Detroit considers banning lap dances

Last week the Detroit city council proposed an amendment to more heavily regulate the “adult entertainment” business. Here are the major highlights: it would ban lap dances, require exotic dancers to stand significantly further away from patrons, and require other workers at clubs to be certified in their positions. This proposed amendment just goes to show you that people can sometimes propose laws that trample on people’s personal freedoms without offering concrete solutions to address the root of the problem.

Don’t get me wrong; I am not giving strip clubs a get-out-of-jail-free card. Strip clubs have their issues and can be sites of exploitation especially during economic times like these. And then there’s the sexism inherent in this discussion. I almost couldn’t finish my breakfast when I endured an hour drive of Coco, Foolish and Mr. Chase in the morning on 97.9′s hip hop radio station. They showcased disgruntled male after disgruntled male complaining about why they should be entitled to offer payment in exchange for groping women. It’s problematic for many of these men to view women as if they are sexual beings and nothing else. And that’s just one of the issues that is getting short shrift in this debate.

The inherent truth is that many of the women in sexually oriented businesses in Detroit are entering these industries because of economic constraints. This is different from folks who enter into sexually oriented professions having chosen exotic dancing from a variety of economic alternatives. But banning lap dances is an incredibly paternalistic way to show respect for women. If lawmakers are really concerned about women in these industries and increasing agency of these women, they should earmark some of the $18 billion in stimulus funds to create initiatives to provide women with real choices for employment.

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34 Comments

  1. Barbaragordon
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    “It’s problematic for many of these men to view women as if they are sexual beings and nothing else.”
    If a man is thinking he has the right to pay to grope women, especially if say, the rules are you arent allowed to touch the dancers. Then I don’t think the man is thinking of the woman as a sexual being. He’s thinking of her as a sexual object.

  2. Mollie
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Well said Rose.
    The proposed bill at hand, though, reminds me of an episode of Reno 911 during which the City of Reno attempted a suspiciously similar bill… hehehe

  3. theology_nerd
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    I agree that something needs to be done to help the women whose desperation has led them into the sex industry, and that we need to provide real employment alternatives. However, I don’t quite understand why banning lap dances is described as “paternalistic”…

  4. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    What civilians and young dancers don’t know is that Lap dances aren’t legal in most states (including Mich) as it is.
    Legal liability shifted from club management to the dancers shoulders causing the change from 3 ft away dances (my time in the industry and it was a blessing!) to 6 inches and then to lap dances and finally to the grinding and groping of todays strip experience.
    In the past, a club could be raided off of one dancer being touched. Vice would take in the manager, the bouncers, doorman, sometimes EVERY one that was working- and fine the club $5,000.
    When clubs were no longer held accountable, bouncers stopped stepping in and protecting dancers from touchy customers. Dancers learned the art of sensual self defense.
    I left the industry soon after as I felt that I was fighting off sexual assault night after night in a club where men constantly talked about what “the last dancer” allowed for the same 20 bucks.
    Clubs are NOT making more money with contact dances. Dancers are NOT making more money with contact dances.
    The point of stripping is the tease, the less you give the more they want- they become entranced and you give them energy, but, you don’t seal the deal-
    keep em coming back for more.
    Dances still cost $20 and now clubs have mandatory 2 for 1s.
    It’s so much worse than before the liability shifted.

  5. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Let me be clear, averaging a grand per night, working when my fragile lungs allowed, leaving plenty of time and money to be a mother and artist, dancing on stage and a soap box 3 ft away -
    was a saving grace in my life.
    My lungs work fine now, and I’m too old to dance anyway, but,
    I couldn’t stand the contact dances. Lap dances surrounded my prudish “old school” dancer self. I was more selective about customers and still made good money due to being experienced enough to find the wealthiest men in the club, but, it was traumatic just being around lap dances.
    Women who came into the industry when after the invention of lap dances don’t know that you can make more giving less.
    It is sad.
    http://i_muse.livejournal.com/

  6. cutekotori
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Being a stripper myself for 6 months of my life for financial reasons..I think in general its a good idea to have more strict laws in strip clubs….. its a nasty business, a VERY thin line between dancing and prostitution.
    When id give a lap dance, grinding on a guy till he came, is that considered prostitution or still just a dance?
    Having the girl father away would help in defining the line between money for sex and money for “entertainment”.

