Ok, I can see not wanting to use the word 'vagina' in a commercial, but there are much better was to say it versus 'down there'.

How about 'feminine itching'? And who the hell lets an infection get so bad everyone can smell it?!?!

Ok, well sometimes it can feel like a porcupine is down there, but that just means I haven't shaved. I'm not so much offended by the animal imagery, because at least it's not as tacky as a diagram, and But srsly, there are better words than "down there." It's a vagina. Vagina vagina. The tampon commercials call it a period, not "that time of the month." Why can't vagisil use the root word of their product name?

Imagine a male equivalent for jock itch. Haha. "Down there." BALLS.

If you honestly feel THAT BAD and stank like a Skunk, you don't need Vagisil, you need to see a GYN.

I saw this commercial & it made me laugh for all the wrong reasons. It reminded me of the episode of Family Guy when Lois is reminiscing about Brian's favorite commercial--a Vagisil-like ad.

I am allergic to Vagisil. That is not a cool thing to find out.

Sounds pretty damn nasty all right.

When it's itching "down there," I don't really care what it smells like, cause it's fucking itching in my vagina. Is there anything worse than an itchy vagina? Seriously, it sucks, and if anybody else thinks it smells bad, maybe they should try having an itchy vagina and see how much they care then. (An itchy anus isn't much fun either, and never ever Google that shit. You see that one of the possible causes is a worm. Bad dreams for weeks.)

And word to Taisa-Marie. You can go to a doctor, or just get some Monistat and fix that shit these days. I don't think Vagisil would fix it anyway.

How about 'feminine itching'? And who the hell lets an infection get so bad everyone can smell it?!?!

"Feminine" has to be my least favourite euphemism for "vaginal". No contest. Bar none. Yuck.

And why is it that we're the only ones who have the dubious honour of our genital issues being dripped and splattered amongst the toothpaste ads? The only commercials they have about guys' penises are about getting laid. How about some ads for crotch rot remedies or scrotal itching?

Hell, I'd almost pay for a commercial set in a sports bar or lockerroom someplace with a couple of guys sitting around talking about how they suffer from "gentlemanly itching and odour."

GUY 1: Hey, guys, this is kinda embarrassing, but have you ever had a problem with...

GUY 2 (interrupts): Ball stank? Dude, we know. We could smell you from across the gym.

GUY 3 (faces the camera, smiling vacantly, the consummate product placement drone): Hey, lay off him. A few months ago, I, too, had problems with that down there, until I found Scrotasil. Other products for gentlemanly stench take up to 36 hours to work, but new Scrotasil got me sorted within one hour of applying it!

GUY 1: Guess I'm gonna have to go get some Scrotasil, then!

And they all share a manly laugh.

As long as we have to put up with this commercial crap in the middle of our programming, why not make sure everyone is equally disgusted and uncomfortable?

Thanks Stacy :)

And just another thought, if it is that bad that you relate the smell to that of a skunk and fear other people smelling it, you've really let it go so long you need to see a doctor, not an over-the-counter cure-all.

Still, 'down there' can mean anything... all those metaphors could also be used to describe athletes foot!

*dies*

Thank you Elise, that was GREAT! Seriously :)

I know 'feminine ithching' isn't the best, but it sure is more specific than 'down there'. I don't think they are going to start using 'vagina' in their commercials though.

Although thinking about it, doesn't KY use the phrase 'vaginal dryness' in their commercials?

Elise, you have just totally made my day!

You don't even deserve to have "vag" in your name

LOLz.

No luck searching YouTube. I guess 13 year old boys don't tend to upload that sort of thing.
BTW, I'd read that a peeled garlic clove can cure a yeast infection better than pretty much anything you can find OTC. I tried it last time I had one and it worked. You insert it of course. Wash it first.
It'll get your "down there" pretty stinky but who the hell cares as long as it helps you feel better.
And more on the "down there" infantilization issue: you ever see those "male enhancement" commercials that promise to increase "that certain part of the male body?" They're on cable, late-night, and they can't even say the word "penis." How goofy is that? Is the FCC to blame for making "vagina" and "penis" dirty words?

I was watching some DVDs of Grey's Anatomy earlier, and one of the doctors says "va-jay-jay" (although she is giving birth at the time). Do they ever say "vagina" on network TV?

I've seen this ad. I found it about as offensive as that "upgrade" tampon ad where the woman upgrades her boyfriend for someone better groomed and more stylish with a bigger bouquet of flowers.

I feel rather silly asking this, but how do you get the garlic out, happy_bunny? I don't think I'd be able to do it, and then I'd have to get someone else to reach up in there and dig around for it. Would it work as well if I made a tiny mesh vagina-sized garlic bag with a little string like on a tampon? Luckily, I've never had a yeast infection, and hopefully, I remain fortunate, but I'm pretty young.

I've heard of the garlic thing too, my doctor suggested it after I had kidney stones and a three month long kidney infection. Three months of antibiotics makes yeast grow in monster overtime. I told her I'd just keep drinking the liquid acidophilus which was doing the job (just tasted like sour yogurt, bleh).

*An itchy anus isn't much fun either, and never ever Google that shit. You see that one of the possible causes is a worm. Bad dreams for weeks.
I saw that on Oprah when she had that creepy doctor that's not Phil on. What's horrible is the way to find out if you have the worms--sticking a piece of tape over your anus & going to sleep. I couldn't sleep like that!
*Prairielily: I heard that you're supposed to stick the garlic in a piece of cheesecloth & tie a string to that.

Thank you, Moxie! That makes so much sense. (And does essentially make it a "tiny mesh vagina-sized garlic bag with a little string like on a tampon.")

Often when I'm walking around town, I can smell skunks. I realize now, from watching the Vagisil ad, that it was actually my own cootch being stinky.

You hear the word crevix said a lot on television, but hardly ever penis or vagina.

Yeah, if we smell bad down there, we usually just let it rot. I have never heard a guy say "Gee, does my groin stink?" Of course if a guy did say something about the smell of his groin every straight men would stay away from him for months.

personally I have never bought a "masculine" product, except anti-fugal ointments that were actually marketed for athletes food (we know it works for jock itch as well).

However very rarely will you hear a man use the word "penis." Instead they use crude words like Dick, and Cock, which are actually heard often on cable TV shows. Pussy the word appears to be gaining popularity on cable TV shows as well.

I'm looking forward to the day when they call Vagisil pussy cream in an advertisement. Which word do feminist prefer; pussy or vagina? When I talk always use the word pussy to describe the organ between a woman's leg, because it sounds less emotionally detached than vagina. But when I write I always use vagina, because it looks more polite on paper.

couldn't find the one you're talking about but check out this vagisil commercial.

prairielily: you are indeed very fortunate to have never had a yeast infection. You must eat a lot of yogurt or have never needed a lengthy course of antibiotics.
As far as getting the garlic out I reached right in there and scooped it out with my finger. I keep my nails short.
If you want to rig up something with a string I guess you could make a pouch out of sterile gauze. I'd chop or crush the garlic before putting it in the pouch though so the garlic juice can be released to work its magic.
Whatever you put in your vagina make sure it's clean and wash your hands first or you could make matters worse.

"Which word do feminist prefer; pussy or vagina? When I talk always use the word pussy to describe the organ between a woman's leg, because it sounds less emotionally detached than vagina"

i prefer "vagina" -- didn't know vaginas are organs. i want to donate mine when i die then

I never had a yeast infection before, but thenI got sick & was prescribed Amoxycillin. Between that & the horrible allergic reaction I had the second time he prescribed it, amoxycillin is the worst medication I've ever had.

Taisa-Marie: I think they used to say "vaginal dryness" but now for some reason they say "personal dryness." They don't want the kiddies asking what a "vagina" is, I guess.
libber: the vagina's an organ. It's an internal organ. Like the uterus. The whole kit-n-kaboodle between the legs is the vulva. People always get those confused.
I once heard a female comedian talk about a woman she knows getting a tattoo "on her vagina." Now that sounds serious.
Where did your "pussy or vagina" quote come from, by the way?

I haven't had a yeast infection in years, but I had them pretty frequently when I was a teenager. I guess the only worse thing than having an itchy vagina is being 14 and telling your mom that you have an itchy vagina.

I remember *hating* those adds that talked about "burning external itch" because when I had the yeast infection, I would have paid money for an *external* itch. At least you can scratch those.

No matter what, I never get yeast infections unless I'm being sexually active, at which point I get them constantly. I think it's some kind of reaction to latex, because when I switched to non-latex condoms, the trouble died down considerably. Not that anybody wanted to know that.

You hear the word crevix said a lot on television, but hardly ever penis or vagina.

I hate that! In the very first episode of Friends, Ross goes with his ex-wife to the OB-GYN, and starts playing with the speculum while the doctor's out of the room, at which point his ex cuts him dead by saying "The doctor uses that open my cervix."

Which is bullshit! You know what opens your cervix? Giving birth opens your cervix! A doctor opening your cervix without any painkiller would cause you agony! That's what the contractions are! A way of pulling open your cervix! The doctor uses a speculum to open up your vagina.

