I think I'd like to go home now.

God. I am so fucking glad I don't date. Ew.

What the hell? Um, how gross can Details possibly be? That picture is supposed to be sexy? Also, is it just me or does that train seem to be going more towards vaginal than anal territory?

Well, something tells me that the guy who wrote this piece and/or chose the accompanying picture doesn't know all that much about women's anatomy.

why would it be ok to demand sex of any kind, ever?

Man, after getting out of a reasonably long term relationship with someone who knew and respected my limits, I'm not looking forward to dating. Particularly not in the current college scene (I'm 20 going on 21). I think if anyone "demanded" anal sex from me on the first date I'd "demand" myself a cab and go the hell home. And never take their calls again.

Of course, that goes equally for most other kinds of sexual "demands". Male entitlement is a bitch.

It's amazing that they managed to just assume no man at any time wanted it done to him. They're supposedly offering "perspectives"--this one does it because he can brag, this one does it because he's emotionally stunted, this one does it because he wants more intimacy, but NONE of them even thinks about wanting it done. Not one.

And that would probably be the bridge to a woman's perspective on it, beyond "feeling pressure" to "let" a guy do it or trying to be a porn star. Given that this is one place where the sexes are TOTALLY equal (we all have anuses) it's amazing that these men didn't remember they had an ass. So it's not about sex at all, it's just another take on the virgin (she's a good girl, she just wants to give you pleasure even if she feels a little funny about it)/whore (she's yours, man, she'll do anything, any time) dichotomy, keeping the girls, girls and men, men.

The pic doesn't really bother me. I found it somewhat amusing.

OK, so at first I was just grossed out and pissed off by the photo and asking if it is ever OK to DEMAND any kind of sex... but now that I read the article in it's entirity... oh, it just gets worse...

"For most of my friends, it's sort of a domination thing," says John (not his real name), 30, a writer in New York. "[It's] basically getting someone in a position where they're most vulnerable. My friends enjoy that and they tell their friends they did it. But it's not like girls are ready for it—it's something they do when they're really drunk."

What the hell???? I believe that's called rape there John-boy (if she's so drunk that she can't consent at least, it is).

And the comments? I seriously cannot believe that an actual woman wrote this:

and to my husband, who is grossed out by NOTHING, its like the ultimate rewarding sexual finale for him. If this pleases him, i can tolerate walking funny and a burning butthole for a few hours.

this is disgusting.
and my first thought was the same as 13lesslee's, when is it EVER okay to DEMAND anything sexual?

answer: it's not. not ever.

Damn sage ya beat me to it. Hell given our prostates anal can be extra good for us. But then enjoying anal makes a man gay so...

And haven't any of these people heard of lube and foreplay. Ya don't just ram shit up there people.(no pun intended) Take some time, lube like hell, and actually enjoy yourselves. Its not a carnival game were ya ram it in and claim a prize. Its another way for people to be intimate and enjoy their bodies... Both people.

I blogged about this BS yesterday and I was hoping that feministing would pick up on it, too. It's beyond appalling that an intimate act would be seen as something that you gotta do so you can impress your friends. What. the. fuck.

On top of that, the fact that one of the interviewees would call it a "deal breaker" blew my mind. If it was a fair world, that guy would be jerking off alone FOREVER.

Ugh.

Well, there goes every other comment thread for the next several days.

I think I'm going to write the Lionel Train people about their new "XXX" line of model rail accessories.

Here, he pointedly stops short of romanticizing screwing a woman rectally. "Ideally, every girl is a disgusting pig who wants it," he says. "But only with you."

OH. MY. GOD.

Yep, Carolina, re: rape by virtue of not being able to consent because she's been drinking. I noticed that, too. I guess it's rape if someone wants to try to prosecute it. Which I doubt. But how lovely that in the meantime it's being joked about as okay in a mainstream men's magazine.

awesome.

"The physicality of it, being painful or whatever, shows how comfortable the girl is with you." Here, he pointedly stops short of romanticizing screwing a woman rectally. "Ideally, every girl is a disgusting pig who wants it," he says. "But only with you."

"Demand"? What in the fuck? It is not okay to "demand" any kind of sex from anyone ever. Gods, that's so fucked up.

Oh, sick. Just when I think I can't possibly hate men any more than I already do (half kidding), this comes along.
Sex is not even about people sharing pleasure to men; it's about domination and humiliation. This made me sick.

This is really disappointing b/c I thought Details was the one men's magazine that wasn't degrading to women (it doesn't routinely feature almost naked women in compromising position) and the focus is usually more on fashion and gadgets and whatnot....I guess I was sorely mistaken.

Is it OK to demand anything? I mean come on, seriously?

Is it OK to demand anything? I mean come on, seriously?

I once asked a male friend what the appeal of anal sex was. He answered quite honestly:

"Hotter, tighter, more degrading."

