"I love feministing.com and always learn from it." Katha Pollitt, The Nation
"Many people need a morning "fix." For some, it's coffee. For others, it's "SportsCenter." For me, it's Feministing.com." Katie Stone, The Denver Post
"Feminism is fun again! Every bit as edifying as your women's studies books from college, but with a biting sense of humor that keeps things punchy, not preachy." Marie Claire, December 2006
WOW, the spoof site is hilarious. That site -- through sarcasm -- makes a lot of the points I've been trying to make here. The very old-fashioned "men-are-the-enemy-and-women-are-always-victimized-and-always -right" that is mostly portrayed here is just silly and embarrassing.
If you hate men just say it. Be a woman and come clean. And the few principles on here that actually date and/or marry men are so constricted by their silly politics that they always saddle themselves with weak feminine-men. Could the fact that you pick these weak-sister type of "men" possibly the reason you hate men so much?
Nah... I'll stay here so I can potentially save you. This embarrassing brand of comfortable-shoes-we-hate-men 1960's feminism practiced here sets the real movement back 40 years.
Real feminists don't hate men. Real feminists don't blame everything on men. Real feminists realize that women do not have to be lockstep on politics to be feminists.
And real feminists aren't afraid of real men like so many of the principles on here are. I really question the credentials of women who claim to be "feminists" but then are so terrified of men that they either become "political" lesbians or hook up with "girly" men (which seems to be the most common practice here). Silly girls, the key is to find strong men who RESPECT women, not weaklings who fear them and want to be nagged and ordered into shape.
Wow, CK--I wasn't aware that you were acquainted with any of the editors' significant others. But you’re right, there’s no way a “real man” would date a feminist. In fact, the only way I can be with my little girly man boyfriend is to strap on a huge one. There--feel better now?
Wow, nothing like reading the perpetual whining of men who don't like what women have to say!
Don't you know, Jessica, you're supposed to get a man to sign off before you can express any opinions?
And now we get the pleasure of ColleenKelly, who seems to think that "real feminists" will only hook up with real he-men. I think that measuring a woman's worth based on the biceps or alleged penis size of her boyfriend or husband is hysterical! Colleen, the great white huntress, proves her womanhood by bagging mister macho!
Then again, Colleen, if your he-men are so tough, why do they need you to come here defending them?
The insecurities revealed in this .org "parody" -- and its defender here -- put it all in perspective.
And I don't know any lesbians who hate men, CK. The only women I know who hate men are straight, non-feminist women. They hate men because they have to be subservient to them.
I'm not here to defend men, I'm here to save you silly little spoiled white girls from yourselves. Feminism is about strength NOT weakness. Choosing weak sissy-boys for your "significan others" shows your weakness NOT your strength.
We are EQUAL to men, not so intimidated by them we only associate with wimpy boys because real men scare us.
Feminism has gone from "We are strong and we want nothing special only equality" to "Oh gee, its such a big bad world and men are so awful so we want all sorts of extra protection and special treatment for women because we are just too weak and inferior to stand on our own merit. Please, please protect us, we ARE just weak little women afterall."
The principles on here and most who post are not feminists, they are middle-class scared little white girls pretending to be grown up and playing "feminist".
Stop begging and nagging for special treatment. Be WOMEN and go make it in the world just like men have to.
Do you proudly declare that men are “capable of making their own decisions”… but you love to heap sneering contempt on those unthinking bimbos who decide to go on diets, be pro-life, have a rhinoplasty, vote Republican, get married, or who decide to do anything that masculists say men shouldn't do?
This particularly struck me as a wonderful quote now that it's been regendered.
This embarrassing brand of comfortable-shoes-we-hate-men 1960's feminism . . .
As a militant comfortable-shoes-wearer, I am highly offended by the implication that my healthy feet indicate a hatred of men. My Birkenstock clogs and I demand an apology.
That regendering software is one of the coolest things I've seen in a long, long time.
Regarding the 'parody' site--first impression is that somebody has waaaaay too much time on their hands, but not enough spare time to do anything other than a cursory parody, really. I'm all for laughing at oneself, but make it more clever than "I got raped at Starbucks", please.
As far as CK goes, anytime anybody spends most of their time defnining what a 'real' feminist is, that's a Big Red Flag that they don't really get it. What would convince CK that she was wrong, ever? Nothin, because her positions are vacuous. What ever happened to the idea of reasoned discussion, CK?
CK, it is probably best that you return to fucking your hairy mountain man so we can happily discuss our political lesbianism and our hatred of men without further interference.
PS Real feminists don't need to constantly refer to their relationships with men to validate themselves.
Congrats on being spoofed. It means you're on to something here at this blog (but I knew that already).
And CK you're making the same arguments that anti-feminist men and women were making during the second-wave feminist movement of the 60's.
Nice of you to ride on the wave they created and then dismiss feminist work at the same time. I hope you remember that when you vote or need contraception or crisis counselling or get to keep your job when you get pregnant.
This site frustrates me because it shows me that all my efforts to go out and teach people what real feminism is about are not having the earth shaking effects I was hoping for... *sigh*
And now for saving CK from her misperceptions.
CK:
You are partly right; real feminist don't hate men and don't blame them for everything. There is a huge difference with blaming the system and blaming the individual. I don't blame my fiance for oppressing me or anyone else; I blame the system of patriarchy.
Speaking of which...
Refering to a certain type of guy as being "girly" is in and of itself sexist when you act as though there is something wrong with femininity. I believe that particular form of misogyny/sexism is too commonly accepted. Women and men should both be allowed to act in whatever way they feel comfortable on the feminine/masculine spectrum without fear of being judged "too manish or too girly". I play video games and knit; my fiance writes poetry and does judo. Does that make him a fake man?It's good to have options. They make us human. I don't want a man that's nothing but brutish aggressive hostility in human form raising my children. People need balance.
This site frustrates me because it shows me that all my efforts to go out and teach people what real feminism is about are not having the earth shaking effects I was hoping for... *sigh*
I am moved to tears. I'm sorry I have opinions! Pretty damn inconsiderate of me, I admit.
Stop the silly nonsense. I am a career homicide detective and at the beginning of my career (1974) I was the second female patrol officer in the Chicago PD's history. I was a young and strident and foolish feminist then without benefit of real life experience or even much common sense.
I was on the job about 15 days before I realized that a woman -- unless she is extremely mannish and very unusually strong -- had absolutely no business being a patrol officer. Physical strenght is often called upon and I had my ass kicked often by even small men.
The worst part was that in several cases male officers were injured because they had to come to my rescue. An average build male in my position could have easily held his own while I was often hurt, in danger and in need of rescue.
The most frustrating part was I always wanted to be a detective. Before "radical feminist" demands were affected females in the PD could be trained to be detectives directly (detective work rarey if ever requires the kind of physical strength and command a patrol officer requires on the street). But after the feminists got ahold of things females had to follow the same track as men.
It has been extremely sad over the years to see females that would have made great commanders and/or detectives drop out in the initial patrol stage of their career because they were tired of getting their ass kicked or seeing male officers get hurt rescuing them.
Then came the famous incident in 1993 when it was revealed in Philadelphia that all big city police departments (mine in Chicago included)had purchased software that tracked where their female and male officers were so that only male officers were sent into dangerous situations. In other words, male officers -- receiving the same pay and benefits as we female officers -- were steered towards danger while females were protected. Despite some complaints (interestingly male officers never grumbled or said a word) the software has been left in place.
My point being: radical feminism relies on the false premise that there is no difference between men and women. NONE! What nonsense! Even ol' Gloria Steinem in her famous 1979 NYU debate with William F. Buckley, Jr. when asked if she was about to be raped did she want a female cop or a male cop to be the first officer on the scene. She initially said, "just a good officer of either gender". When the predomiantly female and supportive audience groaned and laughed in derisive disbelief she said, "Okay, okay... I'd want the biggest, meanest male cop to be there first and beat the guy's ass!".
I've been around the women's movement since the beginning and it's always had its silly radical element. The (obviously very young) women running this site think they sound worldly and angry and well... feminist. Instead they come off cartoonish. They wear their feminism the way a 12 yr old walking down the street smokes a cigarette thinking that passersby think he looks cool and older, when instead they just look foolish and as if they are seeking to look cool and older. The women running this site -- like the 12 yr old smoker -- can be clearly assessed from an outside view. They are spoiled middle class white girls who've never had a problem in their life but really, really think it's cool to act all feminist and as if murdering babies is really, really a great thing to do.
Feminism, in its basis is a very serious matter and abortion is a very sad -- but sometimes necessary procedure. Any woman who ever had one has been saddened and knew quite well she was killing her baby (not just cells, or a fetus or any of the other words people attempt to utilize to attempt to hide what they've done).
The "girly men" comment was not only a response to some of the pictures of their "men" they've shown but also what they've written and have written. As a woman and a feminist there are things I would never accept out of a male partner. These silly mostly fake feminists repeatedly disrespect life and men and no real man would put up with it. That's how I know their men are "girly" men. Unless they are just pussy opportunists.
A term I learned from feminists at abortion protests back in the early 80's while I was still a patrol officer. I'd be assigned to protect an abortion clinic (with other officers) and basically our job was to keep the two sides apart. Every once in a while they'd brawl. Whenever they'd brawl the men on the pro-abortion side would sometimes change sides and fight with the anti-abortionists or run and just stay out of the brawl.
The woman who ran the clinic and was really a wonderful person would often -- when things got bad -- come out to be on the side of the pro-abortionists. When I pointed out to her this bizarreness where these males would run once there was trouble she said, "Oh, their just pussy opportunists."
I, of course, said, "HUH? What's that". She said, "Well, we know they either don't care about the issue or are actually opposed to us but until they run its nice having some male faces on our side. We call them 'pussy opportunists' because the only reason they come is they think feminist women are easy lays."
The fake feminists on this site reveal themselves constantly. This young girl that posts on this site and just got married and constantly rails against "patriarchy" posted some wedding pictures and they are very traditional white dress "every little girls dream wedding" type photos. Nothing wrong with that, but stop pretending to hate men and the "patriarchy" (whatever that is!).
Feminism is about equal rights and opportunity, that's all! The goofy fake feminists with their fake hate need to grow up.
