OK, first of all, what is up with the models in those pictures? Why can't any of them stand up straight? Why are all they all slouching? Is there something wrong with them?

Here's the line that jumped out at me: "The majority of inquiries we've gotten so far were from professional girls - lawyers, doctors and especially bankers," said Paulette Cleghorn, head of sales and marketing for the Disney's Fairy Tale Weddings collection. "

Professional girls? Such as lawyers, doctors and bankers? I'm sorry, is this 1954? Those are women. What the fuck?

I'm completely confused about why the article interviewed 12-year-olds. They're not getting married--they're not the consumers for this nonsense.

OK, one more question: what on earth does the Snow White dress have to do with Snow White? If they sold the Witch Queen's gown and robe, I'd be into that.

The majority of inquiries we've gotten so far were from professional girls - lawyers, doctors and especially bankers," said Paulette Cleghorn,

To paraphrase my mother - are those offices violating child labor laws? What kind doctor or lawyer is described as a "girl" - a child playing pretend?

And I agree with the last (non-professional) girl - the dresses do need more colors.

Professional girls? Interviewing 12 year olds?

Does the Cinderella dress come with shoes stained with your step-sisters' blood? Will the Mulan dress be red? Can Disney go die in a fire?

Ugh.

Yeah, I blogged about this the other day. Sorry to so shamelessly self-promote. But it saves me from typing out my thoughts all over again.

That Jasmine dress looks nothing like what she's wearing at the end of the movie - just watch it here in Icelandic: http://youtube.com/watch?v=VCHHPv6Z_mg

I mean, if you're going to dress up as a Disney character on your wedding day, you should just go for broke. See if you can style your hair as a solid, easily animated blob while you're at it.

I always wanted to be an empress, not a princess. Disney failed me miserably.

Anyone who would dress like a Disney princess to her wedding is obviously not mature enough to get married in the first place.

Best. Comment. Ever., sojourner.

Jesus H., it's gotten worse. When news first broke, I saw an article on a wedding planning community. The first article was just as insulting, referring to women as a collective group who [paraphrasing here] "start out wanting something different, but always end up traditional".

But interviewing kids? Christ. It's a dumb world after all.

I'm completely confused about why the article interviewed 12-year-olds. They're not getting married--they're not the consumers for this nonsense.

Oh, but they are--the FUTURE consumers! I've always been amazed at the number of pre-teen and teenage girls who obsess about their "dream weddings" and spend hours pouring over wedding magazines. It's a seamless transition for the wedding industry: get them hooked on playing princess when they're little, and they'll grow up and play princess on their wedding day.

I don't really have anything against playing princess when you're, you know, four. Or even fourteen. (I always wore the dress AND carried a sword). But doing it when you're an adult (and on an occasion as serious as your wedding, not a costume party) is creepy.

This reminded me of an essay Naomi Wolf wrote, "brideland," in Rebecca Walker's anthology to be real. While she does some decent deconstruction of wedding symbolism and the industry, her conclusion was:

"in Brideland, men worship the goddess of female sexuality once again . . . the dream of the formal wedding, and the culture that surrounds it, demonstrates on some level how barren the world is for women when female sexuality is stripped of its aura . . . [we need new rituals] in which we can announce to the world that we are sexually priceless--and not just for one expensive day" (p. 40).

What the fuck?

http://disneybridal.com/

The Gown, The Slipper, The Kiss and The Prince. Under it all, every girl believes in the dream...

Hey man, speak for yourself.

With her bridal, Maidens and flower girl gowns, Kirstie Kelly creates a look that connects to every girl's inner princess.

This is just weird. What is with all the girliness here? I am not the same thing I was when I was 12, thankyouverymuch. What's wrong with "woman"? Gah.

(In all fairness, I think some of those dresses are kind of pretty, though. It sucks that they're being sold with such disgusting marketing).

OK, so I've been to the website, and I have to ask: what do any of those dresses have to do with the characters they're supposed to represent? They don't even look anything like the dresses the heroines wear in the movies! At all! It's sort of doubly insulting: we don't actually have to make a connection between the dress and the icon--just name it "Ariel" and those stupid chicks will buy it.

and on an occasion as serious as your wedding

I want to either laugh or gasp in horror when I think about this actually playing out as someone's wedding -- can you imagine? Friends and family all showing up for one of the few widespread and recognizeable rituals we still have left as a society, solemn vows and whatnot, and the bride's basically running around going "I'M A PRETTY PRETTY PRINCESS!!! A PRINCESS, YOU HEAR?!"

...

The dresses are pretty and elegant. That said, I would sooner poke out my eyes with flaming needles than do the "princess" routine, which never appealed to me even in my youth.