Well, all right then.

So what does all of this (the article itself and the comments on Feministing) say about women/men who actually ENJOY anal? I'm usually fairly disappointed in articles about this topic, since the majority of them really just discuss how you can trick or convince your partner to "let you" do it. It's interesting that nobody seems to think (or at least note) that butt stuff is something that some people voluntarily participate in. I'm not naming any names.

I also wonder if the reason that a lot of people aren't open to anal is because of articles like this that basically imply that it's not enjoyable, and something that men want but women are naturally supposed to have an aversion to.

Discuss!

Is it OK to demand anything? I mean come on, seriously?

I'm pretty sure it's not ok to demand any sex. When my bf made a hint that he wanted to try it, I said "Ok then, lets go find you a big fat dildo to put up your ass so that you will know what it feels like before you even attempt to do that with me." I figure that if my vagina isn't good enough, my ass surely isn't either. That place for me is only to expel things.
And I'm with Genny. If anyone demands that with me I too will demand a cab home. I happen to like walking around not feeling like I've had explosive diarrhea all day, thanks.

The picture is worse. The picture is vile.
And I agree with 13lesslee. So actually the headline is worse. The picture is teenage boy.

This is about where I stopped reading:

"I only had to persuade two girls. [I asked] 'Can I put it in your butt?'"

Yep, the words every girl just longs to hear, deep in her "disgusting pig" heart.

Let me tell you, one of my best friends had a boyfriend that 'demanded anal sex,' and now even the mention of his name triggers bad memories of his tireless emotional and physical abuse...

This is disgusting, but honestly, is anybody surprised? This is, after all, a magazine aimed at the Young Asshole Demographic, as it were (props to The Onion for that eternally useful phrase).

There are women who enjoy anal sex, and I think it's fine for them that they do. This article could have been about why people enjoy anal sex (and sometimes men do like it when women penetrate them anally, sometimes with a dildo, sometimes with just a finger to stimulate the prostate -- "tapping the walnut" is how I've always heard it described -- so men and women).

But that's not what this article was about. This article -- and its adolescent failure of a quasi-humorous picture (why not assemble a roadway and put a chocolate bar on it to make a "Hershey Highway" joke, boys?) -- were not about pleasure. They were about power, exploitation and dehumanization of women. With the notable exception of BDSM folk, who operate under specific and well-communicated rules, power and exploitation have no place in a respectful sexual relationship. None.

The misogynists who participated in this article and its picture are disgusting.

Oh this comment pisses me off 'Albert says. "There was definitely a thing in the back of my head like, 'I can't marry her.' How can I, knowing I can't go to all the places I can go with her?'

What, so you don't like a woman that has her own boundaries? Maybe she can't be with a man that can't respect her body and what she wants and does not want to do with it. Ugh! I bet he'd have a fucking freak out if she even mentioned him taking it up the butt.

Let someone demand sex from me anal or other wise and watch how fast I get up and leave. What you consent to do sexually is supossed to be something you were not pressured into some how a demand seems like pressure to me. Just a thought!

ekf,
You should submit what you wrote to Details.

So what does all of this (the article itself and the comments on Feministing) say about women/men who actually ENJOY anal?

I'm a regular commenter here (admins can email me if they want to prove this, of course), but I'm using a throwaway account because I don't want this story all over Google.

Well, I'm a male-bodied person who really enjoys anal penetration. It's not necessarily a subby thing: I like the intimacy of having parts of my partner inside my own body, as well as the sexual pleasure it gives. And I like it because you have to be slow and careful and vulnerable and trusting. None of my partners have to "trick" me to let them put their fingers or penises or dildos inside me (heck, it's a regular part of masturbation too).

The real reason I'm replying, though, as well as answering your question, is to tell a story. I and my (female) partner went into a sex shop we'd never visited before in order to buy some lube, and we asked the assistant for advice about buying some which was good for anal use. He was practically falling over himself with delight. He said that women come into the shop ALL THE TIME asking for anal lube with numbing agents because their boyfriends/husbands keep asking them for anal and they think they're required to "let" them; I was profoundly shocked by this, although not really surprised. The assistant kept telling us how delighted he was to sell anal lube to people who actually wanted to enjoy anal. But in the end we didn't tell him that it was for *her* to use on *me*. :)

I'm a woman who actually likes anal, but I just can't stand that article. Clue-stick: anal is not supposed to hurt! Not the first time, and not anytime after that. Either buy lube or don't do it. It's also not "degrading" and shouldn't make someone vulnerable. AAGGGGHH!!! These people just shouldn't be having sex.

Jesus Christ! I haven't read the article yet, but I'm blown away by the notion that it's okay to demand anal sex, let alone any sex. That is completely and utterly alien to me and my other guy friends. I won't deny that there's something appealing about anal sex to me, but degradation is not part of it. I don't think any guy should mention anal sex to his girlfriend without first trying it out on his own butthole. That's what I did, and I found it to actually be kind of enjoyable. But it's not for everyone! I better read that article now. I hope it doesn't depress me.

