i don't think I even get this. Is it supposed to be funny???

And, not to be picky or anything, but it's unprotected heterosexual sex that causes sex...let's see those dumb asses put that on a shirt.

Wait, guys DON'T get pregnant? Damn . . . I guess that shows you how much good my abstinence only education did.

That website contradicts itself so much its nuts. On condoms: "...in the course of one year, 14 out of 100 couples that rely on condoms... get pregnant.." the next point: (still on condoms)"it's like flipping a coin, you have a 50% chance of getting an STD when you use a condom". Surley those odds are at least reversed? If they weren't bull**** to begin with.

Wingnuts don't even credit kids with a brain. And where do they get the money for these sites?

Some of the things they say are true (for example it IS still possible to catch an STD while using a condom) but they seem to fail to recognize how ludicrous it makes them look to go against all of the doctors and activists who KNOW how much good preventative measures can do.

My favorite was this one: "Given all the available programs, it’s possible to raise a child even if your resources are quite limited."

Oh, I get it, so they WANT people who can't afford to have children and don't have the resources raise kids totake advantage of "all the available programs" and live in poverty, with little hope of ever doing anything but scraping by paycheck to paycheck and leaving their children in day care all day so that they can work for $7 an hour. Got it.

This Google ad, below this post, had me cracking up:

Backover Accident Safety
Advice from KIDS & CARS on fatal risk to children from backovers.
www.vehicle-injuries.com

If we don't start treating women like worthless, brainless, wombs-on-legs, how will they be prepared to be kept down for the rest of their life? If you give them sexual freedom, they might want freedom in OTHER spheres.

Clearly, that's just unacceptable. [/gross, icky, made me feel awful just sarcastically typing it rant]

God, I just don't understand humanity sometimes. It's just bumping uglies. Why does it have to determine your worth and your morality and your everything?

Crap crap crap. I'm going to go take my birth control pill now and NOT be pregnant and STILL have sex.

I love how they say that not having sex means you're having control. Not having sex just because you don't want to use contraception is not control, instead I believe using contraception and choosing to have sex is the real control. Fucking morons.

It's disgusting that all their talk about "straight facts" is really just the facts that happen to agree with their personal morality. Under the guise of presenting facts and asking young women probing questions about their decisions, it's really just trying to convince you to abstain from sex until marriage, which is the end game.

Strange that they are severely lacking in adoption "facts." Probably because adoption facts can be pretty depressing. 75% of kids in foster care have been sexually abused, and the number of children being adopted continues to decline.

Ha! Lovely website! I love how it says that every type of abortion is illegal in the United States. I also like how it says that marriage is "every girl's dream." My favorite part is the one that implies that if you live together, you will probably get divorced. They also tell you that when you live together, you have to consider that he may cheat on you, but mentions nothing of that nature in the section about marriage. Thank god I had decent sex ed in High School...ahh, I miss the 90's.

I always love how anti-choice organizations state how abortion can harm you physically and emotionally.

However, they fail to explain that way more women experience complications or die from child birth than abortion. Hasn't there also been a lot of stuff on the news lately about how more women are dying during child birth these days? And no one ever wants to say (even though it's true) that having children can harm you mentally and emotionally.

I know everyone wants to think that having children is always happy and great and that anyone who regrets having their kids is a monster of some sort. But that just isn't realistic.

My favorite part about that website is the section on Living Together. Why is there a picture of a toilet?

I'd like to know when sex education is going to be targeted towards boys as well. Organizations like CareNet (who make that "Pro Knowledge" website) are only perpetuating the sexist belief that women need to have the brains and men just need to have the dicks.

Did you know that butt sex is the leading form of contraception?
-Proknowledge.com

Did you know that in the U.S. it's legal to have an abortion at anytime during a pregnancy, for any reason?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. *stops to catch breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh wait, this lie is actually kind of sad.

Talk about "two Americas."

From the marriage quiz: "It is widely agreed upon that men and women alike are winners when it comes to marriage: guys are thought to be healthier, and women wealthier because of marriage."

...And that's why marriage is "every girl's dream!"