This is a larger issue of the wedding craze. The average amount spent on a wedding is something like $20,000, with many going into the six figures. I don't blame Disney for trying to cash in on it - what sensible corporation wouldn't? - but really, need we infantalise everyone in the process?

When are they coming out with Prince Charming tuxes and suits? Oh, wait, we let men be adults when they marry?

I hope they have an "Ariel" dress to satisfy my fish fetish. I've always wanted to marry a cod!

This is just weird. What is with all the girliness here? I am not the same thing I was when I was 12, thankyouverymuch. What's wrong with "woman"? Gah. - the_becca

Indeed ... what's with all the girliness ... we're talking about marriage here.

Not to sound to much like a "what about us men" MRA-type, but these "girls" are not just going to the altar alone, are they? And maybe I'm just speaking for myself here, but I'd be kinda grossed-out if my significant other was so keen on playing such a girlish role on our wedding day -- it would frame the situation as if I were some sort of pedophile or somethin' being married to a "girl" rather than a woman.

DAS,

That which is good for women has a remarkable way of being good for (rational, caring, adult) people. Don't apologise.

Heh, EG, you echoed many of my thoughts. See, this one is Ariel, 'cause it looks "fishy." See, there at the bottom? Just like a mermaid, can't you see??

But then I found this fabulous quote in the linked article: we've taken the moods of the princesses and updated them to be who they would be as today's women. Ah yes, you know "today's women" they just can't get enough of wicked stepmothers, trading in their entire identity for men, and being locked up by Beasts. That's "today's girl" all right!

I have to believe that this isn't really intended to sell Disney Princess themed weddings to adults. There's a reason the article was full of 12-year-olds; the dresses are sartorial press releases.

You get some hype when you announce that these things exist, and you get a bunch of advertising to your kid demo, who sees their hobby/obsession as being legitimized. It means more trips to the Disney store, and more selling their usual crap.

I think. I mean, I just can't imagine them really believing they can sell these things to grown women.

I remember when this was announced a few months ago and looking at the runway pictures. I was surprised how not costume-like the outfits were. I actually think from a marketing standpoint it sort of defeated the purpose because it really did just look like "here's a dress we can call 'The Ariel.'"

There isn't anything wrong with a princess/wedding dress theme. Ever been to a Society for Creative Anachronism wedding? The shame is that these dresses don't really look like what a real, panting Disney adult fan would want to wear and that they don't make a matching "Prince" outfit for any of them.

In any case, they probably quoted 13 year old girls because they couldn't find any adult women who would own up to being willing to buy and wear them. I think the line looks like a disappointment to me.

It's funny, because the Princess-themed line of gowns on its own might not be *that* bad -- they don't look cartoony, it's not like the gowns make the women wearing them look like child brides.

But taken in context with the various articles that have talked about this -- referring to women prepetually as "girls", therefore not differentiating grown women from the 12-year-olds they interviewed about the dresses (ew!)... it's disgusting. The business part of it pisses me off -- when I first saw the sketches for the gowns, they looked mildly interesting, like wedding gowns with a little bit of personality. I'd hoped that they'd make the dresses in the various colors associated with the princesses.

But as it is, they're plain white gowns that look exactly like a gown you could purchase at David's Bridal for a fraction of the cost. Maybe I'm getting irritated at the wrong aspect of this -- and please don't get me wrong, the creepily condescending tone of the article pisses me off as well -- but I had really hoped that if Disney was going to create a line of wedding gowns, they'd be a little more... I don't know... unique. Not just marked up versions of every other wedding dress known to man.

Wow! > It seems to me as if Disney is attempting to utilize its consumer loyalty and its expansion of its wedding department (ie accepting gay and lesbian marriages) to construct an actual market for itself. That's sick. What's really fantastic though is the idea that their little 13 year old critic wasn't pleased. So much for universal loyalty!

I think that this all sexist and horrible and Disney is very anti-feminist and also sucks really, really hard, and this is sending the totally wrong message to younger girls, and it's horrible.

As a hardcore, bad-ass feminist, I feel absolutely terrible for saying this, but...

...I think the dresses are really really really really pretty.

Very odd and annoying. But I would be totally for it if they sold a Maleficent dress. I want a line of Disney Villians Bridal wear!

Of course, bitchkittie, some differences at a SCA wedding are that the clothes are often made by the participants. Even if you buy it instead, an outfit will likely be closer to $200 than $1100. Also, they have spectacular clothes for the groom and groomsmen.

