I didn't take my husband's last name. This drives my grandfather crazy, and my husband's family doesn't even ~know~, which drives ME crazy.

I do have a few friends who have kept their own names, though they tend to be less confident in it than perhaps they ought.

I would like to alternate the last names for our (future) children. In familial baby's-last-name matters, my brother's wife gave their baby his name, and they weren't married at the time (though, her family was abusive, and she later abandoned her 'maiden' name gladly)- the hospital didn't bat an eye. My uncle's girlfriend gave their baby his last name, and they have no marriage plans ever.

I kept my name because it's not broken.

I don't need to obliterate my own identity, name-wise, to feel 'married'.

The man I married has a daughter who took her stepfather's last name when her mother remarried, so now the three of us have different last names, and yet we all manage to function as a family. Amazing.

My boyfriend and I have been caught up in the Great Name Debate for awhile now - it's about the one Big Issue we still have to resolve before moving past boy/girlfriend status. He doesn't want to give up his last name (and he has thought about it, so it's not just a knee-jerk "that's not how it's done" reaction) while I have no particularly strong ties to my last name but don't want to just blithely take on his when we marry. We considered just keeping each of our individual names, but we're not sure how it'd work out when it comes to giving kids last names. We considered just changing both of our names completely and now we're looking at hyphenation, even though I don't think our names sound particularly great together. In short: it's a mess.

More relevant to the actual article, I saw a speech earlier this year on the sexism in name-change applications. Apparently many states have a relatively easy paper work process for women changing their surnames (I think it's basically present a marriage license and you're good to go), whereas for men they have to actually go to court and maybe even have special paperwork drafted. Aside from taking ages longer for men to change their names than for women, it's also a hell of a lot more expensive!

I kept my name, and I'm thrilled with that choice. Some family members and "friends" are not so thrilled, and some of them are big enough assholes to always insist on addressing things to Cara My-Husband's-Last-Name. It pisses me off because it's incredibly disrespectful. I don't insist on calling them by their "maiden" names, you know?

Anyway, I'm glad to see that they've done this, though I certainly don't agree with the idea that we no longer live in a patriarchal society. That's just wishful thinking.

It's worse than that, Jessica: What name a child carries, and who named him or her, is actually apparently relevant in child custody cases. Even though it's not written down anywhere, the first question asked me by the Friend of the Court investigator, the mediator, and the judge was always, "What's the child's name?" (My son has my last name) and "Who named him?" (I chose his name). Some have speculated that that indicates the nature of the relationship between the parents or the expected relationship at the time of the child's birth. (I now have full custody.) I know one single mother in Canada who couldn't get child support until she paid the fee to have her child's last name changed to the father's.

My parents both kept their own names when they got married; my mom is a feminist, and I think that she got frustrated at losing track of so many of her friends when they got married and thus basically disappeared from the record - by name, anyway. When I was born, I was given a combination of my parents' last names - an invented name, in other words. Family pressure (mostly from my maternal grandmother) about the supposed impact on me later of three names in the household caused my parents to change their names to match mine. Thus my parents, my son, and I are the only Burstrems in the world. And I was the first to carry that name. I'm married now, but I've kept my last name, purportedly to continue matching my son's name, but also because I've published under it. But really, I think that I wouldn't want to change it anyway. Names are so much about identity that to me it feels that a wife taking a husband's name on marriage means that his identity doesn't change but hers does - and often that is how decisions are made from then on as well. Words are more powerful in their impact like that than many people think.

Now that I'm married, my experience with our names has been ridiculous. Most people here in the Southwest (and in my husband's family) assume that I changed my name and simply address me by my husband's last name. Some have not even known that it was possible to get married without automatically changing your name. No, you automatically keep your name UNLESS you change it - and as you said, that's a lot of work! I enjoy telling random callers that there is no one with the name "Mrs. Clinefelter" here, but I am Mr. Clinefelter's wife. "Of course," they respond nervously. When I contacted an estate lawyer and attended a financial planning workshop and then brought my husband there with me, the form that they gave us to fill out assumed that the contact person is always the husband and the spouse tagging along is always the wife. Then after I made the necessary corrections to that form, our mail thereafter put his name first and addressed him more than it did me. I called them to complain, and at first the woman who answered the phone explained that that's just how their software works - presumably to keep from offending all of the patriarchs out there. I pointed out that their software was rather offensive. One of the senior White male lawyers called me later to apologize, but he didn't indicate that there would be any change. (They were incredibly ageist as well, failing to greet me at the door of this workshop as they did with all of the others in attendance when I came alone before my husband and son arrived. They shook his hand and introduced themselves when he came in, though. He is fifteen years older than me, but I am often mistaken for being as much as nine years younger than I am, which would make me a minor. On the other hand, maybe that is sexism too.)

Then when we bought a house together, his name ended up on the "home buyer" and "homeowner" blanks, and mine was always listed as the "co-buyer" - or omitted altogether, as is often the case with our mail. He is usually good about pointing out the problem when he deals with these people; for instance, when we inspected the house, only one person's initials and signature were necessary on the form. He insisted on leaving room for mine as well on the same lines, though.

My mom has had the same experience for years. Once, when she invested her own money with a financial planner, the man put my dad's name on the account even though he had never been involved with the investment! Even worse, when her doctor realized that she was going to lose her baby (my older sister), instead of telling her right there at the office, he called my dad and told him. That was less than thirty years ago.

"It’s hard to believe that most young women secretly harbor these radical ideas..." [Kasic on the idea of *gasp* hyphenating a last name] if this is her idea of radical... i may just change my name to fish face. (uncapitalized, even.)

i won't even delve into the fact that queers are absolutely invisible regarding this issue due to the fact that they can't even get married to change (or not change) surnames. i'm not versed enough to get into same sex adoption issues, does anyone know how that works in the courts? i'll have to research...

At least The DC City Council rapidly realized their error and moved to correct it.

I was really beside myself when I got married as to whether or not to change my name. I like the notion of being "The Whatevers" but as freelance artist I wanted to keep my name professionally to hang on the tiny amount of name recognition I do have. My husband really strongly identifies by his last name, to the point that it's in all his screen names, emails, nicknames and what have yous, so changing it was not a popular suggestion. Hyphenating was out of the question because that would create an unpronounceable five syllable trainwreck full of accent marks and random capital letters.

