Wow. That web site is really scary! I felt sick to my stomach reading it.

Our "preoccupation with fairness..." Haha. We just accept our place as inferiors.

Why don't they just buy themselves Real Dolls?

Funny. That's why I don't wanna marry an American man.

If you want another example of this you should listen to Tom Leykis, only he says to marry hispanic women instead. He's a popular radio talk show host in southern california.

Whoa. Have these guys actually been to Viet Nam recently?

I'm an American ex-pat living and working in Ho Chi Minh City, and their perception of Vietnamese women doesn't even come close to the women I know here.

You know what we (and our friends) call these guys here? Losers Back Home.

Great post. I always encountered these jerks in Japan. You could always spot one of the fetishists because they'd always say things like, "I want a Japanese woman because they aren't (horrible) like American/British/Russian/etc women."

That website is as horrifying as the personals in foreigner publications in Japan. You'd always see at least 10 personals a month that were along the lines of: "I'm a white married man seeking a Japanese woman for friendship or more." Yep, the "or more" is a pretty good indicator that some Western businessman thinks he can just appear in a different culture for a few days and try to get his rocks off by not only disrespecting the culture, but also by cheating on his wife. It's disgusting and creates stereotypes that are used to insult foreigners/immigrants who are in Japan for genuine reasons. Not only that, but it only shows how badly some individuals view Asian women as something for them to consume and not to respect.

Oops, "We just CAN'T accept..."

www.blowmeuptom.com

Is the address if you want to listen online in the afternoon.

2. Her self-centeredness, her ridiculously high expectations, her sense of entitlement, her high-maintenance, superficial, and stuck up attitude, her snootiness and her sense of superiority. This "princess" syndrome means that she will always think that she is better than you, and that she deserves and she is entitled to whatever she wants from you.

Funny... I was thinking that perfectly describes the men who run that site. They are completely self-centered and feel they are superior. I suppose this is called the... "prince syndrome"? Or... asshole syndrome?

I don't think these guys have anything to worry about. No intelligent women in this country would really want to marry any guy like this and, frankly, less women would want to marry American men after reading that.

Zoje: That's what we call them in Japan too. :)

LBH for short.

I'd love to see some examples of what american men but in foreign magazines and hopefully some of the chewing out that they get from that country.

It is funny to me, having lived in Japan for a while, seeing the way Japanese women are perceived and how they actually are.

The stereotype out here seems to be that they are doormats and will do whatever their husband wants. The stereotype over in Japan is that this behaviour ends with marriage and they're tyrants in the household after that.

Neither are entirely true, certainly not for all cases, but the two American friends of mine who married Japanese women... well, one of them had a pretty good job; his wife handled the finances and gave him a $100 a month allowance. Tending more toward the Japanese view of Japanese women than the American.

Had one Japanese woman tell me that foreign men thought Japanese women were like taxis; they're yellow and when foreign men snap their fingers, they appear. The reason for this convoluted sentence: Japanese women know how foreign men view them. At least, they do if they spend any time around foreigners. They're not any likelier than people in any other country to be stupid.

I read a messageboard for westerners who teach English abroad, and unfortunately some men who go to southeast Asia unfortunately feel that way. I've also heard that some Korean and Japanese men often deliberately refuse to date women in their own country, and instead go to southeast Asia, because female citizens of their countries are "too liberated." :(

Yup, one of my biggest pet peeves too, Samhita. Add that to the whole "Latin women are fiery in the sack", and that pretty much sums up my sexual ethnic "background". Fuck off.

However, after browsing the site (I couldn't help myself), I have to say that this is so ridiculous that I can't even find anything to say:

"99.9% of the single women in this country are not even marriageable.
Take away the women beyond the marriageable age (over 30).
Take away the fat women.
Take away the ugly women.
Take away the psycho Zoloft / Prozac women.
Take away the raped women.
Take away the women with STDs / HIV.
Take away the women who can't cook.
Take away the women who already have kids.

And you've eliminated 99.9% of the single women in this country."

How about this--take away the fat guys, the ugly guys, the Zoloft/Prozac guys, the guys with small penises (ANYTHING less than 7 inches is UNACCEPTABLE), take away the rapists, take away the guys with STDs/HIV, and...yeah. You've eliminated 99.99% of "marrigeable" men in America.

Obviously the stereotypes about Japanese women and Asian women in general aren't true. It makes me feel a lot better to read all your posts and know that not everyone thinks like those asshats who publish that website and others like it.

Not to get all melodramatic on you all, but this is the kind of crap that really made me frightened of men when I was growing up. I'm Asian American and, for the most part, the image that Western males are given of Asian women is of the servile sex object.

I've had male friends tell me how they've always wanted to date an Asian girl because we're supposedly so tolerant, easy to get along with, and good in bed.

This kind of crap makes me sick to my stomach and led me to distrust men for most of my dating life--constantly wondering, "Are you one of those people who just like Asians, or do you actually like ME?" Ugh.

Xana: Yeah, I think the LBH label is fairly common amongst the ex-pat and esl communities. I'm sure you're familiar with the other names we have for those guys too.

Things are changing pretty quick around here and a lot of those changes are being fueled by the women here -- this is still a very sexist society, but it's changing. Of course if someone is looking for a trophy wife, he can find one here, but he can find one anywhere else for that matter. But if they think the typical Vietnamese woman is docile and compliant, they're in for a big surprise.

hi samhita,

i wonder sometimes whether it is even worth addressing or linking to these sites, which are marginal voices that reasonably intelligent people are unlikely to find or actually give credit to. i am *not* saying that fetishes and stereotypes are not extremely disturbing and important to discuss. yes - MANY men hold these or similar beliefs, and our society feeds them. but then wouldn't it be more productive to point out more mainstream examples of this phenomenon - ones that will give people pause, as opposed to ones that people find so ridiculous that they click away and never consider the other manifestations?

you deliberately didn't do this, i know - but i get frustrated when i see point-by-point rebuttals of articles on townhall.com, for example. that's a far more widely-read site than this one - but is that even worth our time and energy?

would love to hear what others think.

Once when I told an acquaintance that his creepy rants about how Asian women are supposedly sooo great in the sack, he actually got all confused and asked me,

"Why do you mind so much? It's like a compliment. You should be glad people think that."

Grrrrr.... Can you tell this brought up some hard feelings?

Once when I told an acquaintance that his creepy rants about how Asian women are supposedly sooo great in the sack is, idunno, NOT so cool, he actually got all confused and asked me,

"Why do you mind so much? It's like a compliment. You should be glad people think that."

Grrrrr.... Can you tell this brought up some hard feelings?

[ps. i know that you have thought about this question - i noticed you say "i shouldn't give this any light" or "credence", but wanted to add my hesitation to the mix. the point that fetishes fall through the cracks in discussions of racism is right-on; i want to hear more about that, not read some cut-and-paste commentary from nomarriage.com!]

As someone who married a Vietnamese woman, I can personally attest that she did not fit any of the Asian stereotypes offered in this tripe. I was amazed at how many people (supposedly enlightened) supported these stereotypes, even (somewhat freshingly) other Asians. This is just another example of the damage that happens when people are objectified.

