Yes, forcing men to wear garbage bag skirts is the definition of feminazi, natch.

Things that I look for in a car: cup holders, nice CD player or iPod connector and a good stereo system, good fuel economy...

BUT WHERE WILL I KEEP MY NAIL POLISH AND MAKE UP?!

What do I look for in a car? Well, emphatically, not a truck. I look for small economy cars that might take a bit longer to completely destroy the world than some of the behemoths that are on the road nowadays.

Nice of them to make sure trucks are fit for Donna Reed. I wonder why they don't just hire as many women designers as men? They wouldn't have to treat women like an alien species if they tried that for a change.

Yeah, cause of course it's a shaggy-legged, booby-flapping concern to sell more and more poison spewing, death mobiles to women.

Gaaah, so frustrating. Except not really, cause trucks are stupid if you aren't hauling something. But regardless!

Well I do think skirts can be difficult with regard to trucks, I don't know if it is exactly a major concern for women everywhere though.

There is also the issue of women being on average smaller than men. It would be nice if cars could be customized better to the height of the driver. This would help people at extremes of the height spectrum, whether male or female.(I am a large woman, larger than most men, so I would want a car designed for a tall person. These do not exist.)

I'm going to look at this as glass-half-full. At least they're trying to appreciate that there are differences.

Of course, another option is to hire more female engineers and designers and let them have at it.

What am I looking for? Something that's easy to get in and out of, but not too low to the ground - I'm short, and as much as I love my mother's Mustang, I can see the road better and I feel safer in my step-father's F150. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. Also, an adjustable steering wheel, because I have to pull the seat up very close for my legs to reach the pedals, and in some cars, this means the wheel digs into my legs. Adjustable head-rests - some cars I've driven have the headrest at a point I'm sure is comfortable and neck-appropriate for a taller person, but juts into the back of my head and makes me sit at an awkward angle.

Other than that? A stereo system that I can hook my iPod into. Reliable engine that won't break down on the highway in the middle of the night. Fuel efficiency - hey, dudes, we make $0.70 on your dollar; we don't have as much expendable income for gas. I wouldn't actually mind a purse well between the two front seats; I don't have tapes or CDs (see earlier iPod note), so making it easier to store other kinds of things where those were previously kept would be great.

I'm going to look at this as glass-half-full. At least they're trying to appreciate that there are differences.

Of course, another option is to hire more female engineers and designers and let them have at it.

What am I looking for? Something that's easy to get in and out of, but not too low to the ground - I'm short, and as much as I love my mother's Mustang, I can see the road better and I feel safer in my step-father's F150. Somewhere in the middle would be nice. Also, an adjustable steering wheel, because I have to pull the seat up very close for my legs to reach the pedals, and in some cars, this means the wheel digs into my legs. Adjustable head-rests - some cars I've driven have the headrest at a point I'm sure is comfortable and neck-appropriate for a taller person, but juts into the back of my head and makes me sit at an awkward angle.

Other than that? A stereo system that I can hook my iPod into. Reliable engine that won't break down on the highway in the middle of the night. Fuel efficiency - hey, dudes, we make $0.70 on your dollar; we don't have as much expendable income for gas. I wouldn't actually mind a purse well between the two front seats; I don't have tapes or CDs (see earlier iPod note), so making it easier to store other kinds of things where those were previously kept would be great.

Well, the whole "breaking a nail" part is completely absurd, but they have a good point as far as fumbling with a baby, a stroller, 8 bags of groceries, a car seat, and and a purse. Just add a few older kids in there and you have my daily routine!

Personally, I do look for features that make these things easier in a car. For example, I want to be able to get the groceries in the car without jumping up and down to reach the hatch.

Also, alot of suv's are clearly not designed for ease of use regarding getting a few small children in and out.

Ducking down and doing a small maze in a skirt with a screaming toddler isn't exactly easy.

Neither is balancing over the second row while trying to get the stupid latch system to actually work.

I look for ease of movement around the back seats, convienance of storage, and an overall shorter car that doesn't involve hurdling to get into.

If they are really trying to address these issues, I would be happy. If they're just going to make the stearing wheel have a happy little fan that blow drys my nails...well not so much.