And then, of course, Ross is skeeved out and drops the speculum, which again makes no sense, as this is his ex-wife, and surely he has put things in her vagina during their time together.

Itazura, I personally prefer cunt, but it depends on the context, and I know many women disagree. I'll use cunt to meet vulva or vagina in an informal context. In a more formal context, I tend to use whatever anatomical word I mean, labia or vagina or vulva or whatever.

Never use Vagisil or Monistat or any of that shit. It's bad for you. Garlic works and so does plain yoghurt. Just lie down, raise your legs and spoon some into your vagina. Seriously. It works, plus the coolness of the yoghurt is quite refreshing for the itch and it also has the benefit of not smelling like garlic. Then just wear a pad for the dripping when you stand up, though not as much drips out as you might imagine.

Men often call their dicks their organs in the presence of women, so I thought organ was a good word to use to describe the vagina. Organ just means body part right?

OK, is it disrespectful to use the word pussy when describing a vagina in open speech?

How about the words cunt or beaver. Is it safe to say those are definitely disrespectful. I have always thought beaver sounded cute, but I have never said the word around women, till now.

Please know that I am not trying to be rude or sexist, I just really want to know, so that I won't offend anyone.

happy-bunny: "I once heard a female comedian talk about a woman she knows getting a tattoo "on her vagina." Now that sounds serious.
Where did your "pussy or vagina" quote come from, by the way?"

The qoute came from Itazura at 1:38 AM. That does sound serious.

A beaver is a rodent. My vagina is not.

Yoghurt never worked for me, and getting it in was a real pain in the...cunt, I guess. I'd read and been told about "spooning" it in, but unless you're very flexible and you have a vagina that gapes open, or some kind of funnel, or I guess a teeny tiny spoon, it's a lot easier said than done. I ended up with yoghurt all over the damn bed and all over my thighs and all over the area between my legs and all over my ass, and that was with my then-boyfriend helping (since it's sex that triggers my yeast infections, I do all that I can to make sure my partners fully understand how nasty the whole experience is; this is one of the many things that makes me a Bad Girlfriend).

Since when I get them, I get them bad, and they don't go away, I just go straight to my doctor, and she either gives me a prescription-strength version of the over the counter stuff, or, if there's a reason I don't want to put up with three to five nights of inserting cream, like, oh, I'm flying to London to visit a fellow in two days, she gives me Diflucan, which is a pink pill which usually takes care of everything in one shot. Be warned though. It is vitally important to take Diflucan on a full stomach. Nobody told me that the first time, and I spent a weekend sick in bed. No fun.

Sorry EG I didn't see your comment.

I never liked the word cunt, because I thought it sounded too much like cut, and I don't want to go near something that cuts. Cunt is more often used by men as a derogatory term for the entire woman. However beaver is only used to described the vagina, and most of the men I know love that term. Which is strange, because most of them say they want their women to shave down there (and whenever they watch porn, they will often complain if the women are not shaved).

I read that you can also insert yogurt using the little pushy-thing that comes with some yeast infection kits. Sorry, I can't think of a proper descriptive word.

Different things work for different people but I would definately suggest all women try home remedies first if only to save some cents.

EG: "I personally prefer cunt, but it depends on the context, and I know many women disagree. I'll use cunt to meet vulva or vagina in an informal context. In a more formal context, I tend to use whatever anatomical word I mean, labia or vagina or vulva or whatever"

so is blogging a more formal context? since u used only "vagina" not "cunt"

In general, Itazura, I think it's best for a man to err on the side of formality when talking about female genitalia. I like to use "cunt," because I think it's a good word, but I have a certain...subject position that you don't, because I have one, and I'm usually using it in contexts that make it clear that I'm not using it as an insult or a term of disdain. I wouldn't want a man using "cunt" around me unless he had an intimate relation with mine, and was thus referring to mine, just because the history of the word makes it sound a bit less like a reclamation when it's coming from a man.

On the other hand, I really, really hate the word "pussy," no matter who's using it. There's something so...soft and helpless sounding about it. Also, I don't like the double s sound. Whereas cunt sounds sort of hard and tough.

I think your best bet when talking to women you don't know intimately is to err on the side of formality: vagina, vulva, labia, clitoris, etc.

It's not 1:38 where I am at.

Beavers are not rodents. But they are the national animal of Canada, and Oregon is the beaver state. Beavers make a huge beneficial contributions to the environment, and everybody loves beavers.

Libber: well, I'll also use "vagina" when I want to be specific that I mean the actual vagina rather than the vulva in general. But it kind of depends on my mood and the tone I'm going for in the post!

definitely not "beaver" -- I hate that word (unless it's used to describe the animal). I don't like "cunt" either, but i'll sometimes use for special effects.

OK EG I promise to always use the word vagina around women, because I won't be intimate with any other woman other than my wife, most likely, ever again.

If I'm being coy and non-organ-specific, I'll call it my "area." Maybe my "elbow."

Hey Itazura, I do appreciate your desire to do good, but I'm not the boss of you! I was just passing on my opinion and advice, not handing down an official party line or anything.

Yeah but you're the one who sets the standard I would like to follow. After the debacle last night you're the last person (woman or man) I ever want to cross again.

Itazura: I love beavers too but I don't like "beaver" when used to denote my vagina

...and speaking of skunks and pussies, lookit this: http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/2007/02/he_only_has_a_v.html

I still think beaver sounds cute, but I will only use the term within the confines of fictional stories or essays that I write. I have never heard a man use the term beaver in an attempt to be derogatory.

Ithazura: I think "wee wee" sounds cute.

Itazura, how old are you? Surely most adults have the social nous to realise that discussion of genitalia (rare as it usually is among strangers and acquaintances) should err towards formality. Intimates (friends and lovers) should work out their own terminology to everyone's mutual satisfaction.

Are you taking the piss?

BTW, back to the original topic, what alternative products do you gals recommend over Vagisil? Not that I (personally) will ever need it, but I want to know which feminist friendly product to support. I do have a wife and a daughter.

oh, and i should've mentioned "honey pot", "muff" and "twat". super-cute.

A lot of thing I had always taken as safe, turned out to be offensive to feminist.

"oh, and i should've mentioned "honey pot", "muff" and "twat". super-cute."

No, none of those sound cute.

But what about dick, cock, prick, or flesh rocket? Any of those sound cute.

Wee wee is what my mother told me to call mine. Do you really think it sounds cute?

"Wee wee is what my mother told me to call mine. Do you really think it sounds cute?"

yes, if u r 5. it's called 'irony'

Moxie Hart: I believe the little pushy thing is called a plunger. :P

As far as the name thing goes, many guys give their dicks pet names, why should it be odd if we do? Any thoughts on that? Personally, I've always felt weird calling my vagina some other name or even a guy's dick but I have no problem calling my breasts names... but I think anyone with breasts my size would call them names :P If it wasn't for I feel even wierder cutting parts of my body off, I'd get a breast reduction. Someday maybe, but not ready for that yet.

"But what about dick, cock, prick, or flesh rocket? Any of those sound cute."

Itazura, I can't shake the feeling that you couldn't care less about 'offending feminists'. You seem more concerned with seeing how many dirty words you can address to a group of women without getting smacked down. It's a written equivalent of whispering dirty words in someone's ear on a crowded train. Stop. No one gives a crap what you call your penis or your wife's vagina. For fuck's sake.

I couldn't find the commercial, but I do recommend visiting the Vagisil web site where the lede invites you to, I shit you not,

Click here for an interactive tour of down there

emphasis in the original.

No, seriously, go there. The tour is to die for.

(And the truth is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, for a woman raised in about 60% of America, the actual tour with its actual names and correct diagram, embarrassment-free, might actually be considered a fairly forward-thinking presentation for a company to offer. If that company weren't, you know, selling body shame in the first place.)

I sent an email to the company stating my disdain, as well as submitted the commercial (if they can find a copy of it) for the marketing department at my school to use in their "Good vs. Evil" discussion seminar (they show the commercial to the marketing students, the students spend 10 minutes in breakout groups discussing what they thought, what they'd change, etc) and then at the end of the evening they 'vote' for the most persuasive commercial, most offensive, etc.

The company's info if anyone wants it.

vagisil@combe.com

Combe Incorporated
1101 Westchester Avenue
White Plains, New York
10604

(800) 431-2610

Taisa-Maria

Thanks for the product information on vagisil, and please keep us updated as to whether marketing students find the Vagisil skunk-vagina commercial good or evil.

Personally I don't think that it is all that offensive. From what I have heard of the commercial I don't think much of it at all, but I don't think it is terribly degrading to women either. Certainly bad advertising though, and whoever authorized it is probably going to get fired, because of the negative reaction it evokes in women.

I going to chalk this one up as a fuck up on the part of corporate American, and not a blatant attempt to be misogynistic.

