Allow me to express an anal pet peeve: Espresso.

That's all I got.

They even have pictures of them off duty?? I watched a movie last night entitled Idiocracy (by Mike Judge, same guy who did Office Space) and the Starbucks of the future was giving out lattes - code for hand jobs... and here I thought it was just a joke.

This is by far one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a really long time. If they were actually uniforms, then I might just blow it off and chalk it up to a standard bull-shit excuse to objectify women...which, you know, makes me mad enough, but this is so much worse.

I looked at the website and it seems like a really bad stunt. At least if they were all dressed alike it would look pseudo-professional, but a bunch of girls in different kinds of underwear just looks silly. and Cowgirl Espresso? what the hell do cowgirls have to do with it?

another thing that really bothered me was that working an espresso bar in your underwear doesn't seem safe. I was a barista for a few years and I still have some burn scars. Fortunately mine are on my forearms and not on my stomach/thighs/tits. Christ, I don't know how they get girls to do this crap....

And for MINIMUM WAGE? even starbucks pays more than minimum wage.

As a former barista and coffee connoisseur, I find that udderly offensive. Seriously- they are going to diss espresso with scantily clad women?

Cowgirls is a complete shithole, as far as Seattle is concerned. No one with any respect for women, or really for humans in general, lets themselves get dragged there more than once, if that. It hardly counts as surprising that they'd do something like this -- the rest of the place is no better.

i completely dont understand many aspects of that place...why dont those girls just be strippers for chrissake? i mean its pretty much the same thing (not all strippers are nude ya know..some even are required to wear pasties/bras) just your making a hell of alot more than minimum wage!

What sort of self-esteem must a woman have to weigh the following decision: "I could either work at Starbucks, which borders on the side of evil, but pays more than minimum wage and has health insurance, and I could wear actual clothes, OR I could make $5.15 an hour parading around in my knickers! Leering and lattes! Sold!"

I mean seriously. What is going on with these women that this was the logical choice?

I wouldn't like to be near one of those machines near naked.

Interestingly, off duty they all appear to prefer being fully clothed in t-shirts and jeans. Which should tell the customers something.

this made me want to cry.

sometimes i feel like im just never going to understand the world im forced to live in.

thedivineash:

I'm right there with you. It makes me really sad for the future when I see stuff like this.

Sometimes, I just want to move out to the middle of nowhere and start a farm or something. But then I remember, if I want to change the world I live in, I have to actually live in it.

"What sort of self-esteem must a woman have to weigh the following decision: "I could either work at Starbucks, which borders on the side of evil, but pays more than minimum wage and has health insurance, and I could wear actual clothes, OR I could make $5.15 an hour parading around in my knickers! Leering and lattes! Sold!"

I mean seriously. What is going on with these women that this was the logical choice?"

Eesh. I don't know. I went to college with a girl who worked at a Hooters, and she said the same thing about tips being shitty--but at least she didn't have to operate an espresso machine (steam burns are so much worse) nearly naked.

All that aside, isn't there some kind of health code violation there too? I mean, seriously.

I don't know what it says about the women- maybe they're exhibitionists?

I'm waaaay more disturbed/angry at the customers who frequent places like this, and the management who think that this is a good idea than I am at the women who choose to work there, personally.

I too am amazed anyone would voluntarily work at such a job. It makes about as much sense to me as the women who participate in those "Girls Gone Wild" videos. Then again, the GGW women at least have being drunk and/or harboring naive dreams of her GGW appearance somehow catapulting her into instant celebrity (thank you, reality TV!) as excuses. As others have pointed out, you can make more money with your clothes ON at Starbucks, and more with them OFF as a stripper if that's what floats your boat--so why do it there for minimum wage?
Are they giving away free tshirts, or something?

RoymacIII:

Yeah I agree with you. The women wouldn't be in such big demand if there wasn't a large male customer base. And I'm sure plenty of the customers would say that they "respect women" too. I know a few guys like this. Ugh.

isn't there some kind of health code violation there too?

Pubic hairnets?

Some of them are probably just desperate for employment. Not everyone can work at Starbucks, you know, regardless of their ridiculous number of locations. I assume the place has an extremely high turnover rate. They probably work for a month or so, get a little barista experience, and leave the second they get another job.

