It's so barbaric that our culture still finds rape funny.

..It almost makes me want to quit being a human.. I'm disgusted by the human race sometimes!

Every so often, I see something that is so outrageous, that I don't even know where to begin. This is one of those times.

Leave it to the "men's rights activists" to somehow imagine ways that violence against women is ok. I personally cannot wait to hear what they come up with for this one and its perpetuation of rape as a joke. Please keep us informed when it happens.

Of course rape is not funny. But this product, whether one believes it to be innocent fun or rape, is just not fucking funny. For some reason, some people seem to find shit like this, or the urinals made in a shape of a woman or anything like that, to be fucking hillarious. It's not! If you find it funny, feminism aside, you need a fucking lesson in humor.

Putting pencils in things shaped like vagina = NOT FUNNY. I don't know how else to break it down.

"Recently "men's rights activists" scoffed at the idea that we were offended by the pencil sharpener, which blogger Glenn Sacks wrote "depicts a conventional, common sex act which women enjoy."

They must deliberately miss the point. Every post about these sick things I've seen on feminsts blogs go into great detail about what the problem with it is, and these dipshits still scoff and act confused.

mens news daily and glenn are either total fucking morons, or hate women enough to ignore what they're saying in order to defend rape.

Either way, doesn't speak well of them.

Okay the comment section on glenn's website confirms that both are true -they're stupid and they hate women.

Okay, once they term cries of "help!" and "no!" they officially cross my line from not funny joke to "promoting rape." That is utterly sick.

Just when I think nothing can truly shock me anymore...
I think Cara really hit the nail on the head with her post. STOP SUPPORTING RAPISTS.
Is this at Spencer's Gifts? Like at the mall? Do they sell it in store?
This makes me want to cry a little.

What got me about this one is the implication that rape isn't a rapist sticking something in a woman's vagina against her will, but the woman being in a "bad mood" when he does it.

I can just see the rape apologists now:
It wasn't rape! It was PMS!

More minimization of rape and victim-blaming. Just what we needed.

But it seems that Jessica and many other feminists tend to see popular culture as "offensive to women" when, in reality, popular culture is far more anti-male than anti-female. This is particularly true when depicting violence--a dozen men can die in a movie or cop show and scarcely anyone blinks, but when a woman dies, it's a big deal. To pick one example, see my blog post Pirates of the Caribbean & Male Disposability.

He is so off base about this it isn't even funny. Why are men killed off en masse in cop shows and action movies Glen? Probably because the movies are made BY MEN FOR MEN.

Let's talk about Pirates of the Caribbean. It's a movie about PIRATES, being chased by the BRITISH ROYAL NAVY. Now, pardon me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there were a lot of pirate ships with a lot of women on them, and I don't think there were female soldiers in the BRN, but I could be wrong. So, given those two options, it would seem that men getting the brunt of the killing (while DOING the brunt of the killing)is going to be par for the course. There are, in THREE FILMS, a total of TWO lead female actresses: Kiera Knightly and Naomi Harris (i believe that's her name) and while they both could have been killed off, seeing as they were primarily there as love interests it would have had to be a big deal for the male protagonists that the women they loved died, much the same as it was a big deal for Knightly's character when she thought Orlando Bloom had died.

I'm sure Glen's going to complain next that hetro porn films only have attractive women and ugly men because society is against attractive men.

And as for the "common sex act women enjoy," I'm thinking Glen did deliberately ignore the hands and feet bolted down to the ground cause really, if you ENJOY it you're not going to be forced to stay in that position. And don't give me that bullshit about "where else could they but them?" They could have made SOME attempt to conceal the bolts or had them bolted in the palms and knees where it wouldn't seen at all. And let's not forget THERE IS NO HEAD and the fact that if you want any kind of sharpness you're probably going to have to shove that thing in there.

As for the "men are all bastards" knife holder. Do you notice how every single time a product like this aimed against women come up, the MRAs(c) keep going back to THAT ONE PRODUCT. Just ONE. Just the sexually ambiguous red dude (though I guess because it explicitly doesn't have breasts it MUST be male). If we stacked all the products that are anti-women against all the products that are anti-male, then who do you think would "win?"

And don't get me started about TV, where women are always being put in danger of being killed and raped in every crime procedural, and in 2005 Entertainment Weekly even did a piece on all the rampant violence against women in TV because even THEY were shocked.

This crosses so many lines. Disgusting.

You can contact the website at:

http://funideas.com/contact.html

though I don't know what good it would. Some people really don't know what they're doing and need to be informed.

