Stephen Colbert, will you be my baby daddy?

How awesome was that? I think it's great that Colbert is finally bringing up the fact that, ahem... feminism is NOT about grinding on a pole and screaming about how empowered you feel. It's about making choices for yourself, not doing something just because "[your] husband likes it" a lot.

I'm not saying that this kind of thing might not feel empowering to some women. I'm just saying that it seems like activities like pole dancing have more to do with acting out male fantasies rather than our own desires. But oh how it chaps my ass when these women keep insisting on how their actions are inherently feminist.

Actually, I think that the strip club manager was the most likeable person in the entire piece. At least he was honest!

I dunno, I think pole dancing aerobics sounds kind of fun. Of course, I didn't say "empowering." I said "fun."

I suppose pole dancing is feminist if you assume that feminism=using your "feminine wiles" to gain influence over men. Otherwise, not so much.

Being sex-positive is great, and compatible with most brands of feminism (certainly mine), but there's a world of difference between enjoying one's sexual nature and being a sex object.

oh god I saw this the other day and I just kept laughing for about ten minutes. These people HAVE to know that he's being satirical. I just don't understand how pole dancing while men in the other room drink beer and watch is empowering... I agree with the person above me, I think it seems fun to pole dance, but not empowering.

The husband's quote near the end was soooo telling -- "I think it's great that they think pole dancing is feminist. That way, I don't look like a pig for watching it."

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that, honey.

And TLF, THAT is why they construct these behaviors as "feminist" in the first place. To give it legitimacy. It's completely self-serving.

Steven Colbert is so refreshing. While most men try their hardest to convince women to do man-serving things while constructing it as "feminist," he is willing to put himself out there and advocate for actual feminism. And he uses humor to do it. I wonder how many of his viewers have had their eyes open to feminist issues by watching him?

My husband and I saw this last and could not stop laughing. "The Susan B. Anthony of Pole Dancing"?!
There was an interesting segment on NPR a few months ago about people calling just about anybody "The Susan B. Anthony" of whatever slight problem came up in their lives. Absurd. And insulting to the great woman Susan B. Anthony.
One of the funniest parts of this, to me, was when one girl says that the most "empowering" aspect of her new hobby is when she gets to swing around the pole.
Fun (as many of you said) - yes!
Empowering - what?!?
Anyway, I love Colbert! Can't get enough! I don't have (or want) a TV or cable, so hubby and I download the Daily Show and Colbert each night from Itunes. Good times.

Sarah, totally.

I love Colbert. His wife is one lucky lady ;)

I so appreciated the Hustler guy's honesty. I mean, I don't agree with him, but at least he's owning what he does.

Is it just me or did those women in the class look... less than thrilled?

This reminds me of a classic Onion article: "Women Now Empowered by Everything a Woman Does."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/women_now_empowered_by_everything

Hilarious. I missed this when it aired, thanks for posting it.

Can any of these "stripper pole feminists" explain just how pole dancing is empowering? Fun, exciting, enjoyable, sure. I'm confused where "empowering" comes in. Just because it's an overwhelmingly female occupation? I don't get it.

My one stripper friend said she liked dancing and liked the money, but she never made a big feminist deal about it.

This segment was highlarious and irritating. It was also, incidentally, part of Monday night's show where Stephen looked sexily at the camera -- in that way where you just know he's looking right at *you* -- and asked, "did ya miss me?" I giggled stupidly and said, "yes..."

To the actual content of this post... :o)

I can see how a group of women getting together and allowing themselves -- regardless of height, weight, shape, etc. -- to get together and feel sexy and could be empowering. I can also see *perhaps* reclaiming the stripper pole in order to accomplish this. But when you have women in you invite men to the class to watch, and the women in your class gush about how much their husbands like it, well... that's not so empowering.

I mean... I could understand that, if a woman were being truly empowered and gaining confidence in herself, that could project a positive vibe that a (good) man would find really sexy. But the "oh, my husband really likes this" seems to be skipping that crucial middle step. Commune, empower, be confident and sexy. Not commune to "help" women be sexier for their male partners.

Some of the Hustler dancer's moves looked very difficult, especially the one where she pulled herself upside down onto the pole. I'm not kidding. I couldn't do that.

