I saw this somewhere else — don't remember where now (other than Digg, that is) — and the same thing happens with "she succeeded" and "she led," but it offers no suggested corrections for "she failed" or "she followed."

I don't think, though I may be mistaken, that this says anything much about Google itself. After all, Google's job is to help searchers get to the page they're looking for, so presumably their suggestion engine works from some sort of analysis of the indexed web pages. That is, I think it's likely that Google is accurately depicting a biased source, i.e. the subset of the English-language part of the Internet where words like "succeeded," "failed," "invented," "followed" and "led" are commonly used.

Now what this says about Google, well I leave that to you. . .

It says nothing, since Google's search engine is a formula.

I picked this book up once, in a fit of anger over my daughter assuming the same thing - that women don't invent things:

"1001 Things Everyone Should Know About Women's History" by Constance Jones
(link goes to Amazon page)

Fascinating reading - 1001 descriptions of women throughout history who succeeded in various pursuits.

(Also, above posters are correct in saying that Google's search results are based on what the algorithm finds in indexed pages.)

smadin and JunieB have already said what I wanted to, that it is not Google, but users of Google and the algorithm. If they're inputing "he invented" then that is what is most commonly being searched for...

That sounds like a great read, JunieB. I'll have to pick that up myself. :)

Also, what's wrong with D&D geeks? We're not all misogynistic teenage boys.

I tried "A Scotsman left a substantial tip" and that goddamned algorithm spat out "Are you fucking kidding me?"

Huh. It asked me "Did you mean 'A Scotswoman left a substantial tip'?".

I thought google just suggests alternatives if it doesn't find a lot of results for your particular phrase, but it finds a lot of results for a close but different phrase.

Similarly, though:
Last week I googled "stay home father" and it asked me if I meant "stay home mother"

As a twenty-something, feminist female D&D player, I just want to say that my level 6 sorceress just sent a magic missile to whoever thinks women didn't invent anything. *evil grin* Seriously, the whole idea is ludicrous. What about Hedy Lamarr? Besides being an actress, she co-invented "spread spectrum", which I guess according to Wikipedia is part of wireless communications. And that is just the first female inventor I could think of. Like others have said (very well, I might add) Google’s results are more a reflection of programming responding to gender bias in society than actual reality. Now if you excuse me, I have to go read my Monster Manual…

Last month I was looking for commentary on the WNBA draft and so googled "WNBA draft" and Google asked did you mean "NBA draft"? Um, no. I actually care more about women basketball players. Surprise!

Man, I gotta admit glancing through those Digg comments is pretty depressing.

"What did she invent? And if SHE didn't then what are the historical, social, racial, economic and gendered reasons for that?"

As today's WashPost shows, she didn't invent, achieve, lead etc. because she was told she was forced to give up her space to make room for men:

Female Would-Be Mercury Astronauts Honored

"What did she invent? And if SHE didn't then what are the historical, social, racial, economic and gendered reasons for that?"

As today's WashPost shows, she didn't invent, achieve, lead etc. because she was forced to give up her space to make room for men:

Female Would-Be Mercury Astronauts Honored

As a female computer geek, I agree that Google isn't suggesting or assuming anything. It runs on algorithms. If you searched for "aksjbdjfw" but more commonly linked-to sites say "Bksjbdjfw", the latter would be offered as a "did you mean". If you want to change the Google result, you should starting forming webpages that popularize the phrase "she invented" to the extent that the "did you mean" won't click in anymore. It'll be long and arduous, but that is the bane of pageranking and popularity algorithms.

Google is designed to be helpful. It is helpful to receive alternative search suggestions when you may have used the wrong keyword or spelling. This feature has been helpful to me countless times.

Gah.

Now what this says about Google, well I leave that to you. . .

It says nothing, since Google's search engine is a formula.

Also, as another 20-something D&D player, I find comments such as the one cleverly struck above as ignorant and childish.

Okay guys, IT'S NOT GOOGLE'S FAULT. WE ALL GET THE POINT.

Now, I think Samhita could have as easily asked: WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT WEBSITE-MAKERS, PEOPLE SEARCHING ON GOOGLE, AND OUR SOCIETY?

So in my mind, most of the post is still valid. And if you guys read through that Digg thread, it totally merited a counter blog on feministing.

