I hope he gets syphilis.

Hold on a second. Slow down, wait up, let me catch my breath.

Okay.

He say's he'd be wary of a vaccine that stopped *AIDS* because he's afraid that we'd lose the 'disinhibition' factor?
.
.
.
FUCK YOU, FINGER!

Unbelievable. And he would be wary of an HIV vaccine stance too? So, numerious deaths are perfectly acceptable as long as we don't "undermine the abstinence-only message"? Unbelievable.

Oh, c'mon, we all know that STDs are a punishment for having sex. Without punishment, there can be no redemption.

Uhh.... either the reasons for abstinence are compelling enough on their own, or they aren't. Why does the right wing have to rely on the fear of pregnancy, HIV and other STIs in order to convince people that abstinence is the way to go? Could it be because abstinence just isn't the right choice for everyone???

I don't know about the ACIP as a whole, but I do know one member of the ACIP, and she is totally normal and would never NOT recommend the HPV vaccine based on the idea that teens (OK girls) would become slutty. She's also very vocal and would definitely state openly that Finger's thinking is BS.

But whether or not the ACIP will add it to the routine recommendations...I don't know. There are a variety of considerations, including the fact that there are already a TON of routinely recommended vaccines, and adding another one puts parents on edge, invites the wrath of the very vocal anti-vaccine crowds, and raises the problem of who's going to pay for it (states are budget-crunched and many insurance providers don't cover vaccines at all).

Shitty reasons not to recommend a vaccine, I know. I hope they do recommend it.

Let's all give Dr. Finger "the finger"

The FDA ruling wasn't a surprise; what ACIP does is the real cliffhanger. For those who are not familiar with ACIP, it is the Advisory Council on Immunization Practice, an arm of the CDC. They issue the annual influenza guidelines, for example. However, regardless of FDA approval, unless ACIP lists the HPV vaccine among its recommended vaccines for the American public, medicaid and medicare will not cover it. Nor will it be routinely recommended by physicians. Not at all. That means that without ACIP approval, many teenagers will not receive the HPV vaccine, above and beyond those whose parents object to the vaccine. That will not help efforts to make invasive cervical cancer a rare disease.

Why should people be forced to take this vaccine? Let parents make the choice for their children....then make sure the children know about the choices their parents made for them!

MD, MBA....????I've always been a little bit suspicious about THAT particular combo.....exactly whose interests do you put first?

sorry for the duplicate posts---my RSS reader was taking forever to reload so I hit the button again

Why should people be forced to take this vaccine? Let parents make the choice for their children....then make sure the children know about the choices their parents made for them!

Dear Leviathan: no one is forced to take a vaccine, ever. However, ALL parents should be strongly encouraged to have their teenage daughters inoculated against HPV. We're not talking about a minor disease here, but a major sexually transmitted virus that can lead to cervical, vulvar, vaginal and other cancers.

MD, MBA....???? I've always been a little bit suspicious about THAT particular combo.....exactly whose interests do you put first?

Here are the members of ACIP
Google away!

CHAIRMAN
ABRAMSON, Jon S., M.D.
Weston M. Kelsey Professor and Chair
Department of Pediatrics
Wake Forest University School of Medicine
Winston-Salem, North Carolina
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/07

EXECUTIVE SECRETARY
PICKERING, Larry K., M.D.
Senior Advisor to the Director
National Immunization Program
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Atlanta, Georgia

MEMBERS

ALLOS, Ban Mishu, M.D.
Assistant Professor
Division of Infectious Diseases
Department of Medicine
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
Nashville, Tennessee
TERM: 10/21/03-06/30/07

BECK, Robert L.
Consumer Representative
Palmyra, VA 22963
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/09

CAMPBELL, Judith, M.D.
Associate Professor of Pediatrics
Baylor College of Medicine
Houston, Texas
TERM: 05/22/03-06/30/06

FINGER, Reginald, M.D., M.P.H.
3470 Flying Horse Road
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80922
TERM: 04/22/03-6/30/06

GILSDORF, Janet R., M.D.
Director, Pediatric Infectious Diseases
Department of Pediatrics and Communicable Diseases
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, Michigan
TERM: 04/25/03-06/30/2006

