting with glibness and knee-jerk reactions and assumptions about the lives and attitudes of the people on the other side of the fence. "I'm sure I'll be seeing those girls' pictures on anti-choice sites in the near future, crowing about how beautiful they are and about how all the pretty girls want to deny other women the right to choose" doesn't help anybody.

I realize you didn't actually say anything to the girls. I'm just uncomfortable with reacting to their involvement in this situation as though they're the ones at fault. They're not.

misspelled--i don't really think ann meant to imply in any way that those girls were at fault at all. they don't know any better; they're just kids after all.

but it's entirely fair to hope that one day that some sort of catalyst in their lives causes them to reexamine what they've likely been taught since birth about reproduction, sexuality and personal autonomy. maybe it will happen when they start having sex, maybe when a friend gets pregnant, maybe when they are exposed to feminist lit or philosophical texts, or maybe when they are actually involved in a discussion with an older sister or a mentor. i think ann was simply wishing that she could be that catalyst, that force that causes them to think critically, not to brainwash them.

"but it's entirely fair to hope that one day that some sort of catalyst in their lives causes them to reexamine what they've likely been taught since birth about reproduction, sexuality and personal autonomy. maybe it will happen when they start having sex, maybe when a friend gets pregnant, maybe when they are exposed to feminist lit or philosophical texts, or maybe when they are actually involved in a discussion with an older sister or a mentor."

I suspect that in some cases maybe the kid just feels so young (no matter how old she is IRL) that she relates more to fetuses than to women and fertile girls, and that the catalyst will be just the passage of time...

The anti-choice movement has gotten really good at masquerading as pro-woman, and at making their message compelling to youth. Us pro-choicers need to step it up.

The anti-choice teenagers are not exclusive to Catholic schools, they're at MY public high school (in Torrance) too. *gasp*

What's even scarier is the fact that most of the anti-choice teens are girls and yes, they are also in the "slut-punishing" group.

It's so sad and I know that the more I try to say something about this to them, the more they'll just think that I'm pushy and that they're right. I do hope they get smarter when they get older, though...

I resisted the urge to stop, hand them my business card, and tell them to give me a ring once they start having sex... and start realizing they want the rull range of reproductive choices.

I read an essay by Ellen Nueborne called "Imagine My Surprise." The whole point of the essay was that we can't abandon our feminist values when we are confronted with real live people with anti-woman values. And while these girls were not confronting you, they were there, and they were going to an event sponsored by people who don't care about them. Some of the commenters here said that they were once pro-life or they knew someone who was, but when they got older and thought about the issue more, they became pro-choice. As much confidence as I have in the younger generation, we can't depend on all of them figuring things out on their own (I mean, look at Leslee Unruh). It's the job of feminists to help them figure it out now. Even if they threw out the cards you gave them, they would at least remember you, the person who actually cared about their well-being, unlike the people they were marching with today.

"The anti-choice movement has gotten really good at masquerading as pro-woman, and at making their message compelling to youth. Us pro-choicers need to step it up."

Amen. This morning, I read in a campus bulletein--at my progressive, liberal college--about a vigil beind held to light a candle for women who have had abortions, sponsored by the pro-life club.

Now, I'm all for counseling and coping, but this to me seemed to be a ploy covering what is actually a contribution to the complete and utter shaming of abortion, or viewing it as the death of a woman, instead of what could be her continuing to live her life.

I'm frustrated to read in the comments the perception of the lack of consistency that "anti-choicers" seem to have. Many do lack this consistency for life(abortion clinic bombers being the most extreme example). But there are some of us who are 'on the other side' with regard to abortion who DO strive to be consistent. I would call myself a pro-life feminist (a term I'm sure many would dispute) and in my view all life deserves protection and respect, whether that life belongs to a fetus, her mother, her sister, an immigrant (documented or not), a person in poverty, a death-row inmate, or an abortion provider. Many who are pro-life want and actively seek to create social structures that would render abortion 'less necessary' so that women would not live in a society where an unplanned pregancy is the end of an education, the interruption of a career, or a hindrance to escaping from poverty. (I KNOW -- these aren't the only reasons why women have abortions. But they are within the realm of the changeable, so that's why I pursue them).