And yes, it sounds really dangerous. It must be lots of fun to work all day with a burn on your stomach.

The only other thing I have to say is that I am SO FUCKING TIRED of businesses trying to boost their profits by turning women into the product. That's really all I can say.

I really don't know what to say to this. I know that sex sells and I know that it especially sells to women but sheesh. If these women WERE exhibitionists then they'd get more kicks just being half naked for free or earning a lot more in tips as an actual stripper, as some have already pointed out.

I can't imagine that there are no jobs at any of the Starbucks in these neighborhoods so really I can't wrap my mind around why any woman would want to do this, aside from this comment:

[I]"Your customers freakin' adore you. Everybody's excited to see you," Law said. "You spend a few minutes with them and they leave."[I]

Um, yeah, and, AGAIN, I can think of a few more jobs where that applies and you'd still make more money.

It must make these men feel like freakin' geniuses to know that they can get women to go skimpy for either no pay or minimum wage and they can make all the big bucks.

The minimum wage in Washington is the highest in the country, almost $8. So, at the very least, they're not doing this for $5.15.

Allow me to express an anal pet peeve: Espresso.

Sooo with you, Lucizoe.

This article makes me all kinds of mad. Clearly people like this don't give a shit about my business, in spite of the fact that I regularly purchase a 4-dollar coffee in the morning, PLUS I often get a cup of fruit or yogurt. In addition, I frequently purchase gift cards for friends and family.

But who cares about teh womenz, right (at least, if we're straight and/or have no interest in objectifying teenage girls)? Yeah... Starbucks will be keeping my business, TYVM. Good to know I'm doing my part to ensure their barristas are paid a decent wage AND allowed to wear clothing to boot.

OH -- also. Everyone I know who's ever worked at Hooters reports the tips are shitty.

I do not understand how people can't get it through their heads that people who don't respect women aren't about to hand them a cent more than they have to to get what they want.

Having been a waitress at an establishment where the uniform was a sensible black polo shirt with the restaurant's logo embroidered near the collar, and clean white or black slacks or skirts, and neat hair kept out of your face, I can report that my best tips were always from women. If the woman paid, I could expect a better tip. If it was a group of women with no men, I could expect the best tips of all. Almost without exception, the women tipped much better than the men.

Also, my boss (one of my former college professors) was an awesome awesome person. He was a serious feminist and one time almost kicked a customer out for hitting on me. I still keep in touch with him.

Oh this is sad - I know one of the young women pictured on the site.

If these women WERE exhibitionists then they'd get more kicks just being half naked for free or earning a lot more in tips as an actual stripper, as some have already pointed out.

I just found it puzzling that some people were more interested in blaming or attacking the women involved (some of whom, I believe the article says, are still in highschool). I mean, yeah, I don't think that they're helping matters, but, really, I guess I expected to see more outrage at the customers and owners, and less "What's wrong with these women? They could make more money as strippers or at Starbucks"- which I'm not sure is true, anyway. Around my area, at least, Starbucks doesn't let you tip, but the article seems to suggest that these girls are making pretty good tips "she makes more in tips than she ever did as a waitress at Hooters. One recent morning, she served 400 customers between about 6 a.m. and noon." Even if only half of them tipped, and they gave her a dollar, that's still $200 for six hours work, which is a lot better than she'd do at Starbucks.

That bugs me. Like someone else said, I know that "sex sells," but... man... businesses like this... Bah.

They sell coffeemakers for like 9.99 at the grocery store, and the cashiers are fully clothed.

I read this article in the paper Tuesday. Later, I mentioned it to one of my customers and he told me that he won't buy from Cowgirls, but he has noted that the lines there are quite long in the morning. So, there are a lot of sorry men paying for this rise and shine service.

Finally, an ironic bit. The other paper in town (Seattle P-I) ran an article with an ironic twist: a man accused of stalking a barista pleaded not guilty in court.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/300712_stalker23.html

I just found it puzzling that some people were more interested in blaming or attacking the women involved
I don't see any attacking or blaming anywhere. I do see a lot of, what were they thinking? and why would a young woman be willing to do this? since it's so overtly exploitative, and some speculation on the possible answers to those questions, but that is (IMO, anyhow) neither "attacking" nor "blaming."

