God, I hate that woman. Though Whoopi was awesome, I somehow doubt that Hasselbeck is going to start being more respectful. I find myself really, really wishing that one of the View women has had an abortion (and would be willing to admit to it) to shut her the fuck up.

I love the "superficial reasons" comment. I'm sure to her that "I don't want kids," "I'm in high school," "I don't want to be a single parent" or "In order to afford a child at this point, I would have to get my heat turned off" are superficial reasons to her. Seriously, what does she think women do? "Wait, my due date is February 27th? Damn, I have a hair appointment for that day! Off to the abortion clinic for me!" I bet.

Pay people to have kids? We should pay people not to have kids.

Yup, Cara, sad but true--my friend had an abortion because she didn't want stretch marks, didn't want to sacrifice 10 hours of sleep a night, and thought babies were "icky". [/sarcasm]

I also love how she says something along the lines of the fewer abortions thing being her "first reaction" or "gut instinct" when she heard about this proposal (I don't want to go back and watch it again to get the exact wording). I just have to wonder how this woman's mind thinks in other situations.

"20% off on baby clothes at Target! WOO HOO! More women won't have to spend more on baby clothes and will therefore NOT WANT TO MURDER BABIES!"

"Kids eat for free after 4 PM at IHOP? Great! Now all of those women who got knocked up on a whim and want to have an abortion for superficial reasons will think twice since they can now feed their kids!"

SHUT UP!!!

She simultaneously believes that a $5,000 check will convince women with unwanted pregnancies to forget about the abortion and have their babies, and that that would be a GOOD thing - for such "superficial" women to have babies for money.

I don't know why, but I watch the view almost everyday....mostly for comedic effect, but I can't help but squeal when elisabeth is put in her place. Thank you whoopi!

Oh God, I know The View is supposed to be women with different viewpoints, but Hasselbeck needs to go. Most of her views are very poorly thought out, if at all.

And what the fuck are superficial abortions anyway? If you don't want to have a baby because of stretch marks/weight gain/whatever, you probably shouldn't be having children. But I've yet to hear any "superficial" reasoning behind having an abortion.

I am so fucking sick of hearing this "superficial reason" deal. The bottom line with abortion doesn't even relate to the many valid reasons why a woman might choose to have one -- the bottom line is that IT'S MY BODY, SO IT'S MY RIGHT. I don't give a shit what you think of my reasons, because it's not your body, so if you don't like them then don't get one and shut the fuck up!!!

And what the fuck are superficial abortions anyway? If you don't want to have a baby because of stretch marks/weight gain/whatever, you probably shouldn't be having children. But I've yet to hear any "superficial" reasoning behind having an abortion.
These anti-choicers are so medieval. They act like we rip living babies out of our wombs, give them to Satan, and coat ourselves with belladonna and fly broomsticks. It's like it's beyond them to think that abortion is a highly charged, emotional subject and differs for every woman.
I never want to have a baby, I think I'd be a horrible mother, but I don't think I could have an abortion. That's just me, though, and I'd never, ever consider taking away a woman's right to make this choice.
And seriously, how did Elizabeth Hasselbeck even get on The View? I've never heard of her (Or Sherri Shepherd), all I know is that she won some reality show. Since when does that qualify you to have a national audience? As much as I dislike Meredith Viera, at least she's a fairly respected journalist (I know she's not on the show anymore, but she's the first who came to mind).

You know, I for one am glad that Hasselbeck is there. I live in the UK and thus only see snippets of The View when people point to them, but a) you can't say there aren't different opinions, no 'OMG another liberal show!' complaints, and b) every time she speaks is an opportunity to show up yet another flaw in the views she is representing, such as the anti-choice one. For once, a chance for such poor arguments to be smacked down on TV in front of the nation, instead of having them perpetuated unchallenged everywhere.

Since when was "I don't want to have a(nother) child" a superficial reason? It's a huge commitment.

I do believe she's right, though, on some level about a financial incentive decreasing the number of abortions. I'm not seeing it as people being shallow and greedy, though, I'm seeing it as something more basic. More money = less poverty = less abortions.

100 points for Whoopi though. Well said.

You are absolutely right, SarahMC. Hasselbeck would rather women have a ton of children for $5,000 a pop than have an abortion because it costs more than that to feed a child for a year. And how much is Elizabeth making for starring on The View anyway? Probably millions! How about taking a pay cut to help the wee embryos? No, she'd rather swim in Jimmy Choos.