HULL, Harry, M.D.
State Epidemiologist and Director
Minnesota Department of Health
Minneapolis, MN
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/09

LIEU, Tracy, M.D.
Associate Professor of Ambulatory Care and Prevention
Harvard Pilgrim Health Care and Harvard Medical School
Boston, Massachusetts
TERM: 07/01/04-06/30/08

MARCUSE, Edgar K., M.D., M.P.H.
Associate Medical Director
Children’s Hospital and Regional Medical Center
Seattle, Washington
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/06

MORSE, Dale L., M.D.
Director, Office of Science and Public Health
New York State Department of Health
Albany, New York
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/09

MORITA, Julia, M.D.
Medical Director
Immunization Program
Chicago Department of Public Health
Chicago, Illinois
TERM: 07/01/04-06/30/08

POLAND, Gregory A., M.D.
Professor of Medicine, Infectious Diseases
Molecular Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics, and Pediatrics
Mayo Medical School
Mayo Clinic and Foundation
Rochester, Minnesota
TERM: 4/22/03-6/30/06

STINCHFIELD, Patricia, NP
Director and Pediatric Nurse Practitioner
Infectious Disease/Immunology, Infection Control, and The Children’s Immunization Project
Children’s Hospitals and Clinics
St. Paul, Minnesota
TERM: 06/04/04-06/03/08

TREANOR, John J., M.D.
Associate Professor of Medicine
Infectious Disease Unit
School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Rochester
Rochester, New York
TERM: 07/01/05-06/30/07

WOMEODU, Robin J., M.D.
Medical Director
Center on Health Disparities
University of Tennessee Health Science Center, Memphis
Memphis, Tennessee
TERM: 10/13/03-06/30/07

Leviathan, I think you completely missed the point. Without the recommendation, many parents will not be able to afford the vaccine - even if they want it - because insurance companies will not pay for it.

MD, MBA....???? I've always been a little bit suspicious about THAT particular combo.....exactly whose interests do you put first?

Not sure what you mean by that. Are you insinuating that a business degree would impair one's clinical judgment? A doctor should always put the patient first, and that's not at odds with appropriate business practice to put the customer first, is it?

But back to the issue at hand; do you feel that people shouldn't be taking the HPV vaccine, and if so, why? Obviously you've never known or cared for a woman with advanced cervical or vulvar cancer.

I'm praying that the "christians" follow up and honor life by lobbying the ACIP to make the recommendation to add the vaccine to the approved list. Forgoing that, though, I hope to see a big push from the colleges and universities (education is enlightenment) to make sure that the incoming frosh get the news that this is available, and perhaps pay for it through the university health plans...

I'm praying that the "christians" follow up and honor life by lobbying the ACIP to make the recommendation to add the vaccine to the approved list. Forgoing that, though, I hope to see a big push from the colleges and universities (education is enlightenment) to make sure that the incoming frosh get the news that this is available, and perhaps pay for it through the university health plans...

And I wish that were the case as well. But we're talking about people who, as a group, do not want to see emergency contraception made available to victims of sexual assault, who do not believe that information about condoms should be made available as part of sexual education, who do not believe that a future HIV vaccine should be made widely available...etc. I'm not optimistic. We're living in a theocracy, and to our great peril, fundamentalist views have invaded the realm of science and medicine.

This sort of thing pisses me off. I got HPV from a boyfriend that raped me. I got to endure a fun treatment that involved having a laser fry off infected skin from my vagina. It was intensely painful, and I suffered for weeks. I would have given anything I owned to have had that vaccine. On top of all that, three different nurses practically called me a whore, not knowing that I had been a) raped and b) a virgin prior to my rape. That didn't matter to them - all that mattered was a teenager with an STD must be a slut.

not to undermine the argument for the approval and coverage of the HPV vaccine, but Gardasil covers only HPV subtypes 16 and 18 (which cover about 3/4's of all cervical cancers). Merck's vaccine, if approved, also covers 6 and 11, which are generally responsible for genital warts.

