Let's not ignore the fact that the dog (a bulldog) is a rotund fellow himself. Because chubby ladies can only hang out with chubby dogs--and even they'll leave when someone better comes along.

Not surprisingly, I first found this video on CollegeHumor.

First let me say that I did not watch the commercial because I did not want to become upset as I think I might become while I'm at work.

Secondly, it's too bad this commercial isn't a kind of parody of the weight-loss industry or just ads in general. So much of our advertising plays on people's fears that if they don't do this or that they will wind up a failure/unloved, but rarely does an ad come right out and say, "Buy our product or end up a failure and unloved" the way this ad apparently does.

It's really interesting how the worst threat this guy can think of is, "you won't be able to find a husband." A fate worse than death!

I would love to see someone make a response ad, where the "fat" woman flicks this guy off and says, "Guess what, I don't even want a husband. I'm happy the way I am. And I'm not going to buy more stuff just because you think I should be unhappy with myself." ...But snappier than that...haha.

Wait, so there's a real life version of White Goodman from Dodgeball?

My mind can't get around this. It's a gym for people that are already skinny? But you don't have to be healthy right? You can be anorexic or bulemic? What an ass. I don't even want to think about the type of people that belong to this gym knowing this is his gimmick and philosophy.

How in the world would you call this the "anti-gym"? If anything it's the proto-gym. I can't imagine anything that would make me want to work out less. A key reason that I joined my gym was that most of the people I saw there were middle aged women and that I didn't have to be embarassed about the very small amount of weight I would adjust the machine too. I just don't understand how this business plan would work?

Wouldn't your living room couch qualify as an "anti-gym" more than this gym-on-steroids?

I wish I believed in hell 'cause I'd feel a lot better knowing this man was gonna get what he deserves.

ugh, what an awful gimmick. i'm not going to watch the commercial. i'm just going to pretend this doesn't exist, because this guy just wants controversy.

I saw one of their ads on TV a couple of nights ago - midway through the evening news. It almost made me cry and did make me turn the TV off. Are they trying to give people flashbacks to mistreatment in school? These are offensive on so many levels - and they employ the bullying tactics that scream hate into the very soul of any person ever teasted, even if they were teased for other things than weight.

how are things like this even legal? this whole getting away with descriminating against over-weight people or plus size people is just pissing me off. You can't descriminate against a person for anything else openly, but weight.

I'm a chubby woman (fat, even) who is about to marry somebody who thinks I'm gorgeous... and I always have sex with the lights on.

But seriously, the frog queen is right. If this were any other minority group there is no way this commercial would get air time. But when it's fat people being targetted, that is just fine.

How degrading.

This reminds me of why I was so afraid to join another gym. I went to one when I started school. I didn't stay with it because I was tired of being stared at and being the butt of jokes (Ooh, look at the fattie work out! teehee!). I was a fat woman who (gasp!) WANTED to exercise/lose size/get fit, but I couldn't take being the fattest, most unkempt person in what was obviously a singles bar/meat market atmosphere. (Seriously. The women all wore MAKEUP to work out! I thought that was insane.)

After many reassurances from my housemate, I did join a gym recently. Thankfully, my neighborhood Y caters to all ages, sizes, and family types. All the staff that I've spoken to have been helpful, friendly, and encouraging.

As far as Mr. Karolchyk's establishment goes, I figure that if grown men and women want to go around acting like the in-crowd in Junior High, they will get the level of discourse they deserve.

As someone who was chubby for a good chunk of my life ... ugh. On so many levels.

Watching Oprah while eating cupcakes in the dark? Is that the best stereotype they can come up with?

If you can stomach enough of the Web site to look through it, you'll find that they're actively supporting legislation to make childhood obesity a form of child abuse. Sure, parents need to help their kids stay healthy, but seriously? Is that supposed to be some kind of eugenics program to discourage people who are genetically prone to being overweight from reproducing (or at least living in that state)?

The one positive thing I saw on that heinous Web site is that they offer wake-up calls. I seriously wish my gym did that.

And on that note, off to the (non-anti) gym I go!

With you 100%, under_zenith. I am an overweight girl who has never turned out the lights for sex and is completely in touch with and confident about my sexuality. I doubt that that anorexic women have truly good sex, as they are probably obsessing too much about their bodies. Then again, isn't that what men like this anti-gym guy want: passive women with whom sex is rape-like?

The best sex I ever had was after a plate of delicious pasta for energy. 'Nuff said.

I live in Denver and this "anti-gym" advertises on a radio station that I used to listen to and the radio adverts are just as bad as the television ones -- one talks about how your ass should break your husband's hand if he slaps it, one features two women talking about how one can't have sex with the lights on because she's so ashamed of her body -- and the station's official policy line is that they can't control the content of their advertisers. They've officially lost at least one very loyal listener and my suspicion is that they've lost more than that, because they had the owner of this gym on the morning show defending himself, abysmally, I might add. It really is sick.

I live in Denver and this "anti-gym" advertises on a radio station that I used to listen to and the radio adverts are just as bad as the television ones -- one talks about how your ass should break your husband's hand if he slaps it, one features two women talking about how one can't have sex with the lights on because she's so ashamed of her body -- and the station's official policy line is that they can't control the content of their advertisers. They've officially lost at least one very loyal listener and my suspicion is that they've lost more than that, because they had the owner of this gym on the morning show defending himself, abysmally, I might add. It really is sick.

Wow...