  7. hfs
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    Well said, Rose! I completely agree with you when you say, “this proposed amendment just goes to show you that people can sometimes propose laws that trample on people’s personal freedoms without offering concrete solutions to address the root of the problem.” There are so many posts on Feministing that call for greater policing or government intervention in some aspect of society with no appreciation for the costs of so doing. Your analysis is spot on: it makes much more sense to try and address the root causes of the problem rather than outlaw the symptoms.

  8. lucierohan
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    Lapdances or no lapdances, I don’t think the industry is going to change for the better until dancers can organize to control the inner workings of the strip club. At the place I worked (only for a semester so I don’t have too much experience), the bouncer was also the manager. He was a good guy all around. He pretty much always gave the dancers the benefit of the doubt over the costumers. Sometimes he hit on me, which I guess was inappropriate, but he always told me he didn’t mean to make me feel uncomfortable and that he would stop whenever I told him to. I don’t know that that’s a justification, but I believed he was being genuine.
    But anyway, the point is, despite him being a good guy, he wasn’t exposed to the experiences of the majority of the workers there. And when you have that disconnect between the management and the workers, exploitation is bound to occur. Female dancers should be able to set the terms for their own work. Not the male management, the predominantly male customers, or the predominantly male government.
    P.S. I recognize that there are also male strip clubs but since I don’t know anything about them I’m leaving them out of this for now. Though I think worker supremacy is always a good thing.

  9. Anonymous
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    I don’t know how the majority of women who strip feel about this issue, but in Toronto some yeasr ago, a group of strippers organized to protest lap dancing being allowed in the clubs. They didn’t want the customers touching them but the club owners didn’t want to hire or keep dancers who didn’t go along with the lap dances. So the only way to stop it was to legislate. It didn’t happen. Now all strippers have to agree to prostitution if they want the work and the money. What was really upsetting to the original protesters was they hadn’t signed up for that and ended up with a drastic and very traumatic change in their working conditions. They should have been able to sue for constructive dismissal but I don’t think anyone tried this.

  10. Hara
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    you have obviously not stripped in a club pre-lap dances.
    It isn’t freeing to allow customers the right to touch.
    Strip tease paid better than fondling, grinding or lap dancing and caused less PTSD.

  11. Naked Feminist
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

    Whoa, backup. I’m an exotic dancer, have been for three years. This is a bad idea. If anything, it will accelerate a growth in illegal prostitution. If a girl get the same penalty, we she caught, for providing oral sex (which she would make more money from) and giving a lapdance (which you would probably get about $15 from) it’s going to be a no-brainer which a desperate girl picks. Girls who are ‘clean’ dancers, who don’t break rules, won’t have any choice but to leave the business, leaving prostitutes to comprise the business.
    By the way, I take major offense to the “let’s allocate money for them so hey can get REAL jobs!” It’s a real job, I assure you. The shser physical toll it takes on our bodies from physical strain, mental exhaustion, crazy hours, and so on certainly qualifies stripping for a real job. Not every woman is so desperate that she becomes a stripper. I certainly didn’t, I wanted to see what the big deal was, what the culture of strip clubs was like. It was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, and I never regret it. I’ve met so many good people, dancers and customers, that I would have never met elsewhere. I feel more in control at my job, rather than being exploited for pennies as a cashier, a secretary, or so on as an uneducated college student. I am not required to put up with customer bullshit and can defend myself in a variety of ways, be it verbal or physical instead of smiling when a customer demeans me like any regular job would require.
    Giving lapdances does not always equal being helplessly groped. I have never permitted that, not at any club I’ve ever worked at. It tends to vary by area, by club, by club management what is permitted.

  12. Hara
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    that comment posted before I finished the thought-
    It seems like the women who dance in the clubs now, and have danced in the club in the past, before lap dances (how did those start?) have more to say on the subject as it deals with their income. GOing over theory and shifting the entire paradigm before dealing with the strippers immediate concerns, doesn’t make sense to me. Big picture and little picture work simultaneously, yes, but the little picture, the individuals whose bills are being paid this way, takes priority in my book.