BTW I never gave my "organ" a pet name because I always thought that was tacky. I never used the terms beaver or cunt in open speech, because I thought they might be offensive, but I used the word pussy a lot, but I always said it under my breath to reflect that I was referring to the body part in the clinical sense (the same way I use the word dick).

The only acceptable term I have discovered for my vagina is either calling it a vagine or the Beverly. The Bev for short. I find it completely unoffensive, and everyone knows exactly what I am talking about. And it gets a chuckle when the train station announcer informs us of the 11:42 train to Beverly. Its also a small village in Yorkshire.

I like The Bev. It trumps my term, "Area 51."

"In general, Itazura, I think it's best for a man to err on the side of formality when talking about female genitalia. I like to use "cunt," because I think it's a good word, but I have a certain...subject position that you don't, because I have one, and I'm usually using it in contexts that make it clear that I'm not using it as an insult or a term of disdain. I wouldn't want a man using "cunt" around me unless he had an intimate relation with mine, and was thus referring to mine, just because the history of the word makes it sound a bit less like a reclamation when it's coming from a man.

On the other hand, I really, really hate the word "pussy," no matter who's using it. There's something so...soft and helpless sounding about it. Also, I don't like the double s sound. Whereas cunt sounds sort of hard and tough."

I agree with EG 100%. I think Cunt is a stronger and simpler word than Pussy, and I don't have a problem with Vagina either.

"Personally I don't think that it is all that offensive. From what I have heard of the commercial I don't think much of it at all, but I don't think it is terribly degrading to women either. "

Well Itazura, I think women (especially feminist women) react negatively to a commercial like that because of the huge tabboo on female sexual organs in general that is not on male sexual organs to the same extent. I am in college. I can tell you that most guys don't consider their groins disgusting. I can also tell you that a lot of females, and a lot of males, do find female groins disgusting. Double standard. Means feminists care about how their organs are talked about and treated

Related to what other terminology you might find on TV, a character used the phrase "sugar tits" on Law & Order last night. But I suppose it's fairly typical that derogatory anatomical descriptions are "allowed" while clinical names such as vagina get euphemized into obscurity.

A few comments:

In our home, it is a vagina and a penis. I grew up in a home where they were "pee pee" and "weiner" and it took me awhile to be able to say vagina without giggling.

I don't think that the reason for the post and to be upset is over the fact that Vagisil exists, about infections or whether or not you should see a doctor due to smelling like a skunk, I think that it is the fact that in the commercial (I saw it the other day) a vagina that doesn't use Vagisil is compared to animals. I wasn't offended as much with the porcupine, but the spiky fish, yes. It was extremely offensive to have vaginal odor being compared to a skunk and most of all, the lobster.

I haven't seen this but my boyfriend talked about it-- he saw it and was shocked too. He was like, "Do women WANT something like that on TV"

MY response-- HELL NO.

I say we get a tractor and run over boxes of Vagisil in protest

Moxie Hart: I believe the little pushy thing is called a plunger. :P
LoL it was late! I don't like the word "plunger," it makes me think of clogged toilets.

I was wondering whether it bothered anybody else how often they use the term "pussies" to label the weak on the Daily Show. If they use it in an ironic way to show how uneducated and backward the frat-boy mentality is, that's one thing. But they use it so often that I don't think it's funny the 500th time. It becomes part of the acceptable vernacular at that point. I appreciate the Daily Show, but Samantha Bee is the only female on the show, and she is rarely seen. The spoofing sometimes is effective only at replicating a negative situation.

I was wondering whether it bothered anybody else how often they use the term "pussies" to label the weak on the Daily Show. If they use it in an ironic way to show how uneducated and backward the frat-boy mentality is, that's one thing. But they use it so often that I don't think it's funny the 500th time. It becomes part of the acceptable vernacular at that point. I appreciate the Daily Show, but Samantha Bee is the only female on the show, and she is rarely seen. The spoofing sometimes is effective only at replicating a negative situation.

I'm a little late coming to this, but I just wanted to say I've had a lot of luck with acidophilus pills. You can find them at your average grocery store. Take 1-3 a day when you have a yeast infection, and it'll go away in a few days. I'm allergic to Monistat (as evidenced by the burning searing itch of death) so I can't handle anything conventional.

Do yogurt drinks help?

I like the lassi at the local Indian fast food places, the ayran at the local Turkish fast food place, etc (it's also known as doogh in Farsi). :) I also like those yogurt-and-fruit smoothies more than the plain fruit ones.

OTOH, I've never had a yeast infection so I haven't experienced an iced salty lassi's effects (or lack thereof) on one.

Oh Man, I KNEW this would hit here. We were watching TV last night when that ad came on and I was lecturing the TV, I swear.

When she says it's a relief to be "Feminine" again?!?

My head nearly exploded right there.

If one were to build an archive of media to disprove claims that feminism is outdated and unnecessary that ad would be one of the most undeniable bits of proof in it...

Itazura,

Alternative reproductive hygeine products is my favorite pet topic. As far as vaginal yeast infection treatment (and prevention) goes, I use and recommend the following: boric acid powder in a vegetable gel cap inserted before bed and perhaps in the morning as well, plain whole milk yogurt applied externally and internally, the garlic treatment described above, and a weak dilution of lavender and tea tree oils applied to a sea sponge tampon (use sparingly because the tea trea oil can cause discomfort).

As for menstruation-related alternative products, I heartily recommend fabric pads and sea sponge tampons. (Ladies, once you go flannel, you won't go back! It's like wearing your jammies to the office!) Commercial pads and tampons use bleached fibers (dioxin danger!) and both leave behind fiber residue in the vagina and vulva, which can lead to irritation and infection. Many pads also contain a chemical gel that traps moisture. It's no good for the snatch!

Interesting. Is there a vegan equivalent of the sea sponge, for women and girls who like neither bleached tampons nor animal products?

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but, regarding saying vagina on TV: I was watching the Big Lebowski last week on one of the cable movie channels, maybe FX. It was during the middle of the day and some of the language had definetely been edited for TV. But during the scene when Julianne Moore's character tells The Dude about her art work being vaginal and the word vagina making men uncomfortable none of it was edited out. It made me happy.

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but, regarding saying vagina on TV: I was watching the Big Lebowski last week on one of the cable movie channels, maybe FX. It was during the middle of the day and some of the language had definetely been edited for TV. But during the scene when Julianne Moore's character tells The Dude about her art work being vaginal and the word vagina making men uncomfortable none of it was edited out. It made me happy.

aaackk...sorry for the double post

there are much better ways to say it versus 'down there'.

. . . others have already weighed in on this, obviously! But . . . the most hilarious euphemism I ever heard was when Judy Dench had a conversation about "the Midlands" in Mrs. Henderson Presents.

In a medical context, I think they should be using anatomically correct language. In our private lives: whatever floats our boats :).

Oh, and drinking or eating yogurt does help. It doesn't do much in the way of treatment, but it's great for prevention. And digestion!

Aside: I noticed that a few years ago Kotex redesigned their product packaging. Their whole marketing "thing" became a white background field contrasted with a brilliant red flower, or bunches of little red flowers. Now, what could that represent, hm?

My point is that pretty much all advertising directed at women relies on shaming techniques. Expect to see products related to our female genitals employing the most aggressive ones. And here we see "Your vagina smells and everyone will know you're dirty," and "you're going to bleed through your pants and everyone will see."

Just to defend Grey's: they use the word "vagina" on that show a TON, and in order to do that they actually had to fight the ABC network because they didn't want to allow it...until Shonda Rimes pointed out that they're allowed to use the word "penis" all the freaking time. So woo Grey's and boo double standards!

I feel that the makers of products like Vagisil, etc. have been trying to make us ashamed of our vaginas for ages.

I recently found a Seventeen Magazine from the 1970's and even then it had these types of products advertised. It was way more sexist than Seventeen is nowdays (I guess?) but it seems some things haven't changed.

My vagina does not smell like roses.It doesn't smell like chemicals, it doesn't smell like a spring meadow, or Lavender. It doesn't smell like citrus breeze or Ocean or anything like that. It smells like a clean, healthy vagina. It smells like skin and pussy because that is what it IS.

That stuff is BAD for your vagina anyway.

I am sick of people (commercials and whatnot) acting like the vagina is a scary, disgusting, shameful thing. It DOESN'T smell like fish (who started that bullshit anyway) and it doesn't bite. They are apparently so afraid of the big scary vagina monster that they dare not mention her name.
Who knew our "down there"s were so terrifying!?

Regarding the garlic- I haven't tried this but there are a lot of internet threads dedicated to it. Do not cut/knick the garlic in any way or it can burn, and you don't have to have cheesecoth. Just tie some dental floss around it. It will change colours when it comes out (green even!). It's no big deal.

Sometimes I use the word "vagingo." That's just b/c I heard Elliott on Scrubs say it & I thought it was cute.
The main thing that bothers me about this ad is the implication that vaginas are dirty & smell bad. We get told that from such a young age. I remember, when I first got my period, I was so scared that people would know that I had it & would smell it.
They make products for men re: b.o., but they never seem to say to the extent, "Your bodies are wrong & your natural odor is bad" that they do to women. In fact, they seem to be marketed to attract women (Although I'm not sure what kind of woman would be attracted to Axe or Tag).