I ended up taking his last name in addition to mine and using them personally vs. professionally. Which is admittedly confusing and I've been rather lax about changing my paperwork.

I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of people that asked what I decided to do rather than just assume I would take his last name.

I took my husband's name, but I'd like to hold onto my feminist card, if I can, please.

My maiden name was gawdawful. It was the sort of name that, when combined with my body type, turned into a hurtful playground taunt that followed me all the way through college and into the professional world. My identity with that name was tied up in being lonely, shunned and miserable.

My husband's name is just awesome, which made the decision easier. It's also not that old of a name. His father made the choice as a young adult to change his name from the abusive father's name to the name of the adoptive stepfather who cared for him and loved him. That name was passed onto his son, and, like I said, it's awesome. I am honored to have it as my name, too.

My parents understand. My mother goes by her maiden name professionally for the same reason, and I think my dad's relieved the surname will die with him.

All that said, when we were filling out our license, the State of Hawaii gave us a choice of what our last name would be -- his last name, my last name, a hyphen, or a combination of our first or middle names, which cracked us up. ("Dear, the Elizabeth-Craigs are here.") It was non-biased, and I applaud the state for that.

Our home state, on the other hand, requires a husband go through a legal name change if he wants to hyphenate or take his wife's name. I've been leaning on my state rep to correct this. We'll see.

Hadn't thought about this one too much, cause I don't have a special someone right now. But it is something that's absolutely worth considering. I've met couples that didn't change their last name and made their family units work. The women I've known who didn't change their last names were just very assertive in letting people know this fact, which is cool. Personally, I'd go for the hyphenation thing for any children that I'd have. I do like the fact of the family sharing names (call me wimpy, but that's where I am right now).

Bottom line is, a couple should definitely discuss this way before any rice is thrown.

I cannot tell you how upsetting fighting over the name for our son was for my second husband and me. It was the closest we ever came to getting divorced, and has changed the way I think about his name and my husband's entire family.

Not only is the misogynistic, patriarchal way of naming wives and children a throwback to ownership of wives and children, but the way that even supposed "liberal" people react so violently and nastily to people who don't, even members of their own family, is really painful.

I took my husband's name when we married. Now I'm chomping at the bit for the divorce to be final so I can have my maiden name back. I hate having his name on mine after everything he put me through.

If I ever get married again, I'm most definitely keeping my own name. I'm not changing who I am again for any man.

I've never heard of a couple not being able to give a kid the monther's last name or a hyphenated last name.
My baby was born in Texas (of all places) and no one had a problem with him having my last name, rather than my husbands. Our next child will also have my last name. I'm the one giving birth after all!
Maybe my family just slipped through the system - I don't know! I certainly haven't met anyone else who chose to give the kids the mom's name. Even unmarried couples that I know tend to give the kids the dad's last name.
I have to say: I don't like the practice of hyphenating last names. I wonder what it would be like for my great-grandkids (if I have any) if they had multiple hyphens. It would get really ridiculous after a while.
I prefer it when a couple, who wants the same last name, just invents their own name. More of a hybrid than a hyphen. Or just a completely unrelated, new name.
Also, I STILL get mail addressed to Mrs. Husbands' First and Last Name. It drives me nuts. Even if we had the same last name, we wouldn't have the same first name! Jeez. What an insult!
Lastly, my husband and I did consider having the same last name. In the end, he didn't want to alienate his dad (he's a JR - there's another annoying tradition!) so he decided to keep his own name. I thought about taking his name for a little while. In the end, I'm lazy more than anything. But it was annoying to be pressured by our traditional families as well as our liberal friends (who were offended that I would even think about taking his last name without a hyphan). Frankly, its none of their business.
Sorry for the many typos!

There's also the option of a third, unrelated name. This might piss off family more than any of the above options, but it's probably the most fair--even with hyphenation, someone has to have their name listed first.

I'm in an academic field, so most of my colleagues just keep their own names, so that they don't have to reestablish their own, new, research persona, which obviously makes a lot of sense, obviously.

Of course, this is, once again, an agency issue. We shoudl get to choose what to call ourselves, and everyone has their own motives and reasoning behind their stance in the Great Name Debate. Why the hell should government get involved in the intricacies of what I call myself? Of course, I should be able to determine my own name when I marry.

81%, wow.

I married at 22 and had no career yet to speak of, and still kept my name. A few people raised eyebrows but no one seems to care.

Kids have his last name. I don't feel any less connected to them. I like his name, and hell, the kids' name has to come from somewhere, so why not? I just want my own name, please. (Kids have mine as a middle, and identify with both - no one has ever assumed I was not their mother).

Yes Kimmy, good point. More than half of all marriages end in divorce. Do you know what's worse than having to jump through all the hoops when you change your name when you get married? Having to do it all over again when you break up. Of course, it will never happen to you. (That's what the other 60% of divorcees think, too.)

It must really smart to be called by some asshole's last name by a salesperson or a credit card company, even years after you have divorced. It saddens me how many women keep their MARRIED name after divorce because it is their "identity". But, I don't get in anyone;s face about it, and it is depressing how many people have gotten in mine for my choices not to change my name.

By the way, the method use din many Asian and Latin American countries includes both surnames of the parents, regardless of whether the mother is married or uses her original name. (I hate the term "maiden" name. Like all unmarried women are virgins, please!) The father';s last name goes first, the mother's second, and when the name is written out in full, on legal documents, both names are there, with the mother's surname last. But, in every day life, usually the father's surname is used.

It was very easy for me the first time I had a child, because this is the way my Latin husband and his entire family structured their names. Unfortunately, my second set of in-laws didn't think this was a valid way to name my child, and made it very clear when they called me up and yelled at me, and had a phone tree going to everyone about what a crazy bitch I was. I valued having my children's names structured the same, and they didn't even KNOW that my older son's name was structured like that, legally. Obviously hadn't affected his life much.