What I like best about Cara's remark is that remaining silent is, for all intents and purposes, condoning rape. That's right.

Wow. I can't tell right now if I am more enraged by these awful pencil products or the people who comment on Men's Daily News. Hmmm. That's a tough call. I think I'm going to go with the MDNers. I'd like to stick a few pens in them and see what noises they make. And not because I advocate violence against all men. That knife holder is tacky and wrong. But I would enjoy hurting these men.

What got me about this one is the implication that rape isn't a rapist sticking something in a woman's vagina against her will, but the woman being in a "bad mood" when he does it.

That's what bothered me the most about this product too.

This made my physically ill the first time I looked at it...and that was before the description of it's eight charming phrases. I rarely have such a physical reaction of disgust towards offensive material. This is truly reprehensible and in no way a "fun idea." Thank you for posting it.

"Okay, once they term cries of "help!" and "no!" they officially cross my line from not funny joke to "promoting rape." That is utterly sick."

lunalelle, my sentiments exactly.

this is just entirely too awful for me to come up with a witty remark.

I just threw up a little in my mouth.

wow!I really feel sick, but also grateful. I´m new here and i´m starting to THINK about these things in a completely different way. I´m an educated person, but until yesterday I might have found this "an innocent toy". Why? you may ask yoursele. Because in my country we are SOOOO"machistas", that this would be a funny thing for almost everyone, men and woman.Yes, woman are machistas here, too.Sometimes even worse than men.Thanks to you for making me have a second thought, and see how horrible this is to us. I think what´s important is that we take a minute to consider ALL the hideous examples like this, of women being treated as toys for the fun of men only.Of course there are many out there who would think this is BAD, but the first thought would in most cases be "ha, ha, i´m going to get John one for Xmas".We NEED to start thinking about this as a bad example for all , especially teens. It´s absolutely important that we go on showing our kids ( I have four, three of them teens), that women HAVE to be respepcted, an we suffer disrespect everyday with things like this, which look innocent, and we laugh.here, in Argentina, the tv shows are a vast example of disrespect to women; we had pole dance shown on the most popular show, and in my family we talked to our children about it and decided it was NOT good and not allowed for them to watch it.but I can tell you, most families "enjoyed" it during their dinner ( another big issue: eating in front of the tv!!!)We are constantly bombarded with images of almost naked hot girls, and the best buttocks sell the most here. The worst. we are used to it,only a few people see it as what it is. treating women like shit, and why not, treating men (there are quite a lot of good guyd out there, though) as beasts.Thank you for making me think!

Recently "men's rights activists" scoffed at the idea that we were offended by the pencil sharpener, which blogger Glenn Sacks wrote "depicts a conventional, common sex act which women enjoy."

Hey, he's got a point. I bet having a pen jammed in my cunt would feel better than the inept fingerfucking of a "men's rights activist."

Recently "men's rights activists" scoffed at the idea that we were offended by the pencil sharpener, which blogger Glenn Sacks wrote "depicts a conventional, common sex act which women enjoy."

Hey, he's got a point. I bet having a pen jammed in my cunt would feel better than the inept fingerfucking of a "men's rights activist."

sorry for the double post!

Thanks to noname for the information on how to contact FunIdeas. I did, just a little while ago, and got this response from an anonymous Customer Service Rep:

"Who are you to demand anything from anyone? You are taking something entirely to literally. Women scream OH OH OH during sex all the time. Get a life, and relax a little. We are in know way condoning rape, and in no way does product encourage it. You are an idiot if you think otherwise."

Not only ignorance and misogyny, but bad spelling, to boot. Keep sending those e-mails!

Who are you to demand anything from anyone? You are taking something entirely to literally. Women scream OH OH OH during sex all the time. Get a life, and relax a little. We are in know way condoning rape, and in no way does product encourage it. You are an idiot if you think otherwise."

Love the "get a life line" however notice that he ignores all the other "bad mood" quotes Linda has, such as "ouch" "Help, Help!" and "Get out you dirty old man" Women say that a lot during sex too?

I'm sputtering in anger at my desk.

While I think it's tasteless, I don't think it promotes rape. I tell you, some women are SO paranoid over rape!

This brings so many fucked-up viewpoints to mind...

That women's default, preferred position is on her back with legs spread for a man.

That women do not have sex on their own terms, but on a man's terms - with a smile on her face.