Re: sea sponge
There are all kinds of chemicals and god-knows-what in the ocean; do you really want something that LIVED THERE in your snatch?

I recommend a menstrual cup (there are a few varieties, one being the Diva Cup) or the disposable soft cup (Instead is available in most drug stores).

It's ironic (or perhaps expected, in a patriarchy) that so many products that are designed for women's bits and marketed as being good for them are actually really REALLY bad for them. (i.e. tampons, commercial pads, douches)

I agree with Cate about shaming techniques being used in advertising. There are even numerous products for women to keep us "fresh" on a daily basis rather then just when something is medically wrong with us. I didn't know we all smelled so bad? Wow! Really, I guess we should always be ashamed. This really irritates me!

To comment on the vagina naming thing....I know that the word cunt shares the same root as kin or country (and is derived from Kunda or Cunti). As much as I love that this word has become so derogatory that I don't believe it needs reclaiming. It is too unsettling.

On the side...I love the quote in The Vagina Monologues from a little girl who is asked what her vagina reminds her of. Part of her reply, "...a diamond I found from a treasure and it's mine." I hope she doesn't grow us to think she has a stinky diamond!

MoxieHart: If anything reeks Axe and Tag do!

I think we should be getting more upset over Axe and Tag commercials!

I am excited that Vagisil's poor marketing decision touched off a conversation about home treatments.

It's like: Go ahead and infantilize, Vagisil. Now we all know we can spend a $1.85 on some yogurt and garlic. If it gets worse than that, hello GYN.

If anything reeks Axe and Tag do!
I like Axe & Tag & I'm glad that they exist--it's a very easy way for me to know who I WON'T sleep with.
Re: sponges--they've been highly recomended to me & I plan on trying them the next time I get my period (Which should be about 4 mos. from now). I doubt that they just plucked them out of the sea & said "Here, stick this up your cooch!" They have to be sanitary.

Mina,

I believe the Diva cup and the Keeper cup are vegan (silicone, I think).

Jix,

I see your point about the sea sponge's sketchy provenance, but I feel safer using the same three or four sponges for several years than using a couple of hundred bleached cotton tampons. I clean them with hot water and tea tree oil and feel fine about it. I swim in the ocean at every chance.

I advocate reusable menstrual products because I want to get out from under the corporate man any time I can, in any little way I can. If I can avoid funneling money into the pockets of companies who shame me for having a vagina, I will. It's really easy to make your own pads from old flannel shirts.

Re: Diva Cup

It's silicone! (I'm vegan also).
It really changed how I feel about my period. I still use tampons sometimes but I do love the diva cup. It's worth it, too since it can be used for years.

To get it sparkly clean: soak overnight in 1/2 peroxide, 1/2 water.

"I am excited that Vagisil's poor marketing decision touched off a conversation about home treatments.
It's like: Go ahead and infantilize, Vagisil. Now we all know we can spend a $1.85 on some yogurt and garlic. If it gets worse than that, hello GYN."

Peepers, I agree! I think a lot of women have been successfully shamed into being afraid to talk with other women about this. Our great-grandmothers could have shared so much knowledge with us had we only asked!

Thanks, Vagisil, for breaking the ice!

PamelaV – The 1970s were the era of strawberry flavoured douches.

In many ways, things have improved since then...

I found this at the Lunapads website:
Are menstrual sponges sterile?
Sea sponges are thoroughly washed, cleaned, sanitized and dried. Like tampons, sponges are not sterile, so great personal care should be taken when using them. If you have a vaginal infection or venereal disease, check with your healthcare provider before using a menstrual sponge.
http://www.lunapads.com/productfaq/seasponges.htm
Personally, I can't wait to get my sponge. I hate pads but tampons don't work for me, but I've heard that sponges are more flexible.

I didn't think of Axe and Tag that way Moxie Hart! Great comment!

LoL thanks.

I rarely refer to my vagina as anything other than a vagina. That is what it is after all. I don't really like ANY euphemisms. A vagina is a vagina.
I am the same way with a penis. A penis is a penis. I don't really like calling it anything else.

"I was wondering whether it bothered anybody else how often they use the term "pussies" to label the weak on the Daily Show"

Yes, it is troubling and bothers me when Colbert does it, too. Thanks for bringing it up...I thought I was the only one who noticed and cringed.

I can't swallow acidophilus capsules; I get horrible stomach cramps from doing so. So instead of swallowing them, I like to poke one up my vagina, which works just fine. If you're going to do that, however, make sure you get the dairy-free, non-enteric-coated kind, so the gelatin actually dissolves and you don't wind up with goat's milk residue in your vagina.

I'd actually caution against using most yoghurts, because most of them are pasteurised, and the bacterial cultures in them are long since dead. So in that case, all you're doing is putting partially-rotten milk into yourself (yum). Make sure, if you're going to treat a yeast infection by either eating or applying yoghurt, you get live-culture yoghurt.

I'm also a big fan of a backup tube of clotrimazole cream, just in case the home remedies don't work. (I won't be trying the garlic thing; if garlic actually prevented yeast infections, I'd never have gotten one in the first place, and it sounds like it would sting like crazy.) Then again, I used to have them all the time but went on Lamisil a couple years ago for mycotosis of the toenails and I haven't had much of a problem since, hallelujah. If you seem to have a chronic problem with them, you shouldn't be treating at home, you should definitely be seeing a medical professional.

I'm confused by this ad. I get some of the images, but...

Hedgehog - spiky, itchy
Blowfish - prickly
Skunk - stinky
Lobster - WTF!! delicious with melted butter?

"PamelaV – The 1970s were the era of strawberry flavoured douches. In many ways, things have improved since then..."

I was referring more to the subtle ways that the same shame-based advertising hasn't changed as much as I hoped it had. (I did not live in the 1970's). We had a time looking back at how sexist the 70's Seventeen Mag was but it made us wonder what things we *aren't* catching now that still exist.
No doubt the Seventeen mag from then makes today's Seventeen seem like a feminist mag. One particular ad was for the Army and it mentioned how it's a woman's patriotic duty to be thin. Another ad was for a hope chest to store all your crap when you get married, which made it sound like that was all you had to look forward to.

Certainly things have changed, but I was referring mostly to the "your crotch is icky" ads and how they are basically the same.

It mentioned that it is a woman's patriotic duty to be thin! I can't be more distraught over that. So if you aren't naturally thin and fine that way and instead you are starving yourself to be thin it is your duty to be weak, foggy brained and too preoccupied with calories to be in any man's way? is that what they were saying to young women? Lovely! I'm not sure if we have come very far from that thinking. I hope every young woman arms themselves with healthy ideals instead. Hopefully they will all read Full Frontal Feminism!

Great conversation!

Here is a good article I recently found about diagnosing and treating vaginitis. And, it's from a feminist website, MomMD:

http://mommd.mediwire.com/main/Default.aspx?P=Content&ArticleID=257104

Oh, and I read a great scholarly article on slang terms for genitalia, including comparing the terms for the predominant two forms (not trying to do the binary gender thing here, sorry!). The article is called " "Snatch," "Hole," or "Honey-pot"? Semantic Categories and the
Problem of Nonspecificity in Female Genital Slang." and is a fascinating read. The surveys were done in the United Kingdom, so the terms are a little different than the ones we use here.

After reading it, my friend was annoyed that men had a "royalty" category and we did not, so she started calling her vagina "The Queen". I am rather fond of that term, actually.

Thank Moxie Heart

Axe and tag really creep me out, so it's nice to know that women are appalled by those products as well.

Now that I think about it, the skunk-vagina commercial does make the very delightful vagina seem like that is should be an organ to be ashamed of, so I retract my comment that the commercial was not degrading to women. It is?

However I have never in my life thought anything bad the vagina. I have been in love with the vagina since I saw my first porn mag (Hustler) at the age of 13. In college I use to put the word vagina in hearts on the top of all my papers. My teacher was a little creeped out at first, but when I expressed my love for the vagina, she forgave me and we started a very sexual relationship that lasted nearly a year, but it was not good for my college career.

Cate, my wife is a big natural foods nut, so she likes all of your suggestions.

BTW At home my son call his penis by the Japanese term "chin-chin." I think the term sounds cute as well. In Japan few people blush at the terms used to describe the male and female sex organs.

Pussies (cats), and beavers are delightful animals that people associate good thoughts with, but blow fish, lobsters, and skunks are not.

Itazura, it's nice that you're seeking information, input and opinions. If you're truly asking (at least partly) on behalf of your wife and daughter, I hope you are also asking them for *their* input and opinions. You could also point them towards this site if you haven't already.

