Southwest Airlines is apparently now telling its female passengers how to dress. Kyla Ebbert was reprimanded and nearly kicked off a flight for daring to wear a tank top, miniskirt, and cardigan. (This picture is of the outfit she was wearing at the time. Scandalous, no? How dare she walk around in 100-degree weather wearing that?!)
They walked out onto the jet bridge, where [flight attendant/fashion policeman] Keith told Ebbert her clothing was inappropriate and asked her to change. She explained she was flying to Tucson for only a few hours and had brought no luggage.“I asked him what part of my outfit was offensive,� she said. “The shirt? The skirt? And he said, 'The whole thing.' �
Keith asked her to go home, change and take a later flight. She refused, citing her appointment. The plane was ready to leave, so Keith relented. He had her pull up her tank top a bit, pull down her skirt a bit, and return to her seat.
Guess we know what airline Wendy "Modestly Yours" Shalit is going to be flying from now on!
The San Diego Union-Tribune columnist clearly thinks Ebbert's treatment was unacceptable, but then he throws up his hands:
Who knows where the lines are drawn these days, particularly when it comes to dress? If you watch television, or visit the mall, or take in a game at Petco Park, you'll see women dressed in ways that, 50 years ago, were pornographic. Today they are stylish.
Uh, newsflash: 50 years ago, Southwest was requiring its own stewardesses to wear skirts just as short as Ebbert's. (Picture below the fold.) So much for the good ol' days of modesty.
Thanks to reader Elizabeth for the link.
UPDATE: If you want to let Southwest president Colleen Barrett know what you think about this incident... contact info is here.
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By Mithras Invicti Southwest Airlines apparently has decided to take a stand against Hooters waitresses: [Kyla Ebbert] had a doctor's appointment that afternoon in Tucson, where temperatures had topped 106 all week. She arrived at Lindbergh Field [in S... Read More
First, they came for our toothpaste. Now, our tank tops? Kyla Ebbert, 23, was recently escorted off a Southwest Airlines flight by a male customer service supervisor for wearing the outfit shown in this photograph. The college student and Hooters wait... Read More
Well of course the airline could ask them to wear those short skirts, they were making money of the hotness of their stewardesses, but now it's women choosing to wear it willingly, and we can't have that.
Gawd I hate it when people get into the "50 years ago" nostaligia. Guess what? 50 years before THAT women couldn't show any skin at all, not even an ankle! And 50 years before THAT, and 50 years before THAT...etc. etc. etc. It seems like the 40s/50s/early 60s are just this peachy keen time in the world, where everything was perfect. Blah!
I've never flown Southwest before, but my family's taking a trip to Chicago on Southwest in October--I fully plan to dress in something 'revealing' as a form of protest now.
Honestly, the outfit that woman is wearing looks completely acceptable to me.
Bastards. How dare this asshole think he can tell her how to dress? What business is it of his? At what point does that have anything to do with anything? Unless she's endangering herself or other passengers, what is it to him what she does or wears? I don't even understand his rationale for thinking he had any right to so much as comment, never mind give orders.
Fuck that guy. I hope that he loses his job.
. . . even though he probably won't.
Folks who've studied employment discrimination law may remember Southwest was the subject of a famous case involving their "Love Airline" (or something like that) marketing campaign from about 40 years ago, which involved stewardesses being required to wear hot pants, miniskirts, etc. They lost. That said, SWA flight attendants in the modern era wear pants or shorts and comfortable shoes, as do their desk personnel.
I have been a Southwest frequent flyer and an admirer of their corporate culture for years now, and have to say that this event is so far removed from how Southwest employees are expected to treat their customers (and, in my experience, DO treat their customers) that I cannot believe it is representative of SWA policy in general. And - I would bet good money that "Keith" is no longer employed there! At least, I hope not. What an asshole.
CBS Sunday This Morning just did an interesting piece on Southwest this past weekend. It had some great footage of the miniskirts and hot pant outfits the flight attendants wore at the airline's start.
I'm pretty sure this must be an isolated incident. I fly on Southwest all the time, between school and home, and I've seen plenty of young women dressed like that.
It's that ridiculous editorial that's got me upset, really. First, because false nostalgia is a giant pet peeve of mine, but mainly, what "line"? The line between whore and otherwise? Good and evil? The utter dissolve of society because some women show their legs? It's just a ridiculous train of thought.