Hahah, amanda, good catch on the strange appropriateness of the Google ads... what's that joke about accidents in the backseat of cars?

The "Sex Causes Babies" t-shirt is obnoxious and patronizing. The "Guys Don't Get Pregnant" shirt, looked at in another way, could be positive - girls should take responsibility for contraceptives because guys don't always have the same incentive and motivation to do so. However, that's obviously not what they meant. What they mean is, "After you get pregnant, we'll judge and shame you for being a slut, and completely forget about the guy who was also involved in making the baby. So keep your legs shut!"

I know it breaks their little patriarchal hearts to hear this, but no. Sex doesn't cause babies. Pregnancy causes babies. There's actually a whole lot that has to happen besides a guy's O face before babies occur.

Okay, I admit that math is not my strongest talent. I can manage the grocery store, balance a checkbook, and that's about it. So I'm probably just missing something here, but if so I'm sure someone here can help me out.

This site admits that 50% of all marriages end in divorce. But, on the section on living together, it says that the divorce rate for couples who live together before marriage is almost 50% higher than for those who don't.

So...at the risk of appearing dumb, what's that mean, exactly? How do those percentages work out? Someone help me, I don't know how to program Excel to figure that one out.

I love the shirt "Men don't get pregnant." I wish that they had a men's size.

As for what anti-choice terrorists think of women, it is plain and simple: women are not human beings. That is exactly what anti-choicers think. And that kind of thinking has resulted in the deaths of nearly 225 million women during pregnancy.

I can't even figure out what they're trying to say with the shirts.
Men don't get pregnant. And? What's the message supposed to be?

In a woman's life, there are thousands of times she can have and make love. But only once or twice or a dozen times in her life does she give birth. So I'd say that's a pretty loose correlation, wouldn't you?

@ Kimmy: They don't give you enough information. They'd have to give you the relative portion of couples in each group before you could solve for each type of couple's divorce rate.

Now this has to be my favorite quote:

"No woman wants an abortion. It's just not what they set out to have happen."

Really? It's not what they set out to happen? Because we're stupid and don't understand what abortion is? Because somehow we were tricked!

Get real.

Sarah, what the shirt I'm discussing is saying is that men don't have to worry about dying from pregnancy, because they can't get pregnant. And that is why I want every woman wearing the shirt, exposing the anti-choice and their reign of terror. If those who are vociferous opponents of abortion have vascetomies like they put laws on women's bodies, then this world would be a much better place.

Sarah, if men could get pregnant, abortion would be legal in the entire 266 day term. That is what I was trying to get to as to why I like the "Men don't get pregnant" shirt.

LindsayPW-
My daughter got pregnant her very first intercourse, without contraception, at the age of 17. At 22, she met a guy at school and they got involved right away. He was a great guy and she chose to go on the pill and enjoy herself. For five years they slept together every weekend and my daughter never got pregnant. Go take your pill and enjoy yourself!

And all this time, I thought babies came from storks.

Seriously though, the t-shirt is technically correct, so I don't see what the controversy is, other than that it's being used by pro-lifers. It's very much in the contingent of "Men don't get pregnant" - which, like the sex = babies shirt, can be negated with surgery/gender identity, much like the sex = babies shirt can be defied with *gasp* a condom.

And I guess a question I want to ask is, if feminists think pro-lifeys don't trust women with their bodies, what's with feminists not trusting women (and to some extent men) with beer? Charismatic consent anyone?

Also - on the Steinem abortion sacrament quote, where is the evidence for this?

Oh, thanks Jovan. I was confused about the source of the shirt. Too much sun today.

I especially love this quote from the site:

"Waiting to have sex also improves your confidence level; it means that you're in charge of the decisions in your life."

Because you can't choose to have sex? I guess all those times I initiated sex with my boyfriend I was being controlled by some unexplainable force.......probably THE DEVIL!

"Waiting to have sex also improves your confidence level; it means that you're in charge of the decisions in your life."

Much like NOT waiting to have sex means you're in charge of the decisions in your life.
That quote is so weak.

Joe, what are you talking about? Evidence for Steinem having made the quote? Or are you saying that Steinem's rhetorical flourish needs to be based in some empirical fact (which is impossible, given that it's a hypothetical statement)?