Seriously, the whole idea is ludicrous. What about Hedy Lamarr? Besides being an actress, she co-invented "spread spectrum", which I guess according to Wikipedia is part of wireless communications. And that is just the first female inventor I could think of.

Isn't that what Dr. Kleiner named his pet headcrab in HL2?

Now, I think Samhita could have as easily asked: WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT WEBSITE-MAKERS, PEOPLE SEARCHING ON GOOGLE, AND OUR SOCIETY?

So in my mind, most of the post is still valid. And if you guys read through that Digg thread, it totally merited a counter blog on feministing.

Did it? I almost never use pronouns in web-searches because they're too ambiguous. I can't think of a search where adding "he" to it would be more precise. I think all that really says is some people who use search engines are dumb/illogical/inefficient, and that skews the search engine towards dumb.

As for website-makers: if you mean the folks at Google itself, the phenomena of Google-bombing should have exposed the fact that, regardless of how much better their search engine might be than others, there are some serious flaws in the site. I'm not sure what other website makers you might be talking about.

As for what it says about our society, I refer to this cartoon:
"Why can't the interwub just be informational and entertaining? Why does it got to be an experience of gut-wrenching horror and depravity?"
"The internet is an uncensored representation of the true human condition."
http://www.overcompensating.com/posts/20060923.html

So, it says our society sucks, but we knew that coming in.

I guess you can argue an angry and ignorant response here compensates for a few hundred ignorant and sexist responses over at Digg, but the fact remains this post was made in ignorance and isn't really something I'd be recommending anyone read.

I think the comparison of "woman doctor", "woman professor", and "woman lawyer" to "male nurse" is a false parallel to make.

Language is used in a context of male dominance and sex inequality so it will be used to the benefit of men. We learn to think of doctors, lawyers, scientists, and professors as male. The harmful assumption is that women aren't intelligent, hardworking, or rational enough to be in these occupations. We even unconsciously (sometimes consciously) encourage boys and young men to become scientists, doctors, and professors...to go into science and math. We tend to encourage girls and young women to go into teaching, nursing, and other service work. Since women's work is devalued in this society, nurses, teachers, secretaries, flight attendants, etc. are low-paying careers, which offer little room for advancement and most of them have a low prestige. Remember that the average nursing salary didn't go up considerably until men started entering the profession.

All of this is to say that when we refer to a doctor as a "woman doctor" we're saying that she is a doctor IN SPITE OF her gender. What we imply is that she has gone beyond what we expect of her and her "abilities" as a woman in becoming a medical professional. On the other hand, when we say "male nurse" we are implying that we do not expect men to work below their "abilities" and become nurses. After all, we all know that's a woman's job...or so the sterotype goes.

Phrases like "Male nurse" don't hurt men or reinforce harmful stereotypes about men. Rather, they reinforce the old stereotype that service jobs and jobs where you help the "real" professional (i.e. doctor) are for women. This stereotype has real world consequences. Girls are channeled into occupations that pay less and have low prestige...which leads to the wage gap. Women who do go into professions dominated by men are seen as "bitches" who likely "slept their way to the top."

In other words, for men, gender works to their benefit and for women, gender works against them. That's sounds obvious but we need to keep that in mind so we don't make inaccurate comparisons between how gender affects women and how it affects men.

It says nothing, since Google's search engine is a formula.
I agree that Google isn't suggesting or assuming anything. It runs on algorithms.

I call bullshit.

The alternate search result thing is a great feature, particularly on easily misspelled phrases. If I leave a letter off, and google catches it, and asks if I meant something else, that's one thing. "She" isn't a misspelling- it's an actual word. In the case of "She invented" you get over 2 million results. That's a pretty large number of results. Sure, "He invented" gives you more, but it's not like 2 million is a paltry number. It may be an algorithm that google uses that's causing this result... but who designed the algorithm? Did the algorithm just appear in a vacuum?

Notice that when you put in "she cooked" it doesn't make any alternate suggestion, and you get 1.6 million results. Put in "he cooked" and you get just over 3 million results, but it asks "Did you mean: he looked". "He looked" gives you 51.6 million hits. "She looked" gives you 32.7 million hits. Why didn't it ask me if I meant "she looked" when I put "she cooked"?
There are only 17 times as many results for "he looked" as for "he cooked" but there are 20 times as many results for "she looked" as "she cooked". Interesting.

