So, you would prefer these guys were out in the dating pool? :)

Two minutes. I couldn't make it past two minutes of this thing. I may try again later once I've scrubbed my brain off a bit.

“So, you would prefer these guys were out in the dating pool? :)�

That's not a joke, it's a good point. These guys are harmless. What's scary to us is that we suspect they are reflecting the attitudes of men who are in relationships with real women.

But some of these Real Doll loving men could also just be extreme outliers—not reflecting cultural sexism, but simple their own social pathology.

It seems to me to be a waste of time and concern to pay any attention to these very few men, much less posting about them multiple times here. They are so few, the behavior is so extreme, it's a shaky contention that they represent some sort of distillation of our cultural sexism or the male perception of women. They reminds us of this, and this causes us to suspect this, but that doesn't make it true and, anyway, these men just aren't important to anyone. It's a freakshow and being outraged at freaks is a diversion from being outraged at the freakish yet ubiquitous male behavior that is nevertheless acceptable to most people in our sexist culture.

“not reflecting cultural sexism, but simple their own social pathology.�
and
“it's a shaky contention that they represent some sort of distillation of our cultural sexism or the male perception of women.�

But, don’t you wonder why there aren’t any women out there who have doll boyfriends, if this is completely independent of social attitudes?

I'm fairly certain there are male versions of the doll or maybe made by another company. I'm pretty sure that i've seen one in a documentary I watched about sex toys and technology recently.

at any rate, I kinda feel bad for these guys. I bet they have a lot of self-esteem issues and poor social skills.

actually soujourner, i just saw an HBO Real Sex episode about the male dolls. the creator said he was getting tons of calls for them and they did a little focus group with some women and one of the dolls. very weird...

i just felt really sad for these men. i don't think it was a matter of wanting women who are like dolls in that they can't move, talk etc, but much, much more about having someone who won't reject them. they obviously have trouble interacting with real people. it didn't seem from this that any of them had any real friends or relationships of any kind. they made comments about being ugly, etc. while i think it's creepy, it also shows that women are not the only ones affected by society's standards of beauty. they feel unworthy and terrified of rejection (which they've probably experienced time and again) and so they've decided to form a "relationship" with something that can't reject them or leave.

it's creepy. it's sad. but i don't get the impression that it's about wanting ACTUAL woman to be mute and lifeless. they all seemed to want actual companionship, they just don't know how to get it.

To each their own I guess.

But it does make me wonder about whether or not women have doll boyfriends...

I wonder if having a doll makes it progressively harder and harder to try dating real women. At least two of those men seemed very particular about their houses and lives, repeating "and so everything's my way" or something similar. If you're with a doll for a year, then meet a woman, you're going to notice that she's not always wearing clothes you like, doesn't always do her make-up the way you want, leaves things around the house, all the other very small issues that are part of being with a person rather than a doll. I feel like if a man goes that route, there's really no going back for him, no matter what he says.

And I think most of these men could've benefitted more by putting the money they spent on the dolls towards social counseling or sessions with a psychiatrist. Human interaction is important.

I think I agree somewhat with Keith, this seems to be something that is being made into a freak show. Its not like its something just any guy could get into. Personally I couldnt care less if someone decides to blow their brains out, or live with a doll. As long as they keep themselves to themselves I have no problem. Its their own life really.

I couldnt watch much of the clip though. Not just because its so *different*, but because these guys are clearly putting their lives (however damaged some might say they are) on display for others to see, and Im not comfortable with that. And that is in regards to everyone, not just people whose lives that are being made into a freak show for audiences watching TV.

I sympathized immensely with the men for what veex pointed out, the seeming strong sensitivity to rejection.

Keith Ellis said: It seems to me to be a waste of time and concern to pay any attention to these very few men...it's a shaky contention that they represent some sort of distillation of our cultural sexism or the male perception of women.
To the contrary Keith, the men's relationships with the dolls, to me, represent the flipside of culture's excessive objectification of real women — anthropomorphizing sex toys that are designed to merely look a whole lot like women.