I'm in Canada, and I have yet to see this. I doubt with the government's agressive anti-bullying campaign featuring endless commercials about adult bullying in the workplace that this would be allowed.
It's fine to let people who are dumb enough to fund this gym me assaulted and degraded, but promoting physical and emotional violence to the general public is going beyond what's necessary.

And good call on the White Goodman, Jeff. It's exactly what it is. I can only assume that Mr. Karolchyk's agressive and violent hatred for fat only stems from his own hate for himself and his fear of not being loved.

And I know for a fact if someone chucked a cupcake at me while I was on the treadmill I would totally eat it.

The commercial is obviously disgusting, but I'm sorry, being fat does NOT make you a minority or victim of discrimination. I'm not saying people don't discriminate against overweight people, but they also discriminate against blondes, bald guys, etc. - calling yourself a minority because you're fat is taking it too far. Unlike your racial status or sexual orientation, you actually CAN control your weight to a very large extent. Yes, genetics plays a part, but most people who are overweight eat too much or exercise too little...it's just a fact. Comparing being fat to being a racial minority demeans the meaning of what it is to be a minority.

How do I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying that?

I'm not really a pro-weight person (I accept that past a certain level health is affected, and I really think anyone past that point should focus on their health for their own good) but this is horrible, and networks shouldn't be accepting it. I don't care how much they paid. Who has let this air? Who can we complain to?

And EyeHeartNY, I'm afraid I'd support that legislation as long as they made provisions for children with medical disorders and were focusing on parents who overfed their children to the point of diabetes or making them bedridden. I've often thought that continuing to feed someone unhealthy food when they were bedridden from obesity and aren't even able to feed themselves should be considered a crime, a bit like bringing razors to a known cutter just because they asked for them, or inducing vomiting in a bulimic. But any such legislation would have to only apply where there is an obvious, overwhelming issue.

Basiorana, show me one incidence of a child being bedridden from obesity, and unable to feed themselves, and their parents continue to stuff them full of junk food. Just one.

Raginfem, if it was possible to change your race or sexual orientation, would that make discriminating against racial minorities and homosexuals suddenly okay? I hate that line of argument, because it totally comes across as: "Well obviously everyone would choose to be a straight white male if they could, but since they can't, it's wrong to insult them."

"Is that supposed to be some kind of eugenics program to discourage people who are genetically prone to being overweight from reproducing (or at least living in that state)?"

I'm sorry, but that's an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. In the '70s there were not nearly as many obese children and guess what - those people probably had similar genes to what people today have, even in the same families. Most kids I know who are obese stuff their faces all day with absolute crap and don't exercise. When obesity "runs" in families they've found that shared eating habits contribute just as much if not more to the weight than genetics. I'm guessing if you fed these kids who are "genetically prone to being overweight" healthy food for several weeks and had them play outside for a few hours every day, their excess weight would somehow magically disappear...

Think practically about that legislation, Basiorana. Do you honestly think it would be helpful to children? How many children do you know who are "bedridden from obesity"? You're conflating two different populations: chubby kids and people who make the Guinness Book of World Records. Here's what would happen: chubby kids would be taken from their parents and put into the foster care system. Does that really sound like a good idea to you? Something that's in the kids' best interests? It's really better to be forcibly seized from a loving home, the only one you've ever known, and put into the limbo hell of the foster care system where so many kids are deprived of basic love and support, than it is to live with loving parents who don't mind if you eat a lot of mashed potatoes, corn chips, and watch TV?

You're also assuming that controlling a child's weight is well within the power of his or her parents. How? Kids who go to school pretty much do what they want food-wise, when they're out of the house. I'm pretty sure that if my mom had known that I was drinking a coke every day with lunch when I was in 5th grade, she would have flipped...but...she didn't, and I'm naturally skinny. If you flipped this legislation, I would have been taken away from my parents because it was impossible for me to put on weight. It's still very difficult. So why should a kid who's naturally chubby be persecuted like that?

All that is leaving aside the poverty issues, which have been discussed at length before--the relative expense of fresh fruit and vegetables compared to processed goods, the difficulty of making ends meet with food stamps, etc.

Karolchyk will be another Asshole of the Week tomorrow.

Nice ads. I propose this one for them:

"The Anti-Gym: Emotional and physical abuse is teh HAWT!"

Asshats.

Uh-huh. And how do you "make" kids play outside when they live in a city? Or if they live by a highway and there's no safe area? Or if they live in a gang-ridden neighborhood and it's simply not safe for them to be on the streets?

Or, as in my case, they'd just rather read a book?

Hey, I thought of another one:

"The Anti-Gym: You too can be that asshole who picked on you all through high school!"

Gee, maybe I should ask for a job in their marketing department?

raginfem, you are using ridiculous stereotypes. I'm a Brownie leader, and I can tell you, the girls who eat the most are actually the really skinny ones - they're the ones who have fast metabolisms so they need lots of food. Our chubby and fat girls don't eat anymore or any worse than the rest (our fattest girl forwent the chips for salad at our last camp, telling me with a big grin: "I love salad!"), nor are they less enthusiastic about jumping up and playing tag and jump rope. Some children are just chubby... it's called "baby fat", and it often disappears after a growth spurt.

Ooh, good point, under_zenith. Allow me to clarify...I guess for me, being a woman or being a different race or being gay are not bad things. But being overweight...well, I don't judge overweight people, and I have many overweight friends, but it's not healthy and most of the time I worry about them because they don't exercise, don't eat well, etc. - and that's just not good for overall quality of life. It's the same with "skinny fat" people - you know, thin people who also don't exercise and therefore aren't actually healthier. Thanks for pointing that out though, my intention wasn't to say that inability to change yourself isn't the ONLY reason we should be against discrimination.