Personally, I think that the worst problem with the concept of a "fairy-tale wedding" is that the original folktales were mostly about suffering and trial, not about the (not always guaranteed) happy ending. I avoided wishing for "a fairy-tale wedding" because I didn't want to risk bringing any injuries, deaths, illnesses, or tragic curses upon my nuptials. ;)

There is nothing wrong with marriage, and there is nothing wrong with wanted to dress up for the wedding. Personally I am waiting to see a lipstick lesbian Snow White marry a Lipstick lesbian Cinderelle. Any chance of them making the prince costumes? Wouldn't it be great to see Alladin marry John Smith?

There is nothing wrong with marriage, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to dress up for the wedding. Personally I am waiting to see a lipstick lesbian Snow White marry a Lipstick lesbian Cinderelle. Any chance of them making the prince costumes? Wouldn't it be great to see Alladin marry John Smith?

Re. the possibility of a Maleficent dress: you know that in the original story, she was supposed to have been invited, eh? It's not that she was evil per se, just that she got offended in that way that non-human immortal beings have a way of doing.

There was a bit from a humourous fantasy novel I glanced at years ago: "The wicked fairy was the only one who came to my baptism party. She had a great time, danced on the tables and gave me a teddy bear that sang, 'Go To Sleep, Mummy's Tired'."

It kind of depends on the version. In the Basile version, there was no curse at all, and no fairies--just a bunch of wise men who got together and cast the princess's horoscope or whatever they did to see her future and said "Hey, she's gonna prick her finger and fall asleep. That sucks." In some of the other versions, she was invited, but the King only had a certain number of gold place settings, and she had to eat off of a regular place setting, and that pissed her off.

Good point there, EG. Though personally, I always thought that the necessity of including the "bad fairy" was a good symbol for accepting that your family's life isn't always going to go smoothly, and that denying this fact may bring disaster. Or she can just serve as a representation of the annoying relatives one feels obliged to invite to formal events. ;)

Y'know, maybe it just means I'm immature, but I've always been really interested in fairy tales and folk stories. And while I think a lot of Disney's movies were poorly or shallowly made, some of them were awfully neat - I always liked that Jasmine and Belle and Mulan seemed a little kick-ass and liked to break and bend rules. And...yeah, some of the dresses in the animated movies were pretty. And if I had the inclination, it'd be wicked cool to have a dress that looked like Belle's in the ballroom scene of Beauty and the Beast. Or as the above poster said, Maleficent's garb is pretty bitchin'. I've seen some neat weddings (and mind you, these were small, private, inexpensive, and still meaninful affairs) that incorporated interests and aesthetic tastes of the married couple, whether it be sci-fi or roleplaying. And I'm sorry, but my indignation over the infantilizing marketing strategy is just run WAY over by the fact that NONE OF THE DAMN DRESSES LOOK LIKE THE MOVIE ONES. I mean, why bother spending the money? That "Jasmine" one looks exactly like a dress I wore to homecoming in high school, except I paid maybe $45 for it and it was blue. Sheesh. Dumb Disney. :-P

Malificent rocks. When I was a toddler the absolute highlight of bathtime was when my mom would suds up my little blond locks and twist them up into Malificent horns. I had zero interest in the princesses...I was a witch every year for Halloween until I was probably 8 and had imaginary 'Witch Parties' under the dining room table to which I would tell my mom (in chirpy little four year old voice) that I was inviting all of the Disney villinesses.

Princesses are so lame.

On a serious note, in retrospect, I realize that almost every "villiness" in at least the early Disney cartoons was a relatively independant woman; had her own castle like Malificent or ran her own home like the stepmother, and I wonder if it was intentional or subliminal message to send to young girls by setting up a single, strong woman as a 'villaness' in opposition to sweet and meek heroines that find men and accept their lowly place.

Malificent rocks. When I was a toddler the absolute highlight of bathtime was when my mom would suds up my little blond locks and twist them up into Malificent horns. I had zero interest in the princesses...I was a witch every year for Halloween until I was probably 8 and had imaginary 'Witch Parties' under the dining room table to which I would tell my mom (in chirpy little four year old voice) that I was inviting all of the Disney villinesses.

Princesses are so lame.

On a serious note, in retrospect, I realize that almost every "villiness" in at least the early Disney cartoons was a relatively independant woman; had her own castle like Malificent or ran her own home like the stepmother, and I wonder if it was intentional or subliminal message to send to young girls by setting up a single, strong woman as a 'villaness' in opposition to sweet and meek heroines that find men and accept their lowly place.