I'm with Steph on this one. I would count it as a badge of pride for someone or a group of people to bother and:
* Reserve a domain name
* Set up some web-publishing software
* Get one or more persons to regular bleed words,
create JPEGs, and otherwise produce content
on a regular or semi-regular basis
-- all as part of some smear campaign.
Granted, this list of tasks isn't all that hard to do, or expensive, but of all the things to do in this world...
I can't help but remember Gandhi's famous saying: "(1) First they ignore you. (2) Then they laugh at you. (3) Then they fight you. (4) Then you win."
First of all you insensitive bastard how dare you quote Ghandi, he's a MAN! What's wrong with you? Don't you know that all MEN are evil and all part of the (cue scary conspiracy indicating music now)PATRIARCHY?!
Just because someone was great at something doesn't mean EVERYTHING they say is correct (remember, Ghandi once assured the wes on Mao Tse Tungs behalf that Mao was NOT a communist and would have free and open elections within 90 days... um that was in 1948... we're uh... still er ... waiting for the elections). Ghandi was wrong about "(1) First they ignore you. (2) Then they laugh at you. (3) Then they fight you. (4) Then you win." Sometimes, as in this case THEY'RE JUST LAUGHING AT YOU!
The problem with the spoof site is it could never be as funny and embarrassingly self-indulgent as this one. Rich little suburban white girls without a care in the world posting on the computers that daddy bought them during the day hoping a really cute boy calls them and takes them out on a date. Sure, the boy will get fucked for sure... afterall... she's a feminist!
Hey CK, you might want to calm down, you're blowing your female cover.
I certainly don't feel the need to defend myself against your bizarre tirades, but before you start to make assumptions about our respective backgrounds, you should really do your homework.
Sorry, Colleen, not every woman who's had an abortion is saddened by it. Because that would be weird, don't you think - everyone reacting to an event in exactly the same way?
I forgot to say, congrats on getting parodied. Next to getting frothy-mouthed trolls in your comments, it just goes to show you've arrived! Maybe Limbaugh will mention your Feminazi ways soon, think of the traffic you'd get then....
No, normal well-adjusted people often react to happenings almost exactly the same way. Have you noticed many normal well-adjusted people laughing at films of holocaust victims being bulldozed into graves?
An abortion irrefutably ends a life. It kills a baby. Now people seem to be able to justify it ("but if I have this baby I'll get stretch marks and then how will I land a cute guy") but even ardent feminists gave up on the silly ol' abortion-is-okay argument that tried to claim that an abortion doesn't kill a baby, "its just a clump of cells".
Have you ever spent time with a woman whose had a very early term miscarriage? Do you yell at her for being sad? Do you deride her sense of loss? Do you say, "Oh cut it out, you haven't lost anything, it was just a clump of cells."
A good friend of mine, an ardent feminist and official in my union was once a fervent abortion activist. She met a good man, settled down and continued her important active feminism. They became pregnant and were thrilled. Very, very early in the term -- not long after they learned they were pregnant -- she had a miscarriage and was greatly saddened. She had just told her mom of the pregnancy the day before. After time spent in sadness with her husband she called her mom and said, "Mom, I lost my baby" and cried and sobbed.
Later, that night she had an epiphany. She had spent 15 years fighting for abortion rights and using the old "clump of cells" argument and realized that she told her mom that she had "lost" her "baby". Since that day she has worked just as hard for women's causes, but she is very, very anti-abortion. She calls it the big lie! She knew even at her early stage, a BABY had been lost.
Since I've quoted Gloria Steinem in a previous post I might as well again. Again, in her famous 1979 abortion debate with conservative writer William F. Buckley, Jr. at NYU in front of a very feminist mostly female audience Gloria foolishly made the old "clump of cells" argument.
Buckley said, "Oh, then its not a baby, just a clump of cells??" Steinem not sensing the trap said, "Yes, absolutely" which allowed Buckley to immediately retort: "Well if its not a baby, then why kill it?"
In one of the most embarrassing moments for feminism ever Steinem gasped noticeably, smiled... grimaced... made kind of a gutteral sound and stammered... and finally said as her supportive audience squirmed in discomfort at seeing their argument destroyed "Uh... well then what if the mother uh uh uh has a health problem, what do you choose, the baby or the mom"
Look, some can justify killing an unborn baby, but no one sane really believes its "not a baby". It's a baby, that's why their killing it. Because they don't want a BABY!
Collen, do you have a funeral every month? I mean, the way you talk, I assume you're one of the "good women" providing sex for men. So every period represents a death, right?
I bet if you missed your period, you'd run right out and get a birth certificate for the "baby," right?
For a self-proclaimed feminist, how cavelierly you dismiss the woman's role in pregnancy. I guess a woman is just a bus, right?
Oh my.
I note that for all your gripes about feministing, you don't link to any site of your own. Why is that? Could it be that you don't practice what you preach? Why don't you start up your own site, instead of practicing the very whining you whine about here?
(Sorry Jessica, I can't help myself. I'll shut up now.)
Sounds to me like your parents need to sit down with you next year when you turn 11 and have THAT talk with you, you sure don't understand sex or the female body very well.
Did you think your period was your body getting rid of impregnanted eggs? It isn't. Only eggs that haven't been impregnated are removed during your period. You don't have a period when you are pregnant because an egg is impregnated and the body won't remove it thus killing the baby.
Get some sex ed. in junior high, it'll all get clearer to you!
CK's facade is slipping. Anyday now he'll she'll reveal who she really is.
Anyway, I thought the site was stupid fun until I saw the racist slap at my boyfriend. Seeing as how he really has nothing to do with this, that was a low, low blow.
Every fertilized egg implants successfully? Wow, that turns decades of clinical data upside down. I hereby nominate CK for a Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine.
Abortion and miscarriages are ambiguous events that women do NOT react to uniformly, but it's slick of you to try to define normalcy as having only one emotional reaction to those events. I've seen friends & relatives through abortions and miscarriages, and have been struck by the difference of their reactions, depending on their circumstances. CK has plenty of feminist just-so stories, though--curious.
CK, it seems you forgot that according to MARR (misogynists against reproductive rights) life supposedly begins at conception. That means you're biology lesson is, um, wrong?
Perhaps you were picketing Planned Parenthood the day in class when we learned that not all fertilized eggs actually implant successfully in the uterus. But don't let facts get in the way of your rants. It's all very entertaining. It's like a parody of a real debate right here on the real site.
I came here by way of Pandagon and I'm amazed. The parody site is... well, they went to all the trouble of setting it up and then got slap-dash and threw in every lazy cliche they could think of. What really interests me is ColleenKelly.
I think the difference between "baby" and "bunch of cells" as terms for a fetus is mostly a matter of whether the woman carrying it actively wants it or not. The thing currently kicking hell out of my belly is quite definitely a baby, and if I lost it I would be devastated, but the things that grow inside other women can be mere fetuses without overturning my value system.
As regards wimpy/girly/whatever kind of men outspoken feminists are supposed to prefer, I have no patience with my now-ex (baby's father) precisely because he's such a spineless wimp. He fits exactly the profile of what the parody guys would have us believe a feminist does: whining and making himself out to be the victim at all times. If I was interested in complete domination, he'd be perfect, but I like men who can at least take charge of their own affairs to some extent, thank-you-very-much.
I only skimmed it, so I missed the racist comments about Amanda's boyfriend, but I did catch the flaming hatred towards college educated middle class white women.
College-educated seems to be a major trigger for these guys, and CK seems to be quite proud of 'her' working-class background herself, in a defensive sort of way. Maybe CK & The Parody Men would relax a little if they'd wander around the blogrolls a bit and find the ones made by non-college grads or working single moms and other sundry non "silly little spoiled white girls." They might calm down once they realize that no one here is saying "non-degreed = moron" or "blue-collar worker = icky"
Woah, these guys have obviously got WAY too much time on their hands ... and some real issues with diversity of opinion, and women with .. well, thoughts, and race, and ... damn, pick a diversity ...
I have no idea where the "racist" nonsense comes from, I guess they were so embarrassed at being outed as full of crap that they tried to come up with something.
Secondly, where does this "college educated" nonsense come from. I have a Bachelor's Degree from Northwestern University here on the good ol' north shore of Chicago. This site's problems have nothing to do with education or race. Their problems range from laziness to bullshitting. Rich girls living off of daddy until Mr. Right comes along so they can switch men to live off of hardly makes them feminists.
This sites feminists exist basically within the parameters of two basic complaints. They are upset that someone (the gov't? Daddy? Anyone?) hasn't come along and just given them everything they want without them working for it is in their view a result of "PATRIARCHY". It isn't "patriarchy" that is your problem young girls... its "laziness". You think just because you are women and daddy has taken care of you until now and you haven't achieved anything (though you haven't tried) means you are a victim of sexism. NOOOO,it means you are a victim of laziness!
Secondly, you'll find its a lot easier to learn about and use birth control and possibly consider NOT spreading your legs for every guy who offers to split a beer with you while mumbling, "Oh...yeah...uh... I'm a feminist, too" then it is running out for an abortion every couple of months.
You little women aren't feminists, you are a feminist's nightmare of hyporcrisy and just plain ol' missing the point!
"Secondly, you'll find its a lot easier to learn about and use birth control and possibly consider NOT spreading your legs for every guy who offers to split a beer with you while mumbling, "Oh...yeah...uh... I'm a feminist, too" then it is running out for an abortion every couple of months."
Yeah, because that happens all the damn time.
So, apparently I'm kinda a girly-man, and thus I deserve nothing but scorn, and probably I should be beaten up a few times to make me tougher.
I didn't realise that real feminism was about yelling at people who don't fit traditional gender roles. You learn something everyday.
CK, your ability to pretend you're a woman and not one of the men involved in this is fading quickly. And while you and your buddies hide behind score for white women, as if that made you not racist somehow, taking potshots at my boyfriend, who has nothing to do with this, is completely out of line.
You are just a flat out LIAR. I never made any racial comments towards your boyfriend or any other person. My husband of 24 years is African-American. I'd be a pretty confused racist!
I think what you are confusing is my pointing out that the only men who'd be with you silly FAKE feminists who sit around and whine all day about "Patriarchy" and other such silly, mentally ill conspiracy theories (maybe that's what men are doing when they say they are at ball games: they're REALLY at secret PATRIARCHY meetings planning the next way the girls at Feministing are gonna get screwed out of something they never worked for anyway).
