The responses I've been hearing about this disgust me. One radio station has been making fun of her because she says she "doesn't care" what people think but still is making a big deal out of this. This whole thing disgusts me so much... it's like the ugly childish men who are angry they could never even dream about being with someone like Tyra (whom I actually like very much -- I don't like the supermodel industry, but there are some awesome women in industries that exploit women. Gloria Steinem was a Bunny, after all), finally found a bad picture of her and POUNCED.

Jebus. The woman is almost six feet tall and according to reports, when the picture was taken she weighed a very, very healthy (and trim) 160 pounds. The only reason people are picking on her is because she was a super-skinny supermodel. This gives them license to pick on her... how? Because she had SO MUCH discipline for SO LONG and suddenly now she's at a level of having MERELY above-average discipline (as opposed to near-impossible levels as she had before) -- because of THIS these little children find reason to spew their sour grapes?

If only people would grow the fuck up. 1) Women are more than our bodies. So if we get fat/gain weight, well, there are just far more important things to talk about. DEAL THE FUCK WITH IT. 2) By ANY standard, Tyra is drop-dead gorgeous, and apparently is also HEALTHY. I'd pay a lot of money if it'd make me look like her (and I'm already above-average, according to numerous random strangers).

i was watching that episode but turned it off when she said to an anorexic woman "so you would rather your kids go through life without a mom than be fat?" (if she died from anorexia). huh? since when is anorexic or fat the only two options? i really wished she phrased herself better.

First, I want to say that I absolutely love this site and I read it every day! This is my very first comment.

While I cannot bemoan what Tyra is saying here I do think that it is problematic because at the same time she is saying things like this, she is also encouraging those very same standards on her other show "America's Next Top Model." I try not to watch this show very often, but when I do catch an episode the women I see are rail thin. I find her little rant to be quite hypocritical.

Children are generally kind. It's not until they get old enough to get enough media and socialization into them that they will purposely be cruel. People need to use some of the basic civility they were presumably taught as children, media included. I.E. no one has the right to put anyone down. I got teary watching this clip! I am very glad that she has the strength and support to say what she said.

i am a tyra fan, mostly. and i am so glad she said this. and im especially glad she said it with the emotion she did.

it really seems like there is no happy medium for female body image in the media. there are either negative headlines regarding how disgustingly anorexic stars are, or headlines like the ones she points out in the clip, where a gorgeous woman is criticized for having become fat...obviously not the case.

the self confidence that she described is the self confidence i've been striving to build. its the self-confidence every woman and girl deserves. i'm just very glad to see women address this issue as she did.

This episode upsets me, and i think knocks fat and womens rights back a decade. If you have seen the original picture, and her picture, they are not one in the same. In the episode she says that a while ago (pajama party or something) she was 150 at that weigh in, and when she weighed herself today, she was 160. There is no way that she is the same weight as in that picture. I am not calling her fat, nor do i care either way, but there is no way that she didn't ultra diet and exercise to get to where she is now. This episode was not about how self confident she is, it was about her reassuring herself that she's pretty. I don't mean it in the good way, i mean it in the quick weight loss, low self confident, i-hate-myself-and-i-have-to-lose-weight-asap way.

This episode to me only furthers the stereotype that the thinner she is the prettier she is. If she wants to push the fat is beautiful mantra, get someone who isn't a stick on america's next top model. My wife watches that show, and there was a taller woman who was in NO way fat. She was tall and skinny, but because she was so tall, she weighed more. She was constantly berating herself on how fat she was, and others made comments about it. Tyra Banks only typafies the "only thin is beautiful" view on society.

This episode upsets me, and i think knocks fat and womens rights back a decade. If you have seen the original picture, and her picture, they are not one in the same. In the episode she says that a while ago (pajama party or something) she was 150 at that weigh in, and when she weighed herself today, she was 160. There is no way that she is the same weight as in that picture. I am not calling her fat, nor do i care either way, but there is no way that she didn't ultra diet and exercise to get to where she is now. This episode was not about how self confident she is, it was about her reassuring herself that she's pretty. I don't mean it in the good way, i mean it in the quick weight loss, low self confident, i-hate-myself-and-i-have-to-lose-weight-asap way.

This episode to me only furthers the stereotype that the thinner she is the prettier she is. If she wants to push the fat is beautiful mantra, get someone who isn't a stick on america's next top model. My wife watches that show, and there was a taller woman who was in NO way fat. She was tall and skinny, but because she was so tall, she weighed more. She was constantly berating herself on how fat she was, and others made comments about it. Tyra Banks only typafies the "only thin is beautiful" view on society.

Zero, she does appear skinnier than in the picture, but that doesn't mean she IS skinnier/lighter/etc. It is absolutely possible that she was the same weight both times, or very close to the same weight. Cameras and angles can do ALL KINDS of things to change how you look. I have seen pictures of myself taken in close proximity to one another, that make me look like I've either ballooned or shrunk 20 pounds. It's absolutely possible for photographs to be misleading (also very possible her producers decided to airbrush her when they aired the TV show).