That rape is nothing more than a woman being in a bad mood while in her natural position (legs spread for a man).

florargentina: Welcome! Thank you for sharing your experiences with machista culture.I am familiar with the concept, but it really, really helps to hear examples from someone who lives with it.

Finding feminist blogs online really helped to build my self-worth back up after I was raped and felt hopeless.
Even though products like this make me feel outraged and sad, knowing that there is a place that I can go and talk about it and not feel like I'm going to have to censor myself or be laughed at for my beliefs is a great comfort.

feministorbust: I can't believe that was the reply you got from the company. And it was anonymous? Classy. Is there a president/owner of the company that we can contact that will go over the heads of CSRs who are ignorant? (I'm assuming the president/owner isn't, which is probably a mistake.)

Alexandra,

One of the "joke" features about the figure is that it tells a man to get out and cries for help. It's making a joke out of a women's non-consent, perpetuating the idea that a woman's words of non-consent simply do not matter. How does this not promote acceptance of rape, normalization of rape, as well as rape itself?

I've been lurking on Feministing (and loving it!) for a while now. This horrible product broke my lurk and I thought you'd all like to read what Funideas replied to my recently submitted comment. Sorry in advance for the gaps.

Me:

"I'm extremely offended by the Lusty Linda Talking Pen Holder. Exactly what about rape does FunIdeas.com find humorous? As a rape survivor, I can tell
you that phrases like, "help, help," "ooow," and "get out" are what
women say during rape. This hateful product is not funny in the least. When
I saw it, I didn't laugh - I remembered being raped. You've lost me as a
customer forever."

Response:

"Im glad we lost you as a customer. Your sound like a psycho, and we prefer
not to psychos."

Nice, huh?

Is everyone else getting dismissive responses via e-mail like me and feministorbust?

The response to my (rather lengthy) complaint was a simple:

How on earth does our item possible insinuate rape?

To wish I replied:

How about when she yells "Help, help!", "Oowww" or "Get out you, you dirty old man!" when you stick a pencil in her? Last I checked, "Help" isn't exactly common pillow talk (even from women in a "bad mood").

And immediately got back:

Yea, a lot of men will be inspired to rape women from this.

I wrote back saying, um, yes, this contributes to rape culture, which contributes to rape, duh, and encouraging him to google this product and linking him to Cara's post to start him off to see what people were actually saying about this. And pointing out again how shocked I am that the job of "Customer Service" seems to be arguing with, belittling, and insulting customers rather than actually handling their complaints.

Firstly, welcome to you first time commenters--so glad to hear from you!

LizzieJH and feministorbust, those responses from the company are hilarious--and terrifyingly telling. Don't ya know that women who are offended by rape are "psycho?"

Okay. So. I DON'T support vandalism. And I'd be pretty fucking livid if someone messed with my site. That's a disclaimer. But.

If someone wants to go hack into and take down their site and put up a message that says GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU MISOGYNIST ASSHOLES . . . well, I wouldn't complain.

And of course he has to get the "last word."

I think that pencil sharpener is hilarious, we will be selling those soon now, thanks to you. Appreciate the tip.

Either he didn't bother to read her post, or he's fully aware that he's an idiot (or a rapist).

LizzieJH, that's just awful!

What is it about men that make them think a woman is a "psycho" just because she doesn't agree with what he is saying or doing?

I was recently peppered with a barrage of insults when I tried to ask for a cessation of sexist imagery on a forum I (used to) frequent, being called everything from "useless prig" to "f*cking psycho".

And then they all wonder why feminists seem to hate men so much.

Marissa, Alexandra seems to be a troll, judging from the comments s/he left on the thread about doctors refusing to provide care.

I wasn't going to comment on this tread as I didn't feel I could add anything.

But my God, judging the replies to the two people above, you can really see the mindset that produced that crappy toy.

Imagine calling some one a psycho or telling them to get a life in a professional context. Are these people still in the play ground, have they the minds of children? Do they not realise they are in the real world, were we can't resort to name calling, because we are paid to do a job right.

Well I'm not working now, Spoilt little shits...

Oh oh, get this.
My email:
"I am writing to express my disgust with your "Lusty Linda" pen holder. It is
a clear promotion of violence against women and it is NOT a funny joke. In
her "bad mood" she says: "Ow," "Help, Help!" and "Get out you, you dirty
old man." These are statements of non-consent and are making a joke out of
rape. This product perpetuates rape by making it into a joke, and rape is
NOT a joke. One in three women in the United States are sexually assaulted
in their lifetimes. These statistics are huge and frightening, a very
serious and heinous issue in every way. By perpetuating the notion that rape
is a light-hearted joke, you are promoting the acceptance of rape in our
culture. Your product promotes rape and I can see in no way how that could
possibly be perceived as funny."