Used Japanese roadsters. Better fuel economy. More fun to drive. A dream to work on.

Well, the whole "breaking a nail" part is completely absurd, but they have a good point as far as fumbling with a baby, a stroller, 8 bags of groceries, a car seat, and and a purse. Just add a few older kids in there and you have my daily routine!

Personally, I do look for features that make these things easier in a car. For example, I want to be able to get the groceries in the car without jumping up and down to reach the hatch.

Also, alot of suv's are clearly not designed for ease of use regarding getting a few small children in and out.

Ducking down and doing a small maze in a skirt with a screaming toddler isn't exactly easy.

Neither is balancing over the second row while trying to get the stupid latch system to actually work.

I look for ease of movement around the back seats, convienance of storage, and an overall shorter car that doesn't involve hurdling to get into.

If they are really trying to address these issues, I would be happy. If they're just going to make the stearing wheel have a happy little fan that blow drys my nails...well not so much.

I will say that I can't get into my husband's Jeep when I'm in a skirt.. unless I hike it up to my hips and flash everyone behind me.

I read somewhere that Saturn(?) designed a car for women, and they had the headrests look like donuts so you could lean back with a ponytail. Now THAT is a good idea.

Yeah, somehow none of those things are "routinely what I do everyday." But thanks for asking, GM! Fuckers. This makes me pleased that my car is a Ford . . . until next week when there's a story showing how they're just as bad.

"They had to put the baby in a car seat and buckle them in, fold up the stroller, pull up the liftgate and stow the stroller, put grocery bags in the back. They then had to walk around the vehicle and step into it not using the running board. "

They should have just stopped here. I mean, seriously, when was the last time you weren't able to use a key fob because your nails were too long?

I know not everyone here agrees with me on this, but the issues with getting kids and their junk in and out of a car is an important factor to women buyers. The other things such as an ipod holder and gas mileage are important to everyone. We can debate the social inplications of this, but it doesn't change the fact that it's true. Obviously, not all women need these features, but women are still the ones doing most of the kid-hauling and grocery shopping, so quite a few will.

Personally, I am thrilled that they are trying to address the problems that I have always had with larger cars. I just don't understand why they have to add the sexist press on nails to skrew it up.

I really like fake nails and hate the fact that I snap them ALL THE TIME removing the damn gas cap and, actually, would love it if there was some way to avoid that. I also scratch the hell out of the car right where the door handle opens because of them.

I agree that it's totally unfortunate that 20 years ago she'd be a FEMINAZI for even TRYING to assert some women-issues into the brainstorming session. I also agree that there are ADDITIONAL issues that don't have to do with what women wear and do as mothers- what seems to be missing is the size issue as Lauren said though I'm a big ol' Polish girl who has her seat back as FAR as it can go. But there is something to be said for the "worst case scenario" with some things- which is me, in a skirt, heels and fake nails, trying to get my kid out of the car with a diaper bag, purse and stroller I'm trying to keep from rolling away. Maybe that makes me a stereotype for that day?

I really like fake nails and hate the fact that I snap them ALL THE TIME removing the damn gas cap and, actually, would love it if there was some way to avoid that. I also scratch the hell out of the car right where the door handle opens because of them.

I agree that it's totally unfortunate that 20 years ago she'd be a FEMINAZI for even TRYING to assert some women-issues into the brainstorming session. I also agree that there are ADDITIONAL issues that don't have to do with what women wear and do as mothers- what seems to be missing is the size issue as Lauren said though I'm a big ol' Polish girl who has her seat back as FAR as it can go. But there is something to be said for the "worst case scenario" with some things- which is me, in a skirt, heels and fake nails, trying to get my kid out of the car with a diaper bag, purse and stroller I'm trying to keep from rolling away. Maybe that makes me a stereotype for that day?

Lauren, I agree with you (sans the nails issue because, sadly, I still deal with that). I think that putting kids in the car is a mom's issue for sure, but as soon as I finished typing my last post I thought of my partner trying to get our daughter into the car too- without hitting his head or contorting in strange positions. I've seen some mini-vans that don't think through the car seat issue. And with kids having to be in them until they are 8 years old, it's an issue for the life of a car in a family in some cases.

I rarely wear skirts or heels, and I don't think I've ever broken a nail in a car.

