HALLELUJAHH SAMHITA. Thank you. I also find it hard for those Asian women voices that do speak out difficult to hear among large audiences. For instance the choice to "fight" for Asian[-American] rights and the "fight" for women's rights. The double minority factor is hard to overcome/integrate. So cheers for bringing it up on femininisting.com because these views rarely get the comment feedback/publicity it deserves. :]

I agree that fetishization is disgusting and degrading, but you have to leave some room for preferential sexual attraction outside of fetish. Some people, of whatever race, find Asian features attractive. Yes, it's hard to separate this from stereotypes, but just like I think dark hair and light eyes is attractive, some people like what add up to Asian features. Some people are attracted to different body types, some people are attracted to different face types. Yes, there's a bigger, more upsetting problem, but every instance of a white guy dating an Asian girl shouldn't be labeled Fetish.

Thank you for the post! It's so infuriating to hear my male friends talk about how they want to "get" with an Asian woman, as though they are commodities to be enjoyed (a.k.a - f*cked). I almost nearly suckerpunched my cousin when he told my younger brother to marry an Asian woman because "they are easier to deal with" (a.k.a "obedient").

Yet, it's not only Asian women who get stereotyped, generalized, and lumpsummed into one ethnicity group. Latinas also suffer the same bullsh*t...hell women of color in general. Speaking as a Latina, it has been extremely difficult and aggravating to deal with so many generalizations, everything from the "sexy" to the "domestic." We are either "caliente," "picante," passionate creatures with a fondness for red and salsa dancing, or overbearing, overfertile, clicking timebombs. I myself am none of the above! (More of a metalhead, goth chick with a dash of hip-hop injected in there, but that’s besides the point).

As I tell my male friends about women: We are not Skittles!!! We do not consist of different flavors!

hmm I'm wondering if this is like a american thing? I've dated more people than I can count and I've never met an asian "fetishist" or whatever. I've heard of this term but I've never known anyone like that. And I think you should be a little careful about your phrasing since i have asian friends who've dated men white,black, etc and I'm pretty damn sure they weren't the victim of this odd "fetish" thing you speak of. Calling out women for dated a certain race of men is just wrong. They can date who they wanna date, and it's not to say that all white men wanna date asian women cause of this weird stigma thing you describe,... you know they actually might happen to like the person behind the skin.

To be honest, I don't get this post since women of all different apperances are fetishsized in one way or another. My fiance has a thing for red-heads... he would say it's a "fetish".

Maybe you could dig up some history to explain why your so pissed off cause I'm confused.

As someone with several friends who are labeled as "exotic", by American standards, this post really hits home.

That article is really frustrating, because those "traits" are the stereotype, and the have a huge impact on people's lives. A co-worker of mine used to talk about how difficult dating was, because, when she first met a guy, she couldn't be sure whether he was really interested in her, or whether he was interested in her because she was Asian.

Another friend has been repeatedly harassed by people at work (customers and coworkers) because they fetishize her. People look at her and see "Asian" first, and everything else second, despite the years and years she's spent working hard developing a professional image and becoming extremely competent at what she does.

Because in reality, the Indian nerd stereotype is often used to justify unfair work conditions or low self esteem in South Asians that are not "nerdy."

And, I think, it sets people up for failure, too. When people assume that you're going to be a certain way because of fucked up stereotypes (like, for example, that you must be good at math if you're Japanese), then you're more likely to: 1. not get credit for hard work if you do show some skill in that thing, 2. not get the help you need if you're not skilled in that area, because the assumption becomes "you're not applying yourself because it's too easy" instead of "you're struggling and need help".

I'm not so sure this is correct. The focus is on the men, but I believe strongly that it's Asian women who have fetishes for white men. White men sense this, which results in a huge confidence boost for them, so they're more likely to approach Asian women. That's why it's so common to see unattractive white men with attractive Asian women. As a half-Asian guy, this is very difficult for me to accept, but I think that's the truth. My parents are, sadly, proof of this phenomenon.

To be honest, I don't get this post since women of all different apperances are fetishsized in one way or another. My fiance has a thing for red-heads... he would say it's a "fetish".

I think that there's generally a difference between saying "I find myself more attracted to red hair than blonde" and saying "I prefer Asian women to all others."

I just don't think that it's fair to compare hair color- which is a specific trait- to race, which is a lot more complicated.

And, yeah, women of all different types are fetishized- that doesn't make it okay. Racial fetishization might be an American thing, I can't say for sure, but there's definitely a fetishization of "exotic" women that happens in the United States, and it's really troubling.

This ad may get the point across for Asian women, but it's not going to quell the demand for endangered exotic pets. Gotta have those cubs! :-)

Seriously, thank you so much Samhita for talking about this subject. As an Asian woman, I can't begin to describe how annoying it is to start dating someone, only to see a picture of an old girlfriend who bears a freakish resemblance to you, and find out every girl this (white) guy has ever dated is Asian, sometimes even Southeast Asian (which I am). At this point I've confronted guys about having an Asian fetish and usually gotten responses along the lines of, "Well I hate it when people call it a fetish," and some gibber gabber that's basically racist stereotypes of Asian women, being demure, submissive, etc., which I'm expected to see as a compliment. I usually find this laughable because I am so totally the opposite. However, this doesn't take away the frustration of realizing someone expressed interest not only purely because I fit a physical stereotype, but worse yet, because of the racist presumptions they make based on my race. I agree with posters who say there is some room for physical preferences without them being fetishes, per se, but there is a definite difference between fetishizing a woman because of her race and the racist, misogynistic stereotypes you attach to it, and merely liking some physical traits more than others. I'm happy I'm now in a relationship with my awesome Latino boyfriend who appreciates the richness of my racial heritage without using it to put me in a box.

