I know it's a different conversation topic but this makes me think of the discussion of sex workers and whether it should be framed as defining the workers victims or women who've made a conscious choice to work in the sex industry.
Another thing that frustrates me about this girls-gone-wild thing is that it gives right wingers ammunition to run with the idea that being modest and covering up is some cool backlash thing. I think being yourself is really the backlash thing and not doing anything because someone tells you, whether it's MTV telling you to take it all off or a right-winger telling you to keep it all on and hide it away.
After reading Ariel Levy's book, a few friends and I talked about how we saw ourselves in the book. We tried to be the cool girls and the guys' best friends but we all had points where we just felt awkward when they'd eventually objectify women.
I guess my point is that my problem is with anyone telling me to empower myself. I get to choose how to empower myself, damnit.

I think the reason why GGW is supposed to be representing a feminist perspective is because feminists push for women to be able to be more sexually expressive and all that. I think that the reason this sticks in feminists' craw is because if you condemn the girls in the videos then you're a hater and a prude, but if you condemn the video maker or say that the girls didn’t think about what they were doing (or were drunk) then you're saying that the women don't have agency over our own actions, which is disempowering to women. And if you say that some are empowered and some aren’t by participating in this kind of behavior then it makes the argument a moot point. What a conundrum.

It just irks me to see that just because young feminists want to have a conversation about things like GGW without finger-wagging at the girls involved and while recognizing that all sex and sexual performances aren't exploitative, we’re somehow seen as simply okaying it using feminism.

This is the crux of the argument. Of course it gets twisted in the MSM.

I think one of the most interesting comments that was mentioned is that for all the talk about the girls who appear in GGW no one spoke up who had actually talked to any woman who had done it and their feelings about it. Even the women who do appear in these DVDs seem to be props in the debate; figures to be either lectured, defended or supported. They’re just symbols in the debate. And since they aren’t real and we’re not talking about an actual experience, just an abstract, suddenly the debate isn’t about GGW, but about all things sex and nudity and whether it reflects well or poorly on ALL women.

Speaking of which, who will own up to having actually watched these tapes? I watched about 10 minutes of College Girls Gone Wild and I was amazed how manipulative the entire transaction was that was caught on film. You could just feel the ooze as Joe Francis (not seen but I’m pretty sure that was him) successively asked the girls to go farther and farther. (First breasts, then vagina, then maybe touching yourself or kissing another girl…Francis knew how to keep asking for more and more and more exposure.) But you could also tell when a girl had hit her level. They had a limit, but there was also group dynamics and situational power involved. I heard a lot of “I’ll do it if my friend does.�

I think some of us want to just talk about GGW specifically without to drag in everything from burlesque to girls wearing “Bitch� t-shirts into the conversation. And if you want to talk about GGW, then lets deal in specifics instead of abstractions.

Anybody remember that sketch on SNL last year or the year before about the young women going on Spring Break (being dropped off by their parents at the airport) talking about all the wild crazy things they were going to do and how they were going to be in GGW? And then they started talking about their majors and two of them were "Women's Studies" majors? It was funny, but did bring to mind, is this funny because it would be soooo odd to be a GGW and a feminist or are feminists all GGW's. I thought it was funny because I couldnt' really imagine a Women's Studies major doing GGW because hey its totally commercial and Joe Francis is a creep, not so much the sex bit of it. But still, how the Right Wing has appropriated "victim" language to talk about the poor oppressed "Christians", they're not appropriating feminist language to talk about conforming to the patriarchy. Its spin and its like "compassionate conservatism"--just because you say your "compassionate" doesn't mean you are...certainly Bush's policies reflect no conception of what the word itself means, let alone compassion in action. Words matter, the Right gets that now, and we need to take our language back.

Peace

I mean to say:

they're NOW appropriating feminist language to talk about conforming to the patriarchy.

