This is off-topic, but since it's about teh hip-hop:

Some good ol' fashioned blame-the-victim action going on with the whole Akon debacle.

http://www.tmz.com/2007/05/11/akons-onstage-jailbait-revealed/

Um, if every teen girl with a racy pic on her myspace page is asking to get dry-humped on stage...

In Snoop's defense, I pretty sure the dude doesn't even know where he is 60% of the time at this point.

Good post Samhita. I remember VH1 had a thing on a few years ago where they talked about the video vixen culture and of course they interviewed Karin Steffans (sp?) as she was filming a video of Mystical I believe. She was standing in the desert wearing tight pants and nipple pasties talking about how videos could lead to other jobs in modeling and acting.

That was a few years ago. She did go on to write a book however unless she's talking about the men she's slept with I don't see her doing anything else. The only real video vixen I know who transitioned into acting was Lisa Raye and she started in the business when there were opportunities for women to do R&B love ballads.

What I also wonder is why these rappers are always using the same theme in their videos (cars, women, money, everything shaking) and not coming up with different stories to tell through the music. They keep saying that no one forces these women to do this but like you said, what choice do they have when the videos are all carbon copies of each other? Nothing is original in the rap video music world, not like it is for rock and alternative. It's always the same damn thing and I don't understand why the artists can't see that they too are being manipulated into reinforcing a tired stereotype.

Maybe they do and they just don't care.

I'm totally with you on the labor issue, but the main issue for me, personally, is why there's a market for this type of imagery. Why does our society think it's okay for rappers to have several scantily clad women hanging all over him and doing sexually degrading things in public? Why is it a sign of status to have hot girls all over you and fighting for your attention? I think, unfortunately, that these videos say a LOT about how society views women.

Yes I agree with you both, Ultramagnus and Cara, why the same forumla? and why is this the desired formula?

I think that rap videos are a glorified visual of the way that women are seen as possessions and the more you have, the more manly you are.

The sad thing is that the whole "harem" image is so prevalent you almost have to work to notice it. I mean, even William Shatner has a bunch of pretty women scattered about his place in one of the ads for that stupid travel site.

Oh yeah, since this is coming from a guy who had two black women on leashes at an MTV Video Music awards I would say it's safe to go with the belief that he doesn't have the best interests of feminists or women in mind.

and b) ultimately where does dancing take them

Well, Kobe Bryant's wife met him while underage video ho-ing. In fact, I think it was a Snoop Dogg video, or one of his spinoff groups.

And from there she went to Broadway and won that Tony Award.

Just kidding about that last part.

The very idea makes one third of my brain cells stroke out.

Is it me or was that less of a defence for those women who are supposedly “video ho’s�, and more of an excuse to use them? Im not a fan of hip-hop myself, not that its the only genre to feature the use of semi naked women to further its music, or to be “cool�. Still, if Snoop Dogg was anything close to a Feminist, Id imagine he would ditch the use of women like that, and also all the use of misogynistic lyrics, to prove hes an artist, and respects women. But he hasn’t, and probably wont, so I guess its just a comment made by someone who doesn’t understand what Feminism is.

Still, while I don’t think any of the artists I listen to use women like that, Id say its still not just isolated to hip-hop (though that is perhaps the most heavily featured, that I have at least seen) or isolated to music for that matter.

Still, perhaps its better for hip-hop fans to be the ones to decide this, and I stick to Faith No More and Alternative Metal?

Phlegmatic,

You are correct. This really isn't anything but rap artists covering their asses as they are being called out. They could tell the directors they want a different kind of video or to take it in a different direction but they don't. It's a dick measuring contest to see who has the most bling and women and cars, when in reality they don't own any of the material things you see in the video. Everything is on lease to them and even when you see them at awards shows or concerts there's a good chance that a lot of the jewelry they're wearing is on loan. It's an image they feel they have to uphold in order to be considered "men".