The problem, Ranter, isn't with dressing up for weddings -- it's with Disney being jaw-droppingly patronizing to its target audience (calling career women "professional girls" and placing them on the same footing as the 13-year-old children who were being shown the dresses) and also being blatantly manipulative -- even more than most bridal magazines, IMO -- by saying, "If you buy one of our ridiculously overpriced confections which bear little resemblance to the costumes of the characters on which they purport to be based, you'll not only look gorgeous, but you'll be fulfilling the 'princess' dream of marrying a rich, powerful man and resting on your laurels! Which is what every girl wants to do, right?"

That and, by not providing any groom's outfits, they're reinforcing the idea that women are the only ones interested in committed relationships. :P Admittedly this wouldn't be the case if it were a lesbian wedding, but unless one woman dressed butch, they'd be forking over twice the cash. Who needs a house, eh?

Embarassing admission: When I was a little girl, I was transfixed by Cinderella's beautiful blue shiny translucent ball gown. It was soo purty.

And I'm the least girly girl of all the girls, ever.

I think plenty of girls (though not all) want to dress up--that shouldn't be an embarrassing admission! My younger brother, for that matter, loved wearing my tutus and crowns when he was little ;).

The problem is when it becomes a way of keeping women in perpetual girlhood AND when the definition of "pretty" is so extremely narrow (for starters, excludes all men!). . .

There is nothing wrong with marriage, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to dress up for the wedding.
Yeah, except that the whole concept of marriage derives from the idea of making people property of each other. That, & the fact that weddings have evolved as a tacky means to show off your wealth as opposed to say, showing your love. The fact that people spend more time planning the wedding than planning the marriage. Aside from that, there's nothing wrong with them.

My guess is that this is Disney trying to capitalize on the modern bastardized-romance/fairy-tale obsession they created via their reality TV staple, The Bachelor. These dating shows have been wrapping their poisonous, repressive, regressive marriage-and-domesticity proscriptions in the trappings of "ideal fairy tale love," which in the realitu genre translates to lots of bling, a skinny nitwit bride, and an emptyheaded pretend-rich groom. The women actually get dressed up in Cinderella ballgowns and wear tiaras and ride in x-mas-light-covered pumpkin carriages. It's sickening infantilization, but it's been all over the boob tube for years. I have clips of these images in the multimedia reel I use when I do speeches on reality TV shows on college campuses. It's all very disturbing... and dumb, too. Let's not forget dumb...

you guys are definitely overreacting. These dresses are simply given a theme from Disney characters-they look like normal wedding dresses. Yea, it's Disney trying to make some more cheap bucks, but it's definitely not something to freak out about.

Why has Disney not gotten into the purity ball dress business? That would seem more in line with the idea of child brides.

Maybe they could add a line of chastity belts?

"I'm completely confused about why the article interviewed 12-year-olds. They're not getting married--they're not the consumers for this nonsense."

For that matter, I'd guess that the parents of the 12-year-olds who *are* getting married off probably dismiss Disney as western cultural imperialism instead of buying Disney merchandise.

"Will the Mulan dress be red?"

The article kinda hints that someone realized even the Disney version of Mulan reached some other rank instead of princess:

"Disney is unveiling a new collection of bridal gowns inspired by its six famed princesses: Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Belle, Jasmine and Ariel."

I dunno, maybe Disney will come out with a line of paintball armor next and then people will go "hey, the Mulan armor doesn't look like what she wore in the movie!" ;)

"It's funny, because the Princess-themed line of gowns on its own might not be *that* bad -- they don't look cartoony, it's not like the gowns make the women wearing them look like child brides."

Yeah, the actual clothing is just fine.

"Yea, it's Disney trying to make some more cheap bucks..."

Making plastic toys is going for cheap bucks. Trying to sucker an adult into forking over $1100-$3500 for a dress she'll only wear once is a bit more serious.

Marriage is such a corporate, capitalistic notion anymore, as society feels those who are married are moral, stable and, thus, contributing the economic engine that is the U.S.

Disney is perpetuating this truth through its commodification of love.

Marriage far predates corporate capitalism, or any kind of capitalism, for that matter.

Right EG, it does predate these concepts, but ANYMORE, it has been made out to be so commerical, and this kid-friendly (the best age to market to because they can influence their parents to buy things for them) Disney crap is a perfect example of this.

So I can't be a feminist and have a soft spot for Disney Princesses??

Well, dang. I guess my choices here are to chuck out my DVD collection or go skulking back to the '50's.

And by the by, Disney does have a Villains line in addition to the princess line. If you really want that Maleficent coffee mug, it's there at the Disney store, waiting for you.

So I can't be a feminist and have a soft spot for Disney Princesses??

Well, dang. I guess my choices here are to chuck out my DVD collection or go skulking back to the '50's.