Oh this is sad - I know one of the young women pictured on the site.
Any chance you could ask her what reasons led her to work there?
I think a lot of us are wondering.

roymacIII is right. If one woman can serve 400 customers in six hours, and they are tipping even reasonably well, I can definitely see why these women take this job. Fox News interviewed one of the baristas and she made a big deal over the money she was making (I don't think she was gushing over her barista salary).

Asking a woman to operate an espresso machine, or (worse) a milk steamer, in her undies is just ridiculous. I mean, they may as well ask her to fry bacon while they're at it.

Tips at normal coffee shops are supposed to be really, really good, or at least they are at Cups (the local chain). There's no specified uniform, but the dress code is flexible; sometimes during the summer a coffee server will wear not much more than one of the women in those photographs, but that's her decision, which is completely different from saying "If you want to work here, strip down." Of course Cups has both male and female servers, and it's woman-owned.

Yes, I like looking at a woman's body. Heterosexual men generally do. I also like to hear a woman sing--but that doesn't mean I want my bank teller to do it. Something tells me that these kinds of businesses do not attract a customer base made up of healthy, well-adjusted males who just enjoy looking at women in underwear, but rather a customer base of men who get some kind of charge out of the power differential involved. Same with Hooters in many cases, though I hear Hooters at least has good wings. I don't know because I haven't been there, and I'm not going there, either, on general principle.

I do find it fascinating that the tips at Hooters suck relative to other restaurants. I wonder if that's the first tangible proof we can point to in saying that men who patronize businesses like that most likely don't "respect women"--quite the opposite.

Anyway, my bet is that businesses like Cowgirls and Hooters will ultimately suffer market saturation, since the gimmick of mandatory skimpy uniforms is the draw, and not the product. Add in the fact that they alienate at least half of their potential client base with this garbage, and you've got a recipe for bankruptcy.

Cheers,

TH

I consider myself a feminist and I'd personally never patronize a place like this. That said, I have a kinda hard time getting wound up about it. How do people around here feel about strip clubs? Because I can imagine one done "right", I suppose, and I guess this is just kinda half that and half coffee joint.

As best I can figure, there will always be at least a general sense of what is "attractive" in our society, and as long as that's the case, there will be people without much chance to encounter attractive people with their social ability (ie, they're not attractive themselves.) At that point, there exists a market, and while I can be something of a socialist myself, I realize that when one group of people wants something and another has it, places like this will exist. I'd simply appreciate if they're operated in the least insulting way possible.

I consider myself a feminist and I'd personally never patronize a place like this. That said, I have a kinda hard time getting wound up about it. How do people around here feel about strip clubs? Because I can imagine one done "right", I suppose, and I guess this is just kinda half that and half coffee joint.

As best I can figure, there will always be at least a general sense of what is "attractive" in our society, and as long as that's the case, there will be people without much chance to encounter attractive people with their social ability (ie, they're not attractive themselves.) At that point, there exists a market, and while I can be something of a socialist myself, I realize that when one group of people wants something and another has it, places like this will exist. I'd simply appreciate if they're operated in the least insulting way possible.

How do people around here feel about strip clubs?

FSM.

In polite conversation, you're not supposed to bring up politics or religion. In Feministing comment threads, you're not supposed to bring up porn, prostitution, sex, or stripping.

I don't see what the problem is. Nobody is forcing them to work there. And what if they like working there, wearing so little clothing? It's the same with porn, (some) prostitution and stripping. Nobody's making them do it, and they may very well enjoy it. This sort of rampant, unreasonable demonization of scantily-cladness is why I don't agree with all of feminism's stereotypical views.

I'm also seeing alot of complaints of men leering at women... Women do it to men, too. Or is that somehow okay while men leering at women isn't? How many of you women would be bitching up a storm if the situation at that coffee shop was the other way around- Hot young men in g-strings? I know I'd leer!

This sort of rampant, unreasonable demonization of scantily-cladness is why I don't agree with all of feminism's stereotypical views.

So... objecting to exploitation makes us "unreasonable"? I can understand wanting to distance yourself from unpopular feminist views for whatever reasons you may have, but characterizing the diverse views of people as to why this sort of thing is problematic, is (at best) overly broad and unfair. Indeed, it's borderline rude.

