If you blog about anything, chances are that someone is going to call you an idiot. That most certainly is a consequence of having a blog. Hell, it's a consequence of expressing an opinion.

But what happened to Sierra (and other bloggers as well) is totally different. I guess the difference between "You don't know what you're talking about" or "Your blog sucks" and "You deserve to die" is just too much for some people to grasp.

Another misogynist Liberal Dude (TM).

It really bothers me that sites like Daily Kos are supposedly the epicenters of the progressive blogosphere, when the truth is that they hate women just as much as Bill Donahue or anyone else.

That's why I read feminist blogs, almost exclusively.

I have the sinking feeling that if a blogger really did get attacked, his take on it would be "Why wasn't she more careful? Why didn't she report those email threats to the police?"

Kos needs to get over himself.

Kos totally misses the point about the Code of Conduct -- it's about comments and blog posts, not about email from crazy people. There's an important difference, beacause bloggers who leave up harassing comments and posts are themselves contributing to a *public* atmosphere of wild-west harassment, whereas private emails are a different beast. I agree with him that you can't stop the wackos from emailing, but bloggers certainly can get more conscientious about deleting rude, harassing personal attacks in their comments sections. Up until now, the blog ethos seems to have prized "freedom of speech" over civility. The Code of Conduct could start turning the tide and introducing some manners into mainstream blogs.

ugh. I read Kos this morning with my coffee and almost spit it out when I saw that post. Just reading back over that old gilligan's island bullshit makes me sick to my stomach. It's so hard to remember how much misogyny permeates the left when you're intentionally surrounded by enlightened males in your personal life--but it makes me recall my mom and her friends talking about the way women were treated in "the movement" back in the 60s-70.

Oh, the fun is starting over at my blog! I've already been called the speech police, and several guys have shown up to either say that Kathy Sierra really didn't get threats, or that Kos really didn't say what he did.

This is all so damn familiar.

Zuzu, thanks for the heads up. I'll keep my eye out for concern trolls...

I think my eyes just rolled out of my head.

Another jaw-dropper from the king of cluelessness. But what do we expect from the "progressive" male blogosphere, where it's A-OK to talk about gang raping a woman--as long as she's Ann Coulter or Michele Malkin?

I won't be defending Kos, and what happened to Kathy Sierra was abominable however I also ain't signing on to some speech code. No thanks. We'll moderate comments as we always have, and ban people who go over the line, without some centralized "certification" or some such.

god, what a dick.

yeah, i haven't even paid attention to the blogger code of whosis. as someone else said, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to sociopaths like the fuckers who threatened Sierra.

he's still a fucking asshole, and i wish to christ people would just delink and go their own way

Zuzu, thanks for the heads up. I'll keep my eye out for concern trolls...

Quite a few of them seem to be people still miffed about the "don't use gendered or fatphobic insults and call yourself a progressive" wars we had recently.

Thanks for pointing out the troubling misogyny in Kos's post. I've become increasingly impateint with Daily Kos for many of the reasons described here. I am torn about a "Bloggers Code of Conduct," but I'm also deeply troubled by the condescding treatment that Sierra has received from a number of prominent male bloggers.

hes probably saying that bc bloggers get that crap all the time and you dont see it being publicized. but because it was a woman, it was publicized. you really think that lieberal male bloggers dont get hate mail too? i am still on the fence about this one. i dont blog, but i would assume crazy people doing horrible things come with the territory.

Katie, hate mail is one thing. I got my share when I had an atheist website. But death threats, rape threats, and other threats of physical violence are something else entirely.

Yeah, like Markos cares one iota about any opinions coming from the "women's studies set"...