It's pretty much like a drug dealing going, "I don't MAKE them do crack, they do them on their own!" It's like a mainstream version of "Stop hitting yourself! Why can't you stop hitting yourself!"

VH1 has a special that's been airing for quite some time now. It's true that a lot of these women do see these videos (no matter how raunchy to some of us) as a means to bigger and better things. They see them as a way to launch dance or acting careers. Many of them are from small towns in the south where there just weren't a lot of opportunities. Some women latch on to these rappers and the lifestyle in the same way that other groupies latch on to rock stars and/or athletes.

Just as many men feel their manhood is enhanced by having lots of women around, many of these women see nothing wrong with hanging out with these guys, providing sexual favors and taking whatever "perks" they can get.

Though I feel there may be some naivety and some self-esteem issues, I'm not sure I'd call women with a totally different mindset from mine, victims.

Those women who showed up with Snoop on those leashes were not forced. They were part of his "act" and probably proud of themselves. I doubt he beat them down and made them do it.

Quiet as it's kept, some women are opportunistic and "whorish" but as long as both sides understand the "game" and both sides want to play, I'll keep my pious attitudes out of their business.

I see them no differently to the slews of young women who live at the Playboy mansion. Same isht, different venue.

Here's the VH1 link. You may change your mind about some of these women if you look at it from their point of view.

http://www.vh1.com/shows/dyn/vh1_news_presents/96137/episode.jhtml

As for Karrine Stephens (aka Superhead), she's acknowledged her self-esteem issues but also brags about all the money she made when she was in that scene. She briefly dated Bill Maher (I'm sure he couldn't wait to sample her skills) and is working on another book.

The funny thing about a lot of these rappers is that they have been in long term relationships/marriages with women who've known them since they first started out. I cannot say what the women have endured as far as infidelity but in the end, they have locked into real wealth and assets and these rappers seem intent on staying with these women for the long haul.

A few things:

1: Folks, let's not hate on an entire huge genre of music without knowing a bit more about it. There's other hip-hop out there than what's on MTV, VH-1, and KMEL. Some of you may be shocked to know that there are some actual women feminist MCs. Not kidding.

2. Like so much else in the world, the choices people make usually are pretty reasonable, given their circumstances. Statistically, given the class status of the majority of Black and Latina women in this society, the job of dancing in rap videos probably puts one immediately above the average income within that race and gender group. As Samhita said, this is a labor issue. That's why it's far more interesting to know the actual stories of these women-- stories that it seems we really know very little about, from what I can tell here.

qusan,

As far as I've read no one is attacking the women for their choices.

Those women who showed up with Snoop on those leashes were not forced. They were part of his "act" and probably proud of themselves. I doubt he beat them down and made them do it.

Can I ask then what you make of a performer who feels it necessary and funny to put women on leashes in the first place? I'll add that the incident later lead to a cartoon segment on a show for MTV2 in which the women were depicted as shitting on the carpet?

As far as the Playboy mansion, there are people who also criticize Hugh Hefner for his "harem" as well, which is more than likely a front for his eternal bachelor image.

People are free to make their choices, what we were talking about what WHY the artists can't get past the bitches, ho's and money imagery we are constantly presented with and present an alternative like their white counterparts. Not every Aerosmith video featured scantily clad women so why should every mainstream hip-hop video feature stereotypical black male sexuality?

ooh, flashback - Van Halen's "girls, girls, girls". Stereotypical in every possible way, but it still managed to be delightfully whimsical, fun and original.

Maybe it's just me, but I really liked the video.

OOPS.

It was David Lee Roth in "California Girls"

It was Van Halen in "Hot for Teacher", which I liked, too.

This is probably a good place to repost the Bjork - IceT mashup phonecall animgif meme. I mention it because you know, D'Cuckoo and other bands that call props to publicist, lawyer, string throrist and VC women just are not around when you want to pick out hubcaps and bling and torcheries and giant speakers for the video. (Pan to shot of Snoop at Beauty Brands, basket fuller than one might expect; 'What?')