While HPV-related cancers are insanely important, it's ridiculous to say that 80% of women are affected with HPV that predisposes to cancer. And HPV that doesn't produce a disease isn't something that really matters.

That doesn't change the argument that this vaccine absolutely should be approved, but I hate to see so blatant of a misrepresentation of facts on this otherwise heavenly site.

For the record, Finger would also be wary of approving an HIV vaccine, should one become available.

Because, of course, the only way people contract HIV is through sinful extra-marital sex... and this guy's an actual doctor?

What angers me so much about this is stories like EJ's and many many more... getting HPV is about the easiest STD to get. There are dozens of different strands of it, some cause bumps, some cause cancer, some don't do anything. The infection can lay dormant for years, even decades and then WHAM! cervical cancer. No symptoms is why it spreads so easily.

And like EJ, i have HPV, and am sick of ppl thinking I must have slept with half the world. The only reason I know I have it is because I had displacia (weird cells in the cervix)... then it went away on its own and never became cancer, but I was lucky.

And what sucks is that men can be carriers of it, never know it, and pass it along to their girlfriends or wives. If a virgin woman doesn't get vaccinated it means she's depending on whoever she marries to be honest about their sexual past and faithful for the whole marriage, and unfortunately that isn't always the case. It's wishful thinking on the part of the radical right conservatives to think that not giving the vaccine would help promote abstenance. Most people don't know enough about it for it to be a prevention method anyway.

I thought 80% of women got HPV at some point in their lives (actually I thought that # was higher), but a much smaller % got the E5/E6 strain that causes 90% of cervical cancers. Are my facts incorrect?

And while cervical cancer really truly sucks in this country and I fully endorse having it available and promoted to girls and boys, at least we HAVE Pap smears available to virually all women (yes, I really do mean all). I would be sincerely peeved to be an African woman making $1000/yr who developed cervical cancer because the Merck refused to sell it at cost in my country. Sex politics aside, PHARMA politics suck.

I thought 80% of women got HPV at some point in their lives (actually I thought that # was higher), but a much smaller % got the E5/E6 strain that causes 90% of cervical cancers. Are my facts incorrect?

And while cervical cancer really truly sucks in this country and I fully endorse having it available and promoted to girls and boys, at least we HAVE Pap smears available to virually all women (yes, I really do mean all). I would be sincerely peeved to be an African woman making $1000/yr who developed cervical cancer because the Merck refused to sell it at cost in my country. Sex politics aside, PHARMA politics suck.

Sydney,

* Pap smears don't always catch HPV.

* Even if they did, there is no known cure.

* The only treatments available are extremely painful and do nothing to halt resurfacing of the virus.

Pap smears don't catch HPV at all. They catch basal cell abnormalities.

EJ -- Even if you hadn't been raped, or weren't a virgin prior to being raped, and had gotten cervical cancer after sleeping with the entire football team, you still wouldn't be a slut. Hearing things like that makes me sad. Especially when other (presumably) women do this to one another.

Sydney, thank you.

I think I got through to a few nurses by explaining the circumstances of my contraction of HPV - certainly they looked a bit agrieved and guilty for thier unfounded assumptions of me - but I was annoyed that I had to explain at all.

I realize, intellectually, that many women blame the victims of STD so as to console themselves that it won't happen to them. IOW, if only sluts get STD, then they are safe, as they aren't sluts. That said, it is one thing to know why someone is treating you poorly and another thing to forgive them for it. You are very kind.

I'm not really sure what Pap smears 'catch' to find the existence of HPV, but I have read several articles that claim that Pap smears aren't reliable indicators of HPV. I don't know if they are true or not, though.

I don't yet have secondary corroboration but CNN reported that the FDA approved it for "women" aged nine to twenty-six. Let's skip past the Purity Ball creepy of calling a third or fourth grade girl a woman just for the moment, and celebrate the now very real possiblity that they might be protected before they're exposed to the virus!

EJ, I worked for a year with women who had HPV. Any nurse who treated you like that should be FIRED. While that may sound a little strong to some, it is NOT the nurse's job to make judgements because that impedes care of the patient. I wouldn't be surprised if women left that clinic and never returned and maybe were afraid to go back and get the needed treatment.

