well, at least it's a step in the right direction... maybe in a few years some more of his views will change. who knows!

The phrase "get off easy" is so revealing. Despite all the allegedly pro-life posturing, it's all about punishing women for out-of-wedlock sex, isn't it? There's an implicit acknowledgement that forcing motherhood on a woman is punishment.

I would actually say it's about punishing women for having sex, period, since married women have abortions, too, and plenty of single pregnant women choose to have their babies. Nothing disgusts these people more than women getting any pleasure at all out of their bodies -- if they could get away with it, they'd probably also legalize FGM.

Ugh, Romney disgusts me.
He successfully ran for governor of MA and then spent his term traveling to other states bad-mouthing the "weirdos" in MA. Why did he even want to be governor?
Maybe the Dems need to do some Swift-boating.

Here's a politician I can support, Keith Ellison D-MN.

In the 'reproductive rights and choice' section filed under "On the Issues" on his website, he states:

"My beliefs on this issue are rooted in my respect for fundamental rights. People must be free to make decisions affecting their own lives. How can a legislator or judge make a basic family decision such as whether or not a woman should have a child? As a father of four, my wife and I would never abdicate our right to make family decisions to a government official, and I understand that she would have the final say. I recognize the sanctity of human life, including the lives of the unborn. However, I believe more firmly that the moral, religious, cultural, and medical decision of whether or not to complete a pregnancy must be left to the woman, and the people who she wishes to consult."

Ellison supports the immediate withdrawal from Iraq, national healthcare, and GLBT rights.

Oh, and did I also mention that Mr. Ellison is a Muslim?

http://www.keithellison.org/issues-choice.htm

What a humanitarian. He should be on the Supreme Court or something!

If ever there was a politician flip-flopping on issues to try and gain votes, Romney is it. Has anyone with presidential aspirations waffled so much?

Let's not forget the Mormon thing, a religion which on a scale of "How big of an idiot do you have to be to believe this shit?" is only slightly behind Scientology.

Another horrible thing about Romney: he's cruel to animals. He strapped his dog in it's crate to the roof of his car for 12 hours without a bathroom break. When the dog crapped all over the car he just pulled over, hosed it off, and kept going so the dog was not only scared but cold as well.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1638065,00.html

Oh my god, Lisa. I read that last week. His treatment of his own dog is reason enough for me not to vote for him.

There are advantages to remaining pro-life to the death. or should that be pro-death? anyway how about pro-after-life??!!

warning: do not open this link if there are breakable objects in the vicinity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3718475.stm

Sorry - Liza not Lisa.

I don't understand why that mealy, doughboy pope doesn't give up his own life and let some starving child in Africa consume his share of food.

OK, so I'm a little over-the-edge, but man, that shit pisses me off.

This matches the position of the Mormon Church, which teaches that abortion is immoral unless a woman's life is in danger. He used to take positions that differed from the Mormon Church's theology but maybe that's changing.

Jeremy, while it's absolutely valid to criticize people who abuse religion as a means to get their own agenda into practice, we need to be careful not to get downright mean-spirited about people's fundamental beliefs.

I personally don't "get" Mormonism either, it seems a little wierd to me -- but I'm sure my religion seems wierd to other people as well. I will say this for Mormons: as far as contemporary religions go, Mormons are one of the LEAST in-your-face-and-down-your-throat religious groups we have around. And UNIFORMLY I find that Mormons are among the KINDEST and most GENEROUS people that I meet. Frankly, I only wish I could say as much about my own, far more mainstream, religious brethren (Episcopalians).

Equating the entire Mormon church with a religion well known for its excessively rude celebrity proselytes, simply because one of its members is a total anti-woman jackass of a politician, is a bit unfair.

I am in love with Keith Ellison, Dee! I saw him speak in St. Paul on MLK Day, and he absolutely blew me away...His speech was almost an hour long, and despite the fact that I have a tendency to nod off during speeches that last more than fifteen minutes, I was enthralled the whole time. He also said that he thinks women should be able to lead mosques -- hell yeah!!!

TLF, although I agree with you about the need to avoid being mean-spirited, your characterization of Mormonism as one of the least-in-your-face-and-down your-throat religious groups around seems a little off. Maybe they don't do heavy proselytizing in the US, but aren't members required to spend two years overseas on a mission? And isn't that mission mostly about converting people abroad? My knowledge of Mormonism is limited, so I could be wrong. But that's always been my impression. If they seem less in your face when it comes to US politics- compared to say, Southern Baptists- I imagine it is mostly because they have much smaller numbers and less political clout. And cause they focus their proselytizing overseas.