What I want is a car that doesn't make me feel like a freak. I'm an average sized woman, but most cars make me feel like a garden gnome, and the adjustments necessary to put the pedals and controls within reach only emphasize the fact that Most Cars Are Designed For Man-Sized People, which is annoying.

When I bought a car recently, I picked the one that made me feel like a driver, not a secondary design afterthought. I also chose a car that didn't force me to move the seat into a position that placed me too close to the airbag, which is kind of a big deal, I hear.

So the differences between men and women are:
a) cosmetic changes all women everywhere always always perform to make their bodies different from the natural, male norm,
and b) that all women have babies and are responsible for these babies and for supplying groceries to this jolly little family. Men won't ever go through these horrors.

Wow. All this theorising, and it turns out that all there is to gender is fucking with your body and picking up after other people's sperm. All women have ever needed is cars that make it easier for them to do those two things.

Lili, sorry I was so dismissive of the nail issue. It was a knee jerk reaction based on the fact that I havn't worn them in probably 10 years and really have forgotten how prohibative they can be.

I think the idea of the men wearing glue-on nails in light of the "real" problems got me all huffy, but I can definitely understand not wanting to break a nail off at the gas pump. Not only does it suck, it hurts.

I just jumped the gun on posting while I was a bit miffed about the whole "playing women" thing, which for some reason the nails signified more than the other things. Maybe because after all the "woman" went through, she was judged based on if her nails were intact? I don't know.

The first image that came to my mind is a bunch of office men letting out their transvestite tendencies.

After that...what do I want in a car? First, I like stick shifts where I have greater control over the steering. It has to drive nice. Second, it has to have enough space for my families' knees, (we're all tall), and all my stuff - so a big trunk is a plus. A nice stereo is good.

If they need to put on girl's clothes to figure this out, that is their problem. Tee hee.

Actually, I think its a good idea - while it may not be representative of every woman, I think its great that they are addressing a large part of the market that has been previously ignored. And a good place to put the purse? genius!

As for cars making women feel small - I think that they are designed fairly well, and probably make most men feel really large. I'm 5'9, so tall for a woman, but not huge, and i always have my seat back as far as it can go, and hate how cramped i feel in most cars - so seeing as I'm around the average height for guys - i would imagine that at least half of guys feel like they dont fit well in their cars either...

Women are expected to do these cosmetic things, and it's not sexist to consider them. Some workplaces require women to wear pantyhose every day, so it would be nice if your car didn't have snags that they get caught on.

I also these differences should be taken into account when promoting something like bicycling as the ideal commuting method. It's just not feasible for many women who have to dress up even a little bit for work (skirts, dry-clean-only clothes, hairstyles that preclude being caught in the rain or taking a shower when you get to work) or have to stay late and don't feel safe bicycling home at night.

Hey, if you don't carry a purse, have short nails, wear jeans, and don't have kids, then good for you, but you don't use a car differently from a man (maybe you're shorter than the average guy, but they don't make cars for short men, either), so why would they need to do anything special to meet your needs that they can't already figure out?

It isn't men who wear skirts in our society -- not in the kind of numbers they need to worry about selling to. It isn't men who fold up strollers and run grocery errands for a family of four. So men are not likely to think about the challenges involved in these things. This exercise is not about saying "all women have skirts, long nails, and transport children"; it is saying, "you, the male car designer, probably do not have to deal with wearing skirts and long nails while transporting children, but many female customers do, so think about them when you design."

Honestly, I get so pissed off at people on this site sometimes. Descriptivism -- "in our society, many women do this" -- is not prescriptivism -- "in our society, all women should do this." The car design exercise isn't about what women should do, it's about what some women *do* do, and how to account for that in designing cars.

And yes, solving the problem by having more female car designers would work even better than teaching the men empathy for the small bullshit women deal with, but they probably need engineering degrees, so how about we work on getting more teen girls into the pipeline instead of bitching the car company out for working with who's already available. Aren't something like only 15% of the people with engineering degrees in the US women?