There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with Tyra, or any woman for that matter, wanting to be considered "attractive" by modern standards. It doesn't make her a bad person to "want" to lose weight, if in fact she did/does. The problem is when someone crosses over and decides that ONLY modern standards define attractiveness, and that fat is NOT attractive. Just as problematic is the notion that physical attractiveness is the most or one of the most important characteristics of a woman (or that a woman is a "bad" feminist if she's good-looking, etc).

I personally think that Tyra Banks is a horrible and shallow person and she's just using this to literally make the show all about her without the pretense. If you've seen her previous episodes about how the un-thin are treated in this world you know she likes to turn everything about herself. Take a look at the episode where she dressed in the fat suit to see what it's like to be "fat" and then she, as skinny as ever, sat between two people much larger than her and cried about how unfairly she was treated. I wanted to smack her.

And Law Fairy, are you listening to Kevin and Bean on KROQ in the morning? If so you and I have both got to stop it;)

Ok, Tyra definitely scored some points there. I'm still not willing to forget about her dumb fear-mongering segment on how to survive a shark attack though.

I'm willing to take her word for it on the weight thing. It takes a lot of courage to put her postmodel swimsuit body, sans airbrushing, out there on TV like that, and make some statements that are clearly going to invite more ridicule from some corners. And the tears in the audience... she definitely said some things that people needed to hear.

It's interesting; I had a very positive reaction to the video (I'm 5'3" and weigh 195 pounds). But then part of me wished that a woman who was actually overweight would come out and say something like that. I'm not offended by Tyra at all; the fact that someone would look at her and call "fat" is disgusting and terrifying. But at the same time, I'd love to see someone like Queen Latifah come out and say that, too. Her actions imply it, but it would be nice to hear it.

regardless of whether she is actually fat, she was bashed as such.

isn't it interesting that a lot of these comments focus on Tyra's character rather than on the character of those she defends herself and others against?

Amen.

I'm really, really depressed by this whole situation. I was also horrified to learn, after Billie Piper left Doctor Who, that some alleged fans had criticized her for being "too fat." WTF?

We live in a sick, sick world. The whole point of calling women like Tyra Banks fat is that most women are not even as skinny as Tyra Banks, so men get to set a standard that women can't possibly meet--then gain sexual access by "putting up with their imperfections."

I'm a man, but I really hate men sometimes.

Cheers,

TH

Ultra, guilty as charged :)

Oh -- but in fairness to me, I only switched over after Star inexplicably fired Jamie, Jack and Stench. Granted, collectively they're not the best proponents for women's rights (especially Stench, although he's nonetheless likable in his own way), but Jack was quite possibly the only reasonable voice I've heard on non-NPR radio. They replaced them with Valentine and Lisa Foxx, and after listening to unfeminist bullcrap spew forth from my radio three separate mornings in a row, I had to make a change. I've always kind of preferred rock to Top 40 anyway, so I moved to KROQ.

At least Kevin and Bean are irreverant... I was ready to bitch-slap Valentine for being both idiotically stereotypically male and boringly conventional (among some gems from him: the recent survey showing most women are single was "alarming"; during a feature where callers were told to call in and say what "real men" don't do, a guy called in and said basically that real men don't give a crap about stupid things like whether or not people care if they blow-dry their hair, etc. (go him!!) and Valentine acted incredulous that someone was trying to spoil his fun, or something stupid like that; and letting a caller go on AT LENGTH about how Hillary shouldn't be elected because a woman should not be president). I decided that my day job is stressful enough -- I don't need to get an aneurism on my drive to work ;)

TLF writes:
during a feature where callers were told to call in and say what "real men" don't do, a guy called in and said basically that real men don't give a crap about stupid things like whether or not people care if they blow-dry their hair, etc. (go him!!)

Mmm. Reminds me of one of the best things my father ever said. Re Real Men Don't Eat Quiche: "Real men eat whatever the hell they want."

Cheers,

TH,
who washes his hair with Hello Hydration,
uses lip moisturizer,
scrubs with a mango-tropical exfoliating bodywash,
owns a facial steamer,
and looks forward to the day when it's as socially acceptable for women to stop doing this sort of thing as it is for men to start.

"Cheers,

TH,
who washes his hair with Hello Hydration,
uses lip moisturizer,
scrubs with a mango-tropical exfoliating bodywash,
owns a facial steamer,
and looks forward to the day when it's as socially acceptable for women to stop doing this sort of thing as it is for men to start."

Nice.

Zoey,
who doesn't do anything like that except for showers once every blue moon and definitely more feminist than you are! *sarcasm*

What's a facial steamer?!

Isolated, the video seems fantastic. But it's Tyra Banks. If she were actually doing something to actually live out her words rather than abusing those poor girls on her Top Model show by reinforcing everything she says she hates, then I might take her seriously.