This is a huge issue for me and while I don't judge anyone who chooses to change their name I find it very offensive that in this day and age women still do and are still expected to change their identities to that of a man. It disgusts me.
I work at a hospital foundation in Montreal and in Quebec women are always identified by their maiden names for government purposes. So everyday I have to deal with married women complaining that they were solicited by their maiden name and to please change their file to their married name. Of course I respect their wishes and make the change but damn it bugs me. Why do so many women want to be identified in terms of the man they married instead of being identified as who they themselves are?
The kid naming issue also bugs me. My sister gave her son her name and the father (he and my sis are not in a relationship) was so upset by this that he actually disowned the child. Can you believe it? He wants nothing to do with his own son just because he doesn't have his name. Disgusting.
One of my strongest childhood memories is my father explaining to my brother and I why he'd always wanted a son rather than a daughter: so the family name could be carried on. Even as a child I was insulted by the idea that I, as a female would not be allowed to carry on my name. I vowed then and there that if I ever had children they would damn well have my name! Now that I'm in a relationship and trying to get pregnant, my partner and I have discussed it and he too is quite loyal to his name. I hate hyphenation (and his name is long) so we compromised and decided that one child would have my name and the other would have his. (my name for a girl and his name for a boy unless we have two of the same sex in which case first born girl gets my name and so on). It's not a perfect compromise because not everyone in the household will have the same name but so what? Blended families are quite common these days so everyone having the same name isn't a given. All I know is that my name is damn important to me (even though it comes from my father and not my mother) and I want to pass it on, so my children will know their mother's identity is just as important as their father's.

OK, I swear this is my last comment. Can you tell this is a trigger issue to me.

Ticky, all due respect, no one said women who don't change their names are not feminists. I get annoyed at people who turn these debates around at make the majority the victim somehow.

I believe it queer rights, for example, and if a conversation comes up here about gay marriage, should I say "Well, I have married hetreosexually twice, can I still keep my feminism card?"

Please.

Uh, the edited version:

OK, I swear this is my last comment. Can you tell this is a trigger issue for me?

Ticky, all due respect, no one said women who don't change their names are not feminists. I get annoyed at people who turn these debates around to make the majority the victim somehow.

I believe it queer rights, for example. If a conversation comes up here about gay marriage, should I say "Well, I have married heterosexually twice, can I still keep my feminism card?"

Please.

(I can overlook one of two typos, but there were too many and I got twitchy. Does that count as another comment? I am clicking off the site now, I promise...)

I'm a male, and I wouldn't change my name at marriage.

Not because of any tradition thing or so forth, but because there is only one other person in Australia with the same surname as me, and that's my father. We really don't need another Jones or Smith.

That being said, if my future wife wouldn't want to change her surname to mine, that would be fine with me aswell.

Well, Hilary, since you brought it up, I have to tell you that I've been jumped on by other feminists as not being feminist enough (or worse, not wanting equal rights) because I took my husband's name. Hence the deprecatory card joke.

(I have also been scolded for marrying when my gay friends cannot, but that's another kettle of fish.)

I'm sorry - my whole problem with this is that we don't get much of a choice. I'm a feminist, and single, but will most likely change my name when/if I marry or have kids with someone (big if!). At the end of the day, all we have is a choice between our father's name or our partner's. Neither of those feel especially like 'mine'. I'd rather have the name of someone I've chosen to spend my life with than that of a parent who was absent for most of my childhood - though neither option really excites me.

I agonized over what to do with name...two years later, my unchanged name has not been a big deal at all. Most people don't care what my name is, and if they call me by the wrong name, they're easily corrected. I've had some problems with forms and joint bills, as Jessica mentioned in her comment above, but these, too, are easily remedied. I agree totally with Jessica V. Taking a husband's name, in most cases, is totally unnecessary, and the societal pressures that many fear of they don't are a lot more minimal than we assume.

I am 22 and I have grown up having a hyphenated last name. My last name isn't hyphenated because of my mother's last name, my father decided to change his last name to represent both his biological father and the father who raised him.
But I am kind of fond of it.
Sure, it's a pain in the ass when I go to fill out things and my last name gets chopped off to something ridiculous. Or when people ask for my last name and think I am not listening and put my first last name as my first name. Or all the horrible misspellings and mispronunciations because people simply do not pay attention.

I don't plan on taking my husband's (whoever he may be) last name. I may do some funky smooshing of names, but name(s) will still be there. I used to dream of having a name with 4 letters instead of 27. Now, I like the 27. Anything shorter wouldn't feel right.

My boyfriend is just as much of a feminist as me, and totally understands why I object to taking a new name upon marriage. My ex-boyfriend never could understand it and always whined, "It's about TRADITION!" or "What, don't you like my last name?" I would respond, "It's a dumb, sexist tradition" or "I have no problem with your last name. Why do you have a problem with mine?"

A few months ago, Marilyn vos Savant, the genius who writes for Parade magazine, touched upon this issue and I liked her response. She said that she believes male babies could carry on their fathers' surnames and female babies could carry on their mothers' surnames so we'd have a tradition that would honor both parents instead of totally ignoring one. I realize that this doesn't apply to same-sex couples, but I thought it was a neat idea.

I'm really undecided on the whole last name change (or not change) for myself, personally. I think if I had a better last name (you know, a prettier one that rolled off the tongue a little better) and was not so terribly unfond of most of my father's family, I would, without a doubt, never change it. If I marry someone with a very pretty sounding last name, I may want to take that. I like that my last name I was born with is somewhat unique. I don't want my last name to be Jones, Smith, Brown, etc. I do not think I'll ever drop my last name though. At the very least, I'd probably hyphenate. I'm not sure.

Anyway, all this babble to say that I think people do and do not change their last names for many reasons, but whatever reason they do or do not change their last names, I think as long as it is what they genuinely want and not something they feel pressured to do, then it is just fine.

Oy. Who needs sleep? Apparently I do.

When she got married, she did take my Dad's family name. But her father started addressing the letters he wrote her to "Mrs. Mark Cook." When she complained, he just stopped writing her at all! Crazy.

I prefer it when a couple, who wants the same last name, just invents their own name. More of a hybrid than a hyphen. Or just a completely unrelated, new name.