And I love how she thinks middle class is some glorious thing, like everyone in the middle class has everything they need. I'm going to be in debt for the longest time because my college education costs more than how much I'm going to make in 5 years once I complete my education.

What Hasselbeck and all of the other rich dicks who are opposing the S-CHIP bill fail to grasp is that "middle-class" now means "living above the poverty level, which is way too low." Either that, or they just don't care. But it's a highly dangerous lie to be throwing out there.

I HATE to ever agree with Hasselbeck, but that little plan of Hilary's does seem extraordinarily problematic....

"She simultaneously believes that a $5,000 check will convince women with unwanted pregnancies to forget about the abortion and have their babies, and that that would be a GOOD thing - for such 'superficial' women to have babies for money."

I thought Clinton's $5000 per birth proposal included not letting any of the baby's parents have the money at all and not letting the baby have the money until she or he turns 18...

I am in no way agreeing with Hasselbeck but studies (which escape me now, perhaps someone can help back this up) have shown that when the economy is good there are less abortions because women/families are making more money and thus that takes away one reason they would have an abortion (i.e. can't afford it). If I remember correctly the abortion rate was lower when Clinton was in office, than when Bush 1 was in office. Then again I could be talking out of my ass but I swear I read that in some reputable news source.

So that could play into it for Hasselbeck, but like FEMily said, it costs more than 5,000 to raise a child a year.

Great comments, everyone! Ah yes. Hasselbeck. Yet another young woman (b. 1977) in dire need of a proper history lesson. She should be kissing the collective asses of all the women who fought so hard to attain reproductive rights for subsequent generations. Without the Women's Movement, Hasselbeck sure as hell wouldn't be sitting in that chair.

Huge props to Whoopi and company for reminding this chirpy little twit that...

1) Women were dying from illegal, unsafe abortions pre-Roe v. Wade. In fact, many still do in places where abortion remains outlawed.

2) $5,000 ain't $hit when it comes to raising a kid. FWIW, $5K barely covers my mortgage payment and utility bills for ONE MONTH.

What I find most distasteful about Hasselbeck's presence on this show is that every opinion she offers lacks evidentiary support. Frankly, I lost count of how many times the words "I feel" or "I believe" preceded her bizarro utterances. Newsflash: Feelings and beliefs aren't facts, honey. Go look some up then perhaps you'll be able to support your arguments and avoid embarrassing yourself on national TV. Or, better yet, why not stick with your true metier (i.e. reality TV and judging Miss Teen Beauty Pageants)? ;)

Moving on...I wanted to share a newly released title re: women's health with y'all. Said title is Boobs: A Guide to Your Girls by Elizabeth Squires (ISBN 9781580052078). It was released on Sept 28th and is now available via Amazon.com for $10.85.

Please note that I haven't read this book yet but here's an excerpt c/o the Sept. 1st issue of Library Journal: "...discusses the health, sexuality, life stages, and cultural significance of the female breats with a breezy, best-girlfriend approach that might inspire readers to stand tall and throw their shoulders back."

Enjoy! :)

I agree that her presence is sort of a good thing because her "feelings" are shot down mightily with reason and logic - something the average American could stand to witness.

The great thing about EH being the conservative voice on the View is that she has to be one of the *least* persuasive people on TV -- I can't imagine she wins any followers who might be on the fence for any of these issues. I have never seen her "win" an argument because she is never as well-informed as she thinks she is -- she mostly sounds like a supreme idiot anytime she opens her mouth, and her reactions are generally knee-jerk in nature. Those who agree with her most likely already do, but that doesn't make her overwhelming ignorance any less hurtful. Good for Whoopi for not letting is slide.

Er, that should be "female breasts" in my earlier post not "female breats"...Sorry, my bad.

UltraMagnus, the latest abortion stats are available via the Alan Guttmacher Institute: http://www.guttmacher.org/. According to the site, the institute is now collecting stats for 2004-2005; the latest estimates available are for 2001-2003. See http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/2006/08/03/ab_incidence.pdf

On edit: While I concur that including a variety of perspectives tends to enrich any given dialogue, you'd think the producers could find a more eloquent participant. Trouncing someone like Hasselbeck in a debate is like swatting a fly with a Buick. ;)

Peace yo.

I can't see the video because I'm un dialup!

But, I'd like to point out that Whoopi HAS had an abortion.