I know I'm in the minority of feministing readers, and I'm not looking to change any minds re: legalized abortion. Obviously, the issue is infintely more complex than this comment will allow. I'd just like to point out that not all of us pro-lifers are wacky, brainwashed, and utterly ill-informed fanatics... a sterotype as unfounded as the belief that all who are pro-choice are man-hating, baby-hating, amoral, and ugly.

I hope some of you had a chance to see the Right to Life : Anti-Abortion Rally on CSPAN tonight. It was great. There was a prayer for all of the 'babies' lost in the 'abortion holocaust' and lots of anti-choice ranting ("We love babies, yes we do. We love babies, how bout you?).

Grrr. It's good to know there are some level-headed folks out there who believe in protecting women's bodies!

"Many who are pro-life want and actively seek to create social structures that would render abortion 'less necessary' so that women would not live in a society where an unplanned pregancy is the end of an education, the interruption of a career, or a hindrance to escaping from poverty."

...and/or is feeding another victim to the bullies who harassed her for her genes.

"(I KNOW -- these aren't the only reasons why women have abortions. But they are within the realm of the changeable, so that's why I pursue them)."

Hint: if your kids ever make fun of a classmate for looking "ugly," that could contribute to the girl having an abortion later. Make sure you don't let your kids do that crap, because waiting until the girl's a pregnant woman to discurage her from getting an abortion may be waiting years too late.

I really do believe this is because of the Abstience-only Bush Administration Agenda and NOT because these young people really believe abortion is wrong.

I hope a lot of them will convert when they become sexually active (might be later than usual due to such high value placed on "virginity" and "honor") and "see the light". But of course there always will be those who will remain stubborn but i'd hope they would educate themselves a little more (in the form of actual medical facts).

I personally have met some people who identify as pro-life who do know all the facts and who stand by the pro-choice crowd in helping prevent abortion through better education and such. Sadly, they are few and far between. I'd still like to see more of those than of these children who are soaked in propaganda from head to toe.

Misspelled and others, yeah, one of the reasons I didn't actually stop and talk to them is because when I was their age, I definitely wasn't pro-choice, either. Years of indoctrination at Catholic school hadn't exactly made me an ardent pro-lifer (I wasn't part of the school's Right to Life club, I didn't go to anti-abortion marches), but I avoided the subject of abortion at all costs. I recall my beliefs at that age being that I felt it was wrong, but I also had never been in that situation, and so I didn't want to say what women in that situation should do. Of course, I came to realize that that point of view is, in fact, pro-choice. I bet a lot of the super young girls I saw on their way to the march yesterday will come around to that realization, too.

Three Quick Points:

1. To echo what others have said here, I was pro-life when I was a teenager. I think the issue for me was more than just peer pressure. I grew up with fundies as a young child and the experience warped my perception of my own value and the value of women in general. You can only hear so many times as a young girl that women are a "vessel" created to be "helpmates" before you internalize the idea that women exist only to provide for others. At 15, you could not have convinced me that I was as important as a fetus. The idea was not within my frame of reference. This all by way background for my opinion that these young women reflect the level of misogyny in our society. The pro-life/anti-choice movement is the most clear cut way in which our society says that women are less valuable in and of themselves.

2. So when I saw a group of young women (and a few young men) at the Farragut Metro stop yesterday I did ask them why they were there (I'm friendly!) and when two girls asked about the disappointed look on my face I did say to them what I wish someone had said to me at 15. That women are not just vessels, we're people and we deserve just as much respect as any other life. I'm sure it did absolutely no good, but it certainly made me feel better.

3. I'd just like to point out that not all of us pro-lifers are wacky, brainwashed, and utterly ill-informed fanatics

You're right. I've met a good number of reasonable and generally kind pro-life/anti-choicers. The issue is not craziness, but rather a difference in deeply held values: Autonomy versus [potential] life. However lets be clear when you say that you respect all life, you mean you respect all life, but some lives more than others.

