"I love feministing.com and always learn from it." Katha Pollitt, The Nation
"Many people need a morning "fix." For some, it's coffee. For others, it's "SportsCenter." For me, it's Feministing.com." Katie Stone, The Denver Post
"Feminism is fun again! Every bit as edifying as your women's studies books from college, but with a biting sense of humor that keeps things punchy, not preachy." Marie Claire, December 2006
It wasn't exactly news to me that Harvard Government professor Harvey Mansfield is an asshole. After all, this is a guy who gave a lecture on the "problem" of women's autonomy and has said that gay and transgendered people should remain on "society's margin."
So The New York Times Magazine interview with Mansfield, Of Manliness and Men, is really just the icing on the misogyny cake.
The whole interview is priceless, but this bit is my fave:
We need roles. Roles give us mutual expectations of what is either correct or good behavior. Women are neater than men, they make nests, and all these other stereotypes are mostly true. Wives and mothers correct you; they hold you to a standard; they want to make you better.
To which interviewer Deborah Solomon responds, "I am beginning to wonder if you have ever spoken to a woman." Indeed.
By the way, it looks like Mansfield's original book cover (above) didn't quite cut it. I guess even a brick wall wasn't manly enough for Mr. I-Lift-and-Open-Things.
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://feministing.com/movabletype/mt-tb.cgi/1851.
Comments
The man is clearly a fool, a fact the interviewer exposed rather cleverly.
Anyone who clings to the idea of "roles" is going to be very confused in this day in age. You almost have to feel a little sorry for these hardcore traditionalists.
But the real problem is he attempts to support his position by trying to align himself with the Summers/Pinker position, without even understanding it.
So by confusing statistical correlations with absolute rules, he leaves himself open to ridicule, and damages the whole debate in the process.
Just to clarify: Most men are better at moving furniture, but not ALL. Any women who have the ability and inclination to be professional movers (or firefighters, or mechanics) should be free to do so.
yo, my favorite two parts are when this quack says, "People listen to me, but they don't pay attention to what I say. I should punch them out, but I don't."
dang... for real? i'd love to duke it out with this asshole. i mean, i don't want to be ageist or anything, so i promise i wouldn't hold anything back. crap-talking jackass... if you're going to go off about knocking out your colleagues, you damn well better put one down or you're just a big bag of hot air. i mean, dang, even if the cat got himself knocked out after saying that, i'd have more respect for him than just talking a bunch of guff.
i also really like the comment about doormen. living in new york and knowing some doormen, i can tell you that, while most of them are actually really amazing at what they do and pretty amazing people in general, the way one lands a job like that is pretty obscure.
also, on the moving furniture tip, that's more a matter of physical fitness than biological determinism... i mean, dang... look at that guy... i'd love to move some furniture with him.
Just the bloviating of an unmanly professor. Reaction formation by a paper pusher. Why doesn't he get a real man's job, like trashman (plenty of lifting and opening there, not to mention making a lot of noise with the truck and the cans).
all you progressives in perfectly eglitarian relationships may not understand, but in fact the majority still live by "roles".
Even me. For example. My mom picked up after me. If she didn't, the entire house would have looked like my room (on those days she didn't clean it up)
today, my GF picks up after me. if she didn't, my stuff would be scattered all over the floor, the way i prefer. I don't notice, i don't care. I am reading a book lost in my head. If landry is all over the living room floor, I just step over it and move on. she picks it up, folds it, finds the snack rappers on the floor, the dishes of food I leave on the floor when snacking late at night.
Seriously not much has changed. I have seen this with so many male friends, sure it is anecdotal evidence, but his observation here may welll be true. Guys are bigger pictgure and don't care about organization as much.
"Guys are bigger pictgure and don't care about organization as much."
(Like the guys at GE that invented Six Sigma. No concern for organization or process there. Or the guy that invented the Dewey Decimal System.)
Do you think about these tired stereotypes before you repeat them, or do you just parrot the conventional wisdom of your post-fratboy friends?
I have to say, that was the lamest excuse for not being a responsible adult ever. So what exactly is your bigger picture that you can't pick up after yourself?
PS - Guys at Motorola invented Six Sigma, the GE guys just adopted it and ran with it.
all you progressives in perfectly eglitarian relationships may not understand, but in fact the majority still live by "roles".
that's precious. i mean, dang, majority rules, i forgot. you know, at one point, just about everyone in this one crazy society believed the earth was flat, too... did that mean they were right?
and i guess your whole big-picture mentality is where snack "rappers" come from - or does your girlfriend/mom actually have to pick the fat boys off your floor?
i just wonder what you must be doing for these women to make it worth their while to clean up after you while juggling their own ambitions... oh, yeah, i forgot how much you go off on your sexual exploits on this board... and i guess women don't really have ambitions anyways, right? except for to clean up after stallions like you, maybe.