The response:
"Copying and pasting the same email as all your idiotic mornic friends is
pointless."

My reply back to this jerk:
"Sorry, I composed that one on my own. Maybe the reason you are getting the "same" email is because your product truly is promoting rape and a whole lot of people recognize this and are calling you out on it."

It is ON.

Getting the cool people over at Consumerist.com involved might be a good start. They have a knack for tracking down hard-to-find executive contact information.

Based on the responses you guys reported from "customer service", I wonder if this is a prank and not a real product for sale. When I searched for it online it was listed as sold out everywhere. Maybe my expectations are too high, but I really can't believe an actual company would respond that way to customer service complaints. I would have expected them to ignore us or give a vague brushoff- "sorry you find this offensive but many of our other customers see it as harmless humor."

I'm another frequent lurker and first time commentator -- love the site!

Quote from the comments on Glenn Sacks' blog:
"... just which group this pencil sharpener is offensive to is a bit ambiguous. Just as these women can see the shapener as a degredation of women... some men could easily see it as a vindictive womens dream come true... possessing the ability to grind that pencil into saw dust isn't exactly a male friendly image."

Several people seem to be agreeing with him, which I completely don't understand. If I really hated someone that much, WHY would I consent to his penis being in my vagina? Oh wait, I wouldn't. And so it would be rape.

Heres their responce to my, very tame letter of complaint.

"We are renaming her to Rhonda Rape Victim"

I fuck you not, why always the crappy grammer?

JW, I'm not sure why Spencer's would pretend to stock a gift that didn't exist. Think of them what you will, but they are a genuine company.

I would buy that the product is no longer in production, though. And though the responses aren't what I would have expected, I don't find them to be completely off the wall for an online retailer that sells this type of shit.

If you look at the site, there is a male version of the penholder called Mr. Boss, which is the same, except it's an older guy bent over with his pants down.
And contrary to the beliefs of many MRAs, this isn't funny either.
Most of the stuff on that site in non-ironically offensive to many groups. I see racist, classist, homophobic, and sexist products just from quickly browsing.
I'm all fired up. Can we start the revolution now? Please?

I think that "customer service" really means "ask us questions about how great our products our." I noticed that the list of topic did not contain anything about "complaints," so the jerks who are responding to the e-mails are probably not accustomed to responding to a bunch of angry women over a tasteless product.

Hey, at least "Rhonda Rape Victim" would be more accurate...

I don't think a rape victim would have a smile on her face.

And here's their response to my complaint:

"We are glad your family and you will be lost as customers forever. We will be renaming the product to Rape Victim Rita to celebrate women in bad moods and those men who just want some sex."

as someone who is obsessed with sexual assault prevention (wait let me rephrase that...as a HUMAN BEING WITH A FUCKING SOUL), this literally made me gag.

i seriously feel nauseous right now.

Wow...so offensive, I'm quite insensed. By the product, by nutty trolls who come to a feminist website and tell us we're SO paranoid about rape, by the incredible responses you're getting from that company. Yukky !

florargentina -- I'm excited to hear your input. I've been to the La Plata/BA area about 10 times in the last few years, and pretty much the only thing I don't love about Argentina (besides the lack of maple syrup or marshmellows) is exactly what you're talking about. Love the people, the food, the outdoors, the nightlife, the lifestyle, the language. But I couldn't believe when I'd be watching a nice, normal talk show with a sweet middle-aged host talking to someone famous, and then there would be a woman just sitting in the background in a sequined bikini for no reason. Just sitting there, like it's the most normal thing in the world. Or guys walking hand-in-hand with their girlfriends in the plaza, and then making a loud, rude cat call at me. Or guys expecting to take you home if you dance with them in a club. And if you DO go home with them...well yikes. I'm sure you know what I mean. It's awesome that you're teaching your kids that it doesn't have to be like that. (I also hope I haven't offended you in any way by saying the things I did about your homeland.)

Actually, I'm not a troll. I'm here to set the record straight.

As others have pointed out, rape victims typically don't smile. Now if the figure had a frightened expression, THEN I could see what the fuss was about.

I think the figure is stupid myself, but I'm not so paranoid as to say that it promotes rape.

Feminist would have you believe that every single male is a potential rapist and that women don't lie. I wonder what they think about the Duke NON-rape case...?

