This was a genuinely cringe-inducing moment in some poor ditz's life. How easy would it have been to call for more geography in schools, or even a Free Map to Every Student? Arguably the least controversial position that could ever be taken in pageant history!

If it were deliberate irony, it would be comedy gold.

But nope, this is just another ridiculously stupid girl who probably never got the chance to realize that there was something else on top of her shoulders besides a pretty face.

I agree that this is a disappointing answer. Yet, she is in high school, she was nervous, and I just feel awful for her being dragged through the mud like she has been. It must be devastating.

She was nervous, for goodness sake. Give her a break. I mean, I dislike pageants as much as the next person, but I don't think her mess-up should be yet another reason to dislike pageants. What if someone saw the occasional typos on Feministing and dismissed not only your personal opinion but all feminist theory? And I don't think she was trying to say that Americans were better at geography than anyone else. She said that the United States should help schools in poorer countries. Of course she could have been more coherent, but she was nervous. You're judging her mess-up on the fact that she's in a beauty pageant, when it's natural to feel that way in front of any audience.

She reanswered the question on Today and said, ""Well personally, my friends and I, we know exactly where the United States is on our map. I don't know anyone else who doesn't. And if the statistics are correct, I believe there should be more emphasis on geography." Someone please find something wrong with that statement.

I think what Samhita was getting at was the fact that she had to turn it around and say (or, try to say) something like, "people in South Africa and Iraq don't have America's education" and that *we* (Americans) should help them. Uh, help them do what? Find America on a map?

It is not this isolated incident that makes me dislike pageants. It is that they are a weird, weird cultural and social phenomena. Also, some certain little girls in certain places growing up wanting to be beauty queens, as opposed to all the other things they could be. And then you have the weird, mom forcing child to be pageant queen business, so, yeah. . .

This is just funny.

I actually feel really bad for her; how terrible is it that your one nervous/incoherent moment all of a sudden becomes an internet phenomenon?!

I wish someone would post a transcript of the Q&A along with the video. For those of us without the proper software it's really frustrating to see several posts about this film clip on different blogs and nobody actually explain what the hell is going on.

That said, and obviously without having seen the clip, why is this being passed around by feminists? My understanding is that this is a teenage girl who answered a question about geography in a stupid and offensive way. What stupid shit did you say when you were young? How is humiliating one teenage girl going to challenge the sexism of beauty pageants or western cultural imperialism???

Maybe I would understand if I saw the clip, but damn this just doesn’t make any sense.

I just feel bad for her. I can relate- speaking out loud, especially in front of people I don't know, is REALLY awkward for me and I've blundered like that in class several times, and I'm not dumb, just a very shy and nervous person.

'"Well personally, my friends and I, we know exactly where the United States is on our map. I don't know anyone else who doesn't. And if the statistics are correct, I believe there should be more emphasis on geography." Someone please find something wrong with that statement.'

She has time to think about it (or have someone write her an asnwer) and that was the best she could come up with? I'm sure she had a time limit, but if the stats are true they likely have more to do with literacy and patriotism gone wrong (oh, the number of Americans I've met who pride themselves on lack of a passport...) than the lack of a Geography 101 class called 'The US of A: Where It Is, How to Find it on a Map'

Slater should act more professionally. Perhaps Principal Belding will punish him.

I'll admit I laughed when I first saw this, but now I just feel bad for her. If you stuck a T.V. camera in my face I would probably struggle too (I'm imagining a nervous, red faced stutter followed by an extremely awkward silence before Slater finally intervenes).

I saw her on the news this morning. She seemed like a nice girl in her interview. I don’t know if she’s a genius, but she handled herself pretty well all things considered.

norbizness - You beat me to the Slater reference.

Those of you commenting that you too get nervous speaking in front of others: That's why you're not Miss Anytown USA!
But what the hell do the people in this country expect? We place way more importance on women's looks than their brains, but when they live up to our expectations (by being pretty & stupid) we make a mockery of them.

First of all, that was hilarious.

Second of all, you can't really blame her too much, though, for freezing up.

Who is to say we would do any better if we were asked some random-assed question about why people can't find the U.S. on a map. Being on TV, and being judged, and being in front of thousands of people is completely nerve racking.

The worst part to me is that she came in the top 5 - and the prize (if I remember correctly) is a HUGE university scholarship! I do however, agree with a previous poster that this is far more about having a colonial gaze on the rest of the world than about a young woman being nervous.

It is not this isolated incident that makes me dislike pageants. It is that they are a weird, weird cultural and social phenomena. Also, some certain little girls in certain places growing up wanting to be beauty queens, as opposed to all the other things they could be. And then you have the weird, mom forcing child to be pageant queen business, so, yeah. . .

This is just funny.

Those are all very good reasons to be against beauty pageants. How were this one contestant's ramblings an overt example of any of those things? Her silly answer shouldn't reaffirm anyone's negative opinions about pageants. Singling her out doesn't make any point at all. I would understand if she won despite that crazy ass answer, but she didn't. This story overshadows the person who won and why.