Any man that'd be with a silly, whining, nagging, bitching ("oh woe is me, those evil men have screwed up my life again") fake feminist like you and the other girls is either so physically unattractive that he figures because fake feminists give out their pussies like gum in a barbershop he has no choice but to fake support or he's just a girly man looking for you to take on the "male" role. Is that what you thought was racist?
I didn't realise that real feminism was about yelling at people who don't fit traditional gender roles. You learn something everyday.
Christopher, you do indeed learn something everyday. I hope you'll spend more time around MRAs. Then you will learn much more about feminist lies.
So, apparently I'm kinda a girly-man, and thus I deserve nothing but scorn, and probably I should be beaten up a few times to make me tougher.
Hey, you're a man. You're a guy. There's no good reason to berate yourself, no matter what the feminist man-haters tell you. Even so, if you want to toughen up, e-mail me and maybe we can put the gloves on sometime. You might show me a thing or two about boxing also.
CK, shoo. Seriously, go find your own corner of the internet where you are wanted and contribute to their rants.
Go away.
I don't care if she's a guy or a girl, it's superflurous. She's a jackass.
Feminist does not equal slut. Women still like sex. Not all women have regrets after an abortion. Pregnancy is a process. No one is complaining about the patriarchy been the cause of all ills, and no one's mad that everything hasn't just handed to us girls. Look around you: everyone that blogs or blogments has at least one job, and a lot of them are moms (which is a job, just not as well paid). Feminists aren't just going from daddy to husband, that's what women did BEFORE feminism. And their bfs and husbands are more manly than any boner that has no respect for women.
Of course not all women have regrets about abortion. Motherhood and human life means nothing to many of them. After all, that is what abortion is, the termination of a human life in the womb. That is why 50 million babies have been killed, making the abortion holocaust worse than the Nazi holocaust, and making some inclined to mouth without any irony whatsoever terms like, 'FemiNazi.'
The very presence of you spoiled white girls on the web protesting against imaginary enemies is laughable, when the truth is you are the most priveleged group of human beings ever to walk the Earth. No two ways about it. You would not know hardship if it jumped at you in a dark alley. You are spoiled middle class brats who have discovered the perfect racket to extort free money and careers, for you lack all other talent and ability other than as pristesses in the cult of entitlement/complaint, feminism.
I disagree with CK in one respect, that these spoiled white girls give feminism a bad name. They give it an appropriate name and they are quite fitting standard bearers for the cult. "It's all someone else's fault" should be your slogan. It is sad, pathetic, and deep down many of you know it, which is why you take a deep breath and project extra hard whenever someone makes you look at the truth unembellished.
You are the most priveleged human beings on Earth, all on the backs of men. No denying it; men created the system, you are sucking its life blood, and it will soon collapse. Socialism of this kind is not sustainable, especially with a declining birth rate (which we have as a result of the destruction of marriage, a stated aim of feminists.) Men are dropping out of the system, not marrying, and the system will collapse; no more feminism, no more free handouts, no more government apparatus with money enough to pander to your whims for fear of political pressure from your lobby.
The shit will hit the fan, ladies and gentladies, and it will happen in your life time. Be prepared, I suggest.
Damn, CK. I said you friends were racist on their cute little site. Pardon me though, if I am incredulous about the husband thing, since the female thing is still giving me doubts.
Damn, CK. I said you friends were racist on their cute little site. Pardon me though, if I am incredulous about the husband thing, since the female thing is still giving me doubts.
I've been to the realfeministing site--feministing.org--and there's nothing racist there. Even though I don't believe that you have a boyfriend, if you did, to refer to him as "Latino" in a purely factual statement is not racist. I know that you little white-girl princesses find it chic to throw around words like "racist" and "sexist," but it's just a game you play from your sheltered ivory tower of privilege.
Now, run along little Amanda, and go play with your imaginary boyfriend.
'CK, it seems you forgot that according to MARR (misogynists against reproductive rights) life supposedly begins at conception. That means you're biology lesson is, um, wrong?'
Huh? You asked Colleen if she had a funeral every month for her period. She answered that it is unfertilized eggs that are passed in a period (there is no implantation of a zygote, so your period occurs).
And you post that? There is no 'conception' with a period...
Damn, I had my hopes up with this parody site - but alas. "Sadly, Yes!" at least had a sort of filthy child-smearing-feces-on-the-wall glee to it. This, though - this is _pathetic_. Calling it a parody site is annoying - "parody" connotates humor to me, and there's not really any there, just biluous hatred sloppily framed as hating feminists, men who agree with feminists, and anyone with a college education.
I'm counting ColleenKelly and the MRA trolls here as part of the parody. They're close enough.
Just cuz *you* make a shitty cop doesn't mean that ALL women would make shitty cops. In fact, not all men would make great cops either. I would rather have a female black belt in karate come to my rescue than Stephen Hawking or Paule Shore. And there are shades of feminism, some adhering to the belief that there are minimal differences between men and women, and others believing that there are a wide range of differences but that they shouldn't matter in the bigger picture. I don't think men and women are the same because I don't think people in general are the same. Having a vagina doesn't make you a bad cop the same way having a penis doesn't make you good at math. I teach self defense and regularly spar with men twice my size. I'm 5'6 and 110lbs but I can take down my 6'7 220lbs partner. There's more to confrontation than size so don't blame your failure on your pussy.
Next.
Repeat: I'm not white. I don't find that this site speaks only to the white middle class female. They deal with issues of race and gender. Oh, and I also haven't had a "perfect" life (jealous of the bloggers'lives are you?). I've survived poverty and abusive parents/partner before I got into self defense and feminism. This "crap" saved my life by showing me that I'm not a punching bag, so show a little respect.
Next: Did I mention abortion? Nope? Moving on.
Next: "girly men". Thanks again for showing your level of sexism. You make a rotten feminist if you can't allow for equality between the sexes. If a man wants to write poetry, sing opera, or dance ballet who are you to judge his life choices? Especially since you decided you wanted to break the mold and be a cop. Men should have the same rights as women to pick what they do with their lives and your degradation of them for being "girly" is callous and sexist. Gender roles are societal, which is why they aren't universal (do some work in anthropology and you'll see that). In the middle east men grieve by weeping openly at funerals. Would you call the men of Iraq girly?
Next: None of these women are "fake feminists" just because you are too judgemental and close minded to accept them. The definition of feminism is belief in the equality of women and men and there is nothing that says that you can't believe in equality and still adhere to traditions *if* you make the choice to do so. White wedding or not, motherhood or not, stay at home or have a career, marry or don't, sex it up or don't. Feminism supports the ability of the individual (male and female) to choose what's in their own best interest.
Next: "This site's problems have nothing to do with education or race." If that's the case, why do you keep harping on how the women on this site are all spoiled middle class college educated white females? Sex/race/class don't give you a lock on the truth pertaining to that group. I've known men who were better feminists than I am. I've been a better black activist than some of my black friends.
Next: Daddy didn't give me squat. I moved out when I was 16 to escape Daddy and I've been living on my own ever since. I have worked as many as 3 jobs while taking fulltime classes because I refuse to be dependent on anyone. Don't call me lazy, you don't know me. And patriarchy is the system that let my dad break my jaw when I was 10 and not spend anytime in jail. The cops said "He's just a father disciplining his child." That is patriarchy. I don't blame individuals for it, I blame the system that allows for that sort of thing to happen to children. I don't think any one should have to live through what I did. Even though I survived (and thrived), the system that supports violence, rape, and restrictions based on the presence or absence of a vagina needs to be dismantled. I'm changing the system to protect people (men and women) from what should not be allowed to continue. I guess that means that I love men more than you because I love them enough to let them be who they want to be instead of forcing my views down their throat like some sort of over controlling parent making their son go to law school when he really wants to be an architech.
mediagirl:
I *think* you misunderstood my first post. I meant that the site of the origninal post frustrated me. The .org is frustrating, not the .com
“….disagree with CK in one respect, that these spoiled white girls give feminism a bad name. They give it an appropriate name and they are quite fitting standard bearers for the cult.”
Hello- we’re not all white! I happen to be African-American. Can you stereotype feminist bloggers anymore? Way to be anti-feminist by not including other communities!
But really, that’s beside the point. Y’all are just unintelligent. There is really nothing else to say. You come on a feminist website and you spit out tired clichés, you insult people’s partners, and you make backhanded racist and sexist comments. All under the guise of being “real” feminists. CK & co., you’re just not smart, college degrees or no college degrees. But even worse, you’re not even FUNNY. You’re completely incapable of delivering anything original. If you’re going to provide us with entertainment, at least be creative about it! Even your use of sarcasm (something most people can do) is just absolutely horrendous. I demand humor! Go visit Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter- perhaps they can give you some tips.
I love it when very wounded men try to impersonate women to post about feminism. They don't realize how very transparent they are.
And by the way guys, er, I mean CK et al, it's true. Lesbians don't hate men. Sorry to bruise your fantasy, but we don't really think about men much. We have male friends, fathers, sons and brothers whom we love dearly. We even sometimes have crushes on and attractions to men and sometimes even have sex with men.
What's so hard for the walking wounded men to understand is that lesbians are attracted to women because women are so very attractive and so very hot. It's very painful for some men to learn that lesbianism isn't in reaction to them and has nothing to do with them. They want to be in there somewhere, but sorry guys. It really is all about the girls.
Amanda says "taking potshots at my boyfriend, who has nothing to do with this, is completely out of line."
Maybe you should ban CK for daring to be out of line with you the way you banned me from Pandagon. After all, if you can't win an argument, you should just ban them , right?
BTW, I guess i was right about that whole london thing, wasn't I? I don't really expect an apology from you, though. That would take class and honor. I noticed you deleted that whole post from your archives. Getting rid of the evidence, huh?
Are you going to get me banned from feministing now?
I came here from Pandagon, and all I have to say is that I am so grateful to ColleenKelly for telling us all about this new technology out there on the internet that lets you see such personal things about people you've never met and wouldn't recognize if you saw them on the street. I am so impressed. ColleenKelly, you must tell me what kind of computer, browser and internet connection you are using. I really need try this out for myself. And then perhaps I can return the favor, and spend an almost disturbing amount of time writing up lengthy, spittle-covered diatribes that list each of your own failings. It's helped me so much, I'm positive you could benefit as well.