EG, why are you so ardently defending unhealthy living? Kids SHOULD be moving around and using their bodies - as humans we're not supposed to sit in a sedentary state all day. This stuff really worries me because I feel like with all of the video games and computer games and other things kids can do now, many of them don't bother to go outside. This happens even in areas where kids CAN go outside. And if they do live in a city, I think it's a parent's responsibility to get them active - bring them to the pool, get them involved in intermural sports, take them to the zoo and walk around all day - make it fun. And yes, I understand some people can't afford to do that, but that still doesn't mean we should be defending what is essentially unhealthy for children - perhaps we should find ways to help kids like that get out too.

And under_zenith, I am not using ridiculous stereotypes. Any nutritionist will tell you that weight gain happens when metabolic input exceeds output...if you eat more calories than you're burning, you'll gain weight. Some people have lower metabolisms so they do in fact have to either exercise more or eat less, so it is harder for them. But do you honestly think you know everything about those girls' eating habits because you're in GIRL SCOUTS with them? I have friends who eat salad for lunch every day but are overweight because they get hungry later and then eat nothing but junk. You don't see everything those girls eat and simple nutritional science proves you wrong, so I think I'll stick with my "ridiculous stereotype."

How successful is this gym? I can't imagine that feeling ashamed of yourself even more than you probably already do is going to help anything.

I also thought of Dodgeball and found it very sad that someone decided to put it into practice. There's a difference between "tough love" and sadism.

Two points re: the Legislation:
I have worked in children's community mental health for over eight years, and by law we are required to report any form of abuse within 24 hours. In my eight years, I have probably called CPS (Children's Protective Services) ten or so times. Some were for small things, and I called more for liability reasons than anything else, but some were for MAJOR abuse cases. In every single case, not one report was followed up by a CPS worker. We currently have a child (twelve years old) who sleeps naked with his mother at night while she has sex with men for money right next to him, and this has been report to CPS numerous times, confirmed by many sources. CPS has replied that this is the mental health agency pushing our "morals and values" on the family and they are not going to investigate. The blame is not only on the CPS workers either, one case manager I know has over 400 cases assigned to her to investigate - there is no way she can throughly investigate them all. My point? Do you really think that CPS is going to be able to investigate every single report of an overweight child in the home? They are so overloaded as it is! And it takes time and money away from the children who are being severely beaten, sodomized, starved, and neglected. All CPS would do would refer the parents to nutritional programs, all of which were available before CPS entered the picture. We have such a lack of foster homes in Idaho that even those that are being severely abused are kept in the home. It's horrible.
My second point is the irony about this douche claiming on one hand that anti-discrimination laws for overweight people is simply "Big Government" (his words) stepping in again where they are not wanted or needed, but when it suits his needs, big government is fine. It reminds me of Terry Nichols, the OKC federal building bomber, whining because he didn't like the public defender he was assigned, yet he admitted to blowing up the building because he was "getting back at the government." Cry me a river.

under_zenith: The comments about bedridden people were referring mostly to adults who have to live with their parents or a spouse because they can't get out of bed. They're rare, sure, but they shouldn't exist at all, and they should be considered a form of abuse. I'm sorry, upon rereading I didn't make that distinction clear.

EG: I wouldn't want it to go so far as to take kids away. Perhaps a mandatory class in ways to cook healthy food inexpensively (it CAN be done, it's just not something we know automatically) and calorie-counting and a few checkups from CPS now and then to make sure the parents are making an effort (and maybe a fine if they refused to comply). And you would have to make the legislation very precise so that the only way a kid could wind up under CPS's gaze was if they were diagnosed with serious health problems relating to their weight (diabetes, a obesity-related heart condition, etc), and after a certain amount of time their doctor and CPS confirmed that the parents weren't making any effort at all. Again, I am talking the very far ends of the spectrum, not the kids who are a little heavy. And schools should be offering healthier food anyway, maybe parents would push for them more if they were worried about getting written up.

Perhaps it is impractical. I would never support anything like that without reading what the bill said VERY carefully. I still think it's a good idea in theory, but in practice it might cause more problems than it solves.

raginfem: "Most kids I know who are obese stuff their faces all day with absolute crap and don't exercise." is a stereotype. You've admitted that you know people who eat unhealthily and don't excercise and yet are still thin, why is it so difficult to believe that the opposite can be true as well? That people can eat healthy and excercise but still be overweight?

And we're getting a little off topic here, so I'm just going to say: It is not acceptable to show anybody being assualted and humiliated in order to advertise a product. And if the person in question wasn't fat, I doubt it would fly. But there is a perception in our culture that it is okay and even a good thing to humiliate fat people, so companies can get away with stuff like that. And that's bullshit.

keric125: Wow. I had no idea CPS was that bad. I mean, I knew that it was flawed, but it sounds horrible there-- I wonder how bad it is in my state, I will have to research that. I hereby withdraw any comments I might have made about supporting such legislation-- clearly it is not anywhere near as important as reforming and funding CPS for the ones who very severely need it.

"It's the same with "skinny fat" people - you know, thin people who also don't exercise and therefore aren't actually healthier."