And by the by, Disney does have a Villains line in addition to the princess line. If you really want that Maleficent coffee mug, it's there at the Disney store, waiting for you.

Sorry for the double post :/

OK, Bonnie, but "any more" doesn't mean that. So I assumed that it was a typo for "anyway."

Anyway, I'm one of the few people on the left who doesn't think that commercialism is an inherently bad thing.

And this isn't kid-friendly crap--kids aren't going to be bugging their parents for $3000 wedding dresses. At least, not successfully.

I have to agree that this isn't really something to freak out about. It's silly and mildly patronizing but I think everyone is looking into it just a bit too much. I do happen to know women who would be totally into this, and I have to admit, tho I hated Cinderella, her dress in this line is rather pretty.

"It's sort of doubly insulting: we don't actually have to make a connection between the dress and the icon--just name it "Ariel" and those stupid chicks will buy it."
I think I can see where they're going with it; each princess character is associated with a different cut/style of dress--Cinderella & Belle are essentially ballgowns, Snow White and Sleeping Beauty are A-Line, and Jasmine & Ariel are variations of the sheath cut, with a mermaid skirt in the case of Ariel, appropriately. Still, I can't really see anything that makes the gowns all that unique from any other formal gown, so I don't really see the point of the line. As other people have said, the really hardcore adult Disney fans are going to want reproductions of the dresses from the movies, not everyday-looking gowns that are supposedly "inspired by" the princess they want to emulate.

Side note: Who on earth would want to emulate Sleeping Beauty?
I hated that film as a kid, because the blue fairy was annoying as hell and the main character slept through most of the movie. The evil faerie and the dragon were the coolest things in it.

I just can't imagine them really believing they can sell these things to grown women.
You'd be surprised. I once read about a woman who underwent a massive amount of plastic surgery to make her look exactly like a Barbie doll, because she just loved Barbie soooooo much. Sadly, some women are only too happy to swallow the patriarchy pill.

"NONE OF THE DAMN DRESSES LOOK LIKE THE MOVIE ONES."
If the dresses from the movies were accurately reproduced, they wouldn't fit a real (as in not animated) woman. Disney animators are allegedly instructed to draw female characters' waists to be the same width as their necks.

I wish I could link you all to the website I used to visit that listed all the dark Disney secrets, but it went poof sometime last year, sigh.
I think there's a book written on the subject somewhere, but I've forgotten the title. Suffice it to say, Disney is nowhere near as wholesome and family-oriented as they'd like you to think...

Sure young people may not get the $3,000 dress at age 13, but what they will get is a seed planted in their mind that tells them that being a princess equates to having/spending a lot of money.

And usually -- according to many of the Disney films/books -- this means getting those green backs out of their hubby's wallet.

They don't need to believe that the only way to feel beautiful and princess-like is through an expensive dress, or a lavish wedding, or as eye candy on the arm of their "prince" for that matter. In this way, it appears that the commodification of their wedding equates to a commodification of their selves.

"I don't know if this some sort of sick scheme to make Disney child brides or convince young girls that they actually can grow up to be a princess -- but only if they get married! Ugh, ugh, ugh." - Vanessa

I would be willing to bet it is a scheme to make money.

what they will get is a seed planted in their mind that tells them that being a princess equates to having/spending a lot of money.

This seems like a really roundabout way of selling wedding dresses to me--a lot of initial investment with the pay-off seven to ten years down the road.

Besides, being a princess does equate to having a lot of money. That's why being/becoming royalty is such a big thing in so many fairy tales--it's a way to ensure material happiness.

perhaps disney can do a cross-promotion with mtv and have an episode of "engaged and underage" where the bride wears a princess dress. hell, why not do the whole princess wedding at disney world with cinderella's coach and all!

snark aside, i have to say that the more i see in the media, popular culture, and my personal life about how expensive weddings have become, the more i just find a cute sundress, elope, and then have a big party to celebrate with friends & family. that is, providing i find a guy worth marrying.

snark snark snark snark, there's no snark aside here.

what the hell are you all doing attacking the women who wear this stuff?

what if they're doing it in a conscious way?

what if they really have a love for cinderella left over from their terribly uninformed, patriarchy steeped youth from which of course they should break all bonds because there was NOTHING postive about it whatsoever?

bah. you all should be ashamed of yourselves, criticizing other women like this.

it's not to my taste, no. the dresses are kind of hideous and huge weddings are stupid. IN. MY. OPINION. not yours--mine.