That has a lot to do with what I find disquieting about the dolls, besides the issue that was called out in the video by the doll repairman and his girlfriend — that they are unrealistically gorgeous and flawless, ever-available sex objects.

"That's not a joke, it's a good point."

I see no reason it can't be both. I'm a socially inept loser with no real chance of ever getting laid and even I find this to be extreme. But, given that these guys aren't hurting anyone, why not let them be? When it comes to bizarre sex practices, this is about the most benign.

I only had time to watch 10 minutes of this, but from what I've seen, the guys don't appear to be particularly creepy... it's just horrible and spooky when the dolls look a bit like... well, corpses.

"very sad" seems applicable. "a little creepy" maybe. However, I don't see anything in this documentary (so far) that indicates any of these men want real women to be like dolls...rather that they want these dolls to be like real women. The photo the second man took of him casually "reading in the garden" with his dolls indicates that, and made me very sad.
I can honestly say I don't see how this is an issue this or any other feminist group or site should focus on. Looking at the cultural factors that make this type of thing happen may be relevant, but pointing and staring at some desperately lonely, unusual group just seems nasty.

I was also saddened and dismayed by the "purity" issue a couple of the men expressed. That is a real issue for women. (You know — the whole prescriptive norm that we be sexually be perpetually sexually stimulating, sexually available, and sexually "pure.") It is a real issue for men who want to relate meaningfully to women.

There is something so profoundly disturbing about this. It just screams of borderline necrophilia in a way. The way they lie there with death like expressions.

I agree with Peepers. And to me, it's this viewpoint--exemplified by the VA man who thinks that thong underwear makes a woman seem like she's had sex with 100 men, making her undesirable to him, and then comparing such a woman to a piece of meat that's been spit out--very much reflects cultural sexism.

Think about what a Real Doll represents to these men. A Real Doll is a girlfriend that never talks back, never asserts independence, and is always available for sex. In a patriarchal society, isn't this the perfect prototype for a woman?

Paraphilias like these are what happens when you have a society that combines social alienation, patriarchy, and an aversion to sex.

BethM, I don’t think you should judge this by appearances alone, because its different than that. After all, judging a dildo by appearances doesn’t look very healthy either does it? The difference is of course, how these objects are being treated. I admit they look expressionless and dead, but thats becuase they are dolls. The guys using them don’t treat them like corpses do they?

I think we need to separate out the two types of pathology here as this seems like a single symptom that have multiple causes.

I would imagine most of these men suffer from low self-esteem brought about by consistent rejection. Additionally many of them seem to show signs of OCD which probably brought about a lot of the rejection and the comments about needing to have things their way.

Often people who feel they have little control over their lives will focus on one element causing a mental disorder (e.g. controlling food through eatin/purging, cleanliness through constant cleaning, body image through surgery, etc.). And some of them seem to show signs of that kind of behavior. It is horrible for them and they should get help.

While some of them may have a mysogonist viewpoint, I do not believe that those viewpoints are necessarily linked to their need to be with a doll and more likely that given any selection of the male population you will find a subset of them who are also mysogonist.

Each of these men therefore are using dolls as a form of control over their lives which appears to be exterme mysogony because society says that men should be in control of women. It just happens that this is what they choose. Some choose food or cleaning or locking doors. This is theirs.

The men do not express misogyny, Orion. They express benevolent sexism (the compatible beliefs that traditional women are special, precious beings who ought to be cherished/protected, whereas non-traditional women deserve derision, scorn and abuse).

Your diagnoses seem odd to me. Are you trained to give psychological diagnoses?

Peepers, I can understand combating mens sexism against women perfectly, but what are we getting at here? From what I could glean, these guys have very little contact with anyone. They seem very isolated and lonely. So are you saying they cant act out their wishes on a doll they themselves bought, regardless of if its sexist?

Like I said, personally I couldnt care less what these guys are doing with those dolls, as long as they keep it to themselves. Just like my opinion on religion.