Fridgehead: Let it go already, there's nothing more pathetic than someone who focuses so much on something that shouldn't affect you a great deal
Real men just walk away and try to be the bigger man, they don't jump up and down flinging their crap hither and yon in an attempt to get people to pay attention to them. Note that you are being lectured on masculinity by a woman (and worse: you seem to need it) and also note that football hooligans didn't smash up mosques all over london town, which is what you got banned for sayiing on 7/7, so STFU and grow some 'nad hair, you pathetic manchild.
I've been to the real feministing site--feministing.org--and there's nothing racist there. Even though I don't believe that you have a boyfriend, if you did, to refer to him as "Latino" in a purely factual statement is not racist.
Oh again, grow the hell up for ffs, you know and I know and anyone with half a brain knows that the only point in saying someone's SI is "latino" is to try to shame them by pointing out that they are in a *GASP* Interracial relationship! (you did notice that MAanda wight
There is no non-racist rason for pointing out that her SI is Latino, it is not relevant to any discussion that's going on right here and right now, so cut the childish pre-school "well I was only saying it to be factually accurate" BS, You know Exactly WHY you brought up her latino SI, be a man and admit it or just drop the issue if you don't like being called names you hairless balled moron.
And the rest of you! Why are you so incredibly weak and pathetic and so deeply insecure just being men that you have to get your jollies trying (and even more pathetically, failing) to intimidate a bunch of people belonging to a gender you love to tell yourselves are so inferior to your own?
If you think your so great because of your gender then act like it! Why is that such a hard thing for you to do? You must realise how pathetic an ego that's built on tearing other people down is and looks?
You silly feminist wannabe's embarrass me with your attempts at glibness that only fail and accentuate the foolishness of your positions.
I wasn't a "shitty" cop, I was just female. Someone 5' 5" and 108 pounds can have all the training in the world but still can't handle a 6' 180 pound man. In almost all patrol situations female officers at best are just in the way and in many circumstances just make situations worse by giving the male cops more work and more to worry about. A group of cops going into a bar fight have to worry about breaking up the fight and making arrests. When there are female officers there (which NEVER happens anymore because of software that would steer the female officers away or assign them to traffic control)the male cops now have to worry not only about breaking up the fight and making arrests but also about protecting the female officers.
Because of differences in size and strength I was -- as 99.99% of women are - an extremely ineffective patrol officer. But, I am a great detective. Physical strength does not come into it and gender has no effect.
Having laws that force employers to hire women into positions where male strength gives them a wide advantage is just silly. It just costs us all a fortune (female patrol officers nationwide are hurt on the job 7 more times than males and spend 4.2 times more time on injury/disability pay). Among detectives those numbers are the same for men and women.
Laws that don't acknowledge the differences between men and women are silly, illogical and only hurt real feminists by making them appear just plain old stupid. We could pass a law that says horse-racing discriminates against women by not letting them put on a saddle and compete with the horses. But the horses would always win and no law would make horses and women "equal" in speed.
Back when I was young we came on demanding just the right to equally compete with men for work. We said we didn't want any special treatment, just an equal shot. Well, it turns out we lied. Once we got the equal shot we started demanding all sorts of special treatment: "Ewww, don't tell a dirty joke that I might overhear (if I try really hard)." "Oh no, those physical requirements are too hard -- I understand that they are necessary to protect the public -- but lower them anyway." "I know I said I wanted a job but now I want time off -- with pay -- for when I CHOOSE to have a baby, in fact, you know what... I think I might take off years to raise the children I CHOOSE to have but when I return I want my pay and benefits to be the same as if I was actually here all those years."
When I was first a young patrol officer the grooming requirements were the same for male and female officers. Short hair and no jewelry. These are very sensible rules for patrol officers. Bad guys grab your hair during altercations if its long enough to grab and the same with jewelry such as loop earrings, necklaces, etc.
The second year I was an officer and our female officers had soared to only 1 percent of the police force one of our female officers got NOW to file a lawsuit allowing us (female officers ONLY) to have any length hair we wanted and to wear any jewelry we wanted. Sigh... just another reason why in certain jobs -- such as patrol officer -- women know they aren't really real cops, and the male cops know it too.
Sorry, girls, radical feminism is bullshit. There are differences between men and women and social policy that doesn't recognize it is foolish and damaging. And its exactly why most people -- especially women -- reject feminism.
I bet I know why you sucked at your job as a cop. It wasn't because you were a 'woman'. It's because you spend all goddamn day on the internet engaging in flamewars. Seriously, a life can be yours for the low cost of turning off your computer and stepping out your front door.
Because I'm actually at work right now. I'm at work right now but soon I will go home and mooch off my husband, who is currently at home, cleaning our apartment and making dinner plans for tonight. But whatever - I have a vagina, therefore I am a leech. But if it's not my husband I leech off of, it's my dad, right? Right.
Ok, CK, I'll use smaller words to make sure you understand... I mean 'I'll use smaller words so that you get it'
I am 5'6 and 110 lbs. I spar daily with men. Those men are between 6' and 6'7 and weigh between 170 and 230 lbs. I can effectively take on up to 4 men at one time (170x4=680 lbs of flesh vs 110lbs and I still win). My pussy doesn't get in the way of being a self defense instructor or of winning martial arts tournaments. The best part is that I'm not some body building phenom. I have a very petite build; I'm much smaller than WAY more than .01% of the female population. So, if I can do what I do then so can hundreds of thousands of other women. Teaching women how to do this is my job.
Don't blame your vagina for your own failure.
I guess you must be jealous that I'd make a better cop than you... If you want I could give you some lessons. I'd even do it pro bono.
As for the rest of the arguments that I presented you with, thank you for dropping all of them. In a debate to drop a point is to concede it.
So, onto the new arguments you are about to lose...
There are NO laws that *force* companies to hire women (or minorities). If you are trying to slam Affirmative Action, you'd better to look at how it really works. It gives goals, guidelines, suggestions, and direction to diversify the workforce (which actually increases productivity and is better for the company in the long run). The biggest part of AA is recruitment policy that usually says "hey, we don't have any women here. Maybe we should go to a place where women are and post our employment ad".
Next.
Outlawing sexual harrassment isn't some superfluous thing or a special privaledge for women. Men use SH laws as well. Look it up.
Next.
Almost every developed country in the world has a policy that offers paid time off for new mothers and many offer something similar for new fathers. We are the bass-ackward laughing stock of the developed world because we treat our mothers like dirt. Again, feminism is about choice (and, in this case, respect) and I think women/men should have the option to stay home and be with a newborn without being fired (the way my sister was).
Next.
If something is impractical (ear rings, long hair etc) it shouldn't be allowed regardless of sex. Just as long as it is a safety issue and not some arbitrary imposition of societal gender norms. Holy hell, we might actually agree on something. But wait!
Next.
"women know they aren't really real cops, and the male cops know it too."
***You should be ashamed of yourself.***
Female officers every year get killed in the line of duty protecting society and their partners and defending justice and you slander their sacrifice for the purpose of your own petty issues with your individual failure. Just because *you* couldn't hack it doesn't mean that they weren't good at it and doesn't mean that they deserve your derision.
Next.
Define your terms-
Radical feminism: questions why women *must* adopt certain roles based on their biology, just as it questions why men adopt certain other roles based on theirs. Radical feminism attempts to draw lines between biologically-determined behavior and culturally-determined behavior in order to free both men and women *as much as possible* from their previous narrow gender roles. Not all women are feminine, not all men are masculine.
But, radical feminism isn't the whole package of feminist thought. There are other views that run along side it. (socialist, liberal, marxist, moderate, separatist, gender, eco, the list goes on)
And you are right, there are differences between women and men; namely one has a vagina and the other has a penis. That doesn't mean that men are always bigger or always stronger. It doesn't mean that women as a whole are weak. Think of it as 2 bell curves that are mostly overlapping but one is shifted just a little to one side.
Ex. the tallest man is taller than the tallest woman, but there are many women taller than the average man. Saying that women shouldn't be pat
Comments
Jesus. Where's my spoof site?
Posted by: feministe | August 2, 2005 12:39 PM
WOW, the spoof site is hilarious. That site -- through sarcasm -- makes a lot of the points I've been trying to make here. The very old-fashioned "men-are-the-enemy-and-women-are-always-victimized-and-always -right" that is mostly portrayed here is just silly and embarrassing.
If you hate men just say it. Be a woman and come clean. And the few principles on here that actually date and/or marry men are so constricted by their silly politics that they always saddle themselves with weak feminine-men. Could the fact that you pick these weak-sister type of "men" possibly the reason you hate men so much?
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 12:46 PM
I thought they could have done a better job. They brought up rape too much, and victimization. It just wasn't funny.
Posted by: madelaine | August 2, 2005 12:59 PM
ColleenKelly, does that mean you'll start posting over there instead of shaking your finger at us for being such meanies to the patriarchy?
Because that would be *fabulous.*
Posted by: emjaybee | August 2, 2005 01:22 PM
Nah... I'll stay here so I can potentially save you. This embarrassing brand of comfortable-shoes-we-hate-men 1960's feminism practiced here sets the real movement back 40 years.
Real feminists don't hate men. Real feminists don't blame everything on men. Real feminists realize that women do not have to be lockstep on politics to be feminists.
And real feminists aren't afraid of real men like so many of the principles on here are. I really question the credentials of women who claim to be "feminists" but then are so terrified of men that they either become "political" lesbians or hook up with "girly" men (which seems to be the most common practice here). Silly girls, the key is to find strong men who RESPECT women, not weaklings who fear them and want to be nagged and ordered into shape.
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 01:32 PM
Wow, CK--I wasn't aware that you were acquainted with any of the editors' significant others. But you’re right, there’s no way a “real man” would date a feminist. In fact, the only way I can be with my little girly man boyfriend is to strap on a huge one. There--feel better now?
Posted by: Jessica | August 2, 2005 01:39 PM
Wow, nothing like reading the perpetual whining of men who don't like what women have to say!
Don't you know, Jessica, you're supposed to get a man to sign off before you can express any opinions?
And now we get the pleasure of ColleenKelly, who seems to think that "real feminists" will only hook up with real he-men. I think that measuring a woman's worth based on the biceps or alleged penis size of her boyfriend or husband is hysterical! Colleen, the great white huntress, proves her womanhood by bagging mister macho!
Then again, Colleen, if your he-men are so tough, why do they need you to come here defending them?