So, I have to out myself - I was raised mormon, I'm not a member of the church. I have two sisters on missions, a sister who recently returned and a brother who went back in 96-98. If you want to learn about the mormon church - they have a website www.lds.org . There is a large missionary effort in general. About half of the church membership is overseas and there is a large international effort, but not when compared to other religions that do almost all of their missionary work overseas and predominantly in developing countries. The mormon religion has a fairly compassionate stance on abortion (read "the miracle of forgiveness" by Hinkley - I had to read it as punishment when I was 15). Basically, in a religion where the family is central, large families are the norm, and premarital sex is a huge no-no why would members of the church need abortions?
My mom had mentioned a couple of things about women in the church who'd had them when they threatened their health, she and my dad had talked about it when they were pregnant with my sister and it looked like there might be some serious birth defects and my parents are RELIGIOUS - they wouldn't do something contrary to the religion. Mitt Romney is extreme and echoes the philosophies of the far right, not mormonism.

"Basically, in a religion where the family is central, large families are the norm, and premarital sex is a huge no-no why would members of the church need abortions?"

What if a couple of members of the church who are married to each other and who are still fertile have 8 children, are too exhausted to raise a 9th child and don't want to freak out their children by giving up any for adoption or foster care, and then the husband's condom breaks?

Cruella wrote:

There are advantages to remaining pro-life to the death. or should that be pro-death? anyway how about pro-after-life??!!

warning: do not open this link if there are breakable objects in the vicinity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3718475.stm

"Gianna Beretta Molla died of cancer in 1962 after refusing life-saving treatment that would have involved the termination of her pregnancy."

I see a lot wrong with this. Pro-choicers still respect this woman's right to CHOOSE what she did. Many people forget that. I personally am a little leery to post this but don't you think it's a little off that this woman would choose to have her mother lose a daughter, have her daughter lose a mother, have her husband lose a wife, have her siblings lose their sister..even though she could probably have another baby? Without the mother, there is no baby. Mothers' lives come first.

There's several cynical things that can be said about Mormonism. To say the least, it takes a level of trust in other human beings that I cannot fathom.

On to Molla. I don't understand how she's sainted. Isn't suicide a sin (according to the church)?

Jeremy, while it's absolutely valid to criticize people who abuse religion as a means to get their own agenda into practice, we need to be careful not to get downright mean-spirited about people's fundamental beliefs.

Why? Why is it wrong to point out that a belief is absurd just because the delusion is deeply felt? Some of the worst movements in history have come to power specifically because people were reluctant to criticise patent absurdities conveniently cloaked in religious and nationalistic piety.

"Here's a politician I can support, Keith Ellison D-MN.

In the 'reproductive rights and choice' section filed under "On the Issues" on his website, he states:

"My beliefs on this issue are rooted in my respect for fundamental rights. People must be free to make decisions affecting their own lives. How can a legislator or judge make a basic family decision such as whether or not a woman should have a child? As a father of four, my wife and I would never abdicate our right to make family decisions to a government official, and I understand that she would have the final say. I recognize the sanctity of human life, including the lives of the unborn. However, I believe more firmly that the moral, religious, cultural, and medical decision of whether or not to complete a pregnancy must be left to the woman, and the people who she wishes to consult."

Ellison supports the immediate withdrawal from Iraq, national healthcare, and GLBT rights.

Oh, and did I also mention that Mr. Ellison is a Muslim?"

I must agree that that man is awesome...wasn't he the one who everyone (right-wing Christian xenophobes) made a big stink about when he wanted to take his oath of office on a Koran rather than a Bible? I think that was when I decided that all politicians should just swear on the Constitution, but yeah, now I like Ellison even more.

Oh Lee,
Thank you for enlightening us with your benevolent wisdom.
Please continue to shine the torch of intellect into the dark recesses of our ignorance.
You are all that is reasonable, wise and, if I may say so, unbelievably good-looking.

Never leave us, Lee, without you we are nothing.

"We wouldn't have to import illegal and legal immigrants to cure our labour shortage if those 42+mln children had not been aborted."

Haha. This statement always cracks me up. So, we wouldn't have to enslave all those immigrant workers if only we could enslave all the unaborted children!

Also, if life allegedly begins at conception, should we abolish all fertility clinics? After all, they are "murdering" all those fertilized embryos that get thrown out. I'm willing to bet that more than one anti-choicer has been to a fertility clinic.