This video is really, really sad and disturbing.

Dear Mom and Dad,
I know you're not thrilled that I'm gay, but look on the bright side...at least my girlfriend is alive.

these guys have dolls, and girls have cats (and occasionally dogs). is one better than the other?

I see a few feminist issues in this video:

1. This is an old story. Artist sculpts a beautiful statue in the likeness of a woman and falls in love with the statue. Mannequin the movie... Stepford Wives... The idea that love and relationships can exist with inanimate objects is scary and anti-human.

2. Some of the comments made by the men in this documentary reveal sexist and anti-women ideas. For example, the third guy said he doesn't like things that make him think a woman has had former relationships or is sexually experienced. It makes him think of chewed up meat. He wants virginal, fresh women. It's OK for men to be sexually experienced but not for women. The second guy said he has an insatiable drive for beautiful women and he collects them. The doll repairman says he runs out of vaginas because they get destroyed. He says, "sex itself is a violent act." He continues, "the dolls are intimidating to women" because real women can't maintain that standard of beauty. The fourth doll lover says, "You can't do that with a person. She has a mind. You have to ask. And she has a right to say no." He gets it. But he still wants the fantasy of not having to ask.

3. How "real" can these dolls be if they weigh less than 100 pounds. These are "real" children. Where are the wrinkles? They don't blink, they don't moan, they don't have opinions. Real women aren't for sale. (Sure, some sell services, but none are available for purchase.)

4. The fact that these men feel like they can't talk to real women says we've got a social problem. Men shouldn't HAVE to be the initiators. Some men just aren't. Women shouldn't HAVE to be the gatekeepers... Gender roles stifle people.

5. Our obsession with appearance is insane. These men think they're not attractive enough to find a real human mate. They also overlook "unattractive" real women as potential partners and justify dolls because the dolls are prettier than the real women who would interact with them.

However, after having said all that, I agree that these iDollators are a very small section of society and shouldn't be too harshly criticized because most of their behaviors are a) relatively harmless and b) their own pathology and not representative of society.

Real Dolls are clearly yet another example of a beauty standard unattainable by real women. ;)

Peter, most single women I know who own cats or dogs aren't using them as a sexual replacement for another human being. They keep them for the company and affection, sure, but they don't have sex with them.

I think both (single men with their houses full of dolls and single women with houses full of cats) could be outgrowths of social anxiety disorders, but the sexual aspect to the former is what sets it apart.

these guys have dolls, and girls have cats (and occasionally dogs). is one better than the other?Wha?!?! My cat and I do not have a relationship like these poor guys do with their "dolls."

these guys have dolls, and girls have cats (and occasionally dogs). is one better than the other?Wha?!?! My cat and I do not have a relationship like these poor guys do with their "dolls."

My blockquoting really jacked up my comment. Basically, I said the same thing Genny said.

Genny - "Most"?

The way I see it is, I would no more question these guys desire to live with a doll (sexist attitudes included) than I would question some women’s desire to separate entirely from men, and concentrate solely on other women, and work entirely with women. There are differences I know, but if its what they want, then its what they want. I could understand if these men were treating REAL LIFE women like dolls. But as far as I can see, they are happy with just themselves and their doll, and since they don’t harm anyone else, I don’t care what they do with their lives.

Oh, and noname. Yeah, wink, wink. As if Real Dolls are anything but analog women. They look like they walked right off the pages of a jerk-off mag, already airbrushed to perfection. No cellulite, no bad breath, no talking back! It's a dickwad's dream.

I don't care what they do with their lives either, Phlegmatic. I don't see anyone suggesting we round them up and throw them in jail or anything. But it's still creepy and sad, and it's probably worth looking into. How many men feel unable to relate to women? And why?