I agree rape isn't funny--but neither are false accusations and putting people through unnecessary hell!

I just sent an email to consumerist.com detailing the product, our objections, and the responses that people have posted here from "customer service." I asked them to help us track down contact info for higher-ups in the company. Hopefully they can either help, or put it on their site, which would do a lot to publicize the issue.

I'm glad I hadn't gotten a chance to send an email yet - those customer service responses are just awful. My sympathies go out to anyone who received such ignorant vitriol - and my appreciation to those who did send an email registering offense.

Wow - anyone have a feminist troll bingo card? So far, I've got "feminists are paranoid," "feminists accuse men of rape without cause" and "DukeDukeDuke". With "feminists are fat and/or ugly," and the free space I get a bingo!

MLEmac, I also noticed that none of the subjects contained "complaints." For a store with such controversial products, this seems very confident.

I also sent a complaint but with no reply email listed. I have no desire to receive any of the garbage they've been sending in response or to allow them the satisfaction of "making a joke" at my offense.

As for Alexandra, how would you say this doesn't promote rape? It minimizes it, making a joke about it, promoting that it is "not so serious." If they spread this idea through their products, how can we expect people not to pick up on it? Sure, some won't, but the some that will are the ones who will cause future damage.

Alexandra, you are a troll. How do we know? You brought up Duke. Well, we knew before that, but now you've left us with no doubt. In any case: go away.

OH HELL, oh no they did NOT!

It's so fucking on. I'm blogging this. I'm sending 'em letters. I'm passing the word on to every decent person I know and encouraging them all to do the same. As if the egregious rape-promotion weren't enough, you DON'T treat consumer complaints like so much toilet paper. In any business, it would be bad practice and most likely that behavior alone would drive the whole company into the ground. Damn. DAMN. It's so ON.

Alexandra,

Woman typically do not have smiles on their face while being raped, this is true.
Woman also typically do not have consensual sex while calling "Ow" or "Help!"

So one possible explanation, I think for the contradiction, is that this toy minimizes rape in part by creating this confusion.

But what is your enlightened explanation that will resolve these people of any insensitivity or guilt?

Can somebody please fetch me a bucket?

There semes to be some strange thing going on - the head is sewed off (again...).

People who made things like that up, deserve a long life full off skin rash on the ass, short arms and nowhere to scratch.

I wrote this (may or may not be super-tasteful, but it felt right):

"Regarding: "Lusty Linda" the pen-holder

As someone who was trained to assist survivors of rape, who knows several rape victims, including my best friend who was brutally raped at 18 in spite of a clear "no" and "ow" , I find this product offensive.

You may not. You probably have not experienced rape. You may be aware of the concept of "flashbacks" and "psychological triggers" however, and for people (men or women) who have been raped, seeing something that reminds them of their rape can be terrifying.

What if your mother, your grandmother, or your sister had been raped while saying "no" or "ow"? Would you not then find this product disturbing, because you would actually understand how it relates to reality?

Either way, if you would defend the product by directly insulting rape victims, that in itself is disturbing. If someone discovers the identity of whoever keeps insulting women who write in complaints, and posts it online in conjunction with his responses, I'm pretty sure no woman will ever want to lay him again. Then again, maybe no woman wants to lay him now, and so he feels he has nothing to lose; maybe the only way he contact with a woman is through rape, that would at least explain his twisted perspective.

Oh yes, also I would like the name and contact information to the executives of the company. Someone will get that information whether you choose to give it to me or not, but it might ease the process a little if you cooperated with that one request."

Ok, officially speechless.

As I posted above, response to original complaint:
"We are glad your family and you will be lost as customers forever. We will be renaming the product to Rape Victim Rita to celebrate women in bad moods and those men who just want some sex."

My response:
"It seems like some of your other products are already celebrating men who just want some sex. For example, "Sue...Eeee! You've just hog tied yer very own Erotic Love Piggie! Any time you are in the mood for a roll in the mud, she'll be your sexy sow. Sometimes you just gotta go Hoggin." There's really no need to promote RAPE as well."

Customer Service Rep's response back:
"Hey, if a man wants it, chicks should give it, if not, he has the right under Muslim law to take the woman as his own.

Alla Akbar!"

What other companies/stores distribute Lusty Linda? Spencer Gifts was mentioned already. Who else is there? Let's write to them too! I'm gonna vote with my dollars. I've been a Spencer's customer for years and I know they sell a lot of blatantly misogynistic stuff and I should have stopped shopping there a long time ago--this is just beyond the pale, though. And maybe they and other retailers will respond better.

