What We Missed

Campus Progress has created a new National Wall of Student Debt, to demonstrate the huge debt burden faced by young people today. Go here to sign it, or send it to your friends!
In really sad news, after test results revealed that Caster Semenya is intersex, she has now been put on a suicide watch.
Louder than Words is currently accepting submissions from girls ages 13-19 who are interested in writing a memoir.
The National Women’s Law Center is calling for action on abortion and health care reform, to ensure that women who currently have abortion coverage in their health care plans keep it.
A really sad story of a eighteen women who were trampled to death during a stampede that broke out during the distribution of free flour in Karachi, Pakistan.
Today is Mexican Independence Day, when Mexicans celebrate independence from Spanish rule.
The New York Times has a video about the first gay couple to be featured in their wedding pages.
The much awaited health care reform bill from Senator Baucus was released today. Analyses of parts of the bill are here and here.

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46 Comments

  1. Comrade Kevin
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Some liberals are fighting mad that the proposal does not contain a public option. I, for one, wish that it did. However, whatever gets passed is going to have major reforms, specifically regarding pre-existing conditions and caps on benefits. Both of these would make a major impact on my life, particularly because I’ve dealt with the one year waiting period that goes into effect whenever I shift insurance plans or companies before my illness can be covered or the constant haggling with insurance companies to full cover hospital stays.
    There’s no reason why an ambulance ride from my apartment to the hospital should cost $500 out of pocket. Nor is there any reason why an ER visit should cost $64,000 without insurance.

  2. Alice
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    If all you’re interested in is the ride, then there certainly are cheaper options, such as taxis. A taxi ride from where I am now to the nearest hospital would be about $20.
    However, an ambulance is larger, stocked with a lot of medical equipment, and staffed by skilled medical personnel. It strikes me as entirely reasonable that a staffed ambulance would be at least 25x more expensive to own and operate than a taxi.

  3. dhistory
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    I got married after my freshman year, so my husband paid for my college education. If you don’t get a math based degree, there is no reason to go into debt, you will never recover the expense. If you become a doctor or engineer, accountant, etc. then it is worth it. I feel sorry for the people on the Wall of Debt. I sure hope they got good grades and studied a field that pays well.
    On health care, my concern is not paying people’s premiums for them so they can be insured whether private or public. My concern is creating a bunch of new gov’t agencies, that don’t provide any medical care to anyone, but will nonetheless have to be paid for in order the monitor and document all the medical care people can, should and do receive. Government agencies are expensive. I just read that in 2000, gov’t workers made 66% more than private sector employees, and now they make double. That is pretty expensive paper pushing and regulation.

  4. Alice
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:37 pm | Permalink
  5. Alice
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Opps, didn’t mean that to be a reply.

  6. UnHingedHips
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    “I sure hope they got good grades and studied a field that pays well. ”
    We’ll, I’m 40k in debt for a useless private school BA and am now working my way through nursing school solely in order to get a job that will allow me to pay off the debt for that first degree.
    Going to college severely limited my opportunities and dictates my life choices in a negative way.

  7. Flowers
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    My work flagged that site as “Gambling” and reported my IP to “Big Brother.”
    Just warning future clickers. When I get home I will definitely read the article.

  8. rhowan
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I think Comrade Kevin is saying that the cost of the ambulance ride should be covered by insurance, not that $500 is an unreasonable fee for ambulance services.

  9. hardlycore
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    This strikes me as really cynical. I’m very fortunate in that my parents were able and willing to save money to cover my tuition, but does that make a degree “worthless” for those who didn’t have the same luxury? Should people refuse to seek education, or consign themselves to a course of study they don’t like, because they won’t be able to pay for college up front? If everyone followed this logic, there would be very few social workers, artists, writers, etc. I chose my major (comparative religion) because I am fascinated by it, not because I plan to parlay it into a six-figure job. While it takes a certain amount of financial freedom to be able to make that choice, it’s a shame to make people feel like their interests aren’t worthwhile because they don’t lead to huge salaries.