Facial steamers hydrate and cleanse your pores. You can do it yourself by boiling water, turning off the fire, wrapping a towel around your face so the steam cleans out your pores. Tom's pores must be nice and tight! :)

Professional singers also use them to prevent hoarseness and to keep their throats healthy.

Ah, well I've learned something new today.

Zero: "There is no way that she is the same weight as in that picture."

In Photoshop, it's very easy to scew an image one direction or another.
If you want the subject to look thinner, you can stretch the image vertically few pixels.
If you want the subject to look thicker, you can stretch the image horizontally a few pixels.
It's done all the time.

Example: look at Ann Coulter's hand
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/EE/images/uploads/Coulter_hand.jpg

The husband has been sneaking my Hello Hydration this winter, so you are not alone, Tom.

TH: What a great beauty regimen you have! Personally, I just use the cheap shampoo, although I do splurge on my face and wash with the Clinique soap, and a kind of expensive acidic soap for the rest of me (Nature's Beauty Bar). Not to be off topic much, but I hate how commercials for men's beauty products always have a throaty narrator, the bottles are always blue, silver, or black, and the commercials always end "...FOR MEN!"

But back to Tyra: I absolutely love her. I don't know where all the hate for her comes from, but she comes across as such a real person. I'm a fan of Top Model (Tyra is more supportive of the "plus size" models than the rest of the judges--ugh, Janice). Those women are young, tall, and some are naturally skinny (I'm 5'8" and in my early college years I was 120 lbs--now post-college I'm 154 and just curvier). I have issues with the modeling industry, of course, but I won't touch on those in this forum.

I love Tyra because of exactly what she did on her show about the "fat" photo. She confronted it directly and I applauded her. Also, I really liked the show where she confronted Naomi Campbell. Instead of turning it into a show just about her vs. Naomi, she discussed racial bias in the modeling industry (and other places), and how women should band together as sisters rather than try to tear each other down through gossip. She worked things out with Naomi, and it was a pretty powerful show (even getting an article in Bitch). And I like how she's not so serious on some of her shows, like when she was with one of her friends (Kimora), talking about midnight snacking, and showing how she pigs out on whipped cream in a can (and I can certainly relate to that).

I'm glad she said something back to those people who were bashing her.

I'm still irritated with her recent episode on witches tho, so, meh.

I must have not been watching the same show because whenever I see Tyra I only see a self absorbed woman and this was just another opportunity to focus attention on herself.

And yes, I'm basing my judgment of what I've seen of her in interviews and on her show. She barely even gave Naomi Campbell a second to breath before she made turned the topic on herself. As a black woman Tyra banks can scream at the haters of her fat all she wants but she still clings desperately to the white model of beauty she's "striking" out against. Yes, she'll tell you straight up that she's got a weave and what not and quite frankly that's okay but she's telling people to "accept" themselves for who they are and she's just not doing it. She only does it when it's convenient for her. I don't believe those crocodile tears for one second.

If she *did* gain the weight she quickly lost it didn't she?

And I agree with everyone else who says that she's still holding up the other models on her show to the same standard, she might defend them but name one "regular" looking model who's won or made it to the top three.

Law Fairy, My radio/alarm clock only gets KROQ most of the time so I leave it on there and three out of five days of the week I regret it. I think my breaking point though came about a year ago when they addressed women with small breasts and Kevin (or Bean, they sound the same to me) said that small breasted women should be put to death. I know he was joking (god I hope he was) and I don't want to be a humorless feminist but that really rubbed me the wrong way, even if he was joking.

Mary writes:
Not to be off topic much, but I hate how commercials for men's beauty products always have a throaty narrator, the bottles are always blue, silver, or black, and the commercials always end "...FOR MEN!"

I never buy "FOR MEN" products because they inevitably end up smelling like gasoline, animal nutsacks, or some disturbing mix of the two. ;o)

And I never touch Axe with a ten-foot pole!

Cheers,

TH

I'll sheepishly admit that I've watched Top Model, for the purposes of pointing out that Tyra is nothing more than a self-promoting hypocrite.

Anyone else who's watched knows that the "plus-sized" models on there are simply lambs to the slaughter, put in as token targets. Tyra will appear to squeeze a few tears out of them in an interview segment in the first half hour, sharing stories about her own difficulties with weight.

When it's time for judging, though, she leads the mob, tossing out passive-aggressive lines about what the industry demands (meaning skinny = good, anything but skinny = bad), as though she were not herself a tastemaking figure in the business. And she takes them down.

The only winner in the show's seven seasons who can even remotely be described as "plus" was Yoanna, who dropped 60 pounds in two years, going from a size 10 to 2, and abandoned her plans for med school to become a model (she's now the host of a show on the Style Network).

So while the message Tyra's putting out there may be good, the messenger herself lacks credibility.

