Wow. This kind of stuff makes me terrified to be back in the dating pool. Whatever happened to treating people like people?

I guess I've just been lucky thus far.

Hahaha nice, Samhita. While I didn't have sex with my current boyfriend within a week - it was more like a month for us - I was DEFINITELY the one who initiated things. I completely agree with you that the idea that men want sex and women force them to jump through hoops to get it is completely ridiculous and outdated. The funny part is that if these men embraced feminism and actually dated a few feminists, they'd get the "hassle-free" sex they're looking for - AND a wonderful relationship based on mutual respect and love. Idiots...

Wait, where can I get that graphic on a shirt?

They bother dating women b/c it's a way to assert hegemonic notions of masculinity and exert power and control without any repercussions--until Feministing shows up :) (yay)

And I definitely agree, Liz M. Feminists are so often dismissed for being man hatin,' hairy legged ball breakers as the t-shirt suggests, but they choose to deny the fact that sexual interaction with feminists might actually be FUN and pleasurable (maybe even for everyone! what a concept!)

They clearly don't know what they're missing.

Yes, Akeeyu Buttmansion! I want the graphic on a shirt, too! Maybe we can make it happen when the New & Improved Feministing rolls out.

Bleh. If we're lucky, we can have a nice LOLz ~50 years from now, after we're comfortable that no one would take that article seriously. Like that Good Housekeeping article on "how to be a good wife."

I will admit to having jokingly referred to "training boys" (usually for their next relationship, not for my benefit), but the tone in that article... Ugh. So demeaning, so full of stereotypical b.s., and so very infuriating.

comfortable -> comfortably sure

You know, I absolutely hate that site, for the simple matter that they are essentially the school of misogyny for all misogynists in training. They have a very skewed view of the world, women and themselves in general.

If you go to the Top Ten articles, there are articles like, "How To Render Her Powerless," and "How To Pick Up a Woman in Less Than Five Minutes." It's almost pathetic.

In an article called, "How To Make Her Swoon," the top reason that a woman would "swoon" over a man is that he has a hot car. This site offers "advice" to men who are desperate and socially inept, and turn them from sociall awkward (otherwise nice) people into misogynist assholes ...

I really want to know how often the authors of these articles really get laid ...because I doubt it's very often at all.

Back in my less-than-self-confident days I dated morons like these guys. Now I'm married to a wonderful man who loves and respects me, and I return the favor. My only hope is that all women will hold out for the good guys like I did so that evolution will work in our favor and the bad guy gene will disappear forever. Is that too much to hope for?

I've been trying to tell my Dad for years that he's not going to get a girlfriend until he stops reading crap like this. He won't listen to me, and he still doesn't have a girlfriend. In fact, one of the guys he was reading for awhile said that men should stay away from dating "feminazis" because they all hate men and would never be happy with anything a man did.

Obviously he didn't learn anything from his experience going to a lecture by one of these guys where ALL of the women and most of the men walked out a quarter of the way through.

Yeah, that was a delightful comments thread. It strikes me "somewhat true" is a great cop-out for this sort of thing since it fudges the sexism (or so they seem to think).
In fairness, "train men like dogs" is advice for women (whether tongue in cheek or not) going back to at least the early sixties, and the examples I've seen tend to be pretty insulting. But this one is worse.
And as Samhita said, why would they even want to date women as selfish and shallow as the caricatures in this article?
Oh, because They're All Like That. Silly me.

Wait, where can I get that graphic on a shirt?

They don't have that exact design, but Sticks and Stones Clothing has several related designs.

(full disclosure: I helped design the logo)

This is what somebody wrote in the comment section of the article:

"Well girls love competition so the girl drinks more then me and she gets drunk by doing it then I take her back to my place undo her pants slide my tongue up and down her twat and then tell her she can't handle me and she says I handled that bottle better then you so i think I can handle you. Then it's on and I pound her for hours and then she wakes up the next morning late for work wondering why she is bow legged and her twat is puffy and sore. I tell her that she thought she could handle me so I let her."