Oh Samhita, this is so true.

Everyone always thinks I'm asian even though I'm latina, so when I was at a club this white guy asked me to dance and asked whether I was filipino, when I told him I was not he said something about getting a drink and then disappeared. I didn't see him for the rest of the night until I was leaving and spotted him with an asian girl on his arm.

I also know a guy who constantly fetishises asian woman and it seriously freaks me out. But he's pretty sexist all round anyway.

About that comparison to preferring redheads...
First, when people say that they prefer an entire race of people they are often making generalizations about the body type of that entire race of people.
Secondly, when people say they prefer an entire race of people they are often making stereotypical generalizations about the personality type that is "supposed to" accompany being that race.

It's ok for a guy to say "I like women who are submissive and thin" (though I still think he might have problems and might want to examine why he wants women who are submissive and thin--such stereotypical ideas of femininity). It's not ok for someone to use "Asian" as a kind of short-hand for "submissive and thin."

Oh Samhita, this is so true.

Everyone always thinks I'm asian even though I'm latina, so when I was at a club this white guy asked me to dance and asked whether I was filipino, when I told him I was not he said something about getting a drink and then disappeared. I didn't see him for the rest of the night until I was leaving and spotted him with an asian girl on his arm.

I also know a guy who constantly fetishises asian woman and it seriously freaks me out. But he's pretty sexist all round anyway.

Shells:

It's also annoying when I meet an Asian woman and find out she has dated only white men. Isn't this also troubling? Maybe it's the result of Asian women stereotyping Asian men and white men?

Great post.

While living in Japan I saw a lot of this fetishization going on with Western men towards Japanese women. All the stereotypes: they're more obedient, cleaner than white women, quieter, etc. It also happened that some Japanese wanted to date foreigners because it was seen by some as a status symbol. I would go on but I want to make this point...

macandcheese: I have to disagree and am wary when an argument is turned around to place responsibility on the women. Asian women, whether they are dating "unattractive" white men or not, are not responsible for the porn, stereotypes, and other degrading ways that they are portrayed by the media and porn industry.

I was hanging out once with a group of acquaintances, and this guy said that he liked dating Asian women "because of their slanted vaginas."

I kid you not.

Oh, the shit that guy took from us for a very long time.

"Asian women, whether they are dating 'unattractive' white men or not, are not responsible for the porn, stereotypes, and other degrading ways that they are portrayed by the media and porn industry."

No disagreement there. Just wanted to air my feeling that part of this is caused by internalized racism. But I would never blame women for their objectification in our culture.

Wah! I was just thinking about this moments ago! And I click open my internet browser, and here is the thing I was thinking about just moments ago! Okay, sorry, coincidences really excite me. Moments ago, when I was thinking about this, I came to the conclusion that the whole "Asian fetish" thing is very racist and sexist if you consider the fact that a fetish is an attraction to an inanimate object that is not sexual by nature. Clearly, there's something wrong with thinking of Asian women as asexual, inanimate objects, given that they're people and all. At the same time, I agree with Jaime that it's not fair to accuse any white man dating an Asian woman of being racist. If anything, that would be counter-productive. People of the same race date all the time without accusations of racism, so it would actually be pretty harmful to assume that a white guy would only date an Asian woman if he was a racist, sexist moron.

macandcheese: No problem, thanks for the clarification.

I thought this was telling. http://www.slate.com/id/2177637/

[T]here are a few reasons some dudes prefer Asian women, and it starts with the fact that they are very rarely unattractive, and they are even more rarely stupid, and they are even more rarely than that fat.

This is a genuine question: Is anyone saying that we should accuse every white man who is dating an Asian woman of fetishism?

A couple of commenters have brought up that we shouldn't do this and I was just wondering where they had seen this.

macandcheese: I don't want race to be a reason someone does or doesn't date me, and I don't make race an issue in how I choose who I date. My current partner, in fact, isn't white. I don't appreciate your implication that I hypocritically perpetuate the same stereotypes I try to dismantle. Kthanks.

But nobody here has claimed that all white men dating Asian women are racist--that's a straw man. This post is specifically about the fetishization of Asian women by white men.

Fetishization goes hand in hand with bigotry, because it treats the person being fetishized/exoticized as if their background makes them less individual, less human--they're simply homegenized into a sea of stereotypes Asian women. I date a guy once who completely exoticized/fetishized my Jewishness--right up until he introduced me to his grandfather, when he lied right in front of my face about me being Jewish. That was because he didn't consider my Jewishness part of my humanity, but something that was cool to play with, but ultimately something disposable.

I'm a white girl living in Japan, and I see this BS all the time. A lot of the foreigners here are obsessed with Japanese girls to the point where they readily make fun of, put down, and generally disparage white girls. I've heard their comments run from "white girls aren't feminine" all way to "white girls vaginas are huge." As you can imagine, I avoid the expat bars whenever possible, just to avoid these guys. My guess is, these guys are scared shitless of strong women, and the only way they can feel better about themselves is to put white women down. At any rate, the guys who make the mistake of thinking Japanese women are weak or submissive soon find out how wrong they are. If their relationship makes it past the dating stage, they realize there is much, much more to them than what they see on the surface. All my friends who are married to Japanese women jokingly say they are afraid of their wives- and one of them is a ex-skinhead biker dude! LOL! At any rate, no skin off my nose- I'm quite glad that type stays away from me. My current boyfriend is Japanese, and he's a feminist! :)

seriously, i've never understood the "azn women r always hawt" line--i live in southern california. there are more asians here than i can shake a stick at and believe me, i see ugly, fat, loud asian women ALL THE TIME. seriously, i feel like people who internalize this myth base it on lucy liu and those girls who follow around gwen stefani.