Now, not "Not"

Sorry

(long-ass post alert):

I think, for the most part, "going wild" is symptomatic of a more generalized collusion with (and acceptance of) the forces of male dominance. For example, the friends I grew up with in upstate NY, well, let's just say we did plenty of going wild in our heyday, and still do on the rare occasion when we're all together. Sometime last summer when I was visiting for a week or so, we were standing outside a bar--loud, drinking, smoking, probably already a little buzzed. We ranged in age from 18-26. A dude approached us and TOLD us to come on the "party bus" for free drinks (said bus being a tinted window having tour bus that, from the looks of it, was totally deserted inside and surrounding by shuffling young dudes outside trying to invite girls inside). We basically laughed in his face, mocked the shit out of him, and told him to stop bothering us. Free drinks? Cool. Free drinks on a sketchy-ass bus with a dude trying to hustle us aboard? Hell to the no. As teenagers, and now as adults with teenaged sisters, my friends and I would never let each other get bossed into a compromising man-controlled situation like Girls Gone Wild, drunk or sober. Now, I do burlesque, I like to skinnydip, I drink until I'm drunk sometimes, but I'm also constitutionally not prone to go along with a man asking me to do something just because he tells me to.

On the other hand, there are a lot of girls who are more than happy to do just that, and even think it's "sexy" or "just teasing" to be bossed around by assholes. THAT is scarier to me than the faux-empowerment. What about the women who actually like, giggle, and happily go along with GGW? That attitude, to me, belies a significant population of women who simply don't give a shit that men are in control, possibly think it's funny, and are just happy for the free trucker hat.

And I know this makes me sound like a hater. I'm not trying to blame or shame these women, because that just adds to the divisiveness, but...I don't know, how do we get Jessica's book in their hands?!

What about the women who actually like, giggle, and happily go along with GGW? That attitude, to me, belies a significant population of women who simply don't give a shit that men are in control, possibly think it's funny, and are just happy for the free trucker hat.

Ugh, I know what you mean. I guess they've been force-fed the idea that success = getting boys to like you.
How do we get the message across that: those boys don't really like you; they hate you.
How do we convince young women that their boobs aren't the most interesting things about them?

I think things are only going to get worse...
I didn't grow up with Paris Hilton as a "role model." Today's girls are...

I need to properly collect my thoughts on this, but I think it has to do with the culture telling young girls that being young and hot is their best asset. Whether it's MTV focusing their reality programming on people in high school, GGW ads, or some other nebulous factor, it seems like girls in high school are told that between 16 and 21 they're at their most desireable and to strike while the iron's hot. I went into a sex shop yesterday with a friend and we were both a little disturbed at how many toys for women there had little animal figures on them or animal faces somewhere. And the packaging looked like something out of a Lisa Frank ad, "Dazzling Dolphin" was one that really stuck out. It's either making older women act younger (cause I'm 20 and I already don't want a damn dolphin accessorizing my vibrator) or it's trying to appeal to younger and younger women. I feel like GGW is partly to blame for this trend towards the barely/not legal girls being sexualized so heavily. The emphasis on "college girls" rather than "women" in general in the videos is an example. I've never seen the videos, but I doubt there's many women over the age of 22 in them. I'd probably feel better about the whole enterprise if I felt like they were going after beautiful women in general, but from what I've seen it's almost exclusively REALLY YOUNG women, and that's what gets me. Yeah, some 18 year olds can say "I'm going to show my tits on camera because I want to, and not because that fucktard behind the camera thinks I should" but I doubt that's the thought process most of the time.

Plus, Joe Francis just comes off as a total skeeve. I believe he goes after young women for the same reason all skeevy guys go after young women, they're easier to manipulate. More mature women are more likely to tell him exactly where he can stick his free tee shirt.

Genny, I could quote the parts of your post I want to echo but I'd end up including the whole thing.

I've given a lot of thought to the infantilization of women (thanks partly to Jessica and other feminist writers), and I noticed it BIG TIME when I went into Forever 21 recently. Granted, a lot of people who shop there probably ARE technically "girls," but the themes in the clothing were so childish. Everything reminds me of stuff I wore in pre-school (and not because it's "80's").

Also, I bring up your last point a lot when my guy friends ogle "barely-legal" looking girls or openly fantasize about high-schoolers. They always get all "scientific" and claim that as men, they're wired to find "women" between the ages of 13-20 most attractive - they just can't help it. Personally, I think they fantasize about 16 year olds because they know they could get away with more with girls that young. That, and they don't want a partner who challenges them in any way.

My boyfriend and I were watching Comedy Central one night when a GGW commercial came on. I said something about how the sight of my breasts was worth a whole lot more than a free t-shirt or hat (and not because they're so great). He was shocked. Couldn't believe these girls were doing that for so little compensation.