Southwest Airlines Executive Contact Information:
Toll-free customer service number: (800) 435-9792
Jim Ruppel
Vice president, customer relations
P.O. Box 36647
Dallas, TX 75235-1647
(214) 792-4223 (general branch number, will have to attempt asking to be transferred to Jim by name)
jim.ruppel@wnco.com
Donna Conover
Executive vice president, customer operations
(214) 792-4000 (corporate location #, ask the operator to transfer you)
donna.conover@wnco.com
Chief executive
Gary Kelly
Chief executive officer
(214) 792-4000 (corporate location #, ask the operator to transfer you)
gary.kelly@wnco.com
Maybe her outfit was distracting to the pilot. He could have crashed!!!
[Obviously kidding! I'm thinking about that post a few months ago about the bus driver who made the woman get off the bus b/c her cleavage being too distracting].
Ok, but here's something that hasn't been mentioned yet (unless I've missed it.) Was she flying as a regular fare passenger, or was she using standby tickets? Because I flew standby with my boyfriend this summer (courtesy of a family friend) and it turns out they have a VERY STRICT dress code. I mean you can't even wear a T shirt, for God's sake. They almost kept the two of us from being able to fly home over it, and were VERY, VERY rude in the process. We were both clean, covered up, and dressed nicely besides the not having a collared shirt issue, which we didn't realize was an issue. So they find it appropriate to enforce discrimination in that area. So I'd be interested to know whether or not she was indeed a standby passenger. Not that I think its right. I think the dress code thing is a crock, and completely ridiculous. It's not like any one else on the plane knew we were using standby tickets (until they lectured us publicly.) There were plenty of scantily clad women on that flight, let me tell you.
This sounds like one rogue employee who let his misogyny get in the way of his job, as opposed to this being company policy, so I hope this does not spiral into some sort of lawsuit or boycott.
But I hope that employee gets a nice, all-expenses-paid vacation to the unemployment office out of this.
And the columnist needs to get a grip. Miniskirts are not a sign of the apocalypse.
(as an aside... as a guy, I don't understand other men who get pissy like that Southwestern employee over what women choose to wear. And if anything, we're supposed to be in FAVOR of revealing clothing on women... right? ;) )
Shanpo - really? I tried to find that policy in writing on the internet, but couldn't. Could they have been making up a bullshit rule to keep you from flying for some other reason? (Other forms of discrimination, they wanted a customer who paid more, etc...?)
Shanpo & Betsy, those policies on dress codes are usually for what they call "non-revenue" passengers. These passengers are either employees of the airline or guests of those employees. The airline provides employees free (plus taxes) standby tickets on a space available basis as a perk.
Usually the dress code for non-rev passengers is very explicitly and specifically spelled out so their is no confusion and it ensures that you are in appropriate business or business casual dress (depending on the class of service). When I've flown as a non-rev passenger, the dress code was provided immediately upon reservation for the ticket and I had to check a little "acknowledge" box. The airline employee who provides the pass should also be fully aware of these restrictions. It is their responsibility to tell you there is a dress code before giving you a pass to use.
If this woman was using one of those passes, her outfit would've been more likely policed by the gate agent than a flight attendant though. I would guess this particular Southwest employee was a rogue and a jerk and hopefully doesn't represent the opinions of his whole company.
She is more well dressed than a lot of people I see on planes. Most notable, a hairy smelly man in a dirty tank top. No one gave HIM any trouble, and his aroma was more offensive than that woman's clean, put-together outfit.
P.S. Is this the same airline that kicked the mother and her toddler off because the kid kept babbling "bye bye plane" as they took off?
Southwest flew its first flight in 1971, according to the company's website, so it seems unlikely that they'd be requiring flight attendants to be doing anything 50 years ago.
Exactly, Becca. I used to fly stand-by a lot with my dad, and they were very strict about dress code. Even when I was about four or five, I had to be dressed "appropriately", which basically meant in a skirt and blouse/dress.
I don't get it though, why do they even care what a standby/non-revenue passenger is wearing?
on a side note, i just moved to china and got super confused when i saw that no, robot! had posted on September 5th while I was in the middle of reading the thread, haha. But then I figured out that it was b/c of the time difference. I am so smart, s-m-r-t!
Rock Star-
I know a couple of people in the industry (one of which is a senior Southwest employee), and they think ratty-looking passengers hurt their brand image. With employees or employees' family members flying for free, they feel they can exert a little control over the "problem".
I thought the non-rev dress code only applied if you listed in business or first class?
Rember the show "Airline" that featured Southwest? This would have made an interesting episode...