TLF

I completely agree with you, and i also completely agree with the person who pointed out the fact that you can stretch and modify images to the way you want them to look. I also agree that wanting to lose weight, wanting to be skinny, etc, is not wrong in any way. When you have been editing pictures for web site creation, editing, and modifying, you can see the tell tail signs of image manipulation. I have seen a few places that the photos appeared (with our society, it's hard not to pay attention to what is being talked about like this). My rant had nothing to do with whether or not she was fatter or not, and whether or not that is still sexy. When i saw the main comment of "good for her" i couldn't help but think what i had been thinking when i saw the story of her show and what she said on it. This was not an episode about "it's ok to be not super skinny, it's ok to be fat, and you are sexy no matter what you look like." This was an episode to validate herself. She is as shallow now as she ever has been. This is her going from skinny model, to a more 'normal' weight, and not feeling sexy, and having it pointed out to everyone. I hear people talking about tyra like she her show is empowering for all women, but it is not. It is a show to make her feel good about her self. Look at the episode about wearing a fat suit and going out and feeling what it is like to be gawked at. At the end of the show, she broke down because she spent 20 mins in a fat suit, and wasn't looked at the same way as she normally is. The fat women felt bad for her. They comforted her. They deal with this every day, and yet they are having to spend their time comforting the skinny girl (at that time), who felt fat for an hour and is crying about it. It's like a white guy going in really good black face, and crying about it after he washes it off, and a whole bunch of black people sitting around him saying "everything will be ok." She might be a woman, she might be black, but she is famous for being beautiful and skinny. That is her source of power. If it is taken away for 2 minutes, she doesn't know how to deal with herself or the world until she gets back to that place. She is self centered, self serving, and shallow, and doing nothing for the feminist movement.

I never buy "FOR MEN" products because they inevitably end up smelling like gasoline, animal nutsacks, or some disturbing mix of the two. ;o)

And I never touch Axe with a ten-foot pole!

TH,

You mean you don't use Sex Panther?

O:-)

This is not something to be criticized or called hypocritical, but to celebrate. Maybe you do think she's hypocritical, but this isn't about women who are already strong, this is about he women that watched this clip and felt better about themselves because of it.

If she can make women more comfortable with their bodies, which she did with this show, then lets just applaud that.

The way men and mainstream have picked and poked at the picture and made accusations of her being fat is very similar to how people commenting have ripped apart her life and tried to make sure that she not be allowed any credit. Sure, she's probably flawed, but does a feminist or anyone supporting women have to be perfect? If they don't have the badge and sash, are they out of the club?

And maybe her other show is superficial, or maybe this one, but she's on mainstream TV. What can be expected? There are boundaries there. She has to stay within them. Other women on TV are doing the same things people on here have been accusing Tyra of, but without any motion toward supporting women or defeating the ideal, and who is being picked on by the feminist community? The one who tried to break out a little and do more. What a welcome mat we roll out. Are these people supposed to morph overnight into actively conscientious and perfect feminist icons? They certainly will be hesitant to make any more efforts if all they get from the feminist community, one that's supposed to support women, is a catty criticism of how imperfect she is.

Tara K.-- I whole-heartedly agree with you.

I've only seen the Tyra show a handful of times and I haven't watched much of America's Next Top Model in the last few seasons, but I was, at one point, fairly addicted to it. It's embarrasing, but, you know, "reality" tv sucks you in like that.

I think many of the people criticizing Tyra are simply not taking her in context. The girls on Top Model are there to become high fasion models. The body standards expected of models in that particular part of the fashion industry are just one of the thousands of things I hate about it. But I think that most feministing readers would agree that it's ridiculous to hold women to such a standard. But that's what Top Model is about. Can't we just agree that the whole thing is ridiculous? I mean really, I'm just as idealistic as the next girl, but there are some adversaries that are simply a waste of time and energy to fight at this point. High fashion is one of those enemies. I don't think we should give up hope that this will change, but I think it's more effective to start from the ground up...to make real women feel comfortable in their real bodies until designers no longer have the power to inspire anorexia and bulimia in women young and old across the world.

As for Tyra herself, I think we need to consider where she's coming from. She's let her body change since her supermodel days, but she's still a t.v. star. There's only so much she can get away with. I think the comments made about the photo are evidence of that. And maybe she was just doing that show to feel validated. But you know, that's what you get on daytime TV...it's largely self-serving. I don't think that should discredit the remarks that she made and that much of her audience may feel a little more comfortable in their own skin as a result. Sure she's still skinny and pretty, but that's not a crime. Skinny pretty people still feel insecure sometimes.

Maybe she is shallow and hypocritical, I don't know, I've never met her and I wouldn't really call myself a fan of hers, but only because I don't watch TV, not because I think she's not worthy of some respect. No one is perfect and I would say celebrities have less freedom to try to be because their careers are dictated by ratings...and the ratings are dictated by their appearance.

I'm sure she was genuinely hurt by the comments made about the "fat" picture. And it's her show, she has every right to use that as a platform to defend herself. While I don't think her remarks are going to change the world, I don't mind claiming it as a small victory that a woman on national TV smacked the fat on her thighs and got a standing ovation for it.

A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

Well...she isn't. I do think that she needs to come out and say she isn't fat. I mean, if Tyra's such a fat ass, I'm surprised that many of us can fit through doors.