I wonder if this guy realizes that he's (1) a rapist, and (2) completely pathetic, since alcohol is the only way he can get a girl. The whole article is supposed to be a joke but it's NOT, especially since it generates disgusting anecdotes like that. Seems like this article from Askmen.com is nothing more than a platform of opportunity for date rapists to share their sick accounts.

You know, with abstinence education, the article may have a point. If I'd been brainwashed into believing that if I had sex I might die, would get pregnant, would ruin my chances of future happiness, and would render myself unfit for future men, then a guy would have to be pretty nice to me before I'd consider having sex . . .

And did he seriously say that women use sex as a way to reward men for buying dinner for them? Never in my life have a I heard a woman say, "Oh, he bought me dinner, now to reward him I'll go sleep with him."

Fiery, and guys like those are the reasons we ought to step in and kick ass at a bar if we have to, to prevent shit like that from happening. If I see a guy taking home a drunk girl and suspect he has no good intentions, I am breaking a bottle over his fucking head.

Besides, anyone who enjoys sex with an unconscious woman is a fucking loser.

I had sex with my boyfriend within two weeks of dating him, and I did almost all the initiating (driving 75 miles to his place since I don't have a place of my own, wearing matching undies, kissing him first). We're together and happy (including sexually happy) more than a year later. Even before he met me, he was never lonely for more than a month, even though he used to be very overweight and is pretty nerdy (computer programmer and all). You know why? He doesn't read stupid magazines and instead respects and truly loves women.

I sincerely appreciate the 'read comments carefully, they may trigger you' advice. I used to go right for it, but I now realize I often get SO angry by what I read that I can no longer concentrate on anything (I guess if I weren't reading blogs at work, I'd never be in danger of that in the first place). I want to fire off the most well-crafted, astute reply that will make everyone change their minds, see the light, and maybe, just maybe feel two inches small at the same time. But now, when I see the warning, I do myself a favor and stay away. The internet is worse that road rage, which everyone believe occurred because of anonymity's effect of being in a car. The Internet takes that and races away with it and people get biting and belligerent and mean and somedays, I've had my fill. So thank you.

And did he seriously say that women use sex as a way to reward men for buying dinner for them?

These are always the same idiots who claim that feminism has ruined romance because now women have money and want to pay for their own dinners and suchlike. Attitudes like this are exactly why I pay my own way on the first few dates. But somehow that doesn't meet with anti-feminist approval either, even though I am obviously not trying to take advantage of teh poor menz by making them pay out their hard-earned dollars for my dining pleasure.

Also, what is with this "walking bow-legged" nonsense? Has this ever actually happened? I've had plenty of sex over the years, better sex and worse sex, and never once has a man's dick been so very big that it affects my gait the next day. Somebody's got an inflated sense of his own...inflation.

"I have, let's see, NO friends that don't have sex with a guy within the first week of dating him."

K-LO would like your friends to know that they have no self-respect.

Apparently, a woman who chooses to have sex with a man within a week of dating is doing so only because she hates herself. It has nothing -- repeat nothing -- to do with (a) liking herself, (b) liking sex and/or (c) like the guy.

ProFeministMale - I agree with you, and I think it's a great idea to watch out for you see being taken advantage of by perverse predators. And EG: you hit the nail on the head (1) what the fuck is "walking bow-legged, and (2) that person has a very inflated sense of his own inflation!

"This site offers "advice" to men who are desperate and socially inept, and turn them from sociall awkward (otherwise nice) people into misogynist assholes ..."

Which guaranties that they fail with women, become more insecure and return to the site the more nonvice. I think this site knows exactly who its audience is - lonely, desperate losers who need to blame everyone else for their problems. For boys such as this everything needs to be simplified down to "its her fault" because their too fragile to admit its their own fault they suck as human beings.

That's my opinion anyway. I think that author is banking on keeping his job by doing the best he can to make sure the boys who read the site remain single, bitter and hateful.