I dont know, do people question some men’s desire to live single and avoid sex altogether?(Im pretty sure there are some around) I know its not exactly the same thing, and this one is perhaps in some ways less than ideal, but I just get the impression some people are really outraged by the idea. I cant help but see the view that these men somehow need more social interaction, and need to interact with the REAL opposite sex. And in not doing so, they are being unnatural, something Im pretty damn sure has been said about homosexual relationships before.

However, Im still indifferent about this anyway, and its not like I imagine these guys will care what others think, or how other will analyse them.

I'm not outraged by the idea that these guys choose to live this way, but I do think that an inability to relate to someone because of their gender is a problem. I think there are a lot of other men out there who similarly shun interaction with women and frequent prostitutes to get their rocks off. I think that sort of antisocial behavior and serial avoidance of interaction with women is the root of what's troubling these guys. And I do think they're troubled.

And to my above post, I just wanted to point out that I do see that the idea that a women might want to remain single, or not have children at all, is something that is seen as abnormal by many people as well.

Has feministing credited this video? (other than embedded in the video itself)--because I looked for a credit and couldn't find one.

I think there are a lot of other men out there who similarly shun interaction with women and frequent prostitutes to get their rocks off.

And I agree that in that situation it is probably going to, or most certainly will, lead to problems. However, these guys are shunning interaction with women, and instead interacting with their own property (whether they admit it or not).

Im not saying its a good thing, or a bad thing, Im saying its a thing. And as long as that thing affects only them, I dont think people should concern themselves over it, or even pity them. Because I see quite a lot of pity in the comments here. Either that, or disgust.

And I think while their inability to interact with women is much more pronounced, I get the impression they can barely interact with anyone. And if they can live like that, I dont mind. Just, like I said, so long as they dont start treating real women badly, or go insane or something. Which I imagine is what could happen if these men were to frequent prostitutes, or something like that.

That’s my whole point really. I don’t think this has caused any problems yet, so most certainly these guys could be doing MUCH worse than they are.

I know this is a bit delayed - but to answer the (way) above question of whether or not male dolls are available...they are. Same company. www.realdoll.com, click "dolls" on the left and the at the top is "Sample 1 'Charlie'".

Also, there's an advertisement at the bottom for a "flat-back" male OR female torso for only $1,299. With erect penis and everything. Now THATS a sophisticated dildo.

Oh, and the site defines their dolls as "love dolls". And, take a gander at the sample dolls to see how sex sells.

I get that these guys want companionship, and feel that they can't get it in in real life. Whatever their reasons may be, I feel a bit bad for them. But, look how sexualized these Sample Dolls are portrayed. ANYONE in the same range of situations portrayed in the video is going to be attracted to these ready and willing dolls (BOTH male or female dolls - Charlie looks ready to please).

And, just to finalize with my two-cents - the 46 minute video sent me into a confusion. I feel bad for some of the guys; the last guy at least just shoved them in a box when he was finished and regarded them as masturbation toys. But...a few of the other men are IN LOVE with their dolls, Davecat anyone? Hm. I don't know.

something i found more disturbing than these men (most of whom i believe are sad outliers) was the comment made by an employee of the RealDoll factory, in quoting the average customer--"these men say i'm forty, i'm losing my hair...i could never get a real woman who looks like this." so it's not that the typical customer is unable to "get a real girlfriend," it's that, though he is an imperfect specimen, he would rather have a perfect-looking dead doll than an equally imperfect real woman. that says something important about what men are conditioned to expect from women.

the other bit i found most upsetting was the Brit who said several times "it's better than no female companionship at all"--implying that a RealDoll provides a partial level of female companionship. which implies in turn that at least part of what men think of as "female companionship" are dead rubber tits, the physical existence/image of a woman. i don't think i know any women who'd consider a latex dick to provide them with "male companionship." that man in particular i found saddest of all of them, but, sad to say, i don't think his attitude would be considered very unusual among "normal" men.

Ha. This is NSFW, you are warned.
http://www.realdolldoctor.com/SilkyCharlie_Album.htm

But, there we go. Two realdolls making reallove.

Sorry, I had to. ;) Thought we could use a laugh.