You do the very argument in his book bad by your objections. Indeed, you must be right. He comes across painting a picture that women are prone to invoke more reason and calmly contemplate things.
Perhaps even calmly consider more sides than one? How about reading an article written by a... woman:
I go to Harvard. I have taken government classes taught by Harvey Mansfield. He is a smart man and he makes compelling arguments. Most of you who have written comments wouldn't understand this because you haven't read what he has written. The arrogance which average people of mediocre intellect display in these posts is amazing -you all make the same trite comments. I suppose this is to be expected when people no longer read but feel they can write. Read his book and then act like a semi-literate group of morons who have opinions.
I go to Harvard. I have taken government classes taught by Harvey Mansfield. He is a smart man and he makes compelling arguments. Most of you who have written comments wouldn't understand this because you haven't read what he has written. The arrogance which average people of mediocre intellect display in these posts is amazing -you all make the same trite comments. I suppose this is to be expected when people no longer read but feel they can write. Read his book and then act like a semi-literate group of morons who have opinions.
The best resources about online poker are: online poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/index.html]online poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/index.html]online poker resources [/LINK] online poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/online-poker.html]online poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/online-poker.html]online poker [/LINK] poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/poker.html]poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/poker.html]poker [/LINK]
Well, Arthur Finn, so the majority of people here are stupid because they see him for the male-chauvenist pig he really is? And what are people doing here if they don't read? Pull your head out of your ass. The weather out here is lovely.
And JesusJonesSuperstar (what a ridiculous name), you seem to be so proud of making your girlfriend pick up after you like you're some sloppy, helpless child. She most likely only does it because it's obvious that you refuse to. For fuck's sake, it pisses me off when men treat women like they are their mothers and maids. And it's pathetic. And shameful. Tell me, do you have to get her to wipe your ass, too? Or do you just go on the floor? If my boyfriend did the things you do, I'd throw him out on his lazy ass. You have alot to learn about respect. Grow up, and stop being a child. If you're lucky, maybe she won't leave your sorry ass.
Comments
The man is clearly a fool, a fact the interviewer exposed rather cleverly.
Anyone who clings to the idea of "roles" is going to be very confused in this day in age. You almost have to feel a little sorry for these hardcore traditionalists.
But the real problem is he attempts to support his position by trying to align himself with the Summers/Pinker position, without even understanding it.
So by confusing statistical correlations with absolute rules, he leaves himself open to ridicule, and damages the whole debate in the process.
Just to clarify: Most men are better at moving furniture, but not ALL. Any women who have the ability and inclination to be professional movers (or firefighters, or mechanics) should be free to do so.
Posted by: tragula | March 13, 2006 11:27 AM
yo, my favorite two parts are when this quack says, "People listen to me, but they don't pay attention to what I say. I should punch them out, but I don't."
dang... for real? i'd love to duke it out with this asshole. i mean, i don't want to be ageist or anything, so i promise i wouldn't hold anything back. crap-talking jackass... if you're going to go off about knocking out your colleagues, you damn well better put one down or you're just a big bag of hot air. i mean, dang, even if the cat got himself knocked out after saying that, i'd have more respect for him than just talking a bunch of guff.
i also really like the comment about doormen. living in new york and knowing some doormen, i can tell you that, while most of them are actually really amazing at what they do and pretty amazing people in general, the way one lands a job like that is pretty obscure.
also, on the moving furniture tip, that's more a matter of physical fitness than biological determinism... i mean, dang... look at that guy... i'd love to move some furniture with him.
Posted by: puckalish | March 13, 2006 04:25 PM
Just the bloviating of an unmanly professor. Reaction formation by a paper pusher. Why doesn't he get a real man's job, like trashman (plenty of lifting and opening there, not to mention making a lot of noise with the truck and the cans).
Posted by: NancyP | March 13, 2006 06:12 PM
all you progressives in perfectly eglitarian relationships may not understand, but in fact the majority still live by "roles".
Even me. For example. My mom picked up after me. If she didn't, the entire house would have looked like my room (on those days she didn't clean it up)
today, my GF picks up after me. if she didn't, my stuff would be scattered all over the floor, the way i prefer. I don't notice, i don't care. I am reading a book lost in my head. If landry is all over the living room floor, I just step over it and move on. she picks it up, folds it, finds the snack rappers on the floor, the dishes of food I leave on the floor when snacking late at night.