comments (and posts) like this really discourage women from voicing WHY they might wear it. you're all (pardon if i missed a stray comment or two) stereotyping away, saying that oh yay, some women love to bow to the patriarchy, stupid women, ha ha ha. do you think that anyone is going to come and say, "um, well, actually, THIS is why, and this is what i think," with that kind of attitude rolling around? aren't we supposed to be promoting a forum, here? don't you give a shit about what people who's opinions happen to be different than yours are?

sorry for the rage, but this makes me extremely angry. feminism is a way of BEING and a way of acting and a way of being conscious. we all live within the culture that shaped up, and we're all steeped in it. i'd be willing to bet that there are a couple of you on here who just *think* it's wrong to want these, so you say you don't, but secretly you do because, hello, we all friggen grew up with this shit. you can't separate yourself from it, and mocking--not just IT, not just the manifestation, but the WOMEN, the PEOPLE, who "buy into it" or "don't know any better," is just CRAP. Mocking does NOTHING.

and for the damn record, i wear a damn tiara every chance i get. they're sparkly and pretty, and i like pretty, and i like sparkly, and i will be DAMNED if i don't wear them because that ONE PARTICULAR ACT might buy into the patriarchal system. that's crap. every time i put a bra on and brush my f-ing hair i'm buying into it.

as a caveat, i will say that i DO think it's important to talk about this stuff. the points about calling these women "girls," and not differentiating between the tweens and the adults IS crap, and it's wonderful that there's a place where this can be pointed out and discussed. but holy god, no more snark--at least not at this level and intensity. a joke here or there, a snark here or there--never hurt a soul. but this prevents discussion--let alone debate.

Onesong, you might want to read more carefully before you jump in with the rage. There are plenty of posts here saying the dresses are pretty, or complaining that they don't look enough like the dresses from the movies. Most of the complaints have been about the things surrounding the dresses, not the dresses themselves or the women who might wear them (except in a broader sociological view).

Eh. As a person who got married in a maternity tunic and pants that happened to be in my drawer and clean that day, downtown at court, with no guests but my parents (his parents were invited, but didn't show), I have to say that to me there is *no difference* between "OOhh! I want to have a huge sparkly wedding with a $2000 white dress with lots of sparklies that I will never wear in my life again and a big cake and I want to totally lose my shit with stress over planning this monster and it's going to set me back $30,000!" and the same thing, only with a princess dress. In fact I suspect I would have slightly more respect for a woman who showed up to her own wedding dressed as Belle or Mulan or someone (maybe not Cinderella or Sleeping Beauty, though, because talk about passive.) At least there's someone who's willing to own her childhood nostalgia and say, "Yes, this *is* all about me getting to be a pretty princess for a day." Because, y'know, that *is* what it's all about.

I mean, if you gotta be a pretty princess for a day so bad that you're mortgaging your mother's house and starting your marriage $30K in debt, okay for you. Your choice, your money, do what you want with it. But please let's not all pretend that it would be so very different if the bride wore a Disney princess outfit.

Now, if the outfits, as stated, actually do not look a damn thing like the princesses in question... *then* I'd have to mock the bride. "How am I supposed to tell you're Ariel, exactly? When did she ever wear this outfit?" And yeah, Disney talking about "professional girls"... dammit, professional girls are teens like the preppy in Monster House who smartly negotiates with the main character's babysitter to blackmail her into buying candy. Professional girls sell cookies or newspapers. Professional girls are not doctors or lawyers; Doogie Howser notwithstanding no one passes the bar or gets a doctor's license while underage.

But I just don't see much difference between buying crappy overpriced dresses from Disney and crappy overpriced dresses from anywhere else.

per Kimmy's comment, my previous comment is directed only at those who are being snarky. you know who you are.

and all of you who may need a reminder (as i often do) that it's always easier to mock than it is to talk.

"you're all (pardon if i missed a stray comment or two) stereotyping away, saying that oh yay, some women love to bow to the patriarchy, stupid women, ha ha ha."

onesong -
As the only person in the comments who mentioned the patriarchy prior to yourself, I can only assume this was addressed to me.
Please allow me to respond:

Assuming you are referring to my comment about "swallowing the patriarchy pill," you'll note I voiced no opinion whatsoever about the intelligence (or lack thereof) of the women making those choices. It was simply an observation of the fact that some women absorb the impact of our patriarchal culture more thoroughly than others. I don't believe this is an untrue statement.
If you choose to infer from that statement that women who do so are stupid, then that is entirely your issue.
I personally do not use the word "stupid" to describe people. Ever.
I find it to be extremely derogatory.
As such, I really don't appreciate having your judgmental attitudes projected onto my comments, as I make a significant effort to word them in a manner that excludes personal attacks on other's choices. Please refrain from doing it again. Thanks.