More disturbing is the fact that this pageant has a SWIMSUIT portion!!
Can you imagine how many lecherous old dudes were watching?

I don't feel bad for her at all. Thank you for reinforcing stereotypes! Man, am I proud to be a "U.S. American", BORN in South Carolina...and sometimes blonde.

Here's what she said (if you can't see the video)

"I personally believe... that U.S. Americans are unable to do so... because...uh... some people out there in our nation don't have maps...
And... uh... I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and... uh... the Iraq, everywhere, like, such as...and I believe that they should... Our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S... uh...or, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries...so we will be able to build up our future... for our children."

To be honest, I can't even understand what she's trying to say. "South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as"????? I'm sorry, that's not English.

I don't think she deserves sympathy just because she's nervous or on national television. If she can't talk in front of a camera then she shouldn't be in a televised pageant.

Seems to me that she had no idea which one of her practiced responses could answer that question and, since she quite obviously could not come up with a basic answer on her own, she bit the dust.

Also, I could have SWORN she said Obama somewhere in there. Did anyone else hear that??

Also, I could have SWORN she said Osama somewhere in there. Did anyone else hear that??

Speaking of embarrassing moments from the 2007 Pageant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNnp5JXlrtk&mode=related&search=

norbizness=win for the Slater reference. You know he would have behaved better if jessie were there.
I pity this girl, mostly because she represents all that's wrong with the U.S. school system. Apparently, a child was left behind. That, and a culture that values shiny hair and good makeup more than brains. She's like The Ugly American that doesn't understand anything outside of their own country.
I don't think she deserves sympathy just because she's nervous or on national television. If she can't talk in front of a camera then she shouldn't be in a televised pageant.
Seriously! Was it a surprise for her that they asked questions? If you're going to be in the public eye, you have to learn how to speak if you want to be taken seriously. Join the debate team or Model U.N. Take an acting class. Do something! I did debate and theater and it made a real difference.

Thanks for the transcript PamelaV.

Now it just begs the question: why is this posted on Feministing? The reasons have not been clearly articulated. What does it show other than this individual girl messed up an answer to a question? Sure you could say it's an indictment of the American education system or our colonialist attitudes, but feminists should be critiquing that at an institutional level and not making an example out of one teenage girl.

I'm kind of appalled to see this here, because I thought Feministing was about empowering people, especially young people, not ridiculing them.

This unfortunate young woman could be an example of what's wrong with No Child Left Behind, the imperialism ingrained in people in the United States, or the basic flaws of pageants (even when pageants have "talent" portions and interviews, it appears that physical features are still the most important attributes in contestants). Instead, of addressing the real underlying issues, she is being snarkily attacked and laughed at. This is not what I expect from Feministing.

I think it is posted here because beauty pageants are fucked up to begin with and this is just another example of why we hate them.

Also, I personally think that the child-pageants they have reek of pedophilia and that sexualizing your 7 year old is disgusting.

I feel really bad for her. Making fun of a young girl for becoming a victim of our society's expectations is not what I would expect from a website that promotes feminism.

When I was in high school I said pretty stupid things too. In fact, when I was 16, a co-worker told me she had gone to London and my response was "Oh cool! Did you get to see the Eiffel Tower?" I was the laughing stock of the restaurant until I quit. I can't imagine how embarrassed I would be if I a video of me saying something so stupid was aired on the YouTube.

In high school, I didn't know things like basic geography, because I was too busy worrying about protecting my reputation (girls in my high school were labeled as sluts for all kinds of dumb reasons) and avoiding sexual harassment, which was rampant in my high school. If I wasn't doing those things, I was busy doing my hair and makeup and planning my clothes for the week, and you know, the things girls are "supposed" to do.

Ah, Moxie Hart and stinsonnick addressed my concerns before I could register.

I did point all that out AmyAzul.

I don't have to clearly articulate the reasoning for every post I put up. Sometimes things are just funny and we post them. Not everything has to have an overarching point or theory.

But the points and reasons I put this post up have already been articulated, by myself and other commenters.

Sorry if I have offended people's love of pageantry. And I was not trying to dig into a young woman for my own fun by any means. I think this is a vivid example of many insidious problems in the US educational system and the racist assumptions embedded within the minds of our "most beautiful" youth.

I feel really bad for her. Making fun of a young girl for becoming a victim of our society's expectations is not what I would expect from a website that promotes feminism.

She is such a "victim". She signed up for a voluntary pageant, said something really stupid and somewhat racist, then got called out. Boo-hoo.

I agree with PamelaV.

So according to nbrice and some other posters, people just have absolutely no agency, they are all just victims of our societies expectations.

The fact that women are rewarded for being pretty yet not able to formulate coherent answers when asked relatively simple questions is, I think, pretty damn relevant to both feminism and feministing.com.