Hey, wait, raginfem - What about us fat people who eat healthy, exercise, and are by every medical standard "healthy" - but are just fat? We are not that exceptional. We are not that rare. And you cannot tell from the outside who eats crap and who doesn't, nor is it anyone's business but their own.

It is silly to say that all you have to do to get thin is to eat right or exercise well. This is not a bloody thermodynamics problem. Energy in = energy used plus stored, but the energy used is not a linear equation where you just have to move more to burn more. The body regulates itself to a very particular size within reasonable inputs. It is just as difficult to make a naturally fat person thin and keep them that way as it is to make a naturally thin person fat - that is, it is almost impossible. Study after study are showing this. Check out the blog Junkfood Science.

To say fat=lazy /is/ a ridiculous stereotype and is exactly what these people are trying to tell you - that it is so acceptable to hate on the fatties in this culture that it doesn't even get a second thought. No, overweight people are not minorities, but there are two things to remember here: first, it's not okay to discriminate and hate on people for something they can't change. Second, it's really not okay to do the same for people who can, anyway. It is none of anyone else's business. If shame and humiliation were enough to make fat people thin, there wouldn't be any fat people in this country.

EG, why are you so ardently defending unhealthy living? Kids SHOULD be moving around and using their bodies - as humans we're not supposed to sit in a sedentary state all day. This stuff really worries me because I feel like with all of the video games and computer games and other things kids can do now, many of them don't bother to go outside. This happens even in areas where kids CAN go outside. And if they do live in a city, I think it's a parent's responsibility to get them active - bring them to the pool, get them involved in intermural sports, take them to the zoo and walk around all day - make it fun.

Because I find there to be a noxious level of judgmentalism levelled at people whose preferred ways of life are not considered "healthy" in popular wisdom. Why is it so offensive to some people that others might not consider a one-size-fits-all paradigm of human health worth overriding all their basic urges and desires? I was a very sedentary child. Putting me in any kind of sports would have been punishment--and furthermore, I just wouldn't have done it. You can't actually force a kid who's sedentary to put the book down and run around a field if she doesn't want to. Some people do not like exercise. I didn't walk until I was almost 2. I hated gym class. I wouldn't exercise now if you paid me. Why is it so difficult to accept that people can be fundamentally different, and that what seems like a good thing to you is not at all appealing to me?

Further, what parents do you know who can afford to take a kid to the pool or the zoo every day? Most parents I know work full-time. Their kids go to school. The parents come home, see to meals, household stuff, etc. and the kids have homework. The kids might even want to do an extracurricular activity that isn't athletic, like playing music or writing. Why must all parents make your priorities their priorities? Why does your idea of health outweigh their knowledge of what's feasible for their family and best for their child?

I'm going to do my best to not get upset over this discussion.

It is true that often overweight people could eat better or exercise more. I don't think that's the point of this story, and I think that bringing it up in a thread about this story reinforces for overweight people the idea that their weight is, in fact, a valid reason for verbal and physical attacks. And that they shouldn't whine too much because, after all, they could control themselves if they just tried a little harder.

There is a place for people to focus on healthy eating and exercise, but why does that have to be here, in the shadow of that asshole shouting 'moo!' at that poor, underpaid actress?

I would hope that this would be a place where we could all agree that nobody deserves to be humiliated or abused just because of the way they look. That's the only point that should be derived from this particular story, and having it be a springboard for fat-blaming is upsetting.

raginfem,
I think EG isn't "defending healthy living," but rather pointing out that are ideas of what people could do to be more healthy often involve assumptions that our characterized by our privilege (like that everyone has a neighbor that kids could go out and play in or that people aren't working two jobs and have time to take their children to the pool [the free pool?]).

I also think that this is a really tense issue because although now many people take issue with obesity from the angle that it is unhealthy to be obese. For years (and clearly as this commercial demonstrates, still today), being over-weight has been linked with moral failings (like that person is slovenly, lazy, and stupid and that is why they are fat). Our discussion about weight-loss for health reasons cannot be divorced from the impact of history (namely years of fat-shaming for non-health related reasons).

The fact is, as this commercial demonstrates, issues of body weight are still deeply tide up with people's personal issues of self-worth. To pretend it's all about health is disingenuous.

I have an overweight sister. And, if he treated my sister like this, I'd probably kill him with my bare hands. I'm not exagerating.

Granted, her diet and lifestyle is not something I subscribe to and it surely frustrates the hell out of me. But, that does not give anyone license to hurt someone else.

Sorry, I honestly hate this man.

My comment is full of many embarrassing typos, but I hope what I mean is clear. Sorry!

Furthermore, I must object to the term "skinny fat people." If what you mean is "unhealthy skinny people," why not say that? "Fat" does not actually mean the same thing as "unhealthy."

Well, at least we'll know who to put up against the wall first when the revolution comes: this douchebag and all the dipshits who paid money to be insulted by him.

The fact is, people come in different shapes and sizes FOR A REASON.

I happen to be larger than a size 4 (or a size 10 for that matter) and I AM PERFECTLY HEALTHLY. I do not go to a gym or work out at home, but I am not utterly sedentary either. Nor do I even own a bathroom scale. I do not watch what I eat too carefully (what fun is that?), but I do not eat nothing but "crap" either.

My heart is strong, and yes, I can "move my body" however I damn well wish. No, I can't wrap my leg around my head like a pretzel, but I don't know too many so-called "healthy" people who can do that either.