And on the "charismatic consent" comment, please go fuck yourself. Your glib bullshit doesn't square with the experience of me and several posters here with actual criminal acts perpetrated against us by rapists.

On a less contentious note -- Kimmy, the math works like this...assume you have 20 people who get married, 10 of whom lived together beforehand and 10 of whome did not live together beforehand. If 6 of the 10 who lived together beforehand get divorced and 4 of the 10 who did not live together get divorced, the total divorce rate would be 10 of 20, or 50%, the divorce rate for the people who lived together would be 6 of 10, or 60%, and the divorce rate for the people who did not live together would be 4 of 10, or 40%. 60% = 40% + 20% (which is 50% of 40%), which is how the rate for one could be 50% higher than the rate for the other. Does that make more sense? I have no idea whether their stats have any basis in fact, but that's at least a simplified version of how the math could work.

ekf, high five for telling Joe to go fuck himself before I got the chance, and for not mincing words like I probably would have.

A second high five for your math skills. I think that what Kimmy was actually asking through was what the divorce rate for those who live together before marriage would be, if it's 50% higher than 50%. My guess would be 75% but 1. my math is terrible and 2. that just doesn't sound like it could possibly be true.

KIMMY: "This site admits that 50% of all marriages end in divorce. But, on the section on living together, it says that the divorce rate for couples who live together before marriage is almost 50% higher than for those who don't.

So...at the risk of appearing dumb, what's that mean, exactly?"

A 50% increase means you multiply the original number by 1.5 (i.e., add 50% of the original score to the original score). A 100% increase means

To make it easy, let's assume that there are an equal number of cohabitors and non-cohabitors who get married.

Imagine that 40% of non-cohabitors get divorced.

Imagine that 60% of cohabitors get divorced (60% is a 50% increase over 40%; i.e., 40% multiplied by 1.5).

Whoops. Meant to then say:

A 100% increase means that you multiply the original number by 2 (i.e., add 100% of the original score to the original score).

Aha! Now I get it. Thanks UCLA (and to Kimmy, for asking the question).

My math is even worse than I thought :)

"what's with feminists not trusting women (and to some extent men) with beer?"

Of COURSE we trust women with beer, Joe, what we don't trust is men who would use these womens inebriated state against them. So please stop being an insufferable troll. Date rape/"grey rape" has no place in this discussion.

I hate this sort of crap so much. But then, I'm sure they hate women like me, too. From the "Living Together" section, hilariously illustrated with a toilet, my answers to things to be considered

* How will your family take such news?

I'm an adult. They can deal with it. And, in fact, they were happy, as they have no problem with couples living together before marriage, and they love my husband, or boyfriend as he was then.

* What if they don’t support the idea?

Then that would suck for them. Part of being an adult is being able to make your own decisions. Yes, you can take your family's wishes into account, but in the end, it's your life, and your choice.

* How will it affect you spiritually?

As I hate the term "spiritual," it didn't affect me at all. Be religious or not, have faith or not, don't be "spiritual," it's a fucking wussy description.

* How will it affect your relationships with friends?

Any friends who would judge me in the way you're implying would no longer be my friends.

* Can you still spend as much time with your friends?

Probably not as much, as I have a mature, committed relationship to maintain now. Again, it's part of being an adult in a mature relationship.

* What if you meet another guy you want to date?

I shouldn't be living with someone, if I can't commit to him.

And much like flipping a coin, you have only a 50% chance of being protected from an STD when you use a condom

I clicked the reference they gave, and got a 404 error.

soooooo...someone beat me to it...but i still have to say it...
"No woman wants an abortion. It's just not what they set out to have happen."
uhh...what? so...did they slip and fall and while they were unconscious the doctors just aborted the baby to save them the trouble? uh-huh...right...
how fucking presumptuous of them to assume to know what ALL women? what a bunch of bullshit...and i LOVE their statistics and "facts"...how they carefully leave out just enough info so they can pass it off as true enough...
nice...i can see they really care about women...