Great post, Samhita, thanks for writing about this.

blondein_tokyo: I hear you. I always avoided the "gaijin bars" because it was filled with men like that or military guys looking for a little fun before heading back to the base.

It always turned into a hate of other women of other races: "White women are fat. Black women are too loud." Before I went over they warned me my self-esteem might take a hit, and it did in a few ways. But I still met an amazing Japanese man and formed real relationships and stayed away from the negative aspects of the expat scene.

"the reliance on still perpetuating the same myths that fetishizers use to justify their fetish, well that is not cool."

Besides, stuff like the "East Asians are better women because they have straight hair and smooth skin" thing just echoes the "you're worse because you have curly hair" or "you're worse because you have hairy skin" crap black women and Middle Eastern women face.

"I mean I am South Asian and you will not hear me say, 'oh we are nerdy, tee hee, that is a positive stereotype, so it is OK!' Because in reality, the Indian nerd stereotype is often used to justify unfair work conditions or low self esteem in South Asians that are not 'nerdy.'"

...and the "South Asians are smarter" stereotype is also a "non-South-Asians are stupider" stereotype.

"Even when people have the best of intentions with comments like, 'you can't help who you are attracted to,' or 'Asian women are hot,' you begin to realize that often people are just trying to explain away their own or someone else's racism."

Exactly. "I'm just more attracted to East Asian women than to whites or to men" is one thing, "I like East Asian women because whites are loud and men are smelly" is totally another.

"The thing is, it is usually one sided and that being white men, into Asian chicks."

For that matter, sometimes it's racist even when it's a same-race preference. Is "WM/AF couples suck because we shouldn't let white men steal our females" coming from an Asian man any better than "AM/AF couples suck because those Asian men are domineering wimps" coming from a white man?

"As a half-Asian guy, this is very difficult for me to accept, but I think that's the truth. My parents are, sadly, proof of this phenomenon."

I hope they didn't expect their offspring to automatically be an Asian girl or a white boy then push anti-Asian-guys stereotypes on you.

It's interesting for me because I am half asian and half white and identify more with white culture. I see myself as equal or the same as most white girls, but it weirds me out that others do not see me in the same way. For instance today on another forum, someone said that I could not be pretty because I am asian. The stupidity of that comment aside, it's weird because I don't think of myself as asian, yet others do. So now I'm paranoid about men fetishizing me.

Sux2bme.

Hoo boy, my favorite subject. What's a socially-conscious white boy with bamboo fevah to do? (beyond not bandying about ephitets, of course) Don't worry, ladies; because I feel the culture has salted the field and shit the bed before I came into your life, there's no way I'll make a move on you if you're Asian, because I positively scream "asian girls are sooo Exotic/erotic/submissive". Fat, bespectacled, obsessed with asian pop culture--to look at me I'm one step from mail-order--Jesus God, How would I begin to counter that. I'd be fuckin' impatient, to put it lightly, with anyone who was attracted to *me* for being perceived as docile and obedient. The alternative of course is to seek out asian women who are into that--far, far worse. Like I'd be posting here if I didn't have a problem with that. I'm not just getting my Butterfly on, honest.

Great post!

It reminds me of a line in "Wedding Crashers" where Owen Wilson refers to some hook-up as "my first asian" as if it were some huge milestone. It seems that some men treat sex with an Asian woman like a second kind of virginity.

The same thing happens with black men. The stereotype that all black men are well endowed puts a lot of pressure on a number of my friends, because there is this automatic assumption that they are good in bed.

My ex-boyfriend, who I dated for three years was black. I can't begin to tell you all of the stupid questions I'd get asked. "How big is he?" "How long can he go?" "does he have to use magnums?" We actually didn't even sleep together until we had been dating for two years. We were both virgins before that.

It's frustrating when people want to date a certain race because of the assumptions made about that race, but I agree that that doesn't mean every person dating someone of another race is doing so because of the stereotypes.

Seriously. The last guy I dated would not shut up about how excited he was to be with a half-Asian woman. He would bring it up all the time at the most random moments. When he said something about how he couldn't wait to get a "real Asian girl next time," well it didn't last long after that.

I also identify more with white culture so when people find out that I am half Asian and start attributing all sorts of characteristics to me, sometimes I am so shocked and confused I don't even know how to react.

I know that nobody has accused all interracial couples of dating each other because of the stereotypes, but that is a real problem that couples do have to deal with, and I think that most of the comments mentioning that are just an expansion of the original post.

Does every white man who dates an Asian woman have a fetish? Of course not! That idea just indicates that there is no reason a man would date an Asian woman except for her race, which further degrades Asian women.
However, do lots of American guys fetishize Asian women? Yes. Big time. I'm sure lots of people here saw the link posted on feministing to a site that encourages American men to go to Asian and marry women there.
It's unfortunate how ingrained these images of Asian women as lithe, submissive sex dolls are in our culture. Just look at a dozen magazines and compare them to a dozen porn sites. You'll be lucky to find one Asian model in any fashion or even mainstream magazine doing anything, even advertising soap, but the "Asian" section on most user uploaded porn sites is huge. More and more people associate young Asian women exclusively with pornography or the sexy girlfriend, because that is the only role they play in the American media.