Feliza: I can't fully imagine what it's like to wonder all the time whether someone is dating you because of you or because you're Asian, but I can understand a little from my time living abroad. It was sometimes a wonder of "Are they dating me because I'm me or because I'm America/speak English/they have some stereotype American women are easy/etc."

I'm actually working on some essays where I'm focusing on the feminist movement in Asia, primarily in Japan, and am including some focus on the stereotypes that some people have of women from Japan. I really don't think recent films (ex. The Last Samurai) have helped distill any stereotypes either.

Feliza--it makes me feel better too, so trust me, you're not alone in wondering "Does this person I'm dating like ME or the person he thinks I am". I've dated at least two guys whom I believe only wanted to date me because I am "exotic", and it's pretty sickening to find that shit out.

Also, the whole "it's a compliment" thing baffles me. Of course, everyone likes to think that he/she has mad skillz in the bedroom. But to be defined by that? No thank you.

There's an old movie called Quemada! starring Marlon Brando. He has an argument against marriage based on economical reasons. Basically, he says its too expensive to house and feed a wife, whereas a hooker is only paid for services rendered. Its actually an argument against slavery (why house and feed slaves when you could just pay them for the hours they work?).

*laugh* I would never marry a Vietnamese woman after teaching in an all-Asian school for a year.

Stereotypes just suck... I'm stating the obvious here, of course.

Speaking of the "easy American woman" stereotype, I actually had the distinct pleasure (read: horrible experience) of watching a Mexican TV show that interviewed local men during Spring Break in Cabo San Lucas and Cancun. Just terrible--how the American girls are so drunk and sleazy you can get away with anything. Also, how easy it is to get one in bed.

I wish more Spring Breakers knew that they were going to be treated and/or perceived this way.

It's the same stuff you'll find on those mail order bride sites. Trying to get American men to marry Asian women. It's both very racist and sexist.

Ladies, ladies.

We really should be ENCOURAGING these men to marry foreign women. Marry them, make them citizens, give them all the same rights as American women...

So after a couple years they can divorce their asses and get half their money! Bwahahahaha!

You know, if these men really are searching for idealized, subservient lotus blossoms, they should follow the example set by the protagonist of M Butterfly.

her sense of entitlement
Referring, presumably, to her belief that she's entitled to be treated as a human being and an equal. The nerve of her!

This would be laughable if it wasn't so fucking racist. It's classic "the grass is greener" thinking--whatever someone else is or has just has to be so much better/cooler/more exotic than what you are or have. Or rather, it appears that way to you because you're ignorant of the reality of their situation.

It amazes me that anyone actually believes this crap.

Gah, I HATE these sites so much.

Does anyone else feel kind of drawn back to them though? I discovered the whole awful mra thing only a few months ago and since then, I find myself searching out and reading them and letting them upset me. Has anyone else done this? I would really appreciate being snapped out of it. I KNOW they aren't worth my time or energy, and that they have no real bearing on wider society, but I still can't let them go. I just want to go and argue with them, but I know it would only waste my time and frustrate me. GAH! Anyone else unable to let go of them?

I really don't understand the logic here. A lot of these women grew up in severe poverty, political instability, war zones, or their aftermaths. (Obviously, this is a generalization, but I think my point remains valid, because this stereotype dates back to the Vietnamese and Korean Wars, doesn't it?)

Most of us North Americans would likely shrivel up and die if we had to deal with anything remotely as difficult as that. What makes these men think that a woman tough enough to survive all of that is going to just roll over and accept shitty treatment from some overgrown white boy who thinks that Asian women are delicate, breakable creatures? They're out of their league, and their minds.

My dad's got a coworker like this; he would hit on female Asian servers at restaurants all the time, telling the other guys at the table about how much better Asian women were than Americans for marriage. I hear that he's learned his lesson -- sort of, heh -- and is now moving on ... to obsessing over weird ideals of *Russian* women.

Ha! these LBH are ALL OVER China. I lived there for 2 years and my friends and I would always wonder how these guys who no girl back home would touch with a 10 foot pole (needy, whiny, unintelligent) would be dating beautiful intelligent women. (Usually significantly younger) To add insult, Chinese guys tend to think American women are easy. The stereotypes are unbelievable- everyone kept asking how many guns I own and if I do drugs. (I suppose I shouldn't feel too bad, they asked my German friend if she had beer on draft in her house :) ) I went to a business dinner with an associate at the school I was teaching at and when he made a most unwelcome move and I vehemently protested, his response was "wow, why are you acting so Chinese?" ARGHHHH! There is a blog dedicated to assholery of the men living in China: http://chinadirt.blogspot.com/ check it out, it is AWESOME :)

A few months ago my friend from South Korea came to visit me, and she had the most horrendous time with men -- it wasn't her first time in the U.S., and as somebody said earlier, most Asian women are very aware of how white Western men view them. Consequently, she says she'll never date a white man because of how they treat her and other Asian women.

In fact, she even had a run-in with a nasty white fetishist guy when me, her and two other friends left a club and were on our way home. Some drunk-ass white guy came up to me and her and leered disgustingly at her (which happened all too often to her while she was here). He then blocked our path and said, "Japanese, eh?" I put my arm around her and snapped rather uselessly, "She's not Japanese," and tried to walk around him. As we walked by, Asshole said "I've never had an Asian before." Suddenly, from behind us, my friend Katie (not her real name) yelled, "And with that attitude, you never will!!!" Well, Asshole of the Month then turned around and looked at Katie, who could be best described as short, cute and plump, and snapped something about her being "pregnant with swollen ankles," and started walking away, but Katie screamed at his back, "YES, yes I AM pregnant, and thank GOD you're not the father!!!" He pretended not to hear, although he was clearly still within hearing range. I'm kind of hoping that he hasn't been able to get it up since that little exchange. (That is, if he ever could...)

Of course, this is also the perfect time to plug Big Bad Chinese Mama.

" I've also heard that some Korean and Japanese men often deliberately refuse to date women in their own country, and instead go to southeast Asia, because female citizens of their countries are 'too liberated.' :("

Now that vaguely reminds me of these articles:

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2002/02/20020214p2g00m0dm998000c.html

"...'Japanese men make fun of genuine affection and love, but that's what women want the most,' a 23-year-old who's married to a Chinese.

"Fed up with relationship-phobic Japanese men, women in their 20s and 30s are tying the knot with other Asian men..."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/30/AR2006083002985.html

"Thin and gorgeous in a slinky black dress, Mikimoto pearls and a low-slung diamond Tiffany pendant, 26-year-old Kazumi Yoshimura already has looks, cash and accessories. There's only one more thing this single Japanese woman says she needs to find eternal bliss -- a Korean man.

"She may just have to take a number and get in line..."

I don't want a man who doesn't want a strong woman. I'm looking for an alpha male who not only wouldn't mind a strong, intelligent woman, but REQUIRES that in a girlfriend or wife.

Let the losers find foreign women - it removes the flotsam and jetsam from the dating field. ;) If they get more than they bargained for when Japanese or Thai women aren't the wallflowers they thought, well, karma's a bitch.

