I kept waiting to see adulterers out there as well. Where were the scarlet As emblazoned on their chests?

And I really find it ironic that a culture that has for so long controlled women and defined them by their sexuality(i.e. foot binding, birth rates, etc.) is now condemning these women they created.

It should be noted that though the Times article highlights the objections of Chinese citizens online in web forums, there are also people calling for harsher treatment of sex workers:

While voices condemning the behavior of the city and its police force were the most energetic, some spoke up in support of the crackdown. “Perhaps you’ve never been to Shenzhen, or you’ve been there and you don’t have a thorough understanding of the place,� wrote one contributor to an Internet forum. “A person who really knows Shenzhen would feel that this is not harsh enough, because the prostitution industry has become so prosperous there.�

Out of curiosity, what is the feminist line on prostitution? Are you upset over why these women are being shamed, or is it that they are being shamed that is offensive?

This Sunday, December 17th, is the International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers. www.swop-usa.org. There's educational forums and vigils happening all over (here in Vegas, we're having both). The red umbrella is the internat'l symbol to show your solidarity.

tRJ - That and how they are being shamed.

I've visited other blogs where some contributors are upset because they believe that other criminals are treated in this fashion through media, etc.

I completely disagree. These women were paraded out in public, WITHOUT trial, and allowed to stand before the public.

Seeing the pictures absolutely nauseates me.

tRJ, you'll excuse me if i don't take your comments here seriously. after all, you're someone who first came to feministing to argue that we're a boob blog.

Well, I asked my question in all seriousness.

But it's your blog, so you can do as you please. Although, to be fair, it should be noted that my first comment here said this:

"I don't know that it's fair to razz you about posing in a Clinton photo-op. Some people, when photographed, just pose. They're the ones people always call "'photogenic.'"

Remember: the US will *not* negotiate with terrorists! Or, um, countries that abuse the human rights we hold so dear. Unless, um, they hold a shitload of our bonds or there's oil under their countries.

This pisses me off so much. HELLO CHINA there wouldnt BE prostitution if all your precious (most likely married) MEN kept their dicks in their pants. You don't see them parading the men around of course (besides the pimps). I love it how since options are limitied to women and prostitution is lucrative and often the only way out of extreme poverty that the women get blamed for bad goverment policies and horny messed up men.

true, but i remember quite well how the conversation devolved. in any case, no need to hash it out. just wanted to let you know why i wouldn't be responding.

a "boob blog". nice. honestly, always reducing women to merely bodies. typical and SO not original.

Cities turn to humiliation to fight prostitution

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0721/p03s02-ussc.html

Anyone who thinks there's *a* "feminist line" on *anything* has probably never been in a room with two or more feminists.

The Swedish model should be instituted everywhere, that is, pimps and johns should be prosecuted not sex workers, until the profession fades away.

Well, that's just sick.

Just curious, what do we think of cities that shame the "Johns" by posting their names and mugshots in the newspapers and on the internet?

"You don't see them parading the men around of course (besides the pimps)."

Not true. Check the link noname provided.

"The Swedish model should be instituted everywhere, that is, pimps and johns should be prosecuted not sex workers, until the profession fades away."

I think the "war on prostitution" will be won about the same time we win the "war on drugs".

It could be pimps, johns, xxx website owners, prostitutes... the government cannot erase the problem with criminal prohibition. The very illegalization that causes price inflation and the thugs to be the arbiters of women's safety ensures that throwing one pimp in jail only creates a job opportunity.

The only time the criminal system comes close to a solution is in Megan's Law registration issues, but that's about public safety rather than the foolish notion that you're going be deterring pedophiles or sex criminals.

Katie - This pisses me off so much. HELLO CHINA there wouldnt BE prostitution if all your precious (most likely married) MEN kept their dicks in their pants. You don't see them parading the men around of course (besides the pimps).

Sure. But the horny men couldn't buy sex if there was no prostitution. Do you want to keep going in circles?

Raging Moderate - Just curious, what do we think of cities that shame the "Johns

heh, buddy, maybe you should think for yourself?

the government cannot erase the problem with criminal prohibition. The very illegalization that causes price inflation and the thugs to be the arbiters of women's safety ensures that throwing one pimp in jail only creates a job opportunity

interesting, norbizness. the main issue i have is the prosecution of sex workers and not pimps and johns. like with drugs, dealers get more time than users. there's a double standard here.