I think pro-life feminist is a contradiction in terms if your first goal is "make abortion illegal." Since you are a well-informed anti-choicer, you are of course aware that the current social situation is not conducive to abortion being illegal. Women do not have the full range of information about birth control options. Women do not have financially reasonable access to birth control options. Women who have babies they can't afford have no guarantee that having that child will not hurt the lives of herself and her other children. Unless we fix the equation, so that there will never be an unwanted pregnancy, abortion must remain legal. If you are pro-life in that you want to help women reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, and therefore, reduce the number of abortions, that's awesome. If you just want abortion to be illegal, then you want to deny women's rights .

Very well put, Kristen. I was raised in a conservative, fundie household as well. I was stronly pro-life until maybe sophomore or junior year in college. I shudder to think about it.

I fear that many, many girls are being raised with the attitudes you described in your first paragraph, thanks to the increasing popularily of Christian fundamentalism, mega-churches, Jesus Camp type indoctrination, etc., etc.

Many who are pro-life want and actively seek to create social structures that would render abortion 'less necessary' so that women would not live in a society where an unplanned pregancy is the end of an education, the interruption of a career, or a hindrance to escaping from poverty.

Why does making pregnancy less of a strain on women and thus abortion less necessary have to come at the expense of women's autonomy? All the progressive social change in the world isn't going to make me want to become pregnant, and I should have the option of terminating my pregnancy in the unlikely event that I do become pregnant.

I was pro-life too, pretty much right up until I started having sex. I was quite the little conservative in school, it's weird to think about it.

Actually, I haven't quite made up my mind as to whether abortion is *wrong*, but the fact that this is (for many people) such an ambiguous issue should be all the more reason to become pro-choice. I can make up my own mind, and so can everyone else. If these self-righteous little madams think abortion is wrong, then they can choose not to get one!

I went to a rally at my state capital yesterday. There was only one anti-choicer - a middle aged man who stood right by our podium and wouldn't put his sign down despite the no-sign ordinance. The cops just stood there next to him.

My NOW chapter put on a movie If These Walls Could Talk and I cannot stop thinking about it. Why would any woman ever be an anti-choicer? I remember as a teenager I was so controlled by other people that I didn't have an opinion about anything, abortion included. I suppose if someone tried to persuade me, I would likely agree with whatever.

Hours after the rally yesterday, there were young women giving fliers. I was in a rush but took one. I was assuming she was a pro-choice. But she wasn't. I wish I had asked her why is she doing this. I wish I could take her to lunch and really ask her why she wants her right be taken away. I would have told her if she doesn't agree with abortions, she shouldn't have one. But I didn't. I am angry at this stupid world.

I have a question for all of you who are not angry: How do you resolve the tension between wanting to live in an ideal world and the reality and still live a happy life? I don't want to be angry. I want to be conscious. But how do I merge the two?

How do you resolve the tension between wanting to live in an ideal world and the reality and still live a happy life?

Well, speaking for myself, its a combination of things. I feel that it's highly unlikely that we will ever live in an ideal world. People, all people, including you and me, are flawed. For me, that's reality. I don't expect people to ever be other than they are.

But I also don't blame people for being flawed. We all grow up with a history and in a world that shapes us. Some of us are *lucky* enough in our lives to have the opportunity to think [to some extent] for ourselves [even though we can never really break free of our world]. So when I see someone trapped by indoctrination...I feel badly for them rather than angry at them.

But mostly, while we can't make the world perfect we can make it a teeny tiny bit better. Even if it is just making one woman feel less blamed for her abortion we have brought the world closer to an ideal.