Haha, good write temporary. But it's sad about those women who think they have to "let" their husband/bf do that to them.

Um...hello? I have a vagina? If you want it up the ass, go find a guy.

I'm reminded why I hate most men's magazines - they seem to be written for nitwits who get off on hurting and abusing women. I mean, those interviews? It depresses me that they can find people like that and represent it as an okay, mainstream view.

I am getting sick of hearing about women who sacrifice their dignity, physical pleasure and pretty much everything else in order to please their men. What are you getting out of it, ladies? If your man "demands" anal sex (or any sex), he doesn't love you. In fact, he thinks you're a disgusting pig when you give it up.
Get a fucking clue.

um, lots of these fellas are lying for the sake of the author (this happens all the time in such "lad mag" articles). in the last several years before my current relationship, let's just say I've dated a lot. guys aren't "demanding" anything (let alone anal sex), and if anything they're requesting penetration of their own anuses.

Nothing new to add really. Just my disgust at the article. The whole control thing struck a chord with me to. One of my close friends was in an awful relationship in which he repeatedly raped and sodomized her. How the hell could anyone have the audacity to print this garbage?? I think that is what disgusts me even more.

Was anybody besides me just incredibly disturbed by the language they were using to describe anal sex? All the "cutesy" terms and euphamisms?

Not to mention that most of those men shouldn't be allowed near a naked woman...ever.

ekf - Perfectly put. I second that motion...send it along.

Jesus Christ! I haven't read the article yet, but I'm blown away by the notion that it's okay to demand anal sex, let alone any sex. That is completely and utterly alien to me and my other guy friends. I won't deny that there's something appealing about anal sex to me, but degradation is not part of it. I don't think any guy should mention anal sex to his girlfriend without first trying it out on his own butthole. That's what I did, and I found it to actually be kind of enjoyable. But it's not for everyone! I better read that article now. I hope it doesn't depress me.

Jane Minty, the comment following yours pretty much renders your assertion (guys aren't "demanding" anything) untrue. Maybe the guys you've dated aren't demanding anything, but just glancing at rape/assault statistics will tell you that many men are demanding and just plain taking women's bodies.

Temp 125:
I used to work at a sex shop in the West Village, and I cannot tell you the amount of men/women I talked to with the same request in the same scenario (he wants it, she doesn't - he's looking for a way to do it, she's looking for a way to get it to not hurt so much so she can do it and get him off her back). It was astounding, disgusting, terrifying, and disappointing. I tried to talk EVERYBODY out of buying AnalEaze - "it's not supposed to hurt - if you have to numb it, you shouldn't be doing it." I actually had a 10 minute conversation with a guy who was trying to pry out of me the "secret" to getting his GF to "consent" (I use the word loosely).

Him: My girlfriend doesn't want to let me go up her ass.
Me: Well then don't.
Him: But why doesn't she want to?
Me: It doesn't matter - she doesn't want to. She doesn't owe you an explanation.
Him: Is it because she's Asian?
Me: Whaaaaaa?
Him: So what if I just kind of shove it in there?
Me: That would be rape.
Him: (Eyes growing HUGE) Really?
Me: Yes.
Him: Oh. So what if I do it anyway?
Me: Please leave my store.

And then I cried.

Ekf: I don't know if you were replying to me, but in any case, I wanted to clarify. I wasn't, in any way, condoning anything about the article or trying to imply that, because some women enjoy anal, what these men are doing or saying isn't horribly, horribly wrong. I was trying to open discussion about why this topic is continuously seen as something men are supposed to talk women into, and women are supposed to refuse. This attitude is even echoed in these comments.

I was not, I repeat, NOT defending the article. At all. Whatsoever. It was insanely offensive and people have every right to hate on it - I'm just also surprised with the amount of disgust that anal sex itself (not the attitudes about it in the article) is being treated here - I'm actually offended myself by some of the comments on this page.

I'm also sad they included a Tristian T. quote, since she rules.

TheSoyMilkConspiracy: Jesus. I weep for the world. :/

I have had my brush with anal sex, in the same way I imagine alot of sexually unsure, pressured girls have had a brush with anal sex.

We're going it at it, sort of, and he misses. He misses, but because I felt sexually insecure, I did not protest. He keeps going. I start faking some cheerleading. He realizes what he's doing. He keeps going. I realize he's gonna keep going. My ass hurts. I don't know what to do. It's the age-old 'I-started-it-now-I-have-to-finish-it' situation that kind of starts to feel like rape. He finishes. I need to wash.