Considering China's Human Rights track record, these images do not surprise me. They sadden me, but they're really not surprising at all.
Here in New Zealand, prostitution has been legal for 2 years or so.
It is probably too early to see the long term effects of this, but i'm certainly happier knowing anyone working in the sex industry has full legal protection, and better healthcare.
Prior to 2004 we had extremely misogynistic laws that made it a crime to ask for payment for sex, but not a crime to offer payment for sex...

Yeah, and right on Nancy in NYC!
Of course there is no such thing as a "feminist line" on such a contentious issue!
It's a pretty funny idea...
We are nothing but 'droids parroting the Party line...

come to think of it, i'm for full decriminalization of drugs and prostitution. it will take away the black market that drives up drug prices and make sex workers lives safer and healthier.

Donna: Just so there's no misunderstanding, I am fully anti-what-the-fuck the Chinese are doing, I was just responding to the "imprisoning pimps makes the problem fade away." I have absolutely no desire to see criminal prosecution of the women either; that's just rubbing salt in the misogynist wound.

i know what you were saying. you actually reminded me of my previous stance on prostitution and drugs. that decriminalization is the best hope for decrease of sex work and drug use. everyone will be safer and healthier.

The pictures are heartbreaking.

Also, in response to tJR, anorak and others are right. there is no single Feminist policy on such issues! One can be a feminist and support sex work or not support it. However, many feminists do try to understand where these women are coming from (desperation, slavery, or personal expression) and would probably agree that its wrong to call prostitution an evil that is entirely the fault of the women alone.
For me, the question of the legality or morality of prostitution isn't even a feminist question, so much as a question of civil liberties and personal choice (effecting men and women) and socio-economics. Certainly feminist issues are explicit in most discusions of prostitution. But prostitution is not soley a feminist issue.
Also, sorry for using the word "evil". it's such an aburd notion to me. However, I feel so uncomfortable using this comment template that its the best my fried brain can come up with!

You are totally right, tankerton.
When prostitution was legalised here, it was basically on the grounds of Health and Safety...that there needed to be workplace safety standards for sex workers, that they should be able to insist on condom use (for example), that they could report abuse to the Police without fear of arrest etc.
It was definitely a contentious law-change, but the final passing of the bill in parliament was attributed, by many, to the impassioned speech made by one of our Ministers of Parliament, (kind of like a Representative) Georgina Beyer, who is herself a transgender ex-sex worker.

...feminists do try to understand where these women are coming from... and would probably agree that its wrong to call prostitution an evil that is entirely the fault of the women alone.

Thanks for for answering my question.

This is sickening and heart wrenching.

I do not see prostitution as "evil" in any sense of the word. I think the abuse and entrapment that can stem from prostitution can rightly be labled evil in many cases, but the exchange for sexual favors for money isn't the worst thing in the world - contrary to what many other people think.

That being said, I think that the people who sollicit prostitutes are far more to blame than the sex workers themselves. I am all for supporting sex workers rights, and think the only way to make sure that sex workers of all genders are fairly treated, have proper health care and legal rights, is to decriminalize it. It makes me very sad to see women selling their bodies, but I do not condemn them, but rather those who patronize them. I think it would be great to not have prostitution, however, until that day comes (and I don't see an end in sight) we need to protect the sex workers around the world and make sure that their human rights are not trampled on.

Sexual practises have NO impact on how human someone else, and I think it's appalling that these women were treated so cruelly and imprisoned without trial.

You've probably all noticed already, but the officers parading the women around are all female. Could be protocol for handling female inmates - but I'm guessing its more about a type of social shaming aimed at all females, not just sex workers. How very... 1984 of China?

Again, I apologize for using the word "evil". There are probably a lot of other words I could have used. I should have just said problem.
I'm really not adapt at this form of communication! And the smallness of the comment box always throws me off! Like I said, I think that the basic idea of evil is quite problematic and a bit absurd.
Personally, I'm fine (theoretically) with a lot of things that other people see as immoral, including the selling and buying of sex.
However, like many of you, I recognize the real injustices in much sex work and how society and govt.'s criminalize the sex worker more often and severely than the patron.