The insecurities revealed in this .org "parody" -- and its defender here -- put it all in perspective.
Posted by: media girl | August 2, 2005 01:46 PM
I'm afraid of men? I'll have to tell my boyfriend that. I think he probably wishes sometimes I was a little afraid of men.
Posted by: MW | August 2, 2005 01:58 PM
And I don't know any lesbians who hate men, CK. The only women I know who hate men are straight, non-feminist women. They hate men because they have to be subservient to them.
Posted by: MW | August 2, 2005 02:00 PM
I'm not here to defend men, I'm here to save you silly little spoiled white girls from yourselves. Feminism is about strength NOT weakness. Choosing weak sissy-boys for your "significan others" shows your weakness NOT your strength.
We are EQUAL to men, not so intimidated by them we only associate with wimpy boys because real men scare us.
Feminism has gone from "We are strong and we want nothing special only equality" to "Oh gee, its such a big bad world and men are so awful so we want all sorts of extra protection and special treatment for women because we are just too weak and inferior to stand on our own merit. Please, please protect us, we ARE just weak little women afterall."
The principles on here and most who post are not feminists, they are middle-class scared little white girls pretending to be grown up and playing "feminist".
Stop begging and nagging for special treatment. Be WOMEN and go make it in the world just like men have to.
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 02:01 PM
I put it through regendering software. Now maybe you can see how hateful it is, CK, now that it's aimed at men.
Posted by: Amanda | August 2, 2005 02:05 PM
Do you proudly declare that men are “capable of making their own decisions”… but you love to heap sneering contempt on those unthinking bimbos who decide to go on diets, be pro-life, have a rhinoplasty, vote Republican, get married, or who decide to do anything that masculists say men shouldn't do?
This particularly struck me as a wonderful quote now that it's been regendered.
Posted by: Amanda | August 2, 2005 02:08 PM
How coincidental that CK’s choice of language is eerily similar to that of men’s rights groups. Wonder why that is.
Posted by: Jessica | August 2, 2005 02:11 PM
This embarrassing brand of comfortable-shoes-we-hate-men 1960's feminism . . .
As a militant comfortable-shoes-wearer, I am highly offended by the implication that my healthy feet indicate a hatred of men. My Birkenstock clogs and I demand an apology.
Posted by: LAmom | August 2, 2005 02:15 PM
That regendering software is one of the coolest things I've seen in a long, long time.
Regarding the 'parody' site--first impression is that somebody has waaaaay too much time on their hands, but not enough spare time to do anything other than a cursory parody, really. I'm all for laughing at oneself, but make it more clever than "I got raped at Starbucks", please.
As far as CK goes, anytime anybody spends most of their time defnining what a 'real' feminist is, that's a Big Red Flag that they don't really get it. What would convince CK that she was wrong, ever? Nothin, because her positions are vacuous. What ever happened to the idea of reasoned discussion, CK?
Posted by: jpjesus | August 2, 2005 02:19 PM
Amanda, that was brilliant.
CK, it is probably best that you return to fucking your hairy mountain man so we can happily discuss our political lesbianism and our hatred of men without further interference.
PS Real feminists don't need to constantly refer to their relationships with men to validate themselves.
Posted by: C | August 2, 2005 02:19 PM
Congrats on being spoofed. It means you're on to something here at this blog (but I knew that already).
And CK you're making the same arguments that anti-feminist men and women were making during the second-wave feminist movement of the 60's.
Nice of you to ride on the wave they created and then dismiss feminist work at the same time. I hope you remember that when you vote or need contraception or crisis counselling or get to keep your job when you get pregnant.
Posted by: Steph | August 2, 2005 02:31 PM
Methinks "ColleenKelly" has been drinking the kool-ade.
Posted by: media girl | August 2, 2005 02:37 PM
This site frustrates me because it shows me that all my efforts to go out and teach people what real feminism is about are not having the earth shaking effects I was hoping for... *sigh*
And now for saving CK from her misperceptions.
CK:
You are partly right; real feminist don't hate men and don't blame them for everything. There is a huge difference with blaming the system and blaming the individual. I don't blame my fiance for oppressing me or anyone else; I blame the system of patriarchy.
Speaking of which...
Refering to a certain type of guy as being "girly" is in and of itself sexist when you act as though there is something wrong with femininity. I believe that particular form of misogyny/sexism is too commonly accepted. Women and men should both be allowed to act in whatever way they feel comfortable on the feminine/masculine spectrum without fear of being judged "too manish or too girly". I play video games and knit; my fiance writes poetry and does judo. Does that make him a fake man?It's good to have options. They make us human. I don't want a man that's nothing but brutish aggressive hostility in human form raising my children. People need balance.
P.S. CK: I'm not white.
Posted by: Ahlana | August 2, 2005 04:25 PM
This site frustrates me because it shows me that all my efforts to go out and teach people what real feminism is about are not having the earth shaking effects I was hoping for... *sigh*
I am moved to tears. I'm sorry I have opinions! Pretty damn inconsiderate of me, I admit.
Posted by: media girl | August 2, 2005 04:30 PM
Oh Ahlana:
Stop the silly nonsense. I am a career homicide detective and at the beginning of my career (1974) I was the second female patrol officer in the Chicago PD's history. I was a young and strident and foolish feminist then without benefit of real life experience or even much common sense.
I was on the job about 15 days before I realized that a woman -- unless she is extremely mannish and very unusually strong -- had absolutely no business being a patrol officer. Physical strenght is often called upon and I had my ass kicked often by even small men.
The worst part was that in several cases male officers were injured because they had to come to my rescue. An average build male in my position could have easily held his own while I was often hurt, in danger and in need of rescue.
The most frustrating part was I always wanted to be a detective. Before "radical feminist" demands were affected females in the PD could be trained to be detectives directly (detective work rarey if ever requires the kind of physical strength and command a patrol officer requires on the street). But after the feminists got ahold of things females had to follow the same track as men.
It has been extremely sad over the years to see females that would have made great commanders and/or detectives drop out in the initial patrol stage of their career because they were tired of getting their ass kicked or seeing male officers get hurt rescuing them.
Then came the famous incident in 1993 when it was revealed in Philadelphia that all big city police departments (mine in Chicago included)had purchased software that tracked where their female and male officers were so that only male officers were sent into dangerous situations. In other words, male officers -- receiving the same pay and benefits as we female officers -- were steered towards danger while females were protected. Despite some complaints (interestingly male officers never grumbled or said a word) the software has been left in place.
My point being: radical feminism relies on the false premise that there is no difference between men and women. NONE! What nonsense! Even ol' Gloria Steinem in her famous 1979 NYU debate with William F. Buckley, Jr. when asked if she was about to be raped did she want a female cop or a male cop to be the first officer on the scene. She initially said, "just a good officer of either gender". When the predomiantly female and supportive audience groaned and laughed in derisive disbelief she said, "Okay, okay... I'd want the biggest, meanest male cop to be there first and beat the guy's ass!".
I've been around the women's movement since the beginning and it's always had its silly radical element. The (obviously very young) women running this site think they sound worldly and angry and well... feminist. Instead they come off cartoonish. They wear their feminism the way a 12 yr old walking down the street smokes a cigarette thinking that passersby think he looks cool and older, when instead they just look foolish and as if they are seeking to look cool and older. The women running this site -- like the 12 yr old smoker -- can be clearly assessed from an outside view. They are spoiled middle class white girls who've never had a problem in their life but really, really think it's cool to act all feminist and as if murdering babies is really, really a great thing to do.
Feminism, in its basis is a very serious matter and abortion is a very sad -- but sometimes necessary procedure. Any woman who ever had one has been saddened and knew quite well she was killing her baby (not just cells, or a fetus or any of the other words people attempt to utilize to attempt to hide what they've done).
The "girly men" comment was not only a response to some of the pictures of their "men" they've shown but also what they've written and have written. As a woman and a feminist there are things I would never accept out of a male partner. These silly mostly fake feminists repeatedly disrespect life and men and no real man would put up with it. That's how I know their men are "girly" men. Unless they are just pussy opportunists.
A term I learned from feminists at abortion protests back in the early 80's while I was still a patrol officer. I'd be assigned to protect an abortion clinic (with other officers) and basically our job was to keep the two sides apart. Every once in a while they'd brawl. Whenever they'd brawl the men on the pro-abortion side would sometimes change sides and fight with the anti-abortionists or run and just stay out of the brawl.
The woman who ran the clinic and was really a wonderful person would often -- when things got bad -- come out to be on the side of the pro-abortionists. When I pointed out to her this bizarreness where these males would run once there was trouble she said, "Oh, their just pussy opportunists."
I, of course, said, "HUH? What's that". She said, "Well, we know they either don't care about the issue or are actually opposed to us but until they run its nice having some male faces on our side. We call them 'pussy opportunists' because the only reason they come is they think feminist women are easy lays."
The fake feminists on this site reveal themselves constantly. This young girl that posts on this site and just got married and constantly rails against "patriarchy" posted some wedding pictures and they are very traditional white dress "every little girls dream wedding" type photos. Nothing wrong with that, but stop pretending to hate men and the "patriarchy" (whatever that is!).
Feminism is about equal rights and opportunity, that's all! The goofy fake feminists with their fake hate need to grow up.
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 05:12 PM
Hey, _I_ have a crush on this website, too. ;-)
I'm with Steph on this one. I would count it as a badge of pride for someone or a group of people to bother and:
* Reserve a domain name
* Set up some web-publishing software
* Get one or more persons to regular bleed words,
create JPEGs, and otherwise produce content
on a regular or semi-regular basis
-- all as part of some smear campaign.
Granted, this list of tasks isn't all that hard to do, or expensive, but of all the things to do in this world...
I can't help but remember Gandhi's famous saying: "(1) First they ignore you. (2) Then they laugh at you. (3) Then they fight you. (4) Then you win."
I think feministing.com just entered (3).
Posted by: Mitchell | August 2, 2005 05:13 PM
Hey Mitchell:
First of all you insensitive bastard how dare you quote Ghandi, he's a MAN! What's wrong with you? Don't you know that all MEN are evil and all part of the (cue scary conspiracy indicating music now)PATRIARCHY?!