I used to be blonde. (I'm now a redhead.) Trust me, men will fetishise anything. I really feel for women who have to deal with this - it sucked being on the very mild end of blonde fetishes (or, currently, a conservative woman fetish)... I cannot imagine being on the end of a subservient-woman fetish.

Men who think like that are considering women to be interchangeable - that we have nothing, as individuals, to offer a husband that he could not find elsewhere. It's dehumanising and takes away the best of us. (Again, denying rights or dignity to one group often has repercussions that make the rest of the world a worse place to live.)

"Men who think like that are considering women to be interchangeable - that we have nothing, as individuals, to offer a husband that he could not find elsewhere. It's dehumanising and takes away the best of us."

Very well put, oenophile. I am studying this area of the use of the Internet to find (discover?) women of certain traits. These traits are mostly false but as American men are exposed to these messages, it devalues ALL women, including the ones next door and those whom they may work with in an office.

"Men who think like that are considering women to be interchangeable - that we have nothing, as individuals, to offer a husband that he could not find elsewhere. It's dehumanising and takes away the best of us."

Very well put, oenophile. I am studying this area of the use of the Internet to find (discover?) women of certain traits. These traits are mostly false but as American men are exposed to these messages, it devalues ALL women, including the ones next door and those whom they may work with in an office.

"Men who think like that are considering women to be interchangeable - that we have nothing, as individuals, to offer a husband that he could not find elsewhere. It's dehumanising and takes away the best of us."

Very well put, oenophile. I am studying this area of the use of the Internet to find (discover?) women of certain traits. These traits are mostly false but as American men are exposed to these messages, it devalues ALL women, including the ones next door and those whom they may work with in an office.

oops. please remove the extra 2 posts

Dinogirl, I feel your pain!
I've never sought out MRA websites, but I used to spend a lot of time in pro-life MySpace groups. I'd obsess over debates that happened in there. I had to quit cold turkey because I was neglecting my responsibilities at work!

This is the supreme gem among them all. Although it is populated by a bunch of radicals, its main topic is very serious.

http://www.online-dating-rights.com/index.php

Just on the whole faulty stereotype thread. One of my best friends in Korean and is far from a subservient meek woman, although I won't diss her by discounting the good in bad rumor ;)
Sometimes i tease her when she talks about fights her and her fiancce have and I'm like "wait, aren't you supposed to be meek and shit"
she laughs and says if you ask korean men they will say that nothing is scarier than a korean woman when you piss her off :)

Apart from the obvious anger and disgust that that website inspires, I also feel scorn and pity. (hey, I've hit the emotional jackpot!)
The dood is obviously seriously messed up.
I bet he would love to know about all the attention he's getting from us right now. He is a sad, lonely little man.

Actually I am an Asiophile, and have been happily married to an authentic Asian woman for over 7 years now. I never was interested in "white girls," but I had a taste for Asian women for reasons other than what the cavemen of "no marriage" suggested. I love Asian food cooking abilities, slightly darker skin, alluring eyes, modest personalities, and high levels of creativity in women, and Asian women (particularly from Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan) fit that bill perfectly. And of course there are my kids; god they are beautiful (in the non-pedophile sense).

Most of my male coworkers are also married to authentic Asian women, though probably for the reasons that "no marriage" suggested.

But the point is there is nothing wrong in finding happiness with the woman of your dreams. I found my happiness, so I find your remark about "Asian fetish" a little insulting (but I will admit I do have an Asian fetish).

Actually I am an Asiophile, and have been happily married to an authentic Asian woman for over 7 years now. I never was interested in "white girls," but I had a taste for Asian women for reasons other than what the cavemen of "no marriage" suggested. I love Asian food cooking abilities, slightly darker skin, alluring eyes, modest personalities, and high levels of creativity in women, and Asian women (particularly from Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan) fit that bill perfectly. And of course there are my kids; god they are beautiful (in the non-pedophile sense).

Most of my male coworkers are also married to authentic Asian women, though probably for the reasons that "no marriage" suggested.

But the point is there is nothing wrong in finding happiness with the woman of your dreams. I found my happiness, so I find your remark about "Asian fetish" a little insulting (but I will admit I do have an Asian fetish).

Itazura - glad to hear she's "authentic"!
You wouldn't want to marry one of those faux Asian chicks everyone's flogging these days!

The "I had a taste for Asian women.." bit creeps me the fuck out. You say you are offended that people judge your Asian fetish, but have you considered how offensive it is for the women you fetishize? Especially when you include a stereotypical "modest personality" as one of the things you love about Asian women.. Uugh.

And, I hate to ask this, but what exactly makes one an "authentic" or "inauthentic" Asian woman?

When I said "authentic" I meant that she came from Japan (in fact she still keeps her Japanese citizen). Nothing more. If she had not been authentic I would have said Asian American (like my daughter).

Actually I dated a lot of America Asian women before I moved to Japan, but the accent, and the foreign citizenship was what did it for me.

Does oral sex creep you out manda? That was what I was trying to imply (that I like the taste of Asian women).

Is "modest personality" a bad sterotype?

I really didn't know what term to use. But I like quiet and inteligent women, and the best term I could think of was modest, because I didn't want to imply that Asian women were smarter than American women, which is what I think I just did.

I think modest is bad trait to have, and it not exclusive to Asian women.

I meant to say that I don't think modesty is a bad trait to have

I meant to say that I don't think modesty is a bad trait to have

Ahhh, ok.

Over to you manda, dood is creeping me out now.

Wow! Just. fucking. wow.

I was expecting an interesting response, but that just takes the damn cake. Apparently Asian women (as a group) have a particular "taste" than women from other areas of the world?!? I just don't even know how to respond to that shit.

Yeah, manda, didn't you know? continental Asians have a soy sauce flavour, Indians taste like curry, Britons taste like mutton pies etc etc etc.
I hear American women taste like hot dogs, or pop corn or something...

No, silly, American women taste like apple pie. :P

This also takes the cake. Tooling around that newly discovered site I noted above is this sick piece of poetry that just serves to break women into different imaginary camps -

http://www.online-dating-rights.com/forum/index.php?topic=697.0

DON'T MARRY AMERICAN RADICAL FEMINIST WOMEN by Lestat

I have traveled widely to Europe and Asia and I want to share this well-known observation - American feminist women have a terrible reputation among men around the world. They are widely perceived as obese, selfish, spoiled, boorish and emotionally demanding. They are also considered rather overbearing and hysterical. It's well known amongst expat communities around the world that American feminist women are shunned by men outside of U.S.A.

On the contrary, decent and well-off American men are generally viewed as the "cream of the crop" - highly coveted and desirable.... These gentlemen enjoy a great reputation among foreign ladies who perceive them to be respectful, nurturing, responsible, well-educated and financially secure. In addition, these women believe that American men make great husbands, especially in contrast to native men, who are often disrespectful, abusive and unfaithful.