'Til this day, Chris is unsure if I liked it or not, and will try and tease me about it. I didn't like it, and I don't care what it may cost me, but I don't do shit I don't like doing. Mostly, because I know a man would never do it for me.

Thesoymilkconspiracy: yep. Anybody putting a hate on anal sex *per se* here, or treating it like refusing should me "natural" or intuitive should take it over to the "judgment" thread.

“I was trying to open discussion about why this topic is continuously seen as something men are supposed to talk women into, and women are supposed to refuse.�
Because it hurts. I know there are people who enjoy it and say it’s not supposed to hurt, but I have tried it a few times - I wasn’t pressured into it - and no amount of foreplay or lube or gentleness would make it not hurt. And it’s not b/c I just don’t like anything in that orifice, I do, just not anything as thick as a dick.

To clarify, in case I'm offending anyone with my previous comment: I have nothing against anal sex or the men and women who enjoy it. However, it's something I've never wanted to try personally and given the pain I've experienced when even fingers wandered back there, it's something I don't think I'll ever want to try. And I'm perfectly comfortable explaining that to any partner who asks, and I hope they will respect those boundaries. But each person is different and I think that's a wonderful thing.

And the pain thing does get to me a little. I think that if your partner really cares about you and your well being, they'll read some literature and take the time to ask questions and educate themselves to make sure that everything is safe, painless and enjoyable for both parties.

Correction, Sojourner: It hurts for *you.* That doesn't explain why women in general are supposed to refuse at all. I think the simultaneous expectation of refusing and giving to someone "special" is related to sex in general, and the cultural pressures we have as women.

"Sex is not even about people sharing pleasure to men; it's about domination and humiliation."

Thank you, porn!

That doesn't explain why women in general are supposed to refuse at all.

Because it makes us disgusting pigs, remember?

Hmm. I was under the impression that it is not okay to demand any sort of sex, ever.

Prediction: Based on wind speed, rates of rebuttal, and otherwise slowness of the news day, I'm calling it... 389 comments before it gets shut down.

Sage: A-motherfucking-fuck-me-in-the-ass-MEN.

Sojourner: Did it ever occur to you that, quite possibly, your body is not the same as everybody else's? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, just because something hurts you doesn't necessarily mean that it hurts all women? Nobody is saying you should do it if you know you don't like it - please, for the love of God, stay far, far away from it if this is the case!

You missed the point and your answer had nothing to do with my quote that you used. I wasn't saying that because some women like it, everybody should (fucking obviously). I was saying that it is unfortunate that something that I enjoy doing consensually with a very, VERY respectful, understanding, self-declared feminist man, is often misinterpreted as being "unnatural" or me taking enjoyment in my own oppression - on a Feministing message board, no less! And I was trying to examine why this is. "Because it hurts me" is not a legitimate answer to the bigger picture.

When is it ever OK to DEMAND sex of any kind?

I think if anyone demanded anything from me I'd be out the door so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. (Though chances are it'd be me that hit him)

I'm pretty sure if anyone felt they were allowed to DEMAND any kind of sex from me, I'd be out the door with his severed nutsack in my hand.

SarahMC: it makes you a "disgusting pig" to that vile piece of shit in the article, who is not, in anyway, a man I (or probably any of us) would ever speak to, let alone fuck.

It does not make you a "disgusting pig" to everybody, and I know you're smart enough to realize that.

I don't really know what you were trying to say in that comment, but if I misinterpreted it, I apologize.

For the love of Christ, people. Ass fucking is only about dominance and humiliation if somebody involved makes it that way (as the men in this article CLEARLY have - but they're not everybody). It's all contextual. Remember that there are people out there who think ALL forms of intercourse are oppressive and dominating, and trust me, you'd take offense if someone told you that fucking your boyfriend vaginally (I've never heard anybody argue that lesbian sex was oppressive, but maybe they have) was unnatural and that you were being victimized.

Oops, sorry about the double post. I thought the first one didn't go through so I wrote the second one.

Holy motherfucking shit.

FUCK but I wish I were lesbian. God-fucking-dammit.

The men quoted in that "article" deserve to die horrible, lonely deaths. ANYONE who would expect a "lover" to subject herself to something she had no interest in, only for HIS individual pleasure, deserves a horrible, lonely death. These sound like the kind of guys who would beat a woman if she tried sticking a finger up his ass to enhance his pleasure. Which makes it like doubly or triply fucking ridiculous, because physiologically speaking it can actually DO something for men, whereas my understanding is that, again, just physiologically speaking, there's nothing particularly special about it for women (not that there's anything AT ALL wrong about a woman finding pleasure ANY DAMN WAY that suits her, and not that women CAN'T get pleasure from this, just, scientifically speaking, men are biologically WIRED to have more of a pleasurable response to this).

I hate those men. Hate them hate them hate them. I once had a boyfriend pressure me for anal sex (among other horrifically offensive things he did and said). Needless to say, his ass got DUMPED.

