Maybe we feminists don't have a sense of humor, but I don't find that shit funny ...rape or not.

Nah, feminists have a great sense of humor. Here's one for the TMZ guys:

How do you like your rapists?

a) shot through the head
b) castrated
c) run through a meat grinder
d) all of the above

What, they don't find that funny? I wonder why...

I contacted them through the comments link at the bottom of the page and told them they were trivializing rape, and that they should run a rape awareness campaign, apologize to their female readers, and to rape victims who were offended by the idiotic post.

A huge part of TMZ's primary audience is the male GirlsGoneWild crowd, who will blog incessantly about actresses bodies and then steadfastly deny that they are consumers of popular culture with their next breaths.

I'm really working hard to keep the site and TV show off my radar. Even the content that isn't misogynist is petty, stupid, and mean.

i don't understand--the girls in those videos aren't even famous. is tmz just filming random people now? were they outside of some nye event waiting for britney spears or something and got bored?

who let you broads on teh intranetz? You have no sense of humor! Rape is FUNNY!

Not to nit-pick but...

"This is an actual fucking poll taking from celebrity trash site TMZ."

I think you mean "taken"?

And what's it mean that the results are 69% mobile and 31% immobile? Total votes as of this writing are 12,837.

Thanks for reminding me of why I never read that site. Not only do many of the comments on that post support rape, but if you click over to the Jennifer Love Hewitt post (please don't; God forbid we give them more page hits), all the comments are about how most women peak at 16 and JLH doesn't look bad for an "older woman." Sexism AND ageism -- yee-ha!

How do you like your rapists?

a) shot through the head

Any gossip blog, no matter who runs it or how 'cool' it's supposed to be, is ultimately going to be at least a little bit misogynist. They aren't commenting on/critiqueing pop-culture (like some of my favourite feminist and progressive blogs do), they're just peddling whatever half-truths were churned out by the mainstream media on a particular day. And since female celebrities get far more negative press than male celebrities do, the mainstream media's celebrity gossip will be heavily weighted towards 'slut-shaming' and woman-hating. Because successful female actresses, singers, and models HAVE to be taken down a peg with scandals in their eyes.

How do you like your rapists?
c) run through a meat grinder

Would serve the one I know personally right for all the taxidermy on his walls.

for some reason the tag I wrote about my post being sarcastic didn't show up! yikes!

EG - absolutely hilarious!

my vote is (c) run through the meat grinder.

Where does it say that the drunk girl (mobile or immobile) has not given consent?

You are raging into the void

Relaxed_londoner, there is no such thing as an immobile drunk girl giving consent.

Also, in many (most? all?) places, even mobile drunk girls cannot legally give consent.

> there is no such thing as an immobile drunk girl giving consent

I disagree. There is such thing as drunken consent (its a gray area):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1923030,00.html

Once consent is given, its besides the point if either partner is active or passive

From the article you linked: "Currently, women are judged as being able to consent to sex if they have been drinking, as long as they have not lost consciousness through excessive consumption." (Emphasis mine.)

That sounds to me like immobility. Also, you do realize that women might give consent initially, then withdraw it? And that once consent is withdrawn, if the man does not retreat, it is considered rape?

RELAXED_LONDONER-

please never have sex with anyone. k thanks.

> That sounds to me like immobility.

@KittenFluff, this is really the key issue then. When I read 'immobile' I interpreted it as passive, this forums seems to have interpreted it as incapacitated or unconscious.

I've only read feministing for two days, but it seems to suffer from confirmation bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

No, I think we seem to be suffering from being constantly on the ass end of misogyny.

relaxed londoner

Immobile is NOT the same thing as passive

an individual can take on a passive role in sex but that does not mean that they do not move.

Things that are immobile: things that do not move at all of t heir own free will, such as passed out or dead women
: A willing consenting sex partner who will respond or move as their partner asks them would be passive (Or tells them too, depending on how dominant/submissive the couple is being). Notice they are still moving. and they are making the decision to move their body or the decision to let the partner move their body..

@PamelaV - I'm interested by your comment above as you represent to me exactly the kind of poster in these forums that I'm confused by.

Do you see yourself as the victim of some kind of universal misogyny?

Are there specific events in your life that have led to you seeing yourself as some kind of victim?

In my life I have seen very little misogyny, so to my eyes the swearing and emoting in feministings comments seems like a vast overreaction. To go further, many posters seem like the mirror or dual of that they are attacking.

All women are on the ass end of misogyny, by definition. No one is playing "victim" here.

Relaxed Londoner-
Excuse me if I am incorrect..I assumed you are a man?

Londoner, you might in the future want to peruse a blog for longer than two days before you jump into comment threads and make generalizations about regular commenters. Just a suggestion. Also, you might want to read a feminism 101--there are a lot to be found. (For instance, in the Feministing blogroll, there's Finally, A Feminism 101 Blog.)

Of course there are people who will deny any suggestion of rape or coersion unless there is an explicit sign attached... something along the lines of a lolCat "I R raping U" slogan, one can assume.