Just because someone was great at something doesn't mean EVERYTHING they say is correct (remember, Ghandi once assured the wes on Mao Tse Tungs behalf that Mao was NOT a communist and would have free and open elections within 90 days... um that was in 1948... we're uh... still er ... waiting for the elections). Ghandi was wrong about "(1) First they ignore you. (2) Then they laugh at you. (3) Then they fight you. (4) Then you win." Sometimes, as in this case THEY'RE JUST LAUGHING AT YOU!
The problem with the spoof site is it could never be as funny and embarrassingly self-indulgent as this one. Rich little suburban white girls without a care in the world posting on the computers that daddy bought them during the day hoping a really cute boy calls them and takes them out on a date. Sure, the boy will get fucked for sure... afterall... she's a feminist!
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 05:27 PM
Hey CK, you might want to calm down, you're blowing your female cover.
I certainly don't feel the need to defend myself against your bizarre tirades, but before you start to make assumptions about our respective backgrounds, you should really do your homework.
Posted by: Jessica | August 2, 2005 05:37 PM
Sorry, Colleen, not every woman who's had an abortion is saddened by it. Because that would be weird, don't you think - everyone reacting to an event in exactly the same way?
Posted by: jenofiniquity | August 2, 2005 05:46 PM
I forgot to say, congrats on getting parodied. Next to getting frothy-mouthed trolls in your comments, it just goes to show you've arrived! Maybe Limbaugh will mention your Feminazi ways soon, think of the traffic you'd get then....
Posted by: emjaybee | August 2, 2005 05:53 PM
"jenofiniquity":
No, normal well-adjusted people often react to happenings almost exactly the same way. Have you noticed many normal well-adjusted people laughing at films of holocaust victims being bulldozed into graves?
An abortion irrefutably ends a life. It kills a baby. Now people seem to be able to justify it ("but if I have this baby I'll get stretch marks and then how will I land a cute guy") but even ardent feminists gave up on the silly ol' abortion-is-okay argument that tried to claim that an abortion doesn't kill a baby, "its just a clump of cells".
Have you ever spent time with a woman whose had a very early term miscarriage? Do you yell at her for being sad? Do you deride her sense of loss? Do you say, "Oh cut it out, you haven't lost anything, it was just a clump of cells."
A good friend of mine, an ardent feminist and official in my union was once a fervent abortion activist. She met a good man, settled down and continued her important active feminism. They became pregnant and were thrilled. Very, very early in the term -- not long after they learned they were pregnant -- she had a miscarriage and was greatly saddened. She had just told her mom of the pregnancy the day before. After time spent in sadness with her husband she called her mom and said, "Mom, I lost my baby" and cried and sobbed.
Later, that night she had an epiphany. She had spent 15 years fighting for abortion rights and using the old "clump of cells" argument and realized that she told her mom that she had "lost" her "baby". Since that day she has worked just as hard for women's causes, but she is very, very anti-abortion. She calls it the big lie! She knew even at her early stage, a BABY had been lost.
Since I've quoted Gloria Steinem in a previous post I might as well again. Again, in her famous 1979 abortion debate with conservative writer William F. Buckley, Jr. at NYU in front of a very feminist mostly female audience Gloria foolishly made the old "clump of cells" argument.
Buckley said, "Oh, then its not a baby, just a clump of cells??" Steinem not sensing the trap said, "Yes, absolutely" which allowed Buckley to immediately retort: "Well if its not a baby, then why kill it?"
In one of the most embarrassing moments for feminism ever Steinem gasped noticeably, smiled... grimaced... made kind of a gutteral sound and stammered... and finally said as her supportive audience squirmed in discomfort at seeing their argument destroyed "Uh... well then what if the mother uh uh uh has a health problem, what do you choose, the baby or the mom"
Look, some can justify killing an unborn baby, but no one sane really believes its "not a baby". It's a baby, that's why their killing it. Because they don't want a BABY!
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 06:04 PM
Collen, do you have a funeral every month? I mean, the way you talk, I assume you're one of the "good women" providing sex for men. So every period represents a death, right?
I bet if you missed your period, you'd run right out and get a birth certificate for the "baby," right?
For a self-proclaimed feminist, how cavelierly you dismiss the woman's role in pregnancy. I guess a woman is just a bus, right?
Oh my.
I note that for all your gripes about feministing, you don't link to any site of your own. Why is that? Could it be that you don't practice what you preach? Why don't you start up your own site, instead of practicing the very whining you whine about here?
(Sorry Jessica, I can't help myself. I'll shut up now.)
Posted by: media girl | August 2, 2005 06:24 PM
Media Girl:
Sounds to me like your parents need to sit down with you next year when you turn 11 and have THAT talk with you, you sure don't understand sex or the female body very well.
Did you think your period was your body getting rid of impregnanted eggs? It isn't. Only eggs that haven't been impregnated are removed during your period. You don't have a period when you are pregnant because an egg is impregnated and the body won't remove it thus killing the baby.
Get some sex ed. in junior high, it'll all get clearer to you!
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 06:43 PM
CK's facade is slipping. Anyday now he'll she'll reveal who she really is.
Anyway, I thought the site was stupid fun until I saw the racist slap at my boyfriend. Seeing as how he really has nothing to do with this, that was a low, low blow.
Posted by: Amanda Marcotte | August 2, 2005 06:51 PM
Every fertilized egg implants successfully? Wow, that turns decades of clinical data upside down. I hereby nominate CK for a Nobel Peace Prize in Medicine.
Posted by: janvermeer | August 2, 2005 07:19 PM
Abortion and miscarriages are ambiguous events that women do NOT react to uniformly, but it's slick of you to try to define normalcy as having only one emotional reaction to those events. I've seen friends & relatives through abortions and miscarriages, and have been struck by the difference of their reactions, depending on their circumstances. CK has plenty of feminist just-so stories, though--curious.
Posted by: jenofiniquity | August 2, 2005 07:34 PM
Anyone else reckon that CK's comments share the style and thematic preoccupations of the spoof site?
Posted by: janvermeer | August 2, 2005 07:34 PM
CK, it seems you forgot that according to MARR (misogynists against reproductive rights) life supposedly begins at conception. That means you're biology lesson is, um, wrong?
Perhaps you were picketing Planned Parenthood the day in class when we learned that not all fertilized eggs actually implant successfully in the uterus. But don't let facts get in the way of your rants. It's all very entertaining. It's like a parody of a real debate right here on the real site.
Posted by: media girl | August 2, 2005 07:52 PM
I came here by way of Pandagon and I'm amazed. The parody site is... well, they went to all the trouble of setting it up and then got slap-dash and threw in every lazy cliche they could think of. What really interests me is ColleenKelly.
I think the difference between "baby" and "bunch of cells" as terms for a fetus is mostly a matter of whether the woman carrying it actively wants it or not. The thing currently kicking hell out of my belly is quite definitely a baby, and if I lost it I would be devastated, but the things that grow inside other women can be mere fetuses without overturning my value system.
As regards wimpy/girly/whatever kind of men outspoken feminists are supposed to prefer, I have no patience with my now-ex (baby's father) precisely because he's such a spineless wimp. He fits exactly the profile of what the parody guys would have us believe a feminist does: whining and making himself out to be the victim at all times. If I was interested in complete domination, he'd be perfect, but I like men who can at least take charge of their own affairs to some extent, thank-you-very-much.
Posted by: Nick Kiddle | August 2, 2005 09:01 PM
I only skimmed it, so I missed the racist comments about Amanda's boyfriend, but I did catch the flaming hatred towards college educated middle class white women.
College-educated seems to be a major trigger for these guys, and CK seems to be quite proud of 'her' working-class background herself, in a defensive sort of way. Maybe CK & The Parody Men would relax a little if they'd wander around the blogrolls a bit and find the ones made by non-college grads or working single moms and other sundry non "silly little spoiled white girls." They might calm down once they realize that no one here is saying "non-degreed = moron" or "blue-collar worker = icky"
Posted by: Kyso K | August 2, 2005 10:04 PM
And is anyone else having trouble verifying CK's claims about tracking software and Stienem quotes? Maybe my google skills are a bit rusty.
Posted by: Kyso K | August 2, 2005 10:06 PM
Woah, these guys have obviously got WAY too much time on their hands ... and some real issues with diversity of opinion, and women with .. well, thoughts, and race, and ... damn, pick a diversity ...
Posted by: Sarah in Chicago | August 2, 2005 10:16 PM
CK, it is probably best that you return to fucking your hairy mountain man
What did hairy mountain men ever do to you, C? Why do you wish such evil upon us?
Posted by: Chris Clarke | August 2, 2005 10:37 PM
I have no idea where the "racist" nonsense comes from, I guess they were so embarrassed at being outed as full of crap that they tried to come up with something.
Secondly, where does this "college educated" nonsense come from. I have a Bachelor's Degree from Northwestern University here on the good ol' north shore of Chicago. This site's problems have nothing to do with education or race. Their problems range from laziness to bullshitting. Rich girls living off of daddy until Mr. Right comes along so they can switch men to live off of hardly makes them feminists.
This sites feminists exist basically within the parameters of two basic complaints. They are upset that someone (the gov't? Daddy? Anyone?) hasn't come along and just given them everything they want without them working for it is in their view a result of "PATRIARCHY". It isn't "patriarchy" that is your problem young girls... its "laziness". You think just because you are women and daddy has taken care of you until now and you haven't achieved anything (though you haven't tried) means you are a victim of sexism. NOOOO,it means you are a victim of laziness!
Secondly, you'll find its a lot easier to learn about and use birth control and possibly consider NOT spreading your legs for every guy who offers to split a beer with you while mumbling, "Oh...yeah...uh... I'm a feminist, too" then it is running out for an abortion every couple of months.
You little women aren't feminists, you are a feminist's nightmare of hyporcrisy and just plain ol' missing the point!
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 2, 2005 11:15 PM
"Secondly, you'll find its a lot easier to learn about and use birth control and possibly consider NOT spreading your legs for every guy who offers to split a beer with you while mumbling, "Oh...yeah...uh... I'm a feminist, too" then it is running out for an abortion every couple of months."
Yeah, because that happens all the damn time.
So, apparently I'm kinda a girly-man, and thus I deserve nothing but scorn, and probably I should be beaten up a few times to make me tougher.
I didn't realise that real feminism was about yelling at people who don't fit traditional gender roles. You learn something everyday.
Posted by: Christopher | August 2, 2005 11:52 PM
CK, your ability to pretend you're a woman and not one of the men involved in this is fading quickly. And while you and your buddies hide behind score for white women, as if that made you not racist somehow, taking potshots at my boyfriend, who has nothing to do with this, is completely out of line.