  13. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    I danced in over a dozen clubs in 5 different states over approx 7 years. I watched “lap dances” come in and grinding and groping soon followed.
    It went from 3 ft away to 6 inches away, then just long hair caressing the customer or a leg…very minimal contact
    to full on grinding/dry humping, groping.
    I witnessed that in L.A. and Vegas and it left me with PTSD.
    I made more money with less trauma with the 3 ft rule, but, those rules are ONLY enforced if the Club owners and managers are held responsible and charged a fine-
    When they are liable, the bouncers are employed to step in and stop a guy from touching.
    When I started stripping, the bouncers and the dancers had an almost telepathic communication. I could just glance the way of the bouncer and he would know the customer was about to try something-
    he stepped in to prevent it or boot the guy out of the club (my New Orleans experience). I made a living legally and didn’t have to fend off wandering hands.
    Once the laws changed and bouncers no longer were told by the owners to step in I became one of the few dancers in clubs I worked at (high end clubs all) who didn’t sit on laps, grind or allow touching. I had to be very selective about which customers I chose. Wealthy, older men tend to not want what a prostitute can offer privately, in a public place. They wanted my company, the flirt, the therapy, but, not to have my ass touch their face or crotch. I couldn’t make a dime off the younger guys or the guys who come in for lap dances.
    Back in the day, we made most of our earnings on stage. Everyone tipped and they tipped generously.
    I went from average $400-500 on stage per night to $50-$100 on stage. There was also a time when we were PAID as entertainers, before paying house fees, as independent contractors (which you actually are not by law- see my post on my LJ).
    http://i-muse.livejournal.com/53285.html
    I hope lap dances go away for the sake of the dancers.
    Dancing on stage or a soap box, a foot or 3 ft away is much less work, for the same or more money.
    I just don’t know how easily it can go back…of course customers who rely on getting off with lap dances in clubs will disappear from the scene, but, there is always another generation about to come in and spend their money.

  14. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

    “I have not permitted that”
    vs
    “the club does not permit that”
    the club does not permit, makes your job easier and gives the bouncers a job to do instead. with that in place, you can go back to entertaining instead of the fine art of sensual self defense.
    P.S.
    I retired from stripping 6 or 7 yrs ago. There was so much good from that experience, I am forever grateful to it. I also had to deal with PTSD.

  15. nobody
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    I completely disagree. There’s nothing inherently wrong or sexist about lap dances. There is something sexist about having less male strip clubs than female strip clubs, but the lap dances themselves don’t mean anything.
    A guy who goes to a strip club tends to be a sexist piece of trash, whether or not there are lap dances.

  16. Hrovitnir
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    As usual, banning really is not the answer. Once again the onus will go on dancers, and it’s probably just going to mean that in a majority of clubs women will continue to do lap dances because they need to make money, but with the added joy of fear of a prostitution charge. Excellent.
    And it’s even less likely to work with the market is flooded with new, naive, eager to please girls who haven’t learnt to set their boundaries yet with management who doesn’t give a fuck because the women are contractors, not employees.
    Lap dances do not necessarily = groping. Certainly from reading different women’s experience, some prefer no contact, some light contact, some don’t even mind high contact if it’s easy money.
    The club I tried gave reasonably high contact lap dances, but guys weren’t allowed to grab tits, arse or pussy and it was enforced. I was fairly happy with that.

  17. smiley
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

    Err… why the “…the root of the problem.” What is the problem, actually?
    I cannot see anything in the OP that suggests that there is anything particular about lapdancing.
    OK, so “… many of the women in sexually oriented businesses in Detroit are entering these industries because of economic constraints.” And? Many industries offer employment during economic crises, and no big deal is made about it; the Armed Forces, waitressing, and so on.
    “…provide women with real choices for employment.”
    Isn’t lapdancing a real choice? A choice which seems to be quite lucrative, according to some posts above. And let’s not forget that a choice is just that: you can choose not to take up the opportunity.
    In fact I agree with Rose that banning lapdancing clubs is not the answer (even though I doubt if there is a problem in the first place).