The problem in this country is that the "best in the world" are often paired up with the "worst in the world".... a complete mismatch. It's like a highschool Prom King dating an ugly, domineering and boorish girl. It's very unlikely this type of relationship will work out. Sadly, this seems to be the case, as the marriages "made in America" have a higher divorce rate (55 to 60 percent) than in the cross-cultural marriages (15 to 20 percent). So why is risk of divorce so much lower when an American gentleman marries a "mail-order bride"? In a nutshell, it's because our Prom King is marrying a Prom Queen, who is beautiful, intelligent, feminine, appreciative and devoted.

A growing number of affluent American men are rejecting American feminist women and going overseas to embrace loverly, young foreign brides. A nearly fourfold increase in foreign women entering the U.S. on fiance(e) visas (over the last 7 years) supports this contention. It's no secret that by pursuing foreign women, men can find much younger, more attractive and devoted partners than what's available at home.

Let me tell you about the relationship between my loverly Russian wife and myself. Despite our 21 year age difference, our relationship is based on mutual love and admiration.... our love is real and valid. Also, our bond is strengthened by our common interests, continual romance and mutual respect for each other. As with most Russian women, my wife is independent and has a strong will. Our relationship is a 50-50 equal partnership. There is no control and no domination.

My experience, as described above, is very typical of most marriages to "mail-order brides" - in contrast to many marriages "made in America", there are no bitchiness or nagging, no hysteria or drama and no belligerant or confrontational behaviors.... only mutual love and admiration.

Therefore...., when a decent and affluent American gentleman marries a young, lovely foreign bride, what's created is truly, a match made in heaven - the best matched with the best.... And IMBRA is really a vindictive and scornful feminist response to growing international romance.

*****

I want to inform modern American feminists of this new reality: most American men do not want you. They do not want to date you and they certainly do not want to marry you. Do you know why? Because any relationships with you pose too much legal and financial risks to American men. The enormous risks of divorce and financial insolvency that men face when they marry you is no longer justified by paltry (often minimum) rewards that you bring to a marriage. Thus, you are being scorned and ignored by a growing number of affluent American men who prefer more feminine and traditional foreign women who offer youth, beauty and loyalty, the qualities you lack. These men realize that by marrying foreign women, they incur lower risk of divorce and greater probability of successful marriage and happiness. Therefore,... many of you will never marry or have children... you will end up like one of your own, Maria Cantwell - old, un-married, completely childless, living with mommy... You need to understand that by depriving and denying your biological instinct to create, love and nurture a family, modern feminism has created a royal road to oblivion that ends with your emptiness, bitterness and despair. Whatever traits or value you carried in your genes will stop with you. No children, no legacy... When you die, you truely die.

A growing number of men now make no apologies for rejecting any modern feminist women. The enormous risks incurred in marrying an American feminist are simply not justified by minimal or no rewards that these relationships bring. An American gentleman now has to walk through a minefield of risks including false abuse claims, financial bankrupcy (from divorce), and denial of child visitation rights. Thus, any intelligent and self-respecting man would reject this modern feminist paradigm of marriage.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that?

Actually every woman has her own unique taste, and I have never met one that tasted bad. Sorry I didn't mean to offend to anyone. But I doubt I will ever go down on any other woman other than an Asian women (my wife) ever again.

I mean about the apple pie flavour!

Wow, Peachtree, that's pretty special.
Who is Maria Cantwell?

Maria Cantwell is a Senator, from WA I think

Maria Cantwell is a senator from Washington State.

The original subject of this post, that site, is maybe humorous but the implications of American men / Thirld World foreign women as a subject is worth studying. It seems, from just looking around the Internet, that foreign women are being used as tools among certain (and maybe growing) groups of men to undermine/trivialize feminist-based accomplishments. Its difficult to determine at this point what the long-term ramifications are.

Thanks both of you. (I am not an American, so I don't always get the references)

I just read more of the thread it comes from.
*bursts into song*
"I feel icky,
oh so icky,
I feel icky,
and sticky and gross!!!"

Also my opinion that Asian people (both men and women) are more intelligent than Americans is based not on genetics (note that I said Americans not white people), but on the fact that Asian nations such as Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Malaysia, and Hong Kong (all the Asian nations I have been to) have much better educational systems than what we have here in America, so much so that I probably will raise my kids in Japan.

I never understood why Americans (for the most part) hate to cook, where as in Asian cultures cooking is a form of romance. The best date a Japanese couple could have it to go home and cook dinner for each other.

And the whole shoe thing in the house is just disgusting. Why do Americans track dog shit into their homes?

Sarah, I know, I've done the pro-life sites thing too. And I still often check Ladies Against Feminism. It's partly when you get a real doozie, like in Samhita's post - it's like, a nice feeling to read something so stupid, because you're reminded how totally ridiculous anti-feminist positions truly are. And it's interesting to get a window on how other people view the world - it can help give ideas for how some can be persuaded.

But the MRA sites are completely MAD, and most of them are just vehicles for their author's delusions and persecution complexes (if it wasn't anti-feminism, it would be white supremacism or something equally vile). There's no changing their minds, and there's nothing to be gained from looking at them. I fear cold turkey is the only way for me too! Thanks for reassuring me it's not just me reading stuff like this and banging my head against the screen!

You are right, peachtree. While I have no problem with inter-ethnic/national whatever couples, the whole sphere of sex tourism and related issues like mail-order brides is pretty fucking scary.
It is important to remember that women indeveloping countries have their own agency, and will make decisions based on what is best for them, but it's hard to see it as a level playing field when your choices are indentured poverty or the possibilties offered by a Green Card.

dinogirl + sarahmc,

my partner's favourite internet sites are rightwing blogs.
He loves to go on them and read the craziness, then post innocent-sounding stupid questions, and let the good times roll! I guess you could say he trolls wingnuts, but in a pretty subtle way.
I've told him he is very naughty, but he gets a kick out of it, and he still reads the good progressive/feminist sites too, so it's really a balanced diet!
I guess the rule of thumb should be: if it's giving you a stomach ulcer, it's time to stop.

My wife has a green card, but she doesn't need it for work, because she doesn't work in America. But I would like to think that she married me for my personality and humor, at least that what she told me when she agreed to married to marry me.

I wasn't refering to you and your wife, Itazura.

Obviously you can tell she didn't marry me for my immaculate writting abilities.

We may be confusing individual Asian cultures for all Asian cultures. I wish we could obtain a comment from a Vietnamese mail order bride.

Right, Itazura, if you read my comment again you'll see I refered to women from developing countries.
Last time I checked, Japan didn't fit that description.

I have now misspelled referred twice.
I am just posting this to show I can spell referred. See? REFERRED!

DON'T MARRY AMERICAN RADICAL FEMINIST WOMEN by Lestat
Note to self: DON'T MARRY INSECURE FANBOYS!
*dinogirl: I go through phases like that where I randomly check out the webpages of groups I hate. I used to read the "Conservative Women" group on Myspace. It was so sad, all ranting about unisex bathrooms.
*ponies and rainbows: I love Big Bad Chinese Mama! Too bad it hasn't been updated in a bit...

Anorak do you know any mail order brides from a developing Asian nation?