This is the direction I'm leaning in currently (not that it's a looming question, as I'm unattached at the moment). I would use my maiden name as an additional middle name (and hope my partner would with his too), so that we could continue to keep our family-of-origin identity, but also then choose a new family name that we would share and give to any children. The hyphen option just seems unwieldy (as people have pointed out) and wouldn't like not sharing a name with some or all of my children and my spouse. And I also don't like the idea of having to choose which family name to carry forward. A new, additional, name seems like a nice way to honor the creation of a new family.

I traded in my Jewish-Germanic last name for my husband's highly anglicized former Romanian name. Keeping my dad's last name never seemed like it would be me a major blow against the patriarchy. My mother's maiden name is my middle name--a tradition that will be carried on with my daughter.

My problem with hyphenated names is this--when two people with hyphenated names marry, do they then combine all four names? Or do they pick two? It just didn't seem like a practical choice for me or my family.

My husband was totally willing to take my last name, but I like his (our) name better.

Thanks to my mother marrying twice, my immediate family includes kids with two different surnames, my brother and I have one name, my half-sister another. (and while my brother's girlfriend lived with us as a member of the family, there were three names). Never had an issue with it. It's much simpler than you think, and no, no one got confused growing up.

Having been married twice, and then there was her maiden name, my mother decided to use the same surname as my little sister, so she wouldn't be "outnumbered." So there are now two 'Smiths' and two 'Jones' in the household.

Personally, I can't imagine taking my husband's name. Not unless there was some sort of mutual transformation of names. Though I don't like my current last name, it just never clicked with me. I've considered taking my mother's maiden name, or the maiden name of one of my female ancestors, but they're Eastern European, and the names are all a horrendous collision of consonants, with hardly a vowel in sight.

I kept my name after getting married; it felt like a natural thing to do. I mean, there was no real debate about it between now-my-husband and I--it was he who actually brought it up saying "You will be keeping your name, right?". Right. My family was fine with it, nobody really said anything. His family probably thinks I'm weird, but they don't say anything out loud. And some of my friends use both of our last names when mailing me stuff. I don't mind that at all.

And that's a great thing that they're changing the marriage licenses. Where I come from in Europe, it has been practice all along.

I especially abhor the whole "Mr. and Mrs. Husband's-last-name" deal. Does getting married mean losing your name altogether? I made sure that the justice of peace who married us didn't use "I present to you Mr. and Mrs. xxxx" at the end of our ceremony, but the envelope with our official marriage certificate still arrived addressed this way. Argh.

It does take some work to change things for the better, but this is your legacy to the next generation. Used to be that women couldn't wear pants or use Ms. Do you think it was easy for them to upset the grandfathers and husbands, and what-will-the- neighbors-say people? I don't buy the argument that women aren't attached to their names, or they hated their names so adopted their husbands or that there was no solution to the child naming issue other than laying down on the issue.

This is just rationalization. You can still be well-liked by the patriarchy in your family. "I'd do it if it weren't so hard, his name wasn't so much better than mine, and I'd have to take a stand in the family." Maybe it's a bargain you make so financial and emotional support won't be withdrawn if you behave. But for those of you who can do it despite the threats, thank you, thank you, thank you.

For those of you that don't, yet admit you wish you could, yes, you can be feminists, but admitedly, not as brave as some others. I don't fault women in Muslim dominated countries who can't go as far, where showing their hair is an act of freedom, so I can't know what pressures you are under to lose everything, or at least be too much trouble to your families and husbands that it would upset the whole kitty cart. Not everybody can take the risk of sitting in the front of the bus until the tipping point occurs. But I have my greater admiration for the heroines who do and in so doing, are making change. Just like the gays who first began to live openingly and in families. How wonderfully courageous. Yes I do judge. There are braver women than others and they deserve extra credit. And I applaud them.

The women here who have gone through divorce know that when the haze of being a man's woman goes away, you're left with the expense of name change and constant reminder when you divorce. Don't talk to me about how much trouble it is for a man to change his name. Try dealing with your name change after a divorce. If you kept your own name, so much easier on your finances and you get to keep your professional accomplishments and contacts so much easier. And by the way, why isn't your name good enough for your child?

Hey Charlie, I'm sorry you associate your name with your absent parent, but for me, my last name isn't my father's--it's mine! I have made my name what I want it to be. I didn't choose between "my father's or my partner's" because I don't believe that my partner has any more ownership over his (his father's?) name than I do over mine.

Do you think so much of this ambivalence that so many brides are showing over their names stems from this idea we grow up with that we don't really own our names?

She said that she believes male babies could carry on their fathers' surnames and female babies could carry on their mothers' surnames so we'd have a tradition that would honor both parents instead of totally ignoring one.

I don't like this idea because it reinforces a binary gender system for the kids (are the girls somehow MORE the mother's child? the boys somehow MORE the father's child?) and also what do you do with the children who are trans? Or, as you pointed out, same-sex parents with children of both sexes. Who'd get whose name?

It seems important, in my mind, that children in a family all share the same family name. Am I being old-fashioned??

(I have also been scolded for marrying when my gay friends cannot, but that's another kettle of fish.)

It's too bad you've gotten flack for this ticky. I have some really close friends who are gay (I'm straight), and I have definitely thought about whether or not I should--if/when the time comes--get married when they cannot. Why can't there just be civil unions for all!!! (I think that's what they have in England now). But I think the decision to "abstain" from marriage for political reasons should really be a personal decision. You can advocate for same-sex marriage as a married person just as strongly as if you remained unmarried.

My name isn't my father's. It was given to me because it was my father's, but it's been mine for going on 26 years now. I don't think it was a loan at the time, either.

I do think that women who change their names make it harder for the ones who don't want to, but to each their own. I'm sure I do things that make it harder for someone else; everyone does. Pick the battles you care about.

I am not going to change my name. I'll hyphenate with his, and I'll probably answer to folks who call me Mrs. Lastname, but it'll be through clenched teeth.