Is anyone getting customer service replies with a woman's name on them? I actually got the name of a customer service rep on my reply, and it's a female name. Either someone is pretending, or we've got a female rape apologist at customer service...

I got the same response as you, Ms. Elizabeth

Customer Service Rep's response back:
"Hey, if a man wants it, chicks should give it, if not, he has the right under Muslim law to take the woman as his own.

Alla Akbar!"

I would be upset, but now this is just becoming a "neener neener neener" for this "person". I'm not saying don't email, but it's only making "them" more bold in their assholishness. But we really are getting below the surface with this, as now they're not even bothering to hide what they really think, they can hide behind "humor" all they want, the truth is showing.

Also, nice how they went to "Muslim" law, throwing some good ole racism in there as well! I wonder what they'd say when you point out that 1) not everyone is Muslim and 2) Non-Muslim men rape as well. They're head might explode.

Just a quick addition...
I got so upset I had to call a (male) friend just to prevent me from exploding. When I told him about this obnoxious product he said something like "ah... I got something similar as a birthday present two years ago. I threw it away the minute I unwrapped it. And after that, I "asked" the misogynist asshole (HIS WORDS!!!) who gave it to me to leave my house as quickly as he can."

Thats some kind of a statement :)

You guys, on one webpage it says "5 star customer service" I'm starting to believe maybe the whole company is run my a guy out of his basement (or out of his mother's basement) or something...

It's easy enough to do online, these days...

Alexandra, how could a woman yelling "help help" while something is being inserted into her vagina be construed as anything other than rape?

How?

Seriously, HOW?

I asked the person if they were muslim. They replied "yes" I'm at a standstill here, I guess we'll just have to wait for the consumerist researchers

Alexandra,

Feminists want you to believe that all men are potential rapists and that women never lie? You are on a feminist blog with a really fucked up idea of what feminism is. How are NOT a troll? Because your description doesn't represent me.

And yes, we have heard of the Duke NON-rape case, but what does that have to do with anything here? It's as if every time someone brings up rape, there's always some asshole talking about the Duke case even though it's completely irrelevant.

Ninapendamaishi,

They also replied to my question about if they were a real company with: "No, we are only an entitiy that makes items to promote rape."

They aren't worth it.

The reply emails sound suspiciously similar to email exchanges I used to read about from a site called tshirthell.com -- honestly, I think some of their shirts are hilarious, and others cross the line. People would write in complaining about the offensive nature of the shirts, and the "customer service" reps would write back sarcastic responses that sound very similar to what this "customer service" rep is writing, and then post them on the website for people to read and laugh at. Since I have bought t-shirts from the site (again, *some* of them are actually pretty funny, although I never found many of the email exchanges all that clever), I know that it's an actual business, so... apparently, yeah, there are companies who will treat potential customers (though, to be fair, really at that point they/we aren't potential customers) that way.

I wonder if there's some way we could trick them into saying something that makes them look foolish... I think that's the best way to deal with people like this. Beat them at their own game. All they know is making fun of people -- so why should we let them have all the fun? Anyone have ideas? It would have to be really devious and clever... anything in which it's remotely obvious that we are mocking them will defeat the prank.

Now that I've thrown out the idea, off I go to ponder...

Not that it makes it any better, but it should be noted they also have a male version.

http://funideas.com/mrbosspenholder.html

Not that it makes it any better, but it should be noted they also have 2 male versions.

http://funideas.com/mrbosspenholder.html
http://funideas.com/mrbuttfacepenholder.html

sorry for the double post.

Diptutod-

Hahaha, good one. You know you're probably right.

TheLawFairy, I could believe that if they had a page where they posted email exchanges, but I'm not seeing anything on their site.

Sibylle
"I'm disgusted by the human race sometimes!"

Come on, replace human race with man! Everyone knows you want to.

a_human
"Not that it makes it any better, but it should be noted they also have 2 male versions.

http://funideas.com/mrbosspenholder.html
http://funideas.com/mrbuttfacepenholder.html
"

Well I just better start a post about condemning rape against men now, right? Why hasn't this been done already? Bit biased maybe?

*D3C*

Dazedandconfused-

no, no. If you're trying to imply that I hate men, it's simply not true. I like good PEOPLE, man or woman. I don't see in black and white, I don't see "just a man" or "just a woman".. There is more to us than that.