  10. matttteeeiiii
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

    this is more relevant to the warzone post but commenting is closed there, so your reading it here. looks like we’ll have to have sexual segregation in order for sexual harassment to end : o
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/world/asia/16ladies.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

  11. Alice
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    It has nothing to do with the extent to which different degrees are “worthwhile,” but with the fact that a degree that can make you money is, besides whatever else it may be to you, an investment, whereas a degree which you pursue purely for its own sake is a form of consumption.
    Going into huge amounts of debt can make sense if you expect the returns to be worth the wait, even if your real reasons for doing it don’t involve money. The problem with unprofitable degrees is not that people get them, but with people treating such consumption, noble a form of consumption as it may be, as though it were an investment, and going into far more debt than they would normally be willing to for something that they did not expect to earn a return on.
    So, saying that you should not go into a huge amount of debt for a degree that will not pay for itself is largely the same as saying that you should not go into a huge amount of debt for any other form of consumption.
    Remember also that the cost of college education has less to do with knowing certain things than in having a reputable institution back up your claims to knowing them to potential employers. If you are truly doing something for its own sake rather than to make money, this part should be worthless to you, and you would do better to pursue your interests independently and put the money you would have spent on college towards, well, anything else whatsoever.

  12. nikki#2
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

    College is expensive. I am going into engineering so I have the comfort of knowing that I will be able to easily pay off my student loans once I get a job. I cannot imagine how it would feel to have such a large amount of debt and a degree that wont help pay for it.

  13. englishteacher
    Posted September 16, 2009 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

    I finished my post-bachelor’s certification to be a teacher in May, and relocated to another state to find a job (I’m originally from Michigan – no chance of a full time position there!). In another economy, I would be able to find a full time position with benefits and get hired. Instead, I’ve spent a lot of time just trying to get hired for an hourly position (apparently I wasn’t what Target or Marshall’s or Pizza Hut wanted…). Right now, the degree seems like an enormous waste of time and money. But I know that if/when I am able to get my desired position, then it will be worth it.

  14. davenj
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 12:21 am | Permalink

    Privileged, much?
    “Should people refuse to seek education, or consign themselves to a course of study they don’t like, because they won’t be able to pay for college up front?”
    Welcome to a world where people do just that every day of the week.
    You basically write off the monetary component of college as if it’s some pesky thing. For most people it’s nothing of the sort. We’re discussing something that costs, in some instances, as much as a house. Even on the low end it’s like buying a car every year for four years. That’s really, really expensive. Like, beyond the means of a lot of people.
    So while getting an education is valuable, if someone who doesn’t have the money up front to buy college as a consumer purchase can’t parlay that education into at least breaking even then college isn’t just worthless, it’s actually going to cost them more than they earn.
    Everything you mention is of tangential value compared to the cold, hard facts of paying for college.
    There are a lot of artists, writers, social workers, etc. who struggle to survive. And not all of them have college degrees, either.
    It’s a fallacy of the well-off to:
    a. Act like the only way to get an education is to go to college. I know some very smart people who were/are autodidacts. I also known some very dumb college students. The commoditization of education has turned the lack of a degree into code for not being smart, when the truth is that there’s a broad scale out there, and you don’t need to pay a lot of money to read good books.
    b. Act like college is always a good investment. This usually comes from the perspective of folks who never have to take out loans. Guess what? Loans cost MORE than the straight price of college. You have to pay INTEREST on them.
    The less funds you have to pay for college up-front the more expensive it gets. Government loans help to some extent, but colleges are outstripping this capacity rapidly.
    People can learn a lot in college. People can also learn a lot with a good booklist and a decent internet connection. The difference is the way society values the piece of paper you get from colleges.
    Many college students consume college, not as an investment, but rather a luxury expense that turns an education into four years of summer camp, complete with drinking and general debauchery. Let’s not act like every single cent of tuition and room/board goes toward providing a better education. Part of it goes to the “college experience”, coded language for a consumptive expense with little in the way of educational benefits.
    Or, to put it more succinctly, you’ve got money, but that doesn’t mean everyone should do what you do, and you ought to take the fact that you’ve got money into account when making sweeping recommendations.