Par for the course for DetailsFHMStuffMaxim (they're basically all the same magazine); this is a good example as to why I never liked it. I will admit to reading Esquire, which does have its flaws, but would never print something like this (unless I missed it somewhere).

I'll add my voice to the chorus of "it's not okay to demand sex." It just isn't.

When my bf made a hint that he wanted to try it, I said "Ok then, lets go find you a big fat dildo to put up your ass so that you will know what it feels like before you even attempt to do that with me." I figure that if my vagina isn't good enough, my ass surely isn't either.

Thing is, LindsayPW, there are women who like anal sex, and your boyfriend wouldn't know if you did or not unless you volunteered that information or he asked you. That's the kind of communication that I think we ought to encourage. If he were to show disrespect for your refusal, then you'd certainly have a right to be upset about that.

I could be wrong, Thesoymilkconspiracy, but I took SarahMC's comment to mean, "because we think we're fucking pigs just like they WANT us to think when we refuse something we might otherwise like..." In other words, she's saying be careful why you don't want it, it could be you're thinking the same demeaning thing about your own body they actually WANT you to believe...

But correct me if I'm wrong, SarahMC.

“I was trying to open discussion about why this topic is continuously seen as something men are supposed to talk women into, and women are supposed to refuse.�

I think it's just an extension of the framing of sexual activity as a tug-of-war between the sexes, wherein the man tries to push the envelope further and further and the girl resists him. Back in the day, getting a girl to go "all the way" was the big challenge--now, more women are willing to have casual vaginal sex, but still express reluctance about anal sex, so it's become the new (finish) line in the sand that guys are determined to cross, so they can declare themselves the winners of the sexual conquest Olympics. It's also seen as "naughtier" and "dirtier" which of course also makes it more appealing--it's the forbidden fruit no one admits to wanting, but everyone's dying to taste. I suspect porn has a lot to do with it, too, but I think porn just reinforces--reinforces very strongly, via the positive reinforcement of orgasm--bad attitudes about sex we already had, like the notion that degrading your partner is "sexy."

In any case, I've known a woman who was anally raped and two that enjoyed receiving anal sex. Of the latter two, one was dating a guy who didn't like anal sex particularly but did it because she liked it. I myself decided the answer would be "hell, no" to anyone I didn't trust to a ridiculously high degree after reading that if done improperly, it can cause permanent damage of the adult-diapers-for-life variety--that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

I think the problem isn't anal sex per se but the attitude that every man should want it and every woman should be willing to provide it for him. That I take issue with. And that picture is just...wrong.

just physiologically speaking, there's nothing particularly special about it for women (not that there's anything AT ALL wrong about a woman finding pleasure ANY DAMN WAY that suits her, and not that women CAN'T get pleasure from this, just, scientifically speaking, men are biologically WIRED to have more of a pleasurable response to this).

How so, The Law Fairy? I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just that I've never heard this argument, and I do get a little nervous when I see phrases like "biologically wired".

My SO just said something so off the wall with respect to this article that I haven't decided whether to hit him or kiss him. Your help would be appreciated. :)

"The problem with these men is that their egos are f*cked. It is not manly* to force another person to do something. We can all force people who physically less strong than us or less well armed. That makes you a bully and bullies are not manly. Manly is pleasuring a woman who's judgment you respect so much that she is a smoking pile of sated rubble. Manly is being so good in bed that the woman you admire is excited to try new things because all things with you are orgasmic. Now that's manly."

See...there were nice compliments intertwined with that overly-masculine egoistic diatribe.

*He says manly in his funny this is a stupid word voice.

You have interpreted my comment correctly, Sage.

Kristen, his sentiments were in the right place, even if his words weren't. :)

I think the problem isn't anal sex per se but the attitude that every man should want it and every woman should be willing to provide it for him. That I take issue with. And that picture is just...wrong.

Nail, meet hammer.

Kristen -

Your SO's attitude is better than some, but it still comes to sex being about proving his manliness.

"I turned her into a smoking pile of sated rubble" is better than "I blasted her in the ass", but it's still about his own achievement, not about "her".

Linnaeus all my bf needs to know whether or not I like it is when I say NO. I don't owe my bf any other explanation. And I certainly don't owe him a try with it. Especially if he isn't going to realize, oh this shit hurts, before he even attempts to do it with me. I don't have to do a damn fucking thing, all I have to do is say yes or no and that's good enough. That's why I say NO.

Linnaeus all my bf needs to know whether or not I like it is when I say NO. I don't owe my bf any other explanation. And I certainly don't owe him a try with it. Especially if he isn't going to realize, oh this shit hurts, before he even attempts to do it with me. I don't have to do a damn fucking thing, all I have to do is say yes or no and that's good enough. That's why I say NO. Oh, and the fact that he's figuratively on my ass about it all the time is enough to get my blood boiling. I mean, how many fucking times do I have to say no thanks before he fucking gets it.

