Women Don't Ask: The High Cost of Avoiding Negotiation—and Positive Strategies for Change, by Sara Laschever and Linda Babcock was first published in 2003 and recently released in paperback February 2007. I know some women who think this book has truly changed their lives and their literal outlooks.
Sara Laschever, pictured above, is a writer whose work has appeared in the New York Times, the New York Review of Books, the Village Voice, Vogue and other publications.
Here's Sara...
When Linda approached the dean at her school to ask why only male graduate students were given their own courses, the dean told her, "Women don't ask." That led Linda on a journey to uncover the reasons why women often have difficulty asking, and negotiating, for what they want. How did you become involved in writing Women Don't Ask, and what did you hope to accomplish by working with Linda?
I'd already written a great deal about the experiences of women in the workplace, women in the arts and academia, in the sciences, and in business. When Linda and I met and she described her project, it seemed like a perfect fit—a great and worthwhile subject and a wonderful collaborator. I was particularly attracted to working with Linda because of her commitment to building a strong research foundation for the work. I didn't want to write a book based on anecdotal evidence or good guesses about what goes on. I wanted to write a book that proved the existence of this social phenomenon and demonstrated its real impact, especially because nobody had ever studied it before.
What type of reaction did you receive when the first edition was published?
The reaction was extraordinary. The subject struck such a powerful chord with women in every walk of life, from those in relatively low-skilled jobs to women working full-time at home, and even women in high-flying professions and very senior positions. One female vice president of a big corporation told me that before she read the book she thought if was for women who were less successful than she, but when she read it she realized that she never asks for anything for herself either. Many women have said that the book changed their lives—a great thing to hear if you're an author.
Women still earn 76 cents to every dollar a man makes. Based on your research, how much of that is attributable to women not asking (and the forces in place that discourage women from asking)?
Many other causes of the wage gap have long been identified and discussed: outright discrimination, women entering lower-paying professions more than men do, and women interrupting their careers to care for their families. But even when you adjust for all those factors, the gap remains. Women in the most senior positions of the highest-paid professions who have never interrupted their careers still make only 90 percent of what men in comparable positions earn. We can't say for certain that women's reluctance to ask for more is the only cause of that persistent gap but it's a substantial contributor.
One challenge for women in negotiation is that we are often unaware of what we can negotiate for. When it comes to negotiating for a new job, for example, salary surveys on career sites are so general, the information often is useless. Should women do more networking with one another? How do we find out what we should ask for, from salary to bonuses to benefits? Do men talk openly with one another about salaries? If not, how do they know what to ask for?
Women absolutely need to network with each other and with friendly and approachable men, as well. Women tend to be excluded from or peripheral to many of the social and professional networks in which men exchange
information about what to ask for, who to ask, when to ask, how to ask. Women need to find ways into those networks if they're going to gain access to all that information.
Some men will talk openly about salaries, but this can be awkward and in some businesses taboo. The trick is to find indirect ways of getting the information you need. Ask, "What do you think the range of salaries might be for someone performing [x] function at [y] level?" Or, "If you were going to go after such-and-such a job, what would you aim for?" Or, "How much do you know about the system for awarding bonuses around here?" The key is to ask people to share their expertise rather than pressing them to talk about themselves.
Women also need to be resourceful and aggressive about tracking down information by other means. Career services offices at one's alma mater and alumni networks can be rich sources of information. There's also a lot more information about salaries on the Web than many people realize, not just on the major job-search sites, but on government sites (both publicly owned corporations and nonprofits must post extensive financial statements, for example), stock analysts reports, and career-counseling sites for women (of which there are thousands).
Most of the research cited looks at differences between women and men. Did any of your research look at negotiation from a perspective of class, race or ethnicity? Are there any lessons there?
Many people ask this question, and it's a great question. Not much research has been completed on variations within minority groups but some of that research is currently being done. I look forward to the results.
How has the research informed your own willingness to ask for the things you want, whether it's in your career or at home? Were you always an asker?
I definitely ask for things much more frequently than I did before, although I grew up in a household in which my father told all of us (two boys and two girls), "Don't accept no for an answer the first three times." That's pretty good negotiating advice, once you've asked. But I learned from writing the book that there are also a lot more situations in which you can probably get more or do better than you think.
You and Linda are writing Ask for It. What can we expect from the follow-up to Women Don't Ask?
Ask For It concentrates much more on advice and practical strategies: How to figure out what you really want, recognize more opportunities to negotiate, and then prepare thoroughly beforehand so that you can negotiate skillfully and successfully. It's a very practical, step-by-step guide to help women incorporate the impulse to negotiate into their daily lives to make it a habit—and then become comfortable asking for what they want because they know how to do it well.
Any parting words?