I had thought mail order brides was more of a problem in NZ and Australia than it was in America.

Anorak, these websites that promote the notion of foreign women as "goodwife" vs "bad american woman" are a magnet for perhaps many men. That is, I think it is reaching a more mainstream American male market. Its not too crazy to think that this message could cause men to disrespect women in general and especially feminist-based social constructs that have been guiding men toward a more feminist way of thinking.

Actually all the mail order brides from developing nations I have met, are the toughest women I know (though none of them consider themselves feminist), so maybe conservative desperate men bringing them to this country is actually a good thing for feminism.

Peachtree - I see your point. I guess I hope that doesn't happen, if you were a slightly insecure man to start off with, and you hear that bullshit enough times, you might start to believe it...

Itazura, I don't know any "mail-order" brides personally, and I think it's interesting you think of it as something that happens more often in my geographical neighbourhood, I really don't know if it is or isn't, but I'm interested in how you came to that conclusion...
I do know personally a guy who lived in the Philipines for a year and had many offers of marriage, and dated a woman there, who, judging from the photos, would be "out of his league" back here.

I work/socialize with asian people every day!!! (including my WONDERFUL asian boyfriend) Let me tell you a few things...

My direct supervisor is Viet, and she is anything but subservant. She knows how things go and isn't afraid to tell the men under her that they are wrong.

next: "she laughs and says if you ask korean men they will say that nothing is scarier than a korean woman when you piss her off :)"

I know quite a bit about Korean and Chinese culture. This statement is so true! Modern Korean women are running the show! Their sons fear even going pee w/o their permission!!! This continues until his wife (of mother's choosing!) takes over for her. Feminism is rising in the east!

Finally, because I KNOW men like this...these things from that website are all things my daughter's father tried to use against me. He thought I had 'princess syndrome' and that I was going to fill my daughter's head w/ my superiority crap. You know...there is a reason i never married him! And if I DO fill her head with the "crap" that she is equal, and entitled to be heard and respected...then great!

I am not in my wife's league here or there (Japan).

I know absolutely nothing about NZ, and only a little bit about Sydney and Brisbane (having visited both of those cities). But I reading something about mail order brides being common in NZ and Australia, but I can't remember where. Though it make sense because Australia and NZ are so close to the more under developed parts of Asia.

If it is not more common in NZ, please accept my apology.

Though what do you think of my comment that mail order brides are actually good for feminism?

"Feminism is rising in the east!"

Very very true, and you only have to watch Asian movies and TV dramas to get a sense of the rising feminism (Especially Korean) in the East. In Singapore a man has to leave the bar or club if a women disproves of him, in Taiwan a high percentage of women don't change their names after marriage, in South Korea and in Japan the number of female college grads is starting to over take the number of male grads. But I think it all has to do with the fact that native (I acknowledge that authentic was a terrible term to use) Asian men show more respect to women than American men do.

Did you notice he has that "Marriage contract" guy (click my link) on there giving him an online high five as something he at least figured out keeping them bitches in line.

The marriage contract guy that is also on trail for child molestation. Quite the hero.

Ouyangdan, sounds like you "dodged a bullet" by not marrying your daughter's father!
Good one!

Itazura, I really don't think the mail-order bride phenomenon aids the feminist cause.

And Niobe, I hope that sick fucko rots in jail for the rest of his life.
I don't know if that's fair, but he makes me physically sick.

"I really don't think the mail-order bride phenomenon aids the feminist cause."

Here's why I think it does.
First it gives economically desperate women from developed nations cash, regrettably for the wrong reasons, but it is still badly needed cash that the woman can use to better her situation. Secondly the desperate usually white conservative husband to be of the mail order wife has become complicit in increasing the percentage of minorities within his mostly Caucasian nation. Aren't recently empowered women from developed nations, and the next generation of the increasing number of minorities likely to support the future feminism cause?

Case in point my family. My wife has become empowered through me. Wait, no, that's not true, all she gets from me that she couldn't get on her own is good orgasms (actually she can get those without me, but she says they are better with me). But still if she becomes a US citizen, she is certain to vote in favor of feminism positions. And my children, who have already felt racism, were supports of Senators Clinton and Obama before I was.

You know beeing a good earner and definetly wanting marriage I preferably want to marry somebody who is not likely to divorce me and take me to the cleaners.
Is your mom divorced ? No marriage for you. Is the divorce rate for your nationality vastly higher than that for lets say Japan or Italy ? No marriage for you eithier.
Is it so wrong for a guy to look for a girl that is more likely to make his life better and less likely to take him to the cleaners ?

Actually I am an Asiophile, and have been happily married to an authentic Asian woman for over 7 years now. I never was interested in "white girls," but I had a taste for Asian women for reasons other than what the cavemen of "no marriage" suggested. I love Asian food cooking abilities, slightly darker skin, alluring eyes, modest personalities, and high levels of creativity in women, and Asian women (particularly from Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan) fit that bill perfectly.

Is "modest personality" a bad sterotype?

Perhaps I'm dredging up a topic that may no longer be relevant in this thread, but I can't help but comment.

Is a "modest personality" a bad stereotype. Well, yes, it is. While modesty is often a positive trait to have, the presumption of modesty (or any other trait) is dangerous because it encourages one to see another person not as the uniquely formed human being that they are, but as a one-dimensional character. It's like coming up to a black female and assuming that she is assertive and good at cooking soul food--not exactly bad traits to have, but unfair to impose upon someone else because of their ethnicity.

Ok, you're an Asiophile. Seemingly in the same way that I'm an Anglophile--certainly no one's going to call me a pervert for liking a British accent.

We all have different traits that we are attracted to. However, this becomes an issue when this attraction to a TRAIT sometimes found in one group of people becomes projected on seemingly every other member of this group.

I think that my husband loves me for most of the same reasons you love your wife--except for the cooking, of course. However, if at any point I had even gotten the slightest whiff that my ethnicity had caused him to ASSUME all these things about me without getting to know me first (creativity, intelligence, etc) then I would have been pretty offended.

Why? Because instead of him loving me for who I am as a person, he'd be loving an IDEA of Asian women which would then embodied in one specific Asian woman (eg, Me.) In this case, one essentially sees their partner as a living a doll which, having been prescribed certain traits from the get-go, cannot fully attain the status of an individual.

Phew, long post. By the way, Itazura, I'm not trying to imply anything about your marriage, relationship, etc.. Seriously. I was only using your comments as a springboard, not as a means of assuming anything about your marriage.

The best date a Japanese couple could have it to go home and cook dinner for each other.

My fella is Japanese, and he frequently prepares elaborate, delicious meals (yes, I realize I am very lucky).

OK, Siamese gets my vote as most entertaining troll of the month. I picture as the Soup Guy in that Seinfeld episode, shouting "No marriage for you!"

"Your father left your mother for his secretary after 15 years of marriage? No marriage for you!"

"You expect to retain autonomy after marrying? No marriage for you!"

Of course, the difference is that in that Seinfeld episode, the soup was actually...good. I find it hard to imagine my American feminist sistren with divorced parents lining up around the block in the hopes of becoming engaged to this silly man.

paranoia paranoia, the stereotypes are coming to get us!