@ EG: too funny.
@ the article: not funny
@ the comments: REALLY not funny.

did it make anyone else a little nauseous when you realized it was written like a dog training manual? i certainly threw up in my mouth a little. that's what really took it over the edge for me, not the tired stereotypes contained therein. the fact that there are people who completely missed that scares the bejesus out of me.

"It would be fucked up and racist." And heterosexist. One major reason I don't ready any mainstream magazine/advice column because of the heteronormativity oozing from its very pores.

I think it's disgusting that this is basically a site where men can go and brag about raping women.

Does anyone think it would do any good for us all to email admin@ign.com with our concerns? They own the domain.

Or DBMS VeriSign, who actually holds the registration.

Ravenfire, it's worth trying.

What's sooo ironic about stuff like this is the fact that the characteristics the men blame on feminism are the characteristics most unlikely to be found in feminist women. The gold-digging, the mind-games re sex, the focus on status, the superficiality...
It's like, maybe if these men had dated ACTUAL feminists, they'd have a better opinion of women.

I went ahead and sent an email to VeriSign. I know when I registered my domain, my registrar informed me that they could shut me down without notice for illegal content. I would say that giving men a forum to talk about the women they've raped constitutes illegal content.

It's like, maybe if these men had dated ACTUAL feminists, they'd have a better opinion of women.

It's a catch 22. While dating a feminist woman might change their minds, without first changing their actions they'll never get to date a feminist woman.

This kind of thing just makes me so angry and I know better than to read the comments but I'm compelled to anyway.

I am quite familiar with this site, which, interestingly enough, is linked to ivillage, which caters to women. This article's author is by far the site's most virulent misgynist, and has written a charming tome all about how all women are gold diggers using their vagina to get ahead. When challenged on this thesis, his response is "well, since it bothers you, it must be true, and you're just in denial."
If you wish to get angry in general, go on their message boards. While it is not a female hate fest as much as it used to be, there are plenty of threads about "fat women who act entitled" "there are no quality women," "feminism is the root of all evil" etc.
The sad part is that there are a number of women who are happy to agree.
Sigh. Why do I lurk occasionally? I am a masochist who wants to know how a certain kind of group sees the world. Thank the goddess for Feministing!

@ EG: well, the first time i had sex with my current boyfriend, i did feel funny whenever i sat down. (but then again, i was a virgin, which might have had something to do with it.)

also, we waited five months before having sex, which i'm pretty sure means that in Askmen.com's eye, i'm a spiteful, vindictive prude. did my boyfriend want to have sex before that? sure. but was he a decent enough person to respect my desire to wait? yes.

oh, but silly me: i forgot that "respect" and "women" are mutually exclusive terms to these guys. ugh.

Why do these people bother dating women?

Because they actually hate themselves and other men even more than they hate women?

Well, sex obviously is overrated. When I need sex, I watch porn. When I date, I seek interesting talking partners, not fluid-exchange dolls and stuff.

@ ravenfire -- can you share the email address so we can all put in our 2 cents?

thanks.

Definitely! I meant to include both of them but forgot the most important one!

dbms-support@verisign.com

@EG, re. walking bowlegged: I'm here to say that it has happened, and it can last for days. Most of the pain didn't show up until the next day, although there was some horrid pain briefly during the event; I said "ow", loudly, and he pulled back. The rest of the night wasn't any fun for me, and I don't think it was fun for him either, having to pull his punches.

Any guy who is in a position to cause the kind of pain that leads to walking bowlegged, and doesn't stop causing it, is a creep. He's either pretending to himself that her cries of pain mean that she likes it, or he's got her so intimidated that she's scared to cry out in pain.

By the way, we all know it is not just men who support these myths but often both genders complicit in the same cycle, so read comments carefully. They are offensive and may trigger you!

It's sad that a lot of the men on there were saying, "That's true! My girlfriend is like that!"