Don't believe me?
A good friend of mine was told that although she was "hot" a guy would "never" date her because "Asian girls remind me of pornos." Why don't women of all colors remind him of pornography? After all, white women still make up the majority of most porn actresses, even with the big "Asian market." Probably because he sees white and black women portrayed in at least SOME other way on a regular basis.
It's disgusting, but it's a cultural problem, not just the fault of those creepy idiots who learn how to say "hello" in Japanese and then say it to Cambodian-American girls in hopes of getting some...assholes.

Does every white man who dates an Asian woman have a fetish? Of course not! That idea just indicates that there is no reason a man would date an Asian woman except for her race, which further degrades Asian women.
However, do lots of American guys fetishize Asian women? Yes. Big time. I'm sure lots of people here saw the link posted on feministing to a site that encourages American men to go to Asian and marry women there.
It's unfortunate how ingrained these images of Asian women as lithe, submissive sex dolls are in our culture. Just look at a dozen magazines and compare them to a dozen porn sites. You'll be lucky to find one Asian model in any fashion or even mainstream magazine doing anything, even advertising soap, but the "Asian" section on most user uploaded porn sites is huge. More and more people associate young Asian women exclusively with pornography or the sexy girlfriend, because that is the only role they play in the American media.

Don't believe me?
A good friend of mine was told that although she was "hot" a guy would "never" date her because "Asian girls remind me of pornos." Why don't women of all colors remind him of pornography? After all, white women still make up the majority of most porn actresses, even with the big "Asian market." Probably because he sees white and black women portrayed in at least SOME other way on a regular basis.
It's disgusting, but it's a cultural problem, not just the fault of those creepy idiots who learn how to say "hello" in Japanese and then say it to Cambodian-American girls in hopes of getting some...assholes.

For what it's worth, the Jezebel writer who posted the article got called out for her comments about skin, hotness pretty quickly by commenters, and the resulting discussion was pretty thought-provoking.

FWIW, I've never known a non-Asian guy who just, oops, happened to only date Asian women. All of them read manga, watched all-Asian porn, and endlessly sought out Asian women so they could try to guess what country they were from (to the Asian girl's delight!)

This reminds of a conversation I had with my brother the other day. We were reminiscing about the Native American fetishization (not in a sexual way, more like a culture-appropriating way) that a lot of my generation's parents and their friends went through in the 1970s and early 1980s. It always grossed me out, it just seemed like racism with a friendlier face. Native Americans are just PEOPLE, with human faults and shortcomings, not some faceless downtrodden mass of Noble Savages.

Among other things, I'm appalled by the ignorance of it all. Asia is a huge continent, with diverse people with different histories and billions of people -- lumping all of that in and slapping labels on it is flat insulting.

I tend to see these things through the lens of my own experiences, which is of course a very limiting perspective -- but in the tiny corner of the world where my father came from, there are bunches of different cultures and migrations and histories. There are seven Celtic nations in Western Europe, five in the Atlantic Isles, let alone the diaspora populations -- so if the cultures of one little archipelago off the European coast are distinct and deserve to be treated with respect and not conflated into one big mass, so too the diverse peoples of every region. Just because many Americans don't know enough about the histories or cultures of Asia to distinguish them doesn't excuse ignoring them (and, of course, some of the same people will passionately argue for Tibetan freedom, oblivious to the point that recognizong the uniqueness of the various peoples of the Tibetan plateau ought to give rise to the recognition that every other part of Asia has its own history and cultures as well).

It has somehow become OK to have racist sexual preferences, even in progressive circles. The thing is, it is usually one sided and that being white men, into Asian chicks.

I wasn't aware that somebody could have "racist" sexual preferences. Maybe YOU can consciously control who you are physically attracted to, but I would bet that the vast majority of people cannot. The fact is, heterosexual male sexual attraction is driven by the physical characteristics of women, and a subset of men like the appearance of Asian women, just as a subset of men like the appearance of blonde women with large breasts. Would you say the guys who like large breasted white blonde women have "racist sexual preferences"? Do you think that homosexual males have "sexist" sexual preferences because they prefer men and don't give women a fair shake?

Furthermore, the attraction cannot be simply "one sided and that being white men into Asian chicks". For the attraction to be one-sided, you must be presuming that the Asian women were FORCED into relationships with the white men attracted to them. Nobody held a gun to their heads and said they had to date the white men who found them attractive.

But for the rest of us, that are sick and tired of white men being into us because we are "exotic," well this shit is just tired. I am not your fetish, I am not your fantasy and, yeah, I might be good in bed, but my race is not why.

White men are attracted to me! Boo Hoo! People in other parts of the world are being ETHNICALLY CLEANSED due to racial stereotypes, and you're complaining about white men finding you attractive. Cry me a f*cking river. Guess what--no matter what your race or background, people will unjustly attribute characteristics to you based on cultural stereotypes or on the features of people they have met who look similar to you. Everybody faces stereotypes, and considering the enormous obstacles of racial discrimination that America is in the process of overcoming (and the discrimination against the LGBT community that is still rampant), your complaint seems utterly trivial.

badnfluence, nobody here is interested in the "your oppression is not as important as what happened to someone else" game. Go play "Oppression Olympics" somewhere else.