That didn't sound like a complete fluff-up to me. It sounded like, prior to the pageant, she was rehearsing her lines.

"So, when they ask me questions I want to come across as caring about the wider world, the environment, the future, and being charitable towards people. I want to sound like I am interested in, or at least aware, of the political situation of the planet, of third world countries and the like." And then just recited buzz words like Africa, world hunger, children, Iraq, over and over. I do that sort of thing when going for job interviews.

It looks like she got caught off guard with an unexpected question and had drummed the buzz-words in overmuch...

The video isn't what disturbs me most about this pageant. It's the fact that these girls parade around with barely anything on for all 40 year old perverts to see (and no doubt record on their Tivo). That's more of an issue than her babbling on over some silly question.

The correct answer is: 'World Peace'

Ugh. The only thing I hate more than the refusal to acknowledge how society promotes sexism (blaming only individuals) is the refusal to hold individuals responsible for their part in that promotion.

Is this girl a victim of a culture that told her that since she was pretty, she didn't have to grow a brain or personality? Sure.

Is she still at least partly responsible for giving entirely in to that pressure and not bothering to get an education on her own? Absolutely.

"Society" is not a faceless monolith. It is made up of individuals. And just as the individual parents, teachers and other adults who stunted this girl's mental growth are partly responsible for her stupidity, she's also in part responsible for it, too. She's not a little kid. She hasn't been locked up in a basement and kept away from libraries. And by voluntarily appearing in pageants like this, she's helping to perpetuate the nastiness they wreak upon other girls and young women.

Each of us has a responsibility to do what we can to eradicate sexism. We are all responsible for it still existing, and therefore we are all responsible for ending it. This girl doesn't get a pass just because she's underage or had the misfortune to be born to rotten parents. Those things are handicaps, certainly, but they're not an absolute defense against irresponsibility.

Bunny, I totally agree with you - the sense that I got from watching the video was not just that the girl froze, but froze on her rehearsed and prepped answers. I'm not saying that it's not really nerve racking to be on national television, but what in that question referenced anything about South Africa or Iraq? She said later on that the question "surprised" her - what exactly was she expecting then? I guess something about South Africa or Iraq - in which case, the most disturbing thing is that her planned answers were maybe not something that she genuinely thought, but simply lines she learned that would sound intelligent and hopefully win her the crown.

I don't know, I just feel bad for her. I think Samhita was pointing out the imperialistic and racist undertones of what she was saying and not trying to bully her for her screw-up; but it seems to me like the poor girl just bombed. At some point, she probably had no idea *what* she was saying; I mean, it doesn't even make any sense! At my senior prom I was called on to give a formal toast and I similarly bombed. I'm usually a fine public speaker but for some reason, I got so nervous I just blathered incessantly until my jaw snapped shut and that was that. People probably still laugh about it! Everyone was really gracious about it, and I was able to forget about it and get on with my life. How is this girl ever going to live these comments down?

while i can't condone calling her stupid, b/c i think we should be above that (of which i have been guilty too)...i do know that these girls rehearse, prep and do countless other things...including MANY interviews and other pagents (no, i don't like them...beside the point) to get ready for 'national television'...so i have no pity there...would i do better? who knows? i haven't practiced and prepared for months/years for this...if she came off sounding less than intelligent, we can only blame her for putting herself in this situation. (unless she has a 'stage mom'...but even then...there is a level of blame...)
they volunteer...no one forces you to be in a pagent...(and noone forces you to be in the ones that have bathing suit competitions and the likes...there are plenty that DON'T have them)...you have to put in the effort, raise the money to go, do the work, and the practice...if she was caught off guard...it's on her...
but i do feel sorry for her...it seems she could be doing better things w/ her time...but that is a little judgemental...so i digress

"She hasn't been locked up in a basement and kept away from libraries"

OTOH, not every teen lives within safe walking/cycling/skating distance of a library. The ones who don't live so close to libraries don't all have a driver's licenses and cars (or permission to borrow someone else's car). Not even in America. So yes, some teens can be kept away from libraries...

The fact that women are rewarded for being pretty yet not able to formulate coherent answers when asked relatively simple questions is, I think, pretty damn relevant to both feminism and feministing.com.

She didn't win the damn pageant! I could understand if she won. Then I would say that it obviously doesn't matter what someone says, it's how they look and behave. But she might have lost because of it. Maybe the one who won articulated herself better.

Sorry if I have offended people's love of pageantry. And I was not trying to dig into a young woman for my own fun by any means. I think this is a vivid example of many insidious problems in the US educational system and the racist assumptions embedded within the minds of our "most beautiful" youth.

Disagreeing with you on this point doesn't mean I and the others who didn't like your post "love pagentry." I believe I already said that I dislike pageants. I didn't realize that not liking you chewing out a single pageant contestant equated with supporting beauty pageants. I also didn't realize that wanting developed nations like the United States to help educate youth in poor countries was racist and imperialist.

"How easy would it have been to call for more geography in schools, or even a Free Map to Every Student?"