Thinking, and talking, a lot about immigration issues lately, I'm wondering why people tend to be so hung up on continuing their family name. Almost none of my family names are the original any more. My father's Scottish family name has changed to several variations over the past 200 years. My mother's side is full of Polish names that were changed (by the government) as people immigrated to the US. My mother's parents never really had their father's true last names because the changes are really drastic. Just something to think about I guess.

I changed my name when I got married. I went from a 3 syllable almost impronounceable by English standards name to a monosyllabic standard English name. Plus, I have an abusive and messed up family, and if you googled me you'd find me and my uncle the ax murderer (no joke). I didn't want to be associated with that, and I wanted to form a new identity away from my family. Thus, took the husband's name.

However, I always viewed that as the best choice for my situation, and by no means a default. If I liked my name or had positive associations with it, I would have kept it. As it is, I never assume a woman will change her name. I'm a wedding planner and I always ask what will happen with names after the marriage and give advice accordingly. Neither personally nor professionally do I assume the woman will change her name.

I also had one set of clients where the bride's last name was St. Bla and the groom's was a gorgeous Eastern European name. It would have been cute if they both changed to St. Groom's name and they almost did. Hands down the best version of combined names I've ever seen.

Betty, I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that all women feel a deep connection to their last names. I love my dad. I love his family. I have a very strong sense of my own identity as a woman, a writer, a singer, and an expectant mother. Absolutely none of those things are tied into my name. Maybe it's just because my family uses nicknames more than given names, but quite frankly, if I changed my first name as well, I would still feel like myself. I sure as hell don't feel like I lost any of my identity when I took my new name, and I'd be shocked if anyone who knew me felt that I've changed as a person since changing my name.

I would never take my husband's last name, even if I marry. My mother took my fathers name and they divorced, and she hasn't changed it back because at her age, there is so much damn paperwork floating around with her name on it- the mortgage and the credit cards and her licence and her library card and each loyalty card and everyhing else that she just doesn't have the time. I also love my last name because I am the only one in the world with my first name and last name, and damn it, I like that.

I hate that every time we discuss last names, a bunch of feminists come out and comment about either hating their last name because it was hard to spell/ too long/ whatever, or because they hated the people they got it from, and it was "their father's". No, its yours, you have had it for years. I think that if these women are really honest with themselves, the idea to change their last name is only there because of the patriarchy, not because they actually want to change it- or else these two types of women would have changed it at 18. There is nothing wrong with admitting they are victims of the patriarchy- its how we grow up, just like how I, as a white person, am racist- not because I am a bad person, but because I grew up in a culture that was and I picked up n that lesson.

My last name is hyphenated--my mom's name then my dad's--and I'll keep it that way when I marry. The argument that I'm really just choosing between having my father's (or in my case, father's and grandfather's) name or my husband's just doesn't make sense to me, at all. And not just because one of my names belonged most recently to my mother. I've had the same name my whole life. I have a college and a law school degree under that name. All of my professional accomplishments are under that name, and if I publish anything it will be under that name. (As an aside, one of the problems I have with the assumption that women will change their names is that it seems to assume that women, unlike men, haven't accomplished anything professionally that they would still wish to be identified with after marriage). The people who know and love me first knew me by that name. It's *my* name, not my fathers/grandfather's. Changing it doesn't make any sense to me.

That said, what I will do for my kids I don't know. My brother and his girlfriend recently had a baby, and decided ahead of time that it would have her last name if a girl, his if a boy, which is one way to do it. I'm curious about what people who aren't married when they have kids name their kids, since it seems like in that situation the woman pretty certainly hasn't changed her name--does that change how much pressure there is to give the baby the father's last name, or does it create more pressure, to offset some kind of stereotype of illegitimacy?

As a man it made no sense that our child would carry my father's name so we gave our son his mother's name. However my mother is still upset over 11 years later -- even though my father's name is a very common name, was not even the name he was born with, and her "maiden" name now no longer exists.

Ironically of me and my two brothers, none of our children ended up with the our father's last name (though one family reclaimed the orginal family name)

It's always seemed strange to me that my husband's family had less of an issue with me keeping my last name than my own family (who still send things to John and Lucy HistLastName, even when I know they know better; at this point, I can only assume they're doing it deliberately). I'm mostly sanguine about being called Mrs. HisLastName by people who don't know better, but if you ever want to see me get really steamed, call me Dr. HisLastName. Nuh-uh. That degree is mine. I also refuse to open mail address to Mr. and Mrs. John HisLastName. Petty, maybe, but I don't think it's asking too much that people include at least one of my names on things.

It's interesting to watch etiquette slowly catch up to reality. Just the other day, Dear Abby advised that a wedding invitation be addresses to Mr. John Smith and Dr. Helen Smith when the wife has the degree.

I hear ya, Kimmy and Betty. I also took my husband's name and then got divorced. I tried to keep my own name by making my last name into a middle name (so I have two), but I've been woefully unsuccessful there. Most places don't accept multiple middle initials, and some of them try to fix that by putting my second middle initial in the last name box, with a space, and then my last name. Result: Now I get mail addressed to some fictional person, whose last name was created when they deleted the space between my second middle initial and my last name.

And, of course, I was a dumbass and didn't have the judge restore my unmarried name during the divorce. At the time I wasn't ready to give up the new identity I'd forged for myself. ::smacks head:: Now, when people ask me my name, I will only give my first name, because I hate my ex's name so much. It will cost me $125 and a couple of days off from work to get this nonsense fixed. (Which doesn't sound like a lot, but on my budget ...)

The upshot is that when I get junk mail, I can usually tell whether the company really knows me or not based on whichever made-up name they send the crap to. (On the downside, apparently I have a host of made-up aliases on my credit report, none of which I have created myself!)

It seems important, in my mind, that children in a family all share the same family name. Am I being old-fashioned??

I don't necessarily think that you're being old-fashioned, but it just doesn't seem that important to me. If my first kid is named FirstName Partner'sLastName MyLastname and my second kid is named FirstName MyLastName Partner'sLastName, and they grow up together, I don't really see what they'll be losing by having different last names.

Emily and Thistle, I agree with you completely. It's as much my name as it is my father's.