Car companies trying to design for women is a good thing. Not women like you, or even me, or any other one individual woman; women like all women, which is to say a range that includes a fuck of a lot of people who have long nails, wear skirts, and/or care for small children. Yes, the stereotype that "women", the generic category, is made up of people who do all these things at the same time, all the time, is obnoxious; but the purpose of the exercise is to open men's eyes to petty small inconveniences that most women will deal with at some point in their lives, not to say that this is how all women behave all the time.

Also, specifically to Thene: caring for your own children is not "picking up after other people's sperm" unless MRAs are correct that child support is paying for other people's crotch droppings. They are half your DNA, all of your physiological effort in bearing them, your energy and food in making them milk if you breastfed, and mostly your effort in raising them; in fact in my opinion most kids are about 75% their mother's, and describing caring for someone you have so much invested in as "someone else's sperm" is frankly disgusting. In fact, as a stepmother who really is caring for two kids that biologically aren't mine at all, I find the phrasing disgusting even as it applies to my non-bio kids, who arguably are both someone else's sperm and someone else's egg. Please try to find a way to make your points that is not hideously insulting to mothers and children.

The only thing I don't like about my car (a small 4-door sedan) is that there's nowhere to put my purse. I'd love that to be a design consideration in new vehicles. I don't care what methods they use to figure it out.

Honestly, I get so pissed off at people on this site sometimes. Descriptivism -- "in our society, many women do this" -- is not prescriptivism -- "in our society, all women should do this." The car design exercise isn't about what women should do, it's about what some women *do* do, and how to account for that in designing cars.

And yes, solving the problem by having more female car designers would work even better than teaching the men empathy for the small bullshit women deal with, but they probably need engineering degrees, so how about we work on getting more teen girls into the pipeline instead of bitching the car company out for working with who's already available. Aren't something like only 15% of the people with engineering degrees in the US women?

Um, sorry if it didn't come across this way, but I was supporting the company for doing this (i.e. "glass-half-full"!), at least until more women break into the engineering field. I only made the comment because I know women who already do have mechanical engineering degrees still face a lot of problems breaking into and getting promoted within the industry; that if they started suggesting design changes designed for women, their (asshat, entitled) co-workers would snicker and roll their eyes and make stupid comments about "women and their purses" or "women and their nails", so they feel pressure to not speak up from a female perspective.

In short:

a) More women should seek education and careers in engineering,

b) Women who already have engineering degrees should be hired, promoted, and given license to speak from the female perspective without derision,
and

c) Until these things become the norm, I'm totally OK with giving men a kick in the ass and making them drive a mile in our shoes, so to speak.

I wonder why a woman inclined or required to wear extremely restrictive clothing while simultaneously caring for small children would be tempted to buy a large truck? A smaller mini-van or station wagon would be a much more reasonable choice. Do you think the designers also come to that conclusion after their day of dress-up?

If I was wrangling small children to, say, a wedding, I would hope that I had access to a four-door car with well-functioning seatbelts and plenty of safety features. It would also be nice to be able to push a button on my keyring to unlock doors and unlatch the gas cap or trunk, so I wouldn't mess up my nails. All reasonable expectations, I assume.

Unfortunately, since I'm tall I would also like extra head space and leg room. I guess you can't please everyone.

I think the whole having to wear skirts and press on nails is taking it to the extreme. Women should be able to design a car that is more comfortable for us. I don't think that a man dressed in a garbage bag skirt and heels with gloves on is quite the same. Hire more women designers to get a better idea of what women want in a car!!

As for what I look for in a car, I look for comfort and something that I can drive for a while. I do not have kids yet, but the thought has crossed my mind and I want to be able to get my kids in and out in an easy manner. I also want to have plenty of room for everything that will come along with kids. My fiance is tall and I know we will probably have tall kids so I want to have enough room for him and the kids in the car as well. I have a small car right now and I feel like other cars don't always see me on the road so having a vehicle that sits a little higher would be nice. I have looked into an F-150 and Dakota and like both models. I feel comfortable in them and know that I would have enough room for everything.

I think the whole press on nails just pushed the whole research over the top. Why should they have been judged on whether or not they broke or lost a finger nail? Not all women wear them and it was a bit stereotypical!! They should just hire more women to design and build the cars if they want to know what women truly want in a car. A man in a skirt and heels can not do that!