Not being thin does not equal being unhealthy. And I find the term "skinny-fat" extremely rude and ignorant. Thin or fat, it doesn't matter. It shouldn't even be an issue. And I am mighty mighty sick of those people who try to tell me that they are better than me somehow because they assume I am unhealthy since I couldn't fit into any of their clothes.

I used to be very very very skinny. And now I am voluptuous.

I totally prefer voluptuous!

Did everyone see the story the other day that suggested that it was healthiest to be overweight? Second healthiest body type was 'normal' and skinny and obese brought up the rear.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-na-weight7nov07,1,6174404.story?coll=la-headlines-health

As a person who is not obese but will never be skinny, let me say 'Woo!' And where is the movement to remove normal weight children from the homes of their abusive parents?

I'm being facetious but really... can we let each other be a little.

I think that anyone who can't let any weight story go without mentioning their negative feelings or opinions about fat people might be having a problem with body image or self-esteem.

Actually, studies are showing that overweight people (BMI 25-30) live longer than normal weight people (BMI 18-25). And being obese (BMI >30) has about the same mortality risks as being underweight (BMI (Source)

Also, while the calories-in, calories-out theory can work on a small scale, like eating one more candy bar a day may cause you to gain some extra pounds, it can not be extrapolated on a large scale to. As in, if one extra candy bar a day would cause you to gain 10 pounds, that does not mean that a 300 pound person eats 200 extra candy bars a day. It does not mean they eat any candy bars a day. My best friend weighs twice as much me, and she certainly doesn't eat twice as much as me. We've lived together before and spent a lot of time together, and often our diets are relatively similar. But, even eating the same exact meals doesn't put our weights anywhere near eachother. What has? When she was bulimic. Some people are just meant to be larger and can't get to a more normal weight in any healthy way.

"But being overweight...well, I don't judge overweight people, and I have many overweight friends, but it's not healthy and most of the time I worry about them because they don't exercise, don't eat well, etc"

I don't judge overweight people - I just tell them how unheathly they are. Because, I'm totally the final authority on what's healthy for EVERYONE.

Ah, concerned trolling. NOthing like showing everyone your bigotry while denying it.

I can't believe the people who observe that Americans used to be a lot less fat, and somehow draw the conclusion that this is a *personal* problem, that individuals just need to exercise more willpower or something.

Newsflash: if everyone in a culture is doing it, it is probably something in the culture doing it *to* them, and shaming them personally, threatening them with the loss of their kids, or otherwise treating it as a personal failing just shows a complete failure of logic. What, in 30 years the moral fiber of Americans completely decayed? We weren't that great of a people in the 70's, you know.

the truth is, if I were to look at a fat person vs. a skinny person, and they are the same age, I would draw the following conclusions:

1. The fat person is probably poorer than the skinny person, and has access to a lower quality of food. Few in America starve, but the cheap food is loaded with fat and sugar.

2. or, the fat person is working much harder than the skinny person. The skinny person has a lot of leisure time to plan meals, cook for themselves, and go to the gym, or take long walks, or ride a bike. The fat person drives on a scarily long commute to a mentally grueling job that involves sitting at a desk for 9 hours, and then drives home, and having consumed something like 11-12 hours at work, has no physical or emotional energy to do anything but unwind in front of the TV or read a good book. Probably the fat person eats a lot of take-out because their time-consuming work schedule allows little time to cook.

3. Or, the fat person gets a lot less sleep than the skinny person, as lack of sleep is known to cause weight gain and diabetes. Possibly for the same reasons as 2.

4. The skinny person might smoke, do drugs, or have an eating disorder.

5. The skinny person might have a naturally fast metabolism.

Except for 5, all of the above are caused by trends in our society. Many fewer Americans smoke, and instead of self-medicating with very dangerous illegal drugs that strip us to the bone, many of us legally medicate with drugs like Prozac that put on the weight. We have less time, less money, bigger portion sizes, more fat and sugar in the food, less support for going outside for activities, longer commutes, and more desk jobs.

NONE of this shit means fat people are lazy. A lot of it means fat people are hard-working. Probably harder-working than the skinny people. Some of it means the fat people are healthier (if you are skinny because you smoke or you do meth, you are not healthier than a fat person.) So the moral judgements that fat people are "unhealthy" and "lazy" have got to fucking go.

Full disclosure: I was skinny as long as I was childless and my life schedule allowed an hour or two to walk every day. I got kids, no longer had the time in the day for the long random walks, and what do you know, I got fat.

I'm kind of depressed to see this kind of prejudice on the site, truly. EG, thank you as always for your great comments.

Ah, the fattist vs. fittest argument. Sigh.

All I can say is: I don't own a car and I walk and ride my bicycle EVERYWHERE. I love to cook and I eat a very healthy diet with lots of fruits and raw vegetables (and not swimming in ranch dressing). I eat pizza or hamburgers maybe twice a month. I bring my lunch to work at least 4 days a week and they're usually bento lunches--small portions of every food group. My blood pressure, blood sugar and cholesterol are low-average.

And I'm a size 20.

Don't look at someone's size and think you know everything there is to know about their lifestyle or health, or that you have the right to judge them. You absolutely do not.

"I doubt that that anorexic women have truly good sex, as they are probably obsessing too much about their bodies."

There is no excuse for ridiculing big people just as there is no excuse for ridiculing those that are thin or have eating disorders such as anorexia. Perhaps your statement was not meant in this way, but it really isn't any of your business or mine who is having great sex based on their body type. I am an ally of the pro-fat movement and supportive of my friends who participate in it and have found strength from it, but it is not an "us" vs. "them" or "fat" vs. "thin" battle. Speculating on a person's sex life because of a legitimate medical condition seems inappropriate to me in any context.