I adopted my husband's last name when we got married partly because I liked his awkward German name slightly better than my redneck name and partly because I felt (though others in this thread have expressed their disagreement) that I was choosing between my husband's name and my father's name. Since I loathe my father and pretty much his entire extended family, it wasn't a hard decision. I do regret a bit that I didn't try to "reclaim" my original last name and keep it and make it my own, but honestly I'm not sure I could have with the baggage I have coming from that family. My original name didn't feel "mine" any more than my current one does.

This is actually a topic I've been thinking about lately and I wish I had a better option. Although I do feel like "choosing between my husband's and father's names" is somewhat akin to choosing which owner I want to acknowledge (ugh!), taking my mother's maiden name still would have been her father's name as well, and so on. There is no name floating around my family "name pool" that is not a male passed-on name. At the same time I want my identity somehow incorporated into my hypothetical future children's names--its grossly unfair for only my husband's name to be part of theirs when I'm the one who would be carrying them and giving birth. Bleh... what a mess.

"I hate that every time we discuss last names, a bunch of feminists come out and comment about either hating their last name because it was hard to spell/ too long/ whatever..."

Well, I hesitate to post this but I did change my name for that very reason. It was long and it has a silent "g" in it. That doesn't happen often in English (which my legal name is not) and I was sick of having it mangled. I looked into the process of legally changing my name before I graduated university because I didn't want to start my career with that moniker. I've seen enough glazed expressions when people confronted my name. It happens and I hated it.

But, changing my name legally was a big hassle. I'm a naturalized citizen and the paperwork/legal fees would have been insane. Plus, I didn't want a new naturalization card, Social Insurance Card and birth certificate (from my birth country, no less), etc.

When I got married, I was able to use my husband's lovely Anglo name without having to legally change mine. It was great. I'm still who I am but I can apply for work with a name that won't scare off employers.

Which is not to say that I'd do it again.

When acquaintances were getting married and the bride wanted to keep her name, the groom convinced her to change it by using me as an example. "Look at her, she's a feminist and she changed her name." When she told me that was the deciding factor in her decision, I was more than a little crushed. I did point out to her that feminism was about being free to make the choices that are right for you, not making the same choices as every one else but my words rang hollow in my own ears. I wish she'd spoken to me first. I would have advised her to keep her name and toss her fiance. Frankly, if my spouse had told me to take his name, I would've told him where he could shove his name.

Annajcook, I don't think you're being old-fashioned about the family name. We've been using our pets as a trial run for determining our kids' surnames. We gave our dog and cat hyphenated last names. Go figure--two vets, three pet stores, and one groomer all have them listed incorrectly. Hyphenating kids' names, even short, easy names like ours, seems like a major PITA.

That said, divorce and remarriage have been common for so long now that everybody knows a family with a bunch of different names (there are three represented in my aunt's family), and they seem to do just fine.

I kept my name, Elaine Vigneault. My husband kept his name, Ed Miller.

And when we have babies, they'll get new and separate names (we'll use first and last names from our family tree that didn't get passed down). And if we adopt the kids will keep their original names.

Our friends and family are fine with our name choices. See, they actually love and respect us. The only people our decisions about names have pissed off are the people who don't even know us - my husband's fans and my enemies. They are misogynist pigs.

"I enjoy telling random callers that there is no one with the name "Mrs. Clinefelter" here, but I am Mr. Clinefelter's wife."

Oo, I'm going to have to remember that one.

Like Cosmic, my now-husband brought up the notion of keeping my name. Thankfully, if anyone in either family batted an eye about it, it's never gotten back to me. But since his last name is neither that of his biological father nor that of the man he calls "Dad", I think his family understood. And although my Dad's family is fairly conservative, perhaps they were happy that their name was the one being passed on. The most confusion I ever got was a post-wedding check from my maternal grandfather addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. [Husband's Name]", and he quickly corrected that when I told him.

Along the same lines, we started going to an independent company to get our tax forms done when we found out that they, unlike H&R Block, automatically put the primary wage earner as the first name on the returns, rather than automatically putting the husband first.

The kids are going to have my last name. When the time comes, I'll have to see what the laws in Ontario are like concerning that.

I also want to point out that the Marilyn Vos Savant idea doesn't allow for the continuation of mothers' names if they only have boys and/or fathers' names if they only have girls ... and if someone chooses or is able to have only one child, one parent's name will definitely be "discontinued." Can we please resist the supposedly-ideal-family-boy-and-girl-standard here too?

SamBarge- I have to ask, if your last name sucked (and believe me, I understand, I have never had anyone pronounce my name correctly- and hell, half the family doesn't since my great aunt is Southern and has been mispronouncing it for two generations, now) why didn't you change it at 18?

Also, as an aside, I found your story of the other woman taking her husband's last name more than a little heartbreaking.

"It seems important, in my mind, that children in a family all share the same family name. Am I being old-fashioned??"

Yes, I would say so. My two sons have two different dads. Does that mean we are not all in the same family to you? Do I have to change all of our names to some new family name to be a real family? What old-fashioned system would work for a country in which more than half of kids live in blended families?

I didn't get a choice as to how the came up with my name when I was born, so I don't agree with people who say it is just my father's name. It has been my name my whole life. I think the argument that names are not identity would not be true to many people. Go to an adoption website and get in a conversation with people about how important given names are, and the controversy over changing names.

If someone is blase' about changing their first name or their last, it is a personal choice. Don't generalize your impersonal feelings towards your name on everyone. I doubt many people would agree that they would easily change their first name.

And finally, I find it hard to believe that the lashback women have gotten who have changed their names from feminists is worth complaint, but I am sorry if you have friends who treated you like that. I had my mother-in-law tell me over the phone that I was denying my son's paternity just by adding my name on to the end after his father's the day after I had given birth. I had my husband telling em that I tricked him maliciously to go along with it and knew I could get away with it because of the emotions after the birth. Telling personal stories about people being hurtful and playing victim might feel vindicative here, but let's remember who the majority is, OK?

