More than terrible.

"Twenty-four per cent of mothers said their children had seen them drunk."

I...don't see the problem here. Is this stat broken down by age of child? I mean, not only did I see my mom drunk when I was 16...I got drunk with her. Are women supposed to sign a non-intoxication pact for 18 years following birth? Many adults have a few drinks for relaxation and fun. Sometimes those of us who indulge will get tipsy. A ten-year-old is going to be scarred for life because Mom is giggly one night? Whatever.

"But it seems that one glass is not enough any more for many women."

Horrors! They might have...two glasses! When I lived in England, I noticed an awful lot of binge drinking, and at least half of it was by men. What are the stats on kids seeing their dear daddies drunk?

A note that I agree with EJ that binge drinking is bad for everybody involved, but I really hate the way "having a drink or two" is so easily elided with "binge drinking," as well as the idea that people give up the right to relax in an adult manner when they become parents.

I don't have a problem with drinking, but I do have a problem with children seeing their parents drunk! There's a big difference between a couple of glasses of wine and being plastered. I wouldn't want my child to see me that way - if I have to get drunk, I'd call a babysitter or something.

I'm assuming that "child" is broken down by 12 and under. That said, in the U.S. anyway, it would not be appropriate for a mom to provide alcohol to a 16 year old - Since alcohol has certain detrimental effects on physical development, or so I'm led to understand.

I don't know--it wasn't legal, but I think it was fairly appropriate. And fun, too! I haven't noticed any detrimental physical effects, but I was drinking in and out of the presence of my Mom starting from when I was 16, and I'm all right. Grew pretty tall and everything! (Though anecdotal evidence is worth very little.) They say caffeine stunts growth too...

Mmm hmmm.

And what percentage of men get drunk on the weekends? And what percentage of their fathers have been witnessed drunk by their children? And what percentage of men have been unfaithful while drunk? No one's writing articles about that.

Double fucking standard.

True, Dr.BH.

But I kind of felt from the article that they felt sorry for the moms. Not that they were coming down on them. Presumably, the reason they are so stressed is because the male who impregnated them wasn't around to do any effing work.

EG, what can I say? I'm not saying your mom is a bad mom, just that that isn't my cup of tea. :)

Urg. Should just say "fathers", not "their fathers."

No worries--I wasn't taking it personally! I tend to over-react a little on these issues because there's a puritanical streak in US culture that I just don't like very much. But the UK, as I should remember, is a whole different story when it comes to alcohol.

It is true that American is very uncomfortable with a lot of things the rest of the world isn't.

My boyfriend is Australian and he is continually amused at my shock whenever a movie shows full or partial nudity. He thinks I'm a bit of a prude and I think that's just not something I need to see. But we're good-natured about it.

God help us when/if we ever have children, though. I can envision a LOT of paradigm-shifting moments. Especially including alcohol, since I was pretty much raised in a "dry" home and old habits die very hard.

:D

Bleh. Typo correction:

First line should read:

"That IS true - America is very uncomfortable with a lot of things the rest of the world isn't."

This is definitely American puritanism at work (ironically, the actual Puritans were less reticent about being seen with a buzz on). They want all the wom,en with kids to be pure and flawless (bloodless, sexless, jobless) Mommies.

Now hold on a second, niceguy. :)

I'm an American and I don't think I'm all THAT puritanical. I think women should be able to do whatever the hell they want, for the most part.

That said, I don't think I'm a total prude for thinking it's sad to see a parent drunk.

Did you know that something like 70% of child abuse is by a parent? Did you know that most of that abuse occurs when the parent is drunk or otherwise intoxicated?

Apart from the fact that parents are statistically much more likely to abuse children when drunk, children have a psychological need to experience the world and especially their family as stable and predictable. Children who do NOT perceive their parents as stable and predictable are far more likely to have emotional attachment problems later in life. And I, for one, have never known a drunk to be stable or predictable.

Now, I'm not saying women should be effectively crucified for being drunk in front of their children. That said, I believe I have valid, scienticfically supported reasons to personally believe that it's not good parenting.

You are welcome to disagree. But don't assume that anyone who thinks differently is "puritanical". Because we're not. :)

The Drunkard's Child's Song: "Papa, dear Papa, come home with me now

Oh, and the 1960s? How about the classic Beatles Song "Mother's Little Helpers" about the 1950s housewife's rampant pill popping

To expand on my earlier post (darn that "Post" key - EJ's post correctly observes that being drunk in front of your children every night is not optimal parenting. However, EJ is ignoring the thing everyone else is really complaining about - the subtext that women having jobs outside the home is a cause for this. What Bilge!