...or at least a shout-out to Google Earth? ;)

Meanwhile, this stuff on beauty queens and maps reminded me a bit of this article:

http://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/spring07articles/bring-back-geography-1of2.html

"...The situation in government reflects what happened in academia. In ancient China, the Chou emperor had his geographer-royal. Louis XV had his geographer. The Continental Congress appointed its official geographer. President Wilson had his geographer (Bowman). President Roosevelt had his geographer (also Bowman). Since World War II, however, no U.S. president has had a geographer. Again, the deficiency is a distinctly American phenomenon. In the United Kingdom, Prince William, heir to the throne, is himself a geographer, having graduated from St. Andrews University in 2005 with a master's degree in geography..."

I would suck at pageants. Not even going to mention the physical aspects, but I am still not very good at the fluff BS-ing on the fly (to say nothing of the stage fright, which I have really bad). My answer would have been "Well, I would surmise that it's because too many students in the U.S. either aren't taking geography classes, aren't paying attention in geography class, or aren't being taught geography properly in the first place."

And then I'd lose for not being pretty enough. Oh and for not coming up with a "cause" and a proposed BS solution.

I also didn't realize that wanting developed nations like the United States to help educate youth in poor countries was racist and imperialist.
It's racist and imperialist when you have no clue about the countries you want to help. South Africa and Iraq had culture when most of Europe was in the Dark Ages and hiding from eclipses and comets.
Seriously, did this girl give any indication that she had any original thoughts about how to genuinely help developing countries? It's really not entirely her fault, though, she just reflects the paternalistic culture that she's part of. "Hmm, South Africa is inferior so what we should do is introduce a lot fo standardized tests and that should help!"

Public speaking is HARD - even for grown folks. This young lady is a high school student, cut her some slack! Not to mention the fact that the question was pretty stupid - I think she did a pretty good job at coming up with an answer on the fly to a poorly crafted question.

Incidentally, folks criticized her for calling it "The Iraq".

First of all, there are actually places that have "The" in their names: "The Bronx", "The Sudan", "The Congo" ect.

So why couldn't it be "The Iraq"?

Second, nobody caught the fact that she pronounced the country's name wrong - it's pronounced E-rak, not EYE-rack.

For some reason, Americans tend to have a problem with that, like folks call Iran EYE-ran instead of E-ran.

So why couldn't it be "The Iraq"?
Uhm, because it's wrong? Standards, people. Re: pronunciation, well American english is barely english, we do have a tendency to pronounce words, especially foreign words, all willy nilly. Eh-raq, eye-raq, what does it matter? It's only someone else's country.
Saying that she's just in high school is a cop out, and insulting to the smart, articulate high school students out there.

NBRICE:

"In high school, I didn't know things like basic geography, because I was too busy worrying about protecting my reputation (girls in my high school were labeled as sluts for all kinds of dumb reasons) and avoiding sexual harassment, which was rampant in my high school. If I wasn't doing those things, I was busy doing my hair and makeup and planning my clothes for the week, and you know, the things girls are "supposed" to do."

Would you mind if I quoted you on that? One of my honor's students is doing a project on sex differences in perceptions of sexual objectification (feeling judged on looks/weight vs. accomplishments) in the workplace and that quote pretty much captures everything in a nutshell.

And I was not trying to dig into a young woman for my own fun by any means. I think this is a vivid example of many insidious problems in the US educational system and the racist assumptions embedded within the minds of our "most beautiful" youth.

But given that everywhere, all over the internet, this young woman is getting piled on and torn to shreds, is it really necessary to provide another forum for people to do mock - and encourage us to as well?

And if the education/race angle of what she said is so important as to justify us giving this video our attention, surely they ought to get a thorough working-out.

My take is that given that elsewhere on the internet, this post is attracting comments that are incredibly sexist, we shouldn't be leaping to dogpile as well. If anything, we ought to be having a crack at the dickheads who are laughing at her for having the cheek to be blonde, young, female, and in public eye. What did she expect but public condemnation? Ho, ho, ho. This is why we keep 'em in the kitchen!

(Note I'm not defending what she said or the pageant she was in or anything else. Just saying that if we're going to discuss this, it deserves a proper and thorough analysis. That takes into account the sexism that surrounds it elsewhere.)

The correct answer is: 'World Peace'

lol! In all seriousness, that could have been pretty awesome.

Oh, and for those who defend not knowing where your own damn country is on a map? Bite me.

I hated geography and paid very little attention and I still knew where at least NZ, Australia, the US/Canada/Sth America, Europe, Africa and the UK were. Why? Because NZers actually learn about countries other than NZ

As a debater, I have encountered some extremely intelligent people saying the DUMBEST things when under pressure. I think this girl was trained to mention S. Africa and Iraq, and when the stupid question came up and she didn't have an answer, she got confused and nervous and tried to fall back on her practice question answers. My friend was in one of these things (gorgeous gorgeous girl, but she waved all the pageant coaches) and she was asked a stupid question about whether it was cold when they visited Minnesota whereas the other girls were asked about their volunteer experience. Whether or notthese pageants are a positive thing is certainly up for debate, but everyone says stupid crap under pressure from time to time.