Posted by: Amanda Marcotte | August 3, 2005 12:05 AM
Amanda:
You are just a flat out LIAR. I never made any racial comments towards your boyfriend or any other person. My husband of 24 years is African-American. I'd be a pretty confused racist!
I think what you are confusing is my pointing out that the only men who'd be with you silly FAKE feminists who sit around and whine all day about "Patriarchy" and other such silly, mentally ill conspiracy theories (maybe that's what men are doing when they say they are at ball games: they're REALLY at secret PATRIARCHY meetings planning the next way the girls at Feministing are gonna get screwed out of something they never worked for anyway).
Any man that'd be with a silly, whining, nagging, bitching ("oh woe is me, those evil men have screwed up my life again") fake feminist like you and the other girls is either so physically unattractive that he figures because fake feminists give out their pussies like gum in a barbershop he has no choice but to fake support or he's just a girly man looking for you to take on the "male" role. Is that what you thought was racist?
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 3, 2005 12:18 AM
I didn't realise that real feminism was about yelling at people who don't fit traditional gender roles. You learn something everyday.
Christopher, you do indeed learn something everyday. I hope you'll spend more time around MRAs. Then you will learn much more about feminist lies.
So, apparently I'm kinda a girly-man, and thus I deserve nothing but scorn, and probably I should be beaten up a few times to make me tougher.
Hey, you're a man. You're a guy. There's no good reason to berate yourself, no matter what the feminist man-haters tell you. Even so, if you want to toughen up, e-mail me and maybe we can put the gloves on sometime. You might show me a thing or two about boxing also.
Posted by: mraguy101 | August 3, 2005 12:21 AM
CK, shoo. Seriously, go find your own corner of the internet where you are wanted and contribute to their rants.
Go away.
I don't care if she's a guy or a girl, it's superflurous. She's a jackass.
Feminist does not equal slut. Women still like sex. Not all women have regrets after an abortion. Pregnancy is a process. No one is complaining about the patriarchy been the cause of all ills, and no one's mad that everything hasn't just handed to us girls. Look around you: everyone that blogs or blogments has at least one job, and a lot of them are moms (which is a job, just not as well paid). Feminists aren't just going from daddy to husband, that's what women did BEFORE feminism. And their bfs and husbands are more manly than any boner that has no respect for women.
Posted by: Antigone | August 3, 2005 01:35 AM
Of course not all women have regrets about abortion. Motherhood and human life means nothing to many of them. After all, that is what abortion is, the termination of a human life in the womb. That is why 50 million babies have been killed, making the abortion holocaust worse than the Nazi holocaust, and making some inclined to mouth without any irony whatsoever terms like, 'FemiNazi.'
The very presence of you spoiled white girls on the web protesting against imaginary enemies is laughable, when the truth is you are the most priveleged group of human beings ever to walk the Earth. No two ways about it. You would not know hardship if it jumped at you in a dark alley. You are spoiled middle class brats who have discovered the perfect racket to extort free money and careers, for you lack all other talent and ability other than as pristesses in the cult of entitlement/complaint, feminism.
I disagree with CK in one respect, that these spoiled white girls give feminism a bad name. They give it an appropriate name and they are quite fitting standard bearers for the cult. "It's all someone else's fault" should be your slogan. It is sad, pathetic, and deep down many of you know it, which is why you take a deep breath and project extra hard whenever someone makes you look at the truth unembellished.
You are the most priveleged human beings on Earth, all on the backs of men. No denying it; men created the system, you are sucking its life blood, and it will soon collapse. Socialism of this kind is not sustainable, especially with a declining birth rate (which we have as a result of the destruction of marriage, a stated aim of feminists.) Men are dropping out of the system, not marrying, and the system will collapse; no more feminism, no more free handouts, no more government apparatus with money enough to pander to your whims for fear of political pressure from your lobby.
The shit will hit the fan, ladies and gentladies, and it will happen in your life time. Be prepared, I suggest.
Posted by: MRA Critical Mass | August 3, 2005 01:53 AM
Damn, CK. I said you friends were racist on their cute little site. Pardon me though, if I am incredulous about the husband thing, since the female thing is still giving me doubts.
Posted by: Amanda Marcotte | August 3, 2005 07:38 AM
Damn, CK. I said you friends were racist on their cute little site. Pardon me though, if I am incredulous about the husband thing, since the female thing is still giving me doubts.
I've been to the real feministing site--feministing.org--and there's nothing racist there. Even though I don't believe that you have a boyfriend, if you did, to refer to him as "Latino" in a purely factual statement is not racist. I know that you little white-girl princesses find it chic to throw around words like "racist" and "sexist," but it's just a game you play from your sheltered ivory tower of privilege.
Now, run along little Amanda, and go play with your imaginary boyfriend.
Posted by: mraguy101 | August 3, 2005 08:07 AM
'CK, it seems you forgot that according to MARR (misogynists against reproductive rights) life supposedly begins at conception. That means you're biology lesson is, um, wrong?'
Huh? You asked Colleen if she had a funeral every month for her period. She answered that it is unfertilized eggs that are passed in a period (there is no implantation of a zygote, so your period occurs).
And you post that? There is no 'conception' with a period...
Posted by: crella | August 3, 2005 08:48 AM
Damn, I had my hopes up with this parody site - but alas. "Sadly, Yes!" at least had a sort of filthy child-smearing-feces-on-the-wall glee to it. This, though - this is _pathetic_. Calling it a parody site is annoying - "parody" connotates humor to me, and there's not really any there, just biluous hatred sloppily framed as hating feminists, men who agree with feminists, and anyone with a college education.
I'm counting ColleenKelly and the MRA trolls here as part of the parody. They're close enough.
Posted by: Sean M | August 3, 2005 09:26 AM
CK:
Ignoring your mad case of ADD...
Just cuz *you* make a shitty cop doesn't mean that ALL women would make shitty cops. In fact, not all men would make great cops either. I would rather have a female black belt in karate come to my rescue than Stephen Hawking or Paule Shore. And there are shades of feminism, some adhering to the belief that there are minimal differences between men and women, and others believing that there are a wide range of differences but that they shouldn't matter in the bigger picture. I don't think men and women are the same because I don't think people in general are the same. Having a vagina doesn't make you a bad cop the same way having a penis doesn't make you good at math. I teach self defense and regularly spar with men twice my size. I'm 5'6 and 110lbs but I can take down my 6'7 220lbs partner. There's more to confrontation than size so don't blame your failure on your pussy.
Next.
Repeat: I'm not white. I don't find that this site speaks only to the white middle class female. They deal with issues of race and gender. Oh, and I also haven't had a "perfect" life (jealous of the bloggers'lives are you?). I've survived poverty and abusive parents/partner before I got into self defense and feminism. This "crap" saved my life by showing me that I'm not a punching bag, so show a little respect.
Next: Did I mention abortion? Nope? Moving on.
Next: "girly men". Thanks again for showing your level of sexism. You make a rotten feminist if you can't allow for equality between the sexes. If a man wants to write poetry, sing opera, or dance ballet who are you to judge his life choices? Especially since you decided you wanted to break the mold and be a cop. Men should have the same rights as women to pick what they do with their lives and your degradation of them for being "girly" is callous and sexist. Gender roles are societal, which is why they aren't universal (do some work in anthropology and you'll see that). In the middle east men grieve by weeping openly at funerals. Would you call the men of Iraq girly?
Next: None of these women are "fake feminists" just because you are too judgemental and close minded to accept them. The definition of feminism is belief in the equality of women and men and there is nothing that says that you can't believe in equality and still adhere to traditions *if* you make the choice to do so. White wedding or not, motherhood or not, stay at home or have a career, marry or don't, sex it up or don't. Feminism supports the ability of the individual (male and female) to choose what's in their own best interest.
Next: "This site's problems have nothing to do with education or race." If that's the case, why do you keep harping on how the women on this site are all spoiled middle class college educated white females? Sex/race/class don't give you a lock on the truth pertaining to that group. I've known men who were better feminists than I am. I've been a better black activist than some of my black friends.
Next: Daddy didn't give me squat. I moved out when I was 16 to escape Daddy and I've been living on my own ever since. I have worked as many as 3 jobs while taking fulltime classes because I refuse to be dependent on anyone. Don't call me lazy, you don't know me. And patriarchy is the system that let my dad break my jaw when I was 10 and not spend anytime in jail. The cops said "He's just a father disciplining his child." That is patriarchy. I don't blame individuals for it, I blame the system that allows for that sort of thing to happen to children. I don't think any one should have to live through what I did. Even though I survived (and thrived), the system that supports violence, rape, and restrictions based on the presence or absence of a vagina needs to be dismantled. I'm changing the system to protect people (men and women) from what should not be allowed to continue. I guess that means that I love men more than you because I love them enough to let them be who they want to be instead of forcing my views down their throat like some sort of over controlling parent making their son go to law school when he really wants to be an architech.
mediagirl:
I *think* you misunderstood my first post. I meant that the site of the origninal post frustrated me. The .org is frustrating, not the .com
Posted by: Ahlana | August 3, 2005 10:15 AM
“….disagree with CK in one respect, that these spoiled white girls give feminism a bad name. They give it an appropriate name and they are quite fitting standard bearers for the cult.”
Hello- we’re not all white! I happen to be African-American. Can you stereotype feminist bloggers anymore? Way to be anti-feminist by not including other communities!
But really, that’s beside the point. Y’all are just unintelligent. There is really nothing else to say. You come on a feminist website and you spit out tired clichés, you insult people’s partners, and you make backhanded racist and sexist comments. All under the guise of being “real” feminists. CK & co., you’re just not smart, college degrees or no college degrees. But even worse, you’re not even FUNNY. You’re completely incapable of delivering anything original. If you’re going to provide us with entertainment, at least be creative about it! Even your use of sarcasm (something most people can do) is just absolutely horrendous. I demand humor! Go visit Michelle Malkin or Ann Coulter- perhaps they can give you some tips.
Posted by: Sydney | August 3, 2005 10:18 AM
I love it when very wounded men try to impersonate women to post about feminism. They don't realize how very transparent they are.