"I turned her into a smoking pile of sated rubble" is better than "I blasted her in the ass", but it's still about his own achievement, not about "her".

Along with the idea that everyone must have an orgasm every single time for sex to be enjoyable.

Still, the idea that sex should be mutually pleasureable is definitely positive...

If the boy I was dating was so keen on having anal sex, I would tell him he should get a boyfriend.

but just glancing at rape/assault statistics will tell you that many men are demanding and just plain taking women's bodies.

Sarah, I wasn't referring to a rape scenario, but rather pressure in an otherwise consensual situation (which seems to be the theme of the article). To be honest though, it's hard to tell where consent ends and rape begins in this piece, since these personality types are so far from who I deal with.

I have no idea what the situation was involving the comment following mine, and I'm not making light of it. This does sound a little different than the scenarios in the article (which seem to focus more on casual dating). I just can't personally imagine staying in an abusive relationship. That's never been part of my personality.

I mean, of course it's wrong to force or demand anything on a partner - I think we can both agree on that. I think we also agree that certainly rape is a result in some situations.

What really sucks is that when it's a pressure issue, some girls feel the need to cave (heh) only for "his pleasure" (probably the kind of girl who also undergoes cosmetic vaginal surgery for "shame" issues). I can't feel sorry for that type of girl. I'll go to the ends of the earth to defend a rape victim, but I feel no sympathy for a girl who dates asshole fratty boys with these attitudes. Again, it's a social group I don't fully understand, so maybe the line of rape vs. consent works differently here. I definitely don't date Wall St./finance or "happy hour khaki" dudes, so I can't tell you what that side of the fence is like.

As far as anal sex itself...eh. Been there, and it didn't do much for me. The thought of that area acclimating itself to the size of my partner scares the shit out of me, pun intended.

Linnaeus all my bf needs to know whether or not I like it is when I say NO. I don't owe my bf any other explanation. And I certainly don't owe him a try with it. Especially if he isn't going to realize, oh this shit hurts, before he even attempts to do it with me. I don't have to do a damn fucking thing, all I have to do is say yes or no and that's good enough. That's why I say NO. Oh, and the fact that he's figuratively on my ass about it all the time is enough to get my blood boiling. I mean, how many fucking times do I have to say no thanks before he fucking gets it.

Oh, I totally agree, and I'm sorry if I implied otherwise. You don't owe him an explanation, and if he's still bothering you about it, then it's totally understandable you'd be annoyed (that's what I meant by not respecting your refusal).

All I was trying to say was that asking in the first place isn't a bad thing. Once you've said no, then it's settled.

Wow. I'm not even sure what the most disturbing part of this whole article is--the part where it's assumed it's okay to demand any kind of sex, the part where it is tacitly encouraged to rape drunk women. Everything about that article made me want to take a shower.

If the boy I was dating was so keen on having anal sex, I would tell him he should get a boyfriend.

Why a boyfriend and not just a girlfriend who enjoys anal sex? Assuming he wasn't gay and had mistaken you for a guy or something...

I have an almost similar tale like ikkin's.

When I was in college there was a guy I was trying desperately to keep, for no apparent reason other than he'd been my first relationship. In hindsight it wasn't anything more than a f*ckbuddy situation but I was too stupid to see that I wasn't really important to him.

Anyway, he'd been seeing this other girl (who he's now married to) and I was at his place hanging out and I wanted to have sex but he didn't want to have vaginal sex he wanted to have anal sex and that was all he was going to do. He described it as something he'd really wanted to do mostly because his other buddies had been engaging in anal sex and he felt left out. I figured if I did he then he'd actually like me or something (I was younger and stupider) so I agreed. I'd also been watching a lot of Queer as Folk so I used my curiosity of what it would feel like to justify the fact that I was compromising myself and my self esteem.

Even though we used lube it still hurt sort of and I found myself face down in the pillow not really participating. Mentally I went off somewhere else until he was finished. Afterwards we took a shower together, which I misread as something it wasn't, but for days after my ass hurt and while I joked about it and tried to play it off, to this day it's something I'm ashamed of myself for allowing to happen though I learned that no matter what I can't compromise who I am for a guy, it's totally not worth it.

If a guy ever asked for anal and persisted after I told him no that would be the deal breaker for me and I'm going to admit I wouldn't be nice and politically correct in telling him where he could stick it.

ikkin -

I'm sorry that happened to you. I can see how an experience like that would kill any possibility of ever enjoying anal sex before it even had a chance.

Your story seems to me like another example of just how important it is to teach kids about the importance of sexual communication, and being unafraid to say what they want. Lacking other information, your story sounds like it was all a terrible misunderstanding (your fear to tell him what was wrong, or that you wanted to stop, etc.).