The world's a serious and dark enough place that I just have to enjoy this kind of comedy when it happens.

I couldn't help but consider what made it so freaking hysterical. I think the key is, if she had just freaked out and mumbled some nonsensical stuff, it would have been ignored and forgotten. But what made it comedy gold is that she said such hilarious gibberish with a dead straight face and completely confident (and obviously very practiced) delivery.

I think I might have been able to a feel a little sorry for her if she hadn’t had that fake smile plastered on her face as that gibberish was coming out. I felt like was watching some weird robotic Barbie.

…And for the people who are say they would have been embarrassed in front of the crowd and cameras too: She had no problem parading around in front of them in skimpy outfits. It was only when she had to actually use her brain that she had a problem. Also she had no qualms going on the Today show to talk about it later. The fact is that this publicity is probably better for her fashion/modeling career than if she had won the pageant. A pretty sorry state of affairs.

It's racist and imperialist when you have no clue about the countries you want to help. South Africa and Iraq had culture when most of Europe was in the Dark Ages and hiding from eclipses and comets.
Seriously, did this girl give any indication that she had any original thoughts about how to genuinely help developing countries? It's really not entirely her fault, though, she just reflects the paternalistic culture that she's part of. "Hmm, South Africa is inferior so what we should do is introduce a lot fo standardized tests and that should help!"

I didn't get that from her answer at all, and I don't know how you did. Granted, her response was incoherent, so I guess one could interpret it in an infinite number of ways. I thought her message was that developed countries like the United States should help poor countries. But if you believe she's some mastermind who feigns ditziness in order to further a radical nationalistic and ethnocentric agenda, then all I have to say is . . . Zyprexa.

And for the people who are say they would have been embarrassed in front of the crowd and cameras too: She had no problem parading around in front of them in skimpy outfits. It was only when she had to actually use her brain that she had a problem. Also she had no qualms going on the Today show to talk about it later. The fact is that this publicity is probably better for her fashion/modeling career than if she had won the pageant. A pretty sorry state of affairs.

I know I'm more confident in a bathing suit than expressing my ideas in front of a crowd (which is why I do so much of it online). I think I look good in a bathing suit and I love my body, so if anyone thinks my body is ugly, it really doesn't matter to me. But I put much more time into my opinions and I take a lot of pride in being a thinker. Being judged on something that matters, my brain, by people who matter (professors, peers, etc.) provokes much more anxiety in me than wearing a particular garment.

"Uhm, because it's wrong? Standards, people. Re: pronunciation, well American english is barely english..."

Moxie Hart - I hate grammar nazis! For some reason, some folks are so anal about abstract, English teacher-imposed "rules" about how you're "supposed" to speak.

To me, those made up "rules" get in the way of communication, and are intended to shut certain people up (specifically, folks from working class/non college backgrounds).

American English is a perfectly legitimate form of English - in a lot of ways, it's more logical than British English.

Unlike the British, we don't use unnessecary letters (we spell "Labor" the way it's pronounced - the British have a U in the word for no apparent reason; we spell "Whining" the way it's pronounced, the British spell it with an extra G and an extra H in the middle - again, for no apparent reason ect)

But, I'm sure the British have their reasons for those odd spellings - so I really don't have a problem with it.

On the whole "The Iraq" thing, again, she didn't know that it wasn't called "Iraq" instead of "The Iraq" - and honestly, so what?

As far as I'm concerned, as long as you can understand what somebody's trying to say, it's "correct" - so quit being so damned anal about these language "rules".

But if you believe she's some mastermind who feigns ditziness in order to further a radical nationalistic and ethnocentric agenda, then all I have to say is . . . Zyprexa.
Ok, you know what? That was totally rude and uncalled for. We were having a nice debate and that was just fucked up.
I don't appreciate stigmatizing mentally ill people since I've been dealing with issues for a really long time. I'm on 300 mgs. of effexor daily for depression, plus rozerom because I have debilitating insomnia. Why is it ok on a feminist blog to say shit like this? Snicker at a teenager and you get jumped on, make fun of the mentally ill, well that's fine! So you might want to watch what you say because you don't know what people have been through.
I don't think she's part of a conspiracy, but I do think she represents current paternalistic attitudes in a lot of western countries.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as you can understand what somebody's trying to say, it's "correct" - so quit being so damned anal about these language "rules".
1. Don't tell me what to do.
2. I love the english language. It's produced some of the most beautiful works of art--WIlliam Blake, Emily Dickinson, Virginia Woolf, Sylvia Plath, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson--and I want to use it correctly, like any other tool. Sorry if I respect people that can correctly string together thoughts more than I respect people with verbal diarrhea.