  15. hardlycore
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 12:54 am | Permalink

    I didn’t mean to comment on “education” in general, just the previous poster’s comment, which implied that people without “math based degrees” had wasted money going to college and studying something they probably were interested in. I have several friends who took out pretty big loans to attend school (and study liberal arts-y things), and while they certainly complain about the high cost of college, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say they regret attending school or wish they’d majored in something else.

  16. Veronica
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:44 am | Permalink

    True to this. For years this obsession with college got into my head and I thought I was dumb or less of a person for not going, but having tried it and hated it a few times, I must say, I much prefer to read what I want to read. My line of work (aide at a mental health care home) combined with the reading I’ve done and the art I’ve made is, as far as I’m concerned, equivalent to a liberal arts degree.
    I do want to go to school for medicine, which is a big extension of my current job in that I already have the people skills to interact with patients; I just need training in the math and science.
    I’ve tried (and failed) so many times to fit into the normal university life, to try to be like one of the kids who goes when she’s eighteen (I’m 23), just because I thought there was something wrong with me for doing it differently. I could have been a lot happier without the constant shaming of my decision not to go. I may have saved a lot of money by not thinking there was something mortally wrong with me because I didn’t want to go to college right away, and therefore enrolling in and dropping out of universities that were just not right for me.

  17. davenj
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Two points:
    a. That still doesn’t make the degree a non-consumptive expense. It’s nice that your friends took out big loans to do what they wanted to do, but that doesn’t make it an investment, which is what’s implied when saying someone spent money on an education. There’s certainly the practicality and ethical issues, in that spending a ton of money on consumption is rarely a good idea, and creates the ethical quandary of spending money on consumptive education as opposed to investing in your own education, or that of others.
    b. Confirmation bias towards college is huge in this society. Paying college loans is expected. So your friends’ decision gets supported every day in order to propagate class distinction.
    College is a giant confirmation bias. Look at the way it’s structured so that nobody feels like they’re paying for it until after they’re gone. The way schools use meal plans instead of just charging money for food. The concerted effort to take the monetary issue off the table and sweep it under the rug.
    And of course the avoidance of the serious figures that show that a ton of folks who attend college don’t graduate.
    I’m not surprised your friends don’t regret their decision. When society encourages conspicuous consumption, in this case of education, the goal is to alleviate any feelings of regret involved in making an enormous purchase.

  18. matttteeeiiii
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    and most college loans dont charge interest until u graduate

  19. everybodyever
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    From that Semenya blog post:
    “Without context and without care, we, the folks, raped her by violating her personhood.”
    Ugh. Way to minimize, you know, actual rape by comparing it with media attention.

  20. Terrils
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

    If, as it seems, you’re simply saying education (college in this case; there are of course other kinds) is as valuable as the individual feels it is, for its own sake and as a self-improvement tool, regardless of whether it pays for itself monetarily or gets one a big-bucks job, I entirely agree. And if you are saying that, I think the other posters are missing your point.

  21. Veronica
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    They still charge interest, you just don’t have to pay it until you graduate. It accrues nonetheless.