What these people are also missing entirely is no blogger should have to take for granted that their public speech will inevitably result in trolls and threatening e-mails. Free speech demands that we allow differing opinions, and I believe absolutely in that. But upholding the free exchange of ideas does not demand that we abandon civility. I do agree with those who see the threats to Sierra as a separate class altogether--specific and detailed threats of rape and death are different from general insults like those Kos shares ("your site sucks and liberals are stupid" does not begin to compare with the threats Sierra received). But even the relatively minor insults Kos defends as an unavoidable part of blogging are ridiculous. Why does anyone continue to look the other way at this sort of behavior? Shouldn't we demand a little more from one another in terms of civil discourse? It bothers me that so many people believe that we should expect personal insults to be thrown around in internet communities. That's not tolerable behavior in a "real world" location, and it shouldn't be on the internet, either.

Can we vote Kos off the island yet? Thing is, Sierra did produce some of the threats; I saw a few of them on her blog. The one where the Anonymous Coward suggested that someone should slit her throat and then do something sexual to the hole was particularly pungent. I'm likely to remember that one verbatim for a long, long time.

'Lieberal'? I haven't seen that since AOL, 1997.

Now shut up an' have a pie fight!

Damn, Kos will take any opportunity to pat himself on the back, won't he?

This doesn't surprise me coming from Kos. He has always dismissed 'women's issues' as of secondary importance.

There are a lot of liberals like him, sexist and homophobic jerks willing to throw us overboard to secure their own power and status.

I saw Sierra's reposts of some of the threats, they were vile and very frightening. They went far beyond mere trolls or hate mail, they were serious threats. Kos's easy dismisssal just proves what a jerkwad he realy is.

hes probably saying that bc bloggers get that crap all the time and you dont see it being publicized. but because it was a woman, it was publicized. you really think that lieberal male bloggers dont get hate mail too? i am still on the fence about this one. i dont blog, but i would assume crazy people doing horrible things come with the territory.

You'd assume wrong. Never once in the over a decade I've been posting on forums, maintaining a blog, and visiting BBS systems, has anyone ever threatened me with sexual violence.

It wasn't the fact that it was a woman that got publicity. It was that a woman finally stopped accepting the threats. It's one thing to get "hate mail" it's another to have people threatening to kill or rape you, to have them posting personal information, etc.

Kos is still blogging?

Why the hell do so many liberal men hate women so damn much? What the hell have we ever done to them (aside from, you know, voting their sorry undeserving asses into office time and time again)? It's to the point where I can't even tell the difference between them and conservatives. You'd think they could at least like us for utilitarian purposes -- we do make up half the population, and we do vote. Ugh. This reminds me of one of my friends who got thrown off of a very well-known liberal website for talking about being raped. Liberal men just don't give a fuck about us.

Kos really is not as Progressive as a lot of people think he is, at least from what I can see. He's more "anti Republican" than he is Progressive.

I'm sad, but not shocked, that he said this about Kathy Sierra. I personally believe Markos sold out a long time ago, and his blog is still only widely read, because its widely read (if that makes any sense), not because he's necessarily the most Progressive voice in the Alernative Media-sphere.

What amazes me is that he came off of self-imposed paternity leave to post this schlock.

I think Markos is a little too sleep deprived. Someone should do an intervention on him. Sexism lives.

some blogs are clearly more heavily trafficked then others. i would agree in that, if it was a man, he wouldnt be getting rape threats so that is clearly a gender based threat. i would also think that whoever did this thought that that could more easily intimidate a woman by using such hate charged language, which was obviously true. i dont think kos hates women, i think many liberal men dont understand the intricacies of feminism, and that they are largely unable to put themselves in our shoes and see the subtle things that we see.

I think Markos is a little too sleep deprived. Someone should do an intervention on him. Sexism lives.

i think many liberal men dont understand the intricacies of feminism, and that they are largely unable to put themselves in our shoes and see the subtle things that we see.

Ain't nothing subtle about rape threats.

This is another case of how women reporting their own experiences are routinely doubted and dismissed by those who have no access to those experiences--i.e., men. Since Kos doesn't understand the difference, there must not be a difference. God forbid he just keep his mouth shut and try to learn from someone who experiences sexism differently than he does.

who's the whiner here, the gal freaked out that she was photoshopped into a picture with a noose next to her head by people she doesn't know, or the guy whimpering that oh dear, he has to hear about said photoshopping?

in summary:
whining about "whining"=whining.

