You know what is interesting about these kinds of programs is that they're only effective until the kids making the pledge to 'stay pure' become the majority. Apparently, it's only the persecuted who maintain their dogmatism.

I really wish Maher had been clearer on the fact that the first few shirts he displayed were real.

I hadn't seen the "Private Property" one before. Jesus.

There was a thread about "Purity Balls" on Free Republic this weekend. It had over 700 comments, and the majority found them "creepy" as well.

I was surprised to see that.

Ok, I shut it off as soon as the guy on the left started going on about how if our daddies aren't around we do in fact turn into crackwhores, so maybe they covered this and I missed it, but does anybody know which 2 are the states that don't have purity balls? (And I really hope one of 'em's NH.)

I don't think he was saying that without dads that we all turn into crackwhores, I think he was saying what is a true statement; that having a caring and loving father help raise you is a positive on your future. At least he was saying the dad is important instead of the whole "Kids need their mommies or they'll all become delinquents!" argument that leaves the dad out. I think a lot of the reason I am the way I am now is because I had a strong relationship with my dad (and my mom!) when I was younger. Re-watch it and hopefully you will see where I am coming from.
Not only that but he questions why the purity ball is for girls and not boys.

btw- I was completely tickled that so many people agreed wholeheartedly that the balls are a creepy thing. Hopefully the majority does think it's appalling.

there was actual a post about this on one of the blogs linked from AOL's welcome page, a parenting blog, where the comments are usually from barely literate right wing nutjobs and even the majority of commenters on there thought that this was just incredibly, yes, CREEPY (with the exception of a few obviously imbalanced lunatics...the type who comment as tho they are simply a megaphone shouting bible verses with no independent thought). it sort of makes me wonder if the people holding these "purity balls" are just a bizarre fringe and not really representational of the majority of american christians. which is soothing.

I would agree that having a good relationship with your father is very beneficial in the long run.

But that doesn't seem to be what's going with these "Purity Balls." I believe these events are just treating young women as though they're property. First she belongs to her father, then her father passes her on to her future husband? Not only is it disturbing, it's sexist.

You know, it's disturbing that even the most apparently liberal person on that panel, John Legend, feels he has to say that "it's nice that Dads want to keep their daughters pure".

No, it really isn't.

Bill Maher may be an idiot (virgins are "cockteases"? FFS), but he's the only one on that clip who seems to have any idea how deeply grotesque this whole concept is.

God damn, John Legend makes me hot now more than ever.

Sweet Jesus, the vapors.

I think John Legend meant "nice" in reference to wanting what seems, personally, to be the best for them. But he goes on to say how it is unrealistic the idea is that they will stay pure, and how unnatural it is to be so obsessed with that sort of thing.

Whatever. I'm saving room for his love.

Absolutely these people are on the fringe. Someone broght up the topic of purity balls at my daughter's school (which does actually have a non-sexualized father-daughter dance each year) and the immediate response from a fairly large, mostly church-going group was complete disgust.

I don't know exactly how common these things are, but I live in a very religious area (Southeast Tennessee) and I've never known anyone to attend one or even think they are a good idea. My best guess would be that these things are put die-hard, ulatr-conservative, fundamentalist men and their 'he's the boss' wives.

It might be instructive to decide which neo-con hack is which cancer. I think David Frum is colon.

I'm really tired of this "if the father isn't present, then the children go crazy" stuff that is constantly being spouted. Generally, mothers are more involved in rearing their children than dads are. Tell me why the absence of the less-involved parent causes such problems in children. I think it's better to emphasize the importance of both parents being equally involved in raising the kids.

People are really hot on the purity balls now. Stacey Taylor talked about it on the Randi Rhodes Show on Thursday, but I didn't listen to it. I think purity balls are extremely creepy. It's like fathers are marrying their daughters. It's like a reverse Oedipal complex. Instead of the daughter lusting after the father, the father is lusting after the daughter. He marries her so that he doesn't have to worry about any other man seeing her the way he does: as a sex object.

Ugh. Purity Balls are nasty. There are many other, less incestual, ways to bond with your children and teach them your values (even if they're sexist and terrible).

I completely understand how having a father in a child's life can enrich it in many ways; My father and grandfathers helped enrich mine. But besides acting as role models and caregivers (which another woman, or even a non-related person could do), did anyone ever consider how fathers offer economic support? Men are still the breadwinners in America- especically white men. Perhaps these "well-rounded" children are recieving benefits not mostly from thier fathers' emotional presence, but from from his economic stablity and the benefits that come with it: better education, liklier chance of stable housing, better medical care, etc.

Its just a thought.

Some time ago, I read an article that basically stated that while there are significan reductions in the likelihood of teen pregnancy, drug abuse, and other negatives when a father is in the home, the same benefits also applied to two-parent gay and lesbian couples. So basically, the benefit stems from having an additional adult in the house (with the potential to provide extra income, extra attention, etc.) , not necessarily a father.

It's like a reverse Oedipal complex.

Also known as the Electra complex, although the corresponding myth is only parallel to Oedipus myth in the murder of the same-sex parent, not the incest aspect.

Anyway, it's definitely creepy and I'm always amazed that anyone actually participates in these things.

I don't have sound on this computer, so I couldn't tell, but I hope at least *some* of those shirts were jokes, and not available for purchase somewhere? *shudder*

Vervain, the first three were real, the last ones were fakes.

Ah, well, that's...uh...slightly less creepy. But not by much.

You know sometimes I think Bill Maher is a progressive then other times I hear him joke that young men raped by their female teachers should be grateful because they "are hot." Then I hear him argue that no middle eastern people should be allowed on airplanes at all, then laugh when people are offended, saying they can't take a joke.

Bill knows what he's talking about in some arenas, but can almost sound far right on other issues. Regardless what topic he's covering, right or wrong, he is unquestionably an asshole.

*Sighs*
I'd like to call Bill Maher daddy, even if he's been to No-Man's Land (AkA Ann Coulter).
I'd love to get me some of those t-shirts, the real ones & the fake ones.

I'm surprised they didn't get their hands on the joke abstinence tee shirt from Glarkware: Abstinence is for virgins.

My dad loves me and is involved with our family and it's helped me a lot. By showing me how a good man treats his wife, how he treats his kids, things like that. However, my father has never tried to FAKE-MARRY ME. Goddamn. Take your daughter mini-golfing or paintballing or something fun if you want to connect with her, not some uber-creepy psuedo prom where you lay claim to her virginity. I'm glad majority opinion seems to be firmly on the "creepy" side with this issue.

The "no trespassing on this PROPERTY" shirt was one of the real ones.

Niiiiice.

I just came across some really interesting analysis of the purity ball thing here: http://barkbite.blogspot.com/2006/04/purity-ball.html

One of the creepiest bits in the pledge is when the fathers promise to 'cover' their daughters. It's a term used in animal breeding: the stallion 'covers' the mare, and gets her knocked up.

Also, fathers should never think about sex, and their daughters, in the same paragraph. They certainly shouldn't be pledging to get involved in their daughters sex lives. A father that deeply involved in his kid's sex life is a paedophile, not a good dad.

For a good laugh on this type of stuff go to www.ironhymen.com

Really sarcastic and stinging take on Abstinence only sex ed.

As someone pointed our earlier, those that take part in abstinence only programs are much more likely to catch an STD or become pregnant when they do have sex. But all of this is not anything new, statuatory rape laws were not designed to protect the girl but to protect the "property" of the father. Some still on the books are worded that way if I recall correctly.