  18. aelphaba
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Condemning the ban on lap dances in Detroit as paternalistic and then saying that funds need to allocated so they can get “real jobs” is actually worse on the mollycoddling scale than the ban is.
    Can we stop pretending that woman who enter the business are so naïve as to not know what awaits them once in? Further more can we stop assuming that these same women also do not have the ways and means to change the working conditions in which they find themselves?
    When we minimize any woman work we minimize all women.

  19. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Have you heard the quote, “Not the last dancer”
    It refers to what “old school” dancers who didn’t touch customers or do lap dances said when confronted by customers demands based on “the last dancer________” (let me do this or that) for the same amount your charging me to just look.
    Having worked in the clubs when I was one of very few who wouldn’t allow contact and also worked in clubs where no one was allowed contact, it was easier to make money when it wasn’t allowed at all.
    I’m a bottom line kind of gal-
    If you aren’t making more money and you are likely to suffer more from the work-
    why on earth would you defend some assholes right to touch you for the same 20 bucks?

  20. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

    The bouncers/ security worked for the club and for us. I paid those bouncers to work as security for me out of my tips.
    Lack of security and spending so much energy defending yourself cuts into your money.
    Can you imagine a celebrity walking around without security and being proud that she didn’t allow people to touch her versus the bouncers protected her from being touched?
    You’re projecting beauty, scantily clad, in high heels, selling your attractiveness (physically, mentally and energetically). You shouldn’t also have to practice stripper kung fu the whole time.

  21. MLF
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    Can someone actually explain to me what “sex-positive” means? I hear this term being thrown around a lot and I really don’t get it… Who is sex-negative? Some religious folk? Sex prudes?
    Does it simply mean you are for sex-workers rights? (if so, I guess I’m also sex-positive) or does it mean that one thinks sex work is a positive experience? (in which case, I guess I’m probably sex-negative).
    Honestly – I think the term sex-positive is a shitty term (and confusing). I don’t know a single person (even among my fellow rad fems) that is against sex – unless it’s forced.

  22. FrumiousB
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

    Sex-positive is the term pro-pornography, pro-sex work people use to describe themselves. People who disagree that porn depicts sex or that payment for sexual stimulation wish the more honest terms of “porn-positive” or “sex-work-positive” would gain greater usage.

  23. FrumiousB
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

    I wonder how much experience the poster has with the lap dance/no lap dance debate. Obviously, dancers have a variety of experiences (as we have seen in the comments on this post), but the overwhelming desire that I hear voiced in my reading about bans is for bans to be enacted. Even when clubs have “no touching” policies in place, the policies are routinely violated. Johns grope the dancers, tear their costumes, attempt digital penetration, and basically get away with it. It’s great that there are places which enforce their policies, and it’s great that some dancers are able to enforce their own personal policy. That’s not the case for all dancers and all clubs. Johns are going to purchase dancers’ attention regardless of what act they are actually purchasing – lap dance or table dance. As long as women’s time and attention is for sale, dancers will be able to make money.
    I certainly don’t see how protecting the right of workers who are not empowered to protect their own rights is paternalistic, unless you are a libertarian. To enable all dancers to set their own personal boundaries would require a radical change in how strip clubs are regarded and managed, taking power from the management and placing it with the dancers, also taking power from the customer and placing it with the dancer. I don’t see that happening at all.
    It’s not just economic constraints that lead women into dancing. For some women it is. For some reason, the opportunity to be sexy and have an audience draws them in. For others, it’s the flexible hours. There are many, many reasons, and making other jobs available isn’t going to make stripping jobs dry up.
    I did not find the analysis in this post to be quite up to the usual standard set by Feministing.

  24. FrumiousB
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    copy edit:
    … that payment for sexual stimulation constitutes sex wish the more honest terms …

  25. FrumiousB
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

    copy edit:
    … For some women, the …

  26. FrumiousB
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    When we confuse women with the work that they do, we minimize all women. Stripper != stripping.