EJ, while Pap smears cannot tell if a woman has HPV type 16, 18, 31, or whatever, they can suggest the presence of HPV. There is a cellular change called koilocytosis that, while not absolute proof of HPV, is generally considered reliable evidence of HPV. The absence of koilocytosis does not rule out HPV, however.

Koilocytosis used to be considered a benign change that required little or no follow-up. Since the 1989 Bethesda convention, koilocytosis fell under the rubric of "low-grade squamous intraepithelial change" (LSIL) just like mild dysplasia (fka "CIN I"). So it is detectable on a Pap, at least by association.

Are we Finger fucked?
Ann Gets funniest head line for 2006!
(Sorry not meaning to disrespect this important issue. Great pun)

I hope he gets syphilis.

Posted by: Maughta | June 8, 2006 03:11 PM

Ha!

That made me burst out laughing ... Thanks!

Umm- this business of saying its only for women up to age 26... what's with that?

They're using age as a proxy for 'likelihood of having already been exposed'- what if a woman is over 26 and believes she hasn't been exposed. Will they simply refuse her?

Will a woman over 26 be able to get this??

I have some form of HPV, my ex-husband gave it to me. I broke out in warts later (having abstained for some time). I now feel so bad that there is a vaccine but no cure. I don't tell many people either cause they look at me like I deserved it. Especially the nurses where I had to get the Cryofreeze, I was married for christ's sake!! I didn't cheat on him. It was quite the reverse I promise you.

The warts didn't hit me until years later. I haven't been back to the doctor though, I don't want to be condemned for breaking out. I went when i first broke out they said it was herpies.. gah, I am glad it wasn't herpies. But the devestating effect this has had on my self esteem. I don't want this happening to other women. I wouldn't wish this on even Ann coulter (oki um maybe, but still)

I don't have insurance, I don't have anyway to take care of this issue either. How can they just say that it's only for girls up to age 26? What about the boys? What about the women who haven't been exposed regardless of their age?

How can they limit this valuable vaccine?

I also hope that this leads to a cure, it's like a step in the right direction and you can almost see the light at the end of a long tunnel. It definately gives hope.

I can't get over this insanity. For god's sake, it's sex. It's just sex.

This idea that we have to keep people terrified in order to stop them from having sex is utterly insane. This whole idea that there "have to be" consequences or people will have sex is completely ass-backwards.

Sex ALWAYS has consequences! Normal people will have sex regardless of the consequences! It's not society's job to stop them, but to make them aware of the consequences and what actions they can take to prevent the consequences they don't want, so that sex is as enjoyable, productive and rewarding human activity as it can possibly be. Of course we should have this vaccine! It makes sex safer. Therefore, it's objectively a good thing! It should be available to everyone, because everyone should be able to have a safe and enjoyable sex life.

Having sex isn't a crime! Shoplifting, vandalism, jaywalking, speeding, spitting on the street--these are all heinous crimes compared to sex, which is a normal and healthy part of being human. Jaywalking needs to be punished. Sex does not.

Loosely Twisted- is there a planned parenthood in your area? Because they provide annual pap smears at low to no cost for women without insurance. They may also be able to help with freezing off of warts, whatever you need. It may also be a place where you'll feel less judged.

I really hope this vaccine is widely available and affordable. And I hope those parents who are strongly abstinence-only still give it to their daughters. I can't imagine growing up in a home knowing my parents would rather have there be a chance I might get (and possibly die from) a preventable cancer than have pre-marital sex. I know most parents are trying to do what they think is best for their kids, but I honestly don't think I could continue to have a relationship with people who believed that way, even if they did raise me.

Why is it that everyone else on the committee seems to have a position of responsibility with an academic, medical or government organization and Dr. Finger seems to have only a home address? Does it mean that he can't get a job other than to shill for the sexually repressed brownshirt brigades? Or does it mean that he CAN'T get a day job because he's incompetent or unqualified? Has anybody checked his resume?