Now, I get that the article was riddled with misogyny, but I have known women who treat their boyfriends like that article describes. Not EVERY woman, but there definitely are females that perpetuate those stereotypes detailed in the article. That, to me, is very sad.

I've met guys before that assume I will try to control them and take all of their money. No joke! And, they were so frustrated from previous relationships that they couldn't come to our relationship with an open mind.

Now, I'm not excusing this article, because it is vile and inexcusable. I am, however, sad that these stereotypes of women are being perpetuated. Just as "nice guys" are being overshadowed by misogynistic pricks (like Askmen readers), I'd say that women who represent equality in relationships are being overshadowed by the materialistic females who attempt to control their men.

To me, work is needed on both sides of the gender gap to foster better relationships.

"Aggression She's out of control and constantly acts up."

Taken out of context, I would think this sentence was about a child. I would never guess it was about a woman.

So what do you do when your girlfriend is "too aggressive"? Spank her? Give her a talking to?

Now, I like sex quite a bit, and probably want it as much as any guy... But what confuses me about these letters is that I also like dating for the entertainment and companionship it provides. I guess it's a big "duh" around here, but these whack jobs seem not to even like the company of women unless it's for sex, and for that reason alone, they don't deserve ever to get it without paying for it. Because they certainly don't provide any genuine companionship, friendship, or intellectual stimulation. Unless I was looking for a hook-up, that would be a big. waste. of. my. time.

"Why do these people bother dating women?"

Because they want access to vaginas, would rather marry girls than date women in order to do that, but live in settings where the former is even less of an option than the latter?

While I agree that the "get her drunk and fuck her" guy is creepy and awful and everything, I have to cop to being one of those girls who tends towards the "walking bowlegged" thing. My boyfriend's big, I'm apparently rather small, etc. That said, I wouldn't sleep with him if it didn't feel good while we're doing it, for God's sake.

Ugh. I used to get on sites like this and try to reason with these guys, but get called by your anatomy a few hundred times and you just don't have the stomach for it.

I'm always amazed that none of these guys owns a mirror. They think, for some reason, it's more noble to want a woman just for her body than it is to want a man just for his wallet. They're both sexist bullshit and they're both disrespectful and shallow. But they don't get it. They really don't get it.

Their personal ads shoudl be just like this:
"I'm an ugly, lazy, unintelligent, fat, poor and inconsiderate man seeking a gorgeous, slender, fit (but not stronger than me, or off at the gym all the time), smart (but silent), feminine (but effortlessly so), sexually available (whenever I want, but never on her schedule, and certainly not that way with other men), financially neither richer than me nor relying on my financial support (but accepting cash for sex as the implicit deal) woman.

They don't get how insane that sounds. *sigh*

werechick, check out craigslist personal ads (men seeking women) sometime. you're sadly not far off the mark.

I couldn't get past the title "Training Her."

I think it's time to adopt 5 or 6 cats.

I think it's time to adopt 5 or 6 cats.

I wouldn't wish any animals on these guys either. They just need to be alone until they figure out what respect means.

After RTFAing, I've concluded that the article is satire...but unfunny satire in very poor taste for the same reason that A Modest Proposal would be in poor taste if there were people in 18th century Ireland who wanted to eat babies.

Maybe the author is having a laugh at the expense of his readers? It wouldn't be the first time someone wrote what they didn't believe in order to put food on the table.

Check out this article on how to manipulate your girlfriend into getting breast implants.

http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_150/177_dating_advice.html

I can't have sex with someone unless I love them. That usually takes months.

Well, hell, if you all say your actual walk changes after sex sometimes, who am I to say different? I can't quite wrap my mind around it...I mean, being sore is one thing. Maybe it just doesn't happen for me. I dunno, all I can think when these guys start going on about how big they are is "Dude, my mama pushed two 9-pound babies out through her vagina. You really think your dick is going to be a problem for me?"

I think one of the reasons I resent these jerks because I associate them with those assholes on the subway whose penises are so very big that they have to sit with their legs spread wide apart, taking up three seats.