But I put much more time into my opinions and I take a lot of pride in being a thinker. Being judged on something that matters, my brain, by people who matter (professors, peers, etc.) provokes much more anxiety in me than wearing a particular garment.

Somehow I don’t think her priorities are the same as yours. If you watch that clip without any sound, she looks like she is doing just fine. She has that fake smile plastered on her face throughout. Something makes me think she practiced that expression a lot in the mirror. Thinking about what she might actually have to say…not so much.

I totally don't understand how this is an example of "no child left behind." I thought that was something that affected students in lower-income areas. She's obviously not lower income, she's in a fucking beauty pageant. And I don't feel bad for her at all. I don't quite understand why I should

On the whole "The Iraq" thing, again, she didn't know that it wasn't called "Iraq" instead of "The Iraq" - and honestly, so what?
So you think that this level of ignorance is just perfectly acceptable?

To be real, when I wrote this post (12 hours before it was published) it was not everywhere and the dogpile hadn't occurred yet. Silly me for not seeing that and I agree with you Dinogirl and would love some links to where people wrote really sexist stuff.

But this just takes it too far:

http://mapsforus.org/

The internet is a crazy place, be careful kids!

Two thoughts on this:

1. I do feel sorry for her, because I know how it feels to be put on the spot by a question you're not expecting. However, she could have avoided the debacle with two basic statements that I teach my EFL students to use: "I'm sorry, could you repeat the question?" and "That's a good question. Let me think for a moment." They may not win you a lot of points for being a quick thinker, but it's certainly better than being completely incoherent.

2. The imperialistic and racist undertones that come through her jumbled phrases reflect the expectations of the contest. She had clearly been rehearsing the things she believed the judges wanted to hear.

Speaking of South Africa and learning about maps, I just remembered this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2446907.stm

"...The full-size facsimile of the silk map forms the centrepiece of an exhibition, Perspectives on and of Africa, at the South African parliament.

"Up to now, only a small number of people have been allowed to see the original.

"The speaker of the National Assembly, Frene Jinwala, said it was an important exhibit for South Africa.

"'We're trying to illustrate perspective. There is no north or south in space,' she said.

"'It's a political decision that places the northern hemisphere on top of a globe and that collectively South Africans have to find their own perspective, and accept the validity of perspectives of others.'

"Organisers hope the exhibition challenges Western perspectives of Africa, of slavery and colonial exploitation.

"It is using the Chinese map alongside South African rock art to illustrate the history of the continent before the time it was discovered by Europeans."

But, I'm sure the British have their reasons for those odd spellings - so I really don't have a problem with it.

Well, it's usually called "etymology" and so-called odd spellings generally derive from older forms of the language such as Old English, Middle English, etc. not to mention foreign languages. (I won't get into details about that because memories of my linguistics classes are a bit hazy after all this time). What you consider "logical" spellings are usually simplified versions which were so widely used by people that they ended up in the dictionaries (that's what happened to certain words in the French and German "revised" spellings). A standard use of the language helps communication, it doesn't hinder it. If we didn't have a standard language which is widely accepted and taught, people from different villages would not be able to understand each other because they would be speaking different dialects, as was the case in France until the French Revolution.

"A standard use of the language helps communication, it doesn't hinder it. If we didn't have a standard language which is widely accepted and taught, people from different villages would not be able to understand each other..."

Now the question is, "what is language for?"

Is it just a tool for personal expression to make oneself feel better, no matter if anyone else can understand the speech/signs/writing?

Is it just a tool for getting instructions and other ideas across to other people, no matter which aesthetics the speaker/signer/writer prefers?

Both?

Neither?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, so forgive me if I misunderstood your question:
I don't think those possibilities are contradictory. Language is obviously a tool to get ideas across, but I don't think adherence to grammar and spelling rules is purely aesthetic (even though I'm personally very sensitive to the beauty of words), it's generally easier to understand people who express themselves clearly (and that includes using a set of common, "standard" rules). It does not preclude from using the language as a means of personal expression, on the contrary.

"She signed up for a voluntary pageant, said something really stupid and somewhat racist, then got called out. Boo-hoo."

Posted by: PamelaV [TypeKey Profile Page] | August 28, 2007 05:11 PM

Since when did it become feministing's job to "call out" and help to humiliate young girls? I am pretty sure there are enough people making fun of her already.

Yes, she inadvertently said something that could be interpreted as racist. Judging by how nervous she looked and sounded, what came out was probably not what she meant to say.

No, she doesn't know a whole lot about other countries or cultures. But guess what- neither do most teenagers. In school, we are given 12 years of white/European/male history. That is why it is still necessary to have black/women/native american history month. In middle class, predominantly white schools, kids are not typically encouraged to worry about countries that are impoverished or in civil war, because we are supposed to be worrying about whether or not the football team is going to win or lose on Friday. In disadvantaged school districts, kids are worried about their own safety.

Oh- and I am not saying that it is acceptable for anyone to be an "ugly American."