  22. KBZ
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Honestly, my advice to my children, and to anyone considering higher education, is to have a specific purpose for obtaining a particular college degree.
    The truth is, very few people should be spending tens-of-thousands of dollars for vauge self-improvement, “the college experience”, drunken revelry, or simply because they can’t think of anything else to do between the ages of 18 and 24. Anyone without the last name Kennedy or Bush should be thinking a little further ahead.
    My husband is an attorney, and spent 7-years and upwards of $100K on his education. But, he makes pretty good money, and we’ll pay it back eventually. Overall, it was a worthwhile investment. But, he would say that his undergraduate education was NOT worth it. He has an undergrad degree in Political Science, which, according to him, is a virtually worthless degree without law school. In retrospect, he would suggest getting a functional and utilitarian undergraduate education, even if you intend to pursue post-graduate work, just in case law school (or whatever other educational endeavor) doesn’t work out.
    kbz

  23. Alice
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    Nothing you say about non-investment degrees make them any less a form of consumption, and all we’re saying is that it should not be treated as though it were an investment. Most people would agree that consuming on large amounts of debt is a bad idea, as a general thing, but fail to recognize most college degrees as such because of reasons pointed out by other commentors.
    The same sort of thing was one of the many facets of the recent housing bust, in which people rationalized their massive, debt-fueled consumption of housing by treating it as a fool-proof investment.

  24. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    I got into my law school on a large scholarship in part because of my literature degree. Turns out, law schools like English majors. There’s a lot of overlap in the skill sets. I’m not saying people with other degrees don’t have the right skills, just that the skills a Lit major needs to develop to graduate correspond to lawyering more than people think. They often have to write more than those in other majors. They are guided by people who make their living studying how best to phrase a sentence and how to accurately parse them. They’re taught to read between the lines while keeping it to what’s reasonably there. It’s all using language. These are all skills that are vital for lawyering, and yet, Lit and English majors follow only Philosophy as the stereotypical “useless” degree.
    (Weirdly enough, I’ve gotten two jobs, including my 1L summer internship, partially based on my undergraduate thesis on Celtic literature)
    I guess what I’m saying is that it’s not as straight-forward as “pick a useful degree.” If I’d chosen something more “useful” in undergrad, I may not have gotten my scholarship. If that had happened, I wouldn’t have been able to afford law school.

  25. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    I think people are being unfair to college. Getting a reading list and an internet connection is simply not the same thing. I spent an entire year writing a 90 page thesis with dozens and dozens of academic sources that are virtually inaccessible outside of a campus library. It was gone over with a fine-tooth comb by someone very well-respected in the field. My writing improved a hundred-fold because an excellent writer (my advisor) gave me tons of personalized advice. No amount of reading lists give you the ability to entirely divorce yourself from your work. Having an excellent writer point out things you don’t notice is invaluable. No matter how skilled you are at self-teaching, the human mind just doesn’t work that way. I then had to get up in front of a panel of respected people in the field and defend my thesis to them. I had to know it backwards and forwards, and unlike just reading, I came out KNOWING that I know it backwards and forwards. I came out knowing that I can get in front of a panel of experts and say “Hey. I know about this, too, and I have some valid thoughts on the subject.” It was scary at the time, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
    College isn’t just reading and reading and then knowing some stuff at the end. I am certainly not saying that everyone needs college, or that college graduates are in some way smarter then people who didn’t go, just that it really does teach you things that a reading list can’t. If those are skills you want, then college kind of is how you get them.

  26. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    And I’m pretty sure I’m going to end up having this misunderstood, so let me clarify: People who don’t go to college can be just as brilliant and well-read as those who don’t. College is just training and honing. But let’s face it – we value training and honing. You don’t just toss someone a corpse and an anatomy guide and say “Okay, learn surgery.” You don’t show someone a room full of law books and call them a lawyer, or hand them a driving manual and say “Drive.” We teach people, and it benefits them. That does not make college necessary or make graduates somehow “better” than no-college. It does, however, make it a different experience with pros that most people can’t get with self-teaching. Whether or not you want those pros doesn’t speak to your worth as a person or an intellect.
    I will also propose that if you got out of college thinking “Man, I should’ve just read the reading lists,” you went to a bad college.

  27. adag87
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

    I think it’s pretty sad that anyone has to consider higher education a monetary investment. By that I mean that education costs as much as it does in this country that it necessitates “investing” in the first place. Anyone who wants to go to college should be able to without wracking up thousands in debt. I don’t know what the solution is – maybe subsidize education the way it is done in some European countries, or at least make in-state tuition cheaper than it is – but I know that the answer isn’t just telling people to get more useful degrees.