Is this "Chris" the man that was involved?

On the main topic: ekf said it all, and the "tunnel" in that picture doesn't look like it's aimed at her anus.

ahh haha. i'm late to the party. everyone's pretty much said what needs saying, but i wanted to throw in my amusement--my fiance dislikes anal sex. it grosses him out in a big way. it was actually the first way we tried, because i'm a "good little christian girl" and was planning to stay a virgin until marraige (oops).

anyway, i actually enjoy anal--when it's done right.

but i'd like to point out that my enjoyment has no bearing on whether it's ok to demand anal sex.

Your SO's attitude is better than some, but it still comes to sex being about proving his manliness.

I see your point. But I disagree with it. IMO (which admittedly may be flawed) part of the gratification of sex is ego driven. We all want to be desirable, right? The difference is that those men equate getting someone to do something as making them desirable.

But then I also take great personal pride in the fact that I can turn him into a lethargic mass of jello.

Oh. my. god. That photo is so awful all I can do is laugh helplessly. And anyone who "demands" sex, anal or otherwise, on the first or the 20th date or the 50th wedding anniversary, needs to be punched in the junk and have his phone number lost, STAT.

Oh, and the fact that he's figuratively on my ass about it all the time is enough to get my blood boiling. I mean, how many fucking times do I have to say no thanks before he fucking gets it.

LindsayPW: Dump him.

SarahMC: My bad. You and Sage, thanks for the clarification.

And for reals, everybody. I could really do without the homophobic and ridiculous assertions that anal sex is something that is reserved specifically for gay men. Come on now.

Yes, I am really getting annoyed at all these people acting like anal sex is this big terrible thing. No, it is a morally neutral act. The problem is demanding. Does anyone have the right to demand sex? NO. Does anyone have the right to ask? Sure, feel free.

I am also a little sick of all these "I wish I was a lesbian" comments. That's bullshit, and clearly coming from privilaged straight women who don't know what its like to have your dating pool being something like 2.5% of the population, and don't fear hitting on strangers because they might die. And let's stop pretending that partner violence or emotional manipulation is strightly a male-female relationship thing.

I also really hate all these SadeeJane- "If the boy I was dating was so keen on having anal sex, I would tell him he should get a boyfriend." Its fine if you want to refuse to have anal sex, but let's stop pretending that anal sex is a merely gay act, or that invoking gay-panic to avoid it. That's obnoxious and hardly enlightened.

I can't feel sorry for that type of girl. I'll go to the ends of the earth to defend a rape victim, but I feel no sympathy for a girl who dates asshole fratty boys with these attitudes.

Ditto, ditto, ditto

JaneMinty and SarahMC:

Because I'm sure neither of you have ever made poor decisions about what guys to date, or discovered unpleasant things about a guy's attitude after you've started dating him (maybe after you've even started to or have fallen in love).

It must be nice to have such impeccable taste in men and such a strong ability to always assert your wants in everything that you never find yourself in an unpleasant situation. If only you could teach such skills to the rest of us mortals.

SMC, I'll share my experiences, which I've been open about for years here. I'm a het male, I've been both the penetrating and the enveloping partner in anal intercourse for years with my spouse, and I've played with my own ass since my teens.

I love the intimacy. Because the anus is tighter and more sensitive, getting in comfortably has (for both of us) always been a slow, communicative process. We can't do it on autopilot; we have to read our partner's reactions. We do a lot of BDSM, so sometimes we're looking to cause just the right amount of pain, and sometimes we're looking for a painless, comfortable fuck. Either way, we have to listen to and watch the enveloping partner to get it right, which gives us a powerful sense of being together.

The first time we had anal with my spouse as the enveloping partner, it took maybe seven minutes to get all the way in. Think about that: that's very, very gradual. And we used a ton of KY (I prefer KY to thinner water-based or silicone lubes, YMMV). We talked a lot about how it felt, when it was okay to move and when she wanted me to hold still. We both liked it a lot. That was years ago; the other day, she climbed on top of me and, on her own initiative, put my cock in her ass.

We have maybe a dozen dildos and plugs of various kinds. I certainly like prostate stimulation, but I also love the feeling of being full. (As an aside, I love inflatable dildos; they go in modestly sized and pump up once inside the sphincters, which is a much different sensation than inserting something really big.) For really comfortable assfucking, we have a very smooth-sided silicone dildo. It goes in easily and the strokes are long, smooth and relaxing. I can't actually come from anal, but I feel close often.

When I'm feeling submissive, sometimes we play with much larger objects, which require a lot of warmup (even for a big slut like me) and hurt quite a bit -- but that's S/M. I'm working towards fisting. (For the insiders like you, SMC, my biggest toy is the Vixen Creations Randy.)