BluePencils, good responses to those asinine questions. Thing is - every one of those questions could be asked of a couple (or woman, more accurately) about to get married (rather than live together).
Your parents might disapprove of your fiance. Your friends might disapprove. And it's more likely that you'd retreat from your circle of friends upon getting married than you would if you were just living together. Why would moving in with your partner mean you could no longer see your friends? Unless your partner is abusive... which could happen with marriage, too! God they're so fucking stupid they make me feel violent.

Ah yes, the anti-choice litmus test - can you replace the word "abortion" with the word "pregnancy/birth" throughout the speal and thereby turn it around on its head, AND make the consequences sound as bad or worse? Try it with the "abortion" link. Why can't people provide advice to women that offers the possible so-called side effects of both sides?!

You know your information is sound when you have such scientific terms as, "loop-shaped knife" and "long tube". Also gotta love how they warn that an abortion may negatively "impact your relationship with God".

Some of their info is not just misleading, but outright false. For example, they list the already discredited correlation between abortion and breast cancer, and the correlation between abortion and future preterm births. My God. You know, if someone rejects sound science, then okay, whatever, but admit it. Don't go around making up shit and then call that the "real"science.

PS - the "Herpes kills dates" t-shirt has gotta be one of the best.

What really makes my blod boil is that the info CareNet and other so called "crisis pregnancy resources" provide information that is not medically accurate (ie they lie). I am not entirely clear as to why they are not regulated around that,probably something to do with the fact that they don't provide medical care. To add insult to injury they are taxpayer funded. So we are wasting our money funding, and in that way validating, organizations that harm women, all because abstinence only messages and "crisis pregnancy centers" work politically.

It scares me that a movement that operates by lying is so accepted.

:(
google ads is putting crisis pregnancy center ads just above this entry....

i love the headless-woman-as-billboard thing, too. that's just all class.

Uh, since my husband and I had to do IVF (several times) to knock me up, I would like to put forth the theory that no, sex does not necessarily equal babies.

"My life is not guided by superstition."
- SarahMC September 10, 2007

"The Eternal Father command that you stop these murders at once! You will not destroy the lives of the unborn. Human life is sacred in the eyes of your God. No man has the right to destroy a life. The Father, He sends this life to you, and only He will decide when it will return back to the Kingdom.
"Do not, My children, be deceived by the words of the evil ones about you who cry to you of no space left for man. There is space, for My Father has a plan for every life He sends." - Our Lady, August 5, 1971

http://www.tldm.org/directives/d23.htm

uhh...what?

first off...one must first assume that for these posts to have any bearing on us whatsoever...one would have to assume a belief in this "God"...of which i have none...

i am w/ saramc...

and uhh...how is jesus making quotes in 1987? (yes...morbid curiosity...i followed the link...silly me...

All I can do is shake my head. I mean, are these people serious? Marriage is great for people, but living together a woman will feel pressure to have sex or become abused? WHAT? Can someone please explain to me how there is such a big difference in marriage and living together? What living together isn't blessed in some church? Oh yeah and don't some women WANT to have sex? Also I love how it says most women enjoy being mothers even if they didn't plan their pregnancies, that it's a challenging yet rewarding. Why are they encouraging motherhood if they have an anti-pre-martial agenda. Shouldn't they be saying how hard parenting is?

So according to this site, protection against pregnancy is useless, abortion is dangerous, help is there if women have children. Is this some kind of baby factory conspiracy?

Mariainmass, you got anything original to say or do you plan on spamming the site w/ quotes from other people?

from the site that miriaminmass linked to:

BOMBS
"These interlopers upon the serenity of the United States have dark skins.... With their plans there will be bombs placed in strategic places and many shall die at the hands of these ruffians....
"One big reason for permitting this disaster in New York would be the abortion mills throughout the city and the country." - Jesus, October 1, 1988

No that's not completely fucking racist, psycho bullshit. In fact I've seen the light! I mean, if JESUS said it, it's gotta be true. Does he email you these quotes directly???

Weirdly enough, all their STD statistics seem to assume your partner is infected, which may or may not be the case. The more people use condoms in the general population, the less likely that is - but they don't want you to know that, do they?