Of course it's an algorithm... the question is why is the algorithm giving the results that it's giving. Even if no bias was intended, that doesn't mean that there might not be. It's certainly questionable that it suggests you mean to look for men instead of women inventing things (a stereotypically male activity) or that you didn't really mean to look for men cooking but did for women (a stereotypically female activity). It does the same damn thing with "she created" (58.8 million hits) and "she built" (56.5 million hits) and "she designed" (52.4 million hits), even though all of those result in millions of hits.

I guess I feel that being ignorant in the sense that you've never been told the technicalities of how a search engine works, and ignorant in the sense that you're a sheltered, misogynistic asshole, are two horses of a different color.

But that's just me...

Incidentally, I used to like nerds. But lately I've started to resent their often damaged ability to focus on the big picture, their general lack of real world experience, and their general obsession with innane details.

hey jacqueline - i wrote an article about hedy once. she's fantastic. made her money looking glamorous, which she described as "easy - all you have to do is stand still and look stupid" (if i remember correctly) , and then offstage tried to figure out how to win the war! (as i'm sure you know, her spread-spectrum technology was part of her wartime defense efforts.) pretty cool person.

Roy...you're all kinds of cool.

that post last was directed at datashade, btw.

roymac, you are a smart man. way to go with the questioning what people tell you, and not just accepting things uncritically

"first what did she invent?"

Well, given tool usage and invention patterns among primates, she probably invented the knife, flint and striker, hammer, lever, and wheel.

Incidentally, I used to like nerds. But lately I've started to resent their often damaged ability to focus on the big picture, their general lack of real world experience, and their general obsession with innane details.

Nina, is it possible to have a thread where you DON'T make unfair assertions about an entire group of innocent people?

I realize that this is a feminist site, but it's also a humanist site and it's inappropriate for you to constantly be casting aspersions on groups that you don't belong to.

We have many good self-proclaimed "nerds" on feministing and just because they don't think exactly like you doesn't mean that they can't see the big picture or they're focused on "innane" details.

So, in the future, please stop slagging off folks for no good reason. Thx.

The commenters on Digg.com are the dregs of the earth.

search engines don't "know" anything except how to follow rules. one rule a search engine might follow is to auto-correct a phrase to a more commonly used version of it, hence this auto-correction. a search engine could also be trained to automatically avoid auto-correcting "he" to "she", but then you're leaving up to the computer scientists to think of that, which quite innocently, they might not. have. this isn't a conspiracy, folks. it may be a reflection of actual content on the web - which, like everything else in the world - probably does have a bias towards males.

Well, because it's not been mentioned yet, I thought I should point out the recent post by Peter Norvig, How to Write a Spelling Corrector.

It explains how Google's algorithm probably works. The upshot is that it compares your search query with some corpus and determines whether you made a mis-spelling by looking at relative frequences of words in that corpus.

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess the corpus we're talking about here is "the web". A google search on "she invented" (with quotes) came up with 137,000 results. A similar search for "he invented" produced a little over 1 million hits. That might go some way to explaining the reason for it weighting one over the other.

Bear in mind however that your Google results are *always* skewed by your location. I get a lot of Dutch results even though I'm in the UK, because I go through a proxy in the Netherlands. I don't know what the comparative frequency of he/she are in Dutch ;-) but I do know that if I search for the name of my blog both from the UK or via the Netherlands I'm given different alternative suggestions. So I'd guess your locale plays a difference on the corpus they use (or the weighting of the words).

So, as a poster above mentioned, the only real way to change this is to write lots of web pages with the phrase "she invented". About 900,000 pages, in fact! :-)

As a female computer geek I'll also question the algorithm at work here – I wonder if all it is doing is seeing that there is a very similar search that has even more hits? Either way, I think it is probably highlighting web sites and web searchers biases rather than google’s (but I could be wrong not knowing a thing about the actual mechanic of their programming).

As an aside, for the second time in the last few weeks there has been an anti-gamer geek comment in a post here (“because there is nothing cuter than young gamers who already have fucked up ideas about women�). I responded last time though for some reason it wasn’t posted….but I’ll say it again in the hopes that this time it will make it thought whatever filter kept my last post out – as a site that is explicitly hoping to draw young feminists to the cause, could we please stop assuming gamers are male, teenage, misogynists? Increasing numbers of women game, especially teens. By belittling them we are doing exactly what we complain about older feminists doing.