I agree 100% that I'd like to see a society that makes unplanned pregnancies less of a burden, and not a stumbling block to health, financial stability, etc. But I don't want to have children, period. I often feel guilt-tripped, even by my pro-choice compatriots because when I had my second abortion, I didn't "need" to have it--I'd graduated college, I was employed, I was in a stable relationship, I had health insurance (for the first time in my life!), I wasn't raped--really, it was "ideal" for me to have a child; I just didn't want to have a baby. I feel like I have no "excuse," like my decision is more morally suspect than say, a teenager's decision to have an abortion, or a single mom's.

Even if I lived in the most socially progressive environment imaginable, I still don't think I'd want to have kids.

Thanks Sarah! Maybe we should start a support group!

Its easy for some to adopt an issue that makes them seem pious and doesn’t require any real sacrifice on their own part – just sacrifices heaped upon the woman who they feel they are ‘saving’ and ‘taking down the correct path’. The anti-choice arguments are so simplistic and ignore many of the wonderful people who exist today....here because their mothers did not die or get maimed in a back alley but instead had access to safe, legal abortions in earlier pregnancies that allowed them to bring these subsequent wanted children into the world.

As a born again Christian I recall the anti-abortion position being adopted in the late 70s (not immediately after Roe as some would like to pretend). Although I never called myself pro-life, I also had a hard time calling myself pro-choice. My gut reaction was the use of someone’s body for another shouldn’t be legislated by the government, but everything I was suddenly hearing said that abortion was morally wrong. Hence I actually adopted some of the anti-choice beliefs I was exposed to at the time (e.g. a claim that collagen contained aborted fetuses, therefore I avoided products with it).

The change for me came when my dad worked at a medical building where a clinic was heavily protested. A clinic escort offered to accompany me through the protests to the building when I was trying to visit my dad for lunch. I refused the escort, but realized she had genuine concern for my welfare. It was my interaction with pro-choice people like her that helped me take my first step – that it was ‘okay’ to be pro-choice. The more I’ve learned about reproduction and having had children, the more pro-choice I’ve gotten. I do think discussions with antis are situational (I’ve met some very rabid anti-choicers where meaningful conversation just isn't possible) but interacting with them or fence sitters where possible can often help them take a second look at the issue. I recently met someone at my conservative leaning church who said that although he was personally opposed to abortion he had come around to understanding that there were good reasons for supporting abortion rights.

I wish I knew who that clinic escort was so I could thank her, she probably has no idea what her real impact was….I later became an escort myself.

Cedar: You had an unwanted pregnancy. If we live in a society that forces someone to gestate against their will, something is wrong. If there is never a time when you want a child, then all possible pregnancies are unwanted. Of course, getting an IUD or a tubal ligation might be the most sound course of action, if those are available to you. But no woman, under any circumstances, should be forced to continue a pregnancy she doesn't want. My hope is for a society that has perfect methods of birth control that everyone has free access to. The best way to solve unwanted pregnancies isn't to make it easy to be a mom (though we should definitely do that too!). We should make it easy to never have to be pregnant.

I hear you, Cedar and FemiDancer. Thankfully, I've always managed to avoid pregnancy so far, but this fear is at the back of my mind every day. I don't want children ever either and I'd really love to have an Essure sterilisation. However, it's not covered by the social security here in Belgium and most gynos are extremely unwilling to perform it on a childless woman (even though I'm 34). I think it's two sides of the same coin really, it's less about fetuses than refusing your "proper" role as a woman. I know what you feel, Cedar, it always pisses me off when even pro-choicers go on about the "right" reasons for an abortion. Not wanting to have a child is a bloody good reason in my book. We don't need "excuses" because we don't want all our life plans to go down the drain because of an unfortunate accident.

Why do they see pro-choicers as people extremely keen to "have abortions"

And for the young child who calls herself "the survivor of an abortion" well I am a miscarraige that did not happen. How much more ignorant are they going to get.

the problem with pro-lifers is they have not lived in really crowded countries.. where millions of children are born where basic amenities are hard to come by.. let them spend a year in a small town in a third world country, they will certainly cherish the space they take for granted here.

Anyhow arent these youngsters who are "adopting" fetuses too young to make important decisions. Or even know their opinions. Are they not being denied the truth?