I always say, ask for more and ask often.
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I appreciate the cheerleading for asking, but I recall that your own research showed that one major reason women don't ask is women know that they won't be as well-received and may even punished for asking. Are you looking into ways to help women determine what times they can ask while minimizing the risk of a sexist backlash?
I'm not so sure that women *knew* they wouldn't be "as well-received and may be even punished for asking" before this study was done. How would you even be able to correlate such a thing without a study?
At any rate, I remember reading my first article regarding negotiation about 5 years ago. The thought of negotiation had never even occurred to me before then! Since that time, I've negotiated starting salary at every new job, and at every salary review period (as well as when getting promotions). I haven't always gotten what I've asked for, but I've always gotten *something*, which is more than I'd have gotten if I didn't ask. And personally I've never felt any negative repercussions from this.
I've also gotten my husband in the habit as well. The thought of negotiating had never occurred to him either.
We also have a male friend who NEVER negotiates because he doesn't believe it's the right thing to do. That seems weird to me, but we all have our personal guidelines we live by.
Just some anecdotes for y'all. It's interesting how widely our individual lives can diverge from studies.
I've spent most of my life in blue collar jobs - I've been a union carpenter for the last 15 years, prior to that I was a factory worker.
And in jobs like that, when they hire you, there is a certain pay rate that you, and anybody else they hire in that title, gets paid.
Currently, union carpenters in New York City get $ 41.47 an hour.
And that pay rate applies to EVERY union carpenter - you aren't going to get paid any more by "negotiating".
The union collectively negotiates that pay rate with the employers associations every couple of years - that's the only 'negotiating' that goes on and, of course, it's collective bargaining.
I suspect that most working class women have jobs like mine, where your pay is preset - like janitors, or restaurant servers, or bartenders, or supermarket cashiers, or warehouse workers.
And, like my job, the only realistic way these sisters can get a raise is to COLLECTIVELY bargain, rather than fruitlessly trying to individually negotiate!!!
I wonder why Ms Laschever doesn't talk about that?
Yay, Union GREGORY!
Interestingly, it was the union of women clerical workers 925 that noted a spike in complaints for firings of pregnant women -- between the date the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA) was passed, and the date it passed into law.
Utterly disgusting. No amount of individual negotiation is going to fight shit like THAT.
While it's true that blue collar jobs may have more standardization in entry-level pay rates, there is still the problem of who gets promoted above the initial rung of the ladder. If negotiation is necessary to make the move from cashier to department management, women may still be at a disadvantage.
Great point, GREGORY!
The more unions are effective, the closer we can come to abolishing the wage gap. I find it hard to believe that anybody besides the men (and women) who sign the paychecks want to keep this system going. My wife's paycheck effects my financial situation as much as mine does hers. Men and women collectively bargaining for equal pay will begin to level the playing field. Teaching women and men to ask for what they want will abolish the biggest obstacle to true change in our systems...apathy.
I'd actually heard of this before. I was reading a book called Kiss My Tiara by Susan Jane Gilman. She has a chapter about how women never ask for promotions or raises. It's actually a very, very good book and I got a lot of good potential career advice out of it. I found it in the humor section of Books A Million. Anyway, after reading said book, that part stuck with me. In it, she has a friend confess she pays her female teachers less than the male teachers because the female ones don't ask for raises.
We lost 4 shift leads on a staff of 11 people at my job within 3 weeks of eachother. So since I actually had a small amount of seniority, I asked my manager if I could start working on shift lead and she said sure. I got a $.50/hr raise and management experience to put on my resume next year when I finish my degree. So I'd call that a successful experiment.
Apathy? Please. Teaching? Whatever.
Amanda Marcotte made the point: If you're a woman, it can be more costly to negotiate than not to.
As for the question of whether/how women new this before Laschever's work: easy. We had some experience with it. A lifetime of indoctrination to be self-denying and self-effacing should be enough, but just in case it fails to hit home, you can add the derision we know is due to the workplace "bitch." With all due respect, it's like saying that before Newton, nobody knew apples fell.
Whoa, chill - I was just saying that how could someone know it was the act of negotiation that was giving one the "bitch" reputation?
To use your own analogy, we didn't know *what* made the apples fall before Newton. That's the point.
Weird. I am chill. I seem to get that a lot.
I gotcha now.
Peepers,
There is a difference between being assertive and being a jerk, no matter what your gender is. Waiting for someone to notice your great work and reward you for a job well done is an incredibly passive way to live life, and I have no time for any woman or man who expects everything to be handed to them.
Are there specific problems that women have in regards to how they are viewed by their co-workers or superiors? Absolutely. Should this be an excuse not to take some agency in your own life and try to affect positive change in it? Hells no.