  28. matttteeeiiii
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    not in the one i got. i suppose i cant speak to all college loans tho mine started up the interest when i graduated along with payments.

  29. matttteeeiiii
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    i shouldnt have said most. i know nothing about most.

  30. Alice
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    Education will cost what it costs regardless of how much you subsidize it, and I don’t think the situation will be improved by shifting responsibility for those costs away from those who incur them.
    If you believe otherwise, donate to endowments.

  31. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

    Not necessarily. There is evidence that if we didn’t push sports quite so much, or if every good school didn’t strive to be the best in every single field, college would go down. The huge price leap from the ’70s does not match inflation.

  32. Alice
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    Not necessarily what? Of course if you change what is being done, the costs will change. adag87 was just talking about changing who pays for it.

  33. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    I mean that education will not necessarily cost what it costs now. I assumed that you meant no matter what, education will remain this expensive. I misunderstood.

  34. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    I mean that education will not necessarily cost what it costs now. I thought adag87 was suggesting things besides subsidizing since she said “make in-state tuition cheaper. That implies finding a way to lower costs, not only looking into subsidizing. Because of that, I assumed that you meant no matter what, education will remain this expensive, but I apparently misunderstood you.

  35. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    I meant that education will not necessarily cost what it costs now. I thought adag87 was suggesting things besides subsidizing since she said “make in-state tuition cheaper. That implies finding a way to lower costs, not only looking into subsidizing. Because of that, I assumed that you meant no matter what, education will remain this expensive, but I apparently misunderstood you.

  36. NellieBlyArmy
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Dammit. This was meant to be a reply to Alice.

  37. Alice
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

    I see. I took that statement to mean to increase the subsidy of in-state tuition, because the only thing distinguishing in-state from out of state, and making it as cheap as it is already, is the massive subsidy given to state residents who attend state-owned schools.

  38. Pinkypink
    Posted September 17, 2009 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

    Rape is a very apt word to describe the horrific ordeal Caster Semenya’s being put through, imo.

  39. Brett K
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 1:57 am | Permalink

    I agree. The comments on this post made me think hard about the value of my education (I have a History degree) and this may just be me trying to justify myself after the fact, but I really don’t think there’s any way I could have studied what I wanted to outside of university. Many of the most valuable books that I read have been out of print for decades, if not centuries, and are inaccessible outside of academic libraries. The same goes for academic journals, which were absolutely invaluable both as sources and just as a guide to the academic landscape. Not to mention the immense value of being surrounded by brilliant people who are actually knowledgeable (and interested) in my field, and willing to critically evaluate my work. I do a lot of independent research now, in-between degrees, but it would be nearly impossible if university hadn’t given me the skills, the resources and the background knowledge that it did.
    Which brings me to another point: the reason that these resources (in my case, eighteenth-century newspapers and pamphlets) are so inaccessible, and that it is so difficult to discuss them outside of academia in the first place, is because no one cares about this stuff. In my opinion, if it weren’t for universities and university libraries, these things might disappear completely. And even though four years and thousands of dollars spent studying them may not be a good individual investment, on a societal level it is crucial that people do so. Academia may be useless and self-perpetuating – and it certainly does have an unfortunate class bias, albeit one that many institutions are now working to remedy – but over the long term old information needs to be preserved and new ideas (flawed as they may be) need to be created. Basically, economically profitable =/= useful.
    Um, I meant for this to be a general reply, not an essay on the merits of academia. It’s 2AM, and I’ve been missing student life a lot lately.