I do think that she needs to come out and say she isn't fat.

I think what she should've done was said, "Yeah, that's me. So what?"

This is a start but 100 celebrities need to speak against oppressive beauty standards. A few years ago, Jamie Lee Curtis revealed what she looked like without photo shopping and three hours of makeup and wardrobe.

She looks like an average mom

After a three-hour makeover that involved the skills of 13 people

"We knew the article was important," said Susan Crandall, editor-in-chief of the magazine, targeted to women in their 40s and 50s. "But we didn't know how huge it would be. Even a 23-year-old assistant at the 'Today' show, after we were on last week, said that the article made her feel so much better about her body."

'Today' interviewer Campbell Brown seemed aghast at Curtis' boldness, as if being photographed as she really looks is more shocking than being photographed topless (as Curtis was in "Trading Places").

What struck me was when she demonstrated that when she stands like this they admire her svelt model body and say she is thin, but when she stands like this she is criticized for being so fat. I think this was specifically directed at women who are being criticized for being fat when they are not. I don't watch her show and I don't know her. What I do know is that the obsession with constantly measuring women with regard to the level of pleasure they provide any random viewer strikes me as idiocy.

thebewilderness writes:
What I do know is that the obsession with constantly measuring women with regard to the level of pleasure they provide any random viewer strikes me as idiocy.

AMEN.

It's also cruel to the vast majority of women, who are (to any well-adjusted human being) just as attractive as Tyra Banks but far more likely to look "fat" from a random angle in a swimsuit.

I do not even want to think about how many women have killed themselves because fucking men have decided that they're not attractive enough.

I have seen many women rise above this. I have also seen many women never rise above this. There is a reason the local Face and Body Clinic is headed up by a bunch of filthy rich assholes.

It breaks my heart. Breaks my heart more that we have a culture that propagates this, and that virtually no men care, and that many women don't care either. This is part of the reason why hanging around with feminists--in person or online--is so refreshing for me. It's no fun being the only person in town who isn't a cannibal.

Cheers,

TH

"What struck me was when she demonstrated that when she stands like this they admire her svelt model body and say she is thin, but when she stands like this she is criticized for being so fat."

I totally agree with you here, that was the one part I thought was worth watching the clip for.

A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

And if a national magazine had a picture of you with a critical caption under it, you wouldn't defend yourself? Using her talk show to thumb her nose at the hyper-critical world of gossip magazines was an excellent way to set the facts straight.

TH writes: This is part of the reason why hanging around with feminists--in person or online--is so refreshing for me. It's no fun being the only person in town who isn't a cannibal.

Same here.

And if a national magazine had a picture of you with a critical caption under it, you wouldn't defend yourself?

I do think she should be applauded for standed up for herself. But, the thing that gets under my skin is that she's in a position to remove the ugliness from the word "fat".

It's not the end of the world when someone calls you fat. It's not the end of the world if you are fat. For her to stand on national TV and basically say, "I admit I'm not the most beautiful woman in the world, but I'm sure as hell not fat" was disparaging for me as a fat woman. (Because, as always, it's okay to have a little "junk -in-the-trunk" just as long as you're not a total fat ass. [/sarcasm])

I would just expect more from a woman who so openly encourages plus-size modeling on both of her shows.

My experience of TB comes entirely from the late 90s, when she was having an affair with NY Liberty basketball point guard Teresa Weatherspoon and sitting courtside at all her games--so I'm rather fond of her.

The idea that a woman who is 6 ft tall is "fat" at 160 pounds is laughable--though I do appreciate her fending off her critics. And guys (and girls): you'd be beyond lucky if she'd look at you on your best day.

Her speech would really be more meaningful if she wasn't reading it off a moniter.

Love,
knightess

"I do not even want to think about how many women have killed themselves because fucking men have decided that they're not attractive enough."

It's not just men. My mom calls me obese for having hips wider than my waist.

I agree with Nancy ("the idea that a woman who is 6 ft tall is 'fat' at 160 lbs is laughable"). Malaika, I'm sick and tired of hearing slender women complain that they're fat (or, in this case, gossipmongers saying that a 160-lb. Tyra Banks is fat). She's not--it's not a matter of fat acceptance, but a matter of getting the facts straight. If she "owned up to being fat," then I think that would be disparaging (or, at least, evidence of being completely out of touch with reality, like people who try to get need-based scholarships based on the "poverty" brought on by the payments on their boat and their second house--that's from personal experience, by the way).

That six-foot-tall Victoria's Secret model is going to have to gain more than she has before she gets to join the "fat club." I'm glad she recognizes that and that she called them on it, because it shows that she has a realistic image of her own body and she's not freaked out over how it's changed a bit. And that she owns up to the "magic of the camera" and doesn't claim to be all glamour, all the time. She's saying that even Tyra Banks doesn't look the way Tyra Banks looks in airbrushed shots after hours of makeup and wardrobe--and I think that shows that she takes some responsibility for the impressions of girls who may look to her as a role model. I think that's about as much of a body-positive message that you'll get from that industry, so I appreciate it.