  27. i_muse
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

    Gotta get the bouncers back on board as security for the dancers once again. That wont happen unless the clubs are liable.
    I don’t care if security is a physically intimidating male or female, I just wish it was not on the dancer to defend herself from the position of entertainer.
    One job in the club is enough.
    I don’t know if there is truth to it or not, but, my “big sister” who taught me a lot when I first started dancing in Vegas, told me it was 4 dancers who went to court to change the laws. They were considered prostitutes by the other dancers & kicked out of Crazy Horse Too, for contact with customers during dances. They claimed that as “independent contractors” they should be solely responsible for what they allow with their bodies, not the clubs.
    Sadly, that made it a lot harder to make a living on stage and from 3 or 1ft away.
    Dances cost $20 in 1994. Dances cost $20 or LESS in 2009 and clubs REQUIRE dancers, who pay a house fee, to do 2 for 1 dance specials as well.

  28. Naked Feminist
    Posted September 29, 2009 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    i_muse, perhaps that’s how it was in the early nineties, but that’s not how it is now. Most customers go to strip clubs to get a break from reality, to actually think that the scantily clad, beautiful woman is hanging on your every word. They go to feel special and attractive, even if it’s just smoke and mirrors. A lot go for lapdances because it makes them feel nice, wanted, and special to have a beautiful woman dancing in their lap. And no club I know of in my region permits customers to wantonly gropes dancers. It is akin to prostitution in many areas and two-way contact is verboten. I’m sorry you got PTSD, but if you got it from witnessing groping or whatnot, perhaps stripping wasn’t right for you.
    Strip clubs are different now and while most of them do not permit customers to grope dancers, sometimes you do have to fend off a customer. It’s a part of the job, and a reason why clubs hire bouncers.
    It’s pretty noted in a lot of cities with harsh strip club laws to have a rampant problem with prostitution. I believe Austin has a huge problem with it, and clean dancers won’t even consider a lot of clubs in Austin.

  29. Rose
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Frumious B, thanks for offering your feedback. You are certainly right that I do not have a PhD in this lap dancing debate. But as a Michigan resident who heard many of the testimonies of the 100 workers, most of them women, at the cities clubs who oppose this ban because they believe it will reduce their ability to make money, I believe lap dancing bans and additional restrictive policies in this context is paternalistic. By paternalism, I mean that these policymakers are restricting the freedoms of consenting adults because they wish to act in the best interest of workers at these 33 clubs. This is paternalistic because a significant amount of these workers have articulated that their best interest is first and foremost making money in the state with the highest unemployment rate in the country (something I have blogged here about previously.) I intentionally focused my analysis of the lap dance debate in Michigan because of this. I think your comment would have been valid if this post was meant to encompass not just restrictions in MI but restrictions country-wide. I encourage you to read on about the economic conditions in Michigan as it relates to this debate, because that is the context I am writing from.

  30. Mrs.s
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    You know I was agreeing with the commentary until I saw the first bit of your comment. Please correct me if I’m wrong, and maybe I’m taking what you said out of context..but are you serious? Not everyone who enters the sex industry does so out of desperation. Some people decide to work in the field of sayyyy..education, the same way some woman make a conscious decision to choose sex work as their careers. Stereotype much?