"Yes, the stereotype that 'women', the generic category, is made up of people who do all these things at the same time, all the time, is obnoxious; but the purpose of the exercise is to open men's eyes to petty small inconveniences that most women will deal with at some point in their lives, not to say that this is how all women behave all the time." Well said, Alara. I no longer have to wear suits and heels (what I used to refer to as "my lawyer costume") to work, but recall it being difficult to navigate into a lot of cars with them on. These days, I look for a car that is easy to get kids in and out of - and I can tell you that such cars are in short supply.

It is true, if unfortunate, that most men do not take these things into consideration until they are forced to spend a few hours role-playing "stereotypical" women. Some stereotypes - e.g., women are the ones taking care of kids - are based in reality! (And it seems that even some feministing readers wear fake nails!)

I also hated the Mel Gibson movie (because it was just a bad movie, mainly) but I did appreciate that it made the point that the average woman lives a very different daily life than a man, and if it takes Mel shaving his legs and becoming exasperated at the ridiculous amount of effort required for traditional female grooming to make that point, then I guess I'm OK with it.

Rather than criticizing a car company for acknowledging that women use their product differently than men and responding to (some of) those differences, I think our energies would be better spent letting the car companies know what things we'd like to see in addition to what they've already identified.

I'm surprised by Akeeyu Buttmansion's experience as a garden gnome--I'm only 5'6" (though with longish legs) and my seat's all the way back just like Raanne's. Some high-selling models, like the Corolla, make me feel as if my knees are hitting my front teeth. Does anyone know of any studies of gendered discomfort with car design? I'm really interested in learning more.

"Yes, the stereotype that 'women', the generic category, is made up of people who do all these things at the same time, all the time, is obnoxious; but the purpose of the exercise is to open men's eyes to petty small inconveniences that most women will deal with at some point in their lives, not to say that this is how all women behave all the time." Well said, Alara. I no longer have to wear suits and heels (what I used to refer to as "my lawyer costume") to work, but recall it being difficult to navigate into a lot of cars with them on. These days, I look for a car that is easy to get kids in and out of - and I can tell you that such cars are in short supply.

It is true, if unfortunate, that most men do not take these things into consideration until they are forced to spend a few hours role-playing "stereotypical" women. Some stereotypes - e.g., women are the ones taking care of kids - are based in reality! (And it seems that even some feministing readers wear fake nails!)

I also hated the Mel Gibson movie (because it was just a bad movie, mainly) but I did appreciate that it made the point that the average woman lives a very different daily life than a man, and if it takes Mel shaving his legs and becoming exasperated at the ridiculous amount of effort required for traditional female grooming to make that point, then I guess I'm OK with it.

Rather than criticizing a car company for acknowledging that women use their product differently than men and responding to (some of) those differences, I think our energies would be better spent letting the car companies know what things we'd like to see in addition to what they've already identified.

I don't understand why the car company had to have a man wear a skirt, heels, fake nails, and deal with kids, stroller, and groceries in order to know what women want in a car. Wouldn't it have made more sense for the women to tell them what they want? Why judge them on how many nails they broke or lost? Not all women wear them and it was a bit stereotypical.

As for what I look for in a car, I look for something that will be comfortable for me to drive, has a good stereo, and has enough leg room for my fiance to ride in. I have a small car that sits low to the ground. I am not tall by any means (5'6") but even I have a hard time getting in and out of my car sometimes. I also feel that even though I drive a bright red car, some people don't see me all the time. I would like something a little taller so that I can actually be seen on the road (had a few close calls with almost rearending people because they pull out in front of me). My fiance has a jeep and sometimes even when I just have jeans on I have a difficult time getting in it. I can't get into his car without using the running boards. I've only ridden in it once with a skirt on and that was an interesting experience...I had to contort myself so I was flashing the whole world when I got in and out of the Jeep.

I guess putting the men in a garbage bag skirt kind of gives them an idea of what it is like for women to get in and out of a vehicle with a skirt on, but it will never give them the full experience of it. One day in a skirt will not give them any idea of what it is like on a day-to-day basis to be a woman getting in and out of a vehicle. Hire more women designers and engineers if they truly want to know what it is like.