What does it say when even the men expect us to get more for our sexualization than we're willing to ask for?

Again, not pointing fingers. I just wish people had a better sense of their own worth. Not necessarily in monetary value, but in general.

I'm probably going to be beaten to a pulp for my following statements, but I really feel like I need to put it out there.

I think what I find most frustrating about this conversation—whenever it seems to happen—is how young feminist discourse about sex somehow always gets compared to, and talked about in relation to, the very trendy Girls Gone Wild theme.

What also upsets me about this conversation (and all the GGW hype) is that it frames most young women as being participants in this kind of culture--as if we're all just dying to be Paris Hilton. The young women I know are doing amazing, political, active things, and are a far cry from the creepy-shirt-wearing, wild gals I keep hearing about from the media.

What has always been most disturbing to me about pornography and other sex-related entertainment (including sex workers) is how much it affects women who are not necessarily involved. Anyone of my friends will tell you that I am not prude when it comes to discussing and having sex, but the actions of other women (and men) in the sex industry are so pervasive in today's society that I would say that it almost robs other women (and men) of having a choice in their own personal lives. It almost seems like those involved are given a plethora of choices, while the rest of the world picks off of a messy buffet of the side effects. Because of the feminist attitude towards sexual liberation, almost any kind of raunchy, high-sexed behavior coming off of a woman can be perverted into radical feminist practice. Even my boyfriend, who is not particularly on the up-and-up of on-going feminist topics noticed this and said, "Of course men liked sexual liberation. The girls were saying 'well, we're going to have sex, and there's nothing you can do about it' and the boys were going 'oh no -- please don't do that, please don't take your top off, please don't suck my dick' -- yeah fucking right."

But what happened to the girls who weren't exactly so eager? What happens to girls today who don't do the GGW thing? They're scorned, just like the girls we call 'whores' in the videos.

To me, it just seems like one group of women is going one way while another group goes another; just one is having alot more fun. But no one is making progress. No one is making women more equal. No one is making men take women seriously.

I'm overweight, intelligent, dissenting, and assertive, and I don't have sex for a reason (and it's not because I don't want it), and though I wouldn't even begin to blame the girls for it, I'm fairly certain that Girls Gone Wild is not making my life any easier. I want it to end, and, someday, I want women to have the freedom in this world to actually get in touch with what they want, for real, without the over-bearing influence of a man's idea of sex. Of course, hasn't this always been a feminists dream?

How do we get the message across that: those boys don't really like you; they hate you.
How do we convince young women that their boobs aren't the most interesting things about them?

You tell them. And you model that for them (e.g., worrying more about defining yourself by what you do, not how you look). And you work to get images of women in the media that you think are positive. And you support media that shows images that you like (even if they're not perfect). And you buy feminist magazines. And...

Thanks for this post, Jessica. I hate it when people can't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that this is actually *complex* in a lot of ways (and holy crap, if I hear another wingnut attribute GGW-like behavior to third wave feminism, I will lose it).

This reminds me of the article in the LA Times magazine awhile back -- I for the life of me can't remember the reporter's name at the moment, but Joe Francis assaulted her during the day she spent interviewing him. What is more relevent to this post is the fact that she *did* intervew several of the women who were eagerly bouncing about in the bar waiting for Francis to liquor them up and start taping -- the most overwhelming reason these young women gave for participating was the chance for celebrity, the chance to, as one young woman put it, to be able to demand anything of anyone and get it ("if I'm a celebrity, I can go into anyone's house and say, 'I want this', and I'll get it").

That scared me more than anything; to these women, Joe Francis was a celebrity. Did they feel like they could deny him anything?

I feel like the conversation we need to have here is about how to alter the foundations of a society where a woman's body is the most lucrative good she has to sell/trade. This could apply to all kinds of related issues -- sex workers, porn actresses (sorry if those are the same category). I mean, the first step (the band-aid fix) would be to make sure women in these industies are well-paid and well-treated. But the next step is to make it so that women aren't forced into these industries due to financial duress.

Sorry. Pretend that second paragraph is also in italics.

That scared me more than anything; to these women, Joe Francis was a celebrity. Did they feel like they could deny him anything?