To everyone in general, I just want to add my voice to the outrage against the selling/promotion of shame of our bodies. I know that my vagina tastes and smells good (or at least not unpleasant) from partners past and present. I also know when I have an infection (rare, thankfully) and that products such as vagisil are no cure. (BTW, thanks for all the useful info about natural remedies!)

Unfortunately, enough women who see these shaming commercials don't have this sort of information and will be fooled into thinking the product is a cure when it is actually going to either make the problem worse or cause a problem, which will start the whole vicious cycle. It also very much implies that women should be paranoid and ashamed about our bodies (or a specific part thereof). GRRRRRRRR.

Elise, I love the scrotasil! If such a thing existed, it wouldn't make anything better but it might make more people realize how ridiculously offensive and sexist the vagisil (and its ilk) commercials are.

Oh, and in case some of you haven't already seen the "men make the strangest requests" image, click on my URL.

My wife's English is not good, so I have to translate the site to her, and my daughter is only 4.

Moxie Hart: I didn't initially think of plunger that way... I first thought of the part that pushes down the liquid in a syringe (I have the fun job of advising nursing students at my school this summer, so my brain is in medical mode, lol). But I see your point :)

As far as natural or vegan feminine products, I am not exactly sure what qualifies as vegan, but I was so mad about five years ago when Tampax stopped making the 100% cotton tampons. There were cotton and nothing else. I thought they worked just as well as any other tampon and I never had any irritation with them. I've had a hard time finding a decent replacement for them :P

& PamelaV: I had a hope chest but it had nothing to do with marriage. It was a giant forest green rubbermaid container filled with kitchen stuffs and other first apartment neccessities. It was an 18th birthday present from my mom... as subtle hint that I was free to move out whenever I wanted, lol. My mom and I are great living apart, but together we fight nonstop. ;)

Cate, just for the record, I'm pretty sure that you're actually meant to replace sea sponges every six cycles.

I LOVE my sea sponges, though. Re: what about sea chemicals and germs, I would personally rather put a sanitized sponge in my vagina than plastic. But hey, the Diva Cup is way better for you and more environmentally sound than tampons and normal sponges are. Reusable pads for everyone!

Does anyone else think that Itazura is a troll who spends far too much time here?

Apologies if i'm out of order.

I agree with you Grace. He's made some really off comments in other threads and in this one, he's basically said 'Well you fussy feminists object to so much, pray tell, what slang terms for genitalia are acceptable? Cootchie? Cock? Dick? Cunt? I like to say 'X' to my wife' etc etc

He's getting a kick out of using naughty words to a group of (mainly) women - and feminists at that. Between this and his discussion elsewhere of how his wife 'tastes', I think he's a bit of a perv and we'd all do well to ignore him.

Or maybe we can give him the benefit of the doubt, assume that he's sincere, and simply request that he peruse this blog for a while.

Cara

Thanks for the link.

awful ad, but great thread!

1. GARLIC

I have vulvar vestibulitis (for you reproductive health gurus out there, it's a more specific form of vulvodynia, and not very fun), which reacts very unpleasantly to most over the counter yeast remedies, and assorted other conditions that lead to yeast infections about once a month. I can now (after a few years of this) recognise them coming on a day or two before they get really uncomfortable, and as soon as they do, I peel a clove of garlic (withOUT a knife) and pop it in my vagina about 2 knuckles up, for about 24 hours (switching cloves) and it never gets worse than the "oh shit, i feel like i'm about to get a flaming yeast infection tomorow" feeling. And then that feeling goes away within 48 hours, every time. I then have 3-4 weeks of yeast-free, itch-free, garlic-free vaginal health before I get the feeling again. It works fabulously, and when I told my doctor about it, she thought it was great! It does not work as well if I don't have garlic in the house or am away, and wait to pop in a clove until I'm already super uncomfortable, so early treatment seems to be the key.

At first, I used plain dental floss tied around the clove to pull it out with, and also tried cheesecloth. I've become comfortable with just sticking my finger up to pull out the clove and exchange it for another after 6-8 hours, plus the dental floss was hard to tie on so that it would stay, and the cheesecloth would leave little bits of string everywhere which I found irritating. Taking it out is much less invasive than taking out my keeper. It's also fun when it's been there six or seven hours to be walking around downtown or at work thinking "hmm. garlic. yum. OH! that garlic smell is...my vagina. bet no one else knows that i have garlic in my vagina." :)
I have been told by several sources that it will sting unbelievably if the clove is nicked while peeling, so I really wouldn't suggest chopping or mashing it before you insert it, especially if you're already itchy and painful and a bit raw in the vulva/vagina, unless you're really desperate.

2. keeper =vegan; it's natural rubber. I've had mine for 10-11 years. It took a lot to get used to (as a young teenager, mind) but once I got some tips from other users I fell in love with it. And it actually DOES last 10 years!

3. Elise:

I was rolling with laughter. You rock. I would love to see this commercial happen.

4. Euphemisms:

I like "vagina" better than anything else. I know that VDay and Eve Ensler supposedly re-claimed "cunt" for us all, but it's such a turn-off in bed, and I think I like "down there" just about as well.
Are there OFFENSIVE euphemisms for male genitalia? They all seem to be so macho, are men offended by any of them, ever?

5. Advertisements

Ads like these are a lot of the reason I refuse to have a television. I watch the newscast online most days, uploaded right after it airs anyway, and listen to the radio news other days. I rent movies and borrow some from my city library; this is also part of the reason I never have any clue about pop culture though. Sometimes I think I want a television, and then I hear about commercials like this...

eriously. It works, plus the coolness of the yoghurt is quite refreshing for the itch and it also has the benefit of not smelling like garlic.

I swear by the yogurt, though sometimes I can't help but use it with the store-bought crap. I just can't deal with it for 4 days or whatever.

I prefer "vag" when referring to myself. In some situations I find "pussy" appropriate, as in the sentence, "James is a good guy, but sometimes I can't bring him around my female friends. It's as if his brain shorts out suddenly and becomes wired for pussy."

Itazura, if you don't mind me asking, if you have a wife and a 4-year old daughter, why are you up all night blogging on a feminist site?

libber, just a guess, but from some things Itazura has said, I think he's living in a different part of the world, and might not be American to begin with. Of course, I can't say for sure :)

I love all the suggestions on here for natural vaginal health. I'm in my early 20's and haven't heard about any of these remedies anywhere else. I've gotten a yeast infection once and just used monistat. If I ever get one again, I'll know my options extend far beyond the "girl aisle" in the drug store.

okay i'm on a couple cocktails (I'm celebrating getting my Masters) so this my be a bit of a mish mosh.

1. I saw something about douches somewhere in the comments. When I moved into my dorm freshman year they gave us little boxes with like tampons and advil and also "feminine hygiene spray", me and my friends used to go around spraying in under other people's doors

2. I've been lucky enough never to have a yeast infection. My friend heather did and she was miserable. Once one of the girls in our sorority (who was a little more conservative) came up to her and was like, oh you look so cute in your skirt. My friend was like "yeah i'm only wearing it cause pants irritate my vagina"

2. I personally like to reclaim any word that is designed to mean vaginia. Over my four years of college my friends and I referred to them as everything from, twat, to cunt to cootchie snorcher (after seeing the monologues)

anyway, i know there is a lot of animosity going towards itzaura right now. I'm personally undecided, sometimes I think he's trying to be funny and sometimes I think he's clueless and sometimes i think he needs to realize that posting on a message board is different then having conversations with his close personal friends :)

everyone enjoy their day, i'm going to enjoy being educated and unemployed :)

Congrats, natmusk! Educated and unemployed can be very pleasant indeed!

I doubt Itazura is a troll; he doesn't say hostile things or derail the conversation, he doesn't diss women or feminism; he doesn't level personal insults. If he is a troll, we could use a few more like him. Some people just aren't particularly good at handling the nuances of tone over the internet, but that can come with practice.

Lobster - WTF!! delicious with melted butter?

Well, but what isn't? I tell you, if my cunt tasted like lobster, I'd never get out of bed.

I know that VDay and Eve Ensler supposedly re-claimed "cunt" for us all, but it's such a turn-off in bed

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I...don't find it a turn-off. At all. And I just want to say, I was reclaming cunt way before Eve Ensler did. That Eve Ensler totally stole my thunder!

Yeah, I don't think that Itazura is a troll. I just think that some things lose their funny over the interwebz--there's no facial expression or intonation which go a long way towards interpreting whether something's a joke or hostile.
I hated those gift boxes that they gave out in college. The women always got tampons & deodorant but the guys always got the ones with the condoms. It just sent a really weird message. Personally, since I'm the one that has the possibility of getting pregnant, I like being the one to do everything I can to prevent it & I don't want to depend on someone else to be responsible.

Oh, hey, to whomever was asking about cotton tampons--I am completely in love with Natracare organic tampons. They're 100% cotton and non-chlorine bleached! You can usually pick them up in health-food stores.

Here's a link. I've used them for years, ever since Karen Houppert wrote about dioxin in her expose on the tampon industry in the Village Voice, which became her book, The Curse.