Well, it's all just Bernard Boursicot and M. Butterfly isn't it? The idea that some amazing, lovely, otherwordly "creature" who has all these odd sexual preferences is just waiting to be your devoted geisha-girl for life. I highly recommend reading David Henry Hwang's notes for the play, because they're very revealing.

And, as an aside, this is why I fucking HATE Gwen Stefani walking around with her "Harajuku Girls" like exotic pets, women she's freaking renamed after her clothing line. That's a "fetish" too and it's disgusting.

badnfluence, you seem to misunderstand how fetishism works. The issue is not "white men are attracted to me." The issue is "white men are attracted to their racist fantasies of what all Asian women are like, and project those fantasies onto me."

Critiquing the treatment of women as two-dimensional sexual objects is a long-standing tradition in feminism.

Thomas, EG, well said old chaps, I couldn't have put it better myself. (I've decided today is Talk-Like-British-Aristocracy-Day)

Angie - Totally! I remember when No Doubt were a cool band, what the hell happened to Gwen?!

"Would you say the guys who like large breasted white blonde women have "racist sexual preferences"?"

Bullshit argument idiots always use to "prove" there's nothing wrong with Asian women being objectified. No, men who like blond women aren't being racist. Neither are men who happen to like, say, dark hair and dark, almond shaped eyes, and dates a lot of Asian women with those features.
Men who refuse to date women who aren't white? Racist. A black man who intentionally seeks out blond white women for a reason other than the fact that he thinks they're pretty? Racist. A woman who dates black men because they're "studs?" Racist.
Men who purposely seek out Asian women and describes them as "MY ASIAN GIRLFRIEND! YES!!"? Probably racists.
Lots of men of any race dating an Asian woman will describe their girlfriend as smart, pretty, fun, nice, etc and might mention her looks and features without objectifying her. Lots of other men will say they want to date "an Asian chick." not a pretty Asian woman, or a smart Asian woman, or one particular Asian woman, just any "Asian chick." There's an assumption all Asian "chicks" come with the same built in features.
oh, and a man who says he just wants to date a blond, any blond, would also be nasty and objectifying blonds.

This topic always makes me slightly uncomfortable. I think this post is right on the money, and the obsession with "obedient" women with "tight pussies" is downright disgusting.

BUT I have a mini-fetish for Asian women myself. I really admire Thai and Japanese culture (not that they're not sexist as hell but I really like some aspects).

It's funny, what I love about Japanese women is actually their strength of character. Sure, the stereotype of being less in your face than western women is generally true but that's true of both men and women. It also seems to me that Japanese women are able to be more overtly feminine etc without being seen as weak of body or spirit. I really admire that south-east Asian women tend to be very strong for their size (and in general) and Japanese women especially build muscle quickly.

My fetish (I can't really think of another word though "fetish" has deeply creepy conotations) for Thai culture comes from practicing (obsessively) Muay Thai and spending a month training in Bangkok. I felt more at home there than I ever have anywhere else.

I find Thai, Japanese and Chinese women very sexy (no, Thai women don't look much like Japanese or Chinese women but there you are) and one of the few serious crushes I've had on a women (I'm often sexually attracted to women but seldom have real crushes) was a Chinese woman who works at a clothing store and I'm SURE flirted back. *SIGH*

I'm not sure what my point is, but I really don't want to think that I'm making assumptions about an individual by finding a "look" attractive. I probably am I guess :\

What I've found particularly interesting lately is how this is reflected in mainstream advertising. From banks to home decorating to other products, it's perfectly natural to see WM/AF couples in prime time advertising. When is the last time you've seen pretty much any other race combination in a set of people presumably "doing it?"

blondein_tokyo, xena, I have a nice Japanese fella myself and he happens to be the most considerate man I've ever dated (not that I'm making any generalizations), and adorable to boot. Though I have a few male friends in Japan teaching, it sounds like the majority of that scene sounds awful. When they get to the point that they feel entitled to insult women of other races, that must indicate some intense self-hatred.

My boyfriend also has some "white-guy-who-happen-to-date-mostly-Asian-girl" friends, but they seem pretty ok in general. I just rather enjoy the nerdy social mini-feuds they have with each other due to the competition among themselves when they are trying to woo the same Asian girl.

There's not a whole lot you can do about the fetish thing. If these guys are in a bar insulting other women while pursuing Asian women, at least that's one less damaged group you have to deal with. Unfortunately this makes it very difficult for my own Asian female friends sometimes, but they tend to be good judges of character. No matter what race or social group you identify with, you are it's good to keep the bullshit radar for fetishists of any kind.

You guys should check out this site:
http://www.bigbadchinesemama.com/home.html

Love it.

[i]It's funny, what I love about Japanese women is actually their strength of character. Sure, the stereotype of being less in your face than western women is generally true but that's true of both men and women. It also seems to me that Japanese women are able to be more overtly feminine etc without being seen as weak of body or spirit. I really admire that south-east Asian women tend to be very strong for their size (and in general) and Japanese women especially build muscle quickly.[/i]

Fenriswolf:
Though you are obviously more respectful of Asian women, and not outrightly objectifying them, you are still perpetuation stereotypes. You know some Japanese women with these qualities, and you are attributing these personality traits to the whole population.

Stern disapproval! Anecdote. Personal preference. Hearsay. Something vaguely sociological I picked up in Reader's Digest. Severe apology.

I grew up in Tokyo, but never noticed the Asian fetish stuff, but that could just be because I wasn't really looking at sexual dynamics when I was younger...