I bought my car because I understood how it worked, was able to drive it despite my long legs/short arms configuration, expected it to be reliable and long lived, liked the way it handles hills and curves, could get a monitor in its box into the car, and felt that its gas mileage was ok though not great.

Physical differences between people (not just men and women) do make a huge difference in cars. I was never able to drive my husband's car because there was seat/wheel adjustment that would allow me to reach the clutch and steering wheel at the same time.

The short skirts and only women haul babies concept is stupid - BUT - a lot of cars _are_ ill designed for kid hauling, and many women do wear tight skirts to work or social events. If I wore my MIL's style of suit to work, I'd by gum want a car that I could get into of a morning without acrobatics. Now if we could just convince them that better seat belt adjustments would be even more attractive than finger nail guards...

So yay for noticing that they have women customers. Boo for lack of imagination Boo for their apparent lack of women auto engineers. [I just don't see them going through such exercise with a mixed gender group.]

In high school, on a whim, I joined an organization called FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Techology), where I was part of a team that built robots to compete on the national level.

I didn't become an engineer in the end, but three of my female friends who joined, did.

I've got to wonder what it would have been like if they had invited female participants of FIRST and similar student engineering groups to come out and work with the engineers on these problems.

One of the reasons many women don't go into engineering is because they have a lack of contacts and support from people (even men) who are already working in the industry.

I guess, in the end, I wish people were more creative with solving these problems.

And, as far as what I'm looking for in a car, how about a sign in the trunk to put up next to me when I'm changing a tire that says "No matter how many times you say, 'Let me take care of that, sweetheart,' I'm not going to let you change my tire for me, thank you very much."

In high school, on a whim, I joined an organization called FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Techology), where I was part of a team that built robots to compete on the national level.

I didn't become an engineer in the end, but three of my female friends who joined, did.

I've got to wonder what it would have been like if they had invited female participants of FIRST and similar student engineering groups to come out and work with the engineers on these problems.

One of the reasons many women don't go into engineering is because they have a lack of contacts and support from people (even men) who are already working in the industry.

I guess, in the end, I wish people were more creative with solving these problems.

And, as far as what I'm looking for in a car, how about a sign in the trunk to put up next to me when I'm changing a tire that says "No matter how many times you say, 'Let me take care of that, sweetheart,' I'm not going to let you change my tire for me, thank you very much."

I'd be willing to bet you good money that as soon as they finished this exercise, the person in charge said something like "Now, not every woman is going to have every single one of these things going on all at the same time, right?" They combined a bunch of stereotypes into one exercise, and frankly, that made it a better experience for the guys to see what the point of the whole flipping thing was. I do about half of the things on that list regularly. Even if I don't wear press-on nails, there are plenty of women who do. I thought feminism was supposed to be for *all* women, not just the ones who don't wear makeup or skirts, or have kids, or do anything "stereotypically feminine". Lighten up.

I'd be willing to bet you good money that as soon as they finished this exercise, the person in charge said something like "Now, not every woman is going to have every single one of these things going on all at the same time, right?" They combined a bunch of stereotypes into one exercise, and frankly, that made it a better experience for the guys to see what the point of the whole flipping thing was. I do about half of the things on that list regularly. Even if I don't wear press-on nails, there are plenty of women who do. I thought feminism was supposed to be for *all* women, not just the ones who don't wear makeup or skirts, or have kids, or do anything "stereotypically feminine". Lighten up.

I own an 87 Volkswagen Vanagon and an 86 Honda Prelude. I love them because I can work on them myself. I don't do the Vanagon electrical stuff though, it's a nightmare. I can go camping in the van and the Honda is super fast and awesome. That is all.

I own an 87 Volkswagen Vanagon and an 86 Honda Prelude. I love them because I can work on them myself. I don't do the Vanagon electrical stuff though, it's a nightmare. I can go camping in the van and the Honda is super fast and awesome. That is all.

sorry bout teh double post XC

Exercises where you are forced outside of your assumptions are good for anybody anywhere. It helps the creative process. So getting a bunch of male designers to experience high heels and skirts, that's fine. Car designers should know what it's like trying to work a clutch with heels. They should also do exercises that help them see what it's like to function as a particularly short person or tall person. Good designers should look at their designs from the perspective of as many people as possible. It should improve their thinking, their design and their overall creativity.