Maybe even David Edelstein (movie) reviews set in rap would be a nice gateway to critical differences and songs with identifiable aesthetic features. Not that I would be un-damned as far as editing down to a 4-minute speech if I have experience editing down to 4-minute rap songs.

Hey who put the Daisy Hernandez black-matted closeup on a white-matted page?

Can I ask then what you make of a performer who feels it necessary and funny to put women on leashes in the first place?

I don't make anything of someone whose entire image is that of being a "pimp" (whose name is Dogg) doing that because that is what he does for a living. He has a wife and kids who are living luxurious lives as a result of it. Men will do exactly what you allow and those women probably thought they were hot "isht" for being on the Red Carpet with a mega-star. Does his music and persona suit my tastes? Nope! The girls on the leashes will have to look in their own mirrors in the future and come to terms with buying into this type of thing.

Misogeny is part of the mainstream culture. Listen to any right wing loud mouth and while you might not hear "ho" on a regular basis, you will hear women called every thing else under the sun that degrades them too. This brand or rap is but one segment of hip-hop which is but one segment of the larger music industry and society.

Not every Aerosmith video featured scantily clad women so why should every mainstream hip-hop video feature stereotypical black male sexuality?

Don't know much about Areosmith (except they look ed like women to me). Not every hip-hop video features stereotypical black male sexuality either.

I always get the feeling that it's not concern for the women but the fear that the myths about black male sexuality are true. Lord knows what would have happened had one of those collared women been white. Bill O'Reilly would have spontaneously combusted. However, I'm sure you know that most of those rappers have more than their share of white female groupies too.

Then there's Kanye West who said: "If it wasn't for race mixing, there'd be no video girls."

I think that the point that snoop made was important. It is one thing for black women to appear in the video's of hiphop videos as sex objects, it is another thing for a white man to call black women ho's.

There may be some differences, jadijadi, but they're both still pretty degrading to the women.

"What I also wonder is why these rappers are always using the same theme in their videos (cars, women, money, everything shaking) and not coming up with different stories to tell through the music."

Check out the first of the music video reviews here:

http://www.themack.org/2005/06/kanye-west-diamonds-from-sierra-leone.html

I'm starting to appreciate Kanye more all the time... first the New Orleans stunt, and now this :)

This is my first time posting on this blog. I do want to mention that "video hos" are in other genres of music, not just rap/hip-hop. It's also in country and metal/alternative. If you've ever heard some of Toby Keith's songs before... it's sickening....

Yeah, feministing peeps have posted about Toby Keith before -actually like a week or two ago I think

Snoop's specific language is telling as well: "Not every girl in the videos has sex with the rappers."

"Not every girl" makes it sound like most do - which I'm guessing is consensual, but just the fact that he has to say that not all of them fuck the rappers is demonstrative of the point of view where he's coming from.

all music genres have these video hos or vixens but to the uninitiated in the suburbs or people who don't have contact with nonwhites, commercial rap reduces all black or nonwhite women to hos. commercial rappers from marginalized groups have greater responsibility and accountability. snoop tried to evade responsibility for his videos during the imus scandal when he said:

[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money.

the average person listening to top 40 radio with "thugs", "hos" and "bitches" in the lyrics will blur the line between the majority of poc who are responsible, tax-paying citizens and "thugs", "hos" and "bitches" in "the hood."

I just think that even if their actions does align entirely with their self-interest, they also have to think about how their actions might negatively impact the image of womanhood in general - and in turn, other women.

I'm not one to believe that "if it fits with my self-interest, it's a good thing". That's too objectivist.

Well I'm also not one to believe in self-sacrifice for the good of all either. That's too christian.

But that nash thing of being both or neither, that's what I believe in.

So anyway, of course they should be allowed to dance in those videos. And I don't necessarily believe they are degrading themselves in just a purely self-defined kind of way. But they're degrading womanhood a little. So they shouldn't be championed as being some sort of empowerment thing.

I should note that all of the same things could be said about porn, but I still watch it sometimes.