But now I'm back in Asia (in Shanghai) and the number of old-ass white men/young Chinese girls couples I've seen is kind of grossing me out, and I've gotten to the point where I'm automatically suspicious of every white guy that I see and think that they just came here to find "hot Asian chicks" which may very well not be the case for every guy, but...seems to be the case for a lot of them. I know of a couple where the woman is 24 and the man is a 70-year old Australian man (so it's not just American guys) and he is constantly screaming at her. It just makes me want to throw up.

It also makes me wonder (although I'm not Asian) how many of those guys I made out with in college just saw me as a novelty (I'm black) and how many of them just made out with me for genuine reasons. (Genuine reason being that they were horny and wanted to make out, or something of that nature.)

Amen to everything that's already been said.

As someone of South Asian descent living in East Asia (Hong Kong) - this rings very true. There is an exceptional amount of older expat (read: white) men - from the UK, Aus, NZ, US etc - who are with younger SE Asian women. There have even been comments in the local paper (The South China Morning post) about Asian women's femininity, their grace and their humility as opposed to their white counterparts who have "been ruined by Western feminism". Yes, you read that right, someone actually wrote in to the paper, and said those exact words. The person who wrote the Jezebel article claims she lived in HK but "got laid once" this might be to do with the fact that she isn't what Expat men consider as "Local Chinese". There is definitely the view that local Chinese women are sexier, more feminine and more agreeable than their foreign born counterparts, who are louder and more aggressive because of their exposure to the West.

I brought up my own ethnicity to say there are also different levels of fetishisms – I don’t think I’ve ever been hit on by expat men here. Because in HK South Asians are lower down the rung – so to speak – than women of Filipino, Thai, Indonesian and Chinese descent. There are plenty of blogs out there written by expat men who talk about their sole attraction to Asian women, because they find white women just so darned unattractive.

People don't tend to discuss their internalized racism in polite company. Nor do they discuss sex in polite company (at least, not more than a passing reference). It's no surprise to me that the merging of the two is rarely discussed outside of lowest-common-denominator circles.

Addendum: I meant to add that what with internalized racism and sex both being considered "bad" (well, we're still very conflicted about the latter), that may be one reason for the merging of the two.

Long day. My thoughts are not very cohesive.

Perhaps I'm only trying to excuse my own exotification, but I like ginger and black hair, pale skin, natural color, green eyes, and almond shaped eyes in a woman. Does the fact that some of the things I find attractive tend to be on the bodies of Chinese women that I interacted with a great deal during high school mean that I'm racist? I'm not entirely sure that it does, anymore than the fact that I think Rachel Weisz is hot means that I'm objectifying. I'm a lesbian - I find some women sexually attractive. I have types. It happens.

Then again, I'm of a mind that a little objectification doesn't hurt anyone and is perfectly natural, and is not just men objectifying women. As usual, it's excess that can be the real issue. I do, however, realize that a lot of people disagree with me. I'm something of a hedonist (to my chagrin, really).

I have had a preference for Asian women for many years, though I find women of all different backgrounds attractive. My wife is from the Philippines. Does that make me an Asian fetishist? I don't think so, though maybe some here will disagree. I don't hold to stereotypes that Asian women are horny or submissive or whatever the other stereotypes are. My wife is more than my wife, she is my best friend. And, she is older than me.

That being said, I do get what you are saying Samhita. When my wife and kids and I were in the Philippines this past summer on vacation and to visit her family, we stayed for a couple of days at the Bohol Beach Club. I observed at least several couples that consisted of a much older white man and a younger Filipina girl. The worst was an American man who was not that old, maybe in his 40's, but he was very overweight and he went around with this tiny Filipina who looked no older than 18.

I talked to my wife's sister about it and she said that around there such couple are referred to as "the gecko and the whale". It was really pathetic to see.

just for an extra push here is yellow rage from def poetry jam. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zi2LoWPImZE

just for an extra push here is yellow rage from def poetry jam. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zi2LoWPImZE

Fenriswolf: Though you are obviously more respectful of Asian women, and not outrightly objectifying them, you are still perpetuation stereotypes. You know some Japanese women with these qualities, and you are attributing these personality traits to the whole population.

There are cultural differences, and I like the respectfulness and open-mindedness (VERY close-minded in some respects sure, but more open-minded than western culture in some ways) of their culture in general.

And as for muscularity, I think that is a genetic difference. I'm part Maori, and I build muscle like nothing, as do many Maori and Pacific Island people. It's only a personal hypoythesis that Japanese people do too.

But yeah, I definitely fetishise Asian women and cultures and this makes me somewhat uncomfortable but it doesn't mean I expect anything in particular from them in terms of personality than anybody else. *shrug*

So, my thoughts on this can be summed up as such:

Are you going to make a post about white women that exclusively date black men, and how they are "fetishizing" them?

Or anyone who is attracted to anyone else? If you plan to pretty much take attraction, and boil it down to nothing but fetishizing, what's your goal in that?

For instance, I'm not attracted to Hispanic people. I'm simply not. Doesn't make me racist, doesn't mean I "fetishize" the races I *do* find attractive.

People do have types that they find attractive. If we're going to simply call out anyone that has a preference, where does it end, exactly?

Do YOU have certain physical types you're attracted to more than others? Shall we say you're fetishizing them?

I don't mean to sound nasty here, but it sounds as though you're attacking any white male that's with an Asian woman of any nationality.

I mean, to take your post to it's logical conclusion, do you only want people to date within their race, at the risk of otherwise appearing as though they "fetishize" other races?