And by the way guys, er, I mean CK et al, it's true. Lesbians don't hate men. Sorry to bruise your fantasy, but we don't really think about men much. We have male friends, fathers, sons and brothers whom we love dearly. We even sometimes have crushes on and attractions to men and sometimes even have sex with men.
What's so hard for the walking wounded men to understand is that lesbians are attracted to women because women are so very attractive and so very hot. It's very painful for some men to learn that lesbianism isn't in reaction to them and has nothing to do with them. They want to be in there somewhere, but sorry guys. It really is all about the girls.
Posted by: slouise | August 3, 2005 10:36 AM
Amanda says "taking potshots at my boyfriend, who has nothing to do with this, is completely out of line."
Maybe you should ban CK for daring to be out of line with you the way you banned me from Pandagon. After all, if you can't win an argument, you should just ban them , right?
BTW, I guess i was right about that whole london thing, wasn't I? I don't really expect an apology from you, though. That would take class and honor. I noticed you deleted that whole post from your archives. Getting rid of the evidence, huh?
Are you going to get me banned from feministing now?
Posted by: tfreridge | August 3, 2005 10:48 AM
I came here from Pandagon, and all I have to say is that I am so grateful to ColleenKelly for telling us all about this new technology out there on the internet that lets you see such personal things about people you've never met and wouldn't recognize if you saw them on the street. I am so impressed. ColleenKelly, you must tell me what kind of computer, browser and internet connection you are using. I really need try this out for myself. And then perhaps I can return the favor, and spend an almost disturbing amount of time writing up lengthy, spittle-covered diatribes that list each of your own failings. It's helped me so much, I'm positive you could benefit as well.
Posted by: easilyirritable | August 3, 2005 11:11 AM
Fridgehead: Let it go already, there's nothing more pathetic than someone who focuses so much on something that shouldn't affect you a great deal
Real men just walk away and try to be the bigger man, they don't jump up and down flinging their crap hither and yon in an attempt to get people to pay attention to them. Note that you are being lectured on masculinity by a woman (and worse: you seem to need it) and also note that football hooligans didn't smash up mosques all over london town, which is what you got banned for sayiing on 7/7, so STFU and grow some 'nad hair, you pathetic manchild.
I've been to the real feministing site--feministing.org--and there's nothing racist there. Even though I don't believe that you have a boyfriend, if you did, to refer to him as "Latino" in a purely factual statement is not racist.
Oh again, grow the hell up for ffs, you know and I know and anyone with half a brain knows that the only point in saying someone's SI is "latino" is to try to shame them by pointing out that they are in a *GASP* Interracial relationship! (you did notice that MAanda wight
There is no non-racist rason for pointing out that her SI is Latino, it is not relevant to any discussion that's going on right here and right now, so cut the childish pre-school "well I was only saying it to be factually accurate" BS, You know Exactly WHY you brought up her latino SI, be a man and admit it or just drop the issue if you don't like being called names you hairless balled moron.
And the rest of you! Why are you so incredibly weak and pathetic and so deeply insecure just being men that you have to get your jollies trying (and even more pathetically, failing) to intimidate a bunch of people belonging to a gender you love to tell yourselves are so inferior to your own?
If you think your so great because of your gender then act like it! Why is that such a hard thing for you to do? You must realise how pathetic an ego that's built on tearing other people down is and looks?
Why are you embarrassing yourselves like this?
Posted by: R. Mildred | August 3, 2005 11:49 AM
Thank you for saying it first (and better than I could have) Ahlana:
"Just cuz *you* make a shitty cop doesn't mean that ALL women would make shitty cops"
No matter who or what CK reallly is, you hit the nail on the head there regarding his/her/its 'reasoning'.
Posted by: jpjesus | August 3, 2005 12:46 PM
You silly feminist wannabe's embarrass me with your attempts at glibness that only fail and accentuate the foolishness of your positions.
I wasn't a "shitty" cop, I was just female. Someone 5' 5" and 108 pounds can have all the training in the world but still can't handle a 6' 180 pound man. In almost all patrol situations female officers at best are just in the way and in many circumstances just make situations worse by giving the male cops more work and more to worry about. A group of cops going into a bar fight have to worry about breaking up the fight and making arrests. When there are female officers there (which NEVER happens anymore because of software that would steer the female officers away or assign them to traffic control)the male cops now have to worry not only about breaking up the fight and making arrests but also about protecting the female officers.
Because of differences in size and strength I was -- as 99.99% of women are - an extremely ineffective patrol officer. But, I am a great detective. Physical strength does not come into it and gender has no effect.
Having laws that force employers to hire women into positions where male strength gives them a wide advantage is just silly. It just costs us all a fortune (female patrol officers nationwide are hurt on the job 7 more times than males and spend 4.2 times more time on injury/disability pay). Among detectives those numbers are the same for men and women.
Laws that don't acknowledge the differences between men and women are silly, illogical and only hurt real feminists by making them appear just plain old stupid. We could pass a law that says horse-racing discriminates against women by not letting them put on a saddle and compete with the horses. But the horses would always win and no law would make horses and women "equal" in speed.
Back when I was young we came on demanding just the right to equally compete with men for work. We said we didn't want any special treatment, just an equal shot. Well, it turns out we lied. Once we got the equal shot we started demanding all sorts of special treatment: "Ewww, don't tell a dirty joke that I might overhear (if I try really hard)." "Oh no, those physical requirements are too hard -- I understand that they are necessary to protect the public -- but lower them anyway." "I know I said I wanted a job but now I want time off -- with pay -- for when I CHOOSE to have a baby, in fact, you know what... I think I might take off years to raise the children I CHOOSE to have but when I return I want my pay and benefits to be the same as if I was actually here all those years."
When I was first a young patrol officer the grooming requirements were the same for male and female officers. Short hair and no jewelry. These are very sensible rules for patrol officers. Bad guys grab your hair during altercations if its long enough to grab and the same with jewelry such as loop earrings, necklaces, etc.
The second year I was an officer and our female officers had soared to only 1 percent of the police force one of our female officers got NOW to file a lawsuit allowing us (female officers ONLY) to have any length hair we wanted and to wear any jewelry we wanted. Sigh... just another reason why in certain jobs -- such as patrol officer -- women know they aren't really real cops, and the male cops know it too.
Sorry, girls, radical feminism is bullshit. There are differences between men and women and social policy that doesn't recognize it is foolish and damaging. And its exactly why most people -- especially women -- reject feminism.
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 3, 2005 01:41 PM
I bet I know why you sucked at your job as a cop. It wasn't because you were a 'woman'. It's because you spend all goddamn day on the internet engaging in flamewars. Seriously, a life can be yours for the low cost of turning off your computer and stepping out your front door.
Posted by: easilyirritable | August 3, 2005 02:12 PM
Well GEE "easilyirritable":
I work the evening shift -- I'm at home now -- and it seems like perhaps YOU are here also. Why not take your own advice and turn your computer off???
Posted by: ColleenKelly | August 3, 2005 02:15 PM
Because I'm actually at work right now. I'm at work right now but soon I will go home and mooch off my husband, who is currently at home, cleaning our apartment and making dinner plans for tonight. But whatever - I have a vagina, therefore I am a leech. But if it's not my husband I leech off of, it's my dad, right? Right.
Posted by: easilyirritable | August 3, 2005 02:19 PM
Ok, CK, I'll use smaller words to make sure you understand... I mean 'I'll use smaller words so that you get it'
I am 5'6 and 110 lbs. I spar daily with men. Those men are between 6' and 6'7 and weigh between 170 and 230 lbs. I can effectively take on up to 4 men at one time (170x4=680 lbs of flesh vs 110lbs and I still win). My pussy doesn't get in the way of being a self defense instructor or of winning martial arts tournaments. The best part is that I'm not some body building phenom. I have a very petite build; I'm much smaller than WAY more than .01% of the female population. So, if I can do what I do then so can hundreds of thousands of other women. Teaching women how to do this is my job.
Don't blame your vagina for your own failure.
I guess you must be jealous that I'd make a better cop than you... If you want I could give you some lessons. I'd even do it pro bono.
As for the rest of the arguments that I presented you with, thank you for dropping all of them. In a debate to drop a point is to concede it.
So, onto the new arguments you are about to lose...
There are NO laws that *force* companies to hire women (or minorities). If you are trying to slam Affirmative Action, you'd better to look at how it really works. It gives goals, guidelines, suggestions, and direction to diversify the workforce (which actually increases productivity and is better for the company in the long run). The biggest part of AA is recruitment policy that usually says "hey, we don't have any women here. Maybe we should go to a place where women are and post our employment ad".
Next.
Outlawing sexual harrassment isn't some superfluous thing or a special privaledge for women. Men use SH laws as well. Look it up.
Next.
Almost every developed country in the world has a policy that offers paid time off for new mothers and many offer something similar for new fathers. We are the bass-ackward laughing stock of the developed world because we treat our mothers like dirt. Again, feminism is about choice (and, in this case, respect) and I think women/men should have the option to stay home and be with a newborn without being fired (the way my sister was).
Next.
If something is impractical (ear rings, long hair etc) it shouldn't be allowed regardless of sex. Just as long as it is a safety issue and not some arbitrary imposition of societal gender norms. Holy hell, we might actually agree on something. But wait!
Next.
"women know they aren't really real cops, and the male cops know it too."
***You should be ashamed of yourself.***
Female officers every year get killed in the line of duty protecting society and their partners and defending justice and you slander their sacrifice for the purpose of your own petty issues with your individual failure. Just because *you* couldn't hack it doesn't mean that they weren't good at it and doesn't mean that they deserve your derision.
Next.
Define your terms-
Radical feminism: questions why women *must* adopt certain roles based on their biology, just as it questions why men adopt certain other roles based on theirs. Radical feminism attempts to draw lines between biologically-determined behavior and culturally-determined behavior in order to free both men and women *as much as possible* from their previous narrow gender roles. Not all women are feminine, not all men are masculine.
But, radical feminism isn't the whole package of feminist thought. There are other views that run along side it. (socialist, liberal, marxist, moderate, separatist, gender, eco, the list goes on)
And you are right, there are differences between women and men; namely one has a vagina and the other has a penis. That doesn't mean that men are always bigger or always stronger. It doesn't mean that women as a whole are weak. Think of it as 2 bell curves that are mostly overlapping but one is shifted just a little to one side.
Ex. the tallest man is taller than the tallest woman, but there are many women taller than the average man. Saying that women shouldn't be pat