Hmmm...that celebrity aspect is an interesting dynamic. If it wasn't *brand-name* Girls, Gone Wild, these women wouldn't pose. It's the cult of celebrity drawing them in rather than the cult of anyomous sexual power. It kind of also plays into bettieclem's story about a RANDOM dude with a party bus. Not that I'm saying if he wasn't random would they have gotten on but it might have felt "safer" or more inviting if it had been The Playboy Bus or something.

Also about celebrity, I seem to recall a famous ancedote from "I'm With The Band" when Barbara Hershey (herself a famous actress) was amazed the author could turn down Warren Beatty. The pull of celebrity is so magnetic, even for nobodies and has-beens.

I can't believe I'm about to admit to this...on feministing.com of all places...but I once bared my breasts and made out with my friend on camera to get a GGW tank top.

I had just turned 21 and my roommates decided to go to a GGW party. I didn't want to go, but they talked me into it, so I went under the pretense that I'd be there to look after them. 2 of the 3 girls I lived with barely 18 and, drunk on their first taste of freedom, had a tendency to..well...go wild. So I convinced myself that I'd only be going to big sister them.

We had to sign consent forms before they'd let us in the building. I explained that I had no intention of being on camera but they made me sign it anyway in case I happened to walk in front of a camera and end up in part of a video. So I signed and we went in.

I wasn't sure what to expect although I honestly thought the male to female ratio would be a little more equal. Girls got in free but the cover for guys was around 30 dollars. The male to female ratio was about 3:1 and it was pretty intimidating.

After being in the club for about 15 minute a camera guy approached us and invited us to the VIP room. I asked him if we'd have to go on camera and he said it was totally up to us but there were free drinks and it wasn't so crowded. He suggested we go to "relax". So we went.

At that point in my life, I was really struggling with my identity. I had recently decided I know longer believed in the religion I was brought up with and I was trying to figure out where to go from there. I was also dealing with a recent sexual assault and had started sleeping around a lot...I guess I thought if I kept saying yes then no one could rape me again.

Anywho (sorry this is getting so long)we went to the VIP where we got loaded (including my 18-year old roommates). Tons of free alcohol. There was a guy in there who had a bunch of cocaine, which I managed to abstain from. So we sat and we drank and we watched as a parade of girls came in to get naked and make out with their girlfriends or masturbate on camera. Eventually one of my roommates decided to take her top off and the camera guy asked if I would go kiss her. For some reason, I agreed. And then I got all caught up in the excitement and played along. I was so drunk at the time that it seemed like a good idea, like I was just having fun.

The camera guy invited the 4 of us onto the party bus. I didn't go, but a couple of the other girls did. My friend and I went back out into the club and started dancing and that's when the whole thing started to bother me. Although it didn't bother me enough to turn down the offer to get a free tank top for taking my top off again and making out with my roommate. So I did it. I even said "Denver loves Girls Gone Wild" (not one of my finest moments. At some point during our little show in the middle of the dance floor, a guy in the crowd surrounding us reached over and groped me. Then reality came crashing in and I got the fuck out of there.

I felt horrible the whole way home and I felt horrible all the next day and still, when I think about it, I feel pretty damn stupid. And I still don't know why I did it. I was, actually a women's studies minor...and at 21, I really should've known better. I guess I was in a weird place after the assault and the deconstruction of my faith. I dunno. It was dumb.

I only share this to say that in my experience, none of those girls did it cause they thought it was empowering. Maybe that's what they came up with to say afterwards. And I doubt they all look at it like a huge mistake, but I'm proof that not every girl is proud of her decision the next morning.

It's definitely an oppressive, manipulative environment. When I thought about it I realized the camera guys were nice about my insistence not to go on camera cause they knew I'd be singing a different tune after a couple drinks. The momentum of the night probably had a lot to do with it too. When all the girls are doing it, it doesn't seem that weird. When you've seen a hundred girls take their shirts off, it doesn't seem like a big deal for you to do the same.

I'm not defending GGW. I fucking hate Joe Francis (although I dont' think he was even at that event) and I discourage women from putting themselves in that sort of situation. I know if it happened now, I'd make a different decision. Actually, I would never have been there to begin with.