People's anatomy varies widely. Some folks can't take more than a finger comfortably, while others can take a fist. I don't encourage people who dislike anal penetration to do it. It is a sexual activity that (like anything else) doesn't work well for some folks. And I really resent that the culture has made it (like everything else) another property transaction where men encourage women to "give it up" or trade it.

But I also dislike and try to work against the idea that I see in some places that it is inherently unpleasant and exists only so men can vent their misogyny. Among other things, that's an insult to virtually all gay men.

So, if you're not interested, just say "no." Anybody who doesn't respect that, best to weed them out early. For those that are interested:
1) There is no such thing as too much lube.
2) There is no such thing as too much warm-up. In fact, putting a small plug in place and doing something else for twenty minutes or so works wonders.
3) There is no such thing as going too slow. Slow insertion allows better communication, and lets the enveloping partner get used to how hir body is feeling.
4) Relaxing those muscles is a skill: what takes incredible concentration the first time comes much easier after enough practice.
5) Communication, communication, communication. Not just "okay" and "ow." Share information, like "it's a little dry at my tailbone," "it's very full but it doesn't hurt," "hold still and let me relax for a minute," "the head is all the way in, that's the widest part."

Tristan Taormino offers workshops, too -- Anal Play 101 and 201. I said to someone recently that she should offer a 501 graduate level course, because she has stuff to teach even those of us that are past the 201 level. When I took 201, she was teaching it as Babeland, though I have not checked to see if she still runs them there.

To answer the author's question... um, no. You don't have the right to demand anything sexual from anyone at any time. You are entitled to ask. If you don't get what you ask for you are entitled to be bummed and not date that person anymore, but that's it.

JenLovesPonies: you rock. just saying.

“It hurts for *you.* That doesn't explain why women in general are supposed to refuse at all. I think the simultaneous expectation of refusing and giving to someone "special" is related to sex in general, and the cultural pressures we have as women.�

And

“Sojourner: Did it ever occur to you that, quite possibly, your body is not the same as everybody else's? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, just because something hurts you doesn't necessarily mean that it hurts all women?�

Sage, SoyMilk,

I did not claim that it hurts for everyone, or didn’t intend to, maybe that came across wrong ( Did you read the “I know some people enjoy it� part, Soymilk?) I actually wanted to add in there that perhaps I am too tight. What I meant was, I think it hurts for a lot of women. That is, yes I know of some people who say they enjoy it, but I know many more who say it hurts. Therefore it’s reasonable that a lot of women would refuse it, even if it wasn’t for the belief that “only dirty sluts have anal�. And for more clarification: That is not actually my own belief. Ok. I hope that hopefully cleared things up!

I didn't mean to imply that I don't have sympathy for women who've been pressured into sex. Not at all. I regret including that part in my quote from Jane Minty.
I was more siding with her assessment of Wall St./finance or "happy hour khaki" dudes, as she put it.
While I do feel for women who've been surprised by a dick up the ass, I truly DON'T feel sorry for women who accompany their jerky boyfriends to sex shops in order to get numbing lube for anal sex they'd rather not have. I suppose it sounds like victim-blaming, but at a certain point women have to wake up and smell the coffee. NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO YOUR BODY.

UltraMagnus hits it pretty well. Sometimes, girls do things for stupid, awful reasons. And this is because we don't teach our children to communicate, Seraph.

And Chris is the boy who done the deed. Things change, Thank God.

And, for the record, I think that if a woman wants to close herself off to the idea of anal sex, if she doesn't think she's comfortable with it, I don't think she should even have to try. So, yeah, I don't feel like I'm missing out on much. That's just me talkin', though.

Also, a note on women fucking men: most het women I have known have zero experience fucking someone with a strap-on. Depending on anatomy, some women can come from the way the dildo base hits the genitals.

Thomas: Is there any reason why that entire...thing was directed at me? Did you actually READ my comments? I don't recall asking for an anal sex lesson (I'm versed, thankyouverymuch). Needless to say, I'm a little...confused.

It must be nice to have such impeccable taste in men and such a strong ability to always assert your wants in everything that you never find yourself in an unpleasant situation. If only you could teach such skills to the rest of us mortals.

Um, no one is claiming such a thing. I've dated people with major issues, but the minute he starts with any abuse, I'm out of there.

As far as people getting upset over SadeeJane's comment on telling him to get a boyfriend, consider for a moment it has nothing to do with making generalizations on who does or does not enjoy anal sex. It's very likely the type of guy who would demand anal sex would also be threatened/upset by that kind of response solely because HE has unsavory associations with anal sex and gay men. Basically it's a funnier way of communicating, "what's good for the goose..." to someone who best understands asshole-ese.

Oh shit. I just realized that Thomas was probably talking to SarahMC. People often refer to me as SMC on this board (Soy Milk Conspiracy), and I gots all tangled up. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Somebody get me a fucking cup of coffee, stat!