I'm trying to deconstruct it far enough to not suggest incapicitation and lack of consent, just as an exercise. I can come up with a couple readings, but I've had to snap Occam's Razor into bits in order to do it. My favorite: Maybe people prefer immobile drunk girls because the mobile ones might poke them in the eye. Maybe? No? OK. Ummm... maybe the question of mobility/immobility would come up in a non-rape context when deciding how difficult it might be to drive the girl home? Maybe?

Of course, I don't know why it has to be a drunk *girl* specifically in either case. The specificity of sex and helplessness certainly suggests 'rape' to my rational mind, but I'm really trying to engage with the alternate viewpoint!

I'd be pretty "relaxed" too, if I had the privilege of being completely oblivious to sexism and misogyny.

Can I be the 1st to call Troll Police on Londoner?

Love,
stereotypical feminist with not a funny bone in her obviously man-hating body.

> Can I be the 1st to call Troll Police on Londoner?

I am at most 10% troll, xx.

(I've had to create a new profile as it started rejecting my posts - even though I've been purely civil imho)

I'm going to sign out for now, as my arguments are not gaining traction, its also just past midnight in london..

take care

I have long been a supporter of the idea that if you are at all impaired by drugs or alcohol, you are incapable of consenting to anything-- not a marriage, not a purchase, not a contract and not sex. Any sex where one partner was impaired and the other was not, regardless of if the impaired one "gave consent," should be considered rape at the same level as having sex with a "consenting" twelve year old or a "consenting" adult with severe mental retardation.

Thus in either case, mobile or immobile, I consider this to be referring to rape.

As a victim advocate, I know that the criminal justice systems in Florida and New York (among many other states) state that an individual who is immobile, "passed out," or unconscious cannot legally give consent. Thus, sex with an individual immobilized by liquor or other toxins falls into the legal category of rape.

As for any individual who wants to throw out explanations of confirmation bias and other terms regarding methodology, I suggest you find a better source than wikipedia. Further, Feministing (which you admitted you are new to) frequently features articles and findings that highlight other perspectives and then critiques them. This poll from TMZ, with or without any Feministing critique, is filthy and promotes rape culture. Please don't point the finger at Feministing for calling attention to something that needs to be acknowledged for the garbage it is. Actually, DO point the finger--Feministing is saving women and third wave feminism through such criticism.

In my life I have seen very little misogyny, so to my eyes the swearing and emoting in feministings comments seems like a vast overreaction.

Do you not own a mirror? You should get one. They're not very expensive.

Exactly, Cara. Also, I forget where I heard this but I thought it was great. Just because you're outside with an umbrella, dry as dry can be--it doesn't mean it's not fucking raining.

CARA-

He said he was leaving an hour ago. :) Still here.

PamelaV--
Ah, yes, the usual tactic of a troll...look at this website (http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2007/12/asshole-bingo.html)
for an entertaining analysis of troll behaviour.

"if you are at all impaired by drugs or alcohol, you are incapable of consenting to anything-- not a marriage,"

When I studied business law as a part of my BA, we learned the case of one young man who had a "joke" wedding in Las Vegas who learned the hard way that this is not the case. I assume this is also why Britney Spears had an annulment as opposed to a divorce.

"And that once consent is withdrawn, if the man does not retreat, it is considered rape?"

A woman may in fact withdraw consent during sex. That is my understanding of more progressive laws and the way I like it. Some authors believe women can also realize they are raped a considerable amount of time after the fact. I also agree with them, particularly when it involves childhood abuse.

And that once consent is withdrawn, if the man does not retreat, it is considered rape?

Except if you're in Maryland. :/

UneFemme, to be fair, that woman is so infuriatingly wrongly stupid that I have said some *slightly* unfriendly things about her myself.

See, I just did it again!

I have long been a supporter of the idea that if you are at all impaired by drugs or alcohol, you are incapable of consenting to anything-- not a marriage, not a purchase, not a contract and not sex.

I can certainly see the appeal of this absolutist rhetoric, but you surely can't mean it to be taken literally. If you did, a drunk person would be unable to consent to paying cab fare home from the club (a purchase). That's just one really obvious example. Even if you wish to eliminate trivial purchases from your statement, you still run into problems when it comes to sex. Many people intentionally and willingly use alcohol or drugs fully intending to have sex once they are in an altered state. The reprehensible and criminal behavior of others should not be used as an excuse to punish those who enjoy both drinking and sex, but have done nothing wrong.

"In my life I have seen very little misogyny..."

A lot of white people don't notice racism, either.

Londoner - it's a Friday, shut the fuck up and go get a drink ...if you think that having sex with a drunk woman (and judging from the context of the poll, it's a stranger) is not rape, you need to go through a meat grinder.

Guys like you are the reason I'd turn lesbian if I were a woman ..Jesus fucking Christ.

TMZ is a piece of shit website anyhow. This just goes to show exactly how shitty is... YUCK!

I tried posting this once, but it didn't work...

TMZ is so shitty to begin with, I could have only expected this type of filth from them. Sadly, Headline News has used TMZ as a reputable source time and time again.

Yuck!

Sera--
I'm not necessarily saying I agree with BelleDame on everything either--but that particular post made me chuckle a bit.

I said it once, and I'll say it again: I find gender jokes 100% unfunny, regardless of which gender the joke is aimed at.

As for TMZ, I consider them as a totally useless site always covering totally useless junk.