DocEss, how about you actually read the post and the comments that follow?

It's pretty clear to me that there's a difference between:
being attracted to an Asian woman,
and
fetishizing 'Asianness' and projecting your preconceived notions about Asians (a large and diverse portion of the world's population) onto Asian women, commodifying them for your own excitement.

Substitute any race you want for "Asian."

Why does it matter what attracts particular women and men to one another? Do the posters and (most of) the commenters on this blog value and revere free choice as to any subject that does not involve fetuses?

John in Nashville: "Why does it matter what attracts particular women and men to one another? Do the posters and (most of) the commenters on this blog value and revere free choice as to any subject that does not involve fetuses?"

In the future, you should at least skim through the previous comments before you post.

What we are condemning is the tendency for some men to stereotype a woman of another race, and make assumptions about what kind of girlfriend she would be based on those stereotypes.

Of course, some women are guilty of this too, as can be seen by a woman who dates a black guy just because she believes that he is well endowed.

This type of stereotyping is wrong, period.

and I'd like to respond to your second question with another question:
Are the trolls who frequent this blog able to debate any topic without bringing the often unrelated subject of abortion into the discussion?

Jeez.

It matters, John, because the fetishization of different cultures and their PEOPLE is harmful to those people!
Men who insult and disparage white women for being too opinionated or having "big vaginas," in favor of Asian women who are supposedly demure and tight are perpetuating damaging stereotypes that affect real people's lives! Nobody here is suggesting outlawing anything, so quit trying to silence the discussion. God, some of you are so defensive and unwilling to examine your attitudes.

Come on, people. I'm a South-east Asian woman dating a white man and I didn't assume that this post applied to my boyfriend. Why? Because he is not a fetishist. When people ask him what his girlfriend is like, he tells them how smart and funny she is. If people ask what his girlfriend looks like, he'll tell them about my race, but that's not why he dates me. He dates me because we have so much in common.

I have dealt with fetishists, though, and it was completely different. I had one guy openly tell me how much he LOVED East Indian chicks and how his last four girlfriends have all been East Indian. My Asian friend once had a guy come up to her and go, "Hey, Shanghai Princess," and then make some weird comment about dumplings and tea. That is not the normal behaviour of guys who just HAPPEN to like a certain set of features.

And frankly, I doubt Samhita's intention was to malign all white men who have dated interracially when she herself has dated white men.

As a half-Asian woman with a Korean mother, the stereotype of Asians being quiet and submissive either makes me want to laugh loudly or punch somebody, depending on how I'm feeling at that particular moment.

Most of the time it feels disingenuous for me to complain about racism because Asians seem to get the "good" stereotypes -- being smart, pretty, good with math/music/whatever -- it's like, comparatively, what do we have to complain about? But stereotypes are still stereotypes, and thus still harmful, especially for anybody that doesn't conform to the stereotypical view. It's also slightly annoying when you *do* conform to a stereotype in certain ways, because you wonder ... am I that way because that's the way I am, or because that's what people expect of me?

The boyfriend I'm dating now is white, and I know he's dating me because he likes me for who I am, not because he's acquired an Asian fetish from watching hentai.

Would I date an Asian guy if I were single again? Sure, if one asked me out because he liked me for who I was, and not because his mother wants him to marry an Asian girl.

I cannot comment much because I believe that in the original post by Samhita, the context of Caucasian men dating Asian women is within an American setting, an environment which I have no experience in, having never had the opportunity to so much as set foot in the country.

However, speaking as a Far East Asian with 20+ years living in Asia and 5+ years living in Australia, I would just like to add my comments which might provide a more global/international view.

While I do agree with Samhita that some Caucasian men do fetishize Asian women, ascribing them the usual stereotypes (meekness, docile, feminine, etc), I have to say that Asian women are able to and can do the same with Caucasian men.

Posters above have mentioned how most Caucasian men in America see Asian women as sexual playthings etc, due to the exposure of Asian women in porn sites in the US, and the stereotype that the Asian woman is an exotic, sexual tigress in the bedroom. I believe that the American law series with Lucy Liu in it imprinted this image on many a malleable male mind, although frankly speaking, most Asians in Asia are still trying to ponder how the American media have made Lucy Liu to be a this gorgeous, take-my-breath away vixen….most media here in Asia describe her as ordinary-looking, which often surprises Americans and shows a clear difference in how Americans and the rest of Asia categorize ‘beauty’.

Having said that, the exposure of Caucasian men in Asia is much, much larger in contrast. After all, aren’t movies from Hollywood THE movies that everyone around the world sees? American TV series? American news? American music? In terms of media power, America is top dog, and thus, there have been countless times where countries in Asia are always worried about “Western influence�.

The Caucasian male, as witnessed in the movies, is taller, more muscular, with more well-defined facial structure, well-spoken, rich and overall, always portrayed to be more masculine than the average Asian guy on the street could ever hope to be. Speaking as an Asian guy who did all the things teenagers are wont to do, how could I ever forget how my best friends (girls) would gush over how incredibly good-looking Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, Jude Law, Josh Harnett, Ryan Phillipe, etc are? How could they not fall in love with them, after all, they are always positively portrayed in the media. I once read a Female Magazine where young women (in Asia) were asked who their crushes were, and would hold up a picture of their crush (usually a movie star, singer, etc) while growing up. Out of the 20 or so girls, 18 held up picture of White Caucasian men, while the 2 others had pictures of black men.