This is utter ridiculousness. I'm more in general "offended" (but not really) by people who refuse to get fully dressed and wander around in pajamas everywhere. But I don't try to order them off planes or otherwise refuse them service. All this dress code nonsense also reminds me of an interview with the owner of Ryanair, about how "classing" a plane is ridiculous. It's a bus that flies. I hope this Keith asshat is totally fired, and that this doesn't make airlines think, "dress codes! great idea!".
this isn't the only case of fashion police. An American-Iraqi man wearing an Arabic/English shirt that said "We Will Not Be Silent" was not allowed to fly. He sued.
Dress codes are dress codes but I think you'd be saying something else if a guy walked onto a plane with his penis hanging out. Or maybe even showing underneath.
Nothing in this article has told me she didn't walk onto a plane with everything hanging out that shouldn't be in a public place.
She posed for a media pic as she wanted it to be seen, not how she walked onto that plane.
As a parent I wouldn't want to see a guys penis or ass hanging out, nor would I want them to see the same on a woman.
From the picture she's discreet, does that mean that's the way she walked on to the flight?
I can honestly say I've seen my share of very, very upper thigh/ass in women on a plane but never a penis. Two inches inbetween might be your own biz but it's not coverage
The prior comments have been nothing but a big ok for this behavior.
(why is one ok and not the other?)
Let's say I'm a guy who has a great looking penis. Not just average. Why isn't ok for me to show it off on a airplane? Or a great ass.. guys could wear really tight fittin shorts .......
I do not believe this woman was singled out among millions of airline passengers a day as a person they would attack regarding how she dressed.
I do believe she's trying to be a feminist (or anti) spokeswoman and get her ten minutes of fame.
Again I've been on every major airline and seen all sorts of dress.
"Can I push those limits and get nationwide attention"
I'd say no. I've seen many a woman dressed less then you were in that picture on a U.S flight. No you can't.
Oh dear.
kave barney- Really? Do you really think this woman hiked her skirt way up to walk on to the plane? Cause that seems unlikely.
Kave - since when is upper thigh/ass/legs the same as a genitals? You're comparing things all wrong - she wasn't flashing her vagina, she was showing her LEGS. Wear short-shorts to show off those hot gams and then you can compare. But flopping out that above average penis and waving it around on an airplane does not compare to this girl wearing a mini skirt.
But honestly, I was on board with this girl until I read her stupid mother's quote about how attractive and tall and blonde her daughter is and how she's envied for her appearance and how all 23 year olds who "can get away with it" dress provocatively. Lady, PLEASE!
Plus, Keith said it was because of children and "adults with heightened sensitivities" - I suspect some cranky passenger complained about her and Keith had to figure out a way to deal with it. He didn't refuse to let her fly, he asked her to change, she said no, he asked her to leave to change and she said no, so he let her fly! Of course, it's silly for it to have happened in the first place, but I don't think it's cool to jump and call this guy an asshat and will his unemployment without the whole picture.
Ahh, fuck Southwest. I used to fly them, but good luck with ever getting my business again, and I do fly a lot. Besides, Northwest is much cheaper and more efficient anyway (I don't have stock in NWA, I promise!).
When I fly out to Cali next week, though - I might just wear a dress. Or, on second thoughts, if her dress caused controversies, I can only imagine what my "I (heart) pro-choice girls" shirt will do!
And Jane, I LOVED that show. But, of course, they'd only show drunken people being refused fly privilege. Nothing like this. EVER!
OMG! kave barney, I totally forgot about the children. Save the Children! Save the Children! They might see my upper thigh and...and..what? See upper thigh?
Sometimes, actually, most of the time, it's NOT kiddie time. We live in an adult world made for adults. If you want dress codes and children, children, children, go to Disneyland.
I find stuff like this infuriating. Personally, I find it can be hard to be a breastfeeding mother -- whenever you want to go somewhere and the kid gets hungry, you've got to feed him, and there's always a part of me that's terrified some stranger is going to start scolding me about being indecent. I don't particularly care who sees a small glimpse of the side of my boob while I'm adjusting baby, blanket, and shirt. Hell, I showed more than that while giving birth. But I'm not flashing you, I'm feeding a person. She's hungry, she wants food, and she's not going to understand "no, sweetie, the morality police think it's inappropriate for you to eat here, you'll have to wait."
I tend to find that even the strangers who are violently uncomfortable with learning that I have breasts are more uncomfortable to have a screaming infant on the same flight as them. But occurances like this, when the flight crew can apparently decide what apparel is decent, open a scary door -- one behind which I can see myself getting thrown off a flight because I am breastfeeding my child before takeoff. Hell, my "behavior" (having a breast out of shirt) would probably be considered more flagrant than wearing "minimal" clothing.