I am just saying that we should not be viciously making fun of her. Let's forgive her and move on.

Besides, do you think she will ever want to call herself a feminist after reading some of the things that have been posted about her on this website? I like to encourage young girls to become feminists, not scare them away by calling them stupid.

UCLAbodyimage- Feel free to quote me! Thank you!

"we spell "Whining" the way it's pronounced, the British spell it with an extra G and an extra H in the middle - again, for no apparent reason ect)"

BUZZT, wrong. Two different words. And I'm working class to the core.

"I totally don't understand how this is an example of "no child left behind." I thought that was something that affected students in lower-income areas."

No. NCLB affects children who attend public school, period.

And Gregory, English is one of the most difficult languages to learn precisely because it's NOT logical.

My first thought on seeing the video: Oh no, we just moved to South Carolina, is this what my daughter will turn into?

This clip was mentioned on another blog Language Log, to point out that the statistic is apparently an urban legend.

Let me play devil's advocate here: I read an interview recently with a woman known as "the pass around girl" [warning, NSFW] due to her sexual addiction.


When asked what she thought feminists would think about her tats, she said that feminists told women what was good and bad for them in the same way the patriarchy does.


So as much as we hate beauty pageants and all that they stand for, is it really for us to criticize? After all, for this young woman to progress to this level, she had to possess at least some passion and talent for it. Who are we to tell her she's wrong?

Let me play devil's advocate here: I read an interview recently with a woman known as "the pass around girl" [warning, NSFW] due to her sexual addiction.


When asked what she thought feminists would think about her tats, she said that feminists told women what was good and bad for them in the same way the patriarchy does.


So as much as we hate beauty pageants and all that they stand for, is it really for us to criticize? After all, for this young woman to progress to this level, she had to possess at least some passion and talent for it. Who are we to tell her she's wrong?

"It does not preclude from using the language as a means of personal expression, on the contrary."

Yeah, I was just thinking of how now my mom has complained that it's less comfortable to think before she speaks.

When I was a kid she'd sometimes want me to do one chore, mix up the words (instead of taking the time to get it right, and instead of having taught me her native language in the first place) and tell me to do another one, then get all upset when I did the chore she asked me to do instead of the one she thought she was asking me to do.

Ok, you know what? That was totally rude and uncalled for. We were having a nice debate and that was just fucked up.
I don't appreciate stigmatizing mentally ill people since I've been dealing with issues for a really long time. I'm on 300 mgs. of effexor daily for depression, plus rozerom because I have debilitating insomnia. Why is it ok on a feminist blog to say shit like this? Snicker at a teenager and you get jumped on, make fun of the mentally ill, well that's fine! So you might want to watch what you say because you don't know what people have been through.
I don't think she's part of a conspiracy, but I do think she represents current paternalistic attitudes in a lot of western countries.

How am I making fun of the mentally ill by saying "Zyprexa" to someone who's making conspiracy theories about a beauty pageant contestant's public blunder? And how do you know you're not poking fun at someone with an anxiety issue by tearing apart Lauren Caitlin Upton? Yes, that's her name, something that nobody decided to mention, because pretty girls don't have names. They only have faces.
I don't think she's part of a conspiracy, but I do think she represents current paternalistic attitudes in a lot of western countries.
So were 50 other young women on that stage, and I can only assume that the winner represented those ideals best of all. I have a funny feeling that if Miss Upton didn't mess up, no one would be talking about this pageant.

How am I making fun of the mentally ill by saying "Zyprexa" to someone who's making conspiracy theories about a beauty pageant contestant's public blunder?
I din't say anything about a conspiracy theory. NO ONE said that so you can drop your conspiracy theory excuse and just say you were being a rude toe rag.
She's just a product of a school system that teaches the caucasian patriarchal view. And I sincerely doubt someone with an anxiety issue would even be in a beauty pageant. As someone who has anxiety issues, I can tell you that we generally don't put ourselves in the public eye, we try to escape it.
We talk about beauty pageants here all the time, so yeah, the video of her is funny, incidentally.
pretty girls don't have names. They only have faces.
Can you see my itty, bitty violin? It's playing now--she's reinforcing the system that we're trying to fix. Excuse me if I save my compassion for someone who deserves it.
Finally, telling someone they need Zyprexa, a medicine for schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, and bipolar disorder, because YOU happen to disagree with their opinions is rude so I'll be rude to you. YOU do not deserve respect, and I think that I deserve an apology from you because what you said was unspeakably rude.

Meanwhile, I feel like posting more stuff about maps, because cartography is cool. :)

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/

Maybe she just didn't want to say that it has to do with the insular nature of US culture that leads us to ignore our place in the greater global community, or that the American education system just isn't that good compared to other developed countries.

Hey, it's possible! I mean, those were the two answers that immediately popped into my head, and I immediately started trying to think of ways to talk around them because, let's face it, that's not what the judges of a Miss USA pageant are going to want to hear.