I'm hardly going to go up to a person in the street and tell them they're fat. I wouldn't even do it to someone I knew, because chances are, they know and it's not my business anyway.

But I'm going to go into medicine. So I most likely will wind up telling obese people that they should lose weight someday. Note, OBESE people. With my career choice, I have issues saying "Oh, it's just their choice, they should be considered beautiful for it" because it's not actually truly healthy. But as I said, I would never judge an individual for their weight, and attacking them for it, like this ad does, is worse.

Basiorana, I appreciate that you wouldn't go up in the street and tell someone they're fat, but your statements still kind of sound like your passing judgment...like it's a horrible thing that they are fat, but that you wouldn't want to be rude and tell them so. Sorry if that was not what you meant and I'm reading too much into your comment.

I was a very sedentary child. Putting me in any kind of sports would have been punishment--and furthermore, I just wouldn't have done it. You can't actually force a kid who's sedentary to put the book down and run around a field if she doesn't want to. Some people do not like exercise. I didn't walk until I was almost 2. I hated gym class. I wouldn't exercise now if you paid me.

You just described my childhood exactly (including the not walking until 2!).

Also, the "trend" of Americans getting fatter can be linked to the induction of high-fructose corn syrup to the food market. That shit is evil and it's in almost everything. Evil, like the asshat in the video!

raginfem:
Call it what you will, but the "all fat people are unhealthy" line of argument is merely a semantic restructuring of "all fat people can't control themselves and that's why they're fat."

If I knew you in person, I would challenge you to outlift or outswim me. You wouldn't be able to, because all those skinny girls working out on the next machine or the next lane can't.

It's people like you who come up to me after I get out of the pool and actually say things like "you're an amazing swimmer" with the added "for your size" left hanging in the air unsaid. It actually keeps me from swimming with the Masters team because I get so damned sick of the surprised looks when I can go as far, as fast, and for as long as most of them.

I don't know why I should be surprised though, even feminists absorb the cultural story that if you're fat, you must be lazy and not go to the gym.

Let me clarify-- I understand that there are many, many reasons why people are overweight and thus while I will speak generally of the kind of person who is obese because of their lifestyle choices, I would not actually talk to them about it or treat them any differently than anyone else unless I was their medical doctor, and understood why they were the way they were.

Me too Jessica... feminist sites are a place where I let my guard down, so when prejudiced statements are made here it's like being slapped in the face.

I'm hardly going to go up to a person in the street and tell them they're fat. I wouldn't even do it to someone I knew, because chances are, they know and it's not my business anyway.

Exactly! I don't know why more people can't see it that way.

So I most likely will wind up telling obese people that they should lose weight someday

Just... be careful how you do it. A lot of fat women avoid seeing doctors because when they do, they just get bullied about their weight. (Or have all of their problems blamed on their weight, I know a fat woman who went to the doctor for strep throat and he told her: "Just lose some weight, you'll feel better") So, try to have compassion and understanding about it. And if a person tells you: "Look, I know the risks of being fat but dieting hasn't worked for me and I'd prefer not to be lectured about my weight", try to accept that.

under_zenith, your comment reminds me of the last time I went to see my former doctor.

It was for an annual phyical check-up, and I was sitting there in that little paper gown while she read my file, and then she looks up at me and says, "Well, you have gained X number of pounds in the last 5 years. So what's wrong? What's giong on?? What's your problem???" And she said it so bluntly, it was just like being slapped across the face. (The fact that she is this teensy weensy short petite little bitty woman didn't help.) I felt just like an elephant wrapped in a Kleenex! (I am only a size 12-14.) I was so upset I began to cry, and she sort of backed off a little bit, but continued to insist I tell her why the hell I was no longer very thin. I was so humiliated, I never went to see her again. I have a new doctor, and when I went to see her for my next annual physical, she said I was wonderfully healthy and had a nice, strong heart and all that jazz. I felt so good about myself, I immediately fell in love with my new doctor and will continue to see her always.

So, everyone, I'm conducting a poll:

Which is worse?

this horrendous, utterly disgusting and bigoted commercial

-or-

the fact that people are using something this disgusting and bigoted as an excuse to concern troll?

Decisions, decisions.

"If this were any other minority group there is no way this commercial would get air time. But when it's fat people being targetted, that is just fine." - Under_zenith

Looking through the site, I have a feeling that by their standards "chubbies" (their word, not mine) are the majority, not a minority.

Wow, Jessica. I've always considered myself a lifelong feminist and now because I'm expressing an opinion about unhealthy living habits I'm told by you that I'm prejudiced. Right. Well, I'm sorry I didn't jump on the bandwagon and make as many excuses as possible for overweight people so that they'd feel better about themselves. Making excuses for unhealthy people isn't going to make them get any better, whether they smoke, drink, overeat or undereat. Personal responsibility is awfully hard to come by in our society right now and I'm tired of it. I don't agree with the commercial which was the subject of the original post, but if I want to point out that most (not ALL) overweight people could probably lose weight if they felt like it (and some don't! I get it!), that is NOT prejudiced, and quite frankly, how dare you call me that.