No fucking kidding EG. I get really pissed off about guys sitting butterfly-legged in crowded places because to me it reinforces the idea that they get to dominate space but women are supposed to be as tiny and unimposing as possible. Same thing with shared armrests. But I digress..

As far as the penis thing, the only time I walked funny the next day was because something had gone horribly awry. It had nothing to do with size. I've never had an experience where size really mattered either way, although one guy did try to "compliment" me on my "dick-taking abilities," but that is another story for another time.

I dislike Askmen, and didn't realize this site was all for going after this type of BS. Good. But I wish i didn't always feel like the women on this site eschew the notion of WAITING to have sex. I think it's great, it's empowering, it can be more fun (sex is always exciting when there's a little more tension--for both parties), and most importantly, it's a choice we can make. I don't understand what's so absurd abot that. I wouldn't let a guy I was dating less than a week into my car, into my apartment or into my vagina. Life seems...safer that way?

This is what the Internets are for. Members of a frustrated minority can seek each other out for support, and thoughts that might only have been whispered in the shadows are visible to the public.

These are the folks just dimly aware enough to see that something is wrong in their relationships, but who are ill-equipped for mature analysis. Inevitably, it becomes a blame-fest, as women obstinately refuse to be the cardboard cut-outs these lonely men imagine.

The more we men put down these lad mags and start listening to smart folks like you, the better off we'll be. I would like to thank all of you on behalf of all the men who give a damn about REAL change. I'd like my sons to be among the first generation of men that doesn't prescribe to this nonsense. I come here (among other feminist blogs) every day to see what new knowledge I can pass on to them.

--You have my gratitude.
J

EG: all I can think when these guys start going on about how big they are is "Dude, my mama pushed two 9-pound babies out through her vagina. You really think your dick is going to be a problem for me?"

I think one of the reasons I resent these jerks because I associate them with those assholes on the subway whose penises are so very big that they have to sit with their legs spread wide apart, taking up three seats.

Personally, I resent them because I object to the popular notion that having a penis so big that it's threatening is a good thing. I got spam in my email the other day that promised it could "Make [my] dick sick and dangerous!"

That's a fucked up attitude that reveils, I think, a lot about the people who wrote it and the people who would read it and think "Why yes! Yes I would like for my dick to be threatening!"

"I'm an ugly, lazy, unintelligent, fat, poor and inconsiderate man.."

Last time I checked, being fat or poor aren't bad things and don't need to be used in this context.

Xana, fat and poor are not bad things, but we're talking about men who judge women like consumer products (you know: Skinny, check. Free of body hair, check. Makes plenty of money, check, but the downside is she's smarter than me--do I want that tradeoff? No emotions other than slavish devotion to me, check...), and the most demanding men always seem to be the ones who have the least to offer in that respect.

YogiDanielle-

When I was in HS, I ran with a terrible crowed, and a lot of my female friends WOULD exchange sex for dates/dinner/companionship. It was out of guilt or low self-esteem, something like, "He's certainly not spending time and money on me because he likes me and thinks I'm fun to talk to." I had a friend of mine tell me something along on the lines of, "I don't like him that much, but he bought me dinner, so I gave him a blow job."

I don't know how common this is; I was telling some feminist-minded friends of mine about this gang, and their jaws dropped.

It's definitely a joke, and aimed toward young, insecure, powerless men. I'm pretty sure most normal men cease to find this stuff funny as they grow older, if they ever did.

I wonder if a young man, seeing women be successful at school, and feeling they hold a great deal of power in relationships, might have no understanding that feminism would be necessary today. That young man would find such sexist humor more entertaining than those who recognize that women face subtle but effective barriers to achievement, not to mention that they are still second-class citizens in much of the world.

This is the type of crud that some room mates of mine were into. They were stupid, underaccomplished drugged out losers. They disgusted me and I kicked em out!

Ok, so there is a site for them.

Don't go there! Don't hang out with anyone who seems to think like that! Check degrees, transcripts and criminal records!