Oh wait, I'm not paranoid, the stereotypes are here!

Gah.

Thanks Feliza

My first comment on this string was meant to be a joke, or kind of like kidding on the sly. My wife is rather modest though (in the quiet intelligent sense), but I discovered that aspect of her character before I fell in love with her.

I see a lot of my coworkers treat their "native" Asian wifes/GFs like living dolls, and yeah your right, it's not a good arrangement because eventually they both end up disappointing each other.

My wife and I are equal partners, and we both give and get mutual happiness (I wish I could get her to comment here) from each other by just being who we really are.

Yeah cooking together (any kind of food) in the kitchen is a very romantic date, and it's cheap to.

Itazura, no, here in New Zealand we don't have a large number of mail order brides, perhaps you should do a little research before making weird claims like that.

You seem to be blindly ignorant as to why people might find what you're saying a little creepy so I'll try and clue you in a little. You've been dealing in stereotypes ("positive" and negative), which most people find upsetting. To add on top of that you've clearly admitted that these stereotypes were one of the main factors in how you chose your wife, people find that kind of planned out searching to be creepy. Finally you've consistently sprinkled your posts with sexual information that no one would disclose in public, leading many of us to believe that you are probably quite uncomfortable speaking to women.

Itazura, no, here in New Zealand we don't have a large number of mail order brides, perhaps you should do a little research before making weird claims like that.

You seem to be blindly ignorant as to why people might find what you're saying a little creepy so I'll try and clue you in a little. You've been dealing in stereotypes ("positive" and negative), which most people find upsetting. To add on top of that you've clearly admitted that these stereotypes were one of the main factors in how you chose your wife, people find that kind of planned out searching to be creepy. Finally you've consistently sprinkled your posts with sexual information that no one would disclose in public, leading many of us to believe that you are probably quite uncomfortable speaking to women.

Yo Michael! Kiwi high five!
Also, WORD.

Michael

You're a little abrasive there buddy.

Do you actually want to me meet?

Anytime Pal.

Ah yes, threats of physical violence.
Against someone on the other side of the world.
Good one.
Also, interesting that they are directed to the only guy who's called you out for your stereotyping. You didn't feel the need to physically threaten me or Peachtree or any of the female commenters here when we disagreed with you.

I was JOKING!!!!

Really?
Sorry, then.

I thought Michael was joking to, considering I wrote in the comment above his that my first comment on this string was meant to be a joke (or kidding on sly).

Also I thought I admitted that knew nothing NZ and only little about Australia, and that the mail order brides in NZ and Australia comment was from thing I read years ago.

Actually now that I think about I did get into a lot fights in Sydney and in Brisbane, but it was all in good fun.

Itazura in the interests of giving you the benefit of the doubt I have to say that your idea of humour is really off. The "satire" you just posted in the Brownback/abortion thread squicked me out so completely I couldn't manage to comment (I hope someone else will give voice to my thoughts more eloquently).

Here's a tip: stop trying to be funny, or witty, or whatever. Stop making glib stereotypical remarks. If you want to debate, please you make your point simply and honestly. Your idea of humour is not cool and your flippant remarks have a hint of troll.

My apologies!

But I can't really argue from the point of a woman.

Still I hope I gave women reason to want to be more pro-choice.

I'm not saying pretend to be a woman, I'm saying stop trying to be clever or whatever and just be HONEST and make your point simply and clearly. It's much more enjoyable for all concerned.

You know, I don't think my previous post was that difficult to understand. I could appreciate you disagreeing with me or whatever, but the misunderstanding what I wrote as suggesting you should pretend you're a woman seems WILLFUL. And that seems troll-like.

"Therefore,... many of you will never marry or have children... you will end up like one of your own, Maria Cantwell - old, un-married, completely childless, living with mommy... "

Methinks this sounds much more appealing than marrying the person that wrote this.

I have resigned myself to such a fate if it is indeed the cost of, you know, dignity and respect and all that stuff that us selfish Western Women demand.

Bornskeptic

I keep looking at your comment, and I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Do you like Senator Cantwell or not? She is a role model to a lot of us, and we love her.

This time I am not making a joke or being satirical.

Wow! I have to take double-offense at this!

First, I am offended by this horrible, racist asshole who puts out crap like this about women.

Second, I have to say I'm mad that you would wrap everything about marriage in this guy's horrible racist rantings. Are you really trying to say that marriage is horrible because guys like this are around spewing hate? That seems really unfair!

I'm a feminist and I'm married. My partner and I have tried to make our marriage about the things that are important to us regardless of society's stereotypes about gender roles. When we had our wedding, we did it DIY and on our own terms. We kept traditions we liked and threw the rest out. And I would argue that anyone can do that.

I don't think that you can say that marriage is about inequality and sexism simply because this one guy has a racist website. That's like saying all feminists are angry lesbians with hairy legs. Everybody knows that's a stupid over-generalization and filled with stereotypes.

I love reading Feministing every day. But please consider thinking twice before you become haters of marriage as a whole. While I do believe it's wrong that same-sex couples don't have the same rights as hetero couples, I've poured my passion into trying to change the laws and systems that oppress them, rather than rail against marriage as a whole.

We can reclaim marriage with a feminist agenda! And those of us who are married don't deserve to be bad-mouthed for our choices anymore than those of us who are child-free by choice or who have had abortions deserve to be bad-mouthed.

Came by here via another site. I abhor the ideology that underlies Asian fetishists' thinking but from my perspective as an Asian male, something comes to mind after reading these posts. If fetishist behaviour is categorized as being racist -- meaning their desires are based on racist perceptions -- then isn't it also racist for non-asian women to, as a group, NOT desire asian men?

Itazura,
The problem with joking on a forum like this is that it's difficult to tell satire from something that is genuinely thoughtless and offensive without having knowledge of the person saying it. For instance, I could joke that I fell for my husband for his swarthy good looks and his commanding presence. If you don't know my husband is pale and geeky that's not much of a joke. As I don't know you, I have to take your comments at face value.

We do get trolls on here so genuinely offensive comments aren't out of the ordinary. Also, some trolls will say something offensive then claim it's just a joke so they don't get called out. We can't tell your comments from theirs on words alone. Furthermore, randomly talking about your sexual...tastes, the numerous mail order brides you know, and your objectifying, fetishizing co-workers really red-flags you as a troll because it's incongruent for someone with such a misogynist social circle and to be posting on a feminist website.

To be clear, I'm not saying you are a troll, or a misogynist, but the sum or your comments is really weird and off-putting. You may be a really progressive guy in real life, I don't know, but the macho, de-humanizing stereotypes you're commenting with are making a bad impression.

Surfed by - Absolutely, thought I'm not sure why you would lump all non-asian women together like that. But yes, if a non-asian woman refused to date any men simply based on stereotypes about asian men, that would indeed be racism. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.