  40. Adele
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 2:55 am | Permalink

    It depends on the kind of loan you get. Private loans and unsubsidized federal Stafford loans accrue interest, as do Perkins loans (another type of federal loan). Subsidized federal Stafford loans do not begin to accrue interest until you enter repayment. Private loans may or may not have payments deferred until after departure from education. All Stafford loans can be deferred while you are still in school, even if they are accruing interest, until you enter repayment six months after leaving school. Perkins loans can also be deferred while still in school, even though they are accruing interest, until entering repayment nine months after departing school.

  41. Suzann
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 3:26 am | Permalink

    I think education is a right – and it should be free to everyone. The current system favors family wealth, because what 19 or 20 year old has the money to pay for college up front?

  42. KBZ
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Point taken. There is certainly something to be said for playing to your strengths. I am not sure you could not have gotten the same expertise with an English minor and a more practical major. I would guess that you received a scholarship because of your performance within your major, not because of the major itself.
    My husband believes his political science degree prepared him reasonably well for law school. But, he would likely argue that going to school for 4-years to exclusively prepare to go to law school for 3-years may be a misuse of the initial 4-years.
    He does not believe he was any more prepared after a bachelor’s in political science than he would have been with a bachelor’s in Chemistry or Engineering and a poli sci minor. He is a talented writer. But, his degree didn’t make him a talented writer, and he believes he could’ve benefitted from a bachelor’s degree in another discipline, rather than 1 degree in “pre-law” and another in law (which makes the “pre-law” degree a little superfluous).
    Having degrees in two separate disciplines is a strength, and carries some security of knowing there is a fallback discipline. In addition, a separate degree in Criminal Justice or Engineering can lead to a completely different path for a lawyer than will a “pre-law” degree — such as patent law or criminal prosecution (depending on the prior degree).
    kbz

  43. KBZ
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Unfortunately, practicality matters. People (students and non-students alike) must consider how they spend their time and their money, and whether their temporal and monetary investment will make a realizable improvement in their life or the lives of others.
    Higher education costs money. And, whether the student, parents, loan company, college or government is paying the bill — it still costs money, and the expenditure still must be practically justifiable.
    If students aren’t considering the practical benefit of their degrees when they are wasting their own money, how frugal can we expect them to be when they’re wasting someone else’s money? Taxpayers are unlikely to want to foot the bill for 20-somethings to “find themselves” for four-to-six years, and emerge with a drinking habit and no discernable marketable skills.
    Unfortunately, this is exactly what is happening in many cases today — except the student is emerging with no marketable skills, and a huge student loan debt. Why would someone else want to take the burden of the cost of that particular endeavor?
    kbz

  44. adag87
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    “Unfortunately, practicality matters.” And I think that’s basically my argument here – that it is unfortunate that one of the only things we see as “practical” in the U.S. is getting a job that will pay well and to work, work, work.
    I’m most certainly not advocating binge drinking throughout college or going to college just to attain some sort of social status. I think what I’m more lamenting about is ideology – I just read in one of my textbooks that back in the 1960′s, “developing a meaningful life philosophy” was actually a reason many students went to college. Now it’s “So I can make money and live well” (I’m paraphrasing, but you get the idea). Now, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with making money, but I don’t think it has to be the sole reason for getting a college degree.
    We have many expenditures that I am not happy about – unnecessary wars, for example, which account for quite a large portion of our country’s deficit – I don’t see why my tax dollars have to go to exorbitant military spending and can’t go toward subsidizing education or health care.
    My point: I think people need to get their priorities straight. And I believe education and health care should be considered human rights.

  45. adag87
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Well, though I am in favor of subsidizing higher ed, I wasn’t necessarily saying that that had to be the only solution for making in-state tuition cheaper. If there are ways to lower the cost of education while keeping the quality relatively the same, then I think those options are also worth exploring. The bottom line is that higher ed should be accessible to more people.

  46. Rosasharn
    Posted September 18, 2009 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    Not everyone needs to go to an incredibly expensive 4 year college. I work full-time and support myself whie paying for the pre-reqs at community college. Next semester I’ll transfer to a state university and graduate with under $10,000 in debt, which is not at all unreasonable for a degree.

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