I hate-hate-hate the sexy=empowering thing, but if it would ever be possible to ponder pole dancing in a patriarchy-free vacuum, I'd say the physical feat is impressive. And I can see how that might lead one to the appeal of "stripper aerobics" - it's not easy, it's something you have to learn, and there's a definite method and set of moves that are acceptable within the genre. If you gain the skillset, you've accomplished "something."

But.

In a vacuum it is not. So - boo-hiss pole dance "feminists."

Oh dear... the end of the second paragraph above should read "But when you invite ment to the class to watch..." I had two thoughts to get into the sentence, and the both came out at the same time and look really funny now.

I have to disagree with most of you. I am of the mindset that strippers are the ones exploiting the men and how they effortlessly throw money away when it comes to a little T'nA. And that is fine with me. I'd rather be the one making a good living showing off some skin and graceful athleticism than I would wasting my hard-earned money on a brief turn-on.

I've reduced myself to a sex object! It's so empowering!

And that's why Stephen continues to be my personal hero.

1. You can be a feminist and still pole-dance. Not everything a feminist does is a feminist action, just as not everything a mother does is a maternal action. I think you can pay homage to
Aphrodite in one space, Athena in another, and Artemis in a third.

2. Gaining confidence in your sexuality can help you to be confident in other areas of your life -- such as pushing for equality of the sexes.

Ms. Mink has absorbed these points, but then conflated them with the notion that "pole dancing=feminist". I'd say it's more of a logical flaw than an ideological one.

katliz, you're conflating stripping professionally (for which one gets paid) with stripping amateur-ly (for which one *pays*, at least to learn).

Others can take on your "stripping = expoitation of men" argument if they wish, but to start with, let's be clear that the power dynamics of professional stripping is not the subject of the post or most of the comments.

And I should add, stripping =/= pole dancing.

And I should add, pole dancing =/= stripping(though obviously the two can be combined).

Ms. Mink has absorbed these points, but then conflated them with the notion that "pole dancing=feminist". I'd say it's more of a logical flaw than an ideological one.

I see what you mean here. I agree that pole dancing isn't inherently anti-feminist--I think it all depends on the woman doing it and her motivations for doing it. In this case, I don't think that Mink quite "gets" that pole dancing does not automatically make her a feminist.

Gawd, I can't believe i just typed that...

Liza wrote:I dunno, I think pole dancing aerobics sounds kind of fun. Of course, I didn't say "empowering." I said "fun."

Yep, watching this made me think "huh, I almost want a pole to play on... no, wait, what I really want is an adult-sized jungle gym." It'd be a lot more "empowering" to teach women that it's still fun for grown-up women to horse around on what's basically an oversized play structure--without having to justify themsleves by posing for men while doing it.

Think of the woman who declared that she thinks spinning around the pole is the most "empowering" part of pole dancing. That's not empowerfulness, lady, it's sheer physical joy--something adults, especially women, aren't allotted very much of in our culture unless they can sneak it in under cover of "working out" (an unpleasant task undertaken to look good for men), or dancing around in a sexualized way (while looking good for men, natch).

This is pretty much in the same vein as what everyone else said- it really annoys me when people say that this (and Lil Kim, and The Pussycat Dolls, and Jessica Simpson writhing around on a car) are helping to empower women. I don't quite understand what's so empowering about impersonating someone whose job it is to writhe around just to please a bunch of men. I also don't understand why the men would encourage their wives to learn how to pole dance/strip, because you know pole dancers and/or strippers are FAKING arousal for the purpose of pleasing men.

The local community college just did a front page story on the new "aerobic pole-dancing" phenomenon. Because, you know. This is important stuff.

Learning how to sexually objectify yourself is not empowering, and does nothing to promote respect for yourself and other women. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

@cest.la.vie: I'm sure they included plenty of pictures, too, a la New York Times?

From what I've seen online, the only picture is a group of very young girls posed around the pole. The print edition might have more photos-- but then again, this is an extremely conservative area. I actually feel like they chose the subject because the students wanted to appear "cutting edge"-- and after all, pole dancing is a great way to introduce the topic of female sexuality. Right?