My mom ran around with the rich mom's country club set in the 1960s. These women didn't work - and started slurping martinis around 11:00am. If they'd had professional lives, largely denied women in the 1960s, they wouldn't have been bored enough to start drinking so early.

The classic Beatles oops, I mean Rolling Stones song "Mother's Little Helpers" immortalized the "Desperate Housewives" of the late 50s and early 60s - bored women with little more to do than self-medicate because of life choices they were pressured into making.

Meanwhile, seeing one's parents get tipsy or even falling down drunk occasionally isn'tvery damaging. However, children of alcoholics can tell you that helping one's parents to bed at night on a regular basis is shattering - regardless of the parent's genetic makeup...

I have seen my parents drunk occasionally. I know parents who are drunk constantly. These are two VERY different things.

My parents would have parties (and I saw a lot of drunk adults) and we would all go to parties where a lot of people were plastered, or they would come home buzzed.

Parents are human beings. Children learn from their parents. Parents are angry, petty, arrogant hurt, damaged, inspriring, insprired, beautiful, imperfect, strong, weak, etc.

At least these women are there.

I have seen my parents drunk occasionally. I know parents who are drunk constantly. These are two VERY different things.

My parents would have parties (and I saw a lot of drunk adults) and we would all go to parties where a lot of people were plastered, or they would come home buzzed.

Parents are human beings. Children learn from their parents. Parents are angry, petty, arrogant hurt, damaged, inspiring, inspired, beautiful, imperfect, strong, weak, etc.

At least these women are there.

RepubAnon, in my opinion, the subtext is that "stress" is the underlying problem. And work leads to stress.

I'm sorry. I'm the archetypical Angry-Bitch-Feminist, but this article just doesn't make me angry. As far as I can tell, this is a scientific study and they researchers are trying to explain the results.

If science were to show tomorrow that 90% of working women get cancer but only 20% of non-working women get cancer, would the study be something to suppress based on it's anti-feminist subtext?

Maybe I used up all my Angry Juice in the Muslim Beach thread, but I think one line in a report saying that "working -> stress -> alcohol" is neither shocking nor subversive. Frankly, it sounds about right.

I think the point the researchers are trying to make is that there needs to be a non-alcoholic way to alleviate the stress these poor women are under. But that's just IMO.

And, jane, I was a sissy-pants as a child, and in fact still am, but I would have been deeply disturbed seeing drunken behavior from my parents - or any other adult for that matter.

I actually dislike being around drunks to this day. The ones who sob uncontrollably piss me off; the ones who laugh at everything are annoying as hell; and don't get me started on the violent drunks. I knew a guy who was the kindest person you ever met but whenever he got drunk, he inevitably punched some random guy's lights out. I hated being around him when he was drinking, even though everyone else thought it was funny.

Maybe I used up all my Angry Juice in the Muslim Beach thread, but I think one line in a report saying that "working -> stress -> alcohol" is neither shocking nor subversive. Frankly, it sounds about right.

It's not just working. It's working plus doing all the cleaning and cooking plus making ends meet plus raising children and keeping them out of trouble and trying to be there for them and trying to make sure they succeed in life plus everything else mothers all around the world do with almost not help. Even if you take out working, you still have all the rest.

And why hasn't anyone mentioned the "driving while over the limit" stat? No one can say that isn't a bad thing.

Good point, prairielily. I'm not up to date on the drunk driving deaths statistics, but I very much doubt they are very good right now.

The research is crap. You can't find out anything useful from such a selective group as the readers of a particular magazine. And without any sort of context, it's meaningless. There's no notion of how this compares with men, or how this compares with other age groups, or how this compares with other time periods.

Since the article ends with a statistic about problem drinking and female civil servents, it is pretty clearly constructed around the evil of letting women work. The original magazine bit may have been more sympathetic.

Shocking! I had no idea! Why, goodness me, those shameless hussies!

I can assure you that my offspring never have, and never shall, be subjected to the soul-destroying experience of seeing me, their pater, the author of their existence and their model ideal with regard to proper moral comportment, sunken into the disgraceful state of alcoholic intoxication!!! Hmmf!

Well, except, perhaps, a festive tipple or two at Christmas time.