Um, ladies and supportive gentlemen?

I'm wrapping up my second year of law school and my absolute all-time idol is Ariel the Little Mermaid.

I just don't see the argument for All Disney Princesses Equal Mind-Warping Paternalism, even if they do draw them skinny. Turn on the TV sometime. ALL cartoon girls are skinny. I can't even think of an exception, and I watch a hell of a lot of cartoons.

And ladies who took the opportunity to bash marriage, the whole thing, as an unfulfilling patriarchal relic: I've heard, that if you and your partner enter into marriage with a mutual attitude of love and respect, that it can actually be pretty fulfilling and satisfying. You know. Just a rumor.

Should women HAVE to get married? No. Should women FEEL LIKE they have to get married? No.

But is wanting to be a princess on your wedding day the heinous crime against humanity that you're making it out to be? I really don't think it is. Good grief.

Shout-out to onesong for bringing some perspective here.

DrkEyedCajn, I would totally admire you if you wore Ariel get-up to your wedding! But churning out some generic white dress, calling it "Ariel," and expecting women--excuse me, girls--to fall all over themselves buying it because it's got the Disney label on it is cynical chicanery of the most annoying sort.

By the way, nobody's said that wanting to be a princess is a crime against humanity, but it's worth talking about why the icon being sold to girls and now to women is "princess" rather than "queen" or "hero."

"weddings have evolved as a tacky means to show off your wealth as opposed to say, showing your love. The fact that people spend more time planning the wedding than planning the marriage." So true

And congratulations to Alara in her maternity tunic. My neice, 5 months pregnant with twins, wanted to be taken down the aisle wearing an enormous white gown. What was the point, except that as a 12 year old she was fed this silliness about THE magical wedding.

So much has changed in terms of decisions about having children, getting married or not, etc, but this notion of 'the wedding' and 'the gown' lingers.

Have a party, wear what you want, make a commitment before everyone you know, but this white gown business is such an anachronism.

Hoping my daughter elopes---Grace

Lol, EG! Actually, I've been toying with the idea of an Ariel-themed wedding and/or reception, provided it wouldn't give my mom a heart attack. If you're bored, Google "Little Mermaid wedding"-- you'll see I'm not alone. :)

I realize that I'm officially the 873rd person to mention this, but when I have to read the caption to place which dress goes with which princess, then there's something wrong.

Personally, I'd rather dress up as Galadriel or Leia on my wedding day, but I could see going as Ariel if I was high enough (Joking!). That said, if I WAS going to dress up as a Disney Princess, I'd OWN that shit and actually look like the princess in question (Simplicity and sewing machine, here I come!).

Oh, and whoever wrote that "girls" in connection to lawyers, etc. is a complete barking moron.

Afterthought: I was a little bummed that the Ariel dresses weren't as mermaid-y as I had hoped they would be.

Not a seashell bra in sight!

I'm disappointed Disney came out with a Sleeping Beauty dress that doesn't even change from blue to pink and back again randomly? It's like they haven't even seen their own movies.

"ALL cartoon girls are skinny. I can't even think of an exception, and I watch a hell of a lot of cartoons."

If comics count as cartooning too, then there might be one exception: Gert Stein from the series Runaways.

"Afterthought: I was a little bummed that the Ariel dresses weren't as mermaid-y as I had hoped they would be.

"Not a seashell bra in sight!"

I just realized that a genuinely mermaid-y wedding dress might only work for a bride who isn't exactly walking down the aisle. Are there any women out there who both would really like to dress up as Ariel and expect to be in wheelchairs or scuba gear for their weddings...?

http://www.ouroneheart.com/wedding-theme-idea-scuba-wedding/

And ladies who took the opportunity to bash marriage, the whole thing, as an unfulfilling patriarchal relic: I've heard, that if you and your partner enter into marriage with a mutual attitude of love and respect, that it can actually be pretty fulfilling and satisfying. You know. Just a rumor.
Hey, thanks for the snark! But in case I didn't miss it, there was snark there right?
I just find the whole concept of marriage to be ridiculous. Say you get married at 25 or 30, & you expect to be with the same person until you die? People grow & change--I'm definitely not the same person I was five years ago & ten years from now I hope to have grown.
I think that some people are confounding my protest of marriage with a protest of relationships. I do think that people can have succesful partnerships, some for a very long time.
But you can't deny that the act of marriage has some unsavory roots. I mean, why do you think your dad walks you down the aisle? To give you away, b/c not so long ago we were our father's property until we became our husband's property.
And don't forget that tied up with the marriage issue is the chastity issue. The same people that are getting their knickers in a twist about my critique of marriage are prolly the same people saying, "Purity balls? GROSS!" So it's gross to pledge your purity to your dad but it's not gross to be given away?
So, to reiterate;
Relationships & commitment aren't bad. But do you seriously want to partake in an archaic ritual that some people aren't even allowed to partake in?