Also according to the article: pole-dancing classes are "desperately needed" in this area. Who woulda thought.

It may be pretty rudimentary for us to say what is, and what is not empowering to someone dancing on a pole. I am not advocating anything other than the fact that power is a very gray, personal and political issue. See all of the greats, Bourdieu, Foucault, Chomsky and they will tell you that power is not a zero sum game. Regardless, what we are talking about it equality. Dancing on a pole to entertain men does not mean that men see you as an equal to them (unless they are right up there humping the pole with you). But does it yield you a certain type of power? Of course, if you were not dancing on a pole, the men would not be there. Does dancing on a pole empower women? Yes in some ways, does it do anything for the feminist movement? maybe not, but what if someone didnt have the choice over how she wanted to use her own body, isn't that what were all about?

It may be pretty rudimentary for us to say what is, and what is not empowering to someone dancing on a pole. I am not advocating anything other than the fact that power is a very gray, personal and political issue. See all of the greats, Bourdieu, Foucault, Chomsky and they will tell you that power is not a zero sum game. Regardless, what we are talking about it equality. Dancing on a pole to entertain men does not mean that men see you as an equal to them (unless they are right up there humping the pole with you). But does it yield you a certain type of power? Of course, if you were not dancing on a pole, the men would not be there. Does dancing on a pole empower women? Yes in some ways, does it do anything for the feminist movement? maybe not, but what if someone didnt have the choice over how she wanted to use her own body, isn't that what were all about?

But does it yield you a certain type of power?

Yes, if you're young, thin, long-haired and otherwise conventionally attractive, some men might let you have that "power" over them when you pole dance. But it's power given at their will and can be revoked at any time. In other words, it's not really power. Making men aroused doesn't equal power, it just equals, well, making men aroused.

Oh, and YES to the adult-sized jungle gyms! (Sadly, we'd probably have to have woman-only jungle gyms, since men seem to have a nasty habit of making everything we do into a sexual thing and would probably interpret our every move as showing off for them.)

Ha! I was wondering when someone was going to post this. Yay Stephen!

"because you know pole dancers and/or strippers are FAKING arousal for the purpose of pleasing men."

Ah, but sadly that's not a given. My partner's employees go to the strip club sometimes together, and when they've been talking about how some girl was totally into them, he's tried explaining they've PAID to pretend... Non comprende. Eugh

I've taken a pole dancing class, and it was one hell of a workout. As for empowering, that's a little harder to say. In taking the class, i had to step out of my comfort zone and by the end of the class was a little more comfortable with my body, and made me more confident. Whether or not it empowers you I suppose depends on the reasons you're doing it. I definitely didn't do it to show anybody.

For a really interesting read related to this, there's a play I read for my feminist theatre class called True Confessions of A Go-Go Dancer by Jill Morley. It's about several different go-go dancers, why they dance and how they feel about it. I highly reccomend it.

oops its True Confessions of a Go Go Girl. Here's a link to Jill Morley's website:

www.jillmorley.com

I'm not really sure how I feel about the industry. on a personal level I don't like it, but as I'm trying to build my feminist understanding, I am not sure if I want to agree that the women are doing something good for themselves by using their bodies to make money, or if it's just further keeping women as sex objects...I wish I was more awake and eloquent right now, I hope this is making sense.
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I definitely don't like the idea that it's to exploit men, or that exploiting others by getting naked for them in itself represents something beneficial... I'm still learning about this perspective and trying to form an opinion though.

cycles- try rock climbing!!

The moves are harder than that and it is one of the few sports where women can compete with men because it is strength against your own body weight and flexibility helps a lot!

What can be more empowering then opening up every cliff and mountain as your playground. You can get to places non-climbers can't reach and get there with strength, grace and impressive moves.