As for the main post itself, I don't know why men with various notions about "foreign" women being more feminine and less demanding don't drop the pretense and get to the point:

Yes, if you find a person who has been abused or oppressed* and offer them less abuse and oppression they will probably be grateful and happy. That way, you can abuse and oppress people and have it seem like they're ok with that. You CAN do it, but it makes you a vile person. Also, if your victim ever realizes it's possible to live with even less abuse and oppression than you're offering, they'll leave you in a hot minute, but hate you for the rest of their lives. Interestingly enough, people with less abuse and oppression aren't willing to suffer your own special brand.

This holds true for women and men both foreign and domestic.

*Which should not be interpreted that all non-Americans are abused or oppressed more. However, I don't think progressive, independent women from first world nations are what these yahoos are talking about.

And yes, Itazura, I agree that women can theoretically better their situation by offering themselves as a mail order bride IF they can get out of a bad situation and use it as a stepping stone to get to a better one when they have no other option. However, while being expected to eat 1 lb. of feces is objectively better than being expected to eat 5 lbs. of feces, neither situation is objectively good. I would not call that feminist option because having to sell yourself to get out of a bad situation does not put you on equal footing as the man that bought you. Less unequal is a long, long way from equality, particularly in the framework of such a massively disproportionate power dynamic.

Sounds like you haven't been here very long, Sin City Siren. Plenty of us are married.

That website made me sad. Not angry, not hysterical, just sad. I felt sick looking at all the anger and hatred that this person (these people?) have arrived at by what looks like years of bad experiences. I truly feel for these men who think that a "foreign" woman is the key to rebuilding their lives which are quite obviously crumbling all around them. Obviously, this sort of stereotyping and racism is awful and we SHOULD protest, but truly, did no one else feel sad?

"I would not call that feminist option because having to sell yourself to get out of a bad situation does not put you on equal footing as the man that bought you."

Actually if the mail order bride obtains US citizenship and the right to vote, then she does put herself on equal footing with the man who "purchased" her marriage vows. The different between sex workers from developing country's and mail order brides from developing countries, is that MOBs can obtain rights through their marriage.

My comment on MOBs from developing countries being good for feminism was based on the long term potential. But in general I think inter-racial marriage (and by extension biracial children) is good for feminism (but I may be wrong, as I have done no formal research on the topic).

All my comments are designed to provoke thought, rather than provide facts. If I imply anything that is wrong, I apologize, and I will quickly admit that I had provided no sources.

"but truly, did no one else feel sad?"

Sad for the men yes, but let forgive them, for they know not what they do.

And lets work with the Mail Order Brides to ensure they get all their rights.

Roni, I mention it because, for the most part, it is the present situation here in North America. As a member of the Asian community, it's a topic that's been discussed to death and accepted as fact. Asian men fall to the bottom for all non-Asian groups when talking about dating, marriage, sex appeal, attractiveness, etc. fyi: http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/single-female-seeking-same-race-male/

What's odd, to me, is the amount of outrage directed at Asian fetishists, coupled with a complete lack of internal examination of our own racist attitudes when it comes to physical attraction. Pot calling the kettle black?

My son's only 7, but he's already got all the girls crazy about him, but he's only half Asian.

Here's a short list of hot Asian Men

Hyun-kyoon Lee; watch the movie "3 iron"

Byung-hun Lee; Watch "addicted"

Tony Leung; Watch "2046", and "In The Mood For Love.

Yôsuke Kubozuka; Watch "Laundry", and "Go".

Kôji Yakusho; too many movies he has been in, but my favorite is "Warm Water Under a Red Bridge".

I'll give more names later.

I don't get it, Surfedby. Nobody's arguing against your point that it is equally unsavory to base a lack of atttraction on racist, stereotypic assumptions as it is to base attraction on those assumptions. Roni agreed with you on that. I agree with you on that. Am I missing something?

Surfed by,
You seem to be making a few assumptions there. I can't speak for the validity of the article you linked. However, assuming that it's accurate, the percentage of women who would avoid dating an asian man on racist assumptions aren't likely to be the same ones commenting on a liberal progressive website. It's not terribly fair-minded to infer I'm a hypocrite for opinions I don't personally hold.

When I was teenager, I covered the majority of my room with Brandon Lee posters, so I'm REALLY not the person to answer your question about women avoiding asian men.

Peepers, no, not missing anything. Roni's post below yours is bang-on. I am in fact making some assumptions and I apologize to those who felt I grouped them all together. Didn't mean to personalize it that way, it certainly wasn't my intent.

Surfedby, I understand it might seem that way but it's like saying, "all American men are only attracted to big boobs, blond hair, and tan skin." Sure, maybe the vociferously dull, dimwitted ones feel this way, but in my particular social circle at the moment I happen to have more non-Asian female friends dating, hooking up with, etc. Asian males than the other way around.

To be fair, it took a long time for any "unconventionally hot" females to be fairly recognized for our awesomeness.

Remember, it's all about quality vs. quantity. :)

Ms. Minty, happy to hear about your social circle, hope the word spreads :)

And trust me, I realize these are attitudes not held by everyone. The reality is that my own dating history only involves non-Asian women...not a choice, just circumstances and the mysteries of 'chemistry'.

I should clarify I'm not using "unconventional" to mean "imperfect" (because clearly race doesn't determine whether or not a guy is hot). I was just trying to draw a parallel to the plight of another group that doesn't get the credit it deserves.

"Furthermore, randomly talking about your sexual...tastes, the numerous mail order brides you know, and your objectifying, fetishizing co-workers really red-flags you as a troll because it's incongruent for someone with such a misogynist social circle and to be posting on a feminist website."

Can I really be held accountable for the people I work with? Note that I did not claim that they were my friends. Had I known what kind of people I would be working with, I would have chosen a different career path. But for now I have to make do with what I got (I have a family to support ya know). Please don't hate me because I know and work with conservative misogynistic men (and I will admit that a lot of them fit that bill).

Oh Surfed, if you're still following, I wanted to mention one more thing on the subject...some of my "western" friends have been treated brutally upon meeting their (Korean, Chinese) boyfriends' moms. Comments about weight and wrinkles and not uncommon. Just sayin, this might have something to do with the whole issue (and yes, the thought I might be meeting my dude's mom at some point also terrifies me slightly).

"If fetishist behaviour is categorized as being racist -- meaning their desires are based on racist perceptions -- then isn't it also racist for non-asian women to, as a group, NOT desire asian men?"

Non-Asian women, as a group, includes lesbians who don't desire Asian men because they don't desire any men.

It also includes many a monogamous straight or bi woman in a couple who doesn't desire Asian men because she just desires the one partner she already has. For example, being thrilled enough with her one Asian husband to not want a whole harem of hunks of his hue. ;)

How about this--take away...the guys with small penises (ANYTHING less than 7 inches is UNACCEPTABLE)

Uh-oh... :)

Seriously, I knew this kind of thing existed in the abstract, but I got to see it personally when an office mate of mine displayed his "preference" in such an unethical way - which I'm not at liberty to divulge except to say that it wasn't criminal - that I just didn't want to be around him anymore.

I changed offices and had an office mate who was an Asian woman and she mentioned she and others she knew had been recipients of his behavior. So he'd been getting around, it seems.