Why is it that when men get married, there are so many things that just aren't supposed to change for them, but do for women? Similar to name changing in the static-male-status arena is, "I now pronounce you man and wife." I HATE that. I can't help but feel revolted when I hear that instead of, "husband and wife" because it seems indicative of women being no more than a wife once their married, like the act of marriage is only to bind the woman to the man.

I took my husband's name, after much much much much much discussion. I never thought I would, and am fond of my original name...but my husband came from a pretty broken home, and it was very important to him that we all have the same last night - build a new, less messed up, familial unit. Okay, so then we just had to pick whose name...he already had professional creds under his name, and I was just starting out.
I did take my original name as my middle name, and use it that way - I always write and say both names. So I guess its a hyphen sitch without the hyphen?
Anyway - I think this system stinks, and every solution to it is flawed - but what can we do but make the best choice for us at the time?

Correction: Some of my husband's fans are assholes, not all of them. In fact, many are very nice people :)

My wife informed me that she was actually a little nervous about broaching the subject when we were first making plans. This boggled my mind, as the idea of her taking my name just hadn't even crossed my mind. No thought was spared at all until she mentioned that she wanted to keep her name, at which point I said that I didn't care either way. She uses my last name when she does any acting or writing, but her own all the other times.

Her mother is married and divorced and re-married. She changed her name when she got married the first time, and kept his name when she got married the second. Her new husband doesn't care, and she likes her first husband's name better than her maiden name (nobody can spell her maiden name).

We had to decide on children's last names. We did toy with the idea of for a girl giving her my last name and my wife's last name as a middle name, and vise-versa for a boy. We ended up hyphenating, wife's name-my name. I was pushing for the reverse, but that was mostly for humour.

When some of my older male friends found out about my wife not taking my name, they were surprised. One of them even said that if his wife wasn't willing to take his name when they got married, he wouldn't have married her (still would have lived with/had kids with, but not married). Crazy.

Times are changing though. It may be as high as 81% that intend to change their names, but I'm sure it will get higher as the practice of keeping names becomes more firmly entrenched. Once people see enough couples for whom it isn't a problem, it'll pick up.

Re: children having the same last name--I don't think it has to be that way, but I think you'll get even more backlash for giving kids different names than for keeping their own. I actually think that wanting the kids to all have the same name is a good reason to go with hyphenation. My mom remarried and had a third child, my baby brother, when I was 15, and because he and I both have hyphenated names our names are different but still have an element--our mom's last name--in common, which I have to admit I like.

I like the idea of a couple being able to hyphenate their names easily so that they can be joining two families together. But frankly, I have no interest in marrying at all. But if two people are going to get married, they should have all the options open. No matter who does or doesn't wish to change their name.

"SamBarge- I have to ask, if your last name sucked (and believe me, I understand, I have never had anyone pronounce my name correctly- and hell, half the family doesn't since my great aunt is Southern and has been mispronouncing it for two generations, now) why didn't you change it at 18?"

I didn't do it right away because I really couldn't afford it. There were legal fees in Canada and Italy because I was a naturalized citizen. Still am, I guess. I was actually saving money to have it done when my spouse and I decided to tie the knot.

Also, I didn't like the idea of legally changing my name. I know some women do this when they get married but the idea of having a birth certificate with anything other than my birth name on it seems more than a little creepy to me.

But like I said, I wouldn't do it again. I wish I kind of had gone through with the legal name change because I would have used my mother's birth name (which women keep in Italy, by the way) and I really like her name.

Happily, I don't have a hard to pronounce first name. My sister's first name is Gigliola. I suppose since the horrendous Affleck/Lopez flick, Gigli, came out that more people would be able to pronounce it.

I know this subject has come up pretty recently, but it's an important discussion to continuously have. I have just two married friends, and they both changed their surnames, with seemingly no thought or discussion given to the issue. I was disappointed.

I have another friend who married at age 20 and changed her surname. She was divorced at 22 and it added more bureaucracy, time, and money to change her surname back to her own.

I always feel less alone in threads like this because, to me, keeping one's surname does not seem in any way radical. I am a bit surprised, however, at the amount of people who say 'when' they get married. I'm waiting for more radical feminists to speak up who don't believe in marriage!

Thanks for the thoughts, Hilary and Snappy Mackerel. I can see the problem desire for a unified family name would be when it comes to blended families. I have friends who have gone back and forth over the years as to which parent's name they use after a divorce.

On the other hand, I think names have powerful symbolic resonance (evidenced by many strong opinions on this thread!) and I do like the statement that a family name gives about the unified nature of a family unit. Family names have, historically, been a very important, indelible part of our identity. That's obviously changing (and in many ways this change is a good thing!) . . . but I don't know that we should throw the whole concept over because we don't like some problems with the system. It seems like there are ways to deal with the misogyny and blended family issues without doing away entirely with the concept of family names.

"We are no longer a patriarchal society," Walker said.

um - we most certainly ARE still a patriarchal society, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue.

thistle wrote:

I'm curious about what people who aren't married when they have kids name their kids, since it seems like in that situation the woman pretty certainly hasn't changed her name--does that change how much pressure there is to give the baby the father's last name, or does it create more pressure, to offset some kind of stereotype of illegitimacy?

I referred to this kind of situation in my first comment, but perhaps you didn't pick up on that. We can't combat the stereotype of "illegitimacy" if people continue to think of children born to parents not married to one another as "illegitimate." Are you aware that that means "unlawful"? Do you want someone to call you that?

My son is and has always been my lawful son, as well as a lawful human being, and he lawfully carries my lawful name. I'm picking on you, thistle, not because I think that you meant what you said - I'm quite certain that you didn't, in fact - but I want to point out, once again, the power of words. I can think of two other words/phrases, right off the top of my head, that are meant to insult a man based on an insult to his mother: "bastard" and "son of a bitch." Similarly, the priest at my church once explained in his sermon that when Jesus was called "son of Mary" by the people in his hometown, that was actually probably meant as an insult by casting doubt on his paternity. Here's my original post on that subject:

http://www.motherblogs.net/jessica/249/What+I+Learned+About+Mothers+At+Church+This+Sunday.html

In my case, I'm quite certain that, while my ex probably wanted my son to have his last name, neither he nor his family could much blame me for not wanting that after what they put me through. And I did simply put my foot down and say that my son would have my last name. I made it clear that there was no room for debate with me on this issue, so there wasn't.