This is the best video I think I've ever seen. Ever.

thanks for posting!
am i really the only (rabidly feminist) stripper commenter?

i've always found this new "trend" hilarious, especially coming from a dancer's perspective. economically -- the less taboo my job is, the less i make, but that aside: pole dancing IS really fun and i'd certainly encourage anyone who wants a workout (i was a totally weakling) or just some goofing around to try it.

nevertheless, i'm totally grossed out by the marketing of these classes being "strip for your man" or some empowerment-bs. i feel the same way when i see girls buying cheezy underwear or clothes just like the ones i wear at work. (or see non porn star or dancer girls with implants! why??) i do the things i do because i get paid! who in their right mind would pay for the "privilege"?! i live in my cotton boycut undies when i'm not wearing my regulation work thong.

even more disturbing is that i've heard of some advertisements for pole dancing classes that carry the disclaimer that "none of our instructors are or ever have been REAL strippers." thats the worst insult of it all. co-opt my livelihood while looking down on the real thing?!

"I suppose pole dancing is feminist if you assume that feminism=using your 'feminine wiles' to gain influence over men."

What if someone takes pole dancing lessons when most men would feel turned off by how she looks?

For those of us whose bodies don't meet conventional beauty standards, telling us "don't show off your body" is telling us the same thing the patriarchies tell us.

"I mean... I could understand that, if a woman were being truly empowered and gaining confidence in herself, that could project a positive vibe that a (good) man would find really sexy. But the 'oh, my husband really likes this' seems to be skipping that crucial middle step. Commune, empower, be confident and sexy. Not commune to 'help' women be sexier for their male partners."

Exactly.

"Yep, watching this made me think 'huh, I almost want a pole to play on... no, wait, what I really want is an adult-sized jungle gym.' It'd be a lot more 'empowering' to teach women that it's still fun for grown-up women to horse around on what's basically an oversized play structure--without having to justify themsleves by posing for men while doing it."

Does this remind anyone else of le parkour?

Would LOVE to have my own jungle gym! Having said that, a pole is not a jungle gym. IMO it's not possible to separate the physical pole from the historical use of it in pole dancing BY women FOR men's viewing and sexual pleasure. Yes, it's great for women to experience the strength it takes to lift oneself on the pole, but my guess is that's not what they are learning in the living room-based classes. I like chem fem's rock climbing recommendation. I live in an area that has adult gymnastics classes. I practice Iyengar yoga. These are all good ways for women to experience their bodies as full of strength and not simply as something to be looked at.

I have always had a hard time with the logic that "if it makes her feel empowered, she IS empowered." When dancing around a pole for men or stripping for them is seen as a form of empowerment, it only points out how few venues for power women actually have. Feeling empowered doesn't make it so. Often those feelings of empowerment, when examined closely, are vis-a-vis other women. For example, some women who get breast implants claim to feel empowered by them...because men are looking at them now. What this really means is that "I am better looking than those other, small breasted women." It doesn't mean, "Wow, people really listen to my opinions and respect me." I just don't think that we can say this is about empowerment. It's about competition among women.

When dancing around a pole for men or stripping for them is seen as a form of empowerment, it only points out how few venues for power women actually have.

I think you seriously hit the nail on the head there. What images are represented as "empowered" to girls and women? It's not Hillary and Nancy that girls are being taught to look up to--it's sexualized stars like the Pussycat Dolls, Jessica Simpson, etc.. In other words, a woman's worth is still in her sex organs.

When dancing around a pole for men or stripping for them is seen as a form of empowerment, it only points out how few venues for power women actually have.

I think you seriously hit the nail on the head there. What images are represented as "empowered" to girls and women? It's not Hillary and Nancy that girls are being taught to look up to--it's sexualized stars like the Pussycat Dolls, Jessica Simpson, etc.. In other words, a woman's worth is still in her sex organs.

As a total aside, I will repeat here what I commented at Feministe:
It's funny alright but that note to self: hire more women line at the beginning isn't REALLY that funny, since one of the things that irks me most about my beloved Daily Show and liked well enough Colbert Report is the serious lack of female staff writers. (According to Wikipedia there's currently ONE woman writing for (i>The Daily Show and IMDb shows two women on staff between 2005-2006.)

My only concern about this is that Colbert viewers will get the wrong message.
Rather than thinking, "He's right! That's not actually feminist or empowering," they'll think, "He's right! Feminists are so stupid" (believing that feminists - rather than pseudofeminists - consider pole-dancing the ultimate feminist expression).

Thanks for posting that. I don't get cable anymore and I miss the Report.

The video made me lol and the comments here made me think. Nice!