Thank you.

No one should be told to "shut up, like back and take it because you're a girl".

Been lurking here for a while, btw, and I've always meant to comment. Sorry it's taken me so long :-(

4:24--Well said EG, I was going to respond along the same lines, but in a less polite tone.

Sigh...I read an interview with this ass-clown a few years back where he basically said he couldn't care less about the overrepresentation of white dudes on the blogosphere b/c clearly Women bloggers, especially WOC, were not very smart or good if they weren't Highly Trafficked Sited like Kos.

If somebody threatened to lop off Kos's privates, shove them in his mouth, and suffocate him with them complete with his home address and SS # in a blog comment or on an otherwise public web site, I'll bet he would be singing a different tune. That kind of sexualized violence just isn't in his (or most men's) experience, and they easily dismiss it when it happens to women. His equating Sierra's situation with random wishes that liberal bloggers would die is disingenuous at best. It's crap, as is the entire post. If you don't want a code for bloggers, you can make that argument without recourse to idiocy.

Its not just in the bloggosphere where this is a problem. Anywhere where a woman is speaking/writing publically and expressing an opinion, she is subject to the possibility of rape threats or simply unwanted (and unrelated) sexual advances.

For example, when I wrote for my university's newspaper as an undergraduate, I got threats (esp. if I wrote a piece about campus feminism or activism); I also got odd offers of dates or blatant sexual advances (someone from an anonymous email account started sending pictures of themselves in their underwear, just body shots, no head to identify, asking if I liked what I saw and could we go out). Weird stuff, that may happen to a male writer here and there, but that is veiled in threats (sometimes) when directed at a woman--where that kind of email/anonymous harrassment escalates if unaddressed. Now, I'm not saying that some weirdo might not see a woman across the Starbucks and start stalking her as well (that happens) but when you are in public. When your name, picture, and email are made part of your reporters/blogger's profile--there is something about the woman public figure that is particularly subject to sexual harrassment and sexual threats of violence that many men might not yet understand (I'm hoping through education and intention toward understanding, many more men will try to understand this).

Peace

I don't usually read Kos because he writes moronic shit that insults my intelligence. Today's contribution was no exception.

This is my first time at Feministing so maybe I'm missing some backstory here, but I didn't see any misogyny embedded in Kos' slop. It is overwhelmingly stupid, but it is equal opportunity stupid as far as I can tell. Can someone tell me what I'm missing? (If the answer involves a lot of backstory, forget it, I probably don't want to know.) Thanks.

Oh, lord, Kos. Again. I love his oh-so-subtle implication that the lady in question is probably crying wolf to drum up attention for her (obviously inferior, as it's not written by Kos!) blog. What a schmuck.

It's getting to the point that I can't even bring myself to read user comments on posted pieces - Feministing excepted. Even more disheartening than Kos himself are some of the people who are responding to him, saying things like, "yeah, what's up with women and their griping?" Like they somehow can't understand that SEXUALIZED DEATH THREATS are kind of a BIG DEAL.

Cyrus, the problem with Kos (my problem, anyway) is that he's trying to downplay the enormity of some men's bizarre online vendetta against Kathy Sierra. Condoning violence against women is just as misogynistic as waging it.

As already pointed out Kos did not do the research, probably because he is too busy with his new born daughter... but seriously if you are going to post do the research BEFORE you hit post!

He has a huge audience and if he would have done the research I would LIKE to think that he would have responded entirely different. I would LIKE to think that he would use his massive audience to bring about equality for all. But he seems to be all about electing Democrats and not about what we can do for justice as individuals.
LIKE DENOUNCE THESE THREATS!

Cindermoth, thanks for the background. I've read just a little about the threats against Sierra, and I wasn't aware the threats were from men. Obviously, whatever the source, threats have to be taken very seriously.