The horribly long URL to the book, The Choices We Made, in which Whoopi tells her story is here: http://www.amazon.com/Choices-We-Made-Twenty-Five-Abortion/dp/1568581882/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1535885-7831167?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191533412&sr=8-1

If that doesn't work, search Amazon.com for "The Choices We Made."

I can't see the video because I'm un dialup!

But, I'd like to point out that Whoopi HAS had an abortion.

The horribly long URL to the book, The Choices We Made, in which Whoopi tells her story is here: http://www.amazon.com/Choices-We-Made-Twenty-Five-Abortion/dp/1568581882/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1535885-7831167?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1191533412&sr=8-1

If that doesn't work, search Amazon.com for "The Choices We Made."

"2) $5,000 ain't $hit when it comes to raising a kid."

...especially when you don't even get the $5,000 and your kid doesn't get the money until you're mostly done raising her or him.

I can only imagine what goes through Whoopi's mind, every time that womens opens her mouth.

I don't want to join in the Rosie O'Donnell bashing, because the MSM has already done a hell of a job with that. But damn, am I glad that she is gone and Whoopi is in her place. I don't watch The View (no cable), but it looks to me like Whoopi is kicking some serious ass on that show. She is calm, reasoned, knows how to debate with people who disagree with her and/or aren't as smart as she is without screaming (unlike Rosie), and her points are very well-expressed. I am so impressed with her.

I don't think Hillary's plan would be problematic (except for maybe getting some of the nitwits in Congress to fund it). The government already administers the Americorps program, where participants get an approximately $4,700 education award at the end of their term of service that can be used any time in the next seven years. So, the government already has a sort of framework in place for holding education money in accounts until the money can be used, not to mention all the grants and loans students can get from the government.

That? Was a thing of beauty. Good for Whoppi.

Now if only we could get Elizabeth and Ann Coulter to go live on an island somewhere...

I've always loved Whoopi. It's funny, because I was really into the Survivor season that Elizabeth Hasselbeck was on. I wanted her to win (she came in 3rd). However, I was also 13 and wasn't the best judge of character yet.

My feelings about abortion evolved so much when my mom told me that she had an abortion about 10 years before I was born. She and my dad had been married a few years. They were both in grad school, and one of them would have had to drop out and get a job to afford to have a kid. Having a baby then wouldn't have been the end of the world for them, and some people would probably judge my parents for making that decision, but that was so long ago. My parents now have three kids. We're all happy and healthy, and live comfortably. I think the most damage that the anti-choicers do is the guilt trips they lay on the women who have abortions. Fortunately my mom was stronger than that and was able to move on. She got more effective birth control after that, because she didn't want to have to make that decision again.

I was always pro-choice, but finding out this story brought a much more personal level to my feelings. There are so many what ifs that came to mind. What if she had had that baby? Would she have gone back to finish grad school? Would she have been able to afford to have me a decade later?

That's what always makes me so angry when people like Elizabeth Hasselbeck pretend like they know so much about it. Has she had any personal experience with it? Even something as removed as a family member having and abortion before she was even born? It brings such a new perspective to it.

Go Whoopi!

I am in no way agreeing with Hasselbeck but studies (which escape me now, perhaps someone can help back this up) have shown that when the economy is good there are less abortions because women/families are making more money and thus that takes away one reason they would have an abortion (i.e. can't afford it).

Right, economic pressures are among the many (valid!) reasons that some women abort pregnancies. I don't think Whoopi was denying that at all. It was Hasselbeck who was trivializing it by suggesting that maybe we could bribe struggling women into bearing children they can't support, when the only humane response must be to provide economic freedom for those who don't have it.

Also, Cara, I thought Whoopi came pretty close to revealing at least having had to make the decision whether to abort a pregnancy. She was at least openly identifying herself with women in that position and making it clear that any disparaging reaction would be offensive to her personally, that she wasn't going to give Hasselbeck the out of pretending they were talking about some faceless Other Woman.

Too bad Whoopi voiced support of Michael Vick. if she hadn't said that, I'd be hunting her down to hug her.

What a fantastic point for Whoopi to have made. She kept it calm and rational and even an idiot like Hasselback has to get that. EH is also a little insensitive to the fact that Whoopi has had an abortion herself- I just wish she could have brought that up, to be a famous comic/personality and to say on national television to an audience of women that she has had an abortion, thankyouverymuch, and she would appreciate it if EH could stop assigning her motovations.

When it comes to "superficial reasons" to have an abortion, a few things come to mind.

For example: Some women have abortions if they find out their child will be seriously handicapped in some way.