This is really strange, I live in China at the moment and never saw it on the news. I'm surprised the links weren't blocked actually :S

aside from being absurdly cruel, this strikes me as incredibly ineffective, unless the shenzen officials are intending to increase prostitution.

i mean, we're talking about women who, considering the economics of poverty in china, are mostly involved in prostitution for survival, not as a wholly free choice.

as i understand it, many chinese sex workers are rural women who have moved to urban areas for greater opportunities and never found those opportunities. by publicly shaming them, the police have effectively torpedoed their chances of seeking alternate employment.

on top of it all, the psychological and social impact of being so publicly shamed, before friends, family and acquaintances, will no doubt make many of these already marginalized women significantly more vulnerable to pimps and organized crime, which, as has been well pointed out, is often strengthened by prohibition.

especially as actions like this drive sex workers further underground, it makes them more exploitable... in a country that is just starting to make strides toward combating aids, such grandstanding actions endanger the positive steps the government is taking.

peace

Livy wrote: "You've probably all noticed already, but the officers parading the women around are all female. Could be protocol for handling female inmates - but I'm guessing its more about a type of social shaming aimed at all females, not just sex workers. How very... 1984 of China?"

I don't see the how the presence of female guards shows that this is to shame all females. Could you explain for me? Thanks.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear enough. While allowing that the female guard's presence could merely be how female inmates are handled in China, I meant to point out that the female guards' presence makes women's participation in shaming other women explicit, rather than implicit. This in turn reinforces negative relationships between women. The point of my post was to wonder how intentional this was on the part of the government.

That makes alot of sense, Livy. Men have used women as proxies for subjugating women for centuries so women are blamed for their own oppression.

e.g. Phyllis Schlafly.

I do like the idea of "shaming" johns and pimps, though. What a shock when your co-workers see your face on a police billboard! Wonderful deterrence.

Smaing prostitutes or johns is a mistake. It doesn't help reduce crime, all it does is help some people who hate either men or women get their jollies. I'm not into helping out anyone sadism.

The only inter4st governments should really have in prostitution is to regulate it to the point where no diseases are spread (HIV tests, mandatory condom use etc.) and to make sure it does create slavery.

Behaviour is either legal or illegal. If behaviour is destructive towards society or individuals, then you have to punish everyone. Yopu can't punish johns and allow prostitutes to go free. There are two reasons why prostitutes exist. Supply, and Demand. If you target either one, you don't solve the problem. You have to target both or you just drive up, or drive down, prices. Even if you ignore the severe moral implications of deciding that supplying a 'harmful' product is 'okay' if most everyone who does it shares your gender. Women have choices, barring acts of slavery, and as such have responsibility. Prostution requires prostitutes as well as johns.

What good does getting rid of the demand do? Do you think it helps sex workers to starve them out of the line of work they felt was their best (or only) option?

It drives me crazy when I hear people who claim to care about sex workers suggest such a thing. Decreasing the demand means lowering safety standards, agreeing to do acts they wouldn't normally agree to, charging less and doing business with men who are rude or creepy. A prostitute who hasn't had any business all evening is less likely to turn down someone just because she got a bad vibe from him.

I'm really sick of all this painting johns out to be the bad guys. The truth is, there are plenty of prostitutes who are horrible people, and many men who hire sex workers who are kind hearted, decent human beings. And I say this having plenty of first hand knowledge on the subject.

As for the story at the heart of this post- yes, it's terrible that they did that. But I agree with what others have said that we can be just as bad here in the US

As evidenced here
(if I wanted to take the time, I could find you plenty more examples).

Interestingly enough, the photo from the news article reminded me of the South Korean sex workers
who took to the streets of Seoul in protest of the crackdowns on their livelihood, that resulted from pressure by the US.

People like Donna Hughes, Norma Hotaling, John Miller and Michael Horowitz have caused misery and despair in the lives of countless prostitutes around the globe, and thus far, we've had no evidence of actual women saved. How dare they pretend to care about us.