Still, I don't think Kos is condoning threats of violence against women per se; he seems to be condoning threats of violence against everyone, even his children. Sure, he uses the Kathy Sierra case as an example, but I assume that's because it's current, not because she's a woman. I chalk up his mindless rant to general idiocy rather than misogyny. (I'm not saying he isn't a misogynist; I just don't see it from that blog entry.)

Cindermoth, thanks again for the explanation.

It bothers me more when "progessives" are misogynistic than conservatives. Though they try to be subversive, they actually maintain the status quo.

Kos is seriously ignorant and shows it again and again. Today was the last straw... reading that site makes me mad more than it informs me. I don't need to support it and Kos's misogyny habit anymore.

I always think it's funny when the Republicans come out with their talking points about the "radical left-wing blog" DailyKos... I always think, "If you think that's radical, then I would blow your mind."

Now I'm vaguely reminded of the recent Something Awful article on this:

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/hogosphere/internet-death-threat.php

o_O

I would LOVE to assume that Kos isn't being sexist, but it would feel more like a comfortable lie than anything. For centuries, men have told women that our problems aren't as bad as we think they are, and to stop "overreacting." (Wanna guess why "hysterical" has the same Greek root as what we now call the uterus?) And the tone of his commenters adds to that sense. Much is made on that page of the value of a "thick skin," after all. To simply call Kos stupid, I feel, is to let him off the hook.

I've got a practical response to whether the threats should have been expected. I don't care. She found them threatening. I love her blog and have been following it for years. Now it's gone because of a few out of control people. That makes the threats an injury to many people - not only Sierra.

Yes, and what Cindermoth describes is part of the "backstory" as well, Cyrus, although perhaps farther back than you had meant.

EG said it better already, but please, never let anyone off the hook as being "unable" to understand...the correct word is "unwilling." It's one thing not to have a personal frame of reference that would immediately allow you to identify precisely with someone's experience of sexism or racism or homophobia or violence based on another cultural attribute; it's quite another thing to hear a story of said violence or discrimination and outright dismiss or deny it (or repulsively insinuate they made it all up), negating the person's credibility and voice and completely invalidating what they know to be true.

Kos's post misrepresented and minimized the nature and extent of the harassment and threat that Sierra endured, which was very much about her being a woman and was the kind of harassment and violence that, sadly, all kinds of women experience in all kinds of settings every day, as many of us recognize from personal experience. It should not be ignored or be the woman's responsibility to "avoid" by discontinuing her livelihood, hiding herself, or shutting up. Those "suggestions", however, are also all-too-familiar for women, who are frequently offered such offensive and ridiculous advice on how to adapt ourSELVES to a world defined by male privilege and dominance.

Oh jeebus, have you seen Althouse's take?

Call me old-fashioned or whatnot, but I always thought that making death threats against people was, well, wrong.

Actually, I'm fairly sure it's illegal, too. Part of living in a free society being that you are not allowed to use force or the threat of force to shut people up. I can't see how this case is any more complicated than that..

Kos and his lieutenants, male and female, have a long unfortunate history of undermining women's issues on that blog. They've attacked NARAL, Planned Parenthood, and NOW. They actively promoted Casey Jr (a man who will be a consistent vote for the Catholic hierarchy's pathetic need for control of women and who is responsible for the fact that the Dems do not have a veto proof majority on the stem call bill) and he has banned hundreds of actual feminists from posting on his blog.
Indeed, considering his habit of banning perhaps Markos should grow a thicker skin AND a set of balls or, better yet, return to the Republican party which is his natural home.

Threats of violence should *never* be acceptable or even tolerated. Kos screwed up and should apologize for dismissing this.

This is not the first time I have disagreed with Markos, but his timing and tone on this post are both especially bad. There is a dialog to be had here, but he's not making much of a contribution by falling back on the, "Oh, it's all in your head." defense.

Two thumbs down.

Liberal men just don't give a fuck about us.

Statements like this don't help anyone.

OK, smart guy, then tell us what you've done lately to help women. Volunteering at shelters, donating to NOW, anything. I simply don't see how being quiet about the problem of liberal male misogyny helps anyone, except the misogynists.