Aside from that, Jessica, I think you overstep your bounds as moderator on this website. You constantly make negative comments toward people who don't completely agree with the feminist status quo and defend the ones who shoot people with different opinions down. As a moderator your job is to make sure there aren't any blatantly stupid remarks that don't contribute to the conversation, not to play favorites. Whenever ANYONE who has a SLIGHTLY different opinion from the rest of the people on this website posts their remarks, they are instantly flamed and called trolls and sometimes their comments are even misinterpreted so blatantly it seems almost intentional. I am horrified that I was placed in the category of "troll" here when I was doing nothing more than expressing concern about some of my friends' unhealthy living habits - and incidentally, most of the ones who don't exercise and eat and drink too much also magically turn out to be the ones who are overweight. I personally feel AMAZING when I exercise and by mentioning to everyone here that it's a wonderful thing to get involved in, it is somehow interpreted as me shoving my views down other people's throats and insisting they live the same way I do.

Finally, I just have to say that I am deeply upset by the way many of you react to people with different views than you. Again, some people here are "trolls" - name-calling is a great strategy for argument, by the way - but posting comments in a little feminist bubble without actively considering other people's opinions isn't going to change the world in any productive way; it will just make all of you feel validated in your opinions. In many ways this blog just incessantly preaches to the choir. As a feminist I WANT to see change in this world, but ignoring people who don't agree with you on every single topic and refusing to intellectually engage with them by just calling them trolls and moving on isn't the way to go here. Some of you had great responses to my remarks - I especially liked the person who pointed out that I shouldn't call unhealthy skinny people "skinny fat." That's a popular term and I have just realized why it is a faulty one. So thank you to that person; you changed my mind. The rest of you just called me names, alienated me, and didn't further the cause of lessening prejudice against overweight people.

By calling people names without bothering to explain to them why their views might be faulty, you are doing a disservice to feminism. Instead of calling the next sexist guy's comment on this blog a troll, why not explain to him in a very calm, rational way why his way of thinking is flawed? In the case of Amman, for example, someone might have pointed out to him that the definition of sexual harassment is when EITHER gender makes unwanted sexual remarks or contact, not just men, and then added that because it's mainly men who sexually harass women, that's why he perceives it that way. It might not have changed his mind, but it certainly would have done a better job than calling him a troll, which is what many of you tend to do. It's lazy, it's offensive, and it doesn't further the very causes we all believe in. I don't think I'm going to come on this blog anymore, but I hope some of your attitudes change for feminism's sake.

Mz.Stilletto:
When I was 16, I weighed 160 lbs (I'm 5'7"). I swam 2.5 hours a day and could lift a huge amount of weight. My doctor told me I was overweight and should go on a diet. I was a pretty shy kid and totally internalized that and as the years go on and I look back at pictures and marvel at how incredibly fit I was I get so angry at how that doctor treated me. I didn't fit into the "healthy" measures of that era, which made a physically fit girl feel like she was fat - not by the media, mind you, but by a "medical professional."

Bah. I hadn't thought of that in a long time. Now I'm all irate.

raginfem, I'm a fat woman who also feels amazing when she excercises, and that is the whole POINT. That you can't assume all fat people sit on their asses and eat potato chips all day, which is what you're doing, and it's offensive. And for a fat woman who just watched that horrible ad, it is double offensive to return from watching it just to have somebody on a feminist website espouse basically the same view.

Also, several people did explain to you rationally why they thought you were wrong. Read EG or particularily AlaraJ's comments.

I'm sorry I didn't jump on the bandwagon and make as many excuses as possible for overweight people so that they'd feel better about themselves. Making excuses for unhealthy people isn't going to make them get any better, whether they smoke, drink, overeat or undereat.

But raginfem, time after time, experience as well as surveys will show that when people feel bad about themselves they do not improve their own health. Helping people to feel better about themselves does help their health, as it helps them feel that taking care of themselves is a worthwhile activity. Anecdotally, the times in my life when I've felt worst about myself are the times when I consciously engaged in unhealthy behavior the most.

This many not carry a lot of weight with you, since Jessica liked my comments, but since it's her and the other moderators' website, it's entirely up to them what their roles should be. I personally have always marvelled at their abilities not to flip their shit over comments--one of the reasons I could not run a website like this is that I would never, ever leave my computer.

under_zenith, you didn't even bother to read my entire post. That's exactly why I'm not coming on this site anymore.

under_zenith, you didn't even bother to read my entire post. I AGREED with BOTH of the points you just made. This is exactly why I'm not coming on this site anymore.

raginfem:
I'm sorry you feel you've been inappropriately attacked, but I do suggest you come back and read your comments when you've calmed down. The way you discussed your side was insulting and patronizing, which is really why you got the reaction you did.

Even in your last post you talk about how you feel AMAZING when you work out, which is irrelevant to peoples' response to you. I too feel great when I work out, but no one was advocating for people to not work out. They were trying to tell you that the things you were saying were truly unfair and poorly presented at best. Maybe you can't see that now, maybe it's easy for you to be thin and you think that anyone who isn't just like you is lazier than you are. I don't know. All I know is that your assertions about why people are heavier really bothered me because I felt that you were attacking *me* without knowing me. Because I know exactly what you would think of me if you saw me on the street: lazy, eats too much, etc...none of which are true.

Can you blame us for getting upset with you for that?

raginfem:
I'm sorry you feel you've been inappropriately attacked, but I do suggest you come back and read your comments when you've calmed down. The way you discussed your side was insulting and patronizing, which is really why you got the reaction you did.