In Asia, there is still the mentality that Whites are better than us. Even though the mind fully rationalizes that everyone is equal, that we are all brothers and sisters despite our skin colour, that we all bleed red blood, the Whites are still shown more deference…Why? It could be because of colonial history, or that the fact that Western media is so powerful. In Asia, there are always complains from customers that whites are always treated better, provided better service, than the Asian customers. Bigger spending power, perhaps?

Marrying a Caucasian man is often thought of as a “level up� for Asian women. It is thought of as some to be something of “prestige�. Some Asians (in Asia), think that marrying a Caucasian man will bring a better life, a more wealthy and prestigious social circle. Some Asian women even rule out Asian men and set their sights on getting a White boyfriend! Why? Perhaps because they believe in the “stereotypes� of White men? Here in Asia, besides the aforementioned features of being more masculine, rich and powerful, Caucasian men are thought to be more gentlemanly and generous, and who show proper respect for women, while of course, Asian men are domineering, chauvinist pigs who believe that a woman’s place is at home and in the kitchen? Who is right? * shrugs *.

Do all Asian women think like this? Of course not. It would be silly to come to that conclusion just as it is silly to say that all White men fetishize Asian women!

SarahMC mentions that:

‘Men who insult and disparage white women for being too opinionated or having "big vaginas," in favor of Asian women who are supposedly demure and tight are perpetuating damaging stereotypes that affect real people's lives!

She is totally right, as this in case, the men who do so are being insulting to both white women AND Asian women. Who wants to be thought of as a stereotype?

However, Caucasian men aren’t the only ones to be blamed for basing an entire race on stereotypes. Women do it too, and often.

How many Asian men out there have been shown the hand because the White woman that they’re interested in, just isn’t into Asians? And the Asian man’s stereotypes? That he is nerdy, lacking in social skills, built slender, shorter, less masculine, slanty eyes and the most loved stereotype of all, that Asian men have small penises. Wouldn’t you say this is damaging and affecting real people’s lives too? Could it be because there are not many positive portrayals of the Asian male in the media, just as there aren’t too many non-sexual portrayals of the Asian female in the media? I yearn for the day that an Asian man can actually carry a movie and fall in love with the leading woman, as well as the day that an Asian woman can star in a movie without being any man’s love interest , or a prostitute, or having her do some kung-fu.

My point is that are some Caucasian men to be blamed for fetishizing Asian women? Of course! Most of my Asian female friends have had very bad experiences with Caucasian men who treated them like some exotic pet, etc. But are we going to sit here and pretend that SOME Asian women, White women, and whatever racial demographic there is out there, DOESN’T buy into stereotypes just like the aforementioned sample of Caucasian men? That would be disingenuous and lay all the blame on the feet of these Caucasian men alone, as if only they alone were perpetuating all damaging stereotypes. There’s always 2 or more sides to every story.

As an aside, there is an interesting phenomenon happening in Singapore. In Singapore, men are required to do 2 years of army training, while the women are not subjected to the same. What this means is that women in Singapore often have more financial power than men their age. It has come to such a stage, being a rather small island nation, that with such financial success, Singaporean women are seen to have “morphed� into their Western counterparts: materialistic, aggressive, domineering, the need to have it all, etc….It has reached the stage where Singaporean men are now outsourcing for brides/partners overseas, often from the poorer countries, with Malaysian, Indonesian, Vietnamese, Thai, Fillipino and Mainlander Chinese women being the favourites. Of course, there was a large outcry from Singaporean women saying that men couldn’t handle them, that the men were immature, momma’s boys and chauvinistic etc……

It just goes to show you that even Asian men source for Asian brides.

I hope I have not rambled on too long. Please do excuse me for any mistakes in my English.

One explanation I have heard for the Asian fetish is that Asian women (and men, for that matter) tend to have features that, among Caucasians, are signs of physical immaturity. Smooth skin, rounder face shape, smaller size. Could it be that the Asian fetish is sublimated peodophilia?

Thank you for this post. I'm so sick of this bullcrap.

But to be fair, some of it is just like how some guys like blondes. Some people are just more attracted to the physical features common in Asian women.

Its still wrong to desire a relationship with a woman because of her looks, but it is a step above wanting to get with someone because you beleive their race to be easier to handle.

What this means is that women in Singapore often have more financial power than men their age.….It has reached the stage where Singaporean men are now outsourcing for brides/partners overseas, often from the poorer countries

This just shows the insanity of sexism. Men find themselves poorer than women, so the men seek out even poorer women to buy. So... they can be even poorer? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

I blame it on porn! If you want to see an industry that is both misogynistic and racist, look at porn. It's not just Asian women, but women of all types, being stereotyped - blacks are seen as "ghetto-ass, big-butted hoes," Latinas are described as "hot," "spicy," or some other silly terms, and Asians are described with stereotypical words like "Yellow Fever," or "Me Blow You Long Time" or whatever else. White women are scene as "dumb, white bitches who are too dumb for college and too lazy for work."

I am annoyed, but not surprised, at how women are not only scene through their sex and gender, but also color as well.

In the non-sexual sense, the one argument I've heard a lot - being an Asian-American myself, is that Asian women are supposedly more "obedient" than other types of women. Many also have used the "exotic" and "small-bodied" argument, which kind of freaks me out a bit.

But believe it or not, Asian-Americans themselves can also be quite racist when it comes to these stereotypes. I remember once, at Thanksgiving dinner, I gave my cousin an earful and was ready to start a fight because she was complaining that all my girlfriends have been white (it's not like chose to date them based on skin color