"Itazura, if you don't mind me asking, if you have a wife and a 4-year old daughter, why are you up all night blogging on a feminist site?"

Let me tell you a little something about myself. I am bored by discussions about professional sports, I have no desire to build a fantasy football or baseball team, I hate cars, actions movies bore the hell out of me, and I don't find homophobic jokes funny.

My favorite topics are romance, sex, politics, global issues, travel, parenting, art appreciation, history, and environmentalist causes.

My favorite TV shows are Nip/Tuck, Sex and the City, 6 Feet Under, L word, Queer as Folk, Lost, and Weeds.

My favorite movies are Korean and Japanese chick flicks/romances.

My favorite anima is Ranma 1 half.

My hobbies are writing romance stories, long walks with the wife and kids, giving my wife orgasms, reading non-fiction, listening to people's stories.

No I'm not gay, just a very atypical straight man, and I find feministing.com a lot more interesting than anything else that is on the web (salon.com is a close second).

Most of the time at night my wife is reading over my shoulder as post comments here.

Itazura: if that's really you, then you are the perfect guy. And your wife is lucky to have you. But I thought you said your wife didn't speak any English. Anyway, it sounds like you are pretty sincere, and some of us are probably just a little neurotic (because of the past incidences of trolling)

She's speaks a little bit of English. Actually speaking is not her problem, but she hates to read and write in English. She can read over my shoulder, but I am constantly explaining to her what I am writing.

Also she has her own blog that is dedicated to her cooking abilities, but it is completely in Japanese.

Vaginas, just like everything else we're uncomfortable talking about in public (blacks, eskimos, abortions) need nicknames. My favorite term for my cooch is 'cow tongue'.

Lisa: "I like "vagina" better than anything else. I know that VDay and Eve Ensler supposedly re-claimed "cunt" for us all, but it's such a turn-off in bed, and I think I like "down there" just about as well.
Are there OFFENSIVE euphemisms for male genitalia? They all seem to be so macho, are men offended by any of them, ever?"

I'm not a man but I'd imagine "that thing" could be offensive but maybe I'm just imagining things (but one phrase I really hate is "Little John" -- or whatever the guy's name is)

"Is there a vegan equivalent of the sea sponge, for women and girls who like neither bleached tampons nor animal products?"

Mina - The Mooncup is approved by the UK vegan society. You can probably get synthetic sponges too, but silicone menstrual cups are awesome, and can last 10 years, rather than 3 cycles like sponges do. You can also make your own reusable pads from old, soft flannel or towels.

I also second whoever brought up the garlic remedy. I used it the last time I had a yeast infection and it worked great. I didn't bother tying it up in gauze, just scooped it with fingers.

Yay for cheap home remedies that don't support evil pharmaceutical companies!

Libber: What about cock, dick, etc? And there is no worse feeling when you take off your pants for the first time in front of a woman to the response of "that's it?".

Libber: What about cock, dick, etc? And there is no worse feeling when you take off your pants for the first time in front of a woman to the response of "that's it?".

Libber: What about cock, dick, etc? And there is no worse feeling when you take off your pants for the first time in front of a woman to the response of "that's it?".

just like everything else we're uncomfortable talking about in public (blacks, eskimos, abortions)

Who's "we"? Black people need "nicknames" because white people are "uncomfortable" talking about them in public? And...eskimos?

"Are there OFFENSIVE euphemisms for male genitalia? They all seem to be so macho, are men offended by any of them, ever?"

Yes; Limp or Impotent member.

As far as a general term that is offensive, no. And every man I know loves it when women use a term in open speech that describes a penis, whatever the term may be.

"Vaginas, just like everything else we're uncomfortable talking about in public (blacks, eskimos, abortions) need nicknames"

PBH, since when were we unconfortable talking about vaginas in public?

"And there is no worse feeling when you take off your pants for the first time in front of a woman to the response of "that's it?"."

I'm on the smaller than average size, and whenever a women gave me the "that it" look or comment, then that me brought me up to the challenge. I would then reply "yeah, but you're going to be screaming with ecstasy as soon as you see what I can do this." The worse thing that can happen to a man if a failure, which has happened me to before, and whenever it did, all I wanted to do was go the bathroom and cry.

On word usage:

When I'm giving information about sex toys, I generally prefer to use the medical terms because 1. They're "neutral" and 2. They won't confuse anyone. There are two exceptions here: "clitoris" can be shortened to "clit" without any confusion, and I say "G-Spot" rather than "urethral sponge" to avoid blank looks.

When I'm whispering in my guy's ear I'll say things like "cunt"*, "pussy"**, "cock" and "shaft".

*It's a cognate of "cradle" and "cunning", and it has a sort of... tight, organic sound to it.

**To me, this sounds affectionate, possibly because we're both ailurophiles. Also, it has that sensual sibilant right in the middle.

If I'm trying to be funny, I might say things like "cooch", "vag", "junk", or "wang" (the latter two for guys, obviously). Not "beaver" or "twat", though: the latter sounds gross, and the former... while beavers are the national animal here, I always found them rather ungainly.

For other neutral, non-medical terms, I've found I like "lady bits" and "boy bits".

One last note: for years, my husband's penis went without a nickname. Then he cracked a joke which made me laugh for a full minute, and suddenly it had a moniker.

"Libber: What about cock, dick, etc? And there is no worse feeling when you take off your pants for the first time in front of a woman to the response of "that's it?"."

PBH: oh, I can definitely see how "that's it" and other phrases like it would be offensive. But "dick" and "cock" don't sound all that offensive but maybe I'm wrong (?).

Sorry about the last post, I hit the post button instead of preview (I do that a lot).

Yeah "beaver" does sound awkward in the bedroom. "lick my pussy" is the phrase I love to hear, and fortunately my wife usually starts our sessions with that phrase. And the word "clit" said by my wife during foreplay is always a turn on.

Beaver is basically the porn industry word, but it sounds cute in conversation (especially when women use it).

Itazura: there are a LOT of porn industry words. I think they use so many in part to avoid repetition -- seeing as most of them are doing variations on the same thing.

I have spent hours at word documents trying to think up new sex talk for that exact reason ShifterCat. In fact I have nearly completed an entire book on it.

How many ways can you describe sex? Quite a lot actually, and there seems to be no limit to the kind of foreplay you can engage in.

Yeah. This commercial? Balls (there's your perjorative use of manparts, folks). I can't fathom a marketing group putting "down there" in a commercial they buy time for on Adult Swim on cartoon network, which airs Family Guy, which has (as previously mentioned) used the term "down there" in a feminine hygiene context for laughs. It's so rare that marketing is out of touch these days, we have become so frightfully efficient at lying to each other in the name of commerce... so don't buy the Vagisil, ladies. Hit 'em in the babymaker with your pocketbook. I'm flashing back to other embarassing short-lived nationwide commercials of note... does anyone remember "these new pads smell like... FRESH PANTIES!"
:::the looney toons look at the audience; the violin lilts:::

EG: Thanks for the link to the cotton tampons! And oddly enough, I never thought to look for tampons at the natural foods store (just never crossed my mind, lol) :)

Have to chime in on the Mooncup love. Mine is AWESOME, I've had it about a year now and it's just fab. Menstrual cups deserve a feministing post all to themselves - they are so great.

Ooohhh, first time posting!
I have to say, ever since I read Inga Muscio's book Cunt (Seal Press), I have generally tended to refer to "down there" (god, what a stupid term) as such. Either cunt or vulva, actually. I dislike the word "vagina" because I agree with Inga that it only really describes the hole itself, and kind of ignores all the other stuff around it. I say "cunt" because it is kind of an all-inclusive for me, and I would hate for people to forget that I also have a clitoris, labia, etc. Especially those that are visitors to the area. (Vulva is also an all-inclusive)
Am I alone in being slightly put off by Itazura's description of the sex life he shares with his wife? I appreciate the whole enjoying giving his wife orgasms thing, but I feel (and I may be wrong)that it should be implied when one is speaking to a group of feminists... I know I would sure as hell never even think about marrying someone who didn't enjoy giving me orgasms, and I presume to think that many enlightened people in this world feel the same way.

Ooohhh, first time posting!
I have to say, ever since I read Inga Muscio's book Cunt (Seal Press), I have generally tended to refer to "down there" (god, what a stupid term) as such. Either cunt or vulva, actually. I dislike the word "vagina" because I agree with Inga that it only really describes the hole itself, and kind of ignores all the other stuff around it. I say "cunt" because it is kind of an all-inclusive for me, and I would hate for people to forget that I also have a clitoris, labia, etc. Especially those that are visitors to the area. (Vulva is also an all-inclusive)
Am I alone in being slightly put off by Itazura's description of the sex life he shares with his wife? I appreciate the whole enjoying giving his wife orgasms thing, but I feel (and I may be wrong)that it should be implied when one is speaking to a group of feminists... I know I would sure as hell never even think about marrying someone who didn't enjoy giving me orgasms, and I presume to think that many enlightened people in this world feel the same way.