But just like I'm sure there are some girls who to GGW parties cause they just want the attention and they have fucked up ideas about sexuality and they don't understand how powerless thy are, there are also girls who get caught up in it and let themselves be manipulated and whose only fault is not really knowing who they are yet (like anyone does at that age).

So it is a complicated issue. And I resent the way the media portrays it and I am thoroughly annoyed when people say that it's a "feminist" act or that it's "empowering". But I also feel bad for the girls like me who go along with it and then hate themselves even more afterwards.

And...I'm done.... Sorry this was so long, just wanted to give you folks an insiders perspective on he whole horrible, misogynist instituion that is Girls Gone Wild.

As a rule, I make a point not to judge other people's sexual choices. I don't use words like "prude" or "slut" to describe women. How much sex is "enough" varies by the individual, and what would be "too much" for one person would be "too little" for another. I respect the woman who is at ease with her high libido and speaks frankly about her enjoyment of sex, and I respect the woman who says she's "saving herself" for someone she loves, or for marriage, or just until she's "ready." Sex is too personal and individual a thing to standardize.
I do, however, think that one must be self-aware and able to make informed decisions when it comes to sex--and emotional problems, a history of abuse, or drunkenness can certainly compromise that.

As such, I rather worry about the young women on GGW and The Real World, Paris Hilton, et al. I think they've grown up in a shallow culture where the ultimate goal is brief celebrity and external attractiveness--and now they're wondering, subconsciously perhaps, if that's really all there is. They've been told all they're lives that their goal is to be an object--but being an object isn't all that fulfilling. I sometimes wonder if all the binge drinking and exaggerated sexuality isn't just indicative of a desire for something...more. And I find that really sad.

"How do we convince young women that their boobs aren't the most interesting things about them?"
Passing on the URL to this blog might be a good start. I think the regular commenters here have a lot of good ideas to impart—even those with dissenting views are good at presenting their arguments in thought-provoking ways. Young women looking to learn more about feminism could do a lot worse.

OT: I think Colleen may have beat me out for longest post ever.
*shakes fist at sky* "Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhnnnnnn!"*

*Ok, so I'm a huge geek.

I was wondering as I was writing my post if any Feministing girls had ever "gone wild". Now we know.

It is interesting to hear the story behind enemy lines, what it would be like to be in that setting, which is totally why I don't blame the girls. Just like every other woman making their way through this crazy, misogynistic world, we're all just trying to find the easiest way to get by while not being so miserable. I have to say that it hardly ever works.

I have to ask -- when you left, as you were leaving and feeling bad, did it feel like something had been taken from you? I always figured that it could feel somewhat like rape.

I'll chime in an agree with Andrea that there is something to be said about these young women hoping to become "celebrities" from these videos. It's the same shit that Playboy and rap videos have been peddling their models for years, that if you pose it'll "open" doors for you to modeling or to acting, when in reality it hurts your chances because if you do Playboy/video first then it's hard for people to look past your nude spread or ass shaking. In the over 50 years of Playboy honestly how many of those women, sometimes several a month, have made that into a career? Some of them might not have been trying but really there's not that many and then when you do you're like Pamela Anderson or Carmen Electra or Jenny McCartny (sp?) where you are forever an object of sexual desire/sexual object.

Add to that the influence of celebrity "porn" tapes which seem to be popping up more and more now as they are "leaked" to the media. The last girl, Paris Hilton's ex friend Kim Kardashian (sp) got five million for hers and now everyone knows her name. There isn't the big stigma of being in porn like their used to be (and don't get me wrong, there is still a stigma) and some hungry young women who probably don't have too much talent *cough*Paris Hilton*cough* beyond looking pretty figure that that is how they can make some quick money without putting in the time or effort or patience.

As porn has become more main stream there has developed a culture of get cash now while you can using what you can. Not that it's the best example (actually, it's probably the worst) but if you've seen the movie the "Player's Club" which is about stripping, the stripper's motto was "I've got to use what I got to get what I want," and they used sex to get material goods.

Speaking of which, has anyone brought up the culture of materialism that we now live in? I believe it's far worse than it used to be and that could also be a contributing factor. Some of the girls might figure that they get a t-shirt now, but if they're seen by someone from say, Vivid, that could lead to bigger money.

Colleen--thank you so much for sharing your story.