However, as in many other points, I was lucky there. If I had been married, the hospital might have ignored my wishes or let my husband dictate the child's name while I was asleep. The court might have refused to require the father to pay support, even though he'd acknowledged paternity, without the child carrying his last name, as I mentioned in my first comment as well. And ultimately, if your husband refuses to change his name, you can't make him do it. I wanted to try to create a combined last name when my husband and I married, but he didn't. That's a great approach to use, as my parents did, to create a break in the patriarchal line, as some of the posters here have felt that keeping their (fathers') last names would have required them to do. We have to start somewhere!

"You can advocate for same-sex marriage as a married person just as strongly as if you remained unmarried."

Not only can you, but it makes the "same-sex marriage will erode opposite-sex marriage" argument die on conservatives' lips.

A few years ago, a poller for the Progressive Conservative party called the house while I was at work. They asked whether we'd be voting PC, and my husband said no. When they asked why not, he said, "My wife and I disagree with the Conservatives' stance against gay marriage."

He said that there was a long pause as the wheels turned in the poller's head. "I'm talking to a man... and he has a wife... but they approve of same-sex marriage? Oh-kay..."

I also kept my name when I married. I remember having this conversation with a girl (I really can't consider her a woman, she was like Monica Goodling testifying)who was engaged at the same time I was. She couldn't understand why I wasn't changing my name, kept insisting that taking on your husbands name was how you extended family (wtf does that mean?) and was all worried about what we were going to do about our kids. Another woman we worked with decided to change her name only when she and her husband adopted their first child, so that they could all have the same name.

Well, my 3 girls were born in South America where the custom is to have both mother and father's names, although the complicated part is that in Brazil it's mothersname fathersname and in the Spanish-speaking world it's fathersname mothersname. We had to do a little fighting so that our 2 daughters born in Paraguay could have the same name as their older sister born in Brazil. The rules are pretty rigid and we had to bring in dd#1's birth certificate to prove that her name was really like that. In the end they allowed us to keep the surname order, mostly because I'm a foreigner, I think.

I never even considered changing my name. It's my mother's name and the only link I had to her father whom I never knew. Now that my mom is remebering her childhood (blocked it out due to extensive, repeated sexual abuse by her father over the course of about 8 years) I'm trying to come to terms with having this name that I associate with this creature (can I even call him a man? a human?) who, if there is any justice, is rotting in one of the lower levels of hell. My mom didn't even change her name back when she divorced, even though her ex (my stepdad) is a raging alcoholic and most probably gay (which, of course, is not a problem unless you marry a woman and have 2 kids with her instead of just accepting who you are and loving yourself despite whatever fucked up morality your even more fucked up parents passed onto you.)

But now I feel like it's too late to change my name. My kids already have it as a part of theirs and even if I wanted to get away from it, here in Brazil I have to use my "maiden" name all the time. The fact that I only have one name is problem sometimes (as it is for my sil who was born in the US and only has her father's name.)

I can't wait to move back up north and see what kind of confusion comes from my girls' last names. Legally they have 2 unhyphenated last names. And the second one is pretty hard for a non-Spanish speakers to pronounce. They may end up wanting to only use my name in the US!

I think that the idea of giving female children the mother's last name and vice versa is absolutely terrible!
I am the mother to two boys. They are certainly not more their father's children than they are mine. I've said this before, but the day that my husband gives birth is the day that we can consider giving the child his last name.
Adoption is obviously different, but even still I wouldn't divide the kids between me and my husband like that.
I really find that naming strategy to be even more sexist than the patriarchal tradition that is up for discussion on this thread.

Ooh, one more thing, and that's it, I promise:

When we got married, we had the minister change some of the words in the ceremony:

"man and wife" to "husband and wife"

and

"You may kiss the bride" to "You may kiss one another."

(We also had them take out the part about marriage being intended for the procreation of children. We replaced it with the nurture of children, since I already had one.)

I also made a point of asking our DJ to announce us as "Mr. and Mrs." followed by both of our full, original names. That clued some people in anyway.

He got the order backwards, though. He said something along the lines of "Mr. and Mrs. [my name] and [his name]." Hee hee.

Someday we'll be Dr. and Mr. I'm looking forward to that. :)

I think having the choice to do what you want and not feel pressured one way or the other is what's important. None of us pick our own given name in the first place, and some of us obviously identify with what we've been handed more than others. I pretty much changed my first name as a teenager because I disliked the nickname my parents had given me. I also took my husband's last name because I liked it more than the one I had. So my entire name now is very different from the name I had as a child. But, that being the case, I still identify positively with my father's last name, just as I identify with my mother's last name, even though it was never officially mine (and my grandmothers' names as well, etc. etc.). I guess I see that less as selling out my identity than evolving into a new one that seemed to fit right for me. But I would never say that anyone should change their name simply for the traditional reasons, or because others expect it -- it should definitely be a personal choice that makes you feel good about who you have become, one way or the other.

Jessica, I used "stereotype of illegitimacy," I didn't call anyone illegitimate. I'm not sure how to refer to the stigma in question otherwise. As it happens, my parents weren't married when I was born, nor were my baby brother's parents married when he was born, nor are my baby niece's parents married now. I'm not unaware of stigma around this.

So I know that we queers mess up the language anyway- but what happens when two women (or two men) get married? I'm well aware that I'm living in the only state where it's currently recognized (if you're in Boston Thursday, please go to the ConCon to help protest the ban!) but we've nonetheless been gettin' hitched for years all over the place. It seems to me we might be more likely than straight women to keep our last names. Has anyone here ever made out a letter to "Mrs. and Mrs. Smith" (or Mr. and Mr. Jones, for that matter)?

I haven't given much thought to the hyphenation battle, but I'm not so sure I buy arguments that there's any inherent inequality just because one name comes before the other. Seems to me that most people would consider which combination sounds better and go with that. I'll admit that I like the notion of "The Smith Family" for purposes of addressing the Christmas cards, but I like my name too much to relegate it to maiden name status.