Ooohhh, first time posting!
I have to say, ever since I read Inga Muscio's book Cunt (Seal Press), I have generally tended to refer to "down there" (god, what a stupid term) as such. Either cunt or vulva, actually. I dislike the word "vagina" because I agree with Inga that it only really describes the hole itself, and kind of ignores all the other stuff around it. I say "cunt" because it is kind of an all-inclusive for me, and I would hate for people to forget that I also have a clitoris, labia, etc. Especially those that are visitors to the area. (Vulva is also an all-inclusive)
Am I alone in being slightly put off by Itazura's description of the sex life he shares with his wife? I appreciate the whole enjoying giving his wife orgasms thing, but I feel (and I may be wrong)that it should be implied when one is speaking to a group of feminists... I know I would sure as hell never even think about marrying someone who didn't enjoy giving me orgasms, and I presume to think that many enlightened people in this world feel the same way.

wow moveable type is lame. sorry for the multi-post...
P.S. Y'all should really sit down with Muscio's book some time.

Itazura,

Having read the entire thread, I took some time and waited before commenting, so as to let my thoughts fully form and also to make sure I wasn't responding in haste.

Having done that, I'll begin by saying that I offer you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that your intentions were sincere and honorable. I don't know you, therefore I have no reason to think otherwise.

But....I can't help but think that, whatever your intention, sincere or otherwise, your frequent additions to the discourse were not only passively derailing, but inappropriately sexualized a non sexual issue. But more than that, as a man speaking to another man in a feminist identified venue, what really concerns me is the multiple times women on this thread who expressed a dis ease with your approach, your verbage, and questions that were inappropriate on several levels.

As I said, I'm hoping the mistake was an ignorant one. In the future, you may wish to consider the following:

1) First and foremost, this is a website with a prevailing theme of feminist identified topics, philosophy, and readership. You and I certainly have a right to be here, though with that specific dynamic, I like to approach my patronage as a guest in someone else's home. In other words, unless you have been greatly and unfairly offended, "go with the flow". Or more accurately, stay on topic. As in whether or not Vagisil needs to be implicated in producing adds with what could be perceived as an anti female message. Frankly, your wifes specific sexual highs and lows, your past affairs with teachers, and the size of you penis are off topic and read as socially inappropriate. More importantly, they have a high likelihood of offending others, because they have nothing to do with what the author intended to create discussion around, as well as adding to the all too common assumption that womens concerns are fair game to be trivialized and sexualized..

2) When you are told something you say is offensive to someone, or you are told in no uncertain terms that someone thinks you are trolling for kicks, it is generally good form to believe them, apologize for the offense taken, and stop the behavior. Not doing that, and continuing on with the exact things people had taken issue with, serves to color your credibility and your genuine intent as less than sincere.

Apologies in advance for this rather lengthy comment, I just felt strongly that it needed to be said.

Itazura,

Having read the entire thread, I took some time and waited before commenting, so as to let my thoughts fully form and also to make sure I wasn't responding in haste.

Having done that, I'll begin by saying that I offer you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that your intentions were sincere and honorable. I don't know you, therefore I have no reason to think otherwise.

But....I can't help but think that, whatever your intention, sincere or otherwise, your frequent additions to the discourse were not only passively derailing, but inappropriately sexualized a non sexual issue. But more than that, as a man speaking to another man in a feminist identified venue, what really concerns me is the multiple times women on this thread who expressed a dis ease with your approach, your verbage, and questions that were inappropriate on several levels.

As I said, I'm hoping the mistake was an ignorant one. In the future, you may wish to consider the following:

1) First and foremost, this is a website with a prevailing theme of feminist identified topics, philosophy, and readership. You and I certainly have a right to be here, though with that specific dynamic, I like to approach my patronage as a guest in someone else's home. In other words, unless you have been greatly and unfairly offended, "go with the flow". Or more accurately, stay on topic. As in whether or not Vagisil needs to be implicated in producing adds with what could be perceived as an anti female message. Frankly, your wifes specific sexual highs and lows, your past affairs with teachers, and the size of you penis are off topic and read as socially inappropriate. More importantly, they have a high likelihood of offending others, because they have nothing to do with what the author intended to create discussion around, as well as adding to the all too common assumption that womens concerns are fair game to be trivialized and sexualized..

2) When you are told something you say is offensive to someone, or you are told in no uncertain terms that someone thinks you are trolling for kicks, it is generally good form to believe them, apologize for the offense taken, and stop the behavior. Not doing that, and continuing on with the exact things people had taken issue with, serves to color your credibility and your genuine intent as less than sincere.

Apologies in advance for this rather lengthy comment, I just felt strongly that it needed to be said.

Personally, I love the word cunt. It's such a raw word, and when it's referring to my vagina and surrounding parts (or someone else's), I like the way it sounds. I think it's because that's how I think of sexuality, as something that's raw.

However, I do take issue when someone calls me a cunt. Because then he or she is trying to offend me by relating me to something that society has labeled gross (much like in this commercial), instead of the wonderful thing it is.

Well, my point is that in the normal flow of conversation, if someone says "so and so is such a dick" or "what a cock", it usually is not in reference to something positive. It is odd (and maybe post worthy) of exploring how nicknames for genitalia, both male and female, became such derisive terms.

I tell you, if my cunt tasted like lobster, I'd never get out of bed.

EG, word. I sprayed the screen on that one. My enjoyment of your comment was well worth having to wipe off the monitor.

Itazura, can you tell me where you are from originally?

My personal favorite vulva euphemism: my O'Keeffes.

I like just calling mine 'vag'. (Although in my head, I spell it 'vadge'.) Also, a friend of mine always say 'cat', which I sort of like. ...Just thought I'd share...

It kills me that people are *still* using the term "pussy" -- it's SO '70s! I just think of disco, terrible clothing and the sexual subjugation of women, a la Charlie's Angels. Ridiculous! My vagina is *not* a pussy and that is one word that so disgusts me, I will cease a convo the minute I hear it. My vagina is just that: a vagina. Why we need to use porn terms to refer to our bodies seems counterproductive, IMHO.

As for sea sponges, I've tried them, but, if you've got anything more than a trickle for flow, you'd best stick with some other product or you'll be changing out your sponges every hour or less! :-O

As for men posting on this site, why not? I'd rather know that they were at least interested to hear our views (whether they agree with them or not) instead of just ignoring us completely. I'd rather be inclusive than exclusive.

My two cents, anyway....

@alikatz: I think "pussy" stayed around because "vulva" isn't really in popular use. We need a better word to refer to female genitalia as a whole (and I'm ok with attempting to reclaim "pussy"), because like some people pointed out above, "vagina" isn't the whole thing.

In response to comments waayy above: I've definitely heard "vagina" on network television (though I'm not much of a tv person, so there's probably plenty of more bothersome material that I'm not seeing). For instance, in that Scrubs episode someone referenced where Elliot says "vagingo," Carla rolls her eyes and says, "maybe that's because it looks so much like a VAGINA."

PBH: "my point is that in the normal flow of conversation, if someone says "so and so is such a dick" or "what a cock", it usually is not in reference to something positive. It is odd (and maybe post worthy) of exploring how nicknames for genitalia, both male and female, became such derisive terms"

Well, obviously, PBH. We were talking about words denoting the vagina (other than "vagina") I'd hate if people called *me* "cunt" or "vagina".

As for "vagina" only denoting the hole, I know that's how it's used medically but I use it to denote my vulva (not just the hole).

alikatze: "As for men posting on this site, why not? I'd rather know that they were at least interested to hear our views"

I don't have a problem with men posting on this site (or any other feminist site), especially not if they are feminists. And yes, I do believe men can be feminists. A feminist just is someone who advocates the rights of women.

"adding to the all too common assumption that womens concerns are fair game to be trivialized and sexualized.. ... continuing on with the exact things people had taken issue with, serves to color your credibility and your genuine intent as less than sincere.

These are the exact things that have been bothering me. Thanks Al.

Itazura, I do want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but when the inappropriate nature of many of your comments here and elsewhere has been repeatedly pointed out, and you haven't made any changes to your behaviour, what am I supposed to think? Even if you have the best intentions in the world, you are creeping people out and this ought to be a space where that doesn't happen.

Gah, I don't want to gang up, I'm just frustrated because I and others have pointed things out nicely to you a bunch of times now and you haven't paid any attention.

Wow this string has gone on a long time. Is that because I stirred stuff up?

I really don't care if people think I am insincere or not. My comments are my comments, and let them speak for themselves. However I will probably write a lot of stuff here that I will later disagree with after I read counter post, which is the main reason why I post here. I want to know if I have it wrong (anti-feminist), or right (feminist). Personally I want to get it right, and that is my motivation for posting here.