Alon, I disagree that the subjects of porn, stripping, prostitution, etc. are verboten on feministing. Indeed, we talk about them all the time. I personally find them all problematic -- not inherently, but because they occur against a background of male power and female oppression. Particularly if you look at the budget structure of most of these places -- men deriving the lion's share of profits for doing little more than recruiting attractive women to dance for paying customers -- you see that women are the losers however you toss the coin. I have a problem with that, and I think many others here do as well.

I agree TLF. I would also add that they have effects that go far beyond the interaction there. They result from and contribute to a cultural dynamic in which women are sexual objects, commodified and on display, and men are desiring sexual subjects, who, as the ones with the money, have the agency in the interaction. That attitude toward sexuality permeates our culture, and I think it sucks.

She said eloquently.

I second TLF and EG. As a heterosexual man who enjoys looking at women's bodies (and I reiterate this to show that the problem is not that heterosexual men enjoy looking at women's bodies, or what women have bodies), I obviously have no issue with women not wearing much in and of itself. What I have an issue with is the backdrop of oppression, of domination, of male commodification of sex, of contempt for the employees' health, and so on and so forth.

If a woman working at an ordinary coffee shop wanted to wear minimal clothing because she had an exhibitionistic streak, or thought she got more tips that way, and it wasn't against the dress code, I would have no problem with that. The issue becomes when her body is sold, by the owners, as the product. That is an explicit appeal to male dominance, and it's wrong.

I like to get my jollies as much as the next guy, but not at the expense of a woman's dignity or autonomy.

Cheers,

TH

Oh, and as far as strip clubs go: Not a fan. Never been to one and, God willing, never going to one.

Cheers,

TH

I'm actually very pleased with those responses to my post. I can certainly understand that it's the CONTEXT that can make those situations problematic. I just get very scared at the implications of believing that they're inherently problematic .

I tried writing a breakdown on why I don’t favor the strip club, porn and prostitution subjects but in the end it comes down to the same thing: this statement here:

“Nobody's making them do it, and they may very well enjoy it�

The phrase is called "consenting adults" I believe and it means to agree or approve.

In a society where numerous reports have agreed people think sex education in this country is a failure,
In a society where sexual content is easier to get than a damn bottle of water,
In a society where the porn industry is more booming than the sexual protection industry;

In *this* society I would be really interested in what constitutes a “consenting adult.�

If we can’t teach sex, if we can’t convince each other to protect themselves, and thus, their partners during it, and if we can’t question other’s sexual intentions as to how they affect the world we live in with out being called “demonizers�

then how in this great free world do we expect anyone to make informed decisions about sexual choices?

And, yes, I understand they are *choices*. But let us remember our ability to choose is limited by our ability to know. In my opinion, knowledge about sex is riding the extremist waves: guilt-ridden classroom academia or consequenceless, frivolous commodity.

People deserve better than the lowest common denominators.

If women choose to serve coffee in bras and panties, fine. But you'll have to excuse me for saying "Hold on a second. What's *really* going on here?"

Is this Cowgirls affiliated with the Seattle bar of the same name? Forgive me if that was mentioned before and I missed it, but if the two are related, I can't say I'm surprised - the bar features badly-poured, over-priced drinks (and scantily clad women) so why not expand that business venture to include badly-made, over-priced coffee as well?

Also, I cannot agree enough that it's probably pretty darned unsafe to barista in one's skivvies - almost every one of my friends was a barista at one point, and avoiding getting burned or scalded wasn't always possible.

In Feministing comment threads, you're not supposed to bring up porn, prostitution, sex, or stripping.

If you're male.

There are too many photos with Asians in them (even though there are only two Asian women). One of them looks like she's crosses over from porn to swilling coffee. This establishment is probably a cross between stripclub and coffeehouse. Unfortunately, as others have said, there's money in porn. I mean stripclub-coffeehouses.

Oh, and as far as strip clubs go: Not a fan. Never been to one and, God willing, never going to one.

I used to want to go to one just to analyze it but after reading a lot of blog comments about the sex industry it just depresses me.

If you're male.

No, the person who got flamed by Nerdlet and Lya Kahlo for being a stripper was very female.

Alon, I disagree that the subjects of porn, stripping, prostitution, etc. are verboten on feministing. Indeed, we talk about them all the time.

Yeah, in the same manner people bring up politics in polite company all the time, and with the same results.