I just want to point out that the whole father giving the daughter away thing is a specifically Christian tradition. One can have a wedding without it.

"I just want to point out that the whole father giving the daughter away thing is a specifically Christian tradition. One can have a wedding without it."

Right on! For starters, what about couples who elope and who *don't* ask some other guy to "give the bride away"?

I just want to point out that the whole father giving the daughter away thing is a specifically Christian tradition. One can have a wedding without it.
Well, yeah, but Christians aren't the only people that are linked with viewing their daughters as property. Even if you took out giving away the bride, it doesn't eliminate the implications of becoming another's property. Whether your'e the property of a man or the man's the property of a woman, the idea is absurd.

Indeed, but ceremonial meanings change over time, especially when the participants want to change them.

Hmm. Didn't we all just have a similar conversation on another thread?

DrkEyedCajn: have you seen the Tail Man's page? (It's not dirty. Honest.)

Moxie Hart: You do know that lots of people are writing their own vows and ceremonies now, right? Out of the five weddings I've ever attended, not even the Catholic one had the bride "given away". Not every bride wore white, either -- one wore lavender, another royal blue.

Me? I wore white. Why? First of all, I agree with Miss Manners' statement that "the colour of one's wedding dress is no longer considered a statement on the condition of the body beneath it", second, it's easier to find a secondhand* bridal dress in white, and third, I didn't want to fuss with making sure the different shades matched.

*I saw little sense in spending the money for a new dress if I wasn't likely to wear it more than once.

As I understood it, the concept was that the designer took the 'feeling/concept/idea/mood' of each Princess and made dresses that would represent it, which is why the dresses don't look like the ones they actually wore.

i mean, that's what i read about the issue, anyway. and it's probably a total cop-out, haha.

oh, jesus, drama. i'll add my 2 cents anyway!

i hatehateHATE the idea of legal marriage. i won't do it. in case my husband were to do something fucked up like cheat on me or steal my money or smoke my last cigarette*, i just want him to take what he paid for and leave.

but you best fucking believe i want some huge, outrageous (non-legal, ceremonial) wedding. i figure i have never bought an expensive thing in my life, i never even had a prom, and i am vain as all hell. i am not objecting to any event where everyone's attention is on me and lots of photos of me are being taken while i'm looking my best.

;D

*the cigarette thing is a joke

ShifterCat- that is AWESOME!! Thanks for pointing that out to me.

And you're right, Mina. I would totally go the wacky route. I think the glass-bottomed boat approach is pretty creative- why settle for a musty old church? (I did kind of feel sorry for the seasick guests!)

Lorelei: an upside to being legally married is that doctors can't kick you away from your spouse's bedside (unless they're doing surgery or something) and can't make major decisions about them without your input.

I think it's about time wedding dresses were used for other occasions. Let's co-opt the wedding dress and start wearing them to work.

BTW, I messed up: the name's Gert Yorkes, not Gert Stein.

Regarding the full on Ariel wedding wit scuba gear, could you get married underwater? That'd be ace.

The dresses are ice but nothing special, you wouldn't guess who they were based on if the pictures weren't titles, and they're certainly not suitable for a fancy dress wedding. The semantics is ridiculously patronising though, apparently on tele you should say 'girls' and not 'ladies'. I'm not a princess I'm the queen bee.

When I was a kid I wanted to be a unicorn not a princess, where's the fairytale dress with hooves and a horn?

1)I hate it because these are very pretty dresses.
The marketing disgusts me, not every little girl dreams of her wedding day, especially like this.

2)And where are the Mulan dresses?! Mulan was the most kickass Disney character, is it because she isn't a princess?! Can she not have her own beautiful gowns because she's not a princess?!

3)I was also disappointed in the Ariel dresses....where is the shell bra, the flippers? The best part of Ariel was that she was part fish, come on!

4)I must say I grew up around a lot of Disney,(my bed sheets were fucking awesome, and DisneyWorld was my favorite childhood vacation) honestly I never noticed the whole princess/prince thing about Disney until a short while ago, I doubt other little girls have thought as far into it as much as we have,(I know I didn't) I don't worry about this too much.

5)I AM a fucking princess, and I don't need a dress or a prince to prove it.

an occasion as serious as your wedding

...just screams Disney cartoon theme!