Why must anyone sneer at, belittle, or second-guess Tyra or her feelings?
A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

This is my first time posting here (I'm a 50-year old Black woman), but I'm appalled by some of the remarks. They're so condescending, so superior, so self-congratulatory. Since when did it become de rigueur to pile on? I'd like to think that being a feminist, or socially aware or at a minimum self aware, is liberating. That is, one then becomes free of other's expectations, and consequently is then free to do and be what one decides. Tolerance is then recognizing that same freedom applies to others also. Therefore, in my mind, Tyra is free to say she's fat or not fat. She is free to laugh or cry at her critics, to take them on or ignore them, to bring it to her audience or to refrain from publicly discussing it. Being overweight myself after living over 45 years relatively fat-free, I know I would throw some kind of hissy fit if someone dared to take my picture, without my permission I might add, and then disrespect me! Oh, heads would roll. And that would just be the start of it!
I don't watch Tyra's show, so I don't have any comment about it.

BTW, I'm not talking about freedom of speech or political correctness. One is free to believe what one wants and to think what one desires. Nevertheless, if a person decides to air those beliefs or thoughts, then they become fair game.

Why must anyone sneer at, belittle, or second-guess Tyra or her feelings?
A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

This is my first time posting here (I'm a 50-year old Black woman), but I'm appalled by some of the remarks. They're so condescending, so superior, so self-congratulatory. Since when did it become de rigueur to pile on? I'd like to think that being a feminist, or socially aware or at a minimum self aware, is liberating. That is, one then becomes free of other's expectations, and consequently is then free to do and be what one decides. Tolerance is then recognizing that same freedom applies to others also. Therefore, in my mind, Tyra is free to say she's fat or not fat. She is free to laugh or cry at her critics, to take them on or ignore them, to bring it to her audience or to refrain from publicly discussing it. Being overweight myself after living over 45 years relatively fat-free, I know I would throw some kind of hissy fit if someone dared to take my picture, without my permission I might add, and then disrespect me! Oh, heads would roll. And that would just be the start of it!
I don't watch Tyra's show, so I don't have any comment about it.

BTW, I'm not talking about freedom of speech or political correctness. One is free to believe what one wants and to think what one desires. Nevertheless, if a person decides to air those beliefs or thoughts, then they become fair game.

I've never watched any of her shows and don't really have any opinion on her, good or bad, but I think it's very positive for girls and young women to see 1) that a woman can tell her critics off using the same media and 2) that even gorgeous and thin women like Tyra can be insecure about their looks and are criticized for not fitting an impossible ideal. So, go Tyra!

And also, what thebewilderness said.

Wow. People are just *loving* my little "Best Week Ever" quote, aren't they?

If, somehow, anyone missed it:

A comic on "Best Week Ever" summed it up perfectly for me when he said, "Y'know, for a woman who says that there's nothing wrong with being fat, she sure is going to a lot of trouble convincing everyone that she isn't."

I've expanded on what I've said in two other comments. No I won't repost those. Find them yourself. Here's how: hold Ctrl-F; type "Malaika924", without the quotes; and you'll see everything I've written.

I know this is sounding bitchy, but all I've been trying to do is get across one simple litte point, and I've been blasted at every turn. That point: FAT IS NOT EVIL! Being called fat is not the end of the world! Being fat is not the end of the world! (There I go repeating myself again. Oh well.)

HearTheFire, I really do think that it is about fat acceptance. She's been targeted by gossip columns and tabloids before, but she's never gone on national TV and cried in front of a studio audience to set the record straight!

Turn to any channel, flip through almost any magazine and you'll see an ad for some miracle cure against "ugly fat bulges". Turn on any news program and see a report on the "war against fat". (And don't you love the way that they zoom in on people's stomachs and asses? [/sarcasm]) And then I see a former supermodel throwing a hissyfit over being called (gasp!) FAT! SO WHAT?!

Dear Tyra Banks,
Congratulations. You are not fat. But guess what? The world did not spin off its axis because someone published some less-than-flattering pictures of you. Get over yourself.

Hugs and kisses!
~ Me

You're right--fat is not evil, and the whole thing is about fat acceptance. I just don't accept that Tyra Banks should "accept" that she is fat--because she is not (that's what I meant about fat acceptance in my previous post--it's not about Tyra accepting that she's fat). I am glad that she doesn't "accept" that, because that would perpetuate unrealistic perspectives of women's bodies. She seems genuinely pissed off at the media because they use "fat" as an epithet. And because society uses "fat" as an epithet. Never does she concede that she looked better when she was thinner. Instead, she goes off on what these messages do to other women (do you notice that's the moment when she gets emotional?). That's going a couple steps further than, "Yeah, that's me, so what," in my opinion. She didn't come out in body-camouflaging clothes and complain that they were picking on her, or act meek about it, or claim they altered the photo, or start "Tyra's Diet Club" with the audience. Instead, she got loud and defiant. She came out in the same bathing suit, used the opportunity to stand up for other women, slapped her own thighs, and shouted, "Kiss my fat ass!" Doesn't sound like "fat=ugly" to me.