And here is the link to the LA Times story, which I know has appeared on this site, but anyway, voila:

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-gonewild32aug06,0,5620406.story?page=1&track=mostviewed-homepage

Holy crap, Colleen. I'm sorry you went through that, and for what it's worth I don't think that you necessarily "should have known better" at age 21. Everyone goes through their own shit at different ages -- hell, under the right circumstances you can coerce almost anybody into things like that, and it definitely sounds like those circumstances were intentionally put into place at the GGW party.

Also, if anybody's interested in revisiting the completely terrifying account that Claire Hoffman wrote about Joe Francis and Girls Gone Wild, it's right here.

Colleen, just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience.

vervain-sorry to steal some of your lengthy-post glory. it wasn't intentional.

ikkin-
it did kind of feel like something had been taken from me. but at the same time, it was something i gave up, so it wasn't entirely their fault. in that way, it was similar to being assaulted. they set you up to fall. they know the formula works. so even though i had the chance to say no, the environment said yes for me. i knew somewhere in my head that i had a choice, but everything was pointing to me just going along with it. i was getting attention and i knew if i didn't go along with it that would be taken away. it didn't occur to me until later that it wasn't attention i really wanted.

I have never been able to believe that there is anything empowering or feminist about GGW. The "male gaze" is classically at work here, and wherever the "male gaze" dominates there cannot be an underlying assumption of woman's equality. The balance of power is completely out of whack. GGW is obviously intended to be for the consumption of heterosexual men almost exclusively -- how can that not feed the patriarchy? It certainly does not resist it in the least. Being sexually empowered body & soul for your own satisfaction is one thing; claiming empowerment in order to feel temporarily desired by strange men is totally different IMHO. I think GGW just shows how confused young women still are about what being "sexually empowered" even means, and in a sexist culture we will often grasp at taboo straws if only to see what being a "bad girl" feels like for a night. I also think there are soooo many college girls out there with low self-esteem who just want to feel special (I used to be one of them) -- but personally I don't believe that low self-esteem + binge drinking is ever an equation that = true empowerment. But sometimes as a young person you can't figure that out until you try it for yourself....

I can definitely see the celebrity aspect at play here. A survey was done not too long ago of high school students and found that one of the top career aspirations for these kids was "celebrity." Not actor/singer/dancer - celebrity. Now, this could possibly have been the bias of the survey (they lumped all of those entertainment careers into the celebrity field) but I bet it's indicative of a larger movement towards being famous with the least amount of work. After all, what did Paris Hilton do to get famous? Be born with a famous last name. Women like Lindsey Lohan started out as getting famous for a burgeoning acting career, but now she's more famous for flashing (un?)suspecting photographers and going into rehab.

And I'd also like to thank Colleen for sharing her story. That's interesting that they had you sign the consent form while you were still sober - so many women have claimed they signed the contract while they were impaired so it shouldn't be valid. Does GGW do what they did to you sometimes and other times shove it in the face of an already drunk woman? Definitely a skeezy enterprise all around (you would think Francis & Co could at least get nailed with providing alcohol to underaged women!)

Oh, and also: bars that charge different covers for men and women freak me the hell out and I absolutely refuse to patron them. I've also seen bars/parties that charge a cheaper cover for women 18-22 than it does for men or older women. Again, freaks me out.

Colleen,

Thanks for talking about your experience, and even though I hate what Joe Francis does, I would still be happier if it magically translated to actual fun for the women who appear in his videos.

One of the things you said, about how getting semi-naked and making out with your friend felt pretty normalized because you were in a situation where that's what people were doing all around you - setting aside the issue of what's fucked up about GGW, it's an interesting and I think fairly common phenomenon. That is, when you're in an environment where everybody's getting naked and doing sex stuff, all the societal signals that make being naked and doing sex stuff "taboo" are gone. It IS normal in that context, and whatever weirdness a person might feel at being naked around a bunch of clothed folks can be the same weirdness he/she now feels at being clothed when everyone else is naked. I don't think being clothed or naked, making out with your friends or not, are inherently good or bad things. I do think it's easy to understand why you felt comfortable in those moments doing what you did. I still wish it hadn't been in a context that left you feeling shitty afterwards. Joe Francis sucks.