  31. CaseyDancer
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    @ Naked Feminist:
    I regularly communicate with fellow dancers all over the country, Canada and Australia and there’s no question that Austin is ON PAR with most other areas. In the past 2 days alone I’ve spoken with dancers and bouncers from Dallas, NC, Vegas, FL, and Canada who assure me it’s just as bad where they work as it is in Austin, if not worse.
    This quote “Strip clubs are different now and while most of them do not permit customers to grope dancers, sometimes you do have to fend off a customer. It’s a part of the job, and a reason why clubs hire bouncers.”
    …is laughable. MOST DO NOT PERMIT??? In theory only, but in practice, it’s commonplace. Managers have a big financial interest (read, greed) in turning a blind eye PLUS making big (under the table) tips from strippers who do extras as a replacement for learning real, professional, skilled erotic and emotional labor.
    What region do you strip in and have you never had any communication with dancers outside your area? How long have you danced? Are you still dancing? Because I think you need to get out more.
    MOST CLUBS DO PERMIT. ESPECIALLY since the recession and I fend off fingers, tongues and entitlment in 50% of the dances I do in one of the top 3 clubs in Dallas as well as 2 of the top clubs in Austin. I worked in one of the top 3 clubs in Vegas in the mid-90s and there were handjobs and blowjobs happening daily (any dancer who says otherwise is lying her ass off) but back then there were SO many customers and plenty of dancers with good boundaries that we all had choices about who to dance for – not so these days if you hope to earn a living. And not even a lucrative living anymore. The days of making 4 figures in a shift are gone but for the rare occurance, even the best girls struggle to get by now and with ever increasing tipouts and house fees being demanded, the clubs are sucking our blood as badly as the customers demand to suck our nipples.
    There is not one club in the entire state of Texas where more than a very small percentage of dayshift girls are making a decent living and the girls who do are either depending on regular customers or doing extras. If you have boundaries and no extras, you’re all but screwed on dayshift. Nightshift is possibly better, but not by much and overall business (bar sales AND stripper earnings) are down an average of 50%.
    Customers have been trained to expect extras now (these days without even paying extra for it) and with a huge influx of new, inexperienced dancers raised on raunch culture to begin with, fingers and tongues are just part of the job.
    This quote: “Most customers go to strip clubs to get a break from reality, to actually think that the scantily clad, beautiful woman is hanging on your every word. They go to feel special and attractive, even if it’s just smoke and mirrors. A lot go for lapdances because it makes them feel nice, wanted, and special to have a beautiful woman dancing in their lap.” could have been taken from my very lips, but certainly not recently. Seriously, if you’re stil working in a region where contact isn’t allowed, consider yourself very very very lucky and very much in the minority.
    I also assure you, i_muse was an amazing stripper and a credit to the profession. How dare you say it may not have been for her, just because she’s not numb to the violations of entitled customers.
    Anyone truly interested in this topic should read my blog: http://www.MyDancerDiary.com or try ExoticDancerNet.com

  32. CaseyDancer
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    @ aelphaba
    “Can we stop pretending that woman who enter the business are so naïve as to not know what awaits them once in?”
    Um, no. Are you under the impression naïve women don’t exist?
    “Further more can we stop assuming that these same women also do not have the ways and means to change the working conditions in which they find themselves?”
    Again, no. Are you under the impression patriarchy can be overturned by signing a petition? Now who’s being naïve???
    “When we minimize any woman work we minimize all women.”
    Okay, facing reality by illuminating the struggles and lack of resources or opportunities for many if not most women in sex work, is not mnimizing them. However, your attitude of superiority and disdain absolutely does.

  33. CaseyDancer
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    @ aelphaba
    “Can we stop pretending that woman who enter the business are so naïve as to not know what awaits them once in?”
    Um, no. Are you under the impression naïve women don’t exist?
    “Further more can we stop assuming that these same women also do not have the ways and means to change the working conditions in which they find themselves?”
    Again, no. Are you under the impression patriarchy can be overturned by signing a petition? Now who’s being naïve???
    “When we minimize any woman work we minimize all women.”
    Okay, facing reality by illuminating the struggles and lack of resources or opportunities for many if not most women in sex work, is not minimizing them. However, your attitude of superiority and disdain absolutely does.

  34. CaseyDancer
    Posted September 30, 2009 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    @ aelphaba
    “Can we stop pretending that woman who enter the business are so naïve as to not know what awaits them once in?”
    Um, no. Are you under the impression naïve women don’t exist?
    “Further more can we stop assuming that these same women also do not have the ways and means to change the working conditions in which they find themselves?”
    Again, no. Are you under the impression patriarchy can be overturned by signing a petition? Now who’s being naïve???
    “When we minimize any woman work we minimize all women.”
    Okay, facing reality by illuminating the struggles and lack of resources or opportunities for many if not most women in sex work, is not minimizing them. However, your attitude of superiority and disdain absolutely does.

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