As for what I want in a car... seat belts that accommodate boobs. I'm on the busty side, and most shoulder harnesses cut right across the top of a boob and then slide up to my neck. It's annoying. Space for a purse between the seats would be great. Rear hatches that close easily because women have less upper body strength, particularly in the triceps. And for those times when I do wear skirts, I would like to be able to get in and out of the car without flashing anyone.

Honestly, I get so pissed off at people on this site sometimes. Descriptivism -- "in our society, many women do this" -- is not prescriptivism -- "in our society, all women should do this." The car design exercise isn't about what women should do, it's about what some women *do* do, and how to account for that in designing cars.

AMEN!

How about what I wish my beloved Prius had for me?
* The headrest from Volvo's experimental car so that when I have a ponytail on, I can sit all the way back;
* A decent place to put my purse so I can reach it when I need it and not resort to insane maneuvers;
* iPod connection
* Easier latch spots for the car seat;
* Heck, built in booster seats for kids over 4;
* Built in places for groceries;

As for the skirt thing, my car is pretty low to the ground, that it's not a problem. But I thank the goddess it's not. And thank you for the lighted mirror for my lip tint. I do wish we had AC'd glove compartments. Not for lipstick, but for chap stick. I need to have one everywhere in my life and having one in my car during the summer would be brilliant!

Other then a lot of good things that have been mentioned, my biggest problem with cars is that i have trouble with space. I'm not horribly tiny, but I'm on the smaller side (5'3). I have such problems reaching the pedals, a lot of times it's dangerous how close I have to be to the airbag. The best solution I can think of is to have both a seat that moves and have the pedals move as well (I think there are cars that have this but the seats don't move).

I think it is a great idea to have the engineers put in the time to better understand women customers. It's a great practice for those who are designing a product to put themselves into their customers' situation. Once they have a prototype, I would imagine a company putting in this sort of effort will have test groups of women try out the product and give feedback to refine the design.

For those who are saying that the company should hire more female design engineers, I agree entirely, but it's not necessarily all that simple. I graduated in Mechanical Engineering two years ago, with an emphasis in combustion, which fits very well into the auto industry. Unfortunately, I was quite literally the only graduate female in that emphasis at my (large) university. There are very few women who have any interest in going into such fields, and even fewer who are willing to move to Detroit to design cars after graduation. I can say from experience that most of these companies do jump at the chance to hire and retain technically competent women. There are just not very many of them out there. Get girls interested in engineering, and companies won't have to resort to putting their employees in drag to get them to understand our needs.

I just bought a truck and this is my crazy list: 4x4. extended cab. cd player. AC or power windows. Something that handled as nicely as my previous S10. Low miles, good mileage. Automatic, not because I cannot drive stick, but because I have bad knees and I cannot always drive stick without being in pain.

How is that different from what a man would want?

It's worth remembering some of these things can carry serious safety risks: It's possible for high heels to become wedged under the gas pedal, preventing you from taking your foot off the gas or braking, and this has been known to cause serious accidents. I had a terrifying experience with this once (fortunately I was able to slip my foot out of the shoe in time to avoid an accident). Now I drive barefoot if I'm wearing high heels. I'm very short and have to sit very close to the steering wheel for my feet to reach the pedals. The last time I rented a car, when I was returning it, the guy checking me in took one look at the seat and told me that if I'd gotten in an accident where the airbag deployed, it would have killed me. I read an article once about a woman who was unable to escape a rapist because she couldn't close the power windows without starting her car, and that gave him enough time to get in the car.

But why does considering what parents need have to mean morphing into women? What kind of chauvinist men working at GM would never put their kids or strollers or groceries into their car unless in an exercise where they have to be dressed like women?

I worked for a major auto company for years and was always thrilled when R&D would pull me -- one of the only women in the building -- aside and ask me, say, to lift a bag over the tailgate of a pickup truck. (They also asked me for my opinion on exhaust notes and such things.) It was a welcomed consideration that different drivers have different requirements/considerations. Making the whole thing a JOKE, well, that's irritating, as is the "moms have to deal with kids" nonsense. But it would also be foolish to ignore that some people have long nails and need to work controls. And some people wear skirts, so decisions should be made about step-over height. It would be a far far worse and more sexist thing to ignore these driver differences.