And if she was doing it for self-serving reasons, to validate herself, then (again), so what? A lot of people who do good things are, deep down, using that same motivation. If you're an activist for any cause, then think about what marching/chanting/showing up at the clinic on a cold morning/gathering signatures/blogging, etc., does for your self-image. If you say it does nothing, then you're probably not being completely honest with yourself. And, frankly, the speaker's motivation is insignificant compared to the effect it has on the audience (which, in her case, is a broad one). If a fraction of her viewers walked away thinking, "Yeah, Media! Piss off!" and walked out the door feeling slightly less self-conscious about their shape, then WOO-HOO!

malaika, this isn't about fat acceptance -- any more than if someone said I was gay and I said "no, I'm not" would be about gay acceptance. Granted, if it happened to me, I would follow it up with "and anyway, why do you say that? Do you think there's something wrong with being gay? Is that supposed to be an insult?" And hopefully their homophobic ass would be too embarrassed to say anything more. But nonetheless, I'm entitled to correct the record as to what I am or am not.

Now, do we have a big "fat" (no pun intended) problem in socity with fat acceptance? Yes we do. That's not the point. Someone called Tyra something she isn't, and she is calling them out for it. I'm 5'7" and 140 pounds. That makes me, adjusting for height, just slightly chubbier than Tyra. I wear a size fucking six. You wanna tell me I should just come out and admit to being "fat"? That's ridiculous.

Tyra might be in a position to question cultural myths about "fat"ness. Then again -- I don't believe her show (at least not Next Top Model) is self-produced. Thus, she is limited by what her producers tell her to do (and most producers, being rich, have a HUGE incentive to maintain the status quo). It would be great for Tyra to take on the fashion industry for making fat=ugly. But I don't think she has that kind of power.

Also, Tyra has featured plus-sized contestants on Next Top Model, some of whom have gotten fairly far. She never puts them down for their size. She helps them see and empower their inner beauty. In my mind, that's pretty awesome -- I truly think she's doing her part to help women. Now, Janice Dickinson, on the other hand...

You know, I kind of like Tyra Banks, myself.

And Janice Dickinson is indeed brutal. She's like a female Simon Cowell, but without the wit.

Cheers,

TH

Tyra is a self-involved twit. This is just an opportunity for her to show off her bod.

I wouldn't put it past her to put on a few lbs just for the publicity. Oprah made it on her merits against the odds, but you can't forget that her yo yo dieting did get her a lot of publicity. Anyone remember the tub of lard in the wagon? Tyra's probably just trying to do the same, in a dishonest way.

Pffft...like Tyra speaks for the everywoman.

Dear Tyra Banks,
Congratulations. You are not fat. But guess what? The world did not spin off its axis because someone published some less-than-flattering pictures of you. Get over yourself.

Umm, blow things out of proportion much? No one said it's the end of the world. If it's no big deal, why go on and on about it because someone called you out on your opinion?

"Umm, blow things out of proportion much? No one said it's the end of the world. If it's no big deal, why go on and on about it because someone called you out on your opinion?"

im not the person that wrote what you are responding too but knowing that tyra STILL held a grudge against naomi campbell and had her on the show YEARS after all the stuff between them happened (and had basically been resolved according to naomi) i think its safe to say tyra WILL go on and on about this and treat it like its the end of the world. just like she did with her boobs. bets, anyone?

I am ashamed that the feminist community is so hateful toward a woman who has done so little. This isn't about academic criticism, this is a woman saying - for whatever reason - that women should be happy with their bodies. Don't read into it and try and manipulate it to be evil - be thrilled that a mainstream supermodel is saying this. We're here to celebrate women, not to pick out another woman who's doing that and say, "But I think she might not mean it or isn't perfect or doesn't fulfil my feminist icon checklist." There is no acceptance or tolerance in this, much less support of women.

I don't understand why so many folks are jumping Tyra Banks, but giving other supermodels a free ride. I mentioned Janice Dickinson, whose behavior is much nastier and who has done much more to promote the "you should all look like me" meme, and you can hear the crickets chirp on that one.

Cheers,

TH

malaika, this isn't about fat acceptance -- any more than if someone said I was gay and I said "no, I'm not" would be about gay acceptance.

Calling someone fat and calling someone gay: apple and oranges. I think it's doing a real disservice to our gay brothers and sisters to compare all of the discrimination they go through to what it feels like to be called fat.

Secondly, I do believe it is about fat acceptance. Fat acceptance is more than size discrimination or protesting the billion-dollar weight-loss industry. To me, it's about not giving a damn when someone laughs at how I look in my jeans. It's about feeling a large rock in the pit of my stomach when I hear 2 teens who could Paris and Nichole's twins talk about how fat they are. It's about turning around and facing some punk who's just called me a fat bitch and saying, "Yeah. And?" It's about not cringing when I that little three-letter word.