I've always considered my boobs a privilage, not a right, but clearly that makes me old fashioned in today's culture. But then, I also don't consider Paris Hilton a role model and I'm not really on a quest to become a celebrity.

Colleen, I'm glad you felt comfortable sharing your experiences here. I understand how a situation like that would make it a lot harder to stick to your original intentions. I'm sorry you had to go through everything that you did, and I hope that you're in a better place now.

SarahMC I'm glad you understand what I mean about infantilizing women. It was all very confused in my head between the dazzling dolphin vibrators and the fact that the tapes are called GIRLS gone wild and not WOMEN or LADIES gone wild, and blah. I'm only 20 and I know with my family's genetics I'm likely to live well past my 70's, I seriously hope that I'm not at my sexual peak now the way the media would like me to believe.

Hey, has anyone seen the latest on Joe Francis? Turns out he repeatedly groped a woman at a fancy dinner in Florida. My very favorite part comes at the end, where his lawyer laments that all this is happening to poor widdle Joey all at once, and says that "the timing of this isn't coincidental." Well, no, assbag, it's not, because with all his other legal problems, people are finally realizing that they're not his only victims and that he's not entirely untouchable when it comes to the law.

young feminist discourse about sex somehow always gets compared to, and talked about in relation to, the very trendy Girls Gone Wild theme. (Jessica's original post)

I, too, get incredibly frustrated that the only wavelength people seem to have when it comes to sex is the performance-oriented "gone wild" culture. Discourse about sex is probably one of the most important conversations we need have, as feminists of all ages. Not only is it important in and of itself, it also have an incredible bearing on our conversations about reproductive justice and family life.

Feminists aren't going to agree 100% on what "feminist" sex looks like. What is so frustrating is that the media latches onto any disagreement within the feminist community and turns it into a virgins vs. whores narrative (talk about lack of nuance!). If we talk pro-sex, we must be sluts (naturally), and sluts (naturally) all love getting sloshed and baring their breasts for amateur porn!

Because of the feminist attitude towards sexual liberation, almost any kind of raunchy, high-sexed behavior coming off of a woman can be perverted into radical feminist practice. (ikkin)

I'm not really sure it's because of feminist attitudes that this happens, ikkin. Maybe you could say we haven't been successful enough at influencing the broader culture. I remember Ariel Levy pointing out, in Female Chauvinist Pigs, that the "porn wars" and discord about sex within the feminist community in the '80s left a cultural vacuum around the idea of sexual liberation, which was filled by raunch culture. But that's not the same as feminism encouraging/celebrating raunch culture (in my opinion).

Clearly, regardless of who's responsibility it is, we need to keep shouting from the rooftops and making spaces for alternative conversations about sexuality to happen (like here on feministing!). Maybe (hopefully) someday more people will realize what an awesome thing we have going on!

Colleen, thank you for sharing. I spotted an aside in your story and I wanted to say something about it. You wrote:

"I was also dealing with a recent sexual assault and had started sleeping around a lot...I guess I thought if I kept saying yes then no one could rape me again."

I have heard more than a few women say that right after a sexual assualt, they had a lot of partnered sex. Some have said that it was to pile up as many good (or even mediocre) experiences between their present and the rape as possible, some to feel like they still controlled their sex lives, some for the reason you said. And maybe you know other women who have acted the same way or maybe you don't, but I wanted you to know that you're not alone in reacting that way.

Also, the entire GGW enterprise is a huge exercise in patriarchal exploitation and I think all the "models" should have three days to rescind their consent (the idea isn't mine; it came out of the many blog threads following Garance Franke-Ruta's suggestion of a requirement that porn models be 21 or over, and in particular the thread on Feministe). That would almost certainly shut them down.

Colleen, if you could have emailed and withdrawn consent to use the footage any time up to 72 hours later, would you have? It sounds like you would. I'm guessing that this is true of somewhere between 85 and 95 percent of the women that appear in their videos.

I didn't mean that it was the fault of feminism, as a result of our attitude, but it's kind of like we said sexual reponse and activity was a good thing, and then society just ran with it. As far as they could go.

And I would follow Ariel Levy to the end of the earth. That book was so articulate. Amazing, I loved it.

Agreed :).

And yeah, there were some minor disagreements I had with Levy, but loved the book. It really encouraged me to speak out in support of a richer cultural discourse about sexuality.