I've noticed a nest of cultural problems keeping people from getting tested and treated for STDs, which, if we could counteract them, would work wonders for the overall sexual health of the population. I've seen both young men and young women refuse to even take the tests because they're afraid their parents will find out. The kind of trumped up sex-fear we're seeing on this site doesn't exactly help to alleviate that situation.

Screw this. I want a shirt that says "Abstinence only education causes babies."

Now this has to be my favorite quote:

"No woman wants an abortion. It's just not what they set out to have happen."

Really? It's not what they set out to happen? Because we're stupid and don't understand what abortion is? Because somehow we were tricked!

Get real.

Actually, I agree with that statement. Not in the way you're interpreting it, though, which is probably the way they mean it.

No woman wakes up one day and goes "you know what would be great? An abortion. I should totally get pregnant today, just so I can have one later.

Or hey, better yet, the Sarah Silverman joke, "My boyfriend and I want to have an abortion. But we're having trouble getting pregnant."

I know I'm late with this, but I don't have a working computer at home right now, so I have to post from work.

Thanks to efk and UCLA for the help on the math. I, like Cara, kept coming up with 75%, and I knew that wasn't right. I was forgetting that the living-togethers were part of the "all marriage" group, not a separate segment. Silly of me. Makes much more sense now.

Which isn't to say that the site isn't still utterly ridiculous (the whole "living together" section seemed like an argument against getting married to me, if they think that's what an non-legally-formalized committment gets you). But at least now I understand what they were saying.

The website didn't let me build my "dream guy" due to a computer error. Does that mean I can't have sex?

I followed the link to the crazy 'Jesus' quotes website, and found out that Jesus blames AIDS on abortion. Clearly as soon a women are no longer in charge of their reproductive lives, AIDS will cease and all will be right with the world. It amazes me how quickly the Bible thumping crazies hijack Jesus' mouth and use it to their own political ends. Maybe they forgot the part where Jesus was buddies with prostitutes and criminals. Maybe they censored out the parts of the Bible about tolerance--you know, the New Testament? AIDS is not a divine scourage sent to punish women for having abortions. But if all these abstinence-only idiots don't know how to use condoms and catch a little of that AIDS, you probably won't hear me complaining. Laughing, maybe.

In the sex section "remember not everyone is doing it", I like the pic of the girl with the mid drift top trying to talk her friend into having sex with the two guys in the background.

I tried to make my dream guy an alternative eccentric who is interested in women's studies, and the site wouldn't let me:(

Is anyone else contacting these people? I feel like calling them out on their statistical/factual innaccuracies. This kind of crap is dangerous.

And did anyone else catch the horrible comment on the 'living together' section that claims women who live together are so much more likely to be domestically abused? Apparently, if you have a ring on your finger though, you won't be abused, since nothing is mentioned on the 'marriage' section about the statistics for married abused women. What a joke.

Pregnancy can be harmful to you, both physically and emotionally.

Having a baby can cause side effects like anger, sexual dysfunction, anxiety, sleeplessness, or relationship problems.

Physically, babies can cause many different problems, such as infection, heavy bleeding, uterine damage, and cervical tears.

If a pregnacy is unsuccessful (and it does happen) there could be more complications. It could even require surgery.

Remember, having a baby is not the only way out. You have choices. There are people out there willing to offer you medical care and counseling.

Pregnancy can be harmful to you, both physically and emotionally.

Having a baby can cause side effects like anger, sexual dysfunction, anxiety, sleeplessness, or relationship problems.

Physically, babies can cause many different problems, such as infection, heavy bleeding, uterine damage, and cervical tears.

If a pregnacy is unsuccessful (and it does happen) there could be more complications. It could even require surgery.

Remember, having a baby is not the only way out. You have choices. There are people out there willing to offer you medical care and counseling.

That "Guys Don't Get Pregnant" shirt could be manipulated in so many ways to give a pro-choice message.

Why is it that anti-choicers think so little of young women?

It only seems puzzling because you're asking the question backwards; if you rephrase it as "Why are people who think very little of young women anti-choice?" it becomes rather obvious.