And I HATE the fact that there is an attitude in this world which makes me ashamed of being able to feed my children whenever they need it.
- - - - -
"I can honestly say I've seen my share of very, very upper thigh/ass in women on a plane but never a penis."
I've seen plenty of too-tight and unpleasantly bulging pants on planes. Those guys never get criticized, nobody whispers they're sluts looking for attention... and that is the basic male equivalent of a short skirt. Nobody has a penis hanging out any more than they do labia.
ugh. i just called southwest and the woman was a total b*tch. she said that her manner of dress was "offensive" to other customers. that is a sexy outfit, yes, but hardly offensive! i could pick many people with offensive clothing (other people might call it bad fashion, hahah). how obnoxious!!! southwest, you suck and i will never fly you!!!!!!!
Southwest Airlines is also the one who can randomly pull larger customers and demand that they pay for 2 seats- or hold up the entire flight while the fat rider has to disembark from the plane.
They are evil and must be stopped.
"As a parent I wouldn't want to see a guys penis or ass hanging out, nor would I want them to see the same on a woman."
This is it: The reason any woman wears a short skirt is to show off her vagina. Damn, he's on to us.
What kind of person equates a woman showing her legs to a man whipping out his goods?
Not that it matters a great deal, but I'd like to know if she was flying standby or not. I flew standby on United once, and they made me change shoes - I was wearing sandals - before they would let me on.
OK, I just read the article, and I'm reallt bothered by:
1. “My daughter is young, tall, blond and beautiful,� Michele Ebbert told me, “and she is both envied and complimented on her appearance. She dresses provocatively, as do 99 percent of 23-year-old girls who can."
2. Ebbert, who is 5-foot-5 and has green eyes, is pretty enough to be a model. Yet even wearing the clothes that scandalized Southwest, she did not attract attention beyond some lingering glances.
3. “'I hope she's not sitting next to my husband,'� Garin replied.
How is it that an article decrying sexism is riddles w/ comments on this girl's appearance. What if a short, curvy brunette had been wearing the same outfit? Is that not allowed? Why is it more offensive that this girl is young and conventionally attractive?
I just emailed Southwest employees (to addresses given above, thanks) this:
I am completely appalled that one of your employees thought he had the right to refuse service to Kyla Ebbert because of his opinion of how she was dressed. I find it a disgusting comment on your organization and will do everything in my power to fly other airlines.
Becca-I'm guessing you work for the airlines? Anyway the whole thing was rather a confusing mess for us, the only place the dress code was mentioned was on some fine print on a small insert that came with our tickets. The people that supplied them to us never mentioned it, either. It was our first time standby and we realized we had to dress nice, so we did, but we hadn't realized that it was to such a ridiculous extent, and that for failing to live up to the rigid code we would be publicly scolded like children and then almost withheld from a return flight. We were not in business or first class, just regular seating on some completely average commercial airplane.
And as far as being stopped by the gate person, the funny thing about that was we were checked in when we first arrived at the airport and checked in nothing was ever mentioned (at that time we had our suitcases and could have changed his shirt to a collared one if specified.) No comment. Later on, actually BOARDING the plane, the SAME MAN happened to be taking tickets and all of a sudden our attire was an issue, and the man treated us very nastily at that time, when we no longer had our suitcases and thought we had already passed inspection. I'd really like for someone to find an excuse for that one. I was really disappointed in that airport. (none of the others gave us any trouble.)
PS. Kave, what would you describe as a great looking, above average penis? Just curious-they're all about the same in my view... and even if there was one, I don't think I'd ever want to see it fashionably displayed....
It's really ignorant to compare a penis to a leg (or breast). Do women ever use their cleavage as weapons? Because some men use their penises that way. Women's breasts and legs are not threatening like a man's penis is. Nor are they sex organs. A better comparison would be a woman's vulva hanging out, and that's not what happened here.
Well, there's irony for you. She's a Hooter's waitress, her livelihood depends on her attire, but more modest attire disqualifies her from flying on an airplane. Hmm.
DivaJean, making fat people buy two seats makes sense to me. I was on an American flight to Atlanta once and had to sit next to this extremely obese women who literally had to wedge herself into her seat. Her fat then overflowed over the armrest and into my seat. I had like three-quarters of a normal seat ... after takeoff I got out of my seat and spent most of the flight sitting on the floor by the lavatories (there were no other free seats). Yuck.