It's easy to just blame all of life's problems on men.. Just as it's easy for anti-feminists to blame all of life's problems on feminism.. But I'm stronger than that, and I have more sense than that. The people who make sick things that condone rape aren't worthy of my respect, man or woman.

@ dazedandconfused: when Cara and the feministing gang say:
"How many more times do we have to say it? Rape is not funny."

Yes, they mean male rape as well as female rape. Those are disgusting. You're not posting anything new here by bringing attention to "male rape" as if we'd never discussed it before. Rape is... rape. People are people. That's nothing new... at least, on this site it isn't.

So do you all also believe that pornography also promotes rape? Or anything that shows any type of penetration as promotion of rape? A simple toy does not promote rape in any way.

*D3C*

Feeding time is over buddy. Go back under the bridge.

Hi!nororo80 yo haven´t offended me at all,on the contrary, thanks for your appreciations onb my country. it IS great, as you say, but is it true that we are machistas. and i say "we" because both men and women feel like that. It´s so common to hera things like" he can do that because he´s boy"UFFFFFF!!You know, I have a 13 year-old daughter and I´ve started to talk to her quite often about the thigns she should be careful about, and about boys, and that. but i try to be careful NOT to make her feel guilty for whatever feelings she may have. i want her to have a guilty-free sex life ( I was raised by a Catholic mum for whom everything was sin, until I got pregnant at 18, that changed her view of life!)and to make herself respected, meaning " you NEVER do what you DON¨T want to". So this things really piss me! Thanks to all of you, I´ve even started to talk about women´s right at the family table. I must say that my husband is absolutly respectful of women, and he was raised like that. Anyway, I LOVE to have the possibility of talking to you here, and learning from all of you. Also, i practice my English!!!haha, thanks again.

dazedandconfused-

When it's a toy that is supposed to say "No! No! Get out of there!" Then yes it condones rape.

..I think your username explains you a lot.. Dazed and confused. Do you need an advil or a nap? :)

Why? Too hard to give an answer to such an outrageous question? That's what this post is but. Outrageous.

It is like saying locksmiths should all be ashamed of themselves because they designed keys that go in keyholes, because that somehow promotes rape.

If this is some how misogyinistic, then anything remotely related to sex must be as well. Why do you women hate sex so much?

*D3C*

Dazed, are you completely ignoring the article?

"Her "bad mood" sayings include "Ow," "Help, Help!" and "Get out you, you dirty old man.""

In real life when you're having sex and she says no, it means NO, and if you continue, then it's rape.

When I first saw the photo, I was a bit irritated but I've seen many items like this, depicting both males and females, on my various travels around the feminist and MRA websites.

Reading the article and learning about the words it speaks and so on...well as soon as I read that and saw this thread had 80 comments I did sigh a little bit. This is a horrible product but as mentioned above, it seems this could be being made on an incredibly small scale, probably not even by a real company, and internet outrage and buzz was probably exactly what the item was intended for.

From boys are stupid tshirts to "funny" books on how to castrate men over to the other side of hustler cartoons and damsel in distress movies of the week, there seems to be more and more of this extreme material coming out, I'm not sure why but I'd peg it as being opportunistic small-scale sick minded enterprisers.

I hate to mention it but rape statistics were mentioned earlier in this thread, does anyone agree with me that we, as a society, should take it upon ourselves to collect a clear and unassailable repository of crime statistics with a special emphasis on sex crimes? A lot of stats are thrown out from every angle, they cant possibly all be true, it would be good to get some sort of baseline. Sorry that was a bit OT.

No need for insults Sibylle, I thought we were civilised here.

*D3C*

Hun, I think I deserved one shot at you since you basically accused me of hating men.

Yeah, guys, that's "what this post is but." Duh!

Yah, we've been tagged all crazy skater style yo! Cuz that's how 13-year-oldzz talk and that's how they roll and shit! *W#oRd!!*

*C&har$it@y*

I'm pretty sure the only reason dazedandconfused hasn't been banned for trolling is that we can always use somebody to laugh at.

Dazed and confused, the problem with the toy isn't that it depicts penetration. The problem is that when linda is in a "bad mood" and you stick the pen in her, she says "OW!" "HELP!HELP!" and "Go away you dirty old man". In these situations Linda clearly does not want to be penetrated. What kind of person would make a PEN HOLDER that protests its penetration? Oh right, one who thinks rape is funny and that women who get raped were simply in "bad moods" and "should give it up" when guys want it.