I know this seems like a small point but I’m trying to convince some of the young teen age girls in my life that it is cool to be a feminist pointing them to feministing and this kind of thing makes them feel dismissed as potential feminists since they consider themselves hoss gamer chicks.

"Incidentally, I used to like nerds. But lately I've started to resent their often damaged ability to focus on the big picture, their general lack of real world experience, and their general obsession with innane details."

Here's why that is problematic, Nina:

Incidentally, I used to like WOMEN. But lately I've started to resent their often damaged ability to focus on the big picture, their general lack of real world experience, and their general obsession with innane details.

I wonder if all it is doing is seeing that there is a very similar search that has even more hits?

I don't know exactly how google decides when to replace "she" with "he", but it's not based solely on a comparison of which page has more results- "she conquered" and "he conquered" both give you about 1.3 million results, but it still asks if you meant "he conquered" when you put "she" instead.

A few other words that will prompt it to ask if you mean "he" instead of "she": owned, operated, loaned, hit, shot, designed, and built. Not once does it ask if you meant "she" instead of "he", even if you find times where "she" gives you tons more responses (like, for example, "gave birth" in quotes).

Erin, could we please have a thread where you weren't attacking me personally? As I recall to date you have called me (well, to paraphrase) anti-feminist, anti-male, anti-white, stupid, crazy, and a horrible sister/daughter/lover.

A lot of people would call me a nerd. And as I recall this is the first time on feministing I've made a generalizing statement about a group of people like that (well, unless you're counting the time I knocked fratboy culture). And I said it was a generalizing statement. Doesn't mean I wasn't referring to a trend that actually exists.

Interesting results roymacIII. It doesn't make any of those suggestions for me, but still does for "she invented". What are everyone's locations?

(A thought just came to mind: I wonder if it adapts to search history, ie, if everyone continues to "verify" this claim it'll eventually go away because no-one will click-through the suggestion?)

http://www.google.com/jobs/britney.html

Here is a page everyone should check out to understand what is going on.

The numbers next to each phrase searched for (in this case, alterations of 'britney spears'), represent how many times that key phrase was typed into Google Search. Based on the most popular search, 'britney spears', if this phrase is typed into Google Search, there won't be any suggestions from google (since it is the most popular). On the other hand, if any of the other alterations are typed into Google Search, the suggestion will be the most popular, 'britney spears'.

If analyzing the 'she invented' phenomena, 'he invented' would be the most popular searched phrase that deviates one letter from it. Google's search algorithm looks for the most popular searched term and will suggest it to the user. This is why 'he searched' comes up as a suggestion for 'she searched', 'he looked' comes up for 'he cooked', and when searching for 'she cooked' no suggestions come up because it is the most popular searched term (with no other deviating searches that are more popular).

If that makes sense..

I just tried:

She gave birth

He gave birth

The latter of the two came up with more hits....

These type of thing really annoy me when it comes to "invention" in particular as so much revisionism occurs, and there is often other 'isms involved.

Here's a pair considered facts in our classrooms. Henry Ford invented the assembly line and Sam Colt invented interchageable parts. No both were in use in China THOUSANDS of years before.

I'd just like to put up another polite request to cease and desist with the negative stereotyping of gamers as misogynist males who never get laid. Do you not usually agree that women (and genuinely egalitarian men) trying to carve out a place for themselves in a male-dominated career or hobby deserve support?

I'm not surprised that "he gave birth" came up with so many more hits. Male pregnancy is a huge deal in fan fiction.

Speaking of inventors and geeks, I wonder how Sandra Lerner feels about the Google algorithm. Google her!

EG -
I've heard of slash, but that is just creepy. *shudder*

Ithika: Weird. I'm still getting the same results.

mizza: Hmm. It's interesting, though, because that list is full of complete misspellings. If you search for Britain Spears, it doesn't suggest "Britney Spears" even though Britney Spears is almost certainly a more popular search, and has roughly 30 times more results. Even replacing Britney with other real words that should yield far fewer results doesn't prompt the "Did you mean:" option- Breath, breathy, Britain, Britannia, Pithy, Piney, Printy, Printly.

Even if it's what you're suggesting- which it very well may be- I think it's still problematic, even if unintentional. "She" is only one letter different from "he" and I hope that, now that the unfortunate results have been noticed, I hope that google takes some steps to prevent this quirk from continuing.