But why does considering what parents need have to mean morphing into women? What kind of chauvinist men working at GM would never put their kids or strollers or groceries into their car unless in an exercise where they have to be dressed like women?

Jeezus, how effing stupid. 99.9% of women look for the same things in a car that most men do: Good gas mileage, safety, and overall performance. Which guarantees I will never buy a freaking GM car, no matter how many skirts and false nails their executives don.

Um.

If it was so important to the manufacturers to figure out what women want in a car, why didn't they just have actual women test the vehicles?

Things that are important to me in a car are fuel efficiency, a CD player, and cruise control. And of course I'd like something that's going to last through a lot of mileage (because I live in the middle of nowhere and don't want it to die before I'm done paying it off).

I do wear skirts and grocery shop, but fingernails and babies are not a concern of mine.

Instead of designing a car with a place for a purse, why doesn't somebody design a pair of women's pants that have functional pockets?

I know, it's impossible, but just sayin'...

I just bought a truck because I hate cars. My requirements for a truck: 4x4 (I live in Wyoming), extended cab, low miles (I bought used), good mileage, reliable (my previous truck died a lot on me), handles as well as my previous truck, an S10, automatic (I can drive stick but I have bad knees so manual driving HURTS sometimes), CD player, power windows or AC. The end. What's so girly about that?

I just bought a truck because I hate cars. My requirements for a truck: 4x4 (I live in Wyoming), extended cab, low miles (I bought used), good mileage, reliable (my previous truck died a lot on me), handles as well as my previous truck, an S10, automatic (I can drive stick but I have bad knees so manual driving HURTS sometimes), CD player, power windows or AC. The end. What's so girly about that?

What do I look for in a car?

A bicycle.

I don't drive, if I was planning on going to the grocery store with my daughter I'm lucky enough to have a bus stop outside my door. However, I'm concerned as to why these designers think of mom and woman as the same. What about features for single women?

I don't drive, if I was planning on going to the grocery store with my daughter I'm lucky enough to have a bus stop outside my door. However, I'm concerned as to why these designers think of mom and woman as the same. What about features for single women?

If they're in such dire need of female perspective, doesn't it make sense just to hire more women engineers?

Dr. Pup -- I own several pairs of women's pants with functional pockets, unsurprisingly, since I won't wear skirts or carry a purse. So no, it's not "impossible."

Might be difficult where you live, though. I buy a significant percentage of my clothes at a chain called Reitman's, which seems to only exist here in Soviet Canuckistan. (Could be that Canadians are exceptionally skirt-averse during the winter months, so good sturdy pairs of pants are de rigeur.)

They can't hire more female engineers if there aren't more female engineers to hire. Auto companies don't create engineers. The dearth of women in the field is not, I believe, the auto companies' fault. Comparing wanting good mileage and a decent sound system to being "girly" isn't the point. Women are on average, for instance, shorter than men. So when automakers design adjustable pedals, it's more a mistake in marketing to crow about it being "for the laydees." But it IS realistic R&D to test your product for different body shapes, lifestyles, etc. So, I don't think we should get mad at the automakers. Like MOST things, it's probably an issue of marketing more than anything else.

They can't hire more female engineers if there aren't more female engineers to hire. Auto companies don't create engineers.

Asking why wanting "good mileage and a decent sound system" is supposed to be so girly misses the point. There are features that people in a vehicle's market are most likely to want, across the board. But different people with different physical attributes and lifestyles are going to have additional considerations.

I also dislike the confluence of "parent" with "mom." But how would features for "single" (i.e. childless, I'm guessing the commenter meant) women be different from "single" men? If we're talking about physical (and not parental) differences, that's completely realistic -- and necessary, and positive -- to look at from an R&D/design standpoint. We have a wide height variety in this country. Totally reasonable to consider this and attempt to make one automobile versatile enough for a range of heights/limb lengths (not to mention increasing girth considerations). The PROBLEM is marketing something like, say, adjustable pedal heights as "for the laydees."

As often is the case, the offense isn't necessarily so much in the actions of whomever is being reported, but rather in the reportage itself. So-called journalism is worse than advertising.