I know that Tyra isn't as big as, well, me. But I do believe that she is in a position to remove some of the ugliness associated with the word fat. And when she appeared on People magazine with the headline "You Call This Fat?" I feel she could've done better.

BTW, her production company Bankable Productions does produce ANTM.

If it's no big deal, why go on and on about it because someone called you out on your opinion?

Because until the moderators kick me out I can say whatever I want.

I don't understand why so many folks are jumping Tyra Banks, but giving other supermodels a free ride.

Because Tyra's the only one in the clip.

Yes, another one by me. Aren't you glad? ^_^

One thing that's gotten under my skin is how people on this board have actually had the nerve to question my feminist ideals just because I happen to disagree with the majority on this whole Tyra issue. To those people I say:

Fuck you, bitches. Don't think you know me. Don't think you ever will know me.

It's that kind of trifling attitude that cause some women to become disenchanted with feminism. That more-righteous-than-thou BS needs to quit and it needs to quit now if we feminists want to be taken seriously.

On a much happier note, I'd like to thank HearTheFire:
I do believe you actually took some time to try and understnad my point of view and really do appreciate you for it. And I want you to understand that I do see your side of the issue, and it's helped me to look at it from another perspective. Thank you.

Malaika writes:
It's that kind of trifling attitude that cause some women to become disenchanted with feminism. That more-righteous-than-thou BS needs to quit and it needs to quit now if we feminists want to be taken seriously.

Taken seriously by whom?

Why all this constant emphasis on mainstreaming feminism to make it more acceptable to people who refuse to see the moral necessity of it? A little bit of a tangent, I'll admit, but I'm curious--what's this business I keep hearing about how feminism isn't "credible"? Was it "credible" to be an integrationist in Mississippi in 1960? Of course not. People did it anyway.

I know that Tyra isn't as big as, well, me. But I do believe that she is in a position to remove some of the ugliness associated with the word fat. And when she appeared on People magazine with the headline "You Call This Fat?" I feel she could've done better.

Could you point me to the post in this thread where anyone said "She couldn't have done better"? Everybody can do better. I can do better. I'm sure you can do better. That's the human condition. What I want to know is what Tyra Banks did to deserve this level of condemnation--a level of condemnation that white supermodels never get.

Cheers,

TH

Tom, you're a sweetheart, but I really think that everything I posted just flew right over your head.

And honestly, when on earth did Tyra's race get brought into this?

Hey, look. 215 comments about this clip on the show's website. It's a mixed bag--there's some of the "you're not fat, you're pretty" variety, but there's also a lot of the "thanks for helping me put my baby weight in perspective" variety. Pretty interesting.

http://telepicturesblog.warnerbros.com/tyrashow/2007/02/tyra_confronts_her_critics.html#comments

sncreducer:

So while the message Tyra's putting out there may be good, the messenger herself lacks credibility.

Therefore you should, what, shoot the messenger? I'd prefer to focus on the message.

As easy as it may be to go around dismissing a statement by a female model as shallow, superficial, narcissistic, self-indulgent, or whatever you please, I think that the vices of the nasty little gossip-rag men who are picking apart Tyra Banks and any other female celebrity they can sink their claws into are doing a lot more damage than whatever vices Tyra Banks might herself have. Why have Tyra Banks's personal virtues or vices become the main topic of discussion, rather than the sort of overtly sexist malice that she's rightfully trashing?

I haven't commented on this post because my entire reaction can be summed up as "I am so uninterested in models that I can't be bothered to watch the clip," but I know that very little gets past Tom.

"That more-righteous-than-thou BS needs to quit and it needs to quit now if we feminists want to be taken seriously."

Eh, I don't buy it. This kind of posturing is part of every single political movement, on the left and the right. It hasn't stopped the Christian fundamentalists from acquiring clout. It's just part of how humans are in groups.

"Therefore you should, what, shoot the messenger?"

No, I'm simply acknowledging that there are more credible messengers for this message. The credibility of the speaker DOES matter, after all - or would you take Tyra's words with equal weight if they were coming out of a fat old man?

I'm just pointing out that the Tyra that rises, righteous and indignant, to defend her OWN honor is very different than the Tyra that runs "Top Model." I'm pointing out that whatever positive effect Tyra's words here may have on the self-images of girls and women may amount to a push or even a loss on the Big Board of Cognitive Dissonance when tallied up against the images and ideals that Tyra serves on "Top Model."

If she is truly committed to changing the belief structure so girls and women can have a more positive self-image, there are ways she can do that, in front of and behind the camera, today and every day, that do not require an entire episode of her talk show or a press release to make sure that her name is on everyone's lips for the next week. We'll see.

Maybe slightly O/T, but upon my entry into the MySpace universe this evening a bright flashing advertisement offered me a free ipod* if I answered the burning question, "IS TYRA FAT!?!"

(My first post and I'm sorry I can't offer any more insight...it's been a long day :/)