Penetration in and of itself does not promote rape. Penetration coupled with non-consensual cries for help? How is that NOT promoting/trivializing rape?
Pornography that shows women as active participants in mutually derived sexual pleasure does not promote rape. But can you honestly say that when you see pornography in which the girls are crying out in pain and sometimes even crying that what you're looking at doesn't strikingly resemble rape? Do you really think the resemblance is unintentional? Do you really really want guys to come on your face when you're done? Do you really not think that these types of pornography trivialize and sexualize women's degredation and rape?

Dazed and confused, the problem with the toy isn't that it depicts penetration. The problem is that when linda is in a "bad mood" and you stick the pen in her, she says "OW!" "HELP!HELP!" and "Go away you dirty old man". In these situations Linda clearly does not want to be penetrated. What kind of person would make a PEN HOLDER that protests its penetration? Oh right, one who thinks rape is funny and that women who get raped were simply in "bad moods" and "should give it up" when guys want it.

Penetration in and of itself does not promote rape. Penetration coupled with non-consensual cries for help? How is that NOT promoting/trivializing rape?
Pornography that shows women as active participants in mutually derived sexual pleasure does not promote rape. But can you honestly say that when you see pornography in which the girls are crying out in pain and sometimes even crying that what you're looking at doesn't strikingly resemble rape? Do you really think the resemblance is unintentional? Do you really really want guys to come on your face when they're done? Do you really not think that these types of pornography trivialize and sexualize womens' degredation and rape?

Or, in other words, what Daniel said.

Good to see you always post useful comments Daniel. What purpose did that one serve? Make you feel more like a man pandering to all these women? Good for you.

And bubblex, if you seriously think a toy that says such things is anything more than a joke, then you mustn't be paying too much attention to the real world.

It would be the same as saying some boys action figure promotes violence. We all know it doesn't work like that. A boy playing with a toy action figure is satisfying his inquisitive mind (and for this particular toy, adults, thats right, ADULTS, are satisfying their humorous minds) and as such has no intention of killing people, and there is no proof on the planet to say otherwise.

*D3C*

D&C - if *this* does not promote rape, what does? What actually qualifies as promoting rape if this does not?

It's completely illogical to hear women protest non-consentual penetration and decide that it means we hate sex, period. Is all sex violence to you?

You talk about "the real world" as though you know fuck-all about it. In the real world, men rape women at a horrifying rate. Or does that not matter because it's only harming us women? You clearly view us as disgusting inferiors unworthy of support, as you attacked Daniel for agreeing with us on this issue. Is relating to women *that* unimaginable to you?

Sarah,
I also disagree with D&C but why would you attack him/her so vehemently? You've gotten your point across in the second paragraph, why go completely on the offensive in the 3rd?

It, in my mind, is clear he does not understand what you are trying to explain or he does understand it and dismisses it out of hand. Either way, if you viewed his posts as an attack, what good does it do to attack in return?

Again, a bit OT but it would be a shame to see an interesting thread devolve into yet another bickering fest of personal opinions and ad hominem attacks.

dazed,

a lot of boys' action figures do promote violence--it does NOT matter if they do or do not go out afterwards and kill someone. Thay they become numbed or even accepting of the violence by associating the violence with fun and/or play is *plenty enough*!

Adults rape other adults everyday. Adults are not safe from conditioning or any other social constructs. We have a responsibility to demand better of fellow adults just as we have a responsibility to raise better future adults.

dazed, seriously--you may be better off seeing if funideas is hiring for a customer service rep.

Oh, pardon me, dananddanica. For a minute I forgot that we feminists are supposed to be perfectly patient, stoic angels who never become offended or terrified or outraged when someone insists that rape jokes are "just jokes" and that a product like this does not make light of rape. The fact that rape is simply a hilarious punch-line often slips my mind.

So by saying I am to be laughed at, it somehow makes Daniel worthy in your book? I certainly did not attack him, I merely questioned his motives behind attacking me.

You also say men rape women at a horrifying rate. What you also should have said is that men are also raped(financially,morally and sexually) by women, and they are also subject to domestic violence by women(which is never taken seriously by the courts, here comes the double standards for you), and violence between men because of women is also rampant. Mention those next time you claim to be the victim.

I certainly do not view women as unworthy of support, as that is what I believe is a man's duty. However when men are frowned upon in society and the workplace, as if we are the sole contributors to rape, I find it is also a man's duty to stand up.

Relate to what men have to put up with because of these views, because 99% (I admit that