Even in your last post you talk about how you feel AMAZING when you work out, which is irrelevant to peoples' response to you. I too feel great when I work out, but no one was advocating for people to not work out. They were trying to tell you that the things you were saying were truly unfair and poorly presented at best. Maybe you can't see that now, maybe it's easy for you to be thin and you think that anyone who isn't just like you is lazier than you are. I don't know. All I know is that your assertions about why people are heavier really bothered me because I felt that you were attacking *me* without knowing me. Because I know exactly what you would think of me if you saw me on the street based on what you've said here: lazy, eats too much, etc...none of which are true.

Can you blame us for getting upset with you for that?

EG, that's a really good point. There was actually a study done recently showing that children who were shamed for their weight were more likely to end up overweight in 5 years than children who were treated kindly. Also, putting the emphasis on weight loss rather than healthy eating and excercise for their own sake is harmful. Because if a person is making lifestyle changes in order to lose weight, and they don't lose weight or don't lose as much weight as they would like, then they'll probably just go back to their old habits. Whereas if people make lifestyle changes for their health, and see health benefits but no weight loss, they're more likely to stick with it.

Of course, if somebody wants to eat junk food all day and never excercise, I don't really see how that's any of my concern either.

Mz.Stilleto, that happens to me, too!

Seriously. Sprained shoulder/neck from too much heavy lifting? I'm too fat. Sore throat and persistent cough? I'm too fat. Regular check-up? Don;t have them any more. Every visit I get asked what I'm doing to lose weight, what diets I've tried, how often I exercise and, when I tell them what I'm doing, they pick it apart.

Last time? I mentioned the most recent weight-loss attempt that had worked; alternate-day fasting. Day 1- water. Just water. Day 2- balanced meals. Day 3- water. Day 4-balanced meals, and so on. Plus the hour walk to and from work daily, bi-weekly walks along the pebbled beach and swimming.

My doctor's response?

"And do you think that is enough?"

So yeah, be careful Basiorana. Be sensitive. That sort of thing has resulted in me and my mum both putting off or just plain not going to a doctor for crippling back pain, regular migraines, persistent chest infections, lumps in the breast/armpit, viral infections...

raginfem, you still seem to be equating "overweight" with "unhealthy".

QUOTE: "...make as many excuses as possible for overweight people so that they'd feel better about themselves..."
AND THEN: "Making excuses for unhealthy people isn't going to make them get any better..."

Many, MANY people would consider me to be overweight. And I *am* healthy. And I don't need to "get better". I am perfectly fine JUSt the way I am!

Why was this an appropriate place to talk about how you feel about fat at all? Your failure to see this as a thread decrying the acceptance of verbal and physical abuse is the problem, not anyone else's valid points about how your attitude supports the point of view of the man in the clip at the top of the page.

Oh, boo-hoo, raginfem. Don't let the door hit you.

Here's the thing, RagingFem -- you seem very upset that you came into this and said some things that are very hurtful to a number of people, and then those mean people had the temerity to be mad at you.

I suppose that's your right and all, but consider if someone came onto a different thread, and started saying, "Well I think abortion is fine for women who have accidents. But the sluts who use it for birth control...well, I mean that's just unhealthy. Think of the STDs you can get if you sleep around.", would you think that they were somewhat misguided, and required polite-but-firm correction? Or would you think the person was dealing was at the very least somewhat misogynistic?

I'd take door number two, myself. And if that person responded to everyone's posts about that being offensive by ratcheting up the rhetoric to 11, while saying, "I was doing nothing more than expressing concern about some of my friends' unhealthy sexual habits"...you'd flame away cheerfully.

YOUR COMMENTS WERE OFFENSIVE. Perhaps you didn't mean them to be, but they were. They hurt a lot of people on this site. You're entitled to your opinion, which is evidently low with regard to fat people. But you're not owed a pat on the head and a hearty "well-done." If you offend people, they have the right to be offended. And they damn well have the right to say so.

"Personal responsibility is awfully hard to come by in our society right now and I'm tired of it."

Yikes. Do you know what you sound like, raginfem?? You're being called out on your incredibly prejudiced (negative, judgmental, stereotypical) opinions about fat people. (Fat does not equal unhealthy- there are as many "thin" unhealthy people as fat ones.) Instead of whining about getting called out for it, why don't you poke around at some fat acceptance websites (shapely prose, the round, big fat blog)and educate yourself.

Damn...make that the rotund, not the round.

Aside from that, Jessica, I think you overstep your bounds as moderator on this website. You constantly make negative comments toward people who don't completely agree with the feminist status quo and defend the ones who shoot people with different opinions down. As a moderator your job is to make sure there aren't any blatantly stupid remarks that don't contribute to the conversation, not to play favorites.

Um, actually Jessica is not a moderator. Well, I mean, she is, but I'd say it's a serious mis-characterization of her role. Last time I checked it was her fucking blog (and the other ladies'). Are you seriously suggesting that she's not allowed to express an opinion about the comments left on her blog about a post that she wrote? Because I don't know what else to do but laugh.

Also, I will say that you're behaving in a prejudiced manner. But Jessica never named any names. You decided that she was talking about you.

I agree with the suggestion that you come back later and reread this thread, because right now you clearly don't get it. This conversation on such a post is 100% inappropriate to begin with.

Also, to clarify, I did not call you a troll. I did say that you were engaging in the act of concern trolling. There is a difference, and as far as I know you're not a troll. But you are concern trolling. I honestly understand the misinterpretation, though, which is why I clarified. I can't speak for anyone else, though, and