Now, of course you're going to have a ton of people saying that this is discriminating against people who are disabled and I can completely understand where they are coming from. This would probably be considered "superficial" to Elizabeth.

However, there are still a few things to consider when it comes to having a child with a disability. Most parents go into pregnancy and having children understanding that they'll be parenting for about 18 years of their life because, at some point, their child is going to live on their own and become independent. When it comes to having children that are disabled, however, that might not be the case. If your child is born with a disability that prevents them from taking care of themselves, then you'll have to be taking care of that child for the rest of your life. For families who are suffering financially, there's obviously going to be issues about how they will afford their child's medical needs. And if the family already has kids, then there are already other children they are taking care of and must consider how that will effect them.

And if you want to get into issues of discrimination against people who are disabled, what about disabled women who are faced with unwanted pregnancies? Would it be "superficial" for them to chose abortion as a way to avoid putting a strain on their bodies with a child?

I'm just curious about what Elizabeth considers superficial because she probably considers MOST if not ALL abortions to be superficial or "mean". I think there are a lot of reasons that appear to be selfish or superficial. But when you really consider yourself in this situation and think of why someone would make that decision for whatever reason, it can become understandable.

This woman is infuriating, I have to force myself to watch clips like this. The way she talks about middle class- as if she has any clue! I loved the comment she made about how she knows $5,000 "might not" even cover the cost of college tuition- sweetie $5,000 didn't even cover one semester for me!

Liza: Whoopi didn't really voice support for Vick. She just said that the culture that he comes from is one that supports activities like dogfighting. She didn't say dogfighting was right, or that she thought Vick was a peachy keen guy for engaging in that particular culturally-endorsed activity. (Whether she was right or wrong about "the culture" Vick was raised in -- well, that's another issue. She believed that she was right.)

Do you know what she means by "the culture he comes from," the kind where dogfighting is an acceptable activity? I have a pretty good idea. There are some country-ass, backward people in my extended family, people for whom dogfighting and similarly heinous (to me) activities are perfectly acceptable pastimes. If one of them got picked up for running a dogfighting ring, I would probably say something similar to what Whoopi said. Not to exonerate, but to explain.

This show is the worst thing I've ever seen. Between the "math is hard," and "superficial reasons" nonsense, I just wanted to puke.

Whoopi was the only intelligent voice there. Why doesn't SHE run for president?

i know i'm gonna be unpopular here because i personlly dont agree with abortion-but could someone please explain why emergency contraception is considered "abortion?" i would have throught if you wanted to curve the abortion rates you'd give contraceptives and condoms to everyone...would'nt you?!

Sarah Conner - Yes, you would think.

As I understand it, some people argue that EC is a form of abortion because it works by preventing implantation of a a fertilised egg - and these people believe that 'life' began at the point of conception, rather than at the point when this egg implants in the womb and begins to grow (or later, or whatever). Therefore, to hormonally cause the body to reject the fertilised egg, instead of allowing it to implant, is the equivalent of abortion.

BTW, I don't think you needed to identify your own opinions on abortion, as they're not relevant to your question. That doesn't mean you should express them, just that you shouldn't feel obligated. As far as I'm concerned, as long as your opinion motivates your personal choices, and doesn't seek to block the choices of other women, you may and should believe whatever you think is right.

thank you iscah, for clearing that up for me. and i mention my stance because i have read a few comments that if your anti-abortion your anti-women. on the contary. i personally believe however-the productive measure would be to stop demonising women and prevent them becoming pregnant in the first place (which is why i advocate safe sex and contracepives).

Even with "safer" sex practices and contraceptives, there WILL still be abortions. Maybe far fewer but it will be a long time before abortions, legal or illegal, are eradicated. And abstinence-only education has pushed us back years from achieving this goal.

“i mention my stance because i have read a few comments that if your anti-abortion your anti-women. on the contary.�
If you think abortion is immoral, as in, you would never do it yourself nad you *wished* other women didn’t do it, or your goal is to reduce abortions through promotion of sexual education, no, that doesn’t make you anti-woman. However, if your goal is to restrict other women’s access to abortion you are indeed anti-woman.

...erm, i thought i kinda made it clear, sojourner, about my stance on this? although i would say i wish women didnt have to go through it because, like whoopi said-its far from a pleasant experience.

Hey there, Vanessa: I wrote up a reply explaining EC in a bit more depth, and it went into moderation and hasn't come out. Can you help me? Thanks!