Seriously not much has changed. I have seen this with so many male friends, sure it is anecdotal evidence, but his observation here may welll be true. Guys are bigger pictgure and don't care about organization as much.
Posted by: JesusJonesSuperstar | March 13, 2006 08:37 PM
"Guys are bigger pictgure and don't care about organization as much."
(Like the guys at GE that invented Six Sigma. No concern for organization or process there. Or the guy that invented the Dewey Decimal System.)
Do you think about these tired stereotypes before you repeat them, or do you just parrot the conventional wisdom of your post-fratboy friends?
Posted by: Thomas | March 14, 2006 10:08 AM
JesusJones,
I have to say, that was the lamest excuse for not being a responsible adult ever. So what exactly is your bigger picture that you can't pick up after yourself?
PS - Guys at Motorola invented Six Sigma, the GE guys just adopted it and ran with it.
Posted by: SleepyCoder | March 14, 2006 01:41 PM
that's precious. i mean, dang, majority rules, i forgot. you know, at one point, just about everyone in this one crazy society believed the earth was flat, too... did that mean they were right?
and i guess your whole big-picture mentality is where snack "rappers" come from - or does your girlfriend/mom actually have to pick the fat boys off your floor?
i just wonder what you must be doing for these women to make it worth their while to clean up after you while juggling their own ambitions... oh, yeah, i forgot how much you go off on your sexual exploits on this board... and i guess women don't really have ambitions anyways, right? except for to clean up after stallions like you, maybe.
Posted by: puckalish | March 14, 2006 05:22 PM
Hahah, I wish I were a man so I could pretend I'm proud of being a totaly slob!
Posted by: Ally Grace | March 21, 2006 02:01 PM
You do the very argument in his book bad by your objections. Indeed, you must be right. He comes across painting a picture that women are prone to invoke more reason and calmly contemplate things.
Perhaps even calmly consider more sides than one? How about reading an article written by a... woman:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=12041&R=EBF3861E
Posted by: Mel | April 10, 2006 12:21 PM
I go to Harvard. I have taken government classes taught by Harvey Mansfield. He is a smart man and he makes compelling arguments. Most of you who have written comments wouldn't understand this because you haven't read what he has written. The arrogance which average people of mediocre intellect display in these posts is amazing -you all make the same trite comments. I suppose this is to be expected when people no longer read but feel they can write. Read his book and then act like a semi-literate group of morons who have opinions.
Posted by: Arthur Finn | April 28, 2006 10:51 AM
I go to Harvard. I have taken government classes taught by Harvey Mansfield. He is a smart man and he makes compelling arguments. Most of you who have written comments wouldn't understand this because you haven't read what he has written. The arrogance which average people of mediocre intellect display in these posts is amazing -you all make the same trite comments. I suppose this is to be expected when people no longer read but feel they can write. Read his book and then act like a semi-literate group of morons who have opinions.
Posted by: Arthur Finn | April 28, 2006 10:52 AM
It's too bad that two valid points in Arthur's comment are caught in the midst of so much sanctimony and academic elitism.
Posted by: Peter | May 16, 2006 10:31 PM
The best resources about online poker are:
online poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/index.html]online poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/index.html]online poker resources [/LINK]
online poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/online-poker.html]online poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/online-poker.html]online poker [/LINK]
poker It really helps! I like it. [URL=http://helen_watson.t35.com/poker.html]poker [/URL] [LINK=http://helen_watson.t35.com/poker.html]poker [/LINK]
Posted by: helen | May 25, 2006 03:01 AM
Just because people think the man is an idiot does not mean they are illiterate.
I bet he is a good scam artist. Able to convice the the simple minded that he knows what he is talking about.
Posted by: randomgirl | June 1, 2006 05:16 PM
Well, Arthur Finn, so the majority of people here are stupid because they see him for the male-chauvenist pig he really is? And what are people doing here if they don't read? Pull your head out of your ass. The weather out here is lovely.
And JesusJonesSuperstar (what a ridiculous name), you seem to be so proud of making your girlfriend pick up after you like you're some sloppy, helpless child. She most likely only does it because it's obvious that you refuse to. For fuck's sake, it pisses me off when men treat women like they are their mothers and maids. And it's pathetic. And shameful. Tell me, do you have to get her to wipe your ass, too? Or do you just go on the floor? If my boyfriend did the things you do, I'd throw him out on his lazy ass. You have alot to learn about respect. Grow up, and stop being a child. If you're lucky, maybe she won't leave your sorry ass.
Posted by: Tokaia
|
January 8, 2007 03:37 PM