Maybe she just didn't want to say that it has to do with the insular nature of US culture that leads us to ignore our place in the greater global community, or that the American education system just isn't that good compared to other developed countries.
I think that's pretty much what I was saying. I'm not a betting person, but I bet you'd be very hard-pressed to find an American that knew the names of Mexico's or Canada's leaders, let alone the new prime minister of the U.K. That's just not what's taught, we're very focused on our own history.

The ceaseless, ritualistic humiliation/mockery of this poor girl is sick when it happens anywhere, but it's disappointing how much of it is showing up on a feminist website.

Look, people get nervous. Even people who have had a chance to prepare for a public speaking appearance get nervous. I've seen people flop worse than this in a university seminar presentation FROM A PREPARED TEXT.

This colossal screw up is not evidence that this girl is a dumb blonde joke come to life.

Not to mention the "gotcha" nature of the question: a girl from South Carolina, competing in an AMERICAN BEAUTY PAGEANT, gets asked a question that is basically "Americans are stupid. Why do you think that is?"

If you're expecting some banal question about the importance of charity and world peace and that's what they give you, of course you're going to freeze up. Give the poor soul a break.

The ceaseless, ritualistic humiliation/mockery of this poor girl is sick when it happens anywhere, but it's disappointing how much of it is showing up on a feminist website.

Look, people get nervous. Even people who have had a chance to prepare for a public speaking appearance get nervous. I've seen people flop worse than this in a university seminar presentation FROM A PREPARED TEXT.

This colossal screw up is not evidence that this girl is a dumb blonde joke come to life.

Not to mention the "gotcha" nature of the question: a girl from South Carolina, competing in an AMERICAN BEAUTY PAGEANT, gets asked a question that is basically "Americans are stupid. Why do you think that is?"

If you're expecting some banal question about the importance of charity and world peace and that's what they give you, of course you're going to freeze up. Give the poor soul a break.

I din't say anything about a conspiracy theory. NO ONE said that so you can drop your conspiracy theory excuse and just say you were being a rude toe rag.
Well, duh. You didn't say it was a conspiracy theory. I idenified it as one because you took a completely inocuous statement from someone who didn't even know what the heck she was doing up there and turned it into nationalist propaganda.

And I sincerely doubt someone with an anxiety issue would even be in a beauty pageant. As someone who has anxiety issues, I can tell you that we generally don't put ourselves in the public eye, we try to escape it. And some of us are pushed into the public eye by parents who try to live vicariously through their kids. How do you know she's not a victim of that? How do you know she's not confident when it comes to public speaking? Public speaking is the most common phobia.
Can you see my itty, bitty violin? It's playing now--she's reinforcing the system that we're trying to fix. Excuse me if I save my compassion for someone who deserves it.
Not mentioning a name is also something we should fix. She's not not Lauren Caitlin Upton. She's the beauty pageant contestant who fucked up, and we can make fun of her because we don't like beauty pageants. She doesn't deserve an ounce of respect. We can't give her the benefit of the doubt because she dresses in bathing suits on stage. Lots of women make a living wearing nothing on stage, and feminists still believe that they deserve respect.
Finally, telling someone they need Zyprexa, a medicine for schizophrenia, anxiety disorders, and bipolar disorder, because YOU happen to disagree with their opinions is rude so I'll be rude to you.
I didn't say it because I disagreed with you. I said it because you made a statement simply dripping with paranoia. And I'm not surprised that you're being rude to me. You're the biggest hypocrite around with your "don't say anything about mental disorders because I have one, but it's okay for everyone to make someone feel like shit for being nervous and stumbling over their words in front of an audience of millions." You can bust on her chops, but once someone busts on yours, it's a scandal!
YOU do not deserve respect, and I think that I deserve an apology from you because what you said was unspeakably rude.
I have an itty bitty violin too, you know. It's playing "Your Hypocrisy Has Nothing to Do with Your Diagnoses, So Quit Your Whining and Get Over It."

I said it because you made a statement simply dripping with paranoia.
Ok, this is the last time I'll deal with this. I'll type this very, very slowly so you can understand it.
1. I wasn't the only person who said that she represents America's crap educations sytem.
2. Wtf? I just don't think what I said was paranoid.
She fucked up in public and it happened to be funny. Then, when everyone probably would have forgotten about it, she went on some morning show and talked about it even more. The poor flower is positively scarred!
Jebus, I hope you never go on YouTube and see anything funny, it might scar your Feminit High Horse Sensibilities. Maybe you should take a Mellow the Fuck Out and Get the Stick out of your Ass Feminist Pill and grow a sense of humor with your X chromosome.
And yeah, there really is a difference between laughing at a girl fuck up in a beauty pageant and the mentally ill. She CHOSE to be in a situation where she knew she'd be asked questions and happened to fuck up. I, & the countless others who have mental illnesses didn't choose our situations. And the next time someone says "That's so retarded" on the comments and you bitch them out, I hope you remember this because it's no different.