It means that his only affiliation at the moment is Focus on the Family. He has served on a few other government boards and coalitions (in Kentucky and Colorado) but you’re right, he is not an eminently qualified academic as are the other members.

You said it DMar and theorajones!

I just don't see how you can claim to love your daughter if you are unwilling to give her a vaccine that could prevent horrible pain and possibly death because she might have sex before you think she should.

Here's Dr. Finger's email;
fingerrf@fotf.org
Please sign him up for
all the offensive spam
you can think of, I did!

30 yrs from now when the religious who have denied themselves this vaccine are the only people suffering from cervical cancer. Will Finger be held accountable?

Why is this even an issue and why is there any religious opinion being considered about this ? WTF? I am so tired of the religious ignorance making life threatening decisions which affect the lives of innocent children. When the polio vaccine came out we went to the local churches and stood in line to receive our vaccine and guess what happened? We rarely hear of polio any longer. But the new power grab by the religious will be counterproductive and for once they themselves and their daughters will pay for their ignorance. One generation is all it will take. I wonder which of the well known evangelicals will preach about not receiving the vaccine but who will have their children innoculated?

I hope the religious come to their senses in the next year or so.

Email for ACIP
ACIP@CDC.GOV

snail mail is best but email is good backup.

Also mayoclinic article says this vaccine has benefits even for women already infected with HPV-
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/cervical-cancer-vaccine/WO00120

Makes me angry and a little sad when I realize I share the planet with "people" who believe human sexuality should be punished by horrible disease - of any kind, especially when we have the power to prevent it.

How many millions have died worldwide as a direct result of "abstinance only?" And still they persist.

As a male, I think they ought to vaccinate the boys as well. Typical male chauvinism like making the woman responsible for birth control.

My take on most illnesses, etc. is different than most - that it is primarily related to the emotional mindset. Everyone expresses a certain energetic resonance (body's bio-electric field) that pedisposes them to a particular illness.

Look at similarities of personality in people you may know who have the same illness - chances are are there are predictors of personality that predispose.

The main reason for contracting something like HPV is shame about sexuality or ignorance (I got it from a girlfriend). Therefore in my opinion, education about acceptance of our bodies and our sexuality is especially important.

Unfortunately, most Christians are hypocritical and don't practice what they preach nor do they have a clue what Christ would do. the only way out of darkness (ignorance) is to take one's head out of the sand - Focus on the Family is just another group oppressing women (and men) in the name of God.

I hope (compassionately of course) that Finger gets Aids.

It was easy to go to Focus on the Family and see their stand on STD vacines. - quote:Recognizing the worldwide detriment to individuals and families resulting from HPV, Focus on the Family supports
and encourages the development of safe, effective and ethical vaccines against HPV, as well as other viruses. The use
of these vaccines may prevent many cases of cervical cancer, thus saving the lives of millions of women across the
globe.

Therefore, Focus on the Family supports widespread (universal) availability of HPV vaccines but opposes mandatory
HPV vaccinations for entry to public school. The decision of whether to vaccinate a minor against this or other
sexually transmitted infections should remain with the child’s parent or guardian.

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/abstinence/parents/a0039250.cfm

prying1 - Sounds good, right? The problem with FoF's stance on this is that it can't happen that way. Unfortunately, the vaccine is really expensive and insurance companies (and public health clinics, medicaid, etc.) won't cover the vaccine unless they are required to. So, unless FoF and the other (ahem) "pro-family" groups are willing to start paying for poor children to get vaccinated, it won't be about "parent's choice" it'll be completely up to insurance companies -- and we all know how generous they can be.

A very key fact here is that the ACIP is the advisory board for immunization practices to the CDC (Center For Disease Control. They recommend whether or not a vaccine is approved for the VFC program. The VFC program provides free vaccine for all low income children regardless of insurance. Once a vaccine is VFC approved, all insurance companies are obligated to provide it as well. The issue to moniter here is whether or not this vaccine will become a VFC vaccine. That is the power of the ACIP. Parental choice, school entry requirements etc, are all moot points if this vaccine is not VFC recommended. I have enclosed the CDC link for the VFC program.