As far as my vote/politics goes, I support a woman's right to choice, and I would rather no government funding go to Crisis Pregnancy Centers because I think they misleads women. I support legislation that makes it a hate crime if the crime was motivated by hatred toward women (or gays). I support gay marriage. I think women should be able to sue their employers if they are treated unfairly in the work place. I think religious beliefs should not trump the rights of women or rape victims. I think Emergency Contraceptive devices should be sold off the shelf, and no hospital or pharmacist should be allowed to refuse them, because they are not abortions (and I don’t want pharmacist putting their beliefs over the rights of women when it comes to contraceptive sales at the drug store counter either). I think health care insurers should cover contraceptive devises.

As far as my personal views go, I have nothing against engagement rings, but I like other less patriarchal themes as well. I am a traditionalist is that I think traditions are fine as long as they are not enforced by law. I am pro-life, but I will never begrudge anyone for choosing to terminate a pregnancy. I want to find ways to promotes self confidence in women, and start tearing down the organs of society that have stacked the social, judicial, and economic decks against women. But most importantly I hope that I can give a sense to women that independence and self-respect is golden. Few of the women in my work and in my social circle understand that.

Was anyone else horrified by "always clean," you know, the pads with the individually wrapped baby wipes attached? Just wondering...

Itazura: "this string has gone on a long time. Is that because I stirred stuff up"

Yup. If you hadn't told us that you think "beavers" is cute when used to denote a woman's vagina, there would be no feminist issues left for us to talk about.

sasha0189 re "always clean" - I actually kind of liked those because some days things get extra messy and the attached wipe makes clean up easier when you're in a public bathroom stall. However I've since switched to reusable pads. The disposables make me itch.
I tried a cup for a while (Instead) but I could never get it positioned correctly.

"Yup. If you hadn't told us that you think "beavers" is cute when used to denote a woman's vagina, there would be no feminist issues left for us to talk about."

Is that a good thing or not?

I think beaver the animal is cute, so that is why I thought the term "beaver" to represent a vagina was cute. I never thought of that as sexist, or anti-feminist, but I did see it as porn industry term, which was why I never used the term in open speech.

It is sexist or anti-feminist to use the term beaver?

Actually we have probably spent too much time on that topic. I'm more interested in what all-natural "feminine" products you gals recommend.

Lets forget about beaver as a sexual term for now. I still think it sounds cute, but I won't use it in open speech or bring it back up on this site.

BTW the cutest term for a vagina in Japanese is:
Himitsu No Hanazono
Which means “secret garden.�

Chiming in late, but I have to say that "vagingo" is a terrific word.

The Diva Cup is great. It took a few tries to get the hang of it, but now I wouldn't go back to tampons for anything. Drain it and wash it morning and evening, and don't think about it at all the rest of the time.

One of my pleas for the environment is for women to reduce the amount of disposables they use. Even if menstrual cups or flannel pads aren't for you, choose products that use the least toxic, polluting, or non-biodegradable components as possible. More blathering about this on my blog.

Rugosa, formerly posting as Buffalo Gal

What's your blog Buffalo Gal (or is it Rugosa)?

"Is that a good thing or not?"

I think she was being sarcastic, Itazura. I don't wish to speak for Libber, but it sounded to me like a jesting way of saying, "Don't assume it's all about you, dude."

"I really don't care if people think I am insincere or not. My comments are my comments, and let them speak for themselves."

Fine, but you should care if you're making a lot of women uncomfortable, and it seems clear that you are. Al did a pretty good job of spelling out why.

If a lot of people start to criticize what you're doing, the solution isn't to make long speeches defending yourself -- it's to pipe down and listen.

I have been listening, and I do care (I wouldn't still be commenting here if I didn't).

But I can't really defend my sincerity. All I can say is I didn't write anything that didn't come out of my head and heart. I may have been wrong in my initial prose, but I am learning, so give me some time to improve.

I have a question, and y'all seem just the women to ask....I've wanted to try using one of the menstrual cups for a while, but I am quite fat with a large stomach, and am not able to easily reach far up into my vagina. Would it be difficult to insert or remove the cup? That's the only thing keeping me from buying one. I suppose I could just try, but have this fear that I'll end up in the ER just to have someone remove it for me the first time!!! (funny the things that partners are good for, that you don't think of till you're single!)

I have a question, and y'all seem just the women to ask....I've wanted to try using one of the menstrual cups for a while, but I am quite fat with a large stomach, and am not able to easily reach far up into my vagina. Would it be difficult to insert or remove the cup? That's the only thing keeping me from buying one. I suppose I could just try, but have this fear that I'll end up in the ER just to have someone remove it for me the first time!!! (funny the things that partners are good for, that you don't think of till you're single!)

Kris: If you can use a tampon comfortably, you can use a cup. It takes practice, but after a few days (during which you use pads or panty liners in case of leaks) you'll be fine!

a) i have seen this vagisil commercial and pointed it out to both men and women, who are universally horrified.

b) i like to use the word "poon" myself, because it has a nice ring to it. because of my accent it sounds awesome when i say it. sometimes i say "cooch" or even "cooter", all with that same accent. i don't fear the word "cunt" but i can only type it, and to say it aloud makes me blush. "pussy,vadge, vagoo, (i love vagingo!) the queen," i love all of those words. i will use them more often! when i am feeling special i use the phrase "Blacque Pousse" with the accent over the "e" in "pousse."

c) why is it uncomfortable to talk about black people, eskimos, abortions, and vaginas? okay abortions and vaginas i can understand but black people and eskimos? and by "i can understand" i mean "if you blush when people kiss on the teevee box."

d) Scrotasil. you need an artist to make a rendition of the packaging. youtube is calling your name, girl!

I guess I already stated that I dislike the term "pussy" but am okay with the terms "cunt" "vulva" and "vagina". I have not yet found a word I love. I have a cute anecdote though:

Once upon a time, a bunch of environmentalist college kids were at a convention. One from a rural midwestern town who'd never been outside his state was talking about some lollipops shaped like female genitalia:

"Wait, if vagina is the inside part, what's the outside called?" -him
"Vulva" -me (starting to crack up)
"But... but that doesn't sound /sexy/... what about 'rose' or something?" -him

I guess part of my thing... why does a word for female genitalia /need/ to sound "cute" or "sexy" ... guy euphemisms don't

Ninapendamaishi,

Exactly. To me, there's something uncomfortable and condescending about naming female genitalia after cute, furry animals. Especially when men are using the term.

Both in my professional life (I'm a paramedic) and in personal relationships with female friends, if I need to refer to it, I call it a vagina, or vulva depending on what exactly I'm speaking of.

Whoa, didn't realize this thread was so long!

I just saw this commercial yesterday afternoon, and I think my favorite part is the "100% feminine, 100% of the time" tagline at the end. Because if you're a REAL woman, it should always smell like daisies and chocolate chip cookies "down there"! I can't believe that ad is on TV.

i just saw this commercial over the weekend, too. i had the tv on in the background (i'll often do that-- i need background noise) and wasn't really paying attention. but about half-way through the commercial i realized what was going on and my jaw actually dropped. all i could think was "oh no they didn't!"

someone mentioned how we're told our vaginas should smell like flowers and it reminded me of this guy i knew in college. freshman year he used to talk about how his high school girlfriend's vagina smelled like roses. i was like "she douches." he was all "no she doesn't, she just naturally smells that way." i was like "no, vaginas smell like vagina. she either douches or uses fds." he was a stubborn ass about the whole thing.

btw, when i was a kid, i thought fds was a kind of underarm deodorant made just for women. i never thought women would ever use an aerosol spray on their crotches.

Hey, Kris.

Where your cervix is makes a difference when you are placing a menstrual cup. Some people's are easy to put a finger on and some people's are more difficult. If you can touch your cervix, you can use a cup — probably even an Instead. These are disposable and harder to insert than Diva Cups, but a lot cheaper. They might be a good option if you want to experiment before dropping 40 bucks on a cup.

Sigh. Off-topic, but since the word has come up a few times now:

In Canada and Greenland, the word "Eskimo" is a SLUR. It means "eater of raw meat". The word most northern native peoples use for themselves is "Inuit", which means "The People".

Apparently the Yupik people of Alaska still consider "Eskimo" acceptable, but it's still got to be noted that the word began as an outsider's pejorative term, not any tribe's word for themselves.

Hmm, for those that talked about the sponges and the diva cup -- have these ever been associated with bladder infections? I gave up on tampons after developing bladder infections both times I used them (oddly enough, never had yeast infections though). Still, I have allergy issues w/ pads at times, so find the alternatives intriguing.

I HAVE FOUND THE LINK! I spoke the the agency that did the spot and it apparently has caused a rift in their company ... atleast you know that when you make a bad spot it comes back to haunt you... Just like an itch "DOWN THERE"!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kOxgBggmG9k

"And why is it that we're the only ones who have the dubious honour of our genital issues being dripped and splattered amongst the toothpaste ads? The only commercials they have about guys' penises are about getting laid. How about some ads for crotch rot remedies or scrotal itching?"

I just saw http://www.metafilter.com/68078/Gee-Your-Penis-Smells-Terrific (concerning http://www.nodoro.com/about.php ) on MetaFilter and was reminded of this thread...