The first time I stated my preference (that I am an Asiophile, with a fetish for anything that is Japanese, Korean, Chinese; movies, comics, art, TV dramas, etc) was in this string. I have had the preference since I was 13 years old ( though in those days it was the accent, long dark silky hair, coffee colored skin, and dainty petite features that made my heart race). But the way you described your coworker and the way he expressed his "preference," it sounds like he was sexually harassing you Linnaeus (and your female coworkers). I have seen a lot of sexual harassment at my work, and I have always put men in their place when I saw them act inappropriate toward women.

I never really thought satirical blog post could be a form of sexual harassment. Sorry about that, if I caused anyone to feel sexually harassed, I deeply apologize.

Itazura, I guess we'll chock it up to having very different senses of humour. Very, very different.

Anorak! Cool that's there are a couple of us from Aotearoa here. Keep fighting the good fight down here! Also, I don't think you should have apologize to Itazura for not getting his "joke" about meeting me. Jokes are usually funny.

I'd just like to state one last time that people should treat other people as individuals, not fetishes. Studying Japanese in university and working as a chef and manager at a sushi restaurant here in Auckland I encounter quite a few people (men and women) who interact with asian cultures on really disturbing, shallow or self-serving levels.

Throughout uni men wouldn't constantly talk about how easy it was to go to Japan and how popular all white guys were there. It was pretty discouraging to be studying a language and be surrounded by people who informed themselves of a culture primarily through anime and manga. The equivalent of wanting to know more about America and reading Marvel comics and watching Disney cartoons, there's might be some good stuff there but it's cursory at best. Mostly it provides people with a skewed version of cultural and gender identities.

Japan has a tendency to popular among "geek culture" which isn't all bad I suppose but unfortunately that has lead to a focus on sex, partially informed by imported media that's not even that popular in Japan and partially informed by stereotypes developed from World War 2 and before. If we all just faced up to our ignorance of each other from the get go we'd probably be a lot better off.

But the way you described your coworker and the way he expressed his "preference," it sounds like he was sexually harassing you Linnaeus (and your female coworkers).

I should clarify, since I phrased my comment rather poorly now that I re-read it. My colleague didn't do anything to me. I saw him interacting with someone else in our shared office; I suspect what was happening was borderline sexual harrassment, but I couldn't tell for sure, if for no other reason than half the conversation took place in Chinese, which I don't speak.

This suspicion of mine was reinforced somewhat by my conversations with my later office mate. Basically, he'd hit on every Asian woman in his academic program. Was that sexual harrassment? Probably not, but his actions were rooted in some stereotypes about Asian women.

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The NoMarriage site that is the original reason for this topic is mentioned in a press release from 2004. The PR was issued about one week before Sen. Maria Cantwell's congressional testimony on the first IMBRA bill. In a bizzare twisted way, there is some sort of connection.

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2004/7/emw138739.htm

Promoters of the INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER REGULATION ACT strategically link international matchmaking organizations with human trafficking rings in effort to gain bipartisan support.

Strategic linking of marriage brokers with human trafficking rings aids in gaining bipartisan support for law intent on eliminating international matchmaking companies and websites.

(PRWEB) July 4, 2004 -- To gain bipartisan support for the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act, we endorse the strategies of (1) using "womens' protection" as the main theme of the law; and (2) claiming that American-based marriage brokers are part of global human trafficking rings, however unfounded.

We also support provisions of the Act that will require brokers to conduct large quantities of consent verifications and background checks before American men can write love letters or make any contact with foreign women. These provisions will make it very difficult for American-based marriage brokers to organize those disgusting overseas introduction "parties" where women outnumber men 100 to 1. These provisions will also drive up costs to the point of putting most brokers out of business. In addition, this law effectively places "warning labels" on American men thus decreasing demand for them among foreign women over time.

Although this law is long overdue (and hopefully not too late), we welcome the Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2003 as a means to regulating the often arrogant and brazen international marriage broker industry. This industry has gone from the fringe to the mainstream. The American male population is now overly exposed to the message that it is acceptable to desire and actually marry women "unspoiled" by American materialism and most troubling, "uninfected" by American feminism. This message may impede the progress of feminism here at home and give American men the idea that it is acceptable to not respect feminist principles that took so long to instill upon them.

The marriage broker websites promulgate the "message" that American men are highly desirable outside the U.S. and can have access to women not intent on upholding over 30 years of hard won womens' rights. These sites also offensively elaborate on the reasons for rejecting American women as part of a campaign to promote the desirablity of foreign women. We find this to be most appalling.

Certainly, the existence of this industry is indicative of the sad state of romantic relationships between men and women in North America; however, it by no means should be allowed to continue unregulated. Sites such as www.americanwomensuck.com and www.nomarriage.com are problematic enough.

"Actually if the mail order bride obtains US citizenship and the right to vote, then she does put herself on equal footing with the man who 'purchased' her marriage vows."

OTOH, how easy or difficult would it be for her to apply for citizenship. How easy or difficult would it be for her husband and her family to keep her isolated?

I mean, I've heard of some cases where imported brides were isolated from local customs and freedoms even after being brought to the West.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04berlin.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5090&en=2a16b54522cbc21d&ex=1291352400

"...According to Necla Kelek's research, they are mostly under-age girls who have been bought - often for a handsome payment - in the Turkish heartland villages of Anatolia by mothers whose sons in Germany are ready to marry. The girls are then flown to Germany, and 'with every new imported bride,' Kelek says, 'the parallel society grows.' Meanwhile, Ates summarizes, 'Turkish men who wish to marry and live by Shariah can do so with far less impediment in Berlin than in Istanbul.'..."

Not to mention the financial situation, Mina. I bet financial equality would be difficult to obtain as a MOB.

Just to be perfectly clear. I think marriage brokers and sex worker trafficers should be convicted of crimes against humanity, and thrown in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prisons for a long time.

And if any desperate white men want native born Asian wives or girlfriends, then I recommend you go about getting one the way I did. Get a job that sends you to an Asian nation, date Asian women there, find one you like, establish a relationship with her that last for at least a year or 2 (or more), make an effort to learn her language, and then ask her to spend the rest of her life with you.

It worked for me, and I am pretty sure it will work for anyone else.

I'm not sure if Itazura's Japanese comment was actually written by his wife or not. "My husband is not a geek. Please be nice to him."

I guess the only difference it makes is whether it's cringworthy or eye-roll-inducing.

Mail Order Brides and such are wrong because it hurts people who are actually in love and trying to immigrate into a new country. There are people who work incredibly hard to immigrate to other countries, obtaining qualifications that are needed and waiting long periods of time to immigrate. When someone skips ahead under false pretenses of a relationship they take a place of someone who actually is qualified to obtain citizenship.

Finally: "if desperate white men want native born Asian wives or girlfriends", then I recommend you reassess your priorities and attitudes towards human beings. Work on improving yourself and develop an ounce of self-awareness. Eventually you'll find someone who will surprise you and your relationship